Topic: Premiership Matches weekend 10-11-12/Nov discussion thread

[gritsvanilla]

I'll side with the scousers on this one.

Arsenal, you've won fuck all with your current side and bleat on like you've won the fucking lot just because you've made a decent start to this season. You've had the easiest fixtures and the four tricky games you've had (Blackburn, Spurs, Liverpool and Man Utd) you've only won one game. Your fixture list is very difficult from the end of November untill January. You have a run of 8 difficult games. If you're still within 6 points of the leaders after those then I'll take you seriusly.

Another thing that gets me with Arsenal and all thier fans is they think they invented good attacking football. I suggest you look at the Liverpool team of the late 80's, the United sides of the 90's and in recent years Barcelona before you start talking as if you're the only side to play good football.

Untill you win either the title or CL with your current side you should keep your gobs firmly shut.

I'm not in the habit of congratulating Mancs but that's a great post mate and absolutely spot on, at the mo you'd be convinced we were witnessing the second coming of Brazil 70 (or at least Holland 74) the way the press are falling over themselves over Arsenal's start, i've said it time and time again out of the top 4 Arsenal have the weakest squad and it will be more than interesting to see how they'd cope with the loss of say 3 or 4 of thier top players, you know like Liverpool, Man U and Chelsea have all had to at various stages this season. Man U themselves had a similar run of good luck last season and only late on did they suffer those kinds of injuries but fair play to them they never "cracked", i'm not as easily convinced Arsenal would be the same under such circumstances.

[GoonerD]

My god,

some of you scousers are great sportsman - fair play to that.

And some are just a bunch of bitter f*cks (no offense) still mumbling about "If we had won at Anfield few weeks ago".

Just get over it.

As a Gooner, I am not saying, that we will finish above LFC - how can I?  But how the f*ck do you get the confidence of claiming "I am sure we will finish above Arsenal?".

Further, it's a bit funny seeing some of you replicating THE SUN's (and other tabloids) "English player" debate.  What an irony.

All that "my balls are bigger than yours" bullshit is just boring, really.  Move on.

[¡Basta Ya!]

I'll side with the scousers on this one.

Arsenal, you've won fuck all with your current side and bleat on like you've won the fucking lot just because you've made a decent start to this season. You've had the easiest fixtures and the four tricky games you've had (Blackburn, Spurs, Liverpool and Man Utd) you've only won one game. Your fixture list is very difficult from the end of November untill January. You have a run of 8 difficult games. If you're still within 6 points of the leaders after those then I'll take you seriusly.

Another thing that gets me with Arsenal and all thier fans is they think they invented good attacking football. I suggest you look at the Liverpool team of the late 80's, the United sides of the 90's and in recent years Barcelona before you start talking as if you're the only side to play good football.

Untill you win either the title or CL with your current side you should keep your gobs firmly shut.

Harsh, but fair.

Although Liverpool haven't won the league in recent years, we have won everything else - we know we haven't won the league, and that hurts. But there are people on this board that know full well what it takes to win the league and people that can't have watched the fights between united and Arsenal for the title(which United convincingly won).

It's just to early. The league will take shape over the next 10-15 games but my guess is there will still be at least three teams in the hunt after that.

[MagicHat]

It's a bit like saying a club like Spurs are chokers...

but they are, the one time they could have got ahead of us since Arsene came to the club, they blew it with a second half of the season collapse. Then there was 2-0 up against our reserves in a semi and blowing it.

So you thought you were realistically going to challenge before your good start to the season? I don't think even the most optimistic Gooner would readily admit that without looking ridiculous

I did, last season we quite simply made errors at the back and missed chances for the most part, I thought Arsene would sort that out and he has. Did I think we would win it? No and I still don't but I thought we would be in the chase

That's it.

Technically Gallas has won the English league, think he deserves that little piece of credit

Arsenal wont lose many players to the ANC - only Toure and Eboue I think as Adebayor has retired hasn't he?

He came back but Togo didn't qualify

"It will be interesting to see how well they perform when they lose a few key players and face more tricky matches."

Gallas, Van Persie, Jens, Ade and Gilberto, key players have been missing due to injury but we got by fine. Jens and Gilberto will win their places back, they are two brilliant players whereas Flamini and Almunia are squad players. We have played Man U, Liverpool away, Portsmouth, Blackburn away, Spurs away, Sunderland can be tricky, away to West Ham which we always lose, on form Man City and Sevilla. Now I agree we have some real difficult away games to come and we will lose more injuries, we certainly won't get a clear picture of who is and isn't in the race at the end of Jan but any of the big four could be in it or out of it.

Another thing that gets me with Arsenal and all thier fans is they think they invented good attacking football. I suggest you look at the Liverpool team of the late 80's, the United sides of the 90's and in recent years Barcelona before you start talking as if you're the only side to play good football.

You forgot Ajax and Brazil. I agree with Cesc when he says he can't be great as he has only won a single cup so far with Arsenal and that till the team are winning things, any calls of us being a great team is false. Pretty and capable of playing great football sure but greatness needs being able to get points away to horrible teams like Blackburn consistently.

Now onto the game.

Good result but Reading disappointed, they are a good side who play good football but 4-5-1 with Doyle up front was an error, he can't hold the ball up well enough. They looked the better side going forward for most of the first half and felt that had it been Liverpool/Bolton/Chelsea anyone but us at the moment, the commentators wouldn't have been so certain Arsenal would score or so insulting of Reading. The first goal was lucky in the end, Flamini's effort taking a helpful deflection but that lead was important as it forced Reading to gamble so allowing us to pick them off on the counter attack.

Thanks to Ade who hasn't played like that since Van Persie got injured and Hleb, we got the victory and in second half we humiliated them till we got 3-0 up. Credit to Reading for making a late fightback, hitting post twice with Almunia beaten and being troublesome but we deserved the win.

[stmichael]

Arsenal haven't always played good football and the score line 1-0 was made for them.

When Wenger was appointed manager of Arsenal he had a long term plan of turning them into one of the top sides in English football.

He was successful straight away and this allowed him to start his strategy of signing young and talented players for the club who he could bring through the ranks and into the first team after x amount of years. A fine example is Fabregas who has been there for about 5 years or so.

This has now enabled him to have the fast, passing team he has now. They play some superb attacking football and this is testament to both Wenger for sticking with his philosophy and for the Arsenal board for allowing the manager to continue with his ideas even when over the last two seasons they have barely qualified for the Champs Lge.

What Arsene Wenger has done for Arsenal is exactly what Rafa Benitez is trying to do at Liverpool.

We have signed some very good youngsters and we are the current Youth Cup holders for the last two seasons. There is nothing to suggest we cant make that three.

The grass always seems greener on the other side but Arsenal are at least four years further down the road in their development as a football team but as long as we are patient we will get there.

Patient, that's a word the modern football fan doesn't understand but hopefully our board will be patient with Rafa and allow him his long term plan of Liverpool Football Club playing the kind of football that you see Arsenal play now.

Before anyone says Rafa is too defensive to play that kind of football i would suggest you search on YouTube for videos of when he was the manager of Valencia and see what that team was capable of.

[AFCFan]

Really, you couldn't make it up..

Liverpool are in a UEFA cup spot, Arsenal are top so.... "it's only November, nothing is won in November"

Liverpool are top after just a couple of games and have just crushed Derby 6-0... "Will you cry when we bring home number 19"

Arsenal fans are not getting carried away trust me, you won't find many gooners saying "it is our year", just remember that we cannot help what the media are writing about us.

[Tommy_W]

An injury to Fabregas and Arsenal can kiss their title challenge goodbye IMO. He makes them tick. They look pretty average when he isn't playing

[AFCFan]

An injury to Fabregas and Arsenal can kiss their title challenge goodbye IMO. He makes them tick. They look pretty average when he isn't playing

Hang on a minute.... jesus that sounds familiar? 

That's right, wasn't that what Spurz fans (constantly) said about another one of our ex-players?

Trust me, even without Cesc we wouldn't be struggling to get in the top half of the league. 

[¡Basta Ya!]

Really, you couldn't make it up..

Liverpool are in a UEFA cup spot, Arsenal are top so.... "it's only November, nothing is won in November"

Yes, and it's exactly right to say that. If we win our games in hand (that's liverpool and arsenal) we will be 3rd, 3 points behind united and you will be 1st, 3 points in front. That's far too tight to judge anything. Especially with Arsenal having a tough run of away games to come.

For every Liverpool fan that said (in seriousness) that "Will you cry when we bring home number 19" I'll find you 5 that said the opposite.

You're talking balls, it's way to early regardless of who is at the top.

[AFCFan]

it's way to early regardless of who is at the top.

Absolutely spot on. Any Arsenal fan that thinks it is in the bag is stupid, but personally I have yet to meet one who thinks it, some will I expect as every club has it's morons.

We are not even playing that well to be honest, but we are beating the smaller sides (no disrespect to them) which is something we have struggled to do in the past couple of seasons.

[stmichael]

An injury to Fabregas and Arsenal can kiss their title challenge goodbye IMO. He makes them tick. They look pretty average when he isn't playing

Arsenal would still be a passing team without Fabregas but they would be weaker without him.

Over the last 8 weeks take away the goals Fabregas has scored and you would notice a difference. That is about the time we have had to do without Alonso.

Imagine Arsenal without Gallas or Toure and see how they would struggle.

Arsenal were within 9 minutes of losing to us. They were within about 30 seconds of losing to Man Utd.

They are not the unbeatable machine everyone thinks they are and for me are just one possibly two injuries from been a far weaker team.

[Tommy_W]

Trust me, even without Cesc we wouldn't be struggling to get in the top half of the league. 

I didn't say you would - I said it would scupper your title challenge.

[MagicHat]

Imagine Arsenal without Gallas or Toure and see how they would struggle.

You mean how we missed Gallas (and part way through Senderos) against Man City, Sparta, Portsmouth, Spurs, Sevilla, Derby ( ), West Ham, Steaua Bucharest, Sunderland?

Cesc goes, Denilson can step in and do a good job, what I worry about is when Hleb goes as he has been key for us. Arsenal have suffered injuries to key players but still so far managed to struggle on.

[canyouhackett]

I'm not in the habit of congratulating Mancs but that's a great post mate and absolutely spot on, at the mo you'd be convinced we were witnessing the second coming of Brazil 70 (or at least Holland 74) the way the press are falling over themselves over Arsenal's start, i've said it time and time again out of the top 4 Arsenal have the weakest squad and it will be more than interesting to see how they'd cope with the loss of say 3 or 4 of thier top players, you know like Liverpool, Man U and Chelsea have all had to at various stages this season. Man U themselves had a similar run of good luck last season and only late on did they suffer those kinds of injuries but fair play to them they never "cracked", i'm not as easily convinced Arsenal would be the same under such circumstances.

Last season we never really had the squad and we were lucky Ronaldo, Scholes and Rooney didn't miss many games. Towards the end of the season when we had Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra and Neville out and players like Ronaldo and Giggs were suffering because they were playing in every game we were very close to breaking. Actually at half time at Everton I thought we had blown it. The table will show we won the title by a fair few points but the truth is we just limped over the line and it was mainly down to mental strength.

Arsenal don't have that and that's why I'm more worried about Liverpool than them because despite injuries and poor form you've battled away and and ground out the results and are only 6 behind us with some winnable games coming up.

[TipTopKop]

I'd like to once again say, unequivocally, should we fail to win the league, I wish for Chelsea to win it, time and again, as my wish has been since Abramovich took over and made them into serious contenders.

This because if it's one thing I can't stand more than the "ooooh la la la we're so va va voom but should the games not go our way then we'll dive and feign injury and sulk" gunners, it's the old Manc enemy who are celebrating their league title like mad because they seem to realise they're reaching the end of their glory.

Rant over.

[MagicHat]

You mean those nice Chelsea players who abuse ref's, hack and dive? Good to know that they are such morale crusaders TipTop

[TipTopKop]

they are no angels to be sure, but you see something for so long, it kind of makes you sick, many people were sick of us in the 70's/80's, they're a fresh face, a new club almost, and given the alternative, I'll choose them each time I'm afraid.

[canyouhackett]

I'd like to once again say, unequivocally, should we fail to win the league, I wish for Chelsea to win it, time and again, as my wish has been since Abramovich took over and made them into serious contenders.

This because if it's one thing I can't stand more than the "ooooh la la la we're so va va voom but should the games not go our way then we'll dive and feign injury and sulk" gunners, it's the old Manc enemy who are celebrating their league title like mad because they seem to realise they're reaching the end of their glory.

Rant over.

In 2003 you might have had a point but the future is very bright at United. Having watched all our great sides take shape I think this will be the best by some way. Of course it will have to carrying on delievering the goods on the pitch but I'm confident over the next 6 years it will win a hell of a lot.

The signings to replace Giggs and Scholes were always going to be hard but in Nani and Anderson I think we've done very very well. The importing thing is both have a season or two to settle in but to their credit they've done so well they're pushing for a start now.

[flying red]

I watched Reading v Arsenal on Setanta last night.  Am I the only one who found it boring watching Arsenal players strolling and playing square balls in front of Reading's midfield? 

If I remember correctly, Arsenal had managed 10 shots on goal by the 73rd minutes, of which 3 were on target.

Sure Arsenal are good technically, but it was soulless, clinical football.  The Guardian report said they were scintillating - it left me cold.  Reading weren't in the same class but at least they played with a bit of passion and got the crowd going when they attacked towards the end.

[TipTopKop]

In 2003 you might have had a point but the future is very bright at United. Having watched all our great sides take shape I think this will be the best by some way. Of course it will have to carrying on delievering the goods on the pitch but I'm confident over the next 6 years it will win a hell of a lot.

The signings to replace Giggs and Scholes were always going to be hard but in Nani and Anderson I think we've done very very well. The importing thing is both have a season or two to settle in but to their credit they've done so well they're pushing for a start now.

IF Nani and Anderson do end up filling the massive shoes of Giggs and Scholes then fair play, it will go along way to the continuation, but this is a question mark. You also have to factor in Ferguson's eventual departure, no matter how smooth a transition will be, there will always be bumps on the road, some staff coming and going, some new philosophy taking place, the future is far from certain for the Mancs.

Not to say it's all rosey for the other 'big 3' to be fair, but I think the future is far from determined. Obviously being biased, I quite like the look of where we're heading, I think another summer of proper spending to address a position or 2 and we'd be right there, I also think Chelsea will get their act together for the simple fact of money, they have it, and with it, Anything becomes possible.

[canyouhackett]

I'd agree with that.

Ferguson leaving will be the big one, theres no one out there who could come in and do better than he has. The pressure will be huge and if we don't get it right we will be in trouble because as you say you're putting together a good side, Chel$ea are Chel$ea and even Arsenal have a handy side.

Thankfully for us I don't think he'll ever step down unless he's carried out of Old Trafford in a box.