Author Topic: So why on earth should i moan...  (Read 2464 times)

Offline baz

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So why on earth should i moan...
« on: November 7, 2007, 10:59:42 PM »
‘So why on earth should I moan, I beat you 8-0 at home . . . but do I feel OK?’

The Times: November 8, 2007
Oliver Kay

It was, Rafael BenÍtez said, an “almost perfect” night. Almost? Your team win 8-0, setting a Champions League record, and still you want more? “Yes, because the other team had one chance,” the Liverpool manager said with a stroke of that almost perfectly manicured goatee beard – and no, he was not joking.

Like all perfectionists, BenÍtez has never witnessed perfection, least of all on a football pitch. As a serious child growing up in Madrid in the early 1970s, albeit one oblivious to the significance of the final years of Franco’s regime, he would return home from training to chart the performances of his youth side, dissecting the form of teammates who had no idea that they were under such scrutiny.

Suspicions of his obsessive tendencies were raised, however, if they visited his family’s apartment, where they would be instantly compelled to take him on at chess or, better still, Stratego, a military board game at which the young BenÍtez was particularly prolific.

As he once explained to a handful of bemused reporters, it took a rare and upsetting defeat at Stratego and, subsequently, a succession of sleepless nights before he finally settled on a winning formula. Now, at the age of 47, he applies that process to football. After any game – win, lose or draw – he will go home and spend hours in his office, poring over a DVD of the game. When finally he goes to bed, he will share his findings with his wife, Montse. As pillow-talk goes, it is not quite what we expect of the Spanish.

Jamie Carragher, the Liverpool vice-captain, claims never to have had a conversation with his manager about anything beyond football in 3½ years. “People say I’m obsessed by football, but he’s unbelievable,” the defender said. “It’s a bit sick really. You just think: ‘How can he have a life?’ ” BenÍtez is a devoted husband and a doting father of two young girls, but his players wonder when he gets the chance to see them. He is the first to the training ground every morning and the last to leave. Mr. Ferguson is renowned for a similar workaholic approach, but the Manchester United manager makes time to indulge his other interests: horse racing, fine wine, politics and, of course, his family. BenÍtez is a family man, but one rarely, if ever, seen out and about on Merseyside outside of his work. He did once visit the Lake District, apparently.

The manager’s job consumes BenÍtez, but in football, where the protagonists on the pitch are less pliable than those on a mock battlefield, perfection remains an elusive goal, even when, as on Tuesday, his team are winning 8-0 against Beşiktaş.

As each goal flew in, he responded in his customary fashion by hauling one of his players over from the celebrating throng and issuing tactical instructions – “Keep tight”, “Watch the No 10” – always thinking, always desperate to preserve a clean sheet. Cynics wonder whether this might be for effect, a deliberate attempt to show a calm head when all about him are losing theirs. But the perfectionism is real, as Steven Gerrard recalls from the postmatch party after his two goals against West Ham United had all but won the FA Cup in 2006.

“I wandered across to him, thinking: Go on, Rafa, just say it. Just say: ‘Well done, Steven’ for once,” Gerrard wrote in his autobiography. “Would he? No chance. Our chat revolved around what went wrong on the day, nothing to do with how well we had done to get back into one of the greatest finals of all time. My aim is still to get a ‘well done’ off him before I retire. But if I did, I might need treatment and a long lie down.”

Even among his peers, BenÍtez is an enigma. He has the dedication of José Mourinho but none of the charisma; the cool head of Sven-Göran Eriksson but none of the charm; he shares Arsène Wenger’s obsession with the game but not the Arsenal manager’s love of beautiful football, instead preferring tactics that, in the words of one observer, “appear to have been devised by a chartered accountant”.

In terms of man-management, he is not the father-figure type, instead treating his players with much the same affection as he did the soldiers on the Stratego board.

Beneath that cold exterior, though, there is a heart. When he left Valencia to move to Anfield in the summer of 2004, he wept during his farewell press conference. Maybe one day we will see a similar side to him, but, to his players, that remains no more likely than a slap on the back and a hearty “well done”.

Peter Crouch has warned his Liverpool teammates that the hard work only began with the 8-0 victory over Beşiktaş on Tuesday, with wins likely to be needed at home to FC Porto and away to Marseilles to guarantee qualification for the Champions League knockout stage (Oliver Kay writes). “It’s an emphatic win, but there is still a a lot of work to do,” the forward said.

With two goals, Crouch made a point to his manager, but the forward reserved praise for Yossi Benayoun, who scored a hat-trick, indicating that he could help Israel to do England a favour by beating Russia in their European Championship qualifying match on November 17. “I’ve been on to Yossi,” Crouch said. “Hopefully he will do us a job against Russia.”


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Offline redforlife

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Re: So why on earth should i moan...
« Reply #1 on: November 7, 2007, 11:03:41 PM »
Totally agree with you, he's the best we could hope for and still has my 100% backing.
Didi Hamann

In the corridors and changing rooms of Anfield I met many people - the great, the talented, the legendary.  I know that I only met one genius.  He was a small, smiling man with a neatly clipped beard.  His name was Rafael Benitez.

Offline inky2

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Re: So why on earth should i moan...
« Reply #2 on: November 7, 2007, 11:05:10 PM »
goood point but everyone else is moaning, so join in in  ;)
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Offline Rafadagaffer

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Re: So why on earth should i moan...
« Reply #3 on: November 7, 2007, 11:11:40 PM »
Good read that thanks.
I think we have some posibilities, no?

Offline Alf

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Re: So why on earth should i moan...
« Reply #4 on: November 7, 2007, 11:14:30 PM »
Good article. The 1st thing I noticed at the final whistle was Rafa checking his watch as the ref blew up bang on 90 minutes.

Offline royhendo

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Re: So why on earth should i moan...
« Reply #5 on: November 7, 2007, 11:16:04 PM »
Quote
Even among his peers, BenÍtez is an enigma. He has the dedication of José Mourinho but none of the charisma; the cool head of Sven-Göran Eriksson but none of the charm; he shares Arsène Wenger’s obsession with the game but not the Arsenal manager’s love of beautiful football, instead preferring tactics that, in the words of one observer, “appear to have been devised by a chartered accountant”.

In terms of man-management, he is not the father-figure type, instead treating his players with much the same affection as he did the soldiers on the Stratego board.

I think this is wrong - 4 misconceptions of varying degrees - but journalists love to pigeonhole when they write their profiles.
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Offline Garstonite

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Re: So why on earth should i moan...
« Reply #6 on: November 7, 2007, 11:19:29 PM »
I think this is wrong - 4 misconceptions of varying degrees - but journalists love to pigeonhole when they write their profiles.

Eriksson has all the charm of a cannibal in an air disaster and if Mourinho's 'dedication' extends to doing adverts for American Express and being overly concerne about his hairstyles and designer suits, then I suppose they have a point.

Offline Samran.

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Re: So why on earth should i moan...
« Reply #7 on: November 7, 2007, 11:21:39 PM »
Good article. The 1st thing I noticed at the final whistle was Rafa checking his watch as the ref blew up bang on 90 minutes.

Heh yeh that went through my mind too. Deep inside i bet he was pissed off about that.

Got to love him.

Offline Mimi

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Re: So why on earth should i moan...
« Reply #8 on: November 7, 2007, 11:22:44 PM »
Eriksson has all the charm of a cannibal in an air disaster and if Mourinho's 'dedication' extends to doing adverts for American Express and being overly concerne about his hairstyles and designer suits, then I suppose they have a point.

:wellin

As it goes, it's better than most articles about Rafa; however, he appears just as puzzled at the end as he was at the beginning.
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Offline Barney_Rubble

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Re: So why on earth should i moan...
« Reply #9 on: November 7, 2007, 11:25:17 PM »

Even among his peers, BenÍtez is an enigma. He has the dedication of José Mourinho but none of the charisma; the cool head of Sven-Göran Eriksson but none of the charm; he shares Arsène Wenger’s obsession with the game but not the Arsenal manager’s love of beautiful football, instead preferring tactics that, in the words of one observer, “appear to have been devised by a chartered accountant”.

What garbage.

No charisma? No charm? No love of beautiful football?

STICK YER FUCKING RED HERRING BEAUTIFUL FUCKING FOOTBALL SHITE RIGHT UP YER FUCKING JACKSEY YOU FUCKING PLANK.

When the FA announce the awarding of marks for artistic merit, there might possibly be a point, but beautiful football is not, nor has it ever been, nor will it ever be the POINT of football.

Couple of fucking stepovers and backheels, and a couple of fucking monkey tricks and these dickheads are slavvering like dirty old men in a porno cinema.

FUCK OFF. YOU KNOW FUCK ALL YOU WANKERS...

« Last Edit: November 7, 2007, 11:27:07 PM by Barney_Rubble »
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Offline royhendo

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Re: So why on earth should i moan...
« Reply #10 on: November 7, 2007, 11:31:11 PM »
I think he has charisma, charm, is capable of beautiful football (admittedly we're coming off the end of some dreary fare, but cast the mind back - at times we're awesome), and there's also plenty of testament to his man-management (anyone ever consider that maybe gerrard's at his best when he feels he has something to prove?) - momo, babel, voronin... they're all on record saying he's gone out of his way to give them advice and reassurance. mcpartland's quote when he left anyone?

maybe rafa just needs to schmooze some of these hacks? but that's enough to make anyone vomit.
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Offline The Jackal

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Re: So why on earth should i moan...
« Reply #11 on: November 7, 2007, 11:33:17 PM »
What garbage.

No charisma? No charm? No love of beautiful football?

STICK YER FUCKING RED HERRING BEAUTIFUL FUCKING FOOTBALL SHITE RIGHT UP YER FUCKING JACKSEY YOU FUCKING PLANK.

When the FA announce the awarding of marks for artistic merit, there might possibly be a point, but beautiful football is not, nor has it ever been, nor will it ever be the POINT of football.

Couple of fucking stepovers and backheels, and a couple of fucking monkey tricks and these dickheads are slavvering like dirty old men in a porno cinema.

FUCK OFF. YOU KNOW FUCK ALL YOU WANKERS...



stop skirting the issue Barney - just say what you mean will ya?!?  :P
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Offline DonkeyWan

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Re: So why on earth should i moan...
« Reply #12 on: November 7, 2007, 11:37:07 PM »
The article is interesting but clearly fails to account for the sly humour Rafa often displays, or the clear irritation when he feels a decision goes against him. As such the article tries to define Rafa as a dull automaton, since it fits in so nicely with the machine anecdotes bandied around by the Spanish press. In reality Rafa is far more a cagey manager, unwilling to tip his hand or let the carefully preserved facade dip, for fear it would hand the advantage to the opposition. Kay portrays him as some sort of terminator, when in fact he's more like a champion poker player.
Beatings will continue until morale improves...

Offline jiky

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Re: So why on earth should i moan...
« Reply #13 on: November 7, 2007, 11:37:14 PM »
rafas alot like me
im off to switzerland,baby. Wanna assist?

Offline Garstonite

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Re: So why on earth should i moan...
« Reply #14 on: November 7, 2007, 11:37:52 PM »
rafas alot like me

Fucking hell. Kaizer's back.

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Re: So why on earth should i moan...
« Reply #15 on: November 7, 2007, 11:40:30 PM »
What garbage.

No charisma? No charm? No love of beautiful football?

STICK YER FUCKING RED HERRING BEAUTIFUL FUCKING FOOTBALL SHITE RIGHT UP YER FUCKING JACKSEY YOU FUCKING PLANK.

When the FA announce the awarding of marks for artistic merit, there might possibly be a point, but beautiful football is not, nor has it ever been, nor will it ever be the POINT of football.

Couple of fucking stepovers and backheels, and a couple of fucking monkey tricks and these dickheads are slavvering like dirty old men in a porno cinema.

FUCK OFF. YOU KNOW FUCK ALL YOU WANKERS...



:thumbup

Offline ¡Basta Ya!

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Re: So why on earth should i moan...
« Reply #16 on: November 7, 2007, 11:42:37 PM »
Quote
Even among his peers, BenÍtez is an enigma. He has the dedication of José Mourinho but none of the charisma; the cool head of Sven-Göran Eriksson but none of the charm; he shares Arsène Wenger’s obsession with the game but not the Arsenal manager’s love of beautiful football, instead preferring tactics that, in the words of one observer, “appear to have been devised by a chartered accountant”.

What. He is witty, funny and sharp as a tack.


* WARNING - The above post may contain sarcasm. Maybe some irony, if you're lucky.

AS ALWAYS, WE ARE FOCUSED ON SUPPORTING OUR MANAGER

Offline Red_in_Holland

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Re: So why on earth should i moan...
« Reply #17 on: November 7, 2007, 11:42:48 PM »
Benitez has a personal dignity that the others could only hope for.   

As befitting being the custodian of our great team.

He isnt an enigma to us, he is the driving force that took us to two CL finals in three years.  The media forget that simple fact regularly.. what amazes me is a lot of our supporters forget that also.

With 250 million spent on a team, Mourinho failed to do this, Ferguson has spent for the last decade, and failed also to be constant in Europe since his one last gasp win.  Wenger made a final once since his tenure.

My one hope is Benitez wins the Premiership with LFC to get em all off his back.  Having said that, I seriously think it wouldn't make his life easier, as he will be expected to win the PL and CL every season.. such is the greediness and demands of the present-day football fan.  No less will be tolerated by them and the media that feeds that frenzy.

Its a shame, as Benitez is definately the best manager we could of hoped for since Kenny left us.  Left to plot our future in peace, he will rain titles and trophies on us.  That is my firm belief in his potential for us.

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Offline firing squad

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Re: So why on earth should i moan...
« Reply #18 on: November 7, 2007, 11:44:32 PM »
Eriksson has all the charm of a cannibal in an air disaster and if Mourinho's 'dedication' extends to doing adverts for American Express and being overly concerne about his hairstyles and designer suits, then I suppose they have a point.
I thought the same thing,but not that colorful obviously. ;)
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Offline 4pool

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Re: So why on earth should i moan...
« Reply #19 on: November 7, 2007, 11:46:46 PM »
What garbage.

No charisma? No charm? No love of beautiful football?

STICK YER FUCKING RED HERRING BEAUTIFUL FUCKING FOOTBALL SHITE RIGHT UP YER FUCKING JACKSEY YOU FUCKING PLANK.

When the FA announce the awarding of marks for artistic merit, there might possibly be a point, but beautiful football is not, nor has it ever been, nor will it ever be the POINT of football.

Couple of fucking stepovers and backheels, and a couple of fucking monkey tricks and these dickheads are slavvering like dirty old men in a porno cinema.

FUCK OFF. YOU KNOW FUCK ALL YOU WANKERS...



 :wellin

Sounds like a flag in the making.... ;D
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Offline Barney_Rubble

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Re: So why on earth should i moan...
« Reply #20 on: November 7, 2007, 11:47:05 PM »

That dizzy simpleton Mourinho thinks charisma is the 25th of December....

:mooncat





Sounds like a flag in the making....

BIG flag ;D

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Offline woof

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Re: So why on earth should i moan...
« Reply #21 on: November 7, 2007, 11:47:56 PM »
Against Beşiktaş, I believe we only "hoof" the ball twice, courtesy of Carragher but there weren't longball punts. They hit the intended targets. We moved the ball well, with precision and pace. We created something like 20 chances and had some wonderful goals scored albeit less spectacular that ones we have been accustomed to.

If they think a chartered accountant can come up with that, then I'll do the tax for the accountant. We definitely didn't play 'ugly' football.

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Offline phoenician

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Re: So why on earth should i moan...
« Reply #22 on: November 8, 2007, 12:14:47 AM »
I think this is wrong - 4 misconceptions of varying degrees - but journalists love to pigeonhole when they write their profiles.

Fuck me if the whole of journalism hasn't fallen into that pigeonhole. Lately it has been the fucking CRACK OF DOOM what with the Crisis and all.

God save us from the personality contest formerly known as football. Fuck.

Offline Cracking Left Foot

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Re: So why on earth should i moan...
« Reply #23 on: November 8, 2007, 12:52:40 AM »
Good article, although had to laugh at the 'shares none of Wenger's love for beautiful football' rubbish. On Tuesday night we were playing some of the most sublime football I've seen in years (the build up to Gerrard's goal, Babel's backheel flick into the goal etc).

But it describes Rafa's obsessive nature spot-on, and that's exactly why we should be chuffed to bits he's our manager.
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Re: So why on earth should i moan...
« Reply #24 on: November 8, 2007, 01:05:40 AM »
bollocks, no charisma, no charm... isn't he was always referred to as 'the affable spaniard' plus i think that's pretty lazy journalism, all the stuff about his meticulous attention to detail, stratego and stevies biography, carraghers quotes has all been said before. disappointing article for me
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Offline woof

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Re: So why on earth should i moan...
« Reply #25 on: November 8, 2007, 01:11:10 AM »

Even among his peers, BenÍtez is an enigma. He has the dedication of José Mourinho but none of the charisma; the cool head of Sven-Göran Eriksson but none of the charm; he shares Arsène Wenger’s obsession with the game but not the Arsenal manager’s love of beautiful football, instead preferring tactics that, in the words of one observer, “appear to have been devised by a chartered accountant”.
None of Mourinho's charisma? Nah, we don't want Rafa to spend any more time grooming his goatee or turn up with Prada glasses.
None of Eriksson's charm? No way do we want Rafa to be shagging anything with two spreadable legs!
None of Wenger's love of "beautiful" football? No, we do not want Rafa sulking, whinging & having spats with every manager he has not beaten

Offline cornishred1

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Re: So why on earth should i moan...
« Reply #26 on: November 8, 2007, 01:19:58 AM »
Totally agree with you, he's the best we could hope for and still has my 100% backing.



Its a shame, as Benitez is definately the best manager we could've hoped for since Kenny left us.  Left to plot our future in peace, he will rain titles and trophies on us.  That is my firm belief in his potential for us.

RiH

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Offline Tarantino Red

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Re: So why on earth should i moan...
« Reply #27 on: November 8, 2007, 01:35:04 AM »
Charisma?

Doesn't he play for Porto?

I'll get me coat...

P.S. I love how the British media still don't get Rafa, at all. Wonderful.

Offline shanklyboy

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Re: So why on earth should i moan...
« Reply #28 on: November 8, 2007, 01:44:39 AM »
That dizzy simpleton Mourinho thinks charisma is the 25th of December....

:mooncat





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Offline chrishughes

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Re: So why on earth should i moan...
« Reply #29 on: November 8, 2007, 01:52:39 AM »

P.S. I love how the British media still don't get Rafa, at all. Wonderful.

I think that they get him....but they are frustrated with him because he gives them nothing. They want insight into how he operates but he doesn't provide that to them...so they turn on him.

Offline 7Dalglish

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Re: So why on earth should i moan...
« Reply #30 on: November 8, 2007, 01:54:36 AM »
bollocks, no charisma, no charm... isn't he was always referred to as 'the affable spaniard' plus i think that's pretty lazy journalism, all the stuff about his meticulous attention to detail, stratego and stevies biography, carraghers quotes has all been said before. disappointing article for me

I don't think it's lazy at all, it's calculated. They know that soon (as we're about to go on a long winning streak) they won't be able to talk about rotation, zonal marking or any other bollocks so they're left with making up shite about his personality and the brand of football we play.

Offline i6uuaq

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Re: So why on earth should i moan...
« Reply #31 on: November 8, 2007, 01:57:10 AM »
Charisma?

Doesn't he play for Porto?

I'll get me coat...

P.S. I love how the British media still don't get Rafa, at all. Wonderful.

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Re: So why on earth should i moan...
« Reply #32 on: November 8, 2007, 01:58:30 AM »
I don't think it's lazy at all, it's calculated. They know that soon (as we're about to go on a long winning streak) they won't be able to talk about rotation, zonal marking or any other bollocks so they're left with making up shite about his personality and the brand of football we play.

it's rehashed and full of quotes used a million times before, i wouldn't say it took him long to write. I was tempted to put a corden around the post and usher people away "nothing to see here"
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Offline Shanklys Love Child

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Re: So why on earth should i moan...
« Reply #33 on: November 8, 2007, 02:01:08 AM »
Interesting about Rafa's obsession with tactics and strategy as a kid - I didn't know that - but I didn't like the way it was protrayed (mostly) negatively. Similarly, being a hard-worker can be protrayed as a negative or positive trait and I felt the tone of the writing here was unnecessarily negative.

As for the comparisons with Mourinho, Ferguson, Sven and Wenger - as noted by many above - what a load of crap!!! Rafa is humourous, dignified and professional - more so than any in that list.

Offline shanklyboy

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Re: So why on earth should i moan...
« Reply #34 on: November 8, 2007, 02:03:22 AM »
I love the way they say things like 'Cynics wonder whether this might be for effect,' and 'in the words of one observer' Who are they and where did they say this. In the office canteen or the press room?
To say that Rafa has no charisma is insulting.
Take Ferguson for instance. He Takes that long walk to and from the bench and the tunnel with a security guard for fuck sake. How often do you hear the Mancs singing his name. Or fans of any team singing their managers name. Unless it's something like 'Big fat bastards blue and white army' or some shite.
Can you imagine how Rafa would be received if he had to make the same length of walk as Ferguson does.
 
"It feels as if I have been on a permanent honeymoon since I arrived here, I am on a cloud and I feel as if with Liverpool I have found the love of my life."

"Balance on the pitch comes from mixing talent and quality with the right attitude and defensive spirit. However, you can never forget that quality is the most important thing and good football should always get its rewards."

“Seeing these smiling faces is the greatest pleasure, ... They have been magnificent all season. They have been our 12th man. I have always said our fans are the best in England. Now I know they are the best in Europe too.”

"I'm in a hurry and I must go to the hospital to see how Robben is, he could be in hospital for a week,"

"If we can win a game in five minutes against a top team just think how much more terrible damage there would be if we played for the other 85 minutes."

"If you have a very good car and win a race, and after if you go again with the same car and only come third, you learn that you needed to improve that car,"
"At Liverpool we have a very good car, but you always want a better car with a bigger engine. We have improved, but we need to continue that improvement."

"I said: 'Don't let your heads drop. We're Liverpool. You're playing for Liverpool. Don't forget that. You have to hold your heads high for the supporters. You have to do it for them.
'You can't call yourselves Liverpool players if you have your heads down. If we create a few chances we have the possibility of getting back into this. Believe you can do it and you will. Give yourself the chance to be heroes'."
« Last Edit: November 8, 2007, 02:05:43 AM by shanklyboy »
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Offline 7Dalglish

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Re: So why on earth should i moan...
« Reply #35 on: November 8, 2007, 02:04:54 AM »
it's rehashed and full of quotes used a million times before, i wouldn't say it took him long to write. I was tempted to put a corden around the post and usher people away "nothing to see here"

It's the attack on his personality I'm talking about being calculated

Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: So why on earth should i moan...
« Reply #36 on: November 8, 2007, 02:08:34 AM »
While Rafa's man-management style can be distant, and (wisely) leads to eager-to-please players like Gerrard never feeling they can rest on their laurels (Gerrard is still driven to get that 'well done'), Rafa can alter his style to suit the player more than he's given credit for.

Rafa's treatment of Sissoko, when struggling, was a case in point. He told him not to worry about making mistakes, they happen, and that the only way to get past it was to get back out there and find the form of old. He didn't chide him, publicly or privately, but quite the opposite. Result? Momo's best game for ages at Blackburn, where he passed well and with composure.

Then there's Babel, with whom he has taken a patient, paternal approach. Can't remember the exact quotes, but Babel did mention about how good Rafa has been with him on a one-to-one level.
« Last Edit: November 8, 2007, 02:10:15 AM by Paul Tomkins »

Offline Redshadow

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Re: So why on earth should i moan...
« Reply #37 on: November 8, 2007, 02:55:48 AM »
Rafa is a perfect manager for us. Can't understand those who was going for his head of late. 
Whatever an education is, it should make you a unique individual, not a conformist; it should furnish you with an original spirit to tackle big challenges; it should allow you to find values to road map through life; it should make you spiritually rich, a person who loves whatever you are doing, wherever you are.

Offline keyo

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Re: So why on earth should i moan...
« Reply #38 on: November 8, 2007, 03:02:41 AM »
Charisma?  See many managers who can saunter into bars full of fans these days?

Joey's ate the frogs legs, made the swiss roll, now he's munchin' gladbach!!

Offline coffeehead

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Re: So why on earth should i moan...
« Reply #39 on: November 8, 2007, 05:04:27 AM »
Rafa's great, the article is mostly rehashed bollocks but one point does stand out: he does seem to prefer over-cautious, over-defensive football most of the time (which makes the more free flowing games like Tuesday's all the more frustrating as they are rare).

If he could change that one aspect of his management style into one that's a bit more attacking then he'd be the perfect manager...



...almost ;)