Topic: Defending Rafa....

[The G in Gerrard]

Apart from the fact that Villa are on a similar amount of points to us with an inferior squad? I'm sure you'll point to be 'pressure' of being at a big club but do you think Rafa thinks about the club being in crisis when he's about to name his teamsheet or make a substitution?

I'm sorry but that's utter crap, that's suggesting that one player moving to another club and you would expect the exact same performance!

Had MON been in the same situation as Rafa has there is no saying how he would have performed

[i_wun_bite]

Apart from the fact that Villa are on a similar amount of points to us with an inferior squad? I'm sure you'll point to be 'pressure' of being at a big club but do you think Rafa thinks about the club being in crisis when he's about to name his teamsheet or make a substitution?

Pressure can kill! Look at what happened to Sam Bighead! He couldn't even handle the pressure at a medium sized club! I'm not too sure O'Neil can do it at Liverpool!

[Monkey Red]

I am willing to give Rafa all the time he needs, his recent signings are very promising, we´ve got youngsters coming through the ranks, and we´re going to finish at least 4th at the end of this season, I don´t know where the problem is.
If I were the Chairman of the club and Rafa asked me for a 10 year contract, I would give it to him, because I know that we are heading for greatness under him.

Now slate me at your leisure!

[buzzing]

I still want rafa to be the man that brings us No 19 very soon.

However he needs to realise, working hard and running around is not better than passing and creating chances.

After each game, he says he cannot fault the players as they worked hard.....wtf rafa!!!

We are missing chances as the players are not good enough. He said the other day, if we are talking about relying on one player then there is something very wrong. Sorry Rafa, but this does seem to be the case. We need to sort this shite asap.

[Eeyore]

There's no evidence to suggest that at all FFS.... managing Villa, Celtic or Leicester (not meaning to disrespect those clubs) is completely different to Liverpool and how he would do.... 

So how come O'Neill has done a worse job at Celtic Than Strachan

Or do you want Strachan as well

[The G in Gerrard]

So how come O'Neill has done a worse job at Celtic Than Strachan

Or do you want Strachan as well

Think you misunderstood what I was trying to say, my point was managing any of them clubs would be different to managing us. Just because he is having success with Villa and they are on a similar points tally to us DOES NOT MEAN he would do a similar job at Liverpool.

[Eeyore]

Sorry mate it wasn't you I meant

It's just the O'neill crap really pisses me off

His teams play the worst Football I,ve ever seen

Cast your mind back to when they came to anfield last month

Havent and waterlooville had more of a go

[The G in Gerrard]

Sorry mate it wasn't you I meant

Ok... I'll delete the anger I had typed out

[Wingman]

I am willing to give Rafa all the time he needs, his recent signings are very promising, we´ve got youngsters coming through the ranks, and we´re going to finish at least 4th at the end of this season, I don´t know where the problem is.
If I were the Chairman of the club and Rafa asked me for a 10 year contract, I would give it to him, because I know that we are heading for greatness under him.

Now slate me at your leisure!

I have just as much of a problem about statements like this as I do with the "Rafa out!" ones

[muzzy54]

I am willing to give Rafa all the time he needs, his recent signings are very promising, we´ve got youngsters coming through the ranks, and we´re going to finish at least 4th at the end of this season, I don´t know where the problem is.
If I were the Chairman of the club and Rafa asked me for a 10 year contract, I would give it to him, because I know that we are heading for greatness under him.

Now slate me at your leisure!

No slating required.  Your post is 100% spot on, mate.

[wige]

Ferguson did not take UTD backwards before winning it. This is the most often used misconception on here. He's first 3 seasons he did no worse and no better than what the previous manager did. Fourth season he won the FA cup, fifth season he won the cup winners cup, sixth season he got them second in the league and won the league cup. He then won the league in the seventh season. He spent the first 3 years restructuring the club, changing the culture and sorting the youth set up. Rafa maybe doing that now himself, only time will tell. 

I meant in terms of league position. pretty sure in his fourth or fifth season there was a 14th place finish?

[martinjmmac5]

I'M FINALLY PREPARED TO SAY IT ON THIS FORUM    "HE'S GOT TO GO"   He is a fuckin clown ffs, anybody in the world can see that making stupid little substitutions isnt ideal eg. Babel -> Kewell when playing against a potential banana skin team that is barnsley in a match that is poised at 1-1 with barnsley lookin the stronger team at times, oh not to mention Babel was the only player who really looked threatening.

I am sure that anybody on this forum with a basic insight into the game of football could do what that he is doing at the minute, people can stand in the Kop with banners singing about G&H but they are no excuse for the absolute drivvel that is Rafa Benitez and his team of fuckin idiots who basically don't give a shit and haven't got a clue. It's an absolute embarassment, Sons of Shankly, Shankly would be turning in his fuckin grave after watching this passionless team play under Rafa Benitez's rotation policy, Blind devotion for rafael benitez is not the way forward

 

[Andy @ Allerton!]

I'M FINALLY PREPARED TO SAY IT ON THIS FORUM    "HE'S GOT TO GO"   He is a fuckin clown ffs, anybody in the world can see that making stupid little substitutions isnt ideal eg. Babel -> Kewell when playing against a potential banana skin team that is barnsley in a match that is poised at 1-1 with barnsley lookin the stronger team at times, oh not to mention Babel was the only player who really looked threatening.

I am sure that anybody on this forum with a basic insight into the game of football could do what that he is doing at the minute, people can stand in the Kop with banners singing about G&H but they are no excuse for the absolute drivvel that is Rafa Benitez and his team of fuckin idiots who basically don't give a shit and haven't got a clue. It's an absolute embarassment, Sons of Shankly, Shankly would be turning in his fuckin grave after watching this passionless team play under Rafa Benitez's rotation policy, Blind devotion for rafael benitez is not the way forward

 

Ha ha ha. Loony.

[Trousers]

You know in another thread which has now been deleted one fella was saying that this'll be Rafa's second season without a trophy.

In another thread there is a love in with Wenger, and people believe that his 4 years without a trophy would be tolerated here if he'd won the league.

I'm not so sure.

[reds9]

It's almost like the Houllier scenario all over again.

All I can say is that I support Liverpool and not blindly support a manager who can't bring us forward. Under Rafa, we are more likely to win another Champions League title than being the best team in English league.

Ask yourself, is Rafa a good motivator ? Can he motivate and get the best out of his current team ? Not from what I've seen. We need someone who can instill some fighting spirit and determination into the team.

[martinjmmac5]

It's almost like the Houllier scenario all over again.

All I can say is that I support Liverpool and not blindly support a manager who can't bring us forward. Under Rafa, we are more likely to win another Champions League title than being the best team in English league.

Ask yourself, is Rafa a good motivator ? Can he motivate and get the best out of his current team ? Not from what I've seen. We need someone who can instill some fighting spirit and determination into the team.

Agreed i am not saying that you specifically are blindly supporting a manager i mean there is a ever lessening amount of fans that are, eg. they don't care about RAFA,......

[Eeyore]

Liverpool FC is a fucking Circus at the moment

I think in the circumstances Rafa is doing a decent job

Acting with class and dignity

Remember the last game in front of the Kop we lost

Remember The hillsborough Protest game against Arsenal 2 nil down in half an hour

The scum have not lost to Man City at home for years Munich 58 ceremony they lose

Bob Paisley fucking hated any presentations on the pitch because it distracted the players
and killed the atmosphere

None of the above are anything like what Rafa has to put up with at every game

So lets get behind Rafa and give him a fucking chance before the gutter press get him

[The Bill Hicks Appreciation Society]

we are more likely to win another Champions League title than being the best team in English league.

oh fucking woe is me, only another shitty little European Cup. I know we've got five of them but you seriously can't use that as an argument against him, can you?

[abhred]

I am shocked at the blind support for Rafa. I understand if you still think Rafa is the man for the job, but Rafa, deserves a LOT of criticism for where we have landed up this season.  So, what if we go out to Inter? What will you say then....

Please think a bit objectively

Btw, I am willing to give Rafa one more chance in the CL....

[therockbox]

I am shocked at the blind support for Rafa. I understand if you still think Rafa is the man for the job, but Rafa, deserves a LOT of criticism for where we have landed up this season.  So, what if we go out to Inter? What will you say then....

And if we beat Inter and go through, what will you say then?

[abhred]

I would say, first test passed Rafa!

Anyways, I would be over the moon if we go through CL, but that still doesn't mean Rafa should be ignored for the shambles that is our league form.

[The Bill Hicks Appreciation Society]

I am shocked at the blind support for Rafa. I understand if you still think Rafa is the man for the job, but Rafa, deserves a LOT of criticism for where we have landed up this season.  So, what if we go out to Inter? What will you say then....

Please think a bit objectively

Btw, I am willing to give Rafa one more chance in the CL....

Me I'm willing to give him a whole season without off the pitch turmoil and injuries to vital players before I actually begin to judge his performance as a manager. The last 3 years he's had success, this is the first year he may not achieve anything. I don't actually worry that he's not won the league yet or put in a challenge because apart from this season he's not had a squad capable of it, this season we had a squad capable of putting in a challenge but losing Agger along with the sword of damocles hovering above Rafa's head has made this season a nightmare.

If we go out against Inter I'll be gutted but I wont judge Rafa on this season at all. Give him the players he wants and the funds he needs to get them and then i'll make my mind up whether he has what it takes to win the league in this country.

Seriously take Vidic out the Mancs team and see where they'd be.

[abhred]

Let me also add, I think we all underestimated Paco's role in all this. Paco leaving has left a HUGE impact on Rafa, and I think Rafa needs another assistant.

Btw, he DID have money in the summer. I still don't understand why we bought Yossi for 5m and Babel for 11m, when it was clear we needed at least ONE wide player. Sure, he couldn't buy everyone he wanted, but he could have still bought someone with a more finished end product than Babel.

Though, if Rafa is given whatever money he wants, then I am 100% sure he will get the players that we need. He knows the players, it's just about getting the money.

[Lfc Rules]

Me I'm willing to give him a whole season without off the pitch turmoil and injuries to vital players before I actually begin to judge his performance as a manager. The last 3 years he's had success, this is the first year he may not achieve anything. I don't actually worry that he's not won the league yet or put in a challenge because apart from this season he's not had a squad capable of it, this season we had a squad capable of putting in a challenge but losing Agger along with the sword of damocles hovering above Rafa's head has made this season a nightmare.

If we go out against Inter I'll be gutted but I wont judge Rafa on this season at all. Give him the players he wants and the funds he needs to get them and then i'll make my mind up whether he has what it takes to win the league in this country.

Agree completely, was saying the same thing to my son earlier today.

[Monkey Red]

I don't entirely absolve Rafa of blame for the current form, but who can put his hand up and say he would perform at there best under the sort of pressure he's under at the moment.

Would people still want him out if we actually won the CL this season? Hand on heart, who would dismiss winning this years CL and call for his sacking because HE! failed to win the league!

Reading through some of the posts I nearly get the impression some posters are even dismissing our fine win in Istanbul and getting on his back for not supplying the league!

I can be blamed for blind faith and loyalty to Rafa, but some people on here have a blind hate, an unjustified blind hate at that!

[PETERBEARDSLEY]

We have to ask ourselves What do we want? If we want to continue with the success in the cup competions and the champions league - stick with Rafa. If we want a serious shot a the premier league we need an alternative. Rafa's European philosophy doesn't work in the premier league, you can't send a weakened team away to portsmouth, even if you have had a good start. Rafa will not deliver the premier league with his methods.
But is there a serious alternative out there? JM wouldn't get the same funds he had at Chelsea. Would he be welcome?

Who else is there?
I would take anybody who played at least a consistant spine allowing team understanding to develop. Let players know that if you perform you will be rewarded with a starting place next game. All teams rotate a little in the modern game but we take the piss,  players don't know if they are coming or going.

Personally I feel if we aren't bothered about seriously challenging for the Premier League we might as well pack in. I would risk losing Rafa (thank him for his success) in the summer and trying an alternative even if it is a gamble.

But firstly the off field bollocks as got to be sorted otherwise we could  even clone Bob Paisleys DNA  for a super manager and still not challenge.
I therefore think there is no right or wrong answer in eithier sacking or keeping Rafa it just depends on what you want and if you think the next field is greener ?

[andywilko]

Well said Monkey Red.  In all the misguided frustration with our manager, I can't believe this disrespect of the European Cup.  1 win, 1 final, and who do you see beating us this year?  See off the favourites on Tuesday and it's on again.  This "premiership is the priority."  That's bollocks dreamed up by Sky and all the others with their noses to the trough and a vested interest in hyping their overrated dog and pony show.  In ten years time we'll be playing Barca, Real and the Rossoneri every other week in the European league, leaving Everton, Reading, Bolton and all them to battle it out in the premiership championship.  It's going to happen and that's why, in desperation, they are trying this 39th game nonsense.  Yes, no. 19 would be nice, but no. 6 means more. 

[NickoH]

So how come O'Neill has done a worse job at Celtic Than Strachan

How do work that out ?

O'Neill - 3 leagues, 3 Scottish cups, 1 league cup, 1 UEFA Cup runners-up

Strachan - 2 leagues, 1 Scottish cups, 1 league cup

[fowlermagic]

I doubt if its blind hate although a few here just log on to lambast the club anyway they can.

I am sure things have been difficult for Rafa since the whole saga started last Oct / Nov but at the same time many of the on field challenges he has faced since then has tripped him up. Its really strange as he & the boys jumped to the cause to reach the knockout stages of the CL but on the domestic fronts its gone tits up. Night & day form. He has very little control in regards to the owner's decisions but in the office where he has 100%, ie the safe haven of match days he has looked very uncomfortable.

If the team stumbles out of the CL and the side just plods along in the league with obvious signs they dont care anymore then Rafas time is more than likely up. He is there to motivate the team to believe in his causes, the methods he lives for and if they dont care then shame on them but you can sack a whole squad, can you?

[dba]

Well I'm another one then. I'm going to save this quote and in a few months when you've changed your tune, you're going to get to see it again. Here's a question though, you vicious little shit... what would it take for you to lose your blinkered confidence in the man?

I don't know about him, but if you were to slit your wrists tonight then I might re-consider my position on Rafa. Any chance of you forcing me in to a re-consideration?

[dba]

We have to ask ourselves What do we want? If we want to continue with the success in the cup competions and the champions league - stick with Rafa. If we want a serious shot a the premier league we need an alternative. Rafa's European philosophy doesn't work in the premier league, you can't send a weakened team away to portsmouth, even if you have had a good start. Rafa will not deliver the premier league with his methods.
But is there a serious alternative out there? JM wouldn't get the same funds he had at Chelsea. Would he be welcome?

Who else is there?
I would take anybody who played at least a consistant spine allowing team understanding to develop. Let players know that if you perform you will be rewarded with a starting place next game. All teams rotate a little in the modern game but we take the piss,  players don't know if they are coming or going.

Personally I feel if we aren't bothered about seriously challenging for the Premier League we might as well pack in. I would risk losing Rafa (thank him for his success) in the summer and trying an alternative even if it is a gamble.

But firstly the off field bollocks as got to be sorted otherwise we could  even clone Bob Paisleys DNA  for a super manager and still not challenge.
I therefore think there is no right or wrong answer in eithier sacking or keeping Rafa it just depends on what you want and if you think the next field is greener ?

In other words, you back Randolph and Mortimer's attempt to recruit Klinsmann.

[walshys_mullet]

In other words, you back Randolph and Mortimer's attempt to recruit Klinsmann.

Can anyone here a squeek in here?

[PETERBEARDSLEY]

In other words, you back Randolph and Mortimer's attempt to recruit Klinsmann.

Where do you get that from? please explain . With Rafa there are arguments for keeping him and arguments for sacking him in the summer. With the greedy yanks there is no argument bye bye, How you can conclude that anyone backed the klinsman approach - imparticular with regards to my my last post where my only reference to the Americans was 'the off field bollocks needs to be sorted ' god only knows. Nowt as strange as folk I guess.

[bigbear]

I like Rafa but I've felt for a few weeks that the players have lost their fath in him and no longer buy into what he's doing.

The Paco situation has left a huge chasm that Rafa has not replaced. It's the human element that Rafa seems to under-value in everything that's gone missing.

I think he's already dead in the water. Only a very good European Cup run can save him and even then it may not be enough.

[Rotation]

Rafa deserves criticism, as does Wegner, as does Ferguson. However, if he is fired right now, as some of you are calling for, the season is officially over. If a new manager comes in we will no doubt be out of Europe in this round or the next. If a new manager comes in we will not qualify for champions league next season. Why? Because even world class managers need time to adjust. The amount of turmoil that would occur after firing Rafa would be unprecedented. How is a new manager supposed to garner the support of players and fans amidst all that. Of course we could get lucky and all of the negative reaction could inspire the club to new heights, but i highly doubt that. So please, reserve your judgement till the end of the season. Because i garuntee that if we win the Champions League, only a few HIGHLY delusional fans will be calling for Rafa's head at that point. I'm not going to instill my blind faith in Rafa, but I will admit that I am an ardent Benitez supporter, and that support will not waver. Now my opinion might change if we get trounced by inter and do not qualify for Europe at all next year. As of now tho In RAFA We Trust. To conclude this statement I'd just like to issue a plea to all of you. Just remember who we are. Think about that if you are going to the game  Tuesday. The players are down, and I'm sure Rafa is gutted as well. So remember that we are Liverpool Football Club. Use that to inspire the players and make Tuesday a great night in our clubs history.

[Phil2005]

I want to see Rafa evolving in the job.  I don't see much evidence of this as yet, he appears to retain the same principals and ethos as he did when he first started.

I'd like him to stay and win us the Premier League but if we start next season with the same rotation policies (I wish there was another way of saying that)  then I cannot personally see that happening.

Just climbing into my suit of armour now....

Yeah but if you have a squad full of quality players, guess rotation wouldn't be such a major issue.  The problem starts when you rotate quality (Torres) for crap (Kuy) to playetc.!   The only players fit to wear the Liverpool shirt:
Reina
Agger
Carra
Gerrard
Mash
Torres
Lucas
Babel (still has a lot to prove)
Benayoun (jury still out)


That's a total of 8 players out of a squad of approx 30!!!  Get rid of the rest and bring in quality!!!

[firing squad]

In other words, you back Randolph and Mortimer's attempt to recruit Klinsmann.

what's wrong with old Jurg,he won(as a manager) everything there is in club football!!

[Strawberry Fields]

Sorry mate it wasn't you I meant

It's just the O'neill crap really pisses me off

His teams play the worst Football I,ve ever seen

Cast your mind back to when they came to anfield last month

Havent and waterlooville had more of a go

You can't be serious!
Have you watched Villa's game at the Bridge?
They scored 4 goals! That's 4 goals more than us under Rafa in 4 years!
And you can't score 4 goals (and lead 0-2 by the way) unless you're attacking.

OK, they had a bad game at Anfield but despite that they didn't lose thanks to some
good effective attacking play. They actually should've won 1-3 but one player was too selfish to realize it.

I guess the fact that Ashley Young leads the PL's assists table has nothing with good attacking play.

Martin O'neill is doing so well I would love to see him replace Rafa.
He took a club at relegation risk and made it worthy of a European spot.
He also managed to do so with no roatation policy and with less talented squad.
I admire him.

[suttonoot]

been looking through almost every thread on here,and at this moment in time I wonder how many true fans of LFC

are actually on here .Liverpool fans are known for supporting their club no matter what is happening on or off the

pitch.

What we have at the moment is we are having a hard time,yes off field isnt helping but more so since it went into the

public domain,we as Liverpool fans should know better,if you just happened to jump on the bandwagon either learn

the Liverpool way or find another club that accepts public slanging matches.

I maybe an oot but I live and die by what LFC and the true fans have always done and that is get right  behind

the team.if you want to boo then piss off.

 STOP MAKING US A LAUGHING STOCK.

and discuss LFC in a positive manner,because that is what YNWA is all about

[Hightown Phil]

How do work that out ?

O'Neill - 3 leagues, 3 Scottish cups, 1 league cup, 1 UEFA Cup runners-up

Strachan - 2 leagues, 1 Scottish cups, 1 league cup

O'Neill had the advantage of Rangers being shit though, Strachan doesn't.