Topic: Theo Walcott: Why I'm a Liverpool Fan (Ummmmmmmmmm)

[ShanksLegend]

Theo Walcott: Why I'm a Liverpool Fan (lfc.tv)
Paul Rogers 20 June 2006

Theo Walcott might be a newcomer to the international set-up but the Arsenal striker has revealed how as a young Liverpool fan he once met his Kop heroes - including current England team-mate Michael Owen - thanks to Chelsea, of all clubs. 

The youngster - rated the most exciting prospect to emerge in English football since Wayne Rooney - has never hidden the fact that he's a massive Liverpool supporter and even when Chelsea laid out the red carpet for him as a youngster, he used the opportunity to meet his real idols.
 
"I was playing in a tournament for Swindon when Southampton and Chelsea showed an interest," recalls Walcott. "Chelsea invited me to be a ball-boy for a game against Liverpool and it was fantastic to meet my heroes Michael Owen and Robbie Fowler.
 
"I was a Liverpool fan simply because my dad followed them. Unfortunately I wasn't born when the team had their golden era, but I enjoyed watching the likes of Michael Owen, Robbie Fowler and Steve McManaman when I was growing up. When Liverpool won the Champions League last year, I went mad. I was shouting so loud I think I woke up the entire village where I live!" 

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N152659060620-1035.htm

Yeah sure he is, I remember reading somewhere that Rafa had an agreement to sign him this summer.  If he was a Liverpool fan he would of waited 6 months.

[ShanksLegend]

Yep thought so, just found this in the Echo.

http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0500liverpoolfc/0100news/tm_objectid=16607258%26method=full%26siteid=50061%26headline=benitez%2drefused%2dto%2djoin%2dwalcott%2dauction-name_page.html

RAFA BENITEZ has explained why he wasn't prepared to join an auction for the services of Southampton wonderkid Theo Walcott.

The 16-year-old was today on the verge of joining Arsenal in a deal believed to be worth £12m.
Having tracked the youngster for a year, Benitez is disappointed the Gunners moved into pole position in the race for his signature.

The Spanish boss believed Walcott's original first choice was a transfer to Anfield, but it seems the youngster hasn't withstood the pressures put upon him to move for an extraordinary fee If Walcott didn't leave during this transfer window, Southampton wouldn't receive anything like the value they've agreed with Arsenal.

Benitez was hoping to swoop for Walcott in the summer for a compensation fee of around £3m.
Benitez says if Walcott truly dreamed of playing for Liverpool, as has been suggested, he could have made it happen if he and his family held their nerve.

"We know Walcott is a good player and his family say he's a Liverpudlian, but if he's decided to go to another club, we can't do anything about it," explained Benitez.

"If a player says he wants to go to a particular club, it must not be the agent who decides what that player should do. It always depends on the players.

"Walcott is a player I like, but the final decision about which club he joins is his.
"If the player decides to go somewhere else, maybe it's better for us."

Only a dramatic, late U-turn from Walcott is likely to prevent a deal with Arsenal proceeding today.

[Consigliere]

Money, money, money.......

Having said that I remember reading something about Walcott or his dad talking about Wenger's track record for bringing through youngsters, how it was important for the lad at 16 to develop, learn his game etc.

[Ron]

Well, as a passioned football fan I can't understand that.
He loves Liverpool but choose Arsenal.
Is it ALL about money then ?
I mean, we could give him a salary that (probably) non of us normal people will ever see.
No, I know, I'm fucking naive, but still I don't understand.
As a matter of fact, I hope I never will neither !

[beardsley4ever]

All about money?  It could also be about Arsenal being the best developers of young players in the country right now.  As much as I/we may hate Arsenal, you can't deny that that's been the case for a few years now.  Rafa will hopefully change that, but that's the way it is right now.

[gjr1]

I think though he is a big fan of Henry also so maybe that had some impact.

He's young and maybe getting too much advice for his brain to comprehend.

Hope he doesn't hurt us too much if he comes good

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Yeah sure he is, I remember reading somewhere that Rafa had an agreement to sign him this summer.  If he was a Liverpool fan he would of waited 6 months.

He's a professional footballer, not some kid in the playground

[ShanksLegend]

He's a professional footballer, not some kid in the playground

money, money, money

[ratcatcher]

Hmmmm. Once again we offer £3m on a player that eventually goes for a fee that could reach £12m. When are we going to take our heads out of the sand and realise we'll continue to miss out on the best of the crop with this insane attitude?

Note Im not saying we should match every bid from other clubs, only those we really want or need to sign.

[beardsley4ever]

Hmmmm. Once again we offer £3m on a player that eventually goes for a fee that could reach £12m. When are we going to take our heads out of the sand and realise we'll continue to miss out on the best of the crop with this insane attitude?

Note Im not saying we should match every bid from other clubs, only those we really want or need to sign.

Maybe Walcott wasn't them though.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

money, money, money

He isnt one of the top earners in the game (£5k per week) so its not as if we were going to offer him a far smaller contract is it?

[Andy]

Hmmmm. Once again we offer £3m on a player that eventually goes for a fee that could reach £12m. When are we going to take our heads out of the sand and realise we'll continue to miss out on the best of the crop with this insane attitude?

We didn't offer £3m, we were waiting until we could get him for that amount in the summer.

Arsenal were willing and able to pay £12m for an untested 17 yr old. Benitez wasn't. Looks a very good move by Wenger now he is in the England squad etc. If Arsenal hadn't splashed so much cash, we might have got him for £3m, which would have been an outstanding signing. Not to be tho...

[ratcatcher]

Maybe Walcott wasn't them though.

Perhaps. And perhaps he is so we've missed out?

Point is the £12m wasn't paid up front, it will be based on appearances etc. But, we were clearly not at the races with this one.

[Something Else]

Perhaps. And perhaps he is so we've missed out?

Point is the £12m wasn't paid up front, it will be based on appearances etc. But, we were clearly not at the races with this one.

one players name should ring true

pennat? Gamble did not pay off there

plus we have anderson who has great potential

no point spendin too much on a player if he does not fir into rafas plans and maybe wallcot is not the player rafe desperately needed or wanted

[ratcatcher]

Why do people say Benitez wasn't really interested in a player when we 'miss out' on them? Benitez clearly made a bid for the player and was clearly upset at missing out on a 'Liverpudlian'

Do people seriously think Benitez makes neferious bids for players he's not really interested in because I dont.

[Sweeper]

Don't know about you lot but Rafa is getting more like Shanks alll the time. He obviously believes that to play for the reds then you must want to play for the reds. He needs 100% commitment and if you ain't got it then don't bother!

We all love players who give their all and he recognises this and wants the same as we do.

["We know Walcott is a good player and his family say he's a Liverpudlian, but if he's decided to go to another club, we can't do anything about it," explained Benitez.

"If a player says he wants to go to a particular club, it must not be the agent who decides what that player should do. It always depends on the players.

"Walcott is a player I like, but the final decision about which club he joins is his.
"If the player decides to go somewhere else, maybe it's better for us."

In Rafa we believe and trust!

[StevieG26]

All about money?  It could also be about Arsenal being the best developers of young players in the country right now.  As much as I/we may hate Arsenal, you can't deny that that's been the case for a few years now.  Rafa will hopefully change that, but that's the way it is right now.

Arsenal the best developers of young players? Sorry I guess you're right, perhaps Michael Owen, Steven Gerrard, Jamie Carragher and Robbie Fowler never existed. And maybe Liverpool didn't win the Youth Cup at all this year.

[Deadlogic]

Arsenal were willing and able to pay £12m for an untested 17 yr old. Benitez wasn't. Looks a very good move by Wenger now he is in the England squad etc.

Maybe he's in the squad because of the £12m fee.  I know that might sound a bit silly, but SGE admitted he hadn't seen him play, so maybe it was a case of "well if Arsenal paid that much for him, he must (might) be good..."

You never know.

[Tom_B]

I don't get why .tv would even put an article like that up. They know what happened with regards to us trying to sign him.

He's not really a Liverpool fan, and they must know that.

[beardsley4ever]

Arsenal the best developers of young players? Sorry I guess you're right, perhaps Michael Owen, Steven Gerrard, Jamie Carragher and Robbie Fowler never existed. And maybe Liverpool didn't win the Youth Cup at all this year.

So that's about 7 years since someone came out of our academy into our first team - your point is?  I don't have time to list all the players who have emerged from Arsenal's ranks (including those that were bought as 17 year olds and developed) during that time.  A spade is a spade, mate.  Sorry.

[The Bill Hicks Appreciation Society]

could it be that he simply didn't want southampton to get stiffed? just a thought like but perhaps the lad has a conscience

[catinthebag]

Dig at Michael in a way I guess, but it really is looking great that Rafa wants total commitment beyond professionalism (which is in itself all well and good). Alves sounds like a player in that category as well, one that wants to play for us. Too bad Djibril hasn't had the luck to build his career here. Anelka is another who is dying to come back - resulting in a funny quote when Robbie re-signed, in FFT - but i doubt it'll happen.

In any case, siging players who want us as much as we want them = good.

[Deadlogic]

So that's about 7 years since someone came out of our academy into our first team - your point is?  I don't have time to list all the players who have emerged from Arsenal's ranks (including those that were bought as 17 year olds and developed) during that time.  A spade is a spade, mate.  Sorry.

Of the Arsenal 1st team, who are "academy" products then mate?

[America's Sweetheart]

Of course, you could just take the view that Walcott showed Southampton some loyalty by allowing them to make as much money as possible off his back.

Or does loyalty only count when it's to LFC?

[beardsley4ever]

Of the Arsenal 1st team, who are "academy" products then mate?

Fabregas, Cole, Eboue, Clichy, Flamini at a start.  And before you say that they're not all 1st team players, they played a lot of 1st team football last year and managed to finish 4th and get to the CL final so they are all credible members of their 1st team.  All of those players came to Arsenal younger than 18 (i.e. Walcott's age) and have come into the 1st team over the last 3 years.  I'm sure I'm missing a few others, but that's a start.  In that time, we have produced who as a regular 1st team player?  Warnock at a push?  Pongolle, although he's off on loan and probably sold now?

[Cheshire_Cat]

Of the Arsenal 1st team, who are "academy" products then mate?

Great question!!!!

Only one I can think of (who has done anything, anywhere) is Ashley Cole.

The rest of their squad is all imported (from anywhere that has French as it's first language).

[beardsley4ever]

Great question!!!!

Only one I can think of (who has done anything, anywhere) is Ashley Cole.

The rest of their squad is all imported (from anywhere that has French as it's first language).

That's the point though, isn't it?  They were imported and developed into 1st team footballers, exactly as Walcott wants to be.  What success have we demonstrated bringing in 17 year olds and developing them?  To date, little to none.  It will hopefully change with Rafa, but hasn't been that way to date.

[Tom_B]

Fabregas, Cole, Eboue, Clichy, Flamini at a start.  All of those players came to Arsenal younger than 18 (i.e. Walcott's age) and have come into the 1st team over the last 3 years.  I'm sure I'm missing a few others, but that's a start.  In that time, we have produced who as a

Actually Fabregas and Cole were the only ones who were under 18 when they arrived.

[Rox]

That's the point though, isn't it?  They were imported and developed into 1st team footballers, exactly as Walcott wants to be.  What success have we demonstrated bringing in 17 year olds and developing them?  To date, little to none.  It will hopefully change with Rafa, but hasn't been that way to date.

Fowler, McManaman, Owen, Gerrard, Carra?

[lurker]

We didn't offer £3m, we were waiting until we could get him for that amount in the summer.

Arsenal were willing and able to pay £12m for an untested 17 yr old. Benitez wasn't. Looks a very good move by Wenger now he is in the England squad etc. If Arsenal hadn't splashed so much cash, we might have got him for £3m, which would have been an outstanding signing. Not to be tho...

Looks a very good move by Southampton - I doubt Wenger was expecting to have to pay up another part of that £12m fee before the lad has even kicked a ball in anger for Arsenal. You can bet Southampton had a first-international-cap clause in that deal.

In fairness to the lad, if it was about money, money, money, he'd be at Chelsea. I'm sure part of the reason he went to Arsenal is their record in bringing young players through, but I'd imagine that Southampton would have put a good deal of pressure on the lad to take the Arsenal deal too. So there was probably an element of doing right by his old club in his decision to go there as well.

[beardsley4ever]

Actually Fabregas and Cole were the only ones who were under 18 when they arrived.

Ok, so Clichy had just turned 18, Flamini 20 and Eboue 21.  Oh, and Senderos was 18 when he signed, and Toure was 20.  Points to a pretty strong record of developing young players into quality footballers.  Unfortunately better than our track record of late.

[Tom_B]

Ok, so Clichy had just turned 18, Flamini 20 and Eboue 21.  Oh, and Senderos was 18 when he signed, and Toure was 20.  Points to a pretty strong record of developing young players into quality footballers.  Unfortunately better than our track record of late.

Well looking at those ages. Stevie, Carra, Riise, Xabi (only 22 when we got him), Fowler, Warnock, Momo, Agger.

Just from our first team squad.

[beardsley4ever]

Well looking at those ages. Stevie, Carra, Riise, Xabi (only 22 when we got him), Fowler, Warnock, Momo, Agger.

Just from our first team squad.

Stevie, Carra and Robbie are all from 6+ years ago.  If you want to go that far back, then you're going to have to start comparing Vieira, Anelka, Henry, etc - it's too far back to be real if you're in Walcott's shoes. 

Xabi was already class before he arrived, so I discounted him (Real Sociedad might be a bit pissed off if we try to take credit for developing him as a footballer ). 

Surely we can't declare Agger a success for the purposes of this debate - he was signed after Walcott went to Arsenal for starters!!

That leaves Warnock, JAR and Momo as players we've genuinely developed from young prospects into 1st team footballers (and even JAR is a push given that he was an established starter with monaco before coming here).

[Tom_B]

That leaves Warnock, JAR and Momo as players we've genuinely developed from young prospects into 1st team footballers (and even JAR is a push given that he was an established starter with monaco before coming here).

JAR wasn't first team week in week out. He was on the verge.

If you count Senderos I'm counting Agger.

But, you see my point I think, and I see your point.

[beardsley4ever]

If you count Senderos I'm counting Agger.

??  Yeah, 6 of one, 3 dozen of the other. 

But, you see my point I think, and I see your point.

You're conceding that I'm right, yeah? 




Anyway, I hate when I somehow end up debated against Liverpool, so I'm going to stop my part of this debate!

[PaulR]

I don't get why .tv would even put an article like that up. They know what happened with regards to us trying to sign him.

He's not really a Liverpool fan, and they must know that.

Well, he says he's a Liverpool fan -  he's pictured supporting Liverpool at Anfield in a  Liverpool shirt, cites Owen, Fowler and Macca as heroes and claims to have celebrated when we won the Champions League  - I don't quite get the bit about him not being a Liverpool fan and "we must know that".

Why did we put the article up? Because it's always nice for other club's supporters to see their players on the Liverpool website professing their love for Liverpool Football Club.

[Cheshire_Cat]

That's the point though, isn't it?  They were imported and developed into 1st team footballers, exactly as Walcott wants to be.  What success have we demonstrated bringing in 17 year olds and developing them?  To date, little to none.  It will hopefully change with Rafa, but hasn't been that way to date.

Fair point.

We haven't produced much in the last 5 to 6 years through our academy, and the young talent we've brought in hasn't shone very brightly.

It does seem to be changing under Rafa.

Rafa seems to value the academy, and young talent far more than GH did in his time in charge.

But with Arsenal, I can't remember them producing anything through their own academy in the last 10 years (apart from Cole).

Same goes for Chelsea (only Terry).

To be fair to Man U they have at least produced a number of "home grown players" in the not too distant past. Although I suppose you could argue that in the last 5 years even their academy hasn't produced anything special.

Is any of the young talent going to get a chance at a big club though? How many of our Youth Cup winners will make it at (or away) from Liverpool.

Pennent failed at Arsenal. Glen Johnson failed at Chelsea. Will Rossi make it at United? Or is the problem more to do with the nationality of the young player?

[RedBoywonder]

Well, he says he's a Liverpool fan -  he's pictured supporting Liverpool at Anfield in a  Liverpool shirt, cites Owen, Fowler and Macca as heroes and claims to have celebrated when we won the Champions League  - I don't quite get the bit about him not being a Liverpool fan and "we must know that".

Why did we put the article up? Because it's always nice for other club's supporters to see their players on the Liverpool website professing their love for Liverpool Football Club.

go ed paul...

[Tom_B]

Well, he says he's a Liverpool fan -  he's pictured supporting Liverpool at Anfield in a  Liverpool shirt, cites Owen, Fowler and Macca as heroes and claims to have celebrated when we won the Champions League  - I don't quite get the bit about him not being a Liverpool fan and "we must know that".

Why did we put the article up? Because it's always nice for other club's supporters to see their players on the Liverpool website professing their love for Liverpool Football Club.

Why didn't he sign for us when he had the chance then? If he is such a fan then surely he would have waited and signed?

I don't mean he isn't a fan, as in he has no liking for the club, blah blah blah. I mean he's not a fan to the extent that most Liverpool fans are, because most if not all would jump at the chance to play for the club over any other, money or not.

Where's the picture of him wearing a Liverpool shirt anyway?

[Devastatin' Dave]

It is impossible to deny that Arsenal are the best club to buy cheap youngsters them go on to be succesful. You have Toure, Senderos, Eboue, Fabregas, Clichy, Diaby, Flamini all for vunder a million apart from Eboue, £1.5 million. The only one I can think of we signed when young for a low price and has played games is Traore and maybe Carson.

Well looking at those ages. Stevie, Carra, Riise, Xabi (only 22 when we got him), Fowler, Warnock, Momo, Agger.

Just from our first team squad.

Well, if you want to include players like that Man United have Rooney, Ronaldo, Scholes, Neville, Brown, Giggs, O'Shea and Silvestre.

Chelsea have J.Cole, Terry, Robben and Cech.

All players who signed for the club before 22.