Author Topic: MYTH BUSTING: Rotation revisited  (Read 6562 times)

Offline RayO'Biscan

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MYTH BUSTING: Rotation revisited
« on: September 30, 2007, 12:46:11 pm »
Thu 20 Sep 2007, 10:01

When Alan Hansen mentioned that Mr. Ferguson has rotated for years, it marked the first time that anyone in the national media, to our knowledge, has stated this little known fact. Many love to point out that Liverpool’s Rafa Benitez is far and away the league leader in changing his side from game-to-game (in fact this is exactly what Match Of The Day were talking about when the statement was made), but the fact is that many of the top teams rotate payers as well and rotate at a higher level than reported.

We discussed rotation and its merits in detail in this years book (does it affect winning, does it effect stability, does it improve form in the second half of the season, the optimal number of changes to make etc) and discovered a number of important findings that blow away some of the myths of what rotation is good for and exactly which teams use it.
Table 1.1 Top-10 teams in starting line-up changes-per-game in 2006/07
Rank    Team    Changes-per-game
1    Man United    3.19
2    Liverpool    3.19
3    Newcastle    2.84
4    Chelsea    2.73
5    Arsenal    2.62
6    Sheff United    2.51
7    Tottenham    2.49
8    West Ham    2.43
9    Charlton    2.41
10    Portsmouth    2.27
 

Probably one of the biggest myths blown away by our research last year was that Rafa Benitez was not in fact the runaway winner in the ‘rotation’ stakes as other sources love to report (Table 1.1).  The actual truth of the matter was that Mr. Ferguson and Rafa Benitez made the exact same number of changes to their starting line-ups throughout last season.  In fact, when entering the final game of the season Sir Alex was ahead by five changes. Benitez, in deciding to rest players before their Champions League Final, made nine changes to his starting line-up for the final game of the season, whereas Ferguson made only four.

Additionally, Ferguson might have been the more likely manager of the two to stick with the same starting eleven in consecutive games (four compared to 0 for Benitez), but he was also the more likely to make five or more changes to his line-up (ten compared with eight for Benitez). In fact, had it not been for Liverpool’s success in the Champions League, that last statistic would not have ended so close, because with ten games remaining in the season Ferguson had made more than five changes on nine occasions to Benitez’s four.

Taking everything into account the two managers were essentially equal in terms of their rotation policy.  There were subtle differences, but the overall figures were the same.  Or were they?

According to Hansen on MOTD Ferguson has always rotated more at home, but kept a stable line-up when playing away. This statement was used to imply that Rafa Benitez does not do the same, after making multiple changes for Liverpool’s away clash with Portsmouth this past weekend. To investigate this statement we cannot simple use our game-to-game rotation data, since to keep a stable team away and a ‘rotated’ team at home would show up as numerous changes-per-game flipping from the stable team to the rotated team.  To research this we basically used the same method, but looked at the changes made by each manager to their home and away line-ups in isolation of each other.  We treated the first game of the season both home and away as the baseline and calculated the changes-per-game each manager made from then on (Table 1.2).   

 

Table 1.2 Ferguson versus Benitez Home and Away rotation in 2006/07

                                            Changes-per-game     Same     5 or more     2 or less
Ferguson  Home-toHome                4.00                    0              8                 3
                Away-toAway                 2.61                    3              4                10

Benitez     Home-to-Home               3.11                    0              4                  7
                Away-to-Away                3.06                    0              3                10

 

On first look you might think Hansen was spot on, but the matter is more complicated once you scratch the surface.  Ferguson did indeed rotate much more at home than he did away.  He made a massive 4.00 changes-per-game last season in home contests and only 2.61 changes-per-game away.  The statement of a more stable away side is relative in terms of Manchester United, but put into the context of the league as a whole it still represented an incredibly high number of changes.

For Benitez the split between home and away looks fairly even, however the average figure is clouded by the nine changes made by Benitez before Liverpool’s away contest at Portsmouth the weekend before their Champions League semi-final second leg against Chelsea.  Remove that figure and Benitez made 2.71 changes-per-game in away contests last season – a similar figure to that of Ferguson’s.

Add to that knowledge that the median number of changes made by each manager in away games was two and that both managers made two or less changes from between away games a total of 10 times and it is hard to say definitively that Benitez rotated more than Ferguson away from home. Both look for slightly more stability away from home and make fewer changes away than they do overall. Therefore, the single biggest difference between the two (last year at least) is actually how much more Ferguson rotates at home than Benitez.

So far this season there is too few data to make any meaningful conclusion.  However, Benitez has made three more changes than the United manager in one less contest.   It is also true that Ferguson’s options have been severely reduced by injury in the early games, with many major players missing and consequently making quality rotation impossible.     

It was refreshing to finally hear someone bring some reality to the debate. However, the full truth was still not revealed. All teams rotate through injury, fitness and tactics to some extent, but some more than others.  Benitez and Ferguson were definitely the runaway leaders last season, but while one was criticised the other used essentially the same policy and won the title without even a column inch on the subject.

When will smart analysis of games return?

http://www.thefootballreview.co.uk/articles/article.aspx?id=23

Offline Benimar Col

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Re: MYTH BUSTING: Rotation revisited
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2007, 12:59:27 pm »
mind boggling info  :sad

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Re: MYTH BUSTING: Rotation revisited
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2007, 01:00:47 pm »
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Offline MattLFC08

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Re: MYTH BUSTING: Rotation revisited
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2007, 01:03:05 pm »
Heard it all before, but hopefully some others will see it for the first time, and that will be good.  :-*

Rotation sucks, long live rotation...  ;D

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Offline RayO'Biscan

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Re: MYTH BUSTING: Rotation revisited
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2007, 01:05:39 pm »
Heard it all before, but hopefully some others will see it for the first time, and that will be good.  :-

That is exactly why I posted it.

Offline b_joseph

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Re: MYTH BUSTING: Rotation revisited
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2007, 01:14:12 pm »
Rotation isnt and never will be the problem. The problem is who you are rotating.

SAF will rotate alot..but you always know that CRonaldo, Rooney and Scholes, will always be in the XI. When you have that set solid attacking group..and couple that with 3 defensive players who dont get rotated ( much )..it doesnt matter who you rotate from there.

If CRonaldo was on the bench every other game...or Scholes was riding the pine every other game. The media would get on SAF also.

Offline Guz-kop

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Re: MYTH BUSTING: Rotation revisited
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2007, 01:25:03 pm »
Rotation isnt and never will be the problem. The problem is who you are rotating.

SAF will rotate alot..but you always know that CRonaldo, Rooney and Scholes, will always be in the XI. When you have that set solid attacking group..and couple that with 3 defensive players who dont get rotated ( much )..it doesnt matter who you rotate from there.

If CRonaldo was on the bench every other game...or Scholes was riding the pine every other game. The media would get on SAF also.

Exactly. I'd like to know how many games the quartet of Rooney, Ronaldo, Giggs and Scholes played when they were available. They cant have been rotated/rested/dropped that often because a) Saha and Solskjaer were injured a lot and the likes of Park aren't as good as those four. Our mainstay players are at the back plus Gerrard. In 05/06 Momo, Alonso and Crouch played most games but since then we've got more and better options and I think Rafa is laying down the challenge to the likes of those 3 players (+ Mascherano, Kuyt etc.) to prove they're good enough to form the core of the side.

Also, another point is that Ferguson and Benitez's rotation is different. Rafa likes variation. Look at our 4/5 central midfielders - Gerrard, Alonso, Sissoko, Mascherano and Lucas. They're all completely different footballers. Our forwards - Crouch, Kuyt, Voronin and Torres - none of them are alike. I think it's clear Rafa wants a squad of 20+ players capable of playing in any conditions, against any team and under any tactical plan whether it's Juve midweek or Crystal Palace on the weekend. United are different, they go out and back their own ability to beat whoever they face, with largely the same set of players. I dont think Ferguson often makes that many tactical changes before a game. Maybe in the later stages in Europe where it's more important but not against the likes of Birmingham at home (though we all know the players who played should have won that game).
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Offline rednewbie

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Re: MYTH BUSTING: Rotation revisited
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2007, 01:26:26 pm »
Rotation isnt and never will be the problem. The problem is who you are rotating.

SAF will rotate alot..but you always know that CRonaldo, Rooney and Scholes, will always be in the XI. When you have that set solid attacking group..and couple that with 3 defensive players who dont get rotated ( much )..it doesnt matter who you rotate from there.

If CRonaldo was on the bench every other game...or Scholes was riding the pine every other game. The media would get on SAF also.

hmmm and when rafa rotates, carra, gerrard, finnan arbeloa and these days pennant are always in the team

Offline Tom_B

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Re: MYTH BUSTING: Rotation revisited
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2007, 01:26:37 pm »
It's who you rotate and when you rotate.
We're on our way to glory...

Offline b_joseph

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Re: MYTH BUSTING: Rotation revisited
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2007, 01:36:53 pm »
hmmm and when rafa rotates, carra, gerrard, finnan arbeloa and these days pennant are always in the team
What about our attackers?

Notice I said CRonaldo, Scholes and Rooney. I know for sure, that when we play United ( barring injury or suspension ), those 3 will definitely play.
The same cannot be said for our attacking players.

Offline ScouserTommy37

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Re: MYTH BUSTING: Rotation revisited
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2007, 01:38:12 pm »
It's who you rotate and when you rotate.

shhhh they don't like the truth

RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAFA BENITEZ!
Come on RAWK lets ave it and you can bring your fuckin dinner as well.

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Offline Gnurglan

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Re: MYTH BUSTING: Rotation revisited
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2007, 02:02:20 pm »
Rotation isnt and never will be the problem. The problem is who you are rotating.

That's a valid point. But if we take C. Ronaldo and compare his 34 games in the PL for the Mancs last season, we'll see that Pennant also played in 34 games for us. I think Gerrard played in 36. Alonso played in 32. Kuyt played in 34. I think it comes down to details.

I agree that we use four strikers while other teams may use less than that. The attacking midfielders and the strikers are the ones that will have to be different to change the tactics. 

In total, I think too much is made of our rotation. It's like zonal marking. If we fail to win, it's because we use it. If we perform, it's because of the players. And as always, it's the players that didn't play/start that would have been the solution.

When we put Torres on the bench vs Birmingham, it's because of that decision that we didn't win. When Torres misses a handful against Wigan nobody cares, because Benayoun got the winner. Had we not won, we would have blamed Rafa for playing Torres in the cup, or we would have wanted Crouch, Voronin, Sissoko, Babel or Benayoun on from the start.

Got the info from www.soccerbase.com

        * * * * * *


"The key isn't the system itself, but how the players adapt on the pitch. It doesn't matter if it's 4-3-3 or 4-4-2, it's the role of the players that counts." Rafa Benitez

Offline Gnurglan

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Re: MYTH BUSTING: Rotation revisited
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2007, 02:05:09 pm »
What about our attackers?

Notice I said CRonaldo, Scholes and Rooney. I know for sure, that when we play United ( barring injury or suspension ), those 3 will definitely play.
The same cannot be said for our attacking players.

I think we'll use Torres, Kuyt and Pennant against them, but you're right, we can't say for certain that those three will play, whereas we'd all be surprised if the trio from the Mancs didn't play.

What does it mean? That they have better players than us or that we have a stronger squad?

        * * * * * *


"The key isn't the system itself, but how the players adapt on the pitch. It doesn't matter if it's 4-3-3 or 4-4-2, it's the role of the players that counts." Rafa Benitez

Offline gamble

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Re: MYTH BUSTING: Rotation revisited
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2007, 02:24:28 pm »
got the milan match playing in the background. when all this rotation malarkey was being discussed last week someone did make the point, how many other managers/top european clubs rotate as much as we do? I don't know the statistics, but it does make you think. why can milan play pretty much a consistent team every match for years?? i don't understand what's best for us. hope we figure it out soon tho.

Offline 4pool

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Re: MYTH BUSTING: Rotation revisited
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2007, 02:34:11 pm »
Rotation isnt and never will be the problem. The problem is who you are rotating.

SAF will rotate alot..but you always know that CRonaldo, Rooney and Scholes, will always be in the XI. When you have that set solid attacking group..and couple that with 3 defensive players who dont get rotated ( much )..it doesnt matter who you rotate from there.

If CRonaldo was on the bench every other game...or Scholes was riding the pine every other game. The media would get on SAF also.


There goes your theory...

Man Utd's line up 2 V 0  Liverpool 10/22/06

Liverpool Reina, Finnan, Carragher, Hyypia, Riise, Alonso (Crouch 70), Sissoko, Gerrard, Garcia, Gonzalez (Pennant 51), Kuyt
Unused Subs Dudek, Paletta, Warnock
Goal 
Booking Sissoko (26), Finnan (75), Crouch (76)
Red Cards 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Manchester United Van Der Saar, Neville (O'Shea 77), Vidic, Ferdinand, Evra (Brown 90), Scholes, Giggs, Fletcher, Rooney, Saha, Carrick
Unused Subs Kuszczak, Ronaldo, Solskjaer
Goal Scholes (38), Ferdinand (65)
Booking Vidic (68)
Red Cards 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Referee Graham Poll
Att 75828
Venue Old Trafford
======================================================================

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Offline timtam_121

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Re: MYTH BUSTING: Rotation revisited
« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2007, 02:35:16 pm »
The only reason why there is this outcry is that to many fans, Torres has reached the "spine" of the team status, but to Rafa, he has not. Jermaine Pennant is probably closer to that status right now.

Why? Fans sometimes buy into hype a bit earlier, couple with the fact that we really might have the squad this year, the fans get especially impatient, and thus more easily irritated over a 0-0 draw (hardly the end of the world). Its not criticism, but mere human nature. I am guilty of being desperate to see Torres every match too

To us, we have seen the bits of class, the goals, thus we want him in every game. To Rafa, he seen in training that maybe he would be better if he was bedded in slowly. Play him in games where he thinks he will be most effective first to build his confidence (a team like reading, Chelsea, and surprise surprise - Wigan, that seem to want to leave more space for Torres to run because they are not 10-man behind ball). I remember *spits and curse* Moyes doing that to Rooney, Wenger doing that to many of his young stars (Reyes, Van persie)...

Note: Kuyt was nearly our spine of the team up front last season - He was rarely rotated in the league. It was always crouch and bellamy fighting to be his partner. So yes, Rafa DOES keep a spine, its just who he views as this. So leave your knives at home for now? Maybe give Torres another 5-10 games and you'll never see his name off the sheet again..

Just my 2 cents.

Offline WizaRedOfAus

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Re: MYTH BUSTING: Rotation revisited
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2007, 02:38:55 pm »
There are lies, damn lies, and statistics!
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Re: MYTH BUSTING: Rotation revisited
« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2007, 02:41:32 pm »
It's who you rotate and when you rotate.

I agree, you should never rotate your best striker in the league.
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Offline ScouserTommy37

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Re: MYTH BUSTING: Rotation revisited
« Reply #18 on: September 30, 2007, 02:43:34 pm »
I agree, you should never rotate your best striker in the league.

Nor your back 4 if you can help it!
Come on RAWK lets ave it and you can bring your fuckin dinner as well.

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Re: MYTH BUSTING: Rotation revisited
« Reply #19 on: September 30, 2007, 02:44:39 pm »
4pool - Do your research. Ronaldo had flu for the 2 days prior to that match.

Offline b_joseph

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Re: MYTH BUSTING: Rotation revisited
« Reply #20 on: September 30, 2007, 02:46:22 pm »


What does it mean? That they have better players than us or that we have a stronger squad?
We have a much better squad..but they have a better attacing options.

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Re: MYTH BUSTING: Rotation revisited
« Reply #21 on: September 30, 2007, 02:47:11 pm »
Nor your back 4 if you can help it!

Sack Arsene!!!!
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Offline ScouserTommy37

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Re: MYTH BUSTING: Rotation revisited
« Reply #22 on: September 30, 2007, 02:47:49 pm »
4pool - Do your research. Ronaldo had flu for the 2 days prior to that match.

Mate you are talking to someone who thinks Carrick played for United nearly a decade ago because it was there for him to copy and paste.
Come on RAWK lets ave it and you can bring your fuckin dinner as well.

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Offline b_joseph

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Re: MYTH BUSTING: Rotation revisited
« Reply #23 on: September 30, 2007, 02:49:24 pm »


In total, I think too much is made of our rotation. It's like zonal marking. If we fail to win, it's because we use it. If we perform, it's because of the players. And as always, it's the players that didn't play/start that would have been the solution.

When we put Torres on the bench vs Birmingham, it's because of that decision that we didn't win. When Torres misses a handful against Wigan nobody cares, because Benayoun got the winner. Had we not won, we would have blamed Rafa for playing Torres in the cup, or we would have wanted Crouch, Voronin, Sissoko, Babel or Benayoun on from the start.

Got the info from www.soccerbase.com
Thats the problem that Rafa has created for himself. When things go poorly, people will always blame any form of rotation because there is always 1 or 2 players who people will think should be in a starting XI.

At the end of the day, all the scrutiny will stop when he wins the league. Simple as.

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Re: MYTH BUSTING: Rotation revisited
« Reply #24 on: September 30, 2007, 02:49:41 pm »
Rotation isnt and never will be the problem. The problem is who you are rotating.

SAF will rotate alot..but you always know that CRonaldo, Rooney and Scholes, will always be in the XI. When you have that set solid attacking group..and couple that with 3 defensive players who dont get rotated ( much )..it doesnt matter who you rotate from there.

If CRonaldo was on the bench every other game...or Scholes was riding the pine every other game. The media would get on SAF also.



Carragher, Reina and Gerrard all started more league games than any United player last season.
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Offline ScouserTommy37

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Re: MYTH BUSTING: Rotation revisited
« Reply #25 on: September 30, 2007, 02:51:51 pm »
Sack Arsene!!!!

For what???? His back 4 are Clichy - Senderos - Toure - Sagna and have been whenever available.

He swopped his keeper because he lost faith in Lehmann, which is fair enough.
Come on RAWK lets ave it and you can bring your fuckin dinner as well.

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Re: MYTH BUSTING: Rotation revisited
« Reply #26 on: September 30, 2007, 02:52:56 pm »


Carragher, Reina and Gerrard all started more league games than any United player last season.

Tenner Torres wont. ;) Anyway that could have been down to injury.
Come on RAWK lets ave it and you can bring your fuckin dinner as well.

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Re: MYTH BUSTING: Rotation revisited
« Reply #27 on: September 30, 2007, 02:53:28 pm »
4pool - Do your research. Ronaldo had flu for the 2 days prior to that match.

But he was still available for the bench. I find it funny that Ronaldo having flu doesn't count as 'rotation' but when Carragher and Riise got injured first game of last season bringing in Agger and Aurelio for the next game was put down as 'rotation', even though it was a forced change. Where do you differentiate?

Ronaldo & Rooney probably played every game they were fit last season in the league, but Gerrard, Alonso et al played roughly the same number of league games. So there's clearly the spine there. People are welcome to suggest that Rafa, unlike perhaps Ferguson, has changed fit players in his team, but in return they must take into account that perhaps our players were available when Ferguson's were not because of the way we rotate.

Too many people - whatever their opinion on rotation - are content to just look at one side of the arguement and never delve deeper into why it occurs.
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Re: MYTH BUSTING: Rotation revisited
« Reply #28 on: September 30, 2007, 02:54:51 pm »
Tenner Torres wont. ;) Anyway that could have been down to injury.

And they could be injured because they don't rotate.
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Re: MYTH BUSTING: Rotation revisited
« Reply #29 on: September 30, 2007, 02:57:24 pm »
But he was still available for the bench. I find it funny that Ronaldo having flu doesn't count as 'rotation' but when Carragher and Riise got injured first game of last season bringing in Agger and Aurelio for the next game was put down as 'rotation', even though it was a forced change. Where do you differentiate?

Ronaldo & Rooney probably played every game they were fit last season in the league, but Gerrard, Alonso et al played roughly the same number of league games. So there's clearly the spine there. People are welcome to suggest that Rafa, unlike perhaps Ferguson, has changed fit players in his team, but in return they must take into account that perhaps our players were available when Ferguson's were not because of the way we rotate.

Too many people - whatever their opinion on rotation - are content to just look at one side of the arguement and never delve deeper into why it occurs.


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Re: MYTH BUSTING: Rotation revisited
« Reply #30 on: September 30, 2007, 02:57:26 pm »
People are welcome to suggest that Rafa, unlike perhaps Ferguson, has changed fit players in his team, but in return they must take into account that perhaps our players were available when Ferguson's were not because of the way we rotate.

You also have to take into account that outside their starting 11, the Mancs didn't have as many first teamers in their squad - especially when there were to Solskjaer and Saha.
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Re: MYTH BUSTING: Rotation revisited
« Reply #31 on: September 30, 2007, 02:59:44 pm »
4pool - Do your research. Ronaldo had flu for the 2 days prior to that match.

He was good enough to be on the bench, wasn't he?

Mate you are talking to someone who thinks Carrick played for United nearly a decade ago because it was there for him to copy and paste.

yep..sure did.

Even though I explained I lifted it from .tv...and even though I explained I was at work and did not have my footy sources there to check..and even though you never ever made your point when asked to prove it, your whole memory is my mistake and not your inability to prove your point.
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Re: MYTH BUSTING: Rotation revisited
« Reply #32 on: September 30, 2007, 03:00:13 pm »
But he was still available for the bench. I find it funny that Ronaldo having flu doesn't count as 'rotation' but when Carragher and Riise got injured first game of last season bringing in Agger and Aurelio for the next game was put down as 'rotation', even though it was a forced change. Where do you differentiate?

Ronaldo & Rooney probably played every game they were fit last season in the league, but Gerrard, Alonso et al played roughly the same number of league games. So there's clearly the spine there. People are welcome to suggest that Rafa, unlike perhaps Ferguson, has changed fit players in his team, but in return they must take into account that perhaps our players were available when Ferguson's were not because of the way we rotate.

Too many people - whatever their opinion on rotation - are content to just look at one side of the arguement and never delve deeper into why it occurs.
Nobody with half a brain thought that it was rotation last season when Carra and JAR got hurt in Sheffield.

Ronaldo had the flu..he was available if needed..but we got our arses handed to us..therefore he wasnt needed.

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Re: MYTH BUSTING: Rotation revisited
« Reply #33 on: September 30, 2007, 03:02:49 pm »


Carragher, Reina and Gerrard all started more league games than any United player last season.
Notice that I said...attacking players and defensive players.

Our main attacking players have no idea as to when they will play games. I really think that hurts our chances of every being able of becoming a great attacking team.
It hurts your rhythm and fluidity.

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Re: MYTH BUSTING: Rotation revisited
« Reply #34 on: September 30, 2007, 03:06:23 pm »
Nobody with half a brain thought that it was rotation last season when Carra and JAR got hurt in Sheffield.

No, but when it comes to sorting out the statistics at the end of the season those are two changes that will be put down as Benitez rotation rather than making necessary changes due to injury. Do you see my point? No one is going to look at each case of 'rotation' in isolation sadly, which is what you did with Ronaldo. Whilst I can see your point, the same thing can apply to a few cases where we've rotated.

Quote
Ronaldo had the flu..he was available if needed..but we got our arses handed to us..therefore he wasnt needed.

S'interesting that. I wonder why the same logic can't be applied to Torres being on the bench against Birmingham and Portsmouth recently. I'd also love to know what the reaction would be if Torres was left on the bench with flu - despite being available - if we were about to play the Mancs at home. I can't imagine it would receive universal backing.
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Re: MYTH BUSTING: Rotation revisited
« Reply #35 on: September 30, 2007, 03:09:27 pm »
So Fergie never had the press hound him about leaving Becks out? or RVN? or Rooney?


Some people have convenient memories because Fergie does in fact rest fit players.

The problem is we don't religiously follow Man Utd's line up changes for the 38 league matches or 50-60 matches per year they play like we do Liverpools.

So far Carlos Tevez has started every League match. Mainly due to Rooney not being fit and Saha also coming back from injury.

As Rooney is now getting match fit as well as Saha, is it not possible for Fergie to rotate  a fit Carlos now? Will the media hound Fergie for rotating a "regular" should they drop points.

Fergie hasn't had the luxury of 4 fit strikers. As the season progresses maybe the "rotation" whinge will hit Man Utd as well..
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Re: MYTH BUSTING: Rotation revisited
« Reply #36 on: September 30, 2007, 03:13:20 pm »
No, but when it comes to sorting out the statistics at the end of the season those are two changes that will be put down as Benitez rotation rather than making necessary changes due to injury. Do you see my point? No one is going to look at each case of 'rotation' in isolation sadly, which is what you did with Ronaldo. Whilst I can see your point, the same thing can apply to a few cases where we've rotated.
I see your point.

Quote
S'interesting that. I wonder why the same logic can't be applied to Torres being on the bench against Birmingham and Portsmouth recently. I'd also love to know what the reaction would be if Torres was left on the bench with flu - despite being available - if we were about to play the Mancs at home. I can't imagine it would receive universal backing.
I can only speak for myself...but I would accept anyone being on the bench if they we physically ailing.

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Re: MYTH BUSTING: Rotation revisited
« Reply #37 on: September 30, 2007, 03:18:55 pm »
4pool - Yes, he does rest fit players. But more often than not, you can predict the XI that United would send out to battle.

Like Tom said..Its who and when.

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Re: MYTH BUSTING: Rotation revisited
« Reply #38 on: September 30, 2007, 03:23:20 pm »
Its all to do with the result,we were awful yesterday rotation or not as was torres who couldnt hit a barn door,but we won so nobody cares.Since the Derby game,we have played no better in the league than last season and our luck will soon run out.So Rafa had better start having a spine that never changes like Utd or we will not win the league under Rafa.
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Re: MYTH BUSTING: Rotation revisited
« Reply #39 on: September 30, 2007, 03:39:52 pm »
He was good enough to be on the bench, wasn't he?

yep..sure did.

Even though I explained I lifted it from .tv...and even though I explained I was at work and did not have my footy sources there to check..and even though you never ever made your point when asked to prove it, your whole memory is my mistake and not your inability to prove your point.

Lad you shouldn't NEED footy sources to know that Carrick wasnt a United player in 1997!

I proved my point countless number of times. There is a whole thread devoted to it and not once did anyone give any factual evidence that could dismiss anything I posted.

Remember the days of that midfield the Mancs had

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