Author Topic: Sunday Times on Benitez, transfers and the 'power vacuum'  (Read 4780 times)

Offline Consigliere

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Sunday Times on Benitez, transfers and the 'power vacuum'
« on: May 27, 2007, 10:47:24 am »
You have to wonder whether Parry has simply been scarred after Houllier's '10 games to greatness', Diouf, Diao, Cheryrou, Cisse transfers. Having said that, you can't say Benitez isn't justified in trying to put pressure on the board to act. I think three players are all we need - a world class No.9, Carlos Tevez, and a world class winger or wide mid either on the left or the right.

From The Sunday Times
May 27, 2007
England is Rafa’s priority
Hugh McIlvanney: The Voice of Sport

It was always unrealistic to think that foreign conquest could go on compensating for domestic inadequacy. Ultimately Rafa Benitez’s management of Liverpool will probably be defined by success or failure in locations less exotic than Istanbul and Athens. Bolton, Blackburn, Portsmouth and Fulham come instantly to mind. Last season Liverpool were beaten in Premiership matches in all of those places (plus five others) while gaining only 22 of the 57 points that were at stake when they played away from Anfield. That dismal litany is perhaps the handiest illustration of how far Benitez’s squad fell short of being respectable contenders in the country’s top league. When they finished in third position, level on points with Arsenal at 68 but narrowly ahead on goal difference, they were humiliatingly distant from Chelsea’s 83 and Manchester United’s 89.

The most telling riposte to such statistics is, of course, to reach for even worse figures, to recall that after Benitez’s first season in charge, 2004-05, Liverpool’s points aggregate when coming fifth in the Premiership was 58, 37 inferior to Chelsea’s. Yet the Champions League trophy was carried back to Merseyside that summer. Which puts us squarely in the old minefield of comparative glory. In Athens last week somebody lobbed a nicely loaded question at me: wouldn’t Manchester United be happy to swap the English title they have just won for the European crown? Yes was the automatic answer. But the response would have to be altogether different if we asked whether United and their supporters would fancy exchanging their nine Premiership triumphs for a single continental championship. Benitez deserves immense credit for adding so dramatically to Liverpool’s magnificent tradition of achievement in Europe, with two appearances in the Champions League final in three years.

But surely nobody is suggesting the Spaniard has such a special talent for operating in the greatest club tournament that his team’s struggles in their own backyard needn’t be a cause for concern. Potency in the Premiership is not only a natural basis for challenges in the wider arena but an enriching context for anything accomplished there. Having been masters of Europe five times (it has taken the combined efforts of United, Nottingham Forest and Aston Villa to equal that total) is especially satisfying for Liverpool because their 18 national titles also constitute a record. Back in their period of sustained dominance in what was then the European Cup, when they won four finals between 1977 and 1984, they were consistently powerful in the First Division, collecting six championships during those eight seasons. Now Liverpool’s chances of flourishing on one side of the Channel while they remain mediocre on the other must be extremely limited. And even if they could do that, an English championship drought dating from 1990 would amount to a nagging accusation. Benitez unhesitatingly concedes that being competitive in the Premiership is an inescapable priority, hence his slightly ominous demands for his American employers to finance a drastic overhaul of player resources. His determination to make substantial changes won’t be diminished by the knowledge that in Greece on Wednesday Liverpool looked far more like winners than they did in Istanbul two years ago. Whereas they succeeded against Milan then because the match was miraculously distorted by six unimaginably freakish minutes, they lost in midweek because they could not muster the killing thrust to dispose of blatantly beatable opposition on a night when Carlo Ancelotti’s men exhibited only isolated traces of the skill, and scarcely any of the urgency and assurance, that had demolished an underperforming Manchester United in their semi-final.

Surrendering a goal to a grossly deflected free kick at the end of a first half they had thoroughly controlled was a monstrous psychological blow for Liverpool but there was still plenty of time to punish decisively the uncharacteristic uncertainty and incompetence in the Italian ranks (Andrea Pirlo was giving the ball away as if he had heard it ticking, Kaka was largely subdued by Javier Mascherano, Clarence Seedorf and Rino Gattuso were inconceivably peripheral and, in spite of Alessandro Nesta’s authoritative interventions, there was a susceptibility to disorder at the back). However, the required penetration never materialised.

Jermaine Pennant’s liveliness didn’t produce enough effective deliveries from the right wing, Dirk Kuyt was a blunt instrument in his spearheading role, the tactic of deploying Steven Gerrard in close support of Kuyt was increasingly unproductive — it might have yielded more if the captain had elected to drop a little deeper and come at defenders as a surging force — and neither Bolo Zenden nor subsequently Harry Kewell could offer inspiration from wide on the left. So the good work in midfield of Mascherano and the impressively creative Xabi Alonso went unrewarded.

Milan were frequently uncomfortable but seldom in clear danger of being broken and eventually a moment of brilliance from Kaka and Filippo Inzaghi was conclusive. Running through that story of frustration there was, as perhaps its core element, the stubbornness of Benitez. Single-minded adherence to his individualistic view of how his team should play has served Liverpool well, at least in Europe, but he can be guilty of damagingly perverse, mainly conservative prejudices. Several showed in Athens, none more influential than the delaying of the introduction of Peter Crouch until the 78th minute. When the manager launches into the promised summer clearout at Anfield, maybe the jettisoning process should include a few of his own eccentricities.

----

 From The Sunday Times
May 27, 2007
Power vacuum
Angry Rafa Benitez can’t sign players – because there is nobody at Anfield to write a cheque
Jonathan Northcroft

Rafael Benitez kept blowing his nose as he spoke to the press on Thursday. His complaints about the transfer inertia of his football club’s hierarchy were caustic; a savaging with sniffles. In the lobby of Athens’ Pentelikon Hotel sat Steven Gerrard, ashen, bent forward, chin resting on folded arms. The strain of losing a Champions League final attacked manager and captain physically.

You are supposed never to walk alone at Liverpool. You celebrate and suffer as one, but infuriating Benitez was a feeling he had been deserted. Tom Hicks, George Gillett and their families were already on their way home to the US. Benitez made it clear he no longer believed Rick Parry could deliver signings: what about Gillett’s son, Foster, installed by the new owners to run Anfield? “Yes,” glowered Benitez, “but he is not here now.” Foster was on the plane with Pops. When did Benitez need him? “Today.”

Liverpool finished 2006-07 not only trophyless but with a power vacuum swirling at its heart. Benitez’s polemic about the need to spend big and change the club’s “structure” after defeat by Milan was more than just an attack on Parry, as it was reported. The manager has succeeded, with his usual painstaking effort, in coaxing at least two “top-class targets” to the verge of joining Liverpool, only to have to keep them waiting while superiors dally. Benitez spent a long time hinting to journalists at the root problem until finally being pinned down. He kept saying he trusted Hicks and Gillett’s promise to fund signings, so why no transfers? Is the money in Liverpool’s bank account, but there is nobody to sign the cheques? “Okay,” Benitez nodded. “You know.”

The manager has grown apart from Parry, Anfield’s chief executive, over several issues, including Liverpool being committed to two friendly tournaments, in Holland and Asia, this preseason. Benitez suggested Parry no longer has authority to push transfers through. Foster Gillett will not be Liverpool’s managing director until August. With Parry a lame duck and power held by absentee barons without their own man on the ground, the club feels paralysed. “We can improve the squad, but we have to do it now. It’s a crucial time. We can’t say, ‘We’ll see what happens in August’. Then you will lose your targets,” Benitez said.

He may seem like the avuncular propietario of a neighbourhood tapas bar but Benitez is as political as Jose Mourinho. On the surface throwing barbs at Gillett and Hicks seems unwise, given the my-way-or-the-high-way culture of American business leaders, but Benitez’s attack was carefully worked out. The Americans’ strategy relies on building a new Anfield, with a 70,000-plus capacity, and they need the fans with them. But the supporters are with Benitez and so are the players, Jamie Carragher and Gerrard especially.

Rather than admonishing him, the Americans have already moved to placate Benitez. Late on Friday there was a transatlantic conference call involving Foster and George Gillett, Hicks and his son Tommy, Parry and Benitez. “We had a long call and agreed on actions to be taken with our own players and with possible new players and we are all comfortable with our plan,” said Tom Hicks. He excused Benitez’s ire in Athens: “He was very upset the day after the match.”

Benitez’s challenge to the owners is to back up their words with action. The current stasis is affecting Liverpool’s most important players. Despite reports that Gerrard and Carragher had extended their contracts, nothing has been finalised. There is delay over new deals for Xabi Alonso and Jose Reina. On Wednesday night in Athens, Benitez held a powwow with Gerrard, Carragher, Reina and Alonso. They are his inner circle, the players around whom he sees Liverpool’s future being built. “We were talking about the game, the quality of the opposition players, the tactics we had. Xabi, Reina, Gerrard, Carra want to know that you have good players ready to sign. The problem is if we spend time, if we waste time, we can’t sign the players we want,” said Benitez.

Were Gerrard and company as “frustrated and angry” as he? “Yes. The players must be happy and have confidence in the team.” Should Liverpool worry about losing some of the quartet if the impasse over new contracts continues? “Could be. Because they are good players and they could have some offers.”

Benitez is about to go on holiday for a week but will continue working via his mobile phone and said he would be “disappointed” if at least one new signing is not clinched by the time he gets back. His previous three seasons at Liverpool make him pessimistic. A lack of funds in the pre-American era, coupled with what Benitez sees as Parry’s less-than-dynamic modus operandi, saw the manager put a deal in place for Nemanja Vidic, only to be gazumped by Manchester United. Simao Sabrosa was so keen to join Liverpool last summer he was sending messages to Benitez until transfer deadline day, but ended up staying at Benfica. He is back on Benitez’s shopping list along with Gabriel Milito, Jefferson Farfan, David Silva, David Villa and Samuel Eto’o.

Athens exposed the best and worst of the present Liverpool. Through effort rather than technical flourishes they had Milan pinned down until Filippo Inzaghi’s lucky opener. Yet they are also limited, lacking invention and personnel to alter a defensive gameplan at 1-0 down.

If Benitez gets the big money and quick action he wants, especially after being so bolshie, it will be his make-or-break moment. The idea he has already spent £100m is creative accounting by his critics. Benitez’s net spending is £44m over three seasons. For that he has twice finished above Arsenal and won as many trophies as Manchester United. “You must be clear. I am happy with the new owners. I trust them and they want to finish as high as possible because they are winners – this is one thing I like about them. But they need to understand the business here. We have just signed Lucas Leiva, a top-class midfielder, 20, the Golden Boot in Brazil. There was another big club after him but we did a fantastic job. It’s not always a question of the amount you pay, but how quickly you move.”

Rafa Benitez in the transfer market

- Since Rafa Benitez joined Liverpool in June 2004 he has signed 29 players. He has also unloaded 36, thereby cutting his net outlay to around £44m. His signings are:

Josemi (Malaga £2m, now Villareal), Luis Garcia (Barcelona £6m), Xabi Alonso (Sociedad £10.5m), Antonio Nunez (R Madrid swap, now Celta Vigo), Mauricio Pellegrino (Valencia free, now Alaves), Fernando Morientes (R Madrid £6.3m, now Valencia), Scott Carson (Leeds £750,000), Jose Reina (Villarreal £6m), Mark Gonzalez (Albacete £4.5m), Boudewijn Zenden (Middlesbro free), Antonio Barragan (Sevilla free, now Deportivo), Mohamed Sissoko (Valencia £5.6m), Peter Crouch (So’ton £7m), Godwin Antwi (Zaragoza free), Jack Hobbs (Lincoln free), Paul Anderson (Hull free), Jan Kromkamp (Villarreal swap, now PSV), David Martin (MK Dons free), Daniel Agger (Brondby £5.8m), Robbie Fowler (Man City free), Craig Bellamy (Blackburn £6m), Gabriel Paletta (Ban? eld £2m), Fabiano Aurelio (Valencia free), Jermaine Pennant (Birmingham £6.7m), Dirk Kuyt (Feyenoord £9m), Nabil El Zhar (St Etienne free), Alvaro Arbeloa (Deportivo £2.6m), Francisco Duran (Malaga free), Javier Mascherano (West Ham free)

Possible targets: Gabriel Milito (Zaragoza, defender) £8m Jefferson Farfan (PSV, striker) £10m Simao Sabrosa (Ben? ca, winger) £12m Samuel Eto’o (Barcelona, striker) £30m David Villa (Valencia, striker) £35m

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premiership/liverpool/article1845157.ece

Offline HiroProtagonist

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Re: Sunday Times on Benitez, transfers and the 'power vacuum'
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2007, 10:51:01 am »
Jefferson Farfan :-X

Offline xavidub

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Re: Sunday Times on Benitez, transfers and the 'power vacuum'
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2007, 11:09:30 am »
You have to try very hard to see what's going on in front of your face

Offline all_funkt_up

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Re: Sunday Times on Benitez, transfers and the 'power vacuum'
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2007, 11:12:59 am »
Jefferson Farfan :-X

Hmmmmmmmm

Seen him 5 times this season. Never been impressed. Would very much doubt if he was really a target for us.
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Re: Sunday Times on Benitez, transfers and the 'power vacuum'
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2007, 12:34:53 pm »
Think this is defiantly a case of a problem solved, with the echo & now the sundays reporting on problems that have skillfully been sorted out by a trans Atlantic conference call.

Truth is we will only know if all is well, if new contracts for xabi, Reina, Gerrard, Carragher ( & Finnan) are announced in the immediate future, along with at least one or maybe two big money signing.

That's my take on it anyway.

Offline Tom_B

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Re: Sunday Times on Benitez, transfers and the 'power vacuum'
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2007, 12:59:31 pm »
The first article is just one-sided shite. Just completely ignores last season when we were a point behind the Mancs and had our highest points tally ever in the Prem.

Gotta say too, a net outlay of £44m is less than £15m a season. Sums it all up on why Chelsea and the Mancs are ahead of us.
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Offline rafasmagic

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Re: Sunday Times on Benitez, transfers and the 'power vacuum'
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2007, 01:04:21 pm »
Would like to see a bit more of El Zhar this season.

Sunday Times have a lot to say as well ;D
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Offline redpride9

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Re: Sunday Times on Benitez, transfers and the 'power vacuum'
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2007, 01:25:46 pm »
Why does their always seem to be a serious lack of communication at liverpool??.. it was the same when Gerrad nearly left..

The board need to put their money where their mouth is and back Rafa if we want no 19... why are we always left behind the top 2 sides when signing top class players...??

We won it 5 times........

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Re: Sunday Times on Benitez, transfers and the 'power vacuum'
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2007, 01:42:06 pm »
The first article is just one-sided shite. Just completely ignores last season when we were a point behind the Mancs and had our highest points tally ever in the Prem.

Gotta say too, a net outlay of £44m is less than £15m a season. Sums it all up on why Chelsea and the Mancs are ahead of us.

Last season is last season. We were way off the pace this time.
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Offline a partridge in seat_5c

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Re: Sunday Times on Benitez, transfers and the 'power vacuum'
« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2007, 01:48:58 pm »
First article from McIlvanney is fucking irritating. Because we've finished the season last they can stick the boot in, while Wenger/Arsenal, who have had a disastrous season by their standards, get clean away with it. No mention of the achievement of actually getting to the Final itself, which is far harder than winning either of the domestic "trophies".


Second article highlights a concern raised by having foreign ownership, that communication is taking place across thousands of miles and half-a-dozen time zones. I guess this won't be satisfactorily resolved until this Foster Gillett character leaves his post at Springfield Nuclear Power Plant and arrives in this country on a permanent basis.

There also have to be concerns that the Americans will have absolutely no idea whatsoever about how and when the sah-cah transfer market works. They'd better learn quick. Sounds like they've got about a week.

Possibly, despite hearing Carra and Gerrard et al eulogising over Rafa's professionalism, they've still been caught out by the level of it. No time for a post-match cry in his vinto tinto, Rafa's on the dog and bone trying to sign players for next season.

Offline Gnurglan

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Re: Sunday Times on Benitez, transfers and the 'power vacuum'
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2007, 01:53:44 pm »
Second article highlights a concern raised by having foreign ownership, that communication is taking place across thousands of miles and half-a-dozen time zones. I guess this won't be satisfactorily resolved until this Foster Gillett character leaves his post at Springfield Nuclear Power Plant and arrives in this country on a permanent basis.

There also have to be concerns that the Americans will have absolutely no idea whatsoever about how and when the sah-cah transfer market works. They'd better learn quick. Sounds like they've got about a week.


;D @ the power plant thing.

True about the foreign ownership. The transfer market is another thing. They will not learn it in a week. Probably not in a year. They will need to rely heavily on the people we already have within the club.

        * * * * * *


"The key isn't the system itself, but how the players adapt on the pitch. It doesn't matter if it's 4-3-3 or 4-4-2, it's the role of the players that counts." Rafa Benitez

Offline edeyj

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Re: Sunday Times on Benitez, transfers and the 'power vacuum'
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2007, 02:07:06 pm »
Media overreaction bollocks IMO.

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Re: Sunday Times on Benitez, transfers and the 'power vacuum'
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2007, 02:51:58 pm »
McIlvanny is no fan of Rafa he was praying before the final that the beatiful game would win (never mind Milan) he loves Ferguson to an almost embarrising degree so any rantings coming from him i would disregard,as for the situation that Liverpool find themselves in (lack of communication)Gillets son cannot under the terms of his visa work in Britain until August so iam only hoping we can sort the new players out and new contracts etc

Offline suttonoot

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Re: Sunday Times on Benitez, transfers and the 'power vacuum'
« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2007, 03:32:58 pm »
the truth hurts

at this time we are nowhere near winning the prem (thats what we all want)

unfortunately next season will be make or break at LFC

and Rafa knows it

Offline readybreck

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Re: Sunday Times on Benitez, transfers and the 'power vacuum'
« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2007, 03:39:17 pm »
With investment promised to us, the fact we have just got to ANOTHER champions league final not to mention the revenue gained from that, having the best manager in the world there cant many players who would not want to come here. Rafa is spot on what he is saying we have to move now, as for parry well best just leave him out of any organising at the club for a while.
As for our prem points total there was at least 3 games which were sacrificed for the champs league, rightly or wrongly we had our priority after january.

Offline Gnurglan

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Re: Sunday Times on Benitez, transfers and the 'power vacuum'
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2007, 03:44:09 pm »
With investment promised to us, the fact we have just got to ANOTHER champions league final not to mention the revenue gained from that, having the best manager in the world there cant many players who would not want to come here. Rafa is spot on what he is saying we have to move now

Exactly.

        * * * * * *


"The key isn't the system itself, but how the players adapt on the pitch. It doesn't matter if it's 4-3-3 or 4-4-2, it's the role of the players that counts." Rafa Benitez

Offline suttonoot

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Re: Sunday Times on Benitez, transfers and the 'power vacuum'
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2007, 03:51:49 pm »
agreed ,but when we sacrificed the three games

we were out of the title race any 3rd or 4th was almost certain

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Re: Sunday Times on Benitez, transfers and the 'power vacuum'
« Reply #17 on: May 27, 2007, 04:12:36 pm »
What is this net outlay bollocks!!

Rafa has spent just short of £100m and that is fact. Regardless of the how much we have recouped that figure doesnt change. For the money spent I think we have only bought three players who have significantly made an impact on the team in the last three years. Xabi, Reina & Agger. The others have either proved completely ineffectual (Josemi, Barrigan, Gonzalez) or just not good enough (Bellamy, Crouch, Pennant).

Rafa inherited a core of 1st team players as good any in the league. Carra, Riise, Finnan, Hamann, Gerrard, & Kewell. If you then add the above mentioned players that left us with a further three players to find to make a very good team (Obviously Xabi has replaced Hamann).

It has been proven that you do not need a team of world beaters to win a league. Just look at some of the players who are playing for Man Utd at the moment. The difference is they have a couple of very good players who can make a very big difference and make the more average players look better!

What concerns me most is that Rafa seems to want the sh*t to stick on anyone else but himself. Parry due to delaying the deals, the yanks for not giving full backing, Heighway for not running the Academy correctly. Last time I looked Rafa chose the players we signed and surely the only person you look to blame should be yourself?

We have now got to the same position that Houllier found himself in. 4th year in charge. Use the money wisely, buy the correct players and make us genuine challenges or face moving further away from the top three and end in failure.

Based on previous transfer experience I am not convinced that we wont find ourselves in the same position this time next year. Rafa has been given money and will be backed again by the Americans. This will be more than any other LFC manager in the history of the club. There can be no excuses if we are out of the title race by Xmas and Rafa will have to accept that failure as his on!

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Offline RumDrinker

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Re: Sunday Times on Benitez, transfers and the 'power vacuum'
« Reply #18 on: May 27, 2007, 05:13:18 pm »
Riise isn't as good as "any in the league" for a start.

Secondly Benitez made Carragher a great defender and has revitalized Finnans career too.

Thirdly Hamann was coming towards the end of his careers and Kewell has been a constant sicknote.

The net outlay thing is actually very important. Basically Benitez has had to sell to buy. Unlike Chelsea who spend at will and Ferguson has been building this new team for roughy 3/4 years with the ability to spend apparently 40 Million on Rooney(which as you may notice is basically our entire net outlay in the Benitez era).

Benitez has tried and apparently in some instances had deals in place to sign the likes of Etoo'o, Simao, Vidic, Alves and others. Three of those players would've obviously have given us the creative spark we're looking for. Benitez hasn't even been able to compete with Wengers youth policy. We've spotted Walcott, Diaby and Denilson around the same time or before Arsenal but haven't had the financial clout or urgency to sign any of them.
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Offline LiamG

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Re: Sunday Times on Benitez, transfers and the 'power vacuum'
« Reply #19 on: May 27, 2007, 05:15:31 pm »
How much have United spent in the past 3 seasons?

Offline Finn Solomon

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Re: Sunday Times on Benitez, transfers and the 'power vacuum'
« Reply #20 on: May 27, 2007, 05:17:05 pm »
Riise isn't as good as "any in the league" for a start.

Secondly Benitez made Carragher a great defender and has revitalized Finnans career too.

Thirdly Hamann was coming towards the end of his careers and Kewell has been a constant sicknote.

The net outlay thing is actually very important. Basically Benitez has had to sell to buy. Unlike Chelsea who spend at will and Ferguson has been building this new team for roughy 3/4 years with the ability to spend apparently 40 Million on Rooney(which as you may notice is basically our entire net outlay in the Benitez era).

Benitez has tried and apparently in some instances had deals in place to sign the likes of Etoo'o, Simao, Vidic, Alves and others. Three of those players would've obviously have given us the creative spark we're looking for. Benitez hasn't even been able to compete with Wengers youth policy. We've spotted Walcott, Diaby and Denilson around the same time or before Arsenal but haven't had the financial clout or urgency to sign any of them.

Sensible points made. Recouping money isn't actually a good sign, we should be a club financially secure enough to be able to afford to spend big money on players and shrug if they don't work out.
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Offline Emo Phillips

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Re: Sunday Times on Benitez, transfers and the 'power vacuum'
« Reply #21 on: May 27, 2007, 05:19:55 pm »
What is this net outlay bollocks!!

Rafa has spent just short of £100m and that is fact. Regardless of the how much we have recouped that figure doesnt change.



Utter crap.

The point is that Rafa, in order to build a new team, had to sell much of the old one. So it depended on how much he could get. In the case of Cissé that's been nothing so far!

If Rafa has spent close to £100m, then Chelsea have spent close to £400m.
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Offline Guz-kop

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Re: Sunday Times on Benitez, transfers and the 'power vacuum'
« Reply #22 on: May 27, 2007, 05:30:23 pm »
What is this net outlay bollocks!!

Rafa has spent just short of £100m and that is fact. Regardless of the how much we have recouped that figure doesnt change. For the money spent I think we have only bought three players who have significantly made an impact on the team in the last three years. Xabi, Reina & Agger. The others have either proved completely ineffectual (Josemi, Barrigan, Gonzalez) or just not good enough (Bellamy, Crouch, Pennant).

Rafa inherited a core of 1st team players as good any in the league. Carra, Riise, Finnan, Hamann, Gerrard, & Kewell. If you then add the above mentioned players that left us with a further three players to find to make a very good team (Obviously Xabi has replaced Hamann).

It has been proven that you do not need a team of world beaters to win a league. Just look at some of the players who are playing for Man Utd at the moment. The difference is they have a couple of very good players who can make a very big difference and make the more average players look better!

What concerns me most is that Rafa seems to want the sh*t to stick on anyone else but himself. Parry due to delaying the deals, the yanks for not giving full backing, Heighway for not running the Academy correctly. Last time I looked Rafa chose the players we signed and surely the only person you look to blame should be yourself?

We have now got to the same position that Houllier found himself in. 4th year in charge. Use the money wisely, buy the correct players and make us genuine challenges or face moving further away from the top three and end in failure.

Based on previous transfer experience I am not convinced that we wont find ourselves in the same position this time next year. Rafa has been given money and will be backed again by the Americans. This will be more than any other LFC manager in the history of the club. There can be no excuses if we are out of the title race by Xmas and Rafa will have to accept that failure as his on!



I agree with some of your concerns but think you're under stating the job he took over. He had to dismantle a squad full of dead wood and some wasters plus deal with two players who didnt want to be at the club - Gerrard and Owen. At the same time he has had to build a large squad to deal with [theoretically] 60 games a season and also a first team capable of challenging for honours. All this while still trying to win cups, which he has done by reaching 4 finals in 3 years.

Yes it's true we don't need a team of world beaters but there comes a time when you can't go any further with the squad youve got. A time when either you've got the quality or you aint. No amount of coaching, tactics or motivation will change that. United and CHelsea have raised the bar so high that the only option Arsenal and ourselves have is to spend big money on individual players. We haven't had a chance to do that and have missed out on too many players for it to be a coincidence.

So what if Rafa has put his bollocks on the line? He's not stupid, he knows that and if things don't work out in 12 months time then lets see what happens then. But things need to move quickly this summer and the right decisions need to be made. Rafa, for my money, has done more than enough to get the benefit of the doubt to spend the cash.
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Offline RumDrinker

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Re: Sunday Times on Benitez, transfers and the 'power vacuum'
« Reply #23 on: May 27, 2007, 05:35:35 pm »
How much have United spent in the past 3 seasons?

In the region of 140-150 Million. Not sure of their net spending. But in the time period you specify they sold Veron, Beckham, Van Nistlerooy and got a substantial sum for Mikel. So they're probably, at a guess their net spend is around 90 Million.

Of course a direct comparison between us and United is flawed anyhow, due to length of time each manager has been in charge.
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Offline TheRedBull

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Re: Sunday Times on Benitez, transfers and the 'power vacuum'
« Reply #24 on: May 27, 2007, 05:36:47 pm »
What is this net outlay bollocks!!
You know that someone doesn't have a clue how a football club or business is run when he don't understand what net spending mean...

Offline scottishRED

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Re: Sunday Times on Benitez, transfers and the 'power vacuum'
« Reply #25 on: May 27, 2007, 05:48:45 pm »
Rafa's a canny operater.  Much cleverer than Mourinho in timing his public comments at a time when the new owners can do something about it.

It sounds to me as though Rafa has given the hierarchy a good kick up the backside for dallying.  No more, no less (at this stage).

It sounds to me as though Rafa has got his top targets pretty much lined up:

- Simao: will leap at the chance to join us;

- Tevez: Rafa's meeting with Joorabchian at a time of the season when Rafa was exceptionally busy with preparations for the CL final was plainly not arranged merely to discuss Mascherano.  I think Benitez went to discuss us signing Tevez.

- Eto'o: the continued press-coverage, with journalists adamant that we will be making a bid, and Eto'o coming out in the media saying that he would love to play in front of the kop.  This story seems too strong to be baseless. Given the size of the fee and wages involved, there can be no guarantees on this one.  All parties will be negotiating hard (Barcelona to get a massive fee or Alonso / Sissoko in exchange), Eto'o to secure sky-high wages, us to keep costs down and make sure we get our man.

I'd be fairly surprised if Rafa doesn't have some sort of deals lined up for the above - with the Tevez / Simao deals probably being more straightforward and therefore more advanced at this stage.

What he needs, though, is the money ready to go and someone with authority to do so ready to sign on the dotted line.  And he knows we can't afford to dick around - particularly with the Tevez deal, I would guess, as Madrid / Man Utd / Chelsea are all interested to some degree, though not as interested as Rafa I'd have thought.

It also sounds as though this conference call on Friday will have sorted things out.  given that it was arranged to placate Benitez, it would have focused on what he wants - deals done, signings made. Gillett / Hicks, it seems from Parry's quotes about the situation, have further reassured Rafa that they have the money.  Though that wasn't Rafa's concern - the report says Rafa was never worried about having their (financial) backing, more about moving quickly enough to do the deals and avoid losing out on targets.

Presumably, to placate our man, Gillett / Hicks would have needed to sort out just how we are going to make these deals happen in the absence of Foster Gillett.  Given that Rafa's not been in the papers saying there is still a problem, and given that Parry has stated everything is fine, and the owners' backing is for real, it sounds as though Rafa has given the club a kick up the arse and the club has responded.

It shouldn't be necessary for Rafa to have to go public like that, but he obviously felt that it was the best way to get things moving.  I think we can assume that things are moving, and that Rafa, in contrast to Mourinho, will get what he wants this summer.
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Offline scottishRED

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Re: Sunday Times on Benitez, transfers and the 'power vacuum'
« Reply #26 on: May 27, 2007, 05:51:15 pm »
You know that someone doesn't have a clue how a football club or business is run when he don't understand what net spending mean...

I think you can see he/she knows what it means; he/she just quibbles about its relevance for judging Rafa's performance.

Personally, I think both stats (gross spend and net spend) are relevant but they're not the be all and end all.  There's wages, outlay on individual players (i.e. how much is available to spend at one time) etc.

You don't need any stats to know that Rafa has been working on a different financial planet to Mourinho (in particular) and also Ferguson in his time at the club.

Hopefully, that's about to change...
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Offline Hannibal

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Re: Sunday Times on Benitez, transfers and the 'power vacuum'
« Reply #27 on: May 27, 2007, 06:43:06 pm »
What is this net outlay bollocks!!

(shortened quote, no need to repeat everything)

Actually net spending/outlay is very important since it impacts the bottom line.  You also can't give an honest assessment on someone's transfer records if you're going to leave important facts like that out either.

You do have a point regarding a couple of the signings and it's not good for the team to have another mass exodus and influx of players again this off season.  However you must understand that Rafa took the safe route with these transfers because he cannot afford another Cisse like screw up.  14 million pounds, our club record transfer on a pretty poor player and it was a mistake that we couldn't afford repeat again.  Moores had to dig into his own pockets to fund the Kuyt transfer so you can see we had an extremely tight budget, another 14 million pound fuck up would have been unthinkable. 

Lots of people are saying that we should have gone for the really class players last summer, forget about signing donkeys like Gonzalez, Zenden and Bellamy.   We should have spent the money on a big name like ... David Villa or what ever flavor of the month striker is currently being pimped around by his agent.  What happens if the signing flops?  We spend 20+ million on David Villa, he ends up worse than Dean Saunders and we've just pissed all that money down the drain.  We would have been so far up shit creek without a paddle it would take years to recoup all that money. 

We don't have a safety net like the Mancs or Chelsea  If their 20+ million pound signings doesn't perform it's no big deal, while it does hurt their club somewhat it's impact would be nothing like what would be at Liverpool.  Why?  Because they have a shit load of money!  They already had pretty decent squads even before Rafa arrived and they didn't need to spend a lot of money clearing out the deadwood and revamping the squad. 

The squad inherited by Rafa was not as good as any in the league.  We had a couple decent players like Kewell, Riise, Hamann and 3 very good ones in Carra, Stevie and Finnan you would probably leave Kewell out of that list since he's forever crocked anyway.  So that's 5 players in a squad of 25 ... yay?  The rest of the squad was filled with players like Diao, Biscan, Baros, no right wingers and we had just lost Owen.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2007, 06:47:55 pm by Hannibal »

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Re: Sunday Times on Benitez, transfers and the 'power vacuum'
« Reply #28 on: May 27, 2007, 07:00:16 pm »


Utter crap.

The point is that Rafa, in order to build a new team, had to sell much of the old one. So it depended on how much he could get. In the case of Cissé that's been nothing so far!

If Rafa has spent close to £100m, then Chelsea have spent close to £400m.

Fazackerly.

Offline Ryde-On

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Re: Sunday Times on Benitez, transfers and the 'power vacuum'
« Reply #29 on: May 27, 2007, 07:03:29 pm »
Why does their always seem to be a serious lack of communication at liverpool??.. it was the same when Gerrad nearly left..


2 words - Rick Parry.

Remember how flustered he looked at the time?  Then Stevie turned around and basically said all he wanted was for someone to call him?
You can imagine the scene chez Parry - "What the fuck do I have to do to keep Stevie now? Fuck fuck fuck.....SHIT! I KNOW! I'LL CALL HIM, TELL HIM WE ACTUALLY DO LIKE HIM AND FORMALLY OFFER HIM THAT CONTRACT HE'S WANTED FOR AGES!!!"

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Offline Tom_B

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Re: Sunday Times on Benitez, transfers and the 'power vacuum'
« Reply #30 on: May 27, 2007, 07:03:36 pm »
Last season is last season. We were way off the pace this time.

Agreed, but the guy mentioned our 2005 league performance to highlight us falling short. Mentioning our league performance in 2005 and 2007 but not 2006 is a bit silly surely, European success or not.
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Offline firstornothing

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Re: Sunday Times on Benitez, transfers and the 'power vacuum'
« Reply #31 on: May 27, 2007, 07:17:20 pm »
Last season..(well start of this season) I queried whether we needed a Frank Arneson figure that Rafa can work closely with.
Someone to prepare all contracts schoomze players and sign on the dotted line.

Always taking the lead from Rafa ofcourse on which players should be signed.

I was rediculed and I think my post was deleted in the end........

Well looks like its one of those structural changes Rafa's now talking about..... :wave


We will never sign class players on budget with protracted talks.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2007, 07:25:47 pm by firstornothing »
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