Author Topic: Why do Reds fans want DIC? (Mark May)  (Read 3588 times)

Offline litliper

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Why do Reds fans want DIC? (Mark May)
« on: January 25, 2008, 01:44:09 PM »
Why do Reds fans want DIC?
by Mark May, 25 January 2008
 
"With American duo George Gillett and Tom Hicks finally securing the refinancing of Liverpool Football Club, Reds fans are understandably dismayed that their club has fallen into the hands of a bunch of money men who appear to have no real love for the club and its proud history.

Of course, this is all different to when the duo sailed onto Merseyside in March 2007 amid much fan-fare, promising to make The Reds a European powerhouse again, not to mention capturing the elusive Premier League title their fans crave so much.

However, following the revelations that the club went behind the back of manager Rafael Benitez to seek out Jurgen Klinsmann as the new manager – an insurance policy according to Mr Hicks – and the refinancing of the club, Liverpool fans are more than wary now of the motives of the American billionaires.

 In fact, a recent survey carried out by the Liverpool Supporters' network showed that 76% of 2,000 fans questioned said they would "seriously consider reducing their financial commitment to the club" if the current owners stayed in charge.

This is despite a considerable outlay by the pair to fund the capture of record signing Fernando Torres, investment in Liverpool's Academy, not to metion the costs involved in the plans to build a new stadium in Stanley Park.

Reds fans though now appear to be pandering to the feet of the Arab investment company Dubai International Capital (DIC) to save them from the evil reign of terror of Gillette and Hicks.

The company is an investment arm of Dubai Holding, which is owned by Dubai Crown Prince and United Arab Emirates Prime Minister Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum.

Sheikh Mohammed, whose family is internationally renowned for its running of the Godolphin horse racing stables, and is the world's fifth richest man, with an estimated personal wealth of $14 billion.

But why is it that Liverpool fans would welcome this company with open arms? Are there no lessons to be learned from the euphoria that greeted ‘the Yanks?’

DIC have a history of speculation throughout the world as they look to reach their mandate of $10 billion investment in global companies. The Dubai-based group can name Sony, Daimler Chrysler, Mauser and a host of other big corporations as recent investments where they hold a stake.

In March 200,6 they snapped up a variety of assets in Great Britain as they looked to increase their property portfolio in the country, purchasing Tussaud's Group - the theme park operator - for £800m. Tussaud’s group was subsequently sold in March 2007 to Merlin Entertainments for £1.03bn plus a 20% stake in the combined company, a handy profit of £200m in less than a year.

 In August of 2006 they picked up Travel Lodge - the hotel group - for £675m. DIC were reported to be delighted to have added the company to their collection, with Sameer Al Ansari, Dubai International Capital's chief executive declaring: "It is a strong brand with growing potential.” Surely the words “strong brand” and “growing potential” are pure business parlance; the antithesis of the genuine football fan.

In fact, one of the apparent reasons former Liverpool chairman David Moores refused to sell the club to DIC last year, instead opting for the American option, was that DIC saw the club as merely a business asset, without regard to the fans.

DIC are well known for their ruthless streak and the Liverpool board were afraid they were not looking out for the best interests of the club.

Why is it then that Liverpool fans believe that their beloved club would be any different to any other investment the canny Arabs have made since the company was established in October 2004?

A banker with links to Dubai Holdings told The Daily Telegraph last year: "These guys are not after trophy assets. They buy and sell businesses for pure commercial reasons. They have proper investment objectives."

Of course with football being football, ethical considerations do not even get a mention! In a city that has faced many hardships in the past, particularly in its treatment of workers, it seems these considerations do not apply to potential owner.

While Manchester City’s Thaksin Shinawatra and Chelsea’s Roman Abramovich have what one might describe as chequered histories, it does not stop football fans from foaming at the mouth at the thought of a successful football team, regardless the trail of the money used to finance the side.

Dubai has up to 250,000 foreign labourers, which it treats less than tolerably, with many of whom living in conditions described by Human Rights Watch as being "less than human."

National Public Radio (NPR) – the privately and publicly funded non-profit membership media organization - reports that workers "typically live eight to a room, sending home a portion of their salary to their families, whom they don't see for years at a time." The BBC has reported that "local newspapers often carry stories of construction workers allegedly not being paid for months on end. “They are not allowed to move jobs and if they leave the country to go home they will almost certainly lose the money they say they are owed.”

But then what do football fans care of struggling immigrants in the Middle East? It appears for the moment at least that this investment firm will not be getting its hands of Liverpool Football Club. But should that time come, whose to know if one old adage will not ring true: out of the frying pan…"

Interesting read....especially the human rights part (not that a Texas buisnessman is any better).
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Offline Garstonite

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Re: Why do Reds fans want DIC? (Mark May)
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2008, 01:46:37 PM »
Shit article. DIC come and the slate is wiped clean again. They'll have to win over the fans just like G&H's did and if they don't portray themselves as having the best interests of the club at heart, they'll get the same treatment G&H have done. IF.

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Re: Why do Reds fans want DIC? (Mark May)
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2008, 01:47:46 PM »
Similar article on the Guardian blog. Anyone would think there is a PR battle going on for "hearts and minds" ::)

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/01/25/why_liverpool_fans_are_wrong_t.html

Why Liverpool fans are wrong to suck up to DIC

DIC is part of one of the world's most undemocratic regimes - does the Kop really want that on its conscience?
James Montague
January 25, 2008 11:05 AM

As Liverpool stuttered to an unconvincing draw with Aston Villa on Monday night, their fans held banners proclaiming 'Yanks Out, Dubai In', sang songs attacking Tom Hicks and George Gillett, and all-but-begged Dubai International Capital to rescue the club's soul. To no avail: Hicks and Gillett are about to secure a £350m loan to refinance their takeover, and the prospect of DIC taking over at Anfield now seems remote. To most Liverpool fans, this week's developments are a disaster. But perhaps they should be seen as a blessing. Because while DIC might be more wealthy than Hicks and Gillett, they carry a lot more baggage too.

DIC is the investment arm of Dubai Holding, a wholly government-owned company that has interests in everything from logistics to island building. And by government-owned, we mean almost solely owned by Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid al Maktoum, the absolute ruler of Dubai, vice-president of the UAE and one of the richest men in the world. Which is the problem. The ethical probity of who buys your football club has been brought in to sharp focus by Thaksin Shinawatra's capture of Manchester City. And when you start to strip away at Dubai's gleaming façade and phenomenal economic growth, one fact glares out: if DIC bought Liverpool, the club would effectively be owned by a dictator. A benign dictator, but a dictator nonetheless.

I'll come clean up front. I have a special affection for Dubai, having lived there for 2½ years, writing for Time Out magazine. And a good time it was too. The sun shone, wages were tax-free, life was good. But soon it became clear that the protestations that Dubai was a liberal, free enclave in the Middle East weren't all that they were cracked up to be. Articles were regularly censored or pulled so that they didn't upset the Sheikh. "You can move around the edges," one editor told me. "But you cannot question Sheikh Mohammad's vision for Dubai".

One piece on Dubai World's purchase of P&O - another Sheikh Mo funded initiative that caused a political storm in the US - almost got me the sack. But that's the problem when you live under a system where one man, ultimately, has absolute power and can take your business off you at a moment's notice: everyone walks on eggs shells to avoid antagonising him.

In fact the UAE is one of the most undemocratic countries in the world, in the same bracket as Cuba and North Korea. Dubai makes up one of seven Emirates ruled by their own royal families. Limited elections were held recently but they were for the largely meaningless Federal National Council and only covered 1% of the 800,000 strong national population. The last index of democracy by the Economist placed the UAE 150th out of 167, two places below that paragon of democratic virtues, Zimbabwe.

Still, for the lack of democracy, you have the Dubai economic miracle to point to. Sheikh Mohammed must take enormous credit for transforming a sleepy little pearling port into one of the richest patches of land on the planet in a few decades. The problem is that Dubai's mega-structures and glitzy, eye-catching projects are built on the backs of an army of grossly exploited migrant workers. Allegations of non-payment of wages, passport confiscations, physical abuse, non-existent healthcare coverage, awful pay and appalling health and safety are rife among the UAE's half-a-million construction workers.

I saw the conditions first hand in the summer of 2006. In a camp on the outskirts of Dubai, a few minutes' drive from the gleaming opulence of the Burj Al Arab hotel, construction workers building the Dubai Mall (the largest and most expensive mall in the world) at the Burj Dubai site (the tallest and most expensive building in the world), sat 10, 15, 20 to a room. Most had come from the Punjab and earned less than £75 a month for back-breaking work in up to 50-degree heat, six days a week. Raw sewage leaked from overhead pipes into the filthy communal bathroom and kitchen. One Indian man, with tears in his eyes, told me he was suicidal because he couldn't return home. He'd taken out a loan against his family's land back home to pay for his visa, as most of these men had done. If he went home, his family would be homeless. The employers knew this, he said, and drove down wages accordingly.

Conditions had got so bad that riots began to break out on the site and Human Rights Watch published a scathing report on labour abuse in the Emirate. "One of the world's largest construction booms is feeding off of workers in Dubai, but they're treated as less than human," said Sarah Leah Whitson, Middle East and North African director at HRW. "It's no surprise that some workers have started rioting in protest. What's surprising is that the government of the UAE is doing nothing to solve the problem."

A draft labour law was introduced last year but according to HRW it is just a drop in the ocean and key areas, like the right to unionise, have been ignored. Violators of labour laws are rarely punished in any case due to insufficient monitoring, although the negative publicity might now be getting through to the very top. "Sheikh Mohammed is embarrassed by the criticism that the labour issues have drawn," Nicholas Labuschagne, an executive at Dubai Holding, told the US magazine Architectural Record. "We're hoping we can show some very significant progress within the next six months."

But by far the most disturbing story emerged at the beginning of last year. Sheikh Mohammed and his brother, along with others, were served with a class action lawsuit in Miami for their part in the alleged abuse of underage child camel jockeys. (The case was dismissed on the technical ground that the US courts did not have the jurisdiction to try it). The Sheikh is well known in horse racing circles. His Godolphin stables in Dubai are world famous and he hosts the Dubai World Cup, the world's richest horse race every year. But his penchant for camel racing is less well known. According to the Ansar Burney Trust, a charity that brought the issue to the world's attention, boys as young as four were kidnapped in their thousands from Bangladesh, Pakistan and Sudan and forced to ride in camel races. The lighter the jockeys, the better. So the boys were systematically starved and beaten. Others, it is alleged, were raped or beaten to death and buried in a shallow unmarked grave in the desert.

Camel racing in the UAE is huge business, with the top camels changing hands for millions of dollars, but the revelations of the boys' conditions forced some action. Child jockeys were banned and replaced with robots. But according to the Ansar Burney Trust, thousands of young boys are still unaccounted for and unborn children are smuggled into the UAE and Qatar to breed the next generation of jockeys.

You can poke holes in anyone's character given a long enough stick. But the vociferous calls from the Anfield Kop for a Dubai-led rescue mission smack more of desperation than a desire to reconnect with the club's core values. Hicks and Gillett may have made some stupid mistakes, but do they really compare that badly to an owner tainted by controversy and who apparently has little interest in football, only in furthering the cause of Brand Dubai? Sometimes, it's better the devil you know.

Offline a partridge in seat_5c

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Re: Why do Reds fans want DIC? (Mark May)
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2008, 01:48:00 PM »
stability

end of thread

Offline kopindian

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Re: Why do Reds fans want DIC? (Mark May)
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2008, 01:49:42 PM »
They cannot do possibly any worse than the current ones.
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Re: Why do Reds fans want DIC? (Mark May)
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2008, 01:49:42 PM »
also read this on the guardian site. I don't think DIC are the answer and never did.

The only answer is for the supporters to own the club Barca style (strong elected leadership). I posted as such when we were in negotiations to sell last year and nobody was listening. Got some lazy feedback that the club would then be run by committee and so run poorly. We need to get rid of private ownership and go for the Barca model. It's the only way forward...it'll never happen though and so we can either buy into the franchise or forget about the Liverpool way and go off and do something else with our lives. I will be choosing the latter option.


"As Liverpool stuttered to an unconvincing draw with Aston Villa on Monday night, their fans held banners proclaiming 'Yanks Out, Dubai In', sang songs attacking Tom Hicks and George Gillett, and all-but-begged Dubai International Capital to rescue the club's soul. To no avail: Hicks and Gillett are about to secure a £350m loan to refinance their takeover, and the prospect of DIC taking over at Anfield now seems remote. To most Liverpool fans, this week's developments are a disaster. But perhaps they should be seen as a blessing. Because while DIC might be more wealthy than Hicks and Gillett, they carry a lot more baggage too.
DIC is the investment arm of Dubai Holding, a wholly government-owned company that has interests in everything from logistics to island building. And by government-owned, we mean almost solely owned by Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid al Maktoum, the absolute ruler of Dubai, vice-president of the UAE and one of the richest men in the world. Which is the problem. The ethical probity of who buys your football club has been brought in to sharp focus by Thaksin Shinawatra's capture of Manchester City. And when you start to strip away at Dubai's gleaming façade and phenomenal economic growth, one fact glares out: if DIC bought Liverpool, the club would effectively be owned by a dictator. A benign dictator, but a dictator nonetheless.
I'll come clean up front. I have a special affection for Dubai, having lived there for 2½ years, writing for Time Out magazine. And a good time it was too. The sun shone, wages were tax-free, life was good. But soon it became clear that the protestations that Dubai was a liberal, free enclave in the Middle East weren't all that they were cracked up to be. Articles were regularly censored or pulled so that they didn't upset the Sheikh. "You can move around the edges," one editor told me. "But you cannot question Sheikh Mohammad's vision for Dubai".
One piece on Dubai World's purchase of P&O - another Sheikh Mo funded initiative that caused a political storm in the US - almost got me the sack. But that's the problem when you live under a system where one man, ultimately, has absolute power and can take your business off you at a moment's notice: everyone walks on eggs shells to avoid antagonising him.
In fact the UAE is one of the most undemocratic countries in the world, in the same bracket as Cuba and North Korea. Dubai makes up one of seven Emirates ruled by their own royal families. Limited elections were held recently but they were for the largely meaningless Federal National Council and only covered 1% of the 800,000 strong national population. The last index of democracy by the Economist placed the UAE 150th out of 167, two places below that paragon of democratic virtues, Zimbabwe.
Still, for the lack of democracy, you have the Dubai economic miracle to point to. Sheikh Mohammed must take enormous credit for transforming a sleepy little pearling port into one of the richest patches of land on the planet in a few decades. The problem is that Dubai's mega-structures and glitzy, eye-catching projects are built on the backs of an army of grossly exploited migrant workers. Allegations of non-payment of wages, passport confiscations, physical abuse, non-existent healthcare coverage, awful pay and appalling health and safety are rife among the UAE's half-a-million construction workers.
I saw the conditions first hand in the summer of 2006. In a camp on the outskirts of Dubai, a few minutes' drive from the gleaming opulence of the Burj Al Arab hotel, construction workers building the Dubai Mall (the largest and most expensive mall in the world) at the Burj Dubai site (the tallest and most expensive building in the world), sat 10, 15, 20 to a room. Most had come from the Punjab and earned less than £75 a month for back-breaking work in up to 50-degree heat, six days a week. Raw sewage leaked from overhead pipes into the filthy communal bathroom and kitchen. One Indian man, with tears in his eyes, told me he was suicidal because he couldn't return home. He'd taken out a loan against his family's land back home to pay for his visa, as most of these men had done. If he went home, his family would be homeless. The employers knew this, he said, and drove down wages accordingly.
Conditions had got so bad that riots began to break out on the site and Human Rights Watch published a scathing report on labour abuse in the Emirate. "One of the world's largest construction booms is feeding off of workers in Dubai, but they're treated as less than human," said Sarah Leah Whitson, Middle East and North African director at HRW. "It's no surprise that some workers have started rioting in protest. What's surprising is that the government of the UAE is doing nothing to solve the problem."
A draft labour law was introduced last year but according to HRW it is just a drop in the ocean and key areas, like the right to unionise, have been ignored. Violators of labour laws are rarely punished in any case due to insufficient monitoring, although the negative publicity might now be getting through to the very top. "Sheikh Mohammed is embarrassed by the criticism that the labour issues have drawn," Nicholas Labuschagne, an executive at Dubai Holding, told the US magazine Architectural Record. "We're hoping we can show some very significant progress within the next six months."
But by far the most disturbing story emerged at the beginning of last year. Sheikh Mohammed and his brother, along with others, were served with a class action lawsuit in Miami for their part in the alleged abuse of underage child camel jockeys. (The case was dismissed on the technical ground that the US courts did not have the jurisdiction to try it). The Sheikh is well known in horse racing circles. His Godolphin stables in Dubai are world famous and he hosts the Dubai World Cup, the world's richest horse race every year. But his penchant for camel racing is less well known. According to the Ansar Burney Trust, a charity that brought the issue to the world's attention, boys as young as four were kidnapped in their thousands from Bangladesh, Pakistan and Sudan and forced to ride in camel races. The lighter the jockeys, the better. So the boys were systematically starved and beaten. Others, it is alleged, were raped or beaten to death and buried in a shallow unmarked grave in the desert.
Camel racing in the UAE is huge business, with the top camels changing hands for millions of dollars, but the revelations of the boys' conditions forced some action. Child jockeys were banned and replaced with robots. But according to the Ansar Burney Trust, thousands of young boys are still unaccounted for and unborn children are smuggled into the UAE and Qatar to breed the next generation of jockeys.
You can poke holes in anyone's character given a long enough stick. But the vociferous calls from the Anfield Kop for a Dubai-led rescue mission smack more of desperation than a desire to reconnect with the club's core values. Hicks and Gillett may have made some stupid mistakes, but do they really compare that badly to an owner tainted by controversy and who apparently has little interest in football, only in furthering the cause of Brand Dubai? Sometimes, it's better the devil you know."
« Last Edit: January 25, 2008, 02:06:29 PM by stroller »

Offline ThingOnASpring

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Re: Why do Reds fans want DIC? (Mark May)
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2008, 01:51:56 PM »
Just posted re this on the other thread...

'..Are built on the backs of an army of grossly exploited migrant workers. Allegations of non-payment of wages, passport confiscations, physical abuse,

sat 10, 15, 20 to a room. Most had come from the Punjab and earned less than £75 a month for back-breaking work in up to 50-degree heat, six days a week. Raw sewage leaked from overhead pipes into the filthy communal bathroom and kitchen. One Indian man, with tears in his eyes, told me he was suicidal because he couldn't return home. He'd taken out a loan against his family's land back home to pay for his visa, as most of these men had done. If he went home, his family would be homeless. The employers knew this, he said, and drove down wages accordingly.'


Haven't half these accusations been levelled at the uk recently. Workers duped into spending all their savings only to get here and be given shit accommodation and wages. Some people forced into crime or sex trafficking, or having their lives thrown away on morecambe bay?

Not for a second defending the rights record in dubai, but someone is obviously tying to stick the boot in and conveniently at the same time as the loan deal is announced, pr spin is in overdrive, and our owners are desperate to convince us the devil we know is much better
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Offline Old No7

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Re: Why do Reds fans want DIC? (Mark May)
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2008, 01:54:57 PM »
stability

end of thread
They cannot do possibly any worse than the current ones.

How does anyone know they will bring stability or do any better though?

Dont get me wrong i'm far from happy with the way the yanks have carried on, but i just don't see how anybody can know DIC will be better

Offline Danny Boys Dad

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Re: Why do Reds fans want DIC? (Mark May)
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2008, 01:56:56 PM »
How does anyone know they will bring stability or do any better though?

Dont get me wrong i'm far from happy with the way the yanks have carried on, but i just don't see how anybody can know DIC will be better

And they could possibly be a lot worse.
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Offline litliper

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Re: Why do Reds fans want DIC? (Mark May)
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2008, 01:58:38 PM »
How does anyone know they will bring stability or do any better though?

Dont get me wrong i'm far from happy with the way the yanks have carried on, but i just don't see how anybody can know DIC will be better

I think the general feeling is that DIC is currently a question mark. It's better to get a new owner who could turn out to be bad or good than to have the current one who we know is bad. Pretty simple if you think about it...but insanely complicated if you think even more about it. :P
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Re: Why do Reds fans want DIC? (Mark May)
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2008, 01:59:08 PM »
stability

end of thread

Is right we are in for a financial rollercoaster every year with G&H. Dubai may be a dictatorship however we would be naive to suggest they are any worse than large multinational corporations or other governments. I actually spoke to a guy working out there he knew before he went that the wages were less than he would get in London/ UK he went for the tax free life. Now while feeling sorry for the construction workers conditions , what conditions do you think they came from to make this type of life appealing ? we need to be rational here and see this sensationalist ( making it worse than it really is ) journalism for what it is.

Offline realtarragona

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Re: Why do Reds fans want DIC? (Mark May)
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2008, 01:59:22 PM »
How does anyone know they will bring stability or do any better though?

Dont get me wrong i'm far from happy with the way the yanks have carried on, but i just don't see how anybody can know DIC will be better

Me neither.

It's also strange to me that people are willing to practically beg DIC to come in and take over when they're probably the same fans who were made up when G&H took over.

Offline Old No7

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Re: Why do Reds fans want DIC? (Mark May)
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2008, 02:00:50 PM »
It's better to get a new owner who could turn out to be bad or good than to have the current one who we know is bad. Pretty simple if you think about it...but insanely complicated if you think even more about it. :P

Is it? doesn't the old saying go 'better the devil you know'?

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Re: Why do Reds fans want DIC? (Mark May)
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2008, 02:03:26 PM »
when did hicks start writting for the papers? :lmao

we have to give everyone achance when they come in and see how they treat us as for the human rights part where they dont treat their workers fairly iv never heard that before its never been on the news or panorama so im guessing its untrue!!
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Re: Why do Reds fans want DIC? (Mark May)
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2008, 02:04:56 PM »
Is it? doesn't the old saying go 'better the devil you know'?

I know man. I just hate that we're in this position as a club. I honestly don't know what I want anymore. Except going back to the good old days...which will never happen.
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Re: Why do Reds fans want DIC? (Mark May)
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2008, 02:05:17 PM »
How does anyone know they will bring stability or do any better though?

Dont get me wrong i'm far from happy with the way the yanks have carried on, but i just don't see how anybody can know DIC will be better

logic dictates they will bring more stability

if you can't see that then I CBA to explain it

I agree that nobody knows whether they will be better or worse ,whatever they mean, but purely on stability grounds alpne they have to be preferable

OK, Tom ?

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Re: Why do Reds fans want DIC? (Mark May)
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2008, 02:08:25 PM »
Before we were sold I wasn't a fan or enemy of G&H or DIC per se.

I'm now fairly much against G&H because of their actions since they took over.

It doesn't make me think, shit I wish we'd got DIC.

But DIC are innocent until proven guilty, whereas G&H are already proven guilty.

I had equal suspicions of both, the suspicions of one have been proven true.

Offline Old No7

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Re: Why do Reds fans want DIC? (Mark May)
« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2008, 02:09:22 PM »
logic dictates they will bring more stability

if you can't see that then I CBA to explain it

I agree that nobody knows whether they will be better or worse ,whatever they mean, but purely on stability grounds alpne they have to be preferable

OK, Tom ?

FFS i have already said in this thread that im no fan of G&H

And no i dont see how they will definately bring more stability, so please explain it for me

What if they come in, and want to saddle us with debt, change thae stadium plans and get rid of rafa?

How will that bring more stability? Your putting your hopes on these guys with no idea what their plans are!

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Re: Why do Reds fans want DIC? (Mark May)
« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2008, 02:10:52 PM »
Lets face it The Sheik is more stable and has to hold face, none of this farcical comments which Hicks  the   :tosser  has quoted as LFC the source for propping up his fcuking yankee out fits

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/columnists/bhorn/stories/063007dnspohorn.297ec72.html
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Re: Why do Reds fans want DIC? (Mark May)
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2008, 02:11:32 PM »
Why do Reds fans want DIC?
by Mark May, 25 January 2008
Interesting read....especially the human rights part (not that a Texas buisnessman is any better).


Thats a bag of shite if there ever was one... As if there's anything we didn't know about DIC from their first bid. This is Hicks PR, wherever the article has come from!

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Re: Why do Reds fans want DIC? (Mark May)
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2008, 02:12:51 PM »

 This is Hicks PR, wherever the article has come from!

agree totally mate , fcukin gob-shites
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Offline a partridge in seat_5c

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Re: Why do Reds fans want DIC? (Mark May)
« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2008, 02:14:20 PM »
FFS i have already said in this thread that im no fan of G&H

And no i dont see how they will definately bring more stability, so please explain it for me

What if they come in, and want to saddle us with debt, change thae stadium plans and get rid of rafa?

How will that bring more stability? Your putting your hopes on these guys with no idea what their plans are!

because they are a single investor and don't have to worry about disagreeing with themselves about anything, and they will not have to go cap in hand for funds

these are facts or as good as facts

the rest of the stuff like getting rid of Rafa is such an unknown (and open to bullshitting) that you can't possibly make decisions upon them

you make decisions on facts or near-facts and they point overwhelmingly in favour of DIC

Offline Degs

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Re: Why do Reds fans want DIC? (Mark May)
« Reply #22 on: January 25, 2008, 02:14:49 PM »
Quote
DIC is part of one of the world's most undemocratic regimes
As opposed to the two mates of George Bush we have now.

Personally I want DIC to take hold simply because  I want the yanks out.

But the fact they won't pay "over the odds" on anything worries me.


Offline Party Phil

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Re: Why do Reds fans want DIC? (Mark May)
« Reply #23 on: January 25, 2008, 02:15:46 PM »
"Why do Reds fans want DIC?"

Homophobe!


Seriously, fuck knows why. Desperation I think. There's no evidence to suggest they would be any better and the people emailing them pleas to take-over the club really don't know what they're doing.

This whole situation has become a bandwagon that's careering out of control rapidly. Half the people don't understand the real issues here and are jumping onto this silly crusade because they have heard / read the views of some more 'knowedgable' reds. Sadly it's probably the same clueless lot that are causing the situation to spiral out of control as they seize every opportunity to spout hate and bile at the Americans whilst endorsing blind faith in an arab investment corporation about whom we know almost as little as any other potential investor. It's good to support a good cause - the support for the HJC/HFSG and the Athens ticket march from people with no direct involvement is great, but at the moment a lot of hate and probably false hope is building up amongst people who are working off gossip that's trickling through like a game of chinese whispers.

It's getting out of control at the moment, people need to take a step back and look at what they actually know about the situation and act accordingly. I'm finding the situation with the fans more worrying than the ownership situation at the moment.

*watch get deleted now
« Last Edit: January 25, 2008, 02:20:39 PM by Gareth »
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Offline Old No7

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Re: Why do Reds fans want DIC? (Mark May)
« Reply #24 on: January 25, 2008, 02:17:26 PM »
because they are a single investor and don't have to worry about disagreeing with themselves about anything, and they will not have to go cap in hand for funds

these are facts or as good as facts

the rest of the stuff like getting rid of Rafa is such an unknown (and open to bullshitting) that you can't possibly make decisions upon them

you make decisions on facts or near-facts and they point overwhelmingly in favour of DIC

Thats a good point. I wasnt trying to run down DIC or defend the yanks, just asking for valid reasons as to why DIC would be better

Offline Party Phil

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Re: Why do Reds fans want DIC? (Mark May)
« Reply #25 on: January 25, 2008, 02:17:32 PM »
Personally I want DIC to take hold simply because  I want the yanks out.

Completely irrational. It could just be out of the frying pan & into the fire for all we know.
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Offline Rox

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Re: Why do Reds fans want DIC? (Mark May)
« Reply #26 on: January 25, 2008, 02:19:32 PM »
Why do Reds fans want DIC?

Blame Torres.  There's been some unsettling gayness that seems to have culminated in some gagging for DIC.

Offline CLOCKSPEED

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Re: Why do Reds fans want DIC? (Mark May)
« Reply #27 on: January 25, 2008, 02:20:43 PM »
do you think DIC would have considered replacing Rafa with Klinsmann ? leave it at that

Offline gramck24

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Re: Why do Reds fans want DIC? (Mark May)
« Reply #28 on: January 25, 2008, 02:22:17 PM »
Stopped reading here....

Why do Reds fans want DIC?
by Mark May, 25 January 2008
 This is despite a considerable outlay by the pair to fund the capture of record signing Fernando Torres, investment in Liverpool's Academy, not to metion the costs involved in the plans to build a new stadium in Stanley Park.

What outlay?

Offline corkboy

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Re: Why do Reds fans want DIC? (Mark May)
« Reply #29 on: January 25, 2008, 02:23:36 PM »
"Want DIC"

"Suck up to DIC"

Finbarr Saunders would have a coronary.

Offline Party Phil

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Re: Why do Reds fans want DIC? (Mark May)
« Reply #30 on: January 25, 2008, 02:23:58 PM »
do you think DIC would have considered replacing Rafa with Klinsmann ? leave it at that

WHO KNOWS?! Jesus Christ, we know nothing about them. It might be they would have lined up Jose Mourinho, with Hitler as his number 2, Pol Pot as physio and Stalin coaching the reserves but still people continue this farce!
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Offline albertared

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Re: Why do Reds fans want DIC? (Mark May)
« Reply #31 on: January 25, 2008, 02:24:15 PM »
They cannot do possibly any worse than the current ones.

how do you know this?

besides, even if you are correct, is that the height of our ambition, to have owners who are only just a bit better than the miserable shower we have now? surely not.

no, while we as fans have virtually no say in what happens i think that we should at least hope for something better than being investment fodder for a bunch of ruthless Arabs.

really what we need is a group of fairly wealthy true supporters as owners, who don't want a return on their investment. people who are not necessarily going to pump wads of cash into the club but who can attract/create improved revenue streams through sponsorships and other avenues.

you know, sort of like Arsenal are now or we were before but just a LITTLE stronger.

in other words, there really wasn't all that much wrong before that a more go-ahead chairman and new CEO couldn't have fixed but then hindsight is always an easy viewpoint.
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Offline BingBangBosh

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Re: Why do Reds fans want DIC? (Mark May)
« Reply #32 on: January 25, 2008, 02:30:20 PM »
G&H have shown personal interest at times in their sports investments. DIC is nothing but a profit making vehicle.

Offline Party Phil

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Re: Why do Reds fans want DIC? (Mark May)
« Reply #33 on: January 25, 2008, 02:33:42 PM »
90% of people on this site:
If you're lying, I'll chop your head off.

Offline SadRed

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Re: Why do Reds fans want DIC? (Mark May)
« Reply #34 on: January 25, 2008, 02:34:03 PM »
PR campaign all around by GH. Absolute bollocks. Funny actually how he takes up Human Rights Issues and Arab Culture and not talk of the business success stories.

How foolish is it to compare Al-Ansari's quotes when he acquired some other company and use it here just to show he is a businessman and not a true fan? Bollocks.

Hicks has been accused of not paying workers of some company their outstanding payments, I read in some other thread. Very poor article, written just to divert the fans views. I really think it is PR by GH.

Offline SadRed

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Re: Why do Reds fans want DIC? (Mark May)
« Reply #35 on: January 25, 2008, 02:34:40 PM »
G&H have shown personal interest at times in their sports investments. DIC is nothing but a profit making vehicle.

Yes. And f*cked them. DIC havent.

Offline Jason McG

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Re: Why do Reds fans want DIC? (Mark May)
« Reply #36 on: January 25, 2008, 02:38:43 PM »
''Hearts and Minds gentlemen, now get to work''

This new PR company are doing a fine job.
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Offline Old No7

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Re: Why do Reds fans want DIC? (Mark May)
« Reply #37 on: January 25, 2008, 02:40:14 PM »
Yes because the Guardian is a well known mouth piece of Hicks

Offline Mal

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Re: Why do Reds fans want DIC? (Mark May)
« Reply #38 on: January 25, 2008, 03:03:28 PM »
The article (and others where the angle is why do LFC want DIC) is daft in it's premise.

The bottom line is that most Reds want G&H out. Therefore it's not so much the thought of getting DIC in that gets everyone excited, it's the thought of getting rid of the Americans. Whether DIC would be any better is virtually impossible to predict, but the rumours that Moores would be involved more is slightly re-assuring. Fact it though, they are the only alternative at the table though and as far as I know, they haven't told us bare-faced lies.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2008, 03:06:57 PM by Mal »
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Offline Rox

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Re: Why do Reds fans want DIC? (Mark May)
« Reply #39 on: January 25, 2008, 03:06:02 PM »
So wouldn't it be much better to campaign for the club to be refloated so those with the money can buy back the club?