Topic: Danny Guthrie(£1.5m to Bolton)

[redmark]

Can't see him playing for us, but certainly a decent premier league player. Would hope for £2m+, but either way....bank it.

For a young squad player, whose wages will be peanuts? False economy. Give him a place in the 22-25, let him make the odd appearance in a crisis or CC games and see how how deals with it. He may prove he can add value to the squad in the long term, or he may increase his transfer value for a year or two later (as Warnock did). He's not going to lower it much. The reason United have cheap, useful squad players like Fletcher, O'Shea, Brown etc is because they don't flog them at the earliest opportunity. Consequently they can spend more of their money on new players, rather than wages and fees for squad fillers. The £1.5m-£2m we can get for Guthrie now would barely - or not at all - pay the wages of a veteran free signing (of a Zenden, Voronin type) that offers little more.

[mjgill85]

Is it him. Looks like Anderson?

I would imagine Anderson is doing all his pre-season with Forest

[Wewonit5times]

Looks like he is back at Melwood ...

Where else would he be? He's our player.

[Joe Rogans Chin]

Think he might stand more of a chance now Sammy Lee is back at Liverpool.

[Strawberry Fields]

Think he might stand more of a chance now Sammy Lee is back at Liverpool.

Actually when Samy Lee was at Bolton he gave Guthrie a lot less chances than Megson gave him but I hope you're right.

[lamonti]

And I like the way some people prefer to bend over and take anything other club gives us regardless of what the player's worth.

He's had two games with us?  Don't know if that 100% accurate but he's had more than that in Bolton's team last season and deffo did contribute to them staying up.  That's why they're desperate to sign him.

Home grown player in this climate and proven to adapt to their team....doesn't come cheap.

So player registrations and contracts count for FUCK ALL now a days then?

Wow didn't realise we're a charity.

You're missing my point - if he's worth nothing to us as a player because we aren't willing to play him in our first team, then our bargaining position is significantly weakened because you get the impression that Bolton, much as they'd like him, don't really need him and they can probably find someone else who can do a similar role.

That said maybe they've just splurged all their wage on Fabrice Muamba and Jonas Elmander and are trying to cheap us out of it?

Can Danny Guthrie really do a job for us in the first few games if we're missing Masch and Lucas? Really? He doesn't play either of their positions as far as I can recall.

[nocturnalvin]

3m plus incentives based on appearances.

[Strawberry Fields]

You're missing my point - if he's worth nothing to us as a player because we aren't willing to play him in our first team, then our bargaining position is significantly weakened because you get the impression that Bolton, much as they'd like him, don't really need him and they can probably find someone else who can do a similar role.

And they have. Bolton got Muamba from Birmingham instead.
I hope it's becuase we said to Bolton we want to keep him and not becuase they didn't want him enough.

[dmn]

Actually when Samy Lee was at Bolton he gave Guthrie a lot less chances than Megson gave him but I hope you're right.

He broke into the team (which took a while) under Sammy - Megson decided to keep him starting games.

[hassinator]

newcastle or bolton - where's it going to be?

i vote newcastle with penant in exchange for milner.

[lawrie]

I hope we keep him until the Olympics are finished

[RedTorres]

I liked the lad and been impressed with his Bolton performances. He is no Stevie-G but lad can cut in Premiership. If Alonso get sold and Barry doesn't come, I think we can do with monster, Lucas and Danny with Plesis, spearing helping us in cup games.

[The Bill Hicks Appreciation Society]

Still find it weird that a regular starter and arguably one of the first on the team sheet for Bolton isn't good enough to sit on our bench as a good rotation option.

[JoeTwerp]

who do you think can help the LEAGUE campaign more in 08/09   Lucas or Guthrie?

I vote Guthrie.   Worth keeping him.

[The Bill Hicks Appreciation Society]

who do you think can help the LEAGUE campaign more in 08/09   Lucas or Guthrie?

I vote Guthrie.   Worth keeping him.

Keep both. I'm happy with Mascherano, Alonso, Lucas, Guthrie with Plessis in reserve. I think Gerrard is being moulded into more of a second striker these days.

[jrewing]

I'd also keep Guthrie. So long as his contract isn't running down - £1.5m is about as low as his value will get in the next couple of years.

I'm sure he'd come in useful somewhere along the line. I can't stand the idea of selling a decent squad player who's come through our system so was relatively cheap, being sold so MON feels vindicated.

[JoeTwerp]

Keep both. I'm happy with Mascherano, Alonso, Lucas, Guthrie with Plessis in reserve. I think Gerrard is being moulded into more of a second striker these days.

are you anticipating Barry being played wide left?  do you not fancy us getting Keane?  Do you think that we actually aren't THAT cash strapped? Surely somebody must be sold or loaned out of the three: Alonso, Lucas, Guthrie. If we buy Keane, you would think that he would have to make it into our regular XI right? then where does that leave Gerrard? unless you say play him on the right, the log jam in the centre of midfield gets even more crowded

[Brick Tamland]

Still find it weird that a regular starter and arguably one of the first on the team sheet for Bolton isn't good enough to sit on our bench as a good rotation option.

Is 50% of the league games regular though? I'd argue back that people at Bolton wouldn't have him as one of the first on the team sheet. I think his performances have been encouraging more than spectacular, but I also think that people are getting a little carried away with him because he has had some good exposure and is a Liverpool player.

[abhred]

who do you think can help the LEAGUE campaign more in 08/09   Lucas or Guthrie?

I vote Guthrie.   Worth keeping him.

Haha. Lucas is in a different class to Guthrie.

Makes no sense in keeping him, if we can make some money off him. Plessis deserves a chance ahead of him, and Plessis is more natural back up for Masch. Our center mid is already loaded.

[JoeTwerp]

Haha. Lucas is in a different class to Guthrie.

Makes no sense in keeping him, if we can make some money off him. Plessis deserves a chance ahead of him, and Plessis is more natural back up for Masch. Our center mid is already loaded.

I keep hearing that Lucas is in a different class, and he certainly came with the reputation but where and when have you seen in on the field in the premiership or Europe?

Despite not getting a chance for the first two months, once he got it he took it and had 28 league appearances that is more than half and pretty regular. Plus he was playing with Bolton players.  And he was on the pitch when they beat United in the league and when they drew away against Bayern Munich

Lucas best moment of the campaign last year was against a non-league side. He went missing in a lot of games and had the ball taken off him easily while never looking too "Brazilian."  Maybe Lucas will one day show the world all this class that he has, but for the league for this season I would rather go with Guthrie.

[dmn]

Lucas is in a different class. His passing game is way ahead of Guthrie. And he was growing into the PL last season. You could see he made progress in adapting to the tempo and physical play, and he got more confident in going forward.

Still think we should keep Guthrie unless we get offers in the 5M region. He's a useful player, still developing, very versatile and homegrown.

[soberphobia]

I don't see how the mancs can expect to get £5m for Frazier Campbell from Hull (who's never played outside the championship, and we only manage £1.5m for Guthrie who's been one of Bolton's best players (in the PL)

Chances are they dont expect to get 5 mill or they dont really want to sell him. We on the other hand are obviously looking to sell and we havent exactly been beaten down in the rush for Guthrie or so it would seem from the outside but we only speculate...

[The Bill Hicks Appreciation Society]

I keep hearing that Lucas is in a different class, and he certainly came with the reputation but where and when have you seen in on the field in the Premier League or Europe?

I'd agree with the league but in europe he's been great, especially against Inter.

My point about Guthrie is that he's obviously valued by Bolton, there is no doubt he'd be a good squad player here; with the limited time he's played for the first team he has done very well... he's English (shouldn't be a factor in valuation but it seems to be for every other fucker so why not us?) I'd rather we kept him as good back up than sell him on the cheap. It just sends out the wrong message to everyone imho. And who says Plessis is a better prospect? He dominated Arsenal who aren't exactly blessed with a physically strong central midfield, Silva aside. No doubt he's a very good prospect leading the reserves to the title confirms that but we need to see both players in the medium to long term to assess who's the better player.

Stevie G's time as a central midfielder is over as far as I can see, whether we get Barry in or not. Do I want keen? not particularly, if it was a choice between Stevie and Keane then give me Stevie in the hole any day (i'd prefer Benayoun in the hole over Keane for that matter). If it was someone world class striker being brought in then again Stevie being moved to the right would be preferable than centre mid, he's given more freedom. Stevie's midfield general reputation was established when the players around him made him have to produce superman like displays, where he'd cover every blade of grass. Nowadays he doesn't have to because the team surrounding him is infinitely more comfortable on the ball and I don't think Stevie has the discipline for a central midfielder long term. Don't forget before Rafa came Liverpool had more success statistically when Gerrard wasn't playing than when he was.

[Koparoo]

3m plus incentives based on appearances.

As an aside - why don't English clubs go for the shared ownership of players beloved by Serie A and La Liga teams?? It frees up cash for the (part-) selling club and gives the part-buying club first option - albeit at a price to be agreed later... could it not work in the BPL?

I suppose the local version is the cash plus incentives with maybe a sell-on bonus - although this is more common with small clubs selling their "gems"...

It just really seems a waste that one of the few local players that we've nurtured through our Academy to be Premiership standard is flogged off at the age of 20.

Surely he is only going to improve from here?? (or does that logic only apply to Brazilian or Dutch players??)


Interestingly the Carson loan deal that we negotiated with Aston Villa last season (decent loan fee plus agreed sell price at end of loan) seems more "continental" in structure than "English"

May be Rafa's influence on our transfer policy? (Just seems too "thoughtful" for Parry to have come up with??)

[RedTorres]

I keep hearing that Lucas is in a different class, and he certainly came with the reputation but where and when have you seen in on the field in the Premier League or Europe?

Despite not getting a chance for the first two months, once he got it he took it and had 28 league appearances that is more than half and pretty regular. Plus he was playing with Bolton players.  And he was on the pitch when they beat United in the league and when they drew away against Bayern Munich

Lucas best moment of the campaign last year was against a non-league side. He went missing in a lot of games and had the ball taken off him easily while never looking too "Brazilian."  Maybe Lucas will one day show the world all this class that he has, but for the league for this season I would rather go with Guthrie.

I'll suggest if you can just watch his cameo against Spurs on last day of last campain. In those 15 minutes, I have seen him making tackles, passing ball to our other midfielders and when the ball in near opposition aread, he ghosting into spurs box. He did this on 4-5 occasion in the 15 minutes he got on field. His movement and the way he gets into opposition box without opposition players noticing it is just priceless. I have not seen Alonso, Monster, guthrie making similar movement. Stevies does it more often but not that effortlessly. Only player I remember doing that is Ballack. He is closest thing to box to box midfielder I have seen at LFC in recent times and I think he is the main reason behind Alonsi's departure rather than Barry. The guy will be class in few years and I expect him to do much better this year.

[thredworm]

To be honest I would rather loan him out again for a season. He's only young and if he can prove that he can have another good season at a different premiership club then I think we could keep him on.

£1.5m for him is a ridiculously low sum and hardly worth selling him for, especially if we see him have a great year again somewhere else.

Also, to all the people saying Lucas is a different class to Guthrie, I just don't see where you're getting that from. For the £8m we paid for Lucas I expected a lot more from him. He's been disappointing, no matter which way you tart it up.

[Jocko]

Bid from Newcastle accepted

[dnkw]

Source?

[digger barnes 87]

Source?

Scott Carson heads for Liverpool exit

Jul 11 2008 EXCLUSIVE by Tony Barrett, Liverpool Echo

SCOTT CARSON is set to depart Anfield as Rafa Benitez attempts to raise the funds he needs to make an offer for top target Robbie Keane.

The England international keeper is likely to follow Danny Guthrie through the exit door after Liverpool accepted an offer from Kevin Keegan’s Newcastle for the midfielder, who spent last season on loan at Bolton.

Guthrie will now hold talks with Keegan and if personal terms can be agreed the deal will give the 21-year-old the first team football he craves but was unable to secure at Anfield.

Liverpool have two offers on the table from rival Premiership clubs for Carson, who is keen to quit the Reds after spending last season on loan at Aston Villa, and Benitez is happy to do business.

New £3m signing Diego Cavalieri will provide back- up to Pepe Reina in the coming season, making Carson surplus to requirements.

Carson joined Liverpool from Leeds for £750,000 in January 2005 after being earmarked as a potential England keeper of the future.

He has since gone on to win international honours for his country but has found his progress at Anfield thwarted by the presence of Reina, who has developed into one of Europe’s most highly rated keepers.

Villa paid a fee in the region of £2m to loan Carson last season, but Martin O’Neill has not followed up his initial interest in making the deal permanent and the 22-year-old will now move elsewhere.

Without having a substantial transfer kitty at his disposal, Benitez knows he must sell a number of fringe players if he is to be able to come up with the kind of offer which would tempt Spurs to do business for Keane.

Spurs boss Juande Ramos is not looking to sell his captain, who is a hero to the White Hart Lane fans, but with Keane looking to make a move to the club he supported as a boy he may have no option but to do a deal if Benitez makes a sizeable offer.

Benitez, though, is not willing to offer the £20m Ramos is believed to be holding out for and has other targets in mind should Keane’s price tag prove prohibitive.

The Reds boss is looking for a traditional “number seven” to provide a link between his midfield and front man Fernando Torres and believes Keane has the game intelligence to fill such a role.

“Keane is clearly a player that has game intelligence,” said Benitez. “We're looking for players with the right quality and I think we'll find some in the next few days, although not necessarily the names that everybody knows.”

Peter Crouch, who partnered Torres on occasion last season, will today complete his £11m move to Portsmouth.

Meanwhile, Liverpool’s reserve team ranks have been supplemented by the signing of another youngster from abroad.

Vincent Lucas Weijl, a 17-year-old forward who came through the academy at AZ Alkmaar, has signed a three year contract.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-f...00252-21325245/ 
   

[RedTorres]

To be honest I would rather loan him out again for a season. He's only young and if he can prove that he can have another good season at a different Premier League club then I think we could keep him on.

£1.5m for him is a ridiculously low sum and hardly worth selling him for, especially if we see him have a great year again somewhere else.

Also, to all the people saying Lucas is a different class to Guthrie, I just don't see where you're getting that from. For the £8m we paid for Lucas I expected a lot more from him. He's been disappointing, no matter which way you tart it up.

I think we paid 6 million for him and he did very well in his first season considering he came from a different country and have to adopt to different style of play. Even likes of Tevez, monster took some time adopt. Give the kid a chance.

Having said that I am really impressed with guthrie. he can do a good job in midfield. I am not sure if plesis is better than him. We will have to wait and see (Guthrie had done very well at Bolton and he is the one who made that Speed departure. He was that good). One thing is clear this shows how much our youth setup has developed. We have some fantastic youngster on our hand who are doing very well in EPL like Guthrie, Insua, Plesis and I am sure they will be soon joined by likes of Anderson, Hammill, Pacheco, Nemeth etc and still we will have some more promising youngsters in reserve setup (Eccelstone, Ammoo, Lauri dalla Valle, Adam Pepper). Watch our for Gary makay steven in reserve next season. The guy has pace and can run at defenders with ball at his feet.

[The Bill Hicks Appreciation Society]

Also, to all the people saying Lucas is a different class to Guthrie, I just don't see where you're getting that from. For the £8m we paid for Lucas I expected a lot more from him. He's been disappointing, no matter which way you tart it up.

It was £6mil I believe (€8mil) and it's his first season, he was only 20. When he arrived he was 5th choice after Masch, Gerrard, Alonso and Sissoko so even having won the Bolo de Ouro I can't say my expectations on his first season where that great.

[thredworm]

Not saying that Lucas shouldn't be given a chance, nor am I saying that he won't be a good player. I'm saying that I can't see how anyone can possibly say "he's different class" when he's done next to nothing in something like 36 games for us.

[Koparoo]

Bid from Newcastle accepted

What chance that it's part of a deal for Milner??

[thredworm]

What chance that it's part of a deal for Milner??

If it's Carson and Guthrie for Milner (no cash) then I wouldn't be too disappointed. But if we're going to give them Guthrie and say £6-7m for Milner then I'll be gutted.

[Koparoo]

If it's Carson and Guthrie for Milner (no cash) then I wouldn't be too disappointed. But if we're going to give them Guthrie and say £6-7m for Milner then I'll be gutted.

Probably unlikely to be Carson (a keeper is not a high priority for them?) - more likely Pennant ??

[main-stand-molby]

Not saying that Lucas shouldn't be given a chance, nor am I saying that he won't be a good player. I'm saying that I can't see how anyone can possibly say "he's different class" when he's done next to nothing in something like 36 games for us.

He's done the simple things very well.  May not have been noticed by all, but noticed by the coaching staff.

Sometimes loose on the ball, but that didnt stop him from offering himself, always taking up positions to work the triangles.  Some games he would have a 5-10 minute spell were nothing went for him, but he's only a young kid in terms of premiership experience.  Was impressed with the obvious potential there.

Guthrie reminds me of Danny Murphy.  Nice on the ball, but just below the level that we need.  Thats not to say he wont reach it, so i hope we get a sell on clause or by back in his sale.

[thredworm]

Sometimes loose on the ball, but that didnt stop him from offering himself, always taking up positions to work the triangles.  Some games he would have a 5-10 minute spell were nothing went for him, but he's only a young kid in terms of Premier League experience.  Was impressed with the obvious potential there.

Again, the exact same thing could be said for Guthrie without exception.

If anyone can tell me the difference between what Guthrie did last season for Bolton and what Lucas did for us then I'd love to hear it. I'm not saying that Lucas hasn't got potential, just this ridiculous statement that he's a different class when there isn't any proof of that whatsoever.

[b_joseph]

Again, the exact same thing could be said for Guthrie without exception.

If anyone can tell me the difference between what Guthrie did last season for Bolton and what Lucas did for us then I'd love to hear it. I'm not saying that Lucas hasn't got potential, just this ridiculous statement that he's a different class when there isn't any proof of that whatsoever.

Lucas' track record is far brighter than Guthrie's.

Plus, Guthrie is more of a water carrier and Lucas has shown flashes of being able to spot killer passes, along with a eye for goal when arriving into the box late.

[Czar]

For a young squad player, whose wages will be peanuts? False economy. Give him a place in the 22-25, let him make the odd appearance in a crisis or CC games and see how how deals with it. He may prove he can add value to the squad in the long term, or he may increase his transfer value for a year or two later (as Warnock did). He's not going to lower it much. The reason United have cheap, useful squad players like Fletcher, O'Shea, Brown etc is because they don't flog them at the earliest opportunity. Consequently they can spend more of their money on new players, rather than wages and fees for squad fillers. The £1.5m-£2m we can get for Guthrie now would barely - or not at all - pay the wages of a veteran free signing (of a Zenden, Voronin type) that offers little more.

I agree completely with what you mentioned plus the player has earned his chance after his performances for Bolton last year and with Lucas and Mascherano going to the olympics i am sure he would be a good cover or maybe come on a sub so I think that we should keep him at least until the winter break

[watyeonaboot]

If it's Carson and Guthrie for Milner (no cash) then I wouldn't be too disappointed. But if we're going to give them Guthrie and say £6-7m for Milner then I'll be gutted.

I'm annoyed we're not trying to put Carson and Guthrie in a package for Downing rather than Milner. I don't think he's going to offer much more than Pennant does.