Topic: Benitez v Hicks and Gillett part 2: the latest from the Echo

[12Kings]

Rafa wont walk, they'll have to kick him out and if that happens its Game Over, set the clocks back another 10 years.
If they want to sack anyone, I'd replace parry, the mans so obviously incompetent.

[Moley]

When Rafa mentions 'free' players, he may be talking about:

Im convinced he's talking about Mascherano

[Moley]

This is nothing but idle speculation, but Villareal have a want-away Argentinian who will reportedly move clubs in January for a negligible fee .... where better than Liverpool for him to exorcise his demons from the 2006 Champions League semi than a top Euro club with a burgeoning colony of Argentines?

A team where he would actually be able to get a game?

[rafathegaffa83]

A certain journo who left the Echo is going pretty big tomorrow on Rafa will end up going and we want Mourinho.

Yes, because Mourinho is such a compliant and passive figure unlike Rafa 

[cowtownred]

When Rafa mentions 'free' players, he may be talking about:

* potential June 2008 Bosmans

* youngsters poached from Spanish clubs

* young South Americans on loan deals

* European-based players who are available for free for whatever reason, possibly in the January window


It's the last two possibilities that are most intriguing.

This is nothing but idle speculation, but Villareal have a want-away Argentinian who will reportedly move clubs in January for a negligible fee .... where better than Liverpool for him to exorcise his demons from the 2006 Champions League semi than a top Euro club with a burgeoning colony of Argentines?

Listen to what he said.

He is talking about players who are free... ie players that can be signed.  For money if needs be, but players he wants, who will sign, who will better the squad.  First off, Mascherano.

[Art Vandelay]

A certain journo who left the Echo is going pretty big tomorrow on Rafa will end up going and we want Mourinho.

If that happened I would be on a murderous rampage quicker than you can say "Fuck off shitcoat".

[cowtownred]

If that happened I would be on a murderous rampage quicker than you can say "Fuck off shitcoat".

Send me yer mobile no... and arrange our meet.

[MFletcher]

Bascombe is a clown though. I understood his reasons for moving to the NOTW, but some of the s***e he has come out with since starting there has been nothing short of disgraceful.

And the owners are clearly naive. They don't have any experience whatsoever in "soccer" and seem to think that leaving everything until mid-December is acceptable. The CL point is thrown up, but what does a potential two extra games to mean us? What if we go out in the round of 16? Have we really made that much more than if we were knocked out in the group stage? As far as I'm concerned, our transfer budget in January shouldn't hinge on whether we progress into the next round of the CL. Sure it would be worth 3 or 4 million quid. But surely one of the reasons that Moores sold up was to ensure a higher transfer spending for the manager. If guys who have the wealth of Gillett and Hicks aren't able to cover an unexpected cash problem then what the hell are they doing? The stadium appears to be completely financed out of debt, with that entire sum being guaranteed against the club. This was something they explicitly stated they would not do at their original press conference.

Hicks' comments during the week really riled me as well. "That's what we told him and I guess he didn't like that." Arrogant tosser. Of course he's not f***ing happy, He's trying to plan for the future and to improve our club to the point where league titles each year is expected and finishing second would be failure. How can he do that with two hands tied behind his back and a refusal to financially back him until two weeks before the window opens? We could be looking at our third and fourth choice players by that stage.

Hicks and Gillett won me over with their initial press conferences/interview and apparent willingness to back Rafa in the market. I still had suspicions, but they seemed to want to be "custodians". My view now is that the summer spending was nothing that couldn't have been funded under the previous regime - given the CL run and increased TV revenues. If they really think that their statement during the week and Hicks' ridiculous interview in the Echo will make fans side with them then they are sadly mistaken.

I know I sound like an anti-Hicks/Gillett supporter. But if Rafa Benitez - a man who has taken his clubs to two La Liga titles, one UEFA Cup, one Champions League, another Champions League final and an FA Cup - tells me that the new American owners - with zero experience in "soccer" - don't understand the transfer market and need to realise that waiting until mid-December isn't good enough... Well, I'm inclined to believe what Rafa says given that he knows the game and market more intricately than any of us could even pretend.

[Art Vandelay]

Send me yer mobile no... and arrange our meet.

I'll kill the midget canadian one.....you take the big one.

[Walshy7]

A certain journo who left the Echo is going pretty big tomorrow on Rafa will end up going and we want Mourinho.

IF Rafa goes, he would be first on the wanted list, no doubt about it, not mine, but the yanks

[Randy Watson]

Hicks is a twat, I reiterate.

[cowtownred]

Thanks MFletcher,  thats what I wanted to say.

[cowtownred]

I'll kill the midget canadian one.....you take the big one.

 

You're fitter than me.. can't I get the old frail guy?

[MattLFC08]

You're fitter than me.. can't I get the old frail guy?

Ill grab his wallet and then we can sign Kaka

[PLY]

Parry dealing with all parts of the transfer dealings does seem to be a change. Reading between the lines a lot of the more recent transfers have beenn almost totally negotiated initially by Rafa's Chief Scout. I vaguely remember Bascombe alluding to certain Board members(cough Crusty cough) not being very happy with the extent of his involvment.

[12Kings]

the bbc are really full of shite these days ( as much as the rest of em.)
Their headline 'Benitez hits back at club owners'
along with the press conference clip ( which is the one from thurday!)

[chrishughes]

Rafa's frustration is probably with the fact that he was given the funds to get Heinze (which were probably contingent on us advancing past the CL group stage) yet now those funds are possibly not there. H&G are realizing that their "investment" is much costlier because of 1) depleting dollar 2) uprising construction costs of the new Anfield. H&G are much better at playing the PR game than Rafa. They can obviously spin the fact that they have spent more money this summer than any other summer in the clubs history. However, just keep things in perspective. The NET spending is the key # not GROSS spending. Rafa recouped a lot of money in the summer.

[raptor]

Bascombe is a tit and deserves no further mention. If Rafa does end up leaving and Parry, who has lurched from one disaster to another in recent years, stays in a general manager capacity ala american sport then quite frankly Liverpool football club deserves whatever it gets. The Yanks have done nothing to convince me of their ability to run a football club the way our club should be run. We finally get ourselves the right man for the job (one of very few feathers in Parrys cap) and what happens, we try to undermine him the same way he was undermined at Valencia. What's even more disturbing is that some people are actually swallowing this rather than supporting the manager who has put some of the dented pride back into the club.

[filopastry]

If Rafa does end up leaving and Parry, who has lurched from one disaster to another in recent years, stays in a general manager capacity ala american sport then quite frankly Liverpool football club deserves whatever it gets. The Yanks have done nothing to convince me of their ability to run a football club the way our club should be run. We finally get ourselves the right man for the job (one of very few feathers in Parrys cap) and what happens, we try to undermine him the same way he was undermined at Valencia. What's even more disturbing is that some people are actually swallowing this rather than supporting the manager who has put some of the dented pride back into the club.

Nothing to add

[Johnnyboy1973]

Bascombe is a tit and deserves no further mention. If Rafa does end up leaving and Parry, who has lurched from one disaster to another in recent years, stays in a general manager capacity ala american sport then quite frankly Liverpool football club deserves whatever it gets. The Yanks have done nothing to convince me of their ability to run a football club the way our club should be run. We finally get ourselves the right man for the job (one of very few feathers in Parrys cap) and what happens, we try to undermine him the same way he was undermined at Valencia. What's even more disturbing is that some people are actually swallowing this rather than supporting the manager who has put some of the dented pride back into the club.

Redesigning the stadium with the ability to expand it and appointing a commercial director are bloody good moves.

Their transfer policy is laughable though.

[paisley77]

Bascombe is a tit and deserves no further mention. If Rafa does end up leaving and Parry, who has lurched from one disaster to another in recent years, stays in a general manager capacity ala american sport then quite frankly Liverpool football club deserves whatever it gets. The Yanks have done nothing to convince me of their ability to run a football club the way our club should be run. We finally get ourselves the right man for the job (one of very few feathers in Parrys cap) and what happens, we try to undermine him the same way he was undermined at Valencia. What's even more disturbing is that some people are actually swallowing this rather than supporting the manager who has put some of the dented pride back into the club.

Here, here well said. Rafa knows what's needed to win the league and that's why he's doing what he's doing - It makes you despair when we're just starting to look capable of challenging for the league again, and I'll really start to worry about the future of the club if this is the kind of attitude and decision making we can expect from the new owners.

[IloveGuinness17]

Just wondering if the owners want to settle this and look good in front of the press and fans by signing the 3 players, don't know if Mascherano is included,  that Rafa said he wants. A possibility?

[scouse and proud plc.]

Really good support from us for him today, which was right.
Just seen his interview where he referred to us as 'MY FANS', stick by Rafa.

[Le Terrible]

Hicks and Gillette are vindictive cock suckers of the highest order...but they know which side their bread is buttered on.  They won't attempt to fire Benitez in mid-season.

[Guz-kop]

From the Guardian match report :

"His manager felt the same way, though Benitez clearly has no intention of being gagged by Messrs Hicks and Gillet, who have asked him not to talk about possible transfers.

'I am the manager of this club, and the team and the squad is my responsibility,' he said. 'I think everyone involved wants the best for the club, but the Americans do not understand how the transfer window works as well as I do.

'They need to understand how difficult it is to sign players. I was trying to explain, now we try to keep focus and win games. We are trying to do the best for the club. We have targets we need to tie up now, if we don't they are likely to cost us more later. I have been told to concentrate on training the players, and that Rick Parry will be in charge of signing people. I have three targets for January, so we shall see.' "

[rebel23]

December 16th is going to be huge, let them see what the fans think

a day of action beckons

[redway101]

This whole saga is really pissing me off.

We looked really good today, lot's of neat passing and a real threat up front.

If the club has simply come to the conclusion that Rafa maybe has too much on his plate e.g. no assistant and that from now on Parry handles the financial side leaving Rafa to request certain players be brought into the club and also sent packing then that seems perfectly reasonable.

However reading Rafa's comments clearly leads me to suspect that something has changed. I hate to think that Parry is now operating in the role of a sporting director involved in the actual football aspects of transfers. If Rafa is being prevented from offloading players then this looks to be the case.

The only conclusion is that ultimately Rafa will leave.

Hell why not go the whole hog and let Parry pick the side.

[4pool]

Redesigning the stadium with the ability to expand it and appointing a commercial director are bloody good moves.

Their transfer policy is laughable though.

You're right you know...

Their transfer since they took over..

Torres
Babel
Benayoun
Lucas
Leto
Voronin
Itandje
And then there's  Mascherano who came after G&H bought the club..


Along with stocking the youth Academy and reserves:

Insua
Mihaylov
Duran
Simon
Bouzanis
Plessis
Dominguez
Brouwer
Crowther
Gulacsi
Nemeth
Huth

[Degs]

December 16th is going to be huge, let them see what the fans think

a day of action beckons

[Philys]

Parry has always been in charge of buying and selling players

just like Peter Robinson done so before hand, he was often refaired to as the main man at anfield for many years, please correct me if im wrong

[chrishughes]

Too many chefs in the kitchen.......Rafa, Rick Parry, Foster G, George G, Tom Hicks.......what's for dinner?

[Onward Liverpudlian]

I can't help but laugh at the drama queening from Rafa, Hicks/Gillett and some fans. Yes Hicks/Gillett shouldn't be putting statements out on the official site and making things worse - pathetic it was but equally Rafa should keep his mouth shut to the media about anything else but current 'on the pitch' matters. Our great managers of the past dealt with 'on the pitch' stuff and allowed TV Williams/Eric Sawyer and then later John Smith/Peter Robinson to do the capturing of players (as requested by the managers) and dealing with contracts - that's the way it should be today.

[Le Terrible]

But it's not the way it is today. 

Our current owners, executives, manager, coaches and players are egotistical.  Our support has been diluted.  And wishing for it to be the way it used doesn't solve anything or get us anywhere.  Those of us who remember how it was in the good old day need to get over ourselves and put our energies toward figuring out how future trainwrecks like this can be prevented. 

[woof]

Maybe it's a good thing that Parry is the mediator between Rafa and the owners. Rafa & his petulant ways can rub people the wrong way. It's not a good time to have such internal crisis. We're playing reasonably well, haven't got to 5th or 6th gear yet and we're still in CL, FA Cup, Carling Cup and unbeaten in the League. If we hang in there and if our resilience can ride out the whole season, who knows what we can achieve and all this talk of board room spat will be a thing under the bridge and forgotten.

Look at the bigger picture, Rafa, the board and all us supporters

[redmark]

What's even more disturbing is that some people are actually swallowing this rather than supporting the manager who has put some of the dented pride back into the club.

I'll admit to initially being pissed off with Rafa for what seemed to be the juvenile manner this was brought into the public domain, with the "I am focused on training and coaching my team" press conference. I still don't think it was necessarily a wise move on his behalf; what I've read about Hicks doesn't suggest he's going to like an employee taking the piss in public. However, the more detail emerges, the more Rafa's frustration makes sense and the more it seems he thinks going public was necessary - probably not least to gauge and garner the support of the fans in this power struggle. It looks like the positive response has given him the confidence to stoke the fire again after the match.

His comments today have now brought Parry directly into the argument, and in such a way - Parry being responsible for transfers, but there isn't any/enough progress, a clear criticism of that role/individual - as to line it up as Hicks, Gillett and Parry versus Rafa and the fans. I'm not sure he - we - can win that fight: what power do we actually hold? Hicks' comments on Friday were clearly interpreted as a "shut up" message, with Rafa's response being to give more details of the cause of the problem, not shutting up. In Hicks' eyes this is clearly going to be seen as insolence, not something usually tolerated by successful big businessmen.

Very weird feeling currently, just recently becoming more and more confident with Rafa's management showing real signs of progress, yet now he's apparently challenging a couple of hard-headed businessmen to back him or sack him. I've got a horrible feeling that all their business, managerial and political experience points to the wrong outcome.

[redmark]

Maybe it's a good thing that Parry is the mediator between Rafa and the owners.

I think the only certainty of the current mess is that by definition there is no effective mediation between Rafa and the owners; if there was, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

[redmark]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/sport/football.html?in_article_id=496175&in_page_id=1779

But Liverpool's emphatic victory, which maintained their unbeaten start to the Premier League season, might not be enough to keep Benitez in his job as he again hit out at American owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett over his lack of spending power in the January transfer window.

Less than 24 hours after Hicks had told the Spaniard to 'quit talking about new players and coach those he has already',the Spanish manager made no attempt to clear up speculation about his future, pointedly noting the Americans' lack of knowledge about the transfer system in England compared with 'draft' used in the USA.

'We want the best for the club, and because we have been here for a long time, we know what passion means in football in Europe,' said Benitez, after goals by Gerrard, Dirk Kuyt and Ryan Babel earned Liverpool three points. 'We know what the transfer window market means, we know what it means to sign free — and I insist free — players now. I was not asking to spend money.

'They know the manager needs to manage the squad and prepare the squad for this year and for the future. Mr Hicks wants the best for the club, me too,and because I have three years' experience at this club, I know its passion. I know football in Europe — it is not a draft, so you need to sign players, or talk with agents now.'

Benitez's comments will be seen by many as a suicide note.Even his attire, a track suit instead of his normal shirt and tie,was a reminder that he is unhappy at being regarded as 'just as a coach'.

Benitez, who is frustrated at the club failing to sign off a £17 million deal to buy on-loan Javier Mascherano, will be told in three weeks by his American bosses that there will be no money for new players and he must sell to make the Argentine's stay at Anfield permanent.

But he is clearly not in the mood to stay quiet. 'I have been here for three years and I like this club,' he said.

'I will do my best to win games for my supporters, and I think (Mr Hicks) will try to do the same.

'We had a meeting the day of the Arsenal game and it was really, really positive.

After that, something changed. I tried to explain my ideas, but they said: “Rafa, keep focusing on coaching and training because Rick Parry will be in charge of buying and selling players”. So now I will wait and maybe we will lose some targets, but I will try to do my best.

'From Istanbul to Cardiff or Monaco, we have won a lot of trophies and watched a lot of supporters travel with us, so they know what this club means to me. If we do our job properly, they will understand, and I am sure Mr Hicks wants the best for the club. 'I didn't talk about money.

It was the opposite, to bring money back — we have brought £26 million back this year. I am trying to do the best as a manager for my club to bring money back to spend some money on better players, and you can see the value of the squad.

'I think they will understand this. But they say now Rick Parry is in charge of signing and selling players at this moment, so OK, we will see.'

[Bronx Red]

The problem with statements in the press is that ya can't hear the tone off voice , which to me is a main factor . But then when we have fans off our own stirring up shit in the press , who needs enemies

[nayia2002]

doesn't Parry just negotiate the contracts?

[Philys]

Lets put an end to all this shit..where is Foster Gillet who is supposed to be based here, this nugget could have stopped this escallating.. Mascherano needs to be signed, no questions asked, and Rafa is the manager to take us forward..end of.

philys