Author Topic: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?  (Read 3994130 times)

Offline Saul Goodman

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #38200 on: February 22, 2012, 09:54:54 PM »
was mentioned on a footy podcast with sid lowe recently saying how attractive to watch Rayo are, anyone in particular to look out for?

I haven't watched them play many games. I tired at the start of the season as I thought Dani would get game time for them but he didn't coupled with the fact it's fairly hard to watch matches that don't involve the top two in Spain. I have been keeping an eye on results and such during the season in the hope Pacheco might get some game time. If you read the full interview the coach did that I posted a page back it is fairly clear his teams work very hard. The player weren't even getting paid at one stage last year which will tell you the kind of budget they are operating on. This is why I have found the coaches achievements very good.

They have the top interception rate of any team in Europe http://www.zonalmarking.net/2012/01/13/rayo-vallecano-interceptions/

Quote
FFT: How did you motivate your players to win promotion last season when most weren’t being paid?

I put into place ideas from amateur football. The one thing I enjoyed about last year is my belief that football is about teamwork, effort and commitment. This is what motivates you, as it’s more than your own personal world or contracts or anything else.
Last year, when the players weren’t getting paid, I would go down to the dressing room and listen to their problems.

I got to know their personal lives and problems, and I studied a lot when I got home. I got to know their world. When the results improved along with their self-esteem, it was all worth it. We made a conscious decision to isolate ourselves and form a common block between the coach and the players.

The whole interview is worth a read and he comes across like a good guy.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2012, 10:01:59 PM by Saul Goodman »

Offline Saul Goodman

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #38201 on: February 22, 2012, 10:00:04 PM »
Completely off topic but the fact that not a single English team is on that table of interceptions I find very hard to understand. Anyone able to explain it to me ?

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2012/01/13/rayo-vallecano-interceptions/

Offline scatman

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #38202 on: February 22, 2012, 10:09:48 PM »
Completely off topic but the fact that not a single English team is on that table of interceptions I find very hard to understand. Anyone able to explain it to me ?

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2012/01/13/rayo-vallecano-interceptions/
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Offline Saul Goodman

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #38203 on: February 22, 2012, 10:18:39 PM »
I think he had the highest rate of interceptions of anyone in Europe before his injury ? Ah I don't want to get the thread too far off topic I just found the articles reasons a little hard to believe and in most cases airy fairy. Funny that a coach (Luís André de Pina Cabral e Villas-Boas) trying to implement a system which relies heavily on interceptions is struggling so badly in a country where teams are geared very much against it as an overall tactic.

Offline jimmyjr86

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #38204 on: February 22, 2012, 10:53:04 PM »
The manager in charge of Rayo, Sandoval is doing a very good job with them this season. Newly promoted side with little or no money and they currently sit 8th in the table. I think in a side like that you can't afford to carry anyone who doesn't work very hard. Who knows working under a manager like him and Pacheco understanding the amount of work expected could be the making of him eventually.

Saying that the point difference between 4th and 17th in the league is 7 points  :o

agree entirely that it could be a Eureka moment for Dani if the coach can get his message across to him. It seems the coach is very open and frank to people so hopefully he has sat Dani down and told him what he needs to do/change.

Knowing our luck he'll discover it two weeks after moving to Atlético on the cheap

Offline RJH

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #38205 on: February 22, 2012, 11:33:30 PM »
Completely off topic but the fact that not a single English team is on that table of interceptions I find very hard to understand. Anyone able to explain it to me ?

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2012/01/13/rayo-vallecano-interceptions/

The stats are taken from whoscored.com, and they apparently get their statistics from Opta.
http://www.whoscored.com/Statistics

It does seems quite odd.
Currently, 17 of the top 18 teams for Interceptions are from La Liga.
You might expect the style of a particular league might make them dominant in a particular category, but I'm surprised it's to that extent.


Premier League seems way down defensively compared to the other leagues - first English team for interceptions is Bolton in 55th place, and first team for tackles is Sunderland (41).



Side Note:
In the individual stats, the top tackler is Behrami, with 5.1 tackles per game.
Lucas has 5.7 pg - but he doesn't feature on the list, because Lucas has 12 league appearances, and for some reason there's an arbitrary cut-off of 13 appearances. The swines.
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Offline liverpoolfcmike

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #38206 on: February 22, 2012, 11:33:35 PM »
Some players need their creativity and flair to be harnessed, rather than to be to forced to play a certain way. Every player has a certain preference in the way they like to play, and Pacheco, having trained at two footballing teams, certainly knows the way he wants to play. He's steeped in a footballing education that might take time to adjust to Rayo's way of playing.

Don't agree that all players can be treated in the same way - it will work for some and not for others. Doubt Pacheco will experience any footballing epiphanies there by the sounds of it. 

Offline Saul Goodman

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #38207 on: February 22, 2012, 11:41:46 PM »
Cheers RJH, have to say like you I find the stats very odd.

Some players need their creativity and flair to be harnessed, rather than to be to forced to play a certain way. Every player has a certain preference in the way they like to play, and Pacheco, having trained at two footballing teams, certainly knows the way he wants to play. He's steeped in a footballing education that might take time to adjust to Rayo's way of playing.

Don't agree that all players can be treated in the same way - it will work for some and not for others. Doubt Pacheco will experience any footballing epiphanies there by the sounds of it.

Couldn't disagree more strongly. Pacheco can have all the footballing ability in the world but agree completely with jimmyjr86 that the things he is learning at that club should stand him in much better stead for the rest of his career. Hard work, playing for one another and team play are essential attributes in the modern game. Obviously one shoe size doesn't fit all but you can still use your creativity and flair while learning to operate within a system.

Offline cptrios

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #38208 on: February 22, 2012, 11:55:02 PM »
Best part of that Pelosi article:

Quote
Scans would later reveal a Grade 2 sprain of the medial collateral ligament, which does not require surgery but will keep Pelosi out for two months. Despite the injury, Pelosi remains upbeat and thankful that the injury was not worse.

I had heard it was a tear before, but a sprain is far, far less severe. Obviously not a great thing to have happen, and being out for two months sucks royally, but an MCL tear would have had much worse long-term implications.
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Offline liverpoolfcmike

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #38209 on: February 23, 2012, 12:36:40 AM »
Couldn't disagree more strongly. Pacheco can have all the footballing ability in the world but agree completely with jimmyjr86 that the things he is learning at that club should stand him in much better stead for the rest of his career. Hard work, playing for one another and team play are essential attributes in the modern game. Obviously one shoe size doesn't fit all but you can still use your creativity and flair while learning to operate within a system.

But that implies that he hasn't already learnt to play within a system at his previous two clubs. It will probably help mature him as a player, but whether it will help him 'make it' at the highest level, I doubt it. The best creative players have teams built around them, or at least a team which will accommodate them in order to allow creativity to flow. Modern defending from the front is mostly about pressing, and there's no doubt this would have been reiterated again and again whilst in the Reserves.

There may be whisperings of an attitude problem, but it sounds to me as though their coach's philosophy doesn't particularly resonate with him, and that's an entirely subjective point of view of the player. Take Agger and Hodgson, for example. 

Offline jimmyjr86

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #38210 on: February 23, 2012, 12:45:40 AM »
But that implies that he hasn't already learnt to play within a system at his previous two clubs. It will probably help mature him as a player, but whether it will help him 'make it' at the highest level, I doubt it. The best creative players have teams built around them, or at least a team which will accommodate them in order to allow creativity to flow. Modern defending from the front is mostly about pressing, and there's no doubt this would have been reiterated again and again whilst in the Reserves.

There may be whisperings of an attitude problem, but it sounds to me as though their coach's philosophy doesn't particularly resonate with him, and that's an entirely subjective point of view of the player. Take Agger and Hodgson, for example.

i've not seen Rayo play much but it looks like the team is set up with high intensity pressing and work ethic rather than hodgsons sit back and let them play tactics. Guess he wants to see more of these qualities from Dani

these players do have teams built around them, but by the sounds of the coach you have to earn that role or even a place in the team through commitment for the cause workrate etc.

Offline liverpoolfcmike

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #38211 on: February 23, 2012, 01:05:16 AM »
i've not seen Rayo play much but it looks like the team is set up with high intensity pressing and work ethic rather than hodgsons sit back and let them play tactics. Guess he wants to see more of these qualities from Dani

these players do have teams built around them, but by the sounds of the coach you have to earn that role or even a place in the team through commitment for the cause workrate etc.

If that's the case then it sounds like Pacheco would be quite well suited to that type of tactic.

That could be the case, but it could also be that the coach has his favourite players in their favoured positions, which has served him pretty well this season, and Dani's lack of opportunities is used as an opportunity to fire the player up to dislodge the squad's status quo. Either way, it doesn't sound like a good place for a young player like Dani to be, and looks to be a season of his development wasted.

Offline DanA

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #38212 on: February 23, 2012, 04:02:12 AM »
The stats are taken from whoscored.com, and they apparently get their statistics from Opta.
http://www.whoscored.com/Statistics

It does seems quite odd.
Currently, 17 of the top 18 teams for Interceptions are from La Liga.
You might expect the style of a particular league might make them dominant in a particular category, but I'm surprised it's to that extent.


Premier League seems way down defensively compared to the other leagues - first English team for interceptions is Bolton in 55th place, and first team for tackles is Sunderland (41).



Side Note:
In the individual stats, the top tackler is Behrami, with 5.1 tackles per game.
Lucas has 5.7 pg - but he doesn't feature on the list, because Lucas has 12 league appearances, and for some reason there's an arbitrary cut-off of 13 appearances. The swines.

It might be that the English league is faster and less tiki taka in style than La Liga. Due to the speed of the english game teams can't set ip as well and press. That leads to more isolated one on one and situations indusive of a tackle rather than interception.
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Offline Cpt_Reina

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #38213 on: February 23, 2012, 01:20:23 PM »
Another 'Mini Derby' tomorrow then, U18s this time.

11am Kick off and will be shown on LFCTV.

They scored a last minute equaliser last time out so we owe them a beating.

Offline IndianRed

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #38214 on: February 23, 2012, 02:28:38 PM »
Best part of that Pelosi article:

I had heard it was a tear before, but a sprain is far, far less severe. Obviously not a great thing to have happen, and being out for two months sucks royally, but an MCL tear would have had much worse long-term implications.

Having torn my ACL around 4 months back, I can tell you that a ligament sprain is indeed a tear more or less. There are four grades of ligament sprains running from level 1 to level 4, with level 4 being a complete tear of the ligament. But the good thing with the MCL sprain is that it doesn't require surgery unless it is a full tear as the ligament fibers grow back and re-attach themselves. Its still a fairly serious injury but thankfully, Pelosi doesn't have to undergo surgery and his recovery time is subsequently much lesser.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2012, 02:36:46 AM by IndianRed »

Offline Niru Red4ever

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #38215 on: February 23, 2012, 04:01:35 PM »
Any reports on how Gulacsi was playing for Hull before getting injured? Is he still showing promise?
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Offline sirjames

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #38216 on: February 23, 2012, 04:24:02 PM »
Any reports on how Gulacsi was playing for Hull before getting injured? Is he still showing promise?

remember hearing he wasnt playing well but now might be recalled due to a injury... might be wrong though.
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Offline BigDonga

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #38218 on: February 23, 2012, 09:57:33 PM »
Wow, very good crosses for both goals.

*insert upcoming "could show Downing a thing or two" comment...
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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #38219 on: February 24, 2012, 12:40:39 AM »
Having torn my ACL around 4 months back, I can tell you that a ligament sprain is indeed a tear more or less. There are four grades of ligament sprains running from level 1 to level 4, with level 4 being a complete tear of the ligament. But the good thing with the MCL sprain is that it doesn't require surgery unless it is a full tear as the ligament fibers grow back and re-attach themselves. Its still a fairly serious injury but thankfully, Pelosi doesn't have to undergo injury and his recovery time is subsequently much lesser.

There is worse than a level 4, i snapped the  and tore the mcl from the bone, this caused a tibea plateau fracture which is basically your shin bone smashing against the femur your thigh bone and causing a massive fracture that sends splinters of bones in every different direction. I ended up losing my leg through compartment syndrome but the mental thing I got nerve damage when I had compartment syndrome which is your leg swells in a cast and because it has no room to move the blood supply gets cut off and the nerves get damaged as well. So even though I have no leg I still have pain in my leg. I have the pain I was experiencing that day every day. This happened during the summer when I played in a footy tournament that I shouldnt have with my mates. I never got to go back to the club but that was 15 years ago now. My boss SH said that the club had planned to offer me a pro contract and that I had a chance but he prob was massaging my ego when I was very down afterwards.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2012, 12:43:05 AM by superjack »

Offline IndianRed

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #38220 on: February 24, 2012, 02:41:31 AM »
There is worse than a level 4, i snapped the  and tore the mcl from the bone, this caused a tibea plateau fracture which is basically your shin bone smashing against the femur your thigh bone and causing a massive fracture that sends splinters of bones in every different direction. I ended up losing my leg through compartment syndrome but the mental thing I got nerve damage when I had compartment syndrome which is your leg swells in a cast and because it has no room to move the blood supply gets cut off and the nerves get damaged as well. So even though I have no leg I still have pain in my leg. I have the pain I was experiencing that day every day. This happened during the summer when I played in a footy tournament that I shouldnt have with my mates. I never got to go back to the club but that was 15 years ago now. My boss SH said that the club had planned to offer me a pro contract and that I had a chance but he prob was massaging my ego when I was very down afterwards.

Really sorry to hear that mate. I can't imagine the pain you must've undergone during then. My own injury seems fairly insignificant now compared to yours. Although with the advances in sports science nowadays, I'm sure they could've done something to save your leg. I'm lucky enough to be studying at an institution that has a FIFA accredited sports science facility and hence, the care I receive is very good. I hope you're very comfortable now.

Offline mercury

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #38221 on: February 24, 2012, 03:42:13 AM »
There is worse than a level 4, i snapped the  and tore the mcl from the bone, this caused a tibea plateau fracture which is basically your shin bone smashing against the femur your thigh bone and causing a massive fracture that sends splinters of bones in every different direction. I ended up losing my leg through compartment syndrome but the mental thing I got nerve damage when I had compartment syndrome which is your leg swells in a cast and because it has no room to move the blood supply gets cut off and the nerves get damaged as well. So even though I have no leg I still have pain in my leg. I have the pain I was experiencing that day every day. This happened during the summer when I played in a footy tournament that I shouldnt have with my mates. I never got to go back to the club but that was 15 years ago now. My boss SH said that the club had planned to offer me a pro contract and that I had a chance but he prob was massaging my ego when I was very down afterwards.

so sorry to hear that.  As IndianRed said, hope you are comfortable now.  YNWA.

IndianRed, yeah, the scientific progress for cruciate treatment has been incredible and no doubt you are on way to a full recovery (my husband did!)

Pelosi has to take care that he has fully recovered before he got into the thick of training and games.  Often it's first a tear -- sometimes without the person knowing there's a small tear -- and then progressively develop into a full rupture. 

Offline IndianRed

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #38222 on: February 24, 2012, 04:23:41 AM »
so sorry to hear that.  As IndianRed said, hope you are comfortable now.  YNWA.

IndianRed, yeah, the scientific progress for cruciate treatment has been incredible and no doubt you are on way to a full recovery (my husband did!)

Pelosi has to take care that he has fully recovered before he got into the thick of training and games.  Often it's first a tear -- sometimes without the person knowing there's a small tear -- and then progressively develop into a full rupture. 

Thanks mercury. I still haven't undergone surgery for the tear. Pesky academics getting in the way. Have the surgery penciled for the summer. I've pretty much trained myself to live with the injury as of now although its keeping me away from playing footie.

And you're right about Pelosi too. Cruciate ligament injuries are very tricky and painful ones to deal with and the only way to ensure a full recovery is complete rest. No point rushing the lad back and risking any recurrence.

Offline DanA

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #38223 on: February 24, 2012, 04:29:45 AM »
Any reports on how Gulacsi was playing for Hull before getting injured? Is he still showing promise?

Was very shaky in his first few outings and move to backup where he's not had a lot of opportunity. Shame as with Keeper it seems like there not a lot of opportunities after you make a few mistakes,
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Offline Niru Red4ever

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #38224 on: February 24, 2012, 09:11:33 AM »
Was very shaky in his first few outings and move to backup where he's not had a lot of opportunity. Shame as with Keeper it seems like there not a lot of opportunities after you make a few mistakes,

Wiki shows he had 15 appearances; which after getting benched he still got some chances. Any idea how he fared in them?
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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #38225 on: February 24, 2012, 09:36:29 AM »
Jack Dunn is a good example of why I thought about Suso because the coaches seem to be big believers in using different positions to teach players different angles, perspectives etc when they are never likely to actually end up in that position. I know it's different  in Suso's case as he could actually end up playing that role but Jack Dunn has ended up playing left back quite a number of times.
The 'weaker' foot confidence is well worth addressing at this level. John Charles said he had a run of games at LB in his development (what a hulking LB he must've been even then!). Recall an ex player saying he had to play training matches wearing a slipper on his 'good' foot. Suso may need a full leg cast.  ;)

Offline Cpt_Reina

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #38226 on: February 24, 2012, 10:34:36 AM »
Magri starts for the U18s and Nacho on the bench.

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #38227 on: February 24, 2012, 10:37:28 AM »
U18s XI: Belford, McLaughlin, Rafferty, Magri, Regan, Baio, Lussey, Peterson, Dunn, Ibe, Morgan.

Subs: Ward, Nacho, Mukendi, Sokolik, Hatch

Offline JustDan

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #38228 on: February 24, 2012, 11:04:02 AM »
Any streams about for the match?? 

edit: nevermind found one :) http://coolsportz.de/stream1.php
« Last Edit: February 24, 2012, 11:07:42 AM by JustDan »

Offline Milo the Monkey

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #38229 on: February 24, 2012, 11:06:37 AM »
Apparently here: http://www.hdfooty.com/     Channel 4
But I'm at work so it doesn't work for me. Hopefully you'll have more luck.
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Offline babraham

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #38230 on: February 24, 2012, 11:24:21 AM »
How've we started? Just got home.
We'll be selling Henderson within 3 years and not for a profit, I guarantee it. Bookmark this post, I won't be eating my words.

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Offline Cpt_Reina

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #38231 on: February 24, 2012, 11:25:58 AM »
Gerrin.

1-0 Dunn.

Offline Hazell

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #38232 on: February 24, 2012, 11:26:04 AM »
How've we started? Just got home.

Even game so far, not many chances but Jack Dunn's just scored from 20 yards out.
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Offline babraham

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #38233 on: February 24, 2012, 11:26:07 AM »
Great long range goal by Dunn!
We'll be selling Henderson within 3 years and not for a profit, I guarantee it. Bookmark this post, I won't be eating my words.

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #38234 on: February 24, 2012, 11:26:10 AM »
great goal jack dunn

Offline rawkus8

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #38235 on: February 24, 2012, 11:26:29 AM »
Great goal by dunn.. 25 yarder! Deserved aswell.
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Offline DAK69

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So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #38236 on: February 24, 2012, 11:27:11 AM »
Dunn 25 yards out left foot, bottom corner.
1 - 0 to Liverpool

Offline Cpt_Reina

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #38237 on: February 24, 2012, 11:27:45 AM »
How've we started? Just got home.

Been scrappy. Neither team's staked much of a claim or played much football.

No surprise the goal came about from a long range strike.

Offline superjack

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #38238 on: February 24, 2012, 11:32:02 AM »
Really sorry to hear that mate. I can't imagine the pain you must've undergone during then. My own injury seems fairly insignificant now compared to yours. Although with the advances in sports science nowadays, I'm sure they could've done something to save your leg. I'm lucky enough to be studying at an institution that has a FIFA accredited sports science facility and hence, the care I receive is very good. I hope you're very comfortable now.

Thanks I have learned to live with pain, sometimes it gets the better of me but most of the time I battle on.

Online andymanlfc

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #38239 on: February 24, 2012, 11:32:53 AM »
Bloody hell that rain must be bad.
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