Topic: Educating the Passionate but Uneducated

[slimbo]

With this week being the anniversary of Hillsborough, it was an opportunity for me to learn more about what happened that day and the subsequent hurt and animosity that came as a result.

I, like many others watched the events of that day on the news and was horrified by what I saw, but living in another country could never really understand it's impact, until this week. Many of the posts and survivors accounts really brought it into some perspective.

Without wanting to take away from the magnitude of this week and what it means, it got me thinking about other aspects of the mighty Liverpool Football Club and the strong emotions attached them. I thought "well I've been educated on Hillsborough, why not the other areas I know about but don't really understand".

For example:

1) We hate Everton

To me this is self explanatory. It is a local rivalry with supporters crossing each others path every day. There are strong bragging rights associated with it.

2) We hate Manchester United. I also hate Manchester United, but why more than anyone else. Is it because of their success in the Premier League over a long period or are there other reasons (than Neville)

I have become a hater of Chelsea. I think it's because they tried to buy the premiership, because of Mourhinio and his arrogant antics and our recent history in the Champions League.

I also am starting to hate Arsenal. I think it stemmed from the brawling in a match a few years ago when they carried on like a bunch of girls. I think it was against the Mancs. Gallas has only intensified those feelings along with his petty whinging manager Wenger. I actually found myself sniggering quietly when Gallas gave away the penalty last week and taking some satisfaction from a Manc win.

I know this was wrong of me because the Mancs are our worst enemies, right?

But why? Why so much more than Chelsea and Arsenal? I seem to hate them all equally.

It would be great for those who live in the culture to put the facts straight and help those of us who can only dream of being able to go to Anfield each week in the light!

Any other cultural lessons would also be appreciated.

YNWA

Slimbo 

[mightykopite8]

3) We hate other 17 teams in the league
4) There's only 2 best teams in this country, Liverpool Senior Team and Liverpool Reserve
5) We hate Mancs because they are Mancs and they will always be c*nts.

[Rotation]

3) We hate other 17 teams in the league
4) There's only 2 best teams in this country, Liverpool Senior Team and Liverpool Reserve
5) We hate Mancs because they are Mancs and they will always be c*nts.

only explanation needed

[minusone]

See a previous post of mine for the Manc rivalry bit.

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=216975.msg4149088#msg4149088

[Redshadow]

I think why i hate Chelsea has a lot to do because of Moanrinho. 
I mean, I'm glad that they've won the last two because it stopped Manc from winning more just as I hope they would do it again this year (that would be sweet since it means that Moanrinho is no better than Grant: average managers). Right now, i kind of not really care about them, just like the way I feel about West Newcastle or other clubs except hoping that they will win the title and of course get out of our way in CL

I hate Arsenal because what Wenger said about our winning of CL in 2005. He really came as bitter, maybe he knows he would not be able do it in this life.

I hate Manc because they are Manc.

[slimbo]

Thanks minusone.

Was there a particular incident of violence or situation that saw things escalate or has it just been something that has grown over decades from the rivalry of two top clubs?

[SallyCinnamon]

Thanks minusone.

Was there a particular incident of violence or situation that saw things escalate or has it just been something that has grown over decades from the rivalry of two top clubs?

It goes alot deeper than football....

[Red Heaven]

Everton are hated because of town rivalry and its always good to get one over a blue
Mancs are hated because of their arrogant approach to everything football related or otherwise, if Derby spent half as much as Manure does on buying players I'm pretty sure they would be a top 4 team.
Chelsea are hated mostly due to the fact they have made ever player in the game overpriced thanks to their reckless spending but mostly due to that whinging puppet Moanrinho.
I myself don't mind the Arses but i cannot stand Asrene Whinger and his excuses for everything that doesn't go Arsenals way.

I know it seem like the only love lost is amongst the top 4 but that is only natural as these teams are the greatest threat to Liverpool winning the trophies that are rightfully ours.

Outside of England is a whole different story altogether. Italy as a whole pisses me off from the way they play to their overly cocky attitudes in particular Inter for cheating us out of what would have most certainly been our very first Champions league trophy and if we won big ears in 65 for the first time instead of 77 who knows what that success would have done for the club

[slimbo]

So we hate the Mancs the most because they are our biggest threat?

[Cloggs]

I saw a show the other day about football rivalries and it featured Benfica and Porto (I think...at least Benfica and someone) and us and the mancs.

The funny thing was, which was news to me, that a lot of former players said that the rivalry between us and the mancs used to be a lot friendlier. Mainly because Shanks and Busby were great friends apparently.

Some of the players who played under Shanks recalled that and also said that the animosity started gradually and probably stemmed from the fact that Liverpool supporters felt that Man U was more or less "the glamour club" and the media darlings. Even when we were winning everything left, right and centre. Keep in mind, these were Liverpool legends who were saying this, not Man U players so it was not a matter of bias.

Apparently this glamour club tag and the supporter behaviour of Manc supporters that went along with it, got on the nerves of the "working class hero" type Liverpool supporters and the rivalry got more grim.

Anyway, that's the explanation I got from the show.

Personally I have come to envy Man U more than I hate them. Ferguson has managed to rebuild a top class team even after he lost his golden generation in not much time and that is a feat to be respected imo. Having said that, I envy their recent success but I am convinced that our day is coming under Benitez. He will, sooner rather than later, put a team out that will win the title and break Man U's hold on the league.

Anyway, as a team and as a well run business, I have nothing against Man U (except for Ronaldo, Gareth and Rio who are w@nkers) but their supporters I despise more than Ronaldo's mother for giving birth to the crybaby piece of..

[minusone]

I just think that Mancs are a shower of twats.
Hate the team, the fans, the manager... they all piss me off by what they say and do.

[slimbo]

Thanks clogs, very informative.

So is Manchester consider to be above working class? (hey, I have no idea?)

Personally I have often based my hatred for a team on their players. You know how some you just hate.

For example: I don't mind some of the Arsenal players but can't stand Gallas or Lehman.

In Chelsea I dislike Terry, Lampard, Ballack,

Man U however it's Rooney, Ferdinand, Neville, Ronaldo. I actually don't mind Mr Ferguson.

Other than what Clogs has said though there seems to be no rational explanation for the Mancs intense rivalry above Chelsea or Arsenal.

[LUCASzade]

My own opinion on the Manc hatred is slightly different.....I believe its a Town/City thing first and foremost, the football is a convenient way of portraying the hatred

I say this as we have never really been rivals in footballing terms in the way of challenging for titles, when we were the best team in England throughout the 70's/80's, Utd were piss poor, likewise through Utd's dominant period of the 90's....we were never in contention either.

I hate Mancs because of the way they dress, the way they speak, Coronation Street, Terry Christian, etc

[Degs]

Manc hating started with the canal and escalated.

[Redshadow]

Thanks clogs, very informative.

I actually don't mind Mr Ferguson.

?? The man famous for saying to knock us off our F***ing perch? Who love to influence refree like no other has ever done and may never will (got to be the reason why Bennet was overreactive)? Nah, Hates him passionately

[lachesis]

My own opinion on the Manc hatred is slightly different.....I believe its a Town/City thing first and foremost, the football is a convenient way of portraying the hatred

Agree, it's wider than a football issue. Football just opened the face of manchester to more people. The main reasons between most rivalries are political, socio-economic and religious.

As for the rest of the clubs you mention, as soon as Chelsea dissapear from the top of the table as well as Arsenal and United, you will have different rivals ot hate, but I'll still be there hoping Everton get beat every game and slowly descend into lower leagues via relegation until they're a non league entity.