No. Diouf, although being bit of an ass, is a better player than Garcia. Reina better than Dudek? Time will tell. He is very error prone. Bellamy improvement on Baros? Could be, but not much of an improvement.
That's utter utter bullshit. You work with a framework, a budget in this case, and without outside investment there wouldn't be any money left to buy "three quality players", nevermind the around £50m-£60m required.
OK, let's give Houllier 7 or 8 years then. Seems to be doing fine with Lyon. Come back Ged.
Garcia has been an infinitely better player for us than Diouf was. Reina very error prone? He kept more clean sheets than any other keeper in the league last year and he has only made a couple of errors for us that have led to us conceding goals. I think Bellamy is better than Baros, so its improvement there for me.
Why is that bullshit? Why without investment would we not have some more money to spend this summer? We always have a certain amount from the Champions League and the cups Benitez wins. I don't think we need £50m or £60m at all, I think we need to sign a top goalscorer and a special attacking midfielder as our two priorities and I think we could do that with closer to £20-£30m.
I've raised a valid point about Ferguson wasting money for years before putting together his great United sides, so why dismiss it with a sarcastic answer like that? You achieve nothing without patience, just because Ged didn't top his achievements of 2000-2002 after that season in 2002-03 doesn't mean Rafa won't after a blip in the league this year. I still think we'll finish comfortably in the top four. I don't see your reasoning here, you often refer to Manchester United as a benchmark or model for success, but Ferguson was minutes from the sack after five or six barren years before he established his dynasty at Old Trafford.
Yep kiss Ged's oops Rafa's arse or go and support United. In the bigger picture Rafa failed, accept it. No use to pretend otherwise. CL = treble, other than that there's not much difference between Ged and Rafa. Negativity, favouritism, poor transfer record, lack of passion... how much longer will it take for you to open your eyes? Ged got an extra season, should have gone in 2003. Should Rafa walk if we finish below Bolton, who work with 1/10th of our transfer budget. Think it was something like £7m net spending during Big Sam's time at the club.
How has Rafa failed? It's midway through his third season, I think he has a five year contract and he has already lifted the greatest prize in European football, which is worth more than Houllier's treble mate. He also won the FA Cup last year and recorded our highest ever points tally in the Premiership - so there is a lot of difference between Houllier and Rafa. I don't think we showed a lack of passion in our Champions League run or in our sterling FA Cup triumph, I don't believe Rafa particularly shows favouritism, although I do concede at times he is too negative and puts too much emphasis on defence. As for his poor transfer record I strongly disagree and believe has has signed some tremendous players and some with great potential in Alonso, Agger, Kuyt, Momo, Gonzalez, Reina and Bellamy.
And to answer your hypothetical suggestion, if we finish fourth behind Bolton would I sack Rafa? No.
Rafa inherited Cuper's Valencia. Rafa has NEVER shown his ability in the transfer market in his career. Never. THe same goes for Mourinho. I will consider Mourinho the manager of his generation only when he succeeds in the transfer market with a limited budget. Mourinho has proven that he can get everything out of the players he works with, but until he proves he can also build that team to work with, he hasn't fully proven himself.
Skill in the transfer market is the most important skill for any top level manager (without Abramovich's checkbook). Good players make good managers, winning managers. The difference between spending £12m on Ronaldo or Luque. Spending £25m on Ronaldinho or Mendieta. etc. Or £3.5m on van Persie or Diao or who fucking ever. People often talk about tactics and playing with pace and such. Motivation etc. Much of that comes from the personalities and talent of the players at the the managers disposal. So you better make sure you can build the right mix. And I think Mourinho would have failed at that. And Rafa failed at it.
And it's the life story of Newcastle United. a tragedy. Boumsong, Bramble. There's a CB partnership that cost £14m. For £13m you could have got Vidic and Agger.
That's the bottom line for every manager. Tactics and everything that's secondary. Attack-minded, creative players like Henry couldn't be shackled by the most negative of the managers in the world game. Proven by Ged at Lyon, having inherited an attack-minded creative side, he can't have them playing any other way. Fred was a good purchase, but do you think Ged could have built that side?
Now apply that question to Rafa, and consider the fact, that without outside investment, the barrel would be empty. "This here is the final product." Title challenge? NO.
The point about Mourinho isn't that relative to this debate, but did he have a collossal budget at Porto?
Again Rafa has made some very shrewd acquisitions, such as Alonso for a mere £10m when players with half his ability are joining the club at the other end of the M62 for nearly double. Momo and Reina IMO will be worth their wait in gold in a couple of years, but then you appear to only see as far as the immediate short term. Agger cost peanuts considering his ability.
You keep talking of facts, but you don't know the state of our finances. So how is the barrel empty? You're guessing it is, so why use the word fact? It's disingenuous. Rafa's side isn't finished yet, neither is his time here, so how has he failed? You make a lot of assumptions and try to pass them as statements of fact.
Oh what the fuck I've written all this before reading your posts on this last page. What a waste of my fucking time.
If anything here among the Sam Allardyce madness, your knocking of Rafa's achievements and worshipping of Houiller interspersed with your claims to be our lord makes any sense, it's these words from Spartacus.
Failed this season yes, walk no. I think three seasons is time enough to see league improvement but not necessarily lose your job over.
What I don’t understand (and I think you make some valid points) is your continued acknowledgment of what Fergie has achieved yet we all know how life at Man U started for him, seven years into the job and on the verge of being sacked lets not forget.
You state that Rafa inherited his Valenca team but what had said team won immediately prior to his arrival?
Some of your player comparisons are just bizarre.
I think Spartacus often seems to make points here with a degree of realism, something that many posters react too because they can't accept strong criticism of their team. The truth hurts and there are issues in our squad that need to be addressed, Everything is not rosy in our garden. Rafa has made mistakes and he has made bad signings, but that doesn't outweigh his triumphs - he has a core of a very good side which needs to be augmented with a few special players.
His record demands respect and he needs to be given the time and money to see out this process. Then and only then can his reign be truly judged - we have stuttered and staggered this year, but only in a manner similar to Arsenal and Manchester United in recent times. It seems bizarre that you and a few other posters are eager to demand change when it is continuity and faith in managers that allows successful teams to form and flourish. A treble of League Cup, FA Cup and UEFA Cup doesn't equal even one night like ours in Istanbul in May 2005. Last year we took great strides in the league, picking up more silverware in the process. Rafa has done a good job so far, but not good enough yet.
Things change very quickly in football. Six months ago Alan Pardew was the emperor of the pearly kings and queens, now he is in the hotseat at Charlton. Arsenal had a chance at greatness in May and they were touted as possible title contenders when they demolished us 3-0. Now they are mere also rans in the hunt for the Premiership and remain yet another London side never to lift the most prized trophy in European club football. Next September with a few more signings they may reign supreme again when Wenger establishes his fourth phase or team in his time at Arsenal. It wasn't long ago they went unbeaten all season and were set to dominate our league for years to come.
We have an excellent manager. That is a fact. Sadly he has struggled to adapt his methods to quite suit the Premiership or get the right balance in his squad - as of yet. He could do with more money to spend on less players - it's all very well saying you would rather have one Ronaldo to Zenden, Pennant and Gonzalez, but then we would have two less players in our squad and when that player became injured we would all be lamenting our manager's folly. He had to revamp our squad and in doing so he has brought us silverware and eternal satisfaction - just stop and look at his achievements, look at the bigger picture for a moment. We've reached three finals in two seasons, won the Champions League and FA Cup, picked up a Supercup, a Community Shield - we have hardly been hard done by have we? In that time Manchester United fans have settled for one Carling Cup... they may win the league this year, but they could also be ground down by the football machine that is Chelsea and end up with nothing while we lift another major trophy.
My good friend above summed up this whole plea for sanity and reason, which will no doubt fall on deaf ears, in one sentence. We need to support the team, support the players and support the manager and trust them to overcome this slump, finish the season in style and come back even stronger next year. That's what intelligent fans do - sure, look at the problems, but don't let them engulf you and ignore the positives and potential of Liverpool FC Today.
Good things come to those who wait.
