Author Topic: Aftermath of Euro2008 qualifying  (Read 5604 times)

Offline 4pool

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Re: Aftermath of Euro2008 qualifying
« Reply #40 on: November 22, 2007, 11:57:13 AM »
The only depressing point of them shitheads not qualifying is that I've gotta go on holiday with the missus now :(

Coming to the USA then next summer?















To see the Reds on tour..:P
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Offline RED-EAZY

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Re: Aftermath of Euro2008 qualifying
« Reply #41 on: November 22, 2007, 11:57:53 AM »
the fa in general are a farce, bet the collisium in roma was built quicker then wembley
and when its eventually made the pitch is like a sunday leagues, a massive important game for england and its still got a 20 yard zone on the pitch it winds me up think thats why i have no passion for the england football team. the problems go much higher than mclaren they need a reshuffle at the top but who can sack the barwick becasue he keeps on getting it wrong.
and this complete nonsens of how to improve english football by having 6 english lads in the team, how the fuck will that help the domestic teams in england when it comes down to the champions league the english players are hardly making a good account for the up and coming generation.
so if we want english teams to be not scene in europe when we have climbed back to the top go for it


Jerzy Dudek
3 Steve Finnan
4 Sami Hyypiä
5 Milan Baroš
6 John Arne Riise
7 Harry Kewell
8 Steven Gerrard
10 Luis García
14 Xabi Alonso
21 Djimi Traoré
23 Jamie Carragher
substitutes
20 Scott Carson
9 Djibril Cissé
11 Vladimír Šmicer
16 Dietmar Hamann
17 Josemi
18 Antonio Núñez
25 Igor Bišćan
Coach
Rafael Benítez

X 3 ENGLISH PLAYERS

1 Jens Lehmann
3 Ashley Cole
7 Robert Pirès
8 Fredrik Ljungberg
13 Aleksandr Hleb
14 Thierry Henry
15 Cesc Fabregas
19 Gilberto Silva
23 Sol Campbell
27 Emmanuel Eboué
28 Kolo Abib Touré
substitutes
24 Manuel Almunia
9 José Antonio Reyes
10 Dennis Bergkamp
11 Robin van Persie
16 Mathieu Flamini
20 Philippe Senderos
22 Gaël Clichy
Coach
Arsène Wenger

X 2 ENGLISH PLAYERS


Pepe Reina
3 Steve Finnan
5 Daniel Agger
6 John Arne Riise
8 Steven Gerrard
14 Xabi Alonso
16 Jermaine Pennant
18 Dirk Kuyt
20 Javier Mascherano
23 Jamie Carragher
32 Boudewijn Zenden
substitutes
1 Jerzy Dudek
2 Álvaro Arbeloa
4 Sami Hyypiä
7 Harry Kewell
11 Mark González
15 Peter Crouch
17 Craig Bellamy
Coach

X 4 ENGLISH PLAYERS (not bad)

thought stevie would know this more than any one as well playing in 2 of these games
probably should of put this in the vent your anger thread sorry

We don't need Gerrard against madrid anyway, they are shite

Offline Crosby Nick

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Re: Aftermath of Euro2008 qualifying
« Reply #42 on: November 22, 2007, 11:59:00 AM »
It's not good news for Liverpool. it's good news for Man Utd and Chelsea. not for Liverpool.

How so? Because their England players won't be going either? United will still have off the top of my head: Evra, Van der Saar(?), Roanldo, Nani, Saha so will have just as much scope for picking up injuries/coming back jaded as our players

Offline StevieG26

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Re: Aftermath of Euro2008 qualifying
« Reply #43 on: November 22, 2007, 12:01:45 PM »
So, says the proud footballing nation of Malta.

The thing is, Maltese people give their all during international games but at the end of the day we know we're a shit team with limited resources and limited skills. Then you have England, who think they're this world-class team and such a "Proud footballing nation" (I'm actually quoting McClaren's and some players' words) and that you have this divine right to qualify for tournaments. This was exemplified by the country's treatment of the world-class manager which you had and who always got you in major tournaments, who you forced out because you wanted an English coach.

Well you've had a taste of your own medicine. Russia and Croatia will be going to the finals (probably getting knocked out at the group stages) and the England players will be sitting and watching it all on the telly.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2007, 12:04:13 PM by StevieG26 »
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Offline 4pool

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Re: Aftermath of Euro2008 qualifying
« Reply #44 on: November 22, 2007, 12:05:11 PM »
So who will actually go to Euro 2008 from our squad? If selected of course..

Kuyt and Babel.

Pepe, Torres and Alonso.

Any others?
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Offline StevieG26

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Re: Aftermath of Euro2008 qualifying
« Reply #45 on: November 22, 2007, 12:06:11 PM »
How so? Because their England players won't be going either? United will still have off the top of my head: Evra, Van der Saar(?), Roanldo, Nani, Saha so will have just as much scope for picking up injuries/coming back jaded as our players

The only England internationals we have are Crouch and Gerrard. Carson is out on loan. United have Ferdinand, Brown, Neville and Rooney who would have all be involved. Chelsea have Lampard, Terry, Wright-Phillips, Joe Cole, Ashley Cole and Bridge off the top of my head. You have to be stupid to think that Liverpool will benefit more than these teams.
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Offline Johnnyboy1973

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Re: Aftermath of Euro2008 qualifying
« Reply #46 on: November 22, 2007, 12:08:08 PM »
The thing is, Maltese people give their all during international games but at the end of the day we know we're a shit team with limited resources and limited skills. Then you have England, who think they're this world-class team and such a "Proud footballing nation" (I'm actually quoting McClaren's and some players' words) and that you have this divine right to qualify for tournaments. This was exemplified by the country's treatment of the world-class manager which you had and who always got you in major tournaments, who you forced out because you wanted an English coach.

Well you've had a taste of your own medicine. Russia and Croatia will be going to the finals (probably getting knocked out at the group stages) and the England players will be sitting and watching it all on the telly.

No one thinks they have a god given right and yes the team has world class players. Sven had to go and there was nothing wrong with an England manager.

It just shouldn't have been McNumbnut.

With O'Neill in charge this would never have occurred.

Offline Ken-Obi

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Re: Aftermath of Euro2008 qualifying
« Reply #47 on: November 22, 2007, 12:11:20 PM »
first song at newcastle

"WERE NOT ENGLISH WE ARE SCOUSE"
Does the chorus go

"Thaaaaat's sooooo boringggggg, soooooo borinnnnnngggggg"

like broken record?
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Offline StevieG26

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Re: Aftermath of Euro2008 qualifying
« Reply #48 on: November 22, 2007, 12:14:00 PM »
No one thinks they have a god given right and yes the team has world class players. Sven had to go and there was nothing wrong with an England manager.

It just shouldn't have been McNumbnut.

With O'Neill in charge this would never have occurred.
I'll agree with the second part of your post because I think McClaren was a shit appointment. Smells too much of David Gill and the Manc bias in the country, and it serves them right.

I personally think that O'Neill would've been a decent appointment, but a strong character like Scolari or Hiddink would have been a world-class appointment. I'm not so sure about Mourinho because of the Chelsea connections, but he may be what the nation really needs. Also, if Lippi spoke English I would put him on top of the list. However, with the language barrier, his preference to club management and the English media, I don't think he'll even consider the job.

Regarding your first part, I think the mentality of many England players and staff was that yes, you do have a God-given right to qualify for major tournaments. I remember a member of the staff labelling the group as "easy." I wish I could remember who it was because it really makes me laugh now.
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Offline little ted

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Re: Aftermath of Euro2008 qualifying
« Reply #49 on: November 22, 2007, 12:14:18 PM »
and your 100% certain of that
Concatenation of Confounding Contributions Contributed to this Calamitous Cacophony of Consternation.

The shit hit the fan

Offline Crosby Nick

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Re: Aftermath of Euro2008 qualifying
« Reply #50 on: November 22, 2007, 12:15:06 PM »
The only England internationals we have are Crouch and Gerrard. Carson is out on loan. United have Ferdinand, Brown, Neville and Rooney who would have all be involved. Chelsea have Lampard, Terry, Wright-Phillips, Joe Cole, Ashley Cole and Bridge off the top of my head. You have to be stupid to think that Liverpool will benefit more than these teams.

I'm not saying we'll benefit more than these teams - just that we won't be any worse off as they'll have as many players there as us.

I am quite stupid though!

Offline StevieG26

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Re: Aftermath of Euro2008 qualifying
« Reply #51 on: November 22, 2007, 12:24:03 PM »
I'm not saying we'll benefit more than these teams - just that we won't be any worse off as they'll have as many players there as us.

I am quite stupid though!

So I wasn't referring to you then :P
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Offline stjohns

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Re: Aftermath of Euro2008 qualifying
« Reply #52 on: November 22, 2007, 12:36:10 PM »
If I were a top international manager and not just in it for the dosh I'd think twice about taking the England post if offered.
With the shower of shite you'd have to work with - the FA board and most of the squad -  you're looking at an absolute reputation ruiner.
Pile the English Mediaocre on top of that and there won't be many takers IMO.

Offline Maggie May

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Re: Aftermath of Euro2008 qualifying
« Reply #53 on: November 22, 2007, 12:55:57 PM »
If I were a top international manager and not just in it for the dosh I'd think twice about taking the England post if offered.
With the shower of shite you'd have to work with - the FA board and most of the squad -  you're looking at an absolute reputation ruiner.
Pile the English Mediaocre on top of that and there won't be many takers IMO.

Yep.  Totally agree.  Can't fault a word in that. 
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Offline ollick

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Re: Aftermath of Euro2008 qualifying
« Reply #54 on: November 22, 2007, 01:04:20 PM »
If I were a top international manager and not just in it for the dosh I'd think twice about taking the England post if offered.
With the shower of shite you'd have to work with - the FA board and most of the squad -  you're looking at an absolute reputation ruiner.
Pile the English Mediaocre on top of that and there won't be many takers IMO.

Gotta agree too.
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Offline StevieG26

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Re: Aftermath of Euro2008 qualifying
« Reply #55 on: November 22, 2007, 01:05:11 PM »
If I were a top international manager and not just in it for the dosh I'd think twice about taking the England post if offered.
With the shower of shite you'd have to work with - the FA board and most of the squad -  you're looking at an absolute reputation ruiner.
Pile the English Mediaocre on top of that and there won't be many takers IMO.

This is further exemplified with the terrible treatment that a top-class coach like Eriksson endured. Wherever he went, he's had success, and while he didn't surpass people's expectations in the England job he always got them into the major finals, something which McClaren failed to do at his first attempt, in a group which some players labelled as a relatively easy one.

I'm happy that the people who tried to undermine Eriksson's ability as England coach just because he was foreign have finaly shut up. They're nowhere to be seen now.
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Offline craigyarn

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Re: Aftermath of Euro2008 qualifying
« Reply #56 on: November 22, 2007, 01:10:39 PM »
the terrible treatment that a top-class coach like Eriksson endured.

I'm sure the 4 million per year helped him through it.

I could have got that group of players as far as he did.

Offline NatD

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Re: Aftermath of Euro2008 qualifying
« Reply #57 on: November 22, 2007, 01:18:26 PM »
Er Peter Crouch??, unless your assuming he's not going to be a Liverpool player next summer? but, on last night's performance he was the ONLY England player who played to his potential.

I for one would like 'Big Pete' to still be with us next summer.

Errr....personally I can't see him being here next summer mate!
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Offline carling

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Re: Aftermath of Euro2008 qualifying
« Reply #58 on: November 22, 2007, 01:24:39 PM »
If I were a top international manager and not just in it for the dosh I'd think twice about taking the England post if offered.
With the shower of shite you'd have to work with - the FA board and most of the squad -  you're looking at an absolute reputation ruiner.
Pile the English Mediaocre on top of that and there won't be many takers IMO.

Great post, thinking about it you've got less chance of coming away from that job with a bit of credit than pretty much any other job in the world, and more likely than not be hung drawn and quartered.

Offline StevieG26

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Re: Aftermath of Euro2008 qualifying
« Reply #59 on: November 22, 2007, 01:38:12 PM »
I'm sure the 4 million per year helped him through it.

I could have got that group of players as far as he did.

And yet the English coach your country drooled about didn't even get them qualified.

My point exactly...
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Offline jonesyb

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Re: Aftermath of Euro2008 qualifying
« Reply #60 on: November 22, 2007, 01:40:57 PM »
If I were a top international manager and not just in it for the dosh I'd think twice about taking the England post if offered.
With the shower of shite you'd have to work with - the FA board and most of the squad -  you're looking at an absolute reputation ruiner.
Pile the English Mediaocre on top of that and there won't be many takers IMO.

If you think the FA are bad you havent seen the circus that is the FAI. Imagine hiring a guy to look after an international side on his very first job. Just mind boggling. Too afraid of spending the money on someone decent.

It will be a long time before Stevie Finnan sees the finals of an international competition
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Offline scousepaw

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Re: Aftermath of Euro2008 qualifying
« Reply #61 on: November 22, 2007, 01:43:08 PM »
no tactical awareness, no real technical ability, no ideas.  and that's just the players.
all of those croatia lads looked so comfortable with the ball, something which the england players seem incapable of.
the game in this country is based upon desire, energy, commitment and athleticism, so until you start changing an entire footballing culture this is just going to keep on happening.

Offline ollick

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Re: Aftermath of Euro2008 qualifying
« Reply #62 on: November 22, 2007, 01:52:38 PM »
And yet the English coach your country drooled about didn't even get them qualified.

My point exactly...

Scolari?  No fucker in their right mind wanted McClaren he was just, ironically, seen as the safe bet once the media hounded Scolari out of the running.  Personally I think the FA should look at the top five English managers in the country and either nominate them or get them to advise who should be shortlisted.
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Offline craigyarn

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Re: Aftermath of Euro2008 qualifying
« Reply #63 on: November 22, 2007, 01:53:12 PM »
And yet the English coach your country drooled about didn't even get them qualified.

My point exactly...

Drooled about?

I think after 5 years of Sven, the majority of people wanted to see an English manager, yes. But I doubt it was for the xenophobic reason which you're implying.

Obviously now, and in smug hindsight, Mclaren was out of his depth, but don't start using that to make out Sven was anything more than average considering the time in the job and players he had at his disposal.

Qualification and QF's is the least we could have expected.

Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: Aftermath of Euro2008 qualifying
« Reply #64 on: November 22, 2007, 02:26:05 PM »
It has to start from the ground-up with an entire generational and cultural shift in how football should be played, learned and viewed. Look at Holland. Small country of around sixteen million with little or no space available to play football. Yet, they consistently produce a competitive squad. Why? Because there is an emphasis on working within this tight space on developing basic attributes of skill, tactical awareness, retention, passing and technique. Due to a lack of finances, clubs actively foster a policy of youth development. Furthermore experienced players are actively encouraged to stay in the game and earnestly want to compete for positions beginning with youth squads.

The F.A don't need to necessarily re-invent the wheel, they just have to take the wheel into modernity. The long-term scope should be a cultural revolution with an increase in quality coaching that emphasizes skill over strength; brain over brawn. The immediate short-term impact is that the F.A should clean house and bring in a world-class candidate who is going to be foreign (and yes that includes Martin O' Neill). However, if I were Brian Barwick this morning, I'd only be looking at the following: Capello, Lippi and Hiddink.

As likeable as O'Neill is, I don't think he'd take England to the next level. Sure he'd satisfy the Ingerlund brigade's desire for a British manager, but I think the English national team need an outside influence. Yes, England had a foreign manager in Sven, but how technically and culturally different is Scandinavian football than English football? Under Eriksson, England played almost a defensive variant of route one football. There was no emphasis on patience, retention and passing.  Although, Mourinho- like O'Neill- could motivate the players and get them to respond, I think his tactical one-sidedness could be a flaw on the international circuit.  Additionally, if anyone has actually watched Portugal's qualification run they would automatically exclude Scolari, who has seemingly lost the plot and is probably going to be dropped by Portugal post-tournament anyway. And as for Klinsmann as enjoyable as his German team were at the World Cup, I would think the English public would not take to a German managing the national team.

Capello, Hiddink and Lippi are all about results and performance, not reputation. They wouldn't pander to the media or the public, they would simple get the best out of the players at hand, which in the short-term is what England need. But also, I think they would bring something fresh to the English game. But as far as the long-term vision goes of creating innovative, patient players, I think Martin Samuel has hit the nail on the head with this one.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote
This morning I would like to challenge Sir Trevor Brooking, and everybody involved in the organisation of youth football in this country, to a game. One condition: new rules.

The goal will be 3.057 metres high, which equates to more than 10ft, roughly one and two thirds the size of Paul Robinson, making it physically impossible to touch the bar from a standing jump. (When the Australian security forces erected a fence to protect the world leaders attending the APEC conference in Sydney this year, it was three metres high.)

The goalline will be 9.174 metres long (about 30ft) or almost five Scott Carsons laying head to toe. A goalkeeper standing in the middle would have to dive almost five metres to get his body behind the ball and adequately protect inside his posts; the present width of the whole goal is 7.32 metres.

The length of the pitch will be 150.4 metres (165 yards), placing the halfway line at 75 metres. Using these dimensions, for a goalkeeper to get the ball out of his half from a grounded goal kick, he would have to clear, without bouncing, to the midway point of the opposition half with pitch measurements as they are now. The edge of the penalty area will be extended to 20.68 metres (23 yards), almost a third again on the present space, and the width of the pitch will be 112.80 metres (124 yards), which is a greater expanse than the length of most present pitches. Everything else will be the same, including the number of players and the duration of the match.

And when this travesty of a game is finished, when everybody is exhausted and fed up and utterly frustrated with demands that are at odds with the strength of the human body and the fundamental skill-based nature of the sport, then, and only then, will we comprehend what it is like to play football as a ten-year-old in England.

At this point we may begin to realise why Blame Steve McClaren or unmotivated players for England’s shambolic path to Euro 2008 if you like, but the reason standards in English football are in decline stems directly from what we see on our parks and school fields every weekend: ten-year-old boys on a full-size pitch.

That is the problem. Not John Terry’s £135,000 a week or McClaren’s 3-5-2. You want to talk numbers, I’ve got some crackers right here: the average height of a ten-year-old boy is 4ft 7in and the height of Petr Cech, the Chelsea goalkeeper, is 6ft 5in and they are required to guard the same target and kick the same distance. And we wonder why we can’t play like the Brazilians.

The pitch dimensions for my challenge match with Brooking were not plucked out of the air. They were expanded, by ratio, so that adults could enjoy the same competitive experience as children. The idea came from a friend of mine, Ray Lee, who has worked in youth football all his life. His suggestion was to take an average ten-year-old, place him on a full-size pitch and then expand that space in proportion, to equate to the size of the average man. The playing surface filled an area of 16,800 metres. What do they say about a good midfield player covering every blade of grass? A good polo pony would struggle with that space.

In most counties, seven-a-side mini-soccer ends in the final year of junior school, at which point the under11 age group converts to football as it is played by grown-ups. Team numbers are the same and, most importantly, so are pitch measurements. As in discount clothing stores, one size fits all. The reason English football has a tradition of brick outhouse central defenders who cannot pass and perpetual motion machines in midfield without an ounce of the class of Cesc Fàbregas is because our youth football is geared to little else.

If you are big you go at the back because you can kick it a long way and on an adult pitch, unless someone can hoof it to safety, a team can get boxed in defending their penalty area with no end in sight until the inevitable goal is scored. The ability to cover a ludicrously vast distance, box to box, is obviously essential for a midfield player, so the game favours long-legged cross-country runners, not tidy little ball players.

And then every two years, when the national team exit a tournament after losing to the first good technical team they play, we go into anguished inquests about our lack of skill and talk about quotas of foreign players and pride and passion, and all of those other red herrings, and never once think that the answer is under our noses and it is 4ft tall standing in an 8ft goal.

I watched an under11 district game on Saturday that was everything that is wrong with youth football in England. Brent versus Redbridge in the cup. There were some lovely players on both teams. Good, skilful boys with good, basic technique and some bright ideas about passing and movement, too. At half-time the score was 1-0 to Brent and Redbridge had been slightly the better team, but as the game wore on conditions took their toll.

When youth football is warped by its adult setting, over time it favours the strongest physical players and Brent had some very athletic boys. Tall, physically imposing and nice footballers. Redbridge could not get it out of their half. At this age, a goal kick is an advantage to the opposition; better than a corner, really, because all the defenders have their back to the play, all the attackers are facing it and the goalkeeper cannot clear the 30-metre distance to safety.

The game becomes a siege (and this is before the really wet weather hits, when it becomes as much fun as the retreat from Moscow). And as the goals go in, which they will do because anything high or near a post is impossible to save, which is why Michael Owen scored 79 goals in one season at the age of 11, so one side become more dispirited. Final score: Brent 6 Redbridge 0. And it started off a close game. Brent would probably have shaded it, whatever the location, but why such a huge difference by the end? The size of the task. It wears them down. It saps the strength, it strangles their skill. My lad can’t make it this week. He has an 11-plus examination. I’m hoping he’ll get more enjoyment from it.

I have another lad playing under12 football. This season a new team joined his competition. Massive kids, lots of attitude. I had them marked down as the league winners before a ball was kicked and after seven games they are two points clear. It is a power game for the preteens. And then, later in life, when everybody can wallop the ball a long way and chase it down, the sport becomes skill-based once more, except by that time we are lagging behind as a nation because we have focused all our efforts on the art of a panic-stricken clearance into touch to release the pressure.

Bring in the pitch boundaries, make the goals smaller and compulsorily cut the number of players in each team to nine until the age of 14. Games of this nature produce more scoring chances, more passes, more goals, better dribbling and more opportunities one on one. Better skill all round, in fact.

When youth coaches at Ajax first assess groups of young players, they make them dribble a ball around a square. Gradually the perimeter of the area is reduced until they can see who really knows how to control it. Then they make their selection and begin to look at other attributes. At our district trials, 75 youngsters played a series of games on a full-size pitch.

The FA is awash with money, we are told, so let it spearhead this revolution. It can be done. It is argued that schools and parks do not have the space to construct separate nine-a-side venues, but that is a weak, lazy excuse. They do not need more land. Paint the markings of the children’s pitch inside the adult pitch in a different colour (red would stand out in all seasons). No confusion there. Children and adults regularly play on ball courts and in indoor gyms that contain the field boundaries for several sports (basketball, netball, hockey, tennis), without becoming disoriented.

Brooking, the FA’s director of football development, continues to talk a good game, but where is the action? Skills programmes with supermarket sponsors do not even scratch the surface. It is the match that is the problem, not the training. There was plenty of raw talent in that district game, plenty of tricks and flicks and eye-of-the-needle passes. English children are not born with less skill than those in Spain or France. It is battered out of them by the circumstances in which they are forced to play.

If you want to know why we are a nation on tenterhooks about tonight’s match against Croatia, go to the park with a few mates, mark out an area the size of a modern hypermarket, including service and delivery space, with a bungalow at each end to act as the goals and away you go. Then you will see football through the eyes of a ten-year-old. And you may rather want to spend the weekend in front of Nickelodeon, too.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/columnists/martin_samuel/article2910642.ece

« Last Edit: November 22, 2007, 02:29:31 PM by rafathegaffa83 »

Offline StevieG26

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Re: Aftermath of Euro2008 qualifying
« Reply #65 on: November 22, 2007, 02:34:28 PM »
It has to start from the ground-up with an entire generational and cultural shift in how football should be played, learned and viewed. Look at Holland. Small country of around sixteen million with little or no space available to play football. Yet, they consistently produce a competitive squad. Why? Because there is an emphasis on working within this tight space on developing basic attributes of skill, tactical awareness, retention, passing and technique. Due to a lack of finances, clubs actively foster a policy of youth development. Furthermore experienced players are actively encouraged to stay in the game and earnestly want to compete for positions beginning with youth squads.

The F.A don't need to necessarily re-invent the wheel, they just have to take the wheel into modernity. The long-term scope should be a cultural revolution with an increase in quality coaching that emphasizes skill over strength; brain over brawn. The immediate short-term impact is that the F.A should clean house and bring in a world-class candidate who is going to be foreign (and yes that includes Martin O' Neill). However, if I were Brian Barwick this morning, I'd only be looking at the following: Capello, Lippi and Hiddink.

As likeable as O'Neill is, I don't think he'd take England to the next level. Sure he'd satisfy the Ingerlund brigade's desire for a British manager, but I think the English national team need an outside influence. Yes, England had a foreign manager in Sven, but how technically and culturally different is Scandinavian football than English football? Under Eriksson, England played almost a defensive variant of route one football. There was no emphasis on patience, retention and passing.  Although, Mourinho- like O'Neill- could motivate the players and get them to respond, I think his tactical one-sidedness could be a flaw on the international circuit.  Additionally, if anyone has actually watched Portugal's qualification run they would automatically exclude Scolari, who has seemingly lost the plot and is probably going to be dropped by Portugal post-tournament anyway. And as for Klinsmann as enjoyable as his German team were at the World Cup, I would think the English public would not take to a German managing the national team.

Capello, Hiddink and Lippi are all about results and performance, not reputation. They wouldn't pander to the media or the public, they would simple get the best out of the players at hand, which in the short-term is what England need. But also, I think they would bring something fresh to the English game. But as far as the long-term vision goes of creating innovative, patient players, I think Martin Samuel has hit the nail on the head with this one.
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http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/columnists/martin_samuel/article2910642.ece



:lmao!

The Brazilians play football in the street with rubbish bins as goalposts for fucks' sake!! :lmao

Excuses, excuses excuses.

The truth is that the country which invented football still hasn't learnt how to play it.
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Bill Shankly.

Offline Salty Dog

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Re: Aftermath of Euro2008 qualifying
« Reply #66 on: November 22, 2007, 02:34:55 PM »
Too many people, in their dismissals of Sven, use this line:

Obviously now, and in smug hindsight, Mclaren was out of his depth, but don't start using that to make out Sven was anything more than average considering the time in the job and players he had at his disposal.

Qualification and QF's is the least we could have expected.

There are two things that this line of thinking dismisses.  First, the teams Sven had were full of quality players, but any and all quality players in England are overhyped.  And Secondly, a squad of quality players does not a good team make.  You have to set up your resources properly to get the best out of them, and you have to get them to play for each other or else you just have a collection of talented individuals but not a team.  Sven's tactical nous is proven, as is his ability to lead groups of talented individuals and inspire them to play for each other.  Maybe Sven could have taken them farther, but it's not his fault England are shit at penos now is it ;)
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Offline Le Terrible

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Re: Aftermath of Euro2008 qualifying
« Reply #67 on: November 22, 2007, 02:39:38 PM »
So who will actually go to Euro 2008 from our squad? If selected of course..

Kuyt and Babel.

Pepe, Torres and Alonso.

Any others?

I very much doubt Kuyt will still be in the Dutch set up by next summer.  He's been found out.  Babel, perhaps as a prospect from the bench.  Reina as a reserve keeper.  Torres, for sure.  Alonso?  If only the Basques could bomb their way to Independence between then and now, he wouldn't have to be involved. 

Still I am looking forward to seeing the Spanish finally win this thing again.  I think they will.  The Russians should be further along and hard to beat under Hiddink.  The Romanians promise to be fruity.  The French have added edgy, sharp North Africans teens into their mix.  They should be fun to watch.  The Turks will smoke bombs, fire crackers and fit birds.  I am glad there are involved, especially for the all migrants who missed them in Germany.

We shouldn't forget the African, American and Asian lads will be involved in various World Cup qualifiers.  Two of our best players in Mascherano and Kewell will be exposed next summer.

What this means is that we need to push on with the sale of those whose values will plummet after next summer.  Carson's value is now going South.  Crouch will not involved with England again.  Riise is another we should look to move now while some think he has something to offer.  Benitez needs to grip now and get ready for the January sales.

Online ALPH1217

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Re: Aftermath of Euro2008 qualifying
« Reply #68 on: November 22, 2007, 02:40:23 PM »
And yet the English coach your country drooled about didn't even get them qualified.

My point exactly...
Let me get this straight. You're suggesting that people in England were "drooling" over the appointment of Steve Mc Laren? I must have missed this.

Offline craigyarn

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Re: Aftermath of Euro2008 qualifying
« Reply #69 on: November 22, 2007, 02:45:36 PM »
Secondly, a squad of quality players does not a good team make.  You have to set up your resources properly to get the best out of them, and you have to get them to play for each other or else you just have a collection of talented individuals but not a team.

That's where the manager and his 4 million a year comes in. Maybe you missed that part.

Offline Salty Dog

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Re: Aftermath of Euro2008 qualifying
« Reply #70 on: November 22, 2007, 02:50:39 PM »
That's where the manager and his 4 million a year comes in. Maybe you missed that part.

I wouldn't suggest that Sven was overpaid.  And I wouldn't fault him for taking the money.  The FA should probably have learned by now that throwing money at symptoms of a deeper problem will never cut to the core of the problem, only serve as makeup and temporarily cover any blemishes.
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Offline craigyarn

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Re: Aftermath of Euro2008 qualifying
« Reply #71 on: November 22, 2007, 02:52:57 PM »
You seem to be excusing Sven for not getting the best out of a squad of quality players.


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Re: Aftermath of Euro2008 qualifying
« Reply #72 on: November 22, 2007, 02:54:02 PM »
England played absolute shite last nite ,worst game i've ever been too ,crouch and shaun wright philips were made to look totaly useless when it was obvious it was the formation and tactics that where to blame ,glad maclaren has gone he was a shit footballer and now a shit manager...and i'm  glad in a way jamie told em where to shove it ,maybe under a diff regeme he might play for em again ?

Offline trezax

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Re: Aftermath of Euro2008 qualifying
« Reply #73 on: November 22, 2007, 02:54:03 PM »
Absolutely fucking stunning !! I don't know what more can i say as it sums up why i created the "Foreign quotas ... what's the cure ?" thread, and why i found the England national team so awful.
But i did not know that under 11s players played in a full senior pitch, absolutely nonsense !!!

Offline Salty Dog

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Re: Aftermath of Euro2008 qualifying
« Reply #74 on: November 22, 2007, 02:55:53 PM »
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/columnists/martin_samuel/article2910642.ece

I like this article because it shows that at least one journo out there actually uses his noodle to write an opinion piece, as opposed to most other reptiles who just practice the sacred art of "lazy journalism" ::)
"If you play in the final, it's for winning, not for losing."
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Offline craigyarn

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Re: Aftermath of Euro2008 qualifying
« Reply #75 on: November 22, 2007, 03:05:37 PM »
On occasions like this we always hear stuff about "deep rooted" problems, poor coaching at youth level, technique, etc, and yet wasn't that long ago that everyone was in a frenzy about the blossoming talent coming through our systems.

The reality is we've produced some great players over the last 10 years, and still are, but we've hired poor managers who can't mould a winning formula, which is not easy by any means, especially with the amount of games top modern players play. Look at technically gifted countries like Spain who can't buy a major title despite all that quality.

It's a cop out, basically. We have the players and infastructure in place, but lack the management, desire and mentality.

Offline Salty Dog

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Re: Aftermath of Euro2008 qualifying
« Reply #76 on: November 22, 2007, 03:06:11 PM »
You seem to be excusing Sven for not getting the best out of a squad of quality players.



I wouldn't call it excusing him.  I never felt that England deserved much more than Sven delivered.  Arguably they could have reached SFs, but he's not the one taking penos.  But they were never good enough to either make it to the final, let alone win the whole tournament.

Quality players, yes.  But the limits of these players are all too obvious, and a manager who gets as little time with his players as national team managers do, compared to club managers, will never be able to coach out the bad habits these players have developed over the course of their careers.
"If you play in the final, it's for winning, not for losing."
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Offline craigyarn

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Re: Aftermath of Euro2008 qualifying
« Reply #77 on: November 22, 2007, 03:11:23 PM »
I wouldn't call it excusing him.  I never felt that England deserved much more than Sven delivered.  Arguably they could have reached SFs, but he's not the one taking penos.  But they were never good enough to either make it to the final, let alone win the whole tournament.

Quality players, yes.  But the limits of these players are all too obvious, and a manager who gets as little time with his players as national team managers do, compared to club managers, will never be able to coach out the bad habits these players have developed over the course of their careers.

You have me baffled, I'm afraid. Quality players but limited?

As for your penno theory; we wouldn't have needed them if he possesed the sufficient tactical nous and the balls to pick the right team, not one on reputations.


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Re: Aftermath of Euro2008 qualifying
« Reply #78 on: November 22, 2007, 03:46:49 PM »
As Motson and his In Studio cronies raved about Crouch's fantastic goal, all I could see was - he had plenty of time and space to bring down that ball, but he still only really got the touch on it because of his inspector gadget legs.
 

don't really follow that. isn't that like saying "pah another terrible ball won in the air by mascherano, he only met it with his head cleanly because he's shorter than average, otherwise it would have hit him on the chin"

you can't really criticise someone for playing to their body's capacity.
Andy @ About-turn Re:Kuyt as a winger? Reply on:September 18, 2008 
I said that I could see him getting 10 goals and 10 assists.
erm, you didn't...
Andy @ About-turn Re: Kuyt and Babel Reply on:July 24, 2008
yes, I really believe that it's possible he could get 20 goals in all competitions - and 20 assists doesn't look out of the question either

Online MagicHat

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Re: Aftermath of Euro2008 qualifying
« Reply #79 on: November 22, 2007, 04:08:37 PM »
You seem to be excusing Sven for not getting the best out of a squad of quality players.



second round players at best, he got them further then that, 4 million perhaps a bit too much but he is a very good manager. He did very well with a bunch of overatted hoofers

Not like he had anyone compared to Cesc, Hleb, Zidane, Ronaldo, Henry in his squad, that my friend is what most of us look quality.

Quote
On occasions like this we always hear stuff about "deep rooted" problems, poor coaching at youth level, technique, etc, and yet wasn't that long ago that everyone was in a frenzy about the blossoming talent coming through our systems.

do the press every admit our squad sucks? Even if we were bottom team in football, the next generation would all be better then Zidane

Quote
The reality is we've produced some great players over the last 10 years, and still are

name them