Author Topic: Who do you think you are?  (Read 4887 times)

Offline Henry Chinaski

  • Gay for Dirk, wants him naked.
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,599
Re: Who do you think you are?
« Reply #120 on: January 13, 2008, 03:59:49 PM »
Alfredo Garcia, that's who I am. Now where's me head?
A priest, a pedophile and a rapist walk into a bar...
He orders a drink.

Offline Liverbird 2010

  • but you can call me....likes to giggle a lot but only if it's about fellatio
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,409
Re: Who do you think you are?
« Reply #121 on: January 13, 2008, 04:00:51 PM »
My fear is that if Klinsmann and no disrepect to the man but his level of experience is nowhere what we should be looking for is being touted for a future LFC boss, who the fuck the owners will replace Rafa with

As Basta ya said before I dont think he was asked about the job, because I am 100% sure he would have taken it.


Online walshys_mullet

  • Only posts in match threads every other week due to rotation. We suspect this is John Aldridge or Andy Gray posting under a pseudonym.
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,974
  • We all live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Who do you think you are?
« Reply #122 on: January 13, 2008, 04:00:52 PM »

It is tiresome some of the complaints about Rafa. That he play players out of position. Well sorry if it gets on your goat, those who claim this, but when it comes to forwards, the modern forward needs to be adaptable to playing from left side to right side. What was Torres doing out wide left yesterday? Oh sorry playing out of position. No he was using his talents to put himself in postition to help himself and the team. Same as Henry did/does for years. Same as Plassy Ronaldo for Man Utd.  You will always see our forwards switching flanks and trying to get into position to score. Last season Crouch and Kuyt did this and both had a decent return with goals. Where does Rooney play? Always in the box, right? Never wide, never coming from any position in midfield. So he's played out of position then because he doesn't play in a 4-4-2 and keeps his arse in the box. Same with Tevez. But when our players do it, they are played out of postition.

Then we get to midfield and the laughable whinge of Gerrard playing deep. Well how the hell does he score goals from playing deep then? Again our midfielders have the license to roam from left to right. Of course Riise was out of position yesterday because he had the temerity to leave the left touchline. As if he's never done that before. Go ask Barca what was Riise doing just in the centre at the top of the box and scoring with his right boot.


er..theres a big difference between floating and being put in a position. if everyone had free reign the team would be all over the shop. When Kuyt has been played wide hes stayed wide for the majority and never been in the box. I never saw him in the box yesterday except at a corner. Torres goes wide yes, but is predominently centrally focused so he can score goals like he did yesterday, or against Wigan, or against Derby but you get the picture im painting.

Honestly people think you just come on here to make things up  to maon about its unbelievable,
"If you're in the penalty area and don't know what to do with the ball, put it in the net and we'll discuss the options later."

The Great 'Should have been Sir' Bob Paisley

Offline tezmac

  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,050
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Who do you think you are?
« Reply #123 on: January 13, 2008, 04:03:38 PM »
er..theres a big difference between floating and being put in a position. if everyone had free reign the team would be all over the shop. When Kuyt has been played wide hes stayed wide for the majority and never been in the box. I never saw him in the box yesterday except at a corner. Torres goes wide yes, but is predominently centrally focused so he can score goals like he did yesterday, or against Wigan, or against Derby but you get the picture im painting.

Honestly people think you just come on here to make things up  to maon about its unbelievable,
I would like to complain about your spelling of moan
In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king

Offline 4pool

  • Mr. ( last name) Minister Of Truth - 1984 to 1984.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 32,877
  • Liverpool: European Capital of Football 2005/2006
Re: Who do you think you are?
« Reply #124 on: January 13, 2008, 04:14:44 PM »
er..theres a big difference between floating and being put in a position. if everyone had free reign the team would be all over the shop. When Kuyt has been played wide hes stayed wide for the majority and never been in the box. I never saw him in the box yesterday except at a corner. Torres goes wide yes, but is predominently centrally focused so he can score goals like he did yesterday, or against Wigan, or against Derby but you get the picture im painting.

Honestly people think you just come on here to make things up  to maon about its unbelievable,

Well i suggest you rewatch all the matches since the first of the season. Kuyt gets into the box when he "plays out wide". Same with others. Kuyt was on for 15 minutes. I guess I could go back and watch and tell you the specific minute ( second) he went into the box but it would do no good.

You can take any bit of one match and craft a whinge around it.

And i'm sure the played out of position gang will never admit to how we move and rotate players throughout the match to put one of ours against one of theirs to create the best chance for ours to exploit a weakness of theirs. And that is why Rafa is constantly moving the players around the pitch like chessmen.

Nah..fuck it. play 4-4-2 and stay in position all the time. Just like Man Utd do. Arsenal do and Chelsea do. Along with other top teams around Europe. They ALL do that. We're the exception.  ::)
<<---Support Luis Suarez with his flag as your Avatar.

For the 96 -----Justice

Offline DAVO1

  • secretly cryptic
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,327
  • It dont get better than this.
Re: Who do you think you are?
« Reply #125 on: January 13, 2008, 04:23:41 PM »
Thats a good post lad.

Patience is the key.

Rafa is special,the glory hunting arseholes fail to see that.

We're on the verge of something really special.

Keep the faith lads.


Online walshys_mullet

  • Only posts in match threads every other week due to rotation. We suspect this is John Aldridge or Andy Gray posting under a pseudonym.
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,974
  • We all live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Who do you think you are?
« Reply #126 on: January 13, 2008, 04:24:12 PM »
I would like to complain about your spelling of moan

sorry im always typing too fast. :)
"If you're in the penalty area and don't know what to do with the ball, put it in the net and we'll discuss the options later."

The Great 'Should have been Sir' Bob Paisley

Online walshys_mullet

  • Only posts in match threads every other week due to rotation. We suspect this is John Aldridge or Andy Gray posting under a pseudonym.
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,974
  • We all live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Who do you think you are?
« Reply #127 on: January 13, 2008, 04:25:08 PM »


Nah..fuck it. play 4-4-2 and stay in position all the time. Just like Man Utd do. Arsenal do and Chelsea do. Along with other top teams around Europe. They ALL do that. We're the exception.  ::)

Good. We might win more matches like that :)
"If you're in the penalty area and don't know what to do with the ball, put it in the net and we'll discuss the options later."

The Great 'Should have been Sir' Bob Paisley

Offline MFletcher

  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,341
  • Rafa, Rafael; Rafael Benitez
Re: Who do you think you are?
« Reply #128 on: January 13, 2008, 04:28:25 PM »
You, there. Yes, you. Who do you think you are? No, really, ask yourself that question. Who are you?

Think about it, and then consider just how quickly you'd describe yourself as a master tactician.
It's been more than embarrassing reading some of the thoughts of fellow Liverpool fans lately, on this forum and others. New users and established posters, it doesn't matter. Some utter bollocks has been spouted over the past few weeks, including the fantastic notion that world class players don't need tactical instructions - just to 'express themselves'.

I'm not going to name anyone or refer to posts because I don't want to attack anyone. I can't be fucked, it's beyond stupid.

Think about it logically. Up until the summer of 2004, we had our own 'master tactician' (sorry Ged) who would outwit Manchester United, Roma and...um, that's pretty much it. For whatever reason, we couldn't do it against the likes of Marseille, Basle or Leverkusen. Our defence was solid for the most part of Houllier's tenure, but I guess with 6 players in defensive positions you'd expect that.

This isn't to slight Houllier. This is to put into perspective what happened the season after.

We won the Champions' League.

Just try to take that in, for a bit. Ignore the bollocks about it being a 'cup format based on luck' or shit about focusing on it instead of the league.

We won the Champions' League. The European Cup. Ol' Big Ears.
A lot of fans have been taken in with the media's new found blase approach to it. "Benitez shouldn't put all his eggs in one basket", "He's a typical foreign manager", "He's selling us short in the league" are just some rubbish complaints about Benitez.
Somehow, we've managed to turn European Cup challenges into a bad thing. What the fuck is wrong with you people?

Yes, it hurts that we haven't won the league in so long and that the Mancs are fast approaching our tally and we don't seem to challenge beyond December and and and...but fucking hell.

Remember Leverkusen in 2002? I can never forget it. Not because I truly believed we could do it at the first time of asking since Heysel. Not because I felt horribly, horribly cheated by that fucking bastard Basturk. Not even because Michael "let's buy him back" Owen hit the woodwork three times in the away leg.
But because we threw it away when it was in our hands.

We had a class team, a great squad and it was hard to see how we'd ever get back to that level. Especially with the squad we had in 2004/2005 and especially with the injuries we had with our reunion with Leverkusen.

Before the match, the media bigged them up as the team who beat Real, who went through ahead of Real and Roma, as dark horses for the competition.

After the match, the late goal we conceded was going to be our undoing. We'd thrown away our chance, Leverkusen were going to beat us 2-0, right?

We beat them. Convincingly. Once without Gerrard, twice with Biscan. Baros had decided to take a break from scoring goals after January, so our striking options weren't terribly good. And we played them off the park.

Now, they were shit. And slowly but surely, we bought that. How many people really count Leverkusen as an achievement? I do but I seem to be in a minority.

Juventus was a defensive masterclass and a brave decision to boot. A perfect display of how we could both attack and defend under Benitez. We blitzed them at Anfield for 60 minutes, until we just held on as we ran out of puff and legs. We nullified them in Turin and really should've snatched a win, had Baros decided to come back from his goal sabbatical.

Chelsea was even better, though not from a neutral's perspective. It was the closest I'd ever been to seeing football played as chess. I'm convinced that Benitez is one of the few managers in the world who would've pulled off the win in those conditions.

For those who say "yeah but we were a width of a post away from being knocked out, we had lots of luck" - okay, we had some luck but we also suffered lots. That handball in Monaco, the injury crisis that pretty much decimated our squad, what more do you want?

We won the Champions' League. We beat Milan, who were nigh on invincible. The one team that posed them problems before the final still couldn't keep them down.
Before the match, Milan were considered to have a perfect team. At half time, I was actually afraid of it finishing 6-0. Kaka, Crespo and Shevchenko took us apart with ease.
And we turned it around.

Of course there was chaos, of course serendipity plays a part. But if you're not prepared in the first place, if you don't put in the effort and do your part, luck can't do it by itself. Luck didn't score those goals, luck didn't stick Dudek's hand out to save from Shevchenko in extra time.

Then the season after, we got beat by Benfica. We took it on the chin, partly because of the euphoria of the previous season but partly because we believed we'd be back the next season.
We got our best points total that season since we last won the title. Suddenly that's not an achievement any more and not proof that Benitez knows how to manage in the Premier League.

Again, we were 'lucky' to win the FA Cup. I guess we were lucky to beat both Manchester United and Chelsea in the same run? Or that we came back twice to equalise the match?

Oh but we have to thank Steven Gerrard for that. Not Benitez.
It didn't matter that Benitez had played Gerrard on the right rather than the centre, letting Gerrard be free to attack the ball and damage West Ham so much?

Last season, we didn't do as well in the league but got to the final of the Champions' League again. Why focus on the Champions' League, Rafa? It's not like we're bothered about it any more. It's not like people were going apeshit to try to get to Athens, that we weren't depressed or angry about losing to Milan?

Yes, they were there for the taking but they were also waiting to pounce. It was clear we had to play 4-5-1, whether or not Kuyt was the right man to lead the line is a different question. He was marshalled well by the Milan defence but then he wasn't there to cause damage. It sounds weird but prior to buying Torres, our attack was set up to have our striker as the focal point to bring in the offensive midfield play. If Gerrard knew how to shoot with his left, if Pennant had more confidence in his shooting, if, if if...
Tactically, we got it right. Maybe if we'd had Crouch up front he might've posed more of a threat but arguably the Milan defence wouldn't have had as much difficulty trying to nullify him. Pushing up would've meant he couldn't run past the defence. Playing Bellamy meant sacrificing build up play.
And sacrificing Mascherano meant Kaka would rape us.

So that brings us to now. A lot of people feel Rafa has taken us as far as he can, in spite of all the examples above. That he hasn't cracked the league, despite showing what he can do with limited funds and players. That he's too tactical, even though that was our biggest failing for years.

Somehow, playing the same eleven week in, week out is going to make us better.  Even though United, Chelsea and Arsenal rotate as much as we do.
Somehow, getting rid of most of our squad and bringing in fewer players will make us better. Even though our lack of stability is bemoaned as a consequence of rotation.
Somehow, getting rid of our intelligent players and bringing in pacier, stronger players will make our play better. Even though for 2/3 seasons, we suffered watching big, strong athletes try to pass to each other and failing.
Somehow, getting rid of Benitez and bringing in someone else (who, no one is entirely sure) would make things better. Even though our European pedigree is fantastic under him already and very few people have bettered him in the Champions' League.
Somehow, for some reason, playing Gerrard in the centre would bring us success, even though our best season occurred with him on the right, relieved of his defensive duties that people bemoan Benitez for putting on him.

Look. We think it's easy to manage a squad. Oh, we should've played Babel up front. Except when he plays up front, then he should've played on the wing. Except he's better cutting on his stronger foot from the left rather than trying to get on the outside and cross.
But...
How about playing Crouch more?
Except people were moaning about Crouch last season, how his finishing wasn't consistent enough, how he couldn't head the ball, how he was too static.
Now we're making Kuyt a scapegoat and as his confidence in front of goal drops, he plays worse and the myth becomes fact.
Torres shouldn't be rotated and he shouldn't be played against weaker teams in the cups. But we can't expect to beat those teams in the cups because Voronin, Kuyt and Crouch can't score against weaker teams.

We don't play until the last few minutes because clearly the shackles come off then. Not because other teams tire or our players realise that the game is nearly lost.

Our players have started to mimic us. We feel we know more than Rafael Benitez. Gerrard's wasted on the right, he should play in the centre. If he gets substituted, what the fuck are you doing, Rafa? Why play Lucas, he has nothing on Gerrard.
Oh, it was a risky substitution that he was lucky to benefit from. But Rafa's bemoaned for not making risky substitutions.

I know this has become one long stream of thought but it's almost ridiculous these days seeing the crap that he's berated for. Suddenly Mourinho will instill in us that winning mentality, clearly seen in three semi finals. Suddenly we don't need to give Rafa funds, he'll waste it on cheap players. So we don't give him anything so he spends what he has on...cheap players.

Rafa likes hard workers, fuck, we want someone lazy but talented. But then the system won't work and it's all Rafa's fault.

What's my point?
My point is, we really need to remember where our station is. Titles aren't won in just a couple of years. The exceptions are always with well built squads that need tweaking, never overhauling. Houllier, Mourinho, Wenger, they all went to clubs and won titles with backbones intact.
While we faffed about changing managers, youth policies and systems, we've lost sight of the fact that we need to give it a fucking go.

You can't start building a skyscraper then half way through decide you want a different design. You can't go into this half arsed.
Give Rafael Benitez five, seven, hell give him ten years if he wants it. Give him funds and support. He's certainly not going to relegate us and our European runs will be more than enough as he builds for the title push.
We weren't going to win it this year. It was unlikely and it's still unlikely. Nothing's impossible but if we keep dropping ourselves into one disaster after another, we won't win anything.

This isn't blind faith. There will always be problems and no one's perfect. But if Rafael Benitez isn't given a proper, long term chance than it'll be one of the crimes of footballing history. I'll be ashamed and let's face it, if Benitez can't win the title with us, no one can.

And judging by some of the crap being spouted lately, we might not deserve a title anyway.

So yeah, I'm expecting crap about Zenden, Kuyt and Pennant now. It'll miss the point but I'll probably respond anyway.

Well fucking said mate.

They don't care about Rafa,
They don't care about the fans,
Liverpool Football Club is in the wrong hands.

Offline 4pool

  • Mr. ( last name) Minister Of Truth - 1984 to 1984.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 32,877
  • Liverpool: European Capital of Football 2005/2006
Re: Who do you think you are?
« Reply #129 on: January 13, 2008, 04:30:20 PM »
Good. We might win more matches like that :)

Get back to designing..:P
<<---Support Luis Suarez with his flag as your Avatar.

For the 96 -----Justice

Offline myralfc

  • "She blinded me with science!"
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Main Stander
  • *****
  • Posts: 163
  • Logic tempered by a penchant for insanity...
    • erm, yeah...
Re: Who do you think you are?
« Reply #130 on: January 13, 2008, 04:58:00 PM »
Just want to personally thank Spam Monkey...rarely do I read something that I 100% agree with. 
:scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf

I was up entirely too late last night from insomnia, and I couldn't believe the things that were being posted.  That did nothing but make the insomnia worse as I was then angry enough to break things.

I just don't understand the mentality of NOW NOW NOW!  I am amazed at how far Benitez has brought us since the days of Houillier.  Don't get me wrong, I was there at Roma 2002 singing my heart out for the man.  I think the trophies he won us brought back a sense of pride and a real optimism that had been lacking.  But the ugly tactics of negative, choppy football really did set us back.  One failed signing after another, a stale youth academy, and by the end of his reign...the look as if it were all about to unravel. 

Sure Benitez has had his Josemi's, but he never brought in a despicable c*nt by the name of Diouff, that I cringe at the thought of pulling on that shirt.  (I'm going off on a tangent.)  The point is, I see progress yearly.  I see more than a one-off winning team being built.  I see a man building a legacy...and that, my friends, takes time.  Is it frustrating being so close yet so far away....yes!  But that's just it...I now believe it's possible BECAUSE of Rafa, I'm not about to lose faith in a man I actually admire and respect immensely.


Offline Valore

  • Why Don't You Come On Over
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,339
  • Help Rafa, help us. Help Rafa... Help Us...
Re: Who do you think you are?
« Reply #131 on: January 13, 2008, 05:07:07 PM »
I just edited this a little bit, watched the movie tonight, and felt a pang as I wished I could get Rafa to roar this out at a stunned Anfield crowd ;D

Quote
"My fellow scousers, tonight, our club that which we stand for and all that we hold dear faces a grave and terrible threat. This violent and unparalleled assault to our success will not go undefended or unpunished. Our enemy is an insidious one, seeking to divide us and destroy the very foundation of our great club. Tonight we must remain steadfast. We must remain determined. But most of all, we must remain united. Those caught tonight in violation of support will be considered in league with our enemy and prosecuted as a terrorist without leniency or exception. Tonight I give you my most solemn vow that justice will be swift, it will be righteous, and it will be without mercy."

I then pictured Dava and his buddies parading around and dragging off 'fans' to be shot ;D

Apologies to those of you who accuse those like me of being blinkered Rafa yesmen, I really do agree to some of what you say, though not always the way in which some put their views across.
Quote
They beat better teams on the way, won in circumstances when other teams would have surrendered, were given the last rites and pronounced dead at the scene, before grabbing the attendant by the throat on the slab in the morgue, making everyone jump.

- Martin Samuel, after we beat Arsenal 4-2 in the second leg of the CL QF 2007-200

Online Fat Scouser

  • Trolley Dolly with a 54 2/3 inch waist - last seen shopping on Scottie Road for speedos
  • RAWK Writer
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 20,505
Re: Who do you think you are?
« Reply #132 on: January 13, 2008, 05:20:08 PM »
Good point Valor mate. but I just watch a movie an all... Carry on up the league.
And we wasn't in it
"The issue which has swept down the centuries, and which will have to be fought sooner or later, is the people vs the banks. Lord Acton, Historian, 1834 - 1902.

www.misternobody.co.uk

Love you Luis, yer mad bastard, yer.

Online Slick_Beef

  • RAWK's Master Baker
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,800
Re: Who do you think you are?
« Reply #133 on: January 13, 2008, 05:21:49 PM »
Agreed with the first post. Nice one mate
And on the pedestal these words appear:
"My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains.

Online filopastry

  • seldom posts but often delivers
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,711
  • Let me tell you a story.........
Re: Who do you think you are?
« Reply #134 on: January 13, 2008, 05:22:54 PM »
I have said it on more than one occasion, at this point in time, Rafa's most effective ally within the club is Rafa.

Remember when they asked him to keep quiet and concentrate on what happens on the pitch until Dec. 16th ? we went on a wonderful little run of wins, went through to the knock outs in the CL, and at that moment in time, no response was more beautiful or more to the point than what took place on the pitch.

The irony of course, is since the meeting took place, and ease of tension, the performances have dipped once more and 2 weeks into 2008, we're still looking for our first win.

If you draw with Wigan, if you draw with Man City, if you draw with Luton or 'Boro, then you are effectively loading the bullets for yourself (harsh as that sounds).

At this point in time it's pointless for G&H to come out with any form of backing or even a new contract, because in the world of football this means nothing (ask Maureen/fat Sam/Sanchez what their contracts mean right now, to name a few).

The best response you can give, is on the pitch, if you don't do this (tactically, or emotionally inspiring the team, or even just having the bad luck of your team being off form) then you pretty much take what you can get, a cruel business, but people investing hundreds of millions, and it's high stakes, the days of giving a manager 5 or 6 or 10 more years because 'he is onto something' are long gone I'm afraid.

You think the tension's dropped since December 16th?


Online The 5th Benitle

  • A soldier not a Capo di tutti capi. Clapham Stalker. RAWK X Factor Winner 2011. On the run from Mt Olympus, charged with deicide.
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 36,977
  • Read, then post...
Re: Who do you think you are?
« Reply #135 on: January 13, 2008, 05:25:53 PM »
Agger isn't good, quick or mobile enough
Do you seriously think that?
­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­signature

Offline Alan_X

  • 'twatito' - The Cat Herding Firm But Fair Voice Of Reason (Except when he's got a plank up his arse). Gimme some skin, priest! Has a general dislike for Elijah Wood.
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 27,451
  • Come on you fucking red men!!!
Re: Who do you think you are?
« Reply #136 on: January 13, 2008, 05:26:31 PM »
Again, that has always been the case. Throw an opinion around for long enough and eventually, it gets told as fact.


I've lost count of the number of people who say we have to get rid of Rafa because we'll finish fourth again behind the other three...


 :butt
Sid Lowe (@sidlowe)
09/03/2011 08:04
Give a man a mask and he will tell the truth, Give a man a user name and he will act like a total twat.
Its all about winning shiny things.

Online Fat Scouser

  • Trolley Dolly with a 54 2/3 inch waist - last seen shopping on Scottie Road for speedos
  • RAWK Writer
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 20,505
Re: Who do you think you are?
« Reply #137 on: January 13, 2008, 05:27:42 PM »
You, there. Yes, you. Who do you think you are?
So, who do you think you are kidding Mr. Hickler, if you think old Rafa's done
"The issue which has swept down the centuries, and which will have to be fought sooner or later, is the people vs the banks. Lord Acton, Historian, 1834 - 1902.

www.misternobody.co.uk

Love you Luis, yer mad bastard, yer.

Offline RedRush

  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,510
Re: Who do you think you are?
« Reply #138 on: January 13, 2008, 05:33:01 PM »
Spot on, Spam Deluxe Monkey!

Spot on as well Lukealexander. Although I have to point out to you that Spam Deluxe Monkey has every right to rant as you have said so in your piece, and its a very reasonable rant I might add!

For me, I will support Rafa because I don't think anyone else can do a better job than him under the circumstances.

And Mourinho can f off.


Offline Red_in_Holland

  • arl arse
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,435
  • Attack is the best defense.. btw we have both
Re: Who do you think you are?
« Reply #139 on: January 13, 2008, 05:38:53 PM »

I've lost count of the number of people who say we have to get rid of Rafa because we'll finish fourth again behind the other three...


 :butt

Amazing really, we have lost fkin TWICE in 21 games.   9 draws, which I feel we should have won, Chelsea in fkin particular, thank you Styles.   18pts squandered, if you like.  Which would of put us well clear at the top of the table.

We are not so far away,  I genuinely can't see why Rafa should be got rid of.   Fourth again ?.. I thought we were third last season ?  ;)

RiH
Los Rojos Conquistadores
"It's good to have a challenge in training. If you play against one of the best strikers in the Premier League almost everyday, that can only help you when the game comes around each weekend."
 
Asked if he had worked out how to stop Torres, Hyypia added: "I'm working on it, I'm working on it.

Online Fat Scouser

  • Trolley Dolly with a 54 2/3 inch waist - last seen shopping on Scottie Road for speedos
  • RAWK Writer
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 20,505
Re: Who do you think you are?
« Reply #140 on: January 13, 2008, 05:42:42 PM »
I suppose it's a nice break from the great OOT and day tripper debate that obsessed everyone before our on and off the field troubles.
But, now with every thread, no matter what the subject, being turned into a pro or anti Rafa rally, I'm sort of even missing the great Trinny and Susannah debates of what and what to not wear on the Kop...
Jester hat for Mr. Hicks.
And Rafa ditch the goatee. I made my wife shave her's off after the Reading game.
"The issue which has swept down the centuries, and which will have to be fought sooner or later, is the people vs the banks. Lord Acton, Historian, 1834 - 1902.

www.misternobody.co.uk

Love you Luis, yer mad bastard, yer.

Offline J££RARD

  • Thai me up, Thai me down.
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,497
  • be nice or F.O.
Re: Who do you think you are?
« Reply #141 on: January 13, 2008, 05:44:31 PM »
this is great.
my twitter rant: @jeerard

Offline Jezzman

  • Kopite
  • ****
  • Posts: 918
  • World Traveller
Re: Who do you think you are?
« Reply #142 on: January 13, 2008, 05:45:40 PM »
Really, really good post !! I agree with every word !

Offline Valore

  • Why Don't You Come On Over
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,339
  • Help Rafa, help us. Help Rafa... Help Us...
Re: Who do you think you are?
« Reply #143 on: January 13, 2008, 05:49:46 PM »
Good point Valor mate. but I just watch a movie an all... Carry on up the league.
And we wasn't in it

Not you Fats, you're great ;D If all the moaners were like you, we'd have far more readable post match threads and a lot less of this kneejerk rubbish!
Quote
They beat better teams on the way, won in circumstances when other teams would have surrendered, were given the last rites and pronounced dead at the scene, before grabbing the attendant by the throat on the slab in the morgue, making everyone jump.

- Martin Samuel, after we beat Arsenal 4-2 in the second leg of the CL QF 2007-200

Offline Red_in_Holland

  • arl arse
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,435
  • Attack is the best defense.. btw we have both
Re: Who do you think you are?
« Reply #144 on: January 13, 2008, 05:52:58 PM »
I suppose it's a nice break from the great OOT and day tripper debate that obsessed everyone before our on and off the field troubles.
But, now with every thread, no matter what the subject, being turned into a pro or anti Rafa rally, I'm sort of even missing the great Trinny and Susannah debates of what and what to not wear on the Kop...
Jester hat for Mr. Hicks.
And Rafa ditch the goatee. I made my wife shave her's off after the Reading game.

That made me laugh, yer daft get  :)

RiH
Los Rojos Conquistadores
"It's good to have a challenge in training. If you play against one of the best strikers in the Premier League almost everyday, that can only help you when the game comes around each weekend."
 
Asked if he had worked out how to stop Torres, Hyypia added: "I'm working on it, I'm working on it.

Online Fat Scouser

  • Trolley Dolly with a 54 2/3 inch waist - last seen shopping on Scottie Road for speedos
  • RAWK Writer
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 20,505
Re: Who do you think you are?
« Reply #145 on: January 13, 2008, 05:58:12 PM »
That's me lads. Just a chubby little ray of sunshine. Roll on the next rant
"The issue which has swept down the centuries, and which will have to be fought sooner or later, is the people vs the banks. Lord Acton, Historian, 1834 - 1902.

www.misternobody.co.uk

Love you Luis, yer mad bastard, yer.

Offline Kuyts_Kite

  • Kemlynite
  • *
  • Posts: 16
Re: Who do you think you are?
« Reply #146 on: January 13, 2008, 06:21:26 PM »
Benitez has become a victim of his own success.

People expect miracles year in year out......because he is gulity as charged for winning a Champions League with a squad that had no right to even be making the knock-out phase...let alone turning over Juventus and AC Milan!

Our current league position is realistic if you consider the following:-

Manchester United - A squad expensively assembled and built up over a long period of time without wholesale changes.

Arsenal - Excellent pass and move football and players signed specifically to play this kind of football.

Chelsea - Bottomless pit of money thrown at building a team that should be winning the Prem every year without question.

Mourinho was ousted at Chelsea for failing in a job that was infallible.

How on earth can he fail to win the Premiership three seasons on the trot having spent such ludicrous amounts of money buying whoever he likes???

Not winning the Champions League once at Chelsea and being gazzumped twice by a team in two semi-finals that was built on a incompairable 'shoestring'???

Mourinho was playing fantasy football with an unlimited budget and still failed to beat other teams that were not even able to compete in the same financial playing field.

As an ex-footballer....I believed in my own ability and nothing my manager told me would make me feel any differently.  The manager can give instructions and bark orders from the touchline but the only person that can make a footballer perform is himself.

The 'puppet on a string' footballer is a myth and people who have played the game at a reasonable level will acknowledge this.

We are currently lacking hunger in the squad and that may have something to do with what is going on behind the scenes..but maybe it doesn't.

Our biggest failing is not having the 'killer instinct' to finish a game off by getting the second, third or fourth goal etc....when it is needed.

Things take time to find the right blend of players to compliment eachother and sometimes players are brought in that don't have the desired effect.

How long is Skrtel going to be given by the supporters before they are baying for his blood?.....a few games maximum going by some of the shite that you read on this forum! One mistake and they will be calling him a flop and a failure!

 If the lad does well from the off in his Liverpool career I think we are going to see a quick change in the way we set out our stall.

 Defending higher up the pitch would be possible with an Agger/Skrtel centre defensive pairing and this will give us much better shape.

Manchester United and Arsenal don't concede many goals and this is largely due to the fact that they are extremely pacey at the back and rarely get caught out by long balls or balls being played through the centre as they are quick enough to track back.

Their centre halves are also commanding in the air and can play a bit of football too.

Benitez has addressed this issue in my opinion by the Skrtel signing and this should make us even more tight at the back but also allow us to attack more as a unit.

People are upset about the contribution of Voronin and Kuyt.....imagine how pig sick you would be as a Chelsea supporter knowing that Shevchenko is possibly worse than either of them and cost cost £30,000,000 for the priviledge!

I do feel that in this transfer window a new striker would be beneficial just to give us something a little different and to compliment Torres.

Kuyt, Voronin and Crouch are all lacking a bit in the 'pace' department and someone with Premiership experience would be our best bet in my opinion.

Robbie Keane would suit us down to the ground I think!

Online mazlo123

  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,018
  • My kind of monster.
Re: Who do you think you are?
« Reply #147 on: January 13, 2008, 08:10:35 PM »
Spam  :thumbup You've summed up my feelings completely . . Best post I've read on here . .
To all those who agree with spam keep fighting the good fight!

As ive stated previously robbie keane would be ideal .. Works as hard as kuyt but a better finisher and more creative in front of goal
« Last Edit: January 13, 2008, 08:12:27 PM by mazlo123 »
They should go and feast on another dead corpse this one is alive and kicking and it will bite you fucking head off.

Offline TipTopKop

  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,568
  • Call Meeeeeee The Splund
Re: Who do you think you are?
« Reply #148 on: January 13, 2008, 08:34:40 PM »
You think the tension's dropped since December 16th?
Dunno mate to be honest it feels less than the time leading up to the 16th, back then it looked like Rafa's days were just that, days, now at least we know he'll have this season if not more.

The record signing of a defender, and Klinsmann being off to Bayern have at deflated some of the high charged emotions building up in recent weeks. Not out of the woods by any stretch, but I do think it was worse say in the week building up to the 16th of Dec.

Offline stylomilo

  • Main Stander
  • **
  • Posts: 86
Re: Who do you think you are?
« Reply #149 on: January 13, 2008, 09:01:25 PM »
Thank you for the patience to write this, Spam Monkey. I couldn't agree with most, if not all of what you've written.

To answer your question: i'm one of the molecules that are supporting RB, even in times when i've doubts about some of his decisions (well at least i've bettered him in Football Manager ;D).

A bit of background here: i'm from the far-east but now residing in UK. I wasn't a boyhood fan of LFC, like many of you here. My conversion was due to peer pressure, as most of my mates back home supported one club or another. So one day i told myself: "it's time to find one club for pledging my allegiance to...". I've looked around, watched a few matches (around 1999/2000), but none caught my interest except for these crowds in red jersey singing YNWA. Yes, it was the amazing fans and the glorious history (though i know nothing of it as compared to most of you) of the club that made me said the prayer :).

I was glad to have recently stumbled upon this forum, but at the same time dismayed to read some of the player/manager bashing opinions posted. Don't get me wrong, i'm not a Kuyt or Benitez fan boy. I do believe that it is good to have a certain degree of opposition, as someone wise once said before: "Don't be afraid of opposition. Remember, kuyt ;D rises against, not with the wind.".

Whatever our opinions may be, let us get continue to support our manager, as i believe this would be the best for our club at this period. To end i would like to quote what Jamie has said/asked before, "Who is bigger than Liverpool?"

God aside (pardon my believe ;D), no club, no manager, no player, no americans!

YNWA!


Offline BCCC

  • Or B square
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,324
  • Blessed are the Cheesemakers
Re: Who do you think you are?
« Reply #150 on: January 13, 2008, 10:02:28 PM »
I suppose it's a nice break from the great OOT and day tripper debate that obsessed everyone before our on and off the field troubles.
But, now with every thread, no matter what the subject, being turned into a pro or anti Rafa rally, I'm sort of even missing the great Trinny and Susannah debates of what and what to not wear on the Kop...
Jester hat for Mr. Hicks.
And Rafa ditch the goatee. I made my wife shave her's off after the Reading game.

 ;D

Although I'd love a return to the great OOT debate... It means everything is rosey on the pitch.
Opinions are like arseholes - everbody's got one. It only becomes a problem when arseholes have opinions and unfortunately internet forums provide a breeding ground.

Offline woof

  • Barking up the wrong tree.
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,948
  • ..and on the 8th day, God made LFC and it was good
Re: Who do you think you are?
« Reply #151 on: January 13, 2008, 11:25:35 PM »
Good perspective. I hope some of us fucking learn.

Anyway, I reckon I'm a realist and I'm all behind Rafa, for now. I still think managers should be given time but it should be a finite length. I reckon 6-7 years should be the right amount of time. That's why, next season will be very important to Rafa. Not that I'm writing off this season as I think there's still lots to play for - FA Cup, CL and CL qualification.

Rafa's been making gradual improvements every year so let's be patient and stick with him. We don't want another Newcastle tragedy to happen here at our beloved club.

Offline coffeehead

  • A Lack Of Real Spice In His Life
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,453
Re: Who do you think you are?
« Reply #152 on: January 14, 2008, 03:08:23 AM »
Rafa's done some great things and some not so good things; he's brilliant at some things and perhaps not so good at others; he has no peers in some areas of management but could do with changing his approach in a few others; he's willing to recognise his errors and change in many areas of his job but is frustratingly stubborn in others.

That might sound banal but that's what it all amounts to really; he's human and limited like the rest of us. All we can hope is that within the above and every other aspect of his character and ability he has enough to achieve the things we want him to achieve. We can't ask more than that.

Offline coffeehead

  • A Lack Of Real Spice In His Life
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,453
Re: Who do you think you are?
« Reply #153 on: January 14, 2008, 03:10:19 AM »
I couldnt agree more..

During matchdays its painful to be in here reading the matchthreads... It unbeliveable to read what some of the "fans" in here allow themselves to post.. Sometimes I find myself wishing the moderators would be stricter and actually ban those who seems to be there only to slag off certain players or Rafa...
You should look beyond it mate; in-game and post match threads are bound to be full of people venting their joys or frustrations and in the latter case people will say things they don't necessarily mean. It's better here than on fucking 6-0-6.

Offline shanklyboy

  • OCB Enforcer.
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,602
Re: Who do you think you are?
« Reply #154 on: January 14, 2008, 03:39:18 AM »
You, there. Yes, you. Who do you think you are? No, really, ask yourself that question. Who are you?


Excellent!
The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate, contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and unrealistic.

John F. Kennedy.
www.savelfc.org

Offline cuppatea

  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,117
Re: Who do you think you are?
« Reply #155 on: January 14, 2008, 03:51:14 AM »
Good post, but maybe highlights what I see as the flaw of these (and most forums) - people dealing in black and white.

Lots of members here seem to deal with false dichotomies: you are either for Rafa or against Rafa, something I simply do not agree with. I keep seeing people disagreeing with Rafa and being insulted or derided as an idiot (as Fat Scouser says) in addition to some people backing every single decision Rafa makes and outlawing any discussion.

The recent blips do not mean Benitez is incompetent, but winning the CL & FA do not mean he is above criticism or debate. As for people saying he has 10 years if he wants it, do you really believe that is true? Are you going to qualify that statement with levels of performance and success over the period?
I for one would not be happy to be scrapping for fourth and picking up a couple of cups in that period and I find that somewhat ironic because it surely wouldn't have been acceptable in the 70s and 80s. Sure, football has changed but we can reasonably desire to be taken forward and to challenge and hopefully even regain the league (and others) we so desire.

Rafa is a great guy and I like him a lot, but sentiment only goes so far and we shouldn't be blinded by "I love the club, the fans etc" if he is taking us backwards. Do you believe Souness loved the club, and if so were you happy with this performance?

As others have mentioned, everybody likes to think they know better than the professionals. The reality is that they probably don't, but discussing their decisions and mistakes have fuelled debates for years and this century is no different. I don't want to become part of some place where only accepting agreement is tolerated, nobody can grow and learn through rhetoric like is spilled here sometimes.

Summarising: Disagreeing and debating over decisions is good, essential even! Without that we become just another set of uneducated supporters waving their flags and lapping up the PR and media indoctrination. Insulting and disparaging the players, club, other fans and the manager is worthless and contributes nothing other than revealing your ignorance.

Great post that.

Offline navin

  • Anny Roader
  • ***
  • Posts: 250
  • Malaysia
Re: Who do you think you are?
« Reply #156 on: January 14, 2008, 04:47:35 AM »
An eye opener and fantastic read.
Liverpool Forever !

Offline bravoco

  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,727
Re: Who do you think you are?
« Reply #157 on: January 14, 2008, 06:32:46 AM »
Agger, Reina, Alonso, Lucas, Babel, Mascherano, Torres are all good enough.

Pennant, Aurelio, Arbeloa, Benayoun, Kuyt, Crouch all good back ups.

Add a top quality left sided player and a top quality support striker and we would be there.

Even Voronin adds more than Fowler.

I think that's a fair assessment. A creative outlet on the left and another striker anywhere near as good as Torres and we're very close.