Author Topic: Lost: Steven Gerrard's football skills... and other items including:  (Read 34675 times)

Offline Hinesy

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A sensible approach to our current lack of winning.


Since Gerrard played twice for England and Steve McLaren was granted the Keys to Manchester. and London for doing the other clubs a favour, our main player, has been poor.

But to argue that rotation is responsible for our current predicament is nonsense and over simplistic. Yes it might frustrate us that different teams are played each week, but today's side v Spurs had played together as a team before. AND as highly skilled and paid footballers who spend all week training together, they do know eachother very well. There were few times today when misunderstanding was the cause of lost balls and so on.
Spurs scored twice with route one balls, and the defence needs to be examined. But Gerrard had a very poor game AGAIN and when he does, so do we as a whole; as much as we might not like to be labelled a one man team.

I wish I could say it was merely rotation that was causing our problems, an easy solution, a quick-fx and a stick to beat the manager with. But no, the players look jaded, and are not playing up to their promise.
The first half, we played lovely football at times and perhaps were guilty at least once of trying to walk the ball in, but if we'd won then we wouldn't be complaining at all about the team.

I think its time we ignored the anti-rotationists and realised that there is something else going on. It may be as simple as players not playing well. that's certainly true. But why?  I don't know.
But I do know the team today have played together before, all know eachother and made very few mistakes. We were poor but that wasn't the reason why.

Yep.

Offline king sjjj

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Re: Lost: Steven Gerrard's football skills... and other items including:
« Reply #1 on: October 7, 2007, 05:14:02 pm »
Shouldn't have played those two matches, quite simple

Offline b_joseph

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Re: Lost: Steven Gerrard's football skills... and other items including:
« Reply #2 on: October 7, 2007, 05:15:50 pm »
Gerrard was actually; quite good in the 1st half..But he did drop of the game in the 2nd.
 He seemed to allow Masch to do the forward running in the 2nd half...seemed strange.

Offline figgy12

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Re: Lost: Steven Gerrard's football skills... and other items including:
« Reply #3 on: October 7, 2007, 05:16:12 pm »
Gerrard is wank.
So. Fucking. Angry.

Offline LFCScouser

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Re: Lost: Steven Gerrard's football skills... and other items including:
« Reply #4 on: October 7, 2007, 05:16:17 pm »
Suppose you will make a thread like this for Carragher aswell? Seeing as he's been just as poor as Gerrard this season.

Probably not, though.
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Offline sionisred

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Re: Lost: Steven Gerrard's football skills... and other items including:
« Reply #5 on: October 7, 2007, 05:17:48 pm »
Gerrard had a good game today. Good distribution, set up a goal and almost scored himself.

Offline HiroProtagonist

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Re: Lost: Steven Gerrard's football skills... and other items including:
« Reply #6 on: October 7, 2007, 05:18:43 pm »
Did Carragher hoof the ball up alot today yet again?

Offline ds2190

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Re: Lost: Steven Gerrard's football skills... and other items including:
« Reply #7 on: October 7, 2007, 05:19:20 pm »
Best game of the season so far in my opinion. Hasn't been the Gerrard we know and love for a long time - alot like Xabi in that respect.

No matter how badly he performs he'll get into the team because of his name. He is the only player that Rafa will never rotate.

Offline LFCScouser

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Re: Lost: Steven Gerrard's football skills... and other items including:
« Reply #8 on: October 7, 2007, 05:19:26 pm »
Gerrard had a good game today. Good distribution, set up a goal and almost scored himself.
How dare you praise him?

You do realize he has to score a great goal and get a few assists before he can be praised?
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Offline Hinesy

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Re: Lost: Steven Gerrard's football skills... and other items including:
« Reply #9 on: October 7, 2007, 05:20:19 pm »
Carra had a shit game but hasn't been missing half as much as Gerrard. But yes I'll put one up for him too if it makes you feel better.
The fact is Gerrard when he plays well changes games. Carra doesn't have that effect as much.
Yep.

Offline sionisred

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Re: Lost: Steven Gerrard's football skills... and other items including:
« Reply #10 on: October 7, 2007, 05:21:58 pm »
How dare you praise him?

You do realize he has to score a great goal and get a few assists before he can be praised?

I'm ashamed   :(

Offline Bob Loblaw

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Re: Lost: Steven Gerrard's football skills... and other items including:
« Reply #11 on: October 7, 2007, 05:23:17 pm »
If he isn't fit to play, Rafa wouldn't be picking him. So stop this nonsense, it's far too convenient an excuse. Gerrard has NEVER been a consistent performer for us. He's had patches like this through out his whole career. 

Offline Guz-kop

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Re: Lost: Steven Gerrard's football skills... and other items including:
« Reply #12 on: October 7, 2007, 05:23:19 pm »
Carra had a shit game but hasn't been missing half as much as Gerrard.


Defenders and keepers can't go missing, if they play shit they'll be in the firing line. I think he's (Carra) been utter wank , to be honest. Just like he was at the start of last season. Injury has obviously contributed to this, same goes for Finnan and Gerrard IMO.

Either way, whatever the reasons, our squad looks devoid of any freshness, intensity and importantly confidence. For some reason we look lost. I think the international break will do us good.
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Offline Carra23

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Re: Lost: Steven Gerrard's football skills... and other items including:
« Reply #13 on: October 7, 2007, 05:25:06 pm »
Suppose you will make a thread like this for Carragher aswell? Seeing as he's been just as poor as Gerrard this season.

Probably not, though.

You beat me to it.


Carragher has been just as poor as Gerrard and both can do better so what is good for one is good for the other.



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Offline Dar

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Re: Lost: Steven Gerrard's football skills... and other items including:
« Reply #14 on: October 7, 2007, 05:26:31 pm »
Shouldn't have played those two matches, quite simple

He shouldn't took the pain killing injection to play against Chelsea more like, basically all we did was make the problem worse, McClaren is gonna to play Gerrard at 50% fitness like most people on here would because he is are best midfielder on form so cant blame the man. Still doesnt explain why he is playing shite still.

Offline Bob Loblaw

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Re: Lost: Steven Gerrard's football skills... and other items including:
« Reply #15 on: October 7, 2007, 05:27:37 pm »
I think the international break will do us good.

Yep. Couldn't have come at a better time in all honesty. Rafa needs to have a sit down with them first. Cause there's certain things that need sorting out in that dressing room imo. And I'd drop Gerrard for a few games after the break too.

Offline tobyo

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Re: Lost: Steven Gerrard's football skills... and other items including:
« Reply #16 on: October 7, 2007, 05:29:12 pm »
maybe because steven gerrard is arguably the best liverpool player of all time in certain peoples opinions. and at the moment hes performing nothing like that.

carragher is a legend but he cant drive our team going forward and drive fear into the opposition

Offline Guz-kop

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Re: Lost: Steven Gerrard's football skills... and other items including:
« Reply #17 on: October 7, 2007, 05:29:45 pm »
Yep. Couldn't have come at a better time in all honesty. Rafa needs to have a sit down with them first. Cause there's certain things that need sorting out in that dressing room imo. And I'd drop Gerrard for a few games after the break too.

If we are going to drop our experienced players because of poor form, who except Reina and Torres are going to play?

Everyone is going through a slump, we just need a couple of weeks off (or atleast away from the league) to regain the focus which we seemed to have after the Derby game. It's been a shit month but I guess it could've been worse.
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Offline Jin

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Re: Lost: Steven Gerrard's football skills... and other items including:
« Reply #18 on: October 7, 2007, 05:31:12 pm »
Carra needs to have a look at himself as well. Hes not been himself this season.

Offline tobyo

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Re: Lost: Steven Gerrard's football skills... and other items including:
« Reply #19 on: October 7, 2007, 05:33:06 pm »
Carra needs to have a look at himself as well. Hes not been himself this season.


but if you had the choice of carragher playing at his best and gerrard on this form, or carragher on current form and gerrard at his best, you know what you would choose. thats why he gets stick.

Offline Petch

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Re: Lost: Steven Gerrard's football skills... and other items including:
« Reply #20 on: October 7, 2007, 05:37:17 pm »
Weren't Gerrard & Carra both out for the 6-0 thrashing of Derby?

Our defence has been shocking, but I think we're right to point the finger at our 2 best players... neither have been anything shy of poor this season. Let's hope they can both improve.

Oh, and... BRING BACK PAKO!

Offline Bob Loblaw

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Re: Lost: Steven Gerrard's football skills... and other items including:
« Reply #21 on: October 7, 2007, 05:37:26 pm »
If we are going to drop our experienced players because of poor form, who except Reina and Torres are going to play?

Everyone is going through a slump, we just need a couple of weeks off (or atleast away from the league) to regain the focus which we seemed to have after the Derby game. It's been a shit month but I guess it could've been worse.

Gerrard looks like he needs it though. And i genuinely believe we'd be better off without his presence when he's in this sort of mood(form). He seems to drag everyone down with him.

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Re: Lost: Steven Gerrard's football skills... and other items including:
« Reply #22 on: October 7, 2007, 05:39:17 pm »
A sensible approach to our current lack of winning.


Since Gerrard played twice for England and Steve McLaren was granted the Keys to Manchester. and London for doing the other clubs a favour, our main player, has been poor.

But to argue that rotation is responsible for our current predicament is nonsense and over simplistic. Yes it might frustrate us that different teams are played each week, but today's side v Spurs had played together as a team before. AND as highly skilled and paid footballers who spend all week training together, they do know eachother very well. There were few times today when misunderstanding was the cause of lost balls and so on.

Spurs scored twice with route one balls, and the defence needs to be examined. But Gerrard had a very poor game AGAIN and when he does, so do we as a whole; as much as we might not like to be labelled a one man team.

I wish I could say it was merely rotation that was causing our problems, an easy solution, a quick-fx and a stick to beat the manager with. But no, the players look jaded, and are not playing up to their promise. The first half, we played lovely football at times and perhaps were guilty at least once of trying to walk the ball in, but if we'd won then we wouldn't be complaining at all about the team.

I think its time we ignored the anti-rotationists and realised that there is something else going on. It may be as simple as players not playing well. that's certainly true. But why?  I don't know.

But I do know the team today have played together before, all know eachother and made very few mistakes. We were poor but that wasn't the reason why.

This is what I thought post-Marseille:

http://timesonline.typepad.com/fanzine_fanzone/2007/10/rafa-must-risk-.html

Rafa must risk journalistic scorn

To get Liverpool's stuttering season back on track Rafa must do one of two things on Sunday guaranteed to get the press pack spluttering: either drop Steven Gerrard or play him "out of position" on the right. Of course this will necessitate that dreaded word rotation but the team should be above one individual or the sensibilities of journalists.

The team's form has dipped dramatically since the last international break. Gerrard and Finnan came back shot to pieces through injury/tiredness and and have struggled to find any semblance of form. Agger and Alonso then both picked up metatarsal injuries in that first game back, the Portsmouth draw. Their absence is sorely missed as they're our metronomes in defence and midfield, the players who dictate the flow and pace of play.

One way of getting some of that back would be to move Gerrard out of central midfield in favour of Lucas Leiva, the  Brazilian U20 captain who in his few appearances seems to have Alonso's happy knack of always being available to receive the ball and then finding a free man. He could be the sort of oil to get the engine running smoothly again. Gerrard could then either play right allowing him freedom to roam forward or sit in the stands allowing him the rest he desperately seems to need. Mind you such an action by Rafa would be deemed heretic these days outside the core LFC support, who don't see our captain as the superhuman saviour of all mankind he's often portrayed.

The other problem with the team at the moment is the lack of pace at the back caused by Agger's injury. We're playing a deeper backline with Sami Hyypia stepping in and it's stretching play to such an extent that the easy pass isn't often on, resulting in Carragher et al launching it and gifting away possession. Missing out on Gabriel Heinze, or an alternative centreback, now looks a costly misjudgement.

So what will happen Sunday? Well thankfully it's kamikaze Spurs so it'll no doubt be a crazily open end-to-end game and all I've written above will prove redundant with Gerrard scoring a couple from central midfield in a high scoring win. And then all the talk of rotation and a crisis will be out to bed for another irritating week of internationals.
« Last Edit: October 7, 2007, 06:09:20 pm by Rushian »
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Offline The Infamous_LFC

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Re: Lost: Steven Gerrard's football skills... and other items including:
« Reply #23 on: October 7, 2007, 05:42:29 pm »
Has everyone noticed when Gerrard was younger about 22/23 he used to have a bit of skill a nutmeg here and there and he used to tackle every game winning the ball most times but picking up cards other times. I prefer the aggressive Steven he was more of a midfielder now he is another player people don't even know what his best position is anymore.

Sort it out tackle more and try running with the ball and doing something unexpected.

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Offline tobyo

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Re: Lost: Steven Gerrard's football skills... and other items including:
« Reply #25 on: October 7, 2007, 05:45:39 pm »
Weren't Gerrard & Carra both out for the 6-0 thrashing of Derby?

Our defence has been shocking, but I think we're right to point the finger at our 2 best players... neither have been anything shy of poor this season. Let's hope they can both improve.

Oh, and... BRING BACK PAKO!

yeah i forgot about pako banging in all them goals.

nothing to do with pako or management issues.

facts are our best players gerrard and carra arent performing. 2 key players out injured aswell.

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Re: Lost: Steven Gerrard's football skills... and other items including:
« Reply #26 on: October 7, 2007, 05:47:30 pm »
Its obvious something is not right with him, and it has to be sorted asap. Is he unfit? Is he in pain?

He is playing in his favoured position, and usually with Masch who would let him to the attacking. I don't see why he is not giving enough to the team at the moment. Same goes for Carra. We cant expect newer & less experience players to bail us out every game if the big senior players are not doing it or even setting a good example
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Offline Bob Loblaw

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Re: Lost: Steven Gerrard's football skills... and other items including:
« Reply #27 on: October 7, 2007, 05:47:56 pm »
Has everyone noticed when Gerrard was younger about 22/23 he used to have a bit of skill a nutmeg here and there and he used to tackle every game winning the ball most times but picking up cards other times. I prefer the aggressive Steven he was more of a midfielder now he is another player people don't even know what his best position is anymore.

Sort it out tackle more and try running with the ball and doing something unexpected.

So true. It's hard to know what to call him nowadays. He's not a typical CM, he doesn't really have the guile to be considered a top AM. I'd call him a right sided midfielder, but he wouldn't like that now would he.

Offline kopindian

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Re: Lost: Steven Gerrard's football skills... and other items including:
« Reply #28 on: October 7, 2007, 05:49:09 pm »
All our non-Rafa players have been poor so far in this run-Gerrard,Carra,Finnan,Riise-Interesting.

Offline Deo

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Re: Lost: Steven Gerrard's football skills... and other items including:
« Reply #29 on: October 7, 2007, 05:50:03 pm »
Gerrard is out of form, probably should be dropped but we can't play anyone else there besides Sissoko (who I reall really don't want to see in our midfield anymore, at least not in Anfield) and Lucas ( who is unproven).

Playing him in the right might do the trick...
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Re: Lost: Steven Gerrard's football skills... and other items including:
« Reply #30 on: October 7, 2007, 05:50:31 pm »
Peeved off with this form at the moment, we need to snap out of it soon or it will be another season of fighting for a champs league place.

We started the season so well, should have beaten Chelsea, 6-0 against Derby, and now look at us, playing like a mid-table team at best.

Without wanting to sound like I'm jumping on the rotation bandwagon, we do really need to stop rotating so much. How many of the other top teams make so many changes each match? Surely its quite obvious to Rafa now that it doesn't work except maybe in Europe, in the Premiership you need to stick with your best team. When we were top of the table why didn't we just stick with the winning team, don't mess with something if it isn't broken. We tinker with the squad, and now look at us. Seems to me that the only way to guarantee a player a place in the team is for them  to play badly - that way Rafa will want to prove he is right to play them when everyone is critisising him so will play that player every match.

We're already falling well behind the top teams, this can't go on.
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Offline 12Kings

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Re: Lost: Steven Gerrard's football skills... and other items including:
« Reply #31 on: October 7, 2007, 05:50:35 pm »
A sensible approach to our current lack of winning.


Since Gerrard played twice for England and Steve McLaren was granted the Keys to Manchester. and London for doing the other clubs a favour, our main player, has been poor.

But to argue that rotation is responsible for our current predicament is nonsense and over simplistic. Yes it might frustrate us that different teams are played each week, but today's side v Spurs had played together as a team before. AND as highly skilled and paid footballers who spend all week training together, they do know eachother very well. There were few times today when misunderstanding was the cause of lost balls and so on.
Spurs scored twice with route one balls, and the defence needs to be examined. But Gerrard had a very poor game AGAIN and when he does, so do we as a whole; as much as we might not like to be labelled a one man team.

I wish I could say it was merely rotation that was causing our problems, an easy solution, a quick-fx and a stick to beat the manager with. But no, the players look jaded, and are not playing up to their promise.
The first half, we played lovely football at times and perhaps were guilty at least once of trying to walk the ball in, but if we'd won then we wouldn't be complaining at all about the team.

I think its time we ignored the anti-rotationists and realised that there is something else going on. It may be as simple as players not playing well. that's certainly true. But why?  I don't know.
But I do know the team today have played together before, all know eachother and made very few mistakes. We were poor but that wasn't the reason why.




I agree, this has nothing to do with rotation, its  more to do with Gerrard not being fit and 2 key players wearing dodgy boots.

Offline RayO'Biscan

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Re: Lost: Steven Gerrard's football skills... and other items including:
« Reply #32 on: October 7, 2007, 05:52:53 pm »
Bring back Digger and Quasimodo!

Offline Alonso_The_Assassin

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Re: Lost: Steven Gerrard's football skills... and other items including:
« Reply #33 on: October 7, 2007, 05:54:37 pm »
Gerrard hasn't been himself for a while now. We've only seen flashes of his brilliance, and not the commanding style like the F.A. win in 2006. I just don't know what's wrong but we need to get it sorted asap, because no one player is bigger than the club!

Offline Neil D

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Re: Lost: Steven Gerrard's football skills... and other items including:
« Reply #34 on: October 7, 2007, 05:59:47 pm »
Gerrard started the season very well, so I think it's unfair to question his commitment. Since his injuy he has struggled for form - it happens. When we move him back onto the right and Masch and Xabi take command in the centre he'll ease back into form.

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Re: Lost: Steven Gerrard's football skills... and other items including:
« Reply #35 on: October 7, 2007, 06:03:22 pm »
Rushian - spot on. Rafa should do it, if only to rest him. I just really hope Gerrard doesn't do an Owen, and declare himself super-fit for these internationals coming up. We shall see.
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Offline anon-y-mouse

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Re: Lost: Steven Gerrard's football skills... and other items including:
« Reply #36 on: October 7, 2007, 06:13:11 pm »
Gerrard needs to take a long hard look at himself because once again today his attitude stunk and it's starting to piss me right off. Being out of form/carrying an injury I can handle, his shocking attitude in these past two games I cannot. Riise should never wear the red shirt again until he can learn to control a football and why oh why did we spunk £11 Million on a player as seemingly limited and one dimensional as Ryan Babel. Mascherano seems to have caught Sissokoitis and can't pass to a red shirt, Pennant was awful and didn't give us any outlet down the right. Carra and Hyypia are woefully out of form. Only Voronin and Torres can take any kind of plusses from todays game.

Back to the Gerrard issue. He needs dropping, publicly, a la Gerrard Houllier circa 2002. If he spits his dummy out over it he can fuck right off.

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Re: Lost: Steven Gerrard's football skills... and other items including:
« Reply #37 on: October 7, 2007, 06:16:34 pm »
Its a confidence thing-Rotation arguments cannot be blamed.

As for Gerrard,he's out of sorts-but moaning about him aint gonna improve his form.

Its not just Gerrard,the rhythm has been knocked sideways (dare i say it) since Pako left.

We need to get that back & we'll get it soon enough.

We'll be close in may,close enough in April to be in with a shout,get behind the boys-show how good we Reds fans are when the chips are down.

Get behind Stevie and the rest of the boys,stop all this fucking moaning.

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Re: Lost: Steven Gerrard's football skills... and other items including:
« Reply #38 on: October 7, 2007, 06:22:56 pm »
Rushian's summary above is on the money.

I think Gerrard needs to be left out for 2 or 3 games now, as he is not playing well (which is fair enough) but also because his body language is poor and he is allowing his head to go down, which IMO is not acceptable for a captain. His dejected demeanour is rubbing off on the players around him. Riise is another whose presence is giving a flat feel to the look of the team.

No one should be guaranteed a place in the team if they're not playing well, whether they are the captain or not.
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Offline Spanish Fan

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Re: Lost: Steven Gerrard's football skills... and other items including:
« Reply #39 on: October 7, 2007, 06:22:58 pm »
Very Little to do with Pako and much too do with Alonso. In 2005 when Alonso got injured we saw a huge decrease in perfomance from the team. Now the same thing is happening. Partially is Benitez's fault for signing very few footballers with great game intellence. His love for for hard working players with not enough talent may cost him the job.
« Last Edit: October 7, 2007, 06:33:29 pm by Spanish Fan »
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