Topic: Mobilising ourselves should the worst happen - Step 1 Sandon Pub, Wednesday 6.30

[BigV]

I don't want to be seen as scaremongering here, but I think that the events of the past few days are worrying and that we should be ready.

For now, all we can do is wait and see what happens, and show our support for Rafa in the stands.

But should things take a visible turn for the worse as many are predicting, how do we respond?  Regardless of what is printed in trash like the NOTW, it is not beyond the realms of possibility that Rafa could be given the sack in the not too distant future.

After years of speculation raging from Thaksin Shinawatra to Steve Morgan to Sheikh Mohammed, there was a general air of positivity when Gillett and Hicks took over, and this was no doubt reinforced when we splashed 20 million on Torres.

But footballing progress will always play second fiddle to profits.  These men are not fans doing it for the love, they have come here because we were a club in the ascendancy, with a large fan base with potential for expansion that they could take advantage of.  That is the reason they are here.  Fortunately, there is a degree of overlap our interests and their's but not entirely.

Rafa has clearly been marginalised and he is obviously very distressed at losing the control he needs to take us forward.

The purpose of this thread is for practical ideas and brainstorming for what we can do to ensure that things do not spiral out of control.  Gillett and Hicks must know in no uncertain terms that there is a place for them here, there is opportunities for them to make money, but it is not going to be at our expense.  We care about the football and the football only, and nothing else can come above it.

My own suggestions:

1. An online petition - I know 1 has been started already but we need something that is higher profile.  www.rafabenitez.com is an available domain that we could take over and publicise all around the world for fans to have their say.  The website can be a real demonstration of solidarity with Rafa and a place to give messages of support. 

2. Should Rafa be given the sack - boycott the club & protest outside the gates - G&H need to know that we're not going back until they're out.

3. Be as vociferous in our support of Rafa as possible between now and December 16.

Aside from all this, for my own knowledge, does anybody know how fans can organise to collectively buy the club as members like some other clubs?

[Walshy7]

WE cant do anything except sing his name

[Hinesy]

What would we do with the site. Say to the owners ooh we love the manager. I'm sure they'll hear the message loud and clear on the 16th.
Posting messages on a site may smack of an orchestrated campaign which the owners may not bother to take heed of.

[Istanbul Therapy Group]

The only thing we can realistically do is sing for rafa on wednesday and hopefully the yanks will get the picture.

If they sack Rafa they can fuck off as well, don't think they understand what they would happen if they did that.

[evered avenue]

I don't want to be seen as scaremongering here, but I think that the events of the past few days are worrying and that we should be ready.

For now, all we can do is wait and see what happens, and show our support for Rafa in the stands.

But should things take a visible turn for the worse as many are predicting, how do we respond?  Regardless of what is printed in trash like the NOTW, it is not beyond the realms of possibility that Rafa could be given the sack in the not too distant future.

After years of speculation raging from Thaksin Shinawatra to Steve Morgan to Sheikh Mohammed, there was a general air of positivity when Gillett and Hicks took over, and this was no doubt reinforced when we splashed 20 million on Torres.

But footballing progress will always play second fiddle to profits.  These men are not fans doing it for the love, they have come here because we were a club in the ascendancy, with a large fan base with potential for expansion that they could take advantage of.  That is the reason they are here.  Fortunately, there is a degree of overlap our interests and their's but not entirely.

Rafa has clearly been marginalised and he is obviously very distressed at losing the control he needs to take us forward.

The purpose of this thread is for practical ideas and brainstorming for what we can do to ensure that things do not spiral out of control.  Gillett and Hicks must know in no uncertain terms that there is a place for them here, there is opportunities for them to make money, but it is not going to be at our expense.  We care about the football and the football only, and nothing else can come above it.

My own suggestions:

1. An online petition - I know 1 has been started already but we need something that is higher profile.  www.rafabenitez.com is an available domain that we could take over and publicise all around the world for fans to have their say.  The website can be a real demonstration of solidarity with Rafa and a place to give messages of support. 

2. Should Rafa be given the sack - boycott the club & protest outside the gates - G&H need to know that we're not going back until they're out.

3. Be as vociferous in our support of Rafa as possible between now and December 16.

Aside from all this, for my own knowledge, does anybody know how fans can organise to collectively buy the club as members like some other clubs?

Had a drink have we?

[BigV]

What would we do with the site. Say to the owners ooh we love the manager. I'm sure they'll hear the message loud and clear on the 16th.
Posting messages on a site may smack of an orchestrated campaign which the owners may not bother to take heed of.

Whether they take heed of it or not, it can unite the fans.  It can be a point of reference for what is going on and what is being planned. 

Chelsea fans did something similar before Ranieri was sacked (www.saveclaudio.co.uk) which got a lot of media attention.  It was a friend of mine who set that up and I helped him create the petition but the Chelsea fans I think failed in that they didn't really follow it through, they were eventually distracted by Mourinho.

Also, it would be a great demonstration to Rafa of how much we stand by him and how much we are willing to fight for him - this can be a great source of strength for him and I am sure a powerful rock he can use in any future conversation with Gillett & Hicks.

[Umang]

surely, there has to be a way if all of us fans - on all the different forums out there - chipped in we could raise the money to send the americans back to their ignorant homes.

[johnybarnes]

If the worst does happen, WE didn't do enough.

We didn't shout loud enough, We didn't make the yanks realize the consequences of getting rid of rafa, We didn't make enough banners or signs, We didn't march enough ect

If they realize it would be suicide for them to get rid of rafa - they won't, empty seats in anfield, shirt sales ect ect they are skint enough as it is, hopefully they will sell up or back the fuck down.

[Le Terrible]

Well in BIGV...this is way we need to be thinking.  Finally.  This is a foundation.  A fundamental post.  The time for bellyaching is over.  We need to be ready to act.

[johnybarnes]

...hope for the best - plan for the worse?

[Jambo Power]

...hope for the best - plan for the worse?

Sit on my arse, hope for the best?

[redway101]

Actually we can do something.

Man U supporters reaction to the Glazer's has clearly had an effect and reigned in there behaviour. Beyond dumping a similar level of debt on them (which is pretty desperate) they've realised they have to run the club properly.

G&H aren't stupid. However I think we as supporters have to take some of the blame. We sleepwalked into this.

By welcoming them with open arms it's allow G&H to think "well LFC is done and dusted what next?".

I bet if they'd had even a fraction of the aggro the Glazer's have received they'd be a lot more attentive.

Ultimately G&H are money men, the last thing they want is half empty stadiums and mass protests.

[RedHandGang]

If Rafa walks then it is likely that Alonso, Mashareno, Arbeloa, Torres, Reina etc will go too... that is the danger a mass exodus and everything we have will crumble.

This our "Custodians" should never allow to happen. If they do then they will truly have bought a lemon as it will take lots more money to get back to what it is. So if the the buck is still the thing they are trying to make then don't fuck with foundations to new stadium etc.

I hope it is a mountain out of a mole hill and the yanks see business sense otherwise very dark days ahead I see....

[philyburkhill]

We shouldn't do anything because it isn't "The Liverpool Way".

[BigV]

We shouldn't do anything because it isn't "The Liverpool Way".

So what is the Liverpool Way?  Leaving our manager isolated?  Letting ourselves get trampled on by businessmen?

The traditions of solidarity and collective struggle are the Liverpool Way.  Do not get confused into thinking Gillett & Hicks are one of us, they aren't. 

Not doing anything would be being more royal than royality, being too posh to push.

[pool lite]

We shouldn't do anything because it isn't "The Liverpool Way".

Showing support for our manager is not the Liverpool Way? 

[SuperSub77]

One of my first posts on here was about Rafa and the Owen situation at the time, and my view of the psychology of the man and how he operates. Since then he's proved me right in a lot of ways.

Something is saying to me that there is another agenda here, that this could be a smokescreen. Rafa is a cool customer and not one I feel to act 'unproffessionally' in questioning his 'employers' publicly.

Could there be a bit of a 'false flag' situation here? (after all, the yanks are good at that). Knowing how passionate we are and how much we love Rafa, plus the underlying fear attatched to the American takeover, what better way to drum up more vociferous support than a rift? The atmosphere at games hasn't been what is should be at times, when it's right, it sertainly sells tickets and they've got a big new stadium to sell.

The other factor is that there's plenty of media fodder whilst behind the screen they work on things for January?

So what do we do? Give the club our continued support and watch with interest.

(Sorry - I haven't had my say on this yet!)

[tsgod1]

Suggestion 2 could never be done.

We all love liverpool too much just to walk away from it because I bet if you think the 3 greatest days of your life one of them will involve liverpool. At 15 the best day of me life was Derby at home the 1st game I'd gone to due to being around 6 hours away and previously having no money. I don't think I'd be alone in saying that despite the bullshit I'd find it impossible to stay away from the stadium not buy merchandise or to shout at the chairmen instead of being at the game Shouting for the team I love.

[BigV]

Suggestion 2 could never be done.

We all love liverpool too much just to walk away from it because I bet if you think the 3 greatest days of your life one of them will involve liverpool. At 15 the best day of me life was Derby at home the 1st game I'd gone to due to being around 6 hours away and previously having no money. I don't think I'd be alone in saying that despite the bullshit I'd find it impossible to stay away from the stadium not buy merchandise or to shout at the chairmen instead of being at the game Shouting for the team I love.

We need to be stronger than that.  It's not a case of abandoning the club but about saving it.  The deeper it finds itself entrenched in the G+H brand, the greater the loss of its identity and integrity.

If nurses go on strike, it's not because they don't care about their patients, it's because they feel that they're not given the resources to care for them properly.

[coffeehead]

WE cant do anything except sing his name

Never underestimate the power of a song

Wish I had a ticket for Wednesday

[mossleyhilkida]

One of my first posts on here was about Rafa and the Owen situation at the time, and my view of the psychology of the man and how he operates. Since then he's proved me right in a lot of ways.

Something is saying to me that there is another agenda here, that this could be a smokescreen. Rafa is a cool customer and not one I feel to act 'unproffessionally' in questioning his 'employers' publicly.

Could there be a bit of a 'false flag' situation here? (after all, the yanks are good at that). Knowing how passionate we are and how much we love Rafa, plus the underlying fear attatched to the American takeover, what better way to drum up more vociferous support than a rift? The atmosphere at games hasn't been what is should be at times, when it's right, it sertainly sells tickets and they've got a big new stadium to sell.

The other factor is that there's plenty of media fodder whilst behind the screen they work on things for January?

So what do we do? Give the club our continued support and watch with interest.

(Sorry - I haven't had my say on this yet!)

I doubt it, there are easy ways to go about such things. For one it could also seriously disrupt the balance of the team itself, unless as you seem to suggest they are all in on it, a huge media gag.

[mercury]

perhaps the petition should be sent to the supporters' clubs / fansite all over the world?  Surely one of the latent value of the Club is its worldwide fanbase?  we have enough RAWKITES from around the world to urge for support action out and far.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

WE cant do anything except sing his name

Yes WE can. We can not go to the games leaving season ticket seats empty.

[Valore]

Yes WE can. We can not go to the games leaving season ticket seats empty.

We could picket the bloody place if Rafa goes. People talk about this 'not being the Liverpool Way', but since when was the Liverpool Way being run by mercenary Americans who fire managers because they have the cheek to stand up for what's best for the club?

Not to sound extreme or anything, but if I were a daytripper or OOTer, I'd be pretty discouraged from going to the match if a big horde of angry scousers were outside Anfield picketing the place. What are G + H going to do? Get the police to come with riot shields and water cannons?

[Andy @ Allerton!]

We could picket the bloody place if Rafa goes. People talk about this 'not being the Liverpool Way', but since when was the Liverpool Way being run by mercenary Americans who fire managers because they have the cheek to stand up for what's best for the club?

Not to sound extreme or anything, but if I were a daytripper or OOTer, I'd be pretty discouraged from going to the match if a big horde of angry scousers were outside Anfield picketing the place. What are G + H going to do? Get the police to come with riot shields and water cannons?

It hasn't come to that yet - SO FAR the Americans haven't made any mind numbingly stupid moves. Hopefully they will show they have more brains than that.

[Alan_X]

One of my first posts on here was about Rafa and the Owen situation at the time, and my view of the psychology of the man and how he operates. Since then he's proved me right in a lot of ways.

Something is saying to me that there is another agenda here, that this could be a smokescreen. Rafa is a cool customer and not one I feel to act 'unproffessionally' in questioning his 'employers' publicly.

Could there be a bit of a 'false flag' situation here? (after all, the yanks are good at that). Knowing how passionate we are and how much we love Rafa, plus the underlying fear attatched to the American takeover, what better way to drum up more vociferous support than a rift? The atmosphere at games hasn't been what is should be at times, when it's right, it sertainly sells tickets and they've got a big new stadium to sell.

The other factor is that there's plenty of media fodder whilst behind the screen they work on things for January?

So what do we do? Give the club our continued support and watch with interest.

(Sorry - I haven't had my say on this yet!)

You read too many conspiracy theories. Things are quite simple: A very good but, stubborn manager and an egotistical c*nt in Hicks...

[Alan_X]

We could picket the bloody place if Rafa goes. People talk about this 'not being the Liverpool Way', but since when was the Liverpool Way being run by mercenary Americans who fire managers because they have the cheek to stand up for what's best for the club?

Not to sound extreme or anything, but if I were a daytripper or OOTer, I'd be pretty discouraged from going to the match if a big horde of angry scousers were outside Anfield picketing the place. What are G + H going to do? Get the police to come with riot shields and water cannons?

What the fuck! This isn't a scouse v OOT issue mate.

[Beebs]

You read too many conspiracy theories. Things are quite simple: A very good but, stubborn manager and an egotistical c*nt in Hicks...

I agree with this. Rafa has a huge amount of belief in himself, which is why he doesn't back away from a fight. Whether he thinks he can win it or not is not really the point—there'll always be a club ready to take him on and give him the freedom he wants, at least to begin with. There's no smokescreen though. This is a red-blooded Spaniard being passionate about what he loves. And, as you say, an egotistical c*nt.

[Valore]

What the fuck! This isn't a scouse v OOT issue mate.

No no, you completely misunderstand. I was just indicating that picketing would work, since even those who could be expected not to be so passionate or informed about the current issues, and hence more likely to go to the match, would be put off by the picketing, and thus achieving the objective of denying attendances to show G + H the extent of our support for Rafa

Hope that clarifies.

[harleydanger]

The scary thing is, i can't see Rafa sticking round for the long term if he has to put up with this shit every year.


The way i see it, mid-December either Rafa or Parry has to go.

If it's Parry, it's long overdue.

If it's Rafa, well, i don't really want to think about it.

[StevieG26]

We shouldn't do anything because it isn't "The Liverpool Way".

The take-over by Yanks wasn't "The Liverpool Way" anyway.

[NickoH]

Wish I had a ticket for Wednesday

You would have got one if you'd been the first two home group games 

[fudge]

Its all been done before, just buy your flag and apply petrol.

[Valore]

Its all been done before, just buy your flag and apply petrol.

Considering the number of inept supporters we have, I'm sure someone will accidentally set himself ablaze, inadvertently drawing parallels to the American invasion of Vietnam in an ironically unintended fashion...

[harleydanger]

Considering the number of inept supporters we have, I'm sure someone will accidentally set himself ablaze, inadvertently drawing parallels to the American invasion of Vietnam in an ironically unintended fashion...

lol

[fudge]

Hit them in the pocket is the only thing that has ever worked.

4. Cancel any Liverpoolfc.TV membership and ESeason Ticket and let them know why you're doing it.
5. If anyone's got the LFC credit card cancel it , cut it up and send it addressed to Hicks and Gillette at the club.
6. Same with any official merchandise, don't buy the programme, official magazine, certainly don't buy any of the fucking minging food inside the ground.

Its unlikely that anyones going to give up their season ticket or stop going, and it wouldn't make any difference to cash flow as they're already taken the loot but its very easy to boycott all cup games and away tickets.

[fudge]

Considering the number of inept supporters we have, I'm sure someone will accidentally set himself ablaze, inadvertently drawing parallels to the American invasion of Vietnam in an ironically unintended fashion...

yeah those Wanker Hats are a right fire hazard.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Hit them in the pocket is the only thing that has ever worked.

4. Cancel any Liverpoolfc.TV membership and ESeason Ticket and let them know why you're doing it.
5. If anyone's got the LFC credit card cancel it , cut it up and send it addressed to Hicks and Gillette at the club.
6. Same with any official merchandise, don't buy the programme, official magazine, certainly don't buy any of the fucking minging food inside the ground.

Its unlikely that anyones going to give up their season ticket or stop going, and it wouldn't make any difference to cash flow as they're already taken the loot but its very easy to boycott all cup games and away tickets.

If Rafa, say, got sacked in the next few days - then the best way to deal with it is to not go AND DO NOT SELL YOUR TICKET ON.

IF he did go - and that's a BIG IF - the BEST way to show support and the feeling felt would be for the match against Manchester United (Which they are going to see) to be more than half empty. IF you had a ticket and didn't go - then that would stop the idiots from taking up the slack.

An attendence of 15,000 vs the Mancs would shake them up.

[blert596]

Suggestion 2 could never be done.

We all love liverpool too much just to walk away from it

Not true anymore I'm afraid.

The Liverpool I grew up with has changed into a different beast altogether. Slowly but surely (and inevitably really I suppose) the Club has become more and more distant from its fans and its uniqueness. It is (was?) one of the last of a dying breed that had managed to avoid the total commercialisation, and classification of being a business entity first and foremost. We are (were) unique in that we were a dinasour compared to the others, a Club STILL steeped in it roots and family culture.

Thats what I love(d) about us. Yeah, the cups are great and all that, but its our history and the much maligned "Liverpool Way" that tie the heart to this club.

Sadly, this could all be washed down the swannee if things turn out as some seem to think (I'm not sure things are quite that bad yet though).

If Benitez goes purely because of powerplay/financial considerations - as opposed to poor performance reasons - then I'm afraid its the end for me. We just become another team

[Deadlogic]

If Benitez goes purely because of powerplay/financial considerations - as opposed to poor performance reasons - then I'm afraid its the end for me. We just become another team

That should be what everyone focuses on. 

If the best manager we've had since King Kenny is sacked for all the wrong reasons, then we will rightly be regarded as a joke club.

A British Real Madrid, if you like.