Author Topic: My final thoughts on Cisse  (Read 3395 times)

Offline myrlas

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My final thoughts on Cisse
« on: April 21, 2006, 10:39:02 AM »
Seing myself as one of Djibril Cisse's leading defenders on here, and since every Cisse thread has been locked (and rightly so), I thought I would sum up my thoughts on Cisse, and a few words on what could happen next season if he's not sold (And no my freinds, that is no certainty)

Djibril Cisse is perhaps one of the players who produce most contrastful (black/white) opinions in todays squad. It often seems like he's either shit, or good. Of course there are many with opinions in between, but they are rarely as prominent as the "extremes". Some might think that I think Cisse is the best thing since sliced bread. Well I don't. In this post I'll try to sum up my feelings on one of the most special, frustrating, emotional and atypical players in LFC's recent history.

First of all...I agree he hasn't played well all the time. That goes for up front, or out wide. But he has had good and bad patches as every other player. Cisse has, opposite to what some on here say, been our MOM several times this season. In some games he really has showed that he is capable of being the difference. In others he's been poor. He's a bit of an enigma really. At his best he is almost unstoppable, but at his worst, he can be annoying. But who isn't? The thing with Cisse is that even on a bad day, his extreme abilities in his pace COULD lead to something, even if his touch and decisions have been poor or average for 80 minutes. And since he's kind of a hot/coldplayer, there is loads of his time on the pitch - where he does ok - that goes amiss. That goes for easy safe passes, that goes for link-up play, that goeas for positioning, that goes for tracking back, that goes for APPLAUDING his teammates (he does that you know) etc.

But first and foremost Cisse is a confidence player. The best way of gaining confidence for a striker in Cisse's mould, is by scoring goals. You increase your chances of getting goals by playing up front (and that is Cisse's best position). If Cisse has been poor in training, and if Rafa thinks he offers too little to our team in "his style of play", why hasn't he been given a run in the reserves or something? Let him gain his confidence there. But it never happens, as it seems like Rafa is cautious of giving regular first team members playing time in the reserves. But it could be a suggestion. I remember the likes of Baros got a few good reserveteam games under his belt to gain match fitness and confidence. The problem is most likely that Cisse is one of the best trained members of the squad, and since he offers an option to the team that we would sorely missed if he became injured again...it simply won't happen.

Then again Rafa has said himself in an attempt to defend Morientes that the only way of gaining confidence is by playing. So if we should believe that, then there's no reason at all why Cisse shouldn't be given the same opportunity? Or?

If I was Rafa I would continue to play possesion football, with a striker like Crouch or Morientes up front who could have the "meeting" role. I would put Cisse alongside them to give both the midfielders and supporting strikers another option. Most goals are scored from breakdowns..only seconds after a team retains possesion. That is a fact. And it's not regarded as counterattacks. In modern football the defense are so tight and good, that knocking the ball around 15-20 times rarely leads to goals. It's all about catching the opponent off balance. With pace up front you are able to use the space behind the defense as well as the space in front of it.

Having said that...link up play is Cisse's perhaps most underrated ability. And i said LINK-UP play...not hold-up play. There's a pretty obvious difference.

Where Crouch and Morientes often use several touches to hold up the ball, and get others into play, Cisse often lays the ball off directly, starting a new movement toward goal. It's more of a high-risk attempt than the hold-up play. but even if it fails more times than it succeeds, the chances created when it succeeds could easily be one on ones with the keeper.

And that takes me to another thing. Cisse has an image of often spoiling those opportunities. He "closes his eyes and blasts the ball straight at the keeper". Well...perhaps he does that from time to time. BUT...he also scores now and then. No striker always score when they are one on one. In fact it's far more difficult than it seems. (but that is another discussion). The "problem" is that Cisse is the only striker we have that gets to opportunities like that. Our other strikers are slow...VERY slow, and they never get to opportunities where they outruns the defense...having 3-4 seconds to decide what to do, with a big central defender ready to tackle you from behind. But as we don't ever see it, there's no reason to criticize now is there?

With the organized defenses in top football today, you rarely get to one on ones. But even if...we have pretty many examples of Cisse getting to those chances from a well timed run and pass. Yes he's offside now and then. But players who go for that space ALWAYS gets more into offside positions. I'm not saying Cisse can't improve there. But if you think he is annoying, then you would have HATED Inzaghi. He is offside 9 times out of 10, but he always gets through once or twice...and then it often results in a goal as well.

And guess what...based on minutes played this season Cisse has a goalscoringaverage of a goal in every about 170-180 minutes. That means a goal every second match (given that he'd play full 90 minutes every time), and we all know that he's spent much time as a wide midfielder. So it's not so bad is it?

So to me it's not a problem at all to have Cisse (or any other quick striker up front) alongside another type of players. In fact I thing the team come out both stronger and more flexible if we have other options in our attacking play. Pace is definitely an attacking option no matter what system you play.

So it's important not to compare Cisse and Crouch directly. They are totally different players, and their major roles are very different. But they both are strikers, and many of their "other" tasks overlaps each other (like positioning in the box, finishing technique when in scoring positions, setting up others etc etc)

But no matter how you're built, and no matter what system you play. Scoring goals will never...and I repeat NEVER...get out of fashion. It's the main job for the striker. Strikers are developing their game to get into scoring positions as many times as possible. And the way they achieve that is very different from player to player.

One of the reason I really like Cisse is because there is always happening something when he plays. He's always involved, and he never hides. And yes...he miss a lot, but he normally gets to that many chances (not only by his pace of course) that there is a good chance he'll put one in the net as well. And putting the ball in the back of the net often comes along with confidence. And to me Cisse's not been given a proper chance to get that confidence, by getting a run in his favorite position. Yes he's been given chances, and he hasn't always taken them like he should, but he's neither better nor worse than any other of our strikers this season. Based on time on the pitch he is perhaps the most effective goalscorer we have. But then again he was always gonna be that since he's our only natural goalscorer(apart from a bit part Fowler who might have found his scoringboots again).

So to sum it up. I rate Cisse as a goalscorer, a role i think every team can afford to have. I feel many of his critics use abilities Cisse's never had against him to end up with the conclusion that he's a poor player. As someone said, he does exactly what it says on the tin.

So what about the future. Has Cisse a future at Liverpool?

Many claim that he's a gonner already. He doesn't fit in, he's not in Rafa's plans, his attitude is wrong and so on and so on. Welll I must disagree.

We all know Rafa talks about possibilities. Cisse gives us an option both up front, and out wide that we're not having at the moment. We all know that Gonzales will give us some pace out left next season, meaning perhaps Kewell shifting to the right, or perhaps we bring in a natural right winger. But Cisse has showed us he can play there. His crossing is improving, and even if he's not in Figo's mould when it comes to tricks to beat defenders, he still gets past leftbacks often enough. The only thing he need in my opinion is to consider cutting inside now and than, so the fullback doesn't know that he's trying to beat him on the outside every time. (It's much BETTER to beat a fullback on the outside of course, because it is much easier to get at the end of crosses, and it much more difficult to defend crosses between the defense and the goalkeeper).

But is it enough for a 24-year old, former topscorer and starplayer,  to be a bitpart player for a big club? We know Cisse WANT'S to play for L'pool. We know that he has feelings for this club and it's fans. Just take a look at him when he scores, or when WE score. There is passion all over him. He doesn't always have a smile on his face when playing, but personally I'm glad he hasn't. He wants to win. That is allowed.

The final thing is of course the money. We payed a lot of money for Cisse (£14M?), and we don't want to give him away for a small fee. Why should we anyway? As I said, he brings special options to our team, and they are difficult and EXPENSIVE to replace. I can't see us selling Cisse for anything beneath £7M, and a loan-deal is most likely not an option either.

So what will Rafa do?

No one knows of course, but I hope he stays. I like him, and I like the potential he has. Players like Cisse don't come around often, and if he can be better at fulfilling his strengths in our style of play I firmly believe he will give us much joy (and some frustration) in the coming seasons.

I, for one, hope he stays.  :wave
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Offline Billy Liddell

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Re: My final thoughts on Cisse
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2006, 10:41:45 AM »
You like him then?

Online Zverko

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Re: My final thoughts on Cisse
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2006, 10:48:06 AM »
It is really difficult thing to decide.... He simply brings mixed emotions.  I was very excited when we signed him, and lately so many times I thought we would be better off without him.  But then he has the potential still, and its not easy to find a much better player for whatever money we could sell him now.
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Offline fru

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Re: My final thoughts on Cisse
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2006, 10:53:00 AM »
Cisse brings us options and a different way to play against teams (i.e. Bolton and Blackburn recently), but if we got rid of him we could bring in someone else with the qualities Cisse posseses but with an added sense of maturity. Someone who doesn't just try to get to the by-line and then runs out of ideas...

Offline Spanish Fan

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Re: My final thoughts on Cisse
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2006, 10:56:50 AM »
My opinion is that Benitez will get a fast striker with more awareness and technique. Maybe Gonzalez may take that second striker role in away games.
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Offline Buster 'Hook Hand' Bluth

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Re: My final thoughts on Cisse
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2006, 10:57:19 AM »
Cisse brings us options and a different way to play against teams (i.e. Bolton and Blackburn recently), but if we got rid of him we could bring in someone else with the qualities Cisse posseses but with an added sense of maturity. Someone who doesn't just try to get to the by-line and then runs out of ideas...


Agree with that.

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Offline DonkeyWan

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Re: My final thoughts on Cisse
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2006, 10:57:33 AM »
Cisse offers something different. If Benitez brings a player with real pace and skill in, then Cisse may prove redundant. I would still give him another year though.

Oh, and if one more persons says "he's not worth 14 million" I'll hunt them down and kill them.
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Offline -HH-

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Re: My final thoughts on Cisse
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2006, 11:01:06 AM »
But first and foremost Cisse is a confidence player. The best way of gaining confidence for a striker in Cisse's mould, is by scoring goals. You increase your chances of getting goals by playing up front (and that is Cisse's best position).

So the fact that all his best performances this season have been on the right doesn't change your mind on that at all? He also gets more chances on the right and the games where he's looked most unstoppable (Charlton, West Brom for me) he hasn't actually scored.

Cisse is not a bad player. His attitude has improved. But I still think we can do better.
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Online Rafalutionary

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Re: My final thoughts on Cisse
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2006, 11:02:59 AM »
You like him then?

I'm another one who likes him. I like him because I know that has the ability to perform great things and like Kewell I think if Rafa put more time into he could come good like Harry did.
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Offline zx81

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Re: My final thoughts on Cisse
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2006, 11:03:55 AM »
every Cisse thread has been locked (and rightly so),

this thread is no different......
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Offline Greg

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Re: My final thoughts on Cisse
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2006, 11:13:34 AM »
I wrote this about him the other day.

Whatever you say about the amount of goals he's scored, you could say the statistics are bending the truth on this occasion.

-------------------------------
Here's his goals this season. Some I can't remember though.

1. TNS A (don't remember it)
2. FBK Kaunas A (good goal if I remember rightly)
3. FBK Kaunas A (can't remember it)
4. CSKA Sofia A (lucky it went in)
5. CSKA Moscow N (equaliser - was jammy as fuck)
6. CSKA Moscow N (2nd can't remember it)
7. Brum A (penalty)
8. Blackburn H (good free kick)
9. Anderlecht A (great volley from corner)
10. Anderlecht H (can't remember it)
11. Portsmouth (lucky as fuck - meant to be a cross)
12. Everton A (boss goal)
13. Newcastle A (penalty)
14. Brum A (keeper fuck up)
15. WBA A (well taken)

If you take away the 8 European goals (none against top opposition), he has scored 7 domestic goals. 2 of them were penalties. One was meant to be a cross. One was a free kick. One was a fuck up my the Brum keeper.

Only leaves a great goal v Everton and a good goal against WBA.

15 goals sounds good but if you break down those goals and remember what they were like… it tells a different story.
-------------------------------



Offline myrlas

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Re: My final thoughts on Cisse
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2006, 11:30:12 AM »
15 goals sounds good but if you break down those goals and remember what they were like… it tells a different story.
-------------------------------

And what story is that exactly? Isn't a goal a goal anymore? So penalties, free-kicks and shots that keepers should have/could have saved shouldn't count? I would love to see the topscorers table if it was like that.

To me these sorts of things are only a cheap shot to try to back up that you don't like or rate Cisse.

It's much better just to say it(that you don't rate him). That is undebatable
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Offline Ole Gunnar

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Re: My final thoughts on Cisse
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2006, 11:30:30 AM »
You obviously feel really strong for Cissè, and your "feelings for" the man strongly outwayes my "feelings against" him. So I don't have it in me to wright a post with 2000 words ;)

And even though this has been done to absolute death in other treads I'll make a couple of comments on what you say.

You say the thing is with Cissè is that he can be poor for 80 minutes, but still track back and applaud his team mates, yes he does, sometimes. And sometimes is the key word here, IMO players should always do that.

And like numerous people have said before, Morientes offers more to the team than Cissè, and then it's a better option to let Morientes get confidence in the team than Cissè. Not that I think confidence has anything to do with ball controll and vision.

A good example of Cissès limitation was against Blackburn, first you have the two one on ones where he misses. Of course everybody misses from time to time, but when you miss 2 100% chances, how many do you expect us to create during a game? Not to mention the one he put in the post.
But the biggest example was when a long ball was played up to Morientes, you could see Cissè standing there, Moro goes up and wins the header, and then Cissè starts running. Due to his pace he almost catch the ball, but just almost. Had he started running when Morientes went up, he would probably have been one on one again. To me this is his biggest limitation, not his finishing or attitude or anything.

I already hate Inzagi, so no problem there. But there is a difference in the way they are cought in offside. Difference is doing a run trough, or just be standing in offside, as against Blackburn. But as I see it, Cissè running in offside comes from his lack of understanding of the game. He makes bad decisions.

I don't think we can afford to have a "goalscorer" in our team, unless he can come close to 30 league goal a season. But I don't think Cissè have that in him, not even close.

I do think he offers something different to our team, something nobody else in our team have and that is extreme pace. If Cissè would be happy being a bit part player, he might stay. But he is probably on pretty high wages, and he did cost us £14m. I think we can find players out there that can do the same job, and a lot cheaper.

So to sum it up, I don't have anything against the player, and if played to his strenghts he would score a lot of goals. But I don't want Liverpool to play the kind of football, he would have been perfect for Houlliere, so I hope Lyon comes for him this summer.

I think he's gone, IF there is a decent bid for him. And he will go on to score goals, but not for a team that will finish above Liverpool in the PL should he stay in England, or a team doing better than Liverpool in Europe should he leave England.
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Offline Robbo1980

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Re: My final thoughts on Cisse
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2006, 11:32:41 AM »
I honestly cant see anything in him at all, yeah he has pace but that is very much negated by the fact he is a yard behind the play in his head and has to wait for things to develope before making a movement.

People go on about him not playing in his prefered position and that is true but i have watched him closely when he has played central and his movement and ability to make the right run and the right time is awful, he is very static.
One of the great things about Micheal Owen was his movement off the ball, always playing on the shoulder of the defender looking to spin away, he would work the channels when he had to, Cisse doesnt do this, when he plays central its all back to goal.
He could do worse than watch Robbie fowler closely between now and the end of the season as he would learn an awful lot about great movement off the ball.
I feel this is the reason Rafa prefers him wide as generally when he recieves the ball wide right he is facing the opponents goal and this gives him the chance to use his pace with plenty of space.

He aslo IMO has no guile, his 2 misses against Blackburn summed him up perfectly, it all looks a bit hit as hard as you can and hope for the best, both chances aginst Blackburn should have been tucked away with placement, especially the 1st chance.

I for one wont be at all disapointed to see him sold in the summer as long as we can recoup a decent chunk of our outlay, hopefully he goes the world cup and has a stormer and that can push the price up a few million.

Offline kaptainkop

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Re: My final thoughts on Cisse
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2006, 11:39:20 AM »
If the rumours about Giuly are true, then its an almost certainty that Cisse will be gone in the summer.

My own personal opinion is that while it is obvious that Cisse does have talent its his demeanour of not looking bothered that annoys me and thousands of other Liverpool supporters. Cisse just doesn't look arsed half the time and whether or not that is the truth it is the image he portrays.

Evidence of this can be seen the amount of times we have seen the likes of Xabi, Stevie and Carra bollocking him in games.

Offline Live4pool

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Re: My final thoughts on Cisse
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2006, 11:41:47 AM »
Brilliant first post, summed up everything I think about our "Lord of the manor" I'm another one who likes Cisse, I'd put him in the same category as Garcia, frustrating at times brilliant at times but always capable of getting goals, tho I like Cisse more because of the passion he shows, you cant deny its brilliant to see a player score and celebrate like it like it means the world to him, even the way he celebrates when someone else scores for Liverpool as was mentioned, I'd be lying if i said I wouldnt be sad to see him go in the summer.
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Offline nidgemo

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Re: My final thoughts on Cisse
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2006, 11:48:40 AM »
Decent post, mate, and a passionate defence, but you're seriously deluded.


I'm not a cisse hater, but he's certainly not the player, or even have the ability to be, the player you think he is.

He just doesen't have the first touch (at least not with enough regularity) or cal mind needed to be a top goalscorer. It's something that's inherent, you're born with it - and he doesn't have it. Only his everton goal this season was a truly great goal. That's it. in two seasons, the only sign that there is a great striker in him. And that's not enough.
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Offline woozie

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Re: My final thoughts on Cisse
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2006, 11:53:06 AM »
ive had enough of the bloke,

he moans like jimmy flloyd hasselbaink used to but hes just not as good!


we should sell him whilst he is still worth something, thanks for the goals djib but your not good enuf for lfc.
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Offline zigackly

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Re: My final thoughts on Cisse
« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2006, 11:56:03 AM »
If Cisse was everything we want him to be, then there would be no debate. Sadly he ain't, and I personally doubt he ever will be. I don't think he's cut out mentally to be a squad player, so he would be better off finding his level with another team.
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Offline hide5seek

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Re: My final thoughts on Cisse
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2006, 11:56:34 AM »
Can't wait until he's sold. At least then we won't have to put up with all the drivel about how good he could be. He's actually a pile of junk and GED should be ashamed he paid so much for him.

Offline davidg

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Re: My final thoughts on Cisse
« Reply #20 on: April 21, 2006, 11:59:13 AM »
Not good enough for LFC, full stop
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Offline Dick Emery

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Re: My final thoughts on Cisse
« Reply #21 on: April 21, 2006, 12:08:26 PM »
Here's Gerard Houllier's chance to take him off us and buy him for Lyon for £14 million. I wonder whether that will happen? Ok, maybe not £14 million. What about £10 million?

Offline byrnetred

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Re: My final thoughts on Cisse
« Reply #22 on: April 21, 2006, 12:09:55 PM »

Cisse is not a bad player. His attitude has improved. But I still think we can do better.
the line above is the most important one of the topic..we can do better...
rafa is allways looking for players to improve the team...many of the positions in our team can not be improved such as carra steve g etc...you know who they are...
what it comes down to is can we get a player who is better than cisse and will it improve the team...?
it does not matter if we like the player or hate the player if there is another one out there who we can buy that will improve the team buy him
and in this case in my opinion there are better players out there than cisse
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Offline pinky

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Re: My final thoughts on Cisse
« Reply #23 on: April 21, 2006, 12:12:10 PM »
Watching his videos at Auxerre made me feel very happy about his potential, but I don't think he should stay at Liverpool now. He lacks too many things. He doesn't have ball control, doesn't pass particularly well, doesn't know how to keep the ball, doesn't help much in defensive duties. In summary, he is not a player that suits in the scheme Rafa applies at Liverpool.

Offline Robbo1980

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Re: My final thoughts on Cisse
« Reply #24 on: April 21, 2006, 12:12:40 PM »
Quote
Here's Gerard Houllier's chance to take him off us and buy him for Lyon for £14 million. I wonder whether that will happen? Ok, maybe not £14 million. What about £10 million?

I could easily see that happening and he would be a massive hit there, the game is much slower so he has more time on the ball, his lack of movement is not so much an issue and in general that league is much weaker than the premiership.

Although i very much doubt we will re-coup more that 6-8 million (then again we know how Houllier likes to spend over the odds  :P )

Offline SMD

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Re: My final thoughts on Cisse
« Reply #25 on: April 21, 2006, 12:16:44 PM »
Cisse is like a shotgun.

We need a sniper rifle.
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Offline speker

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Re: My final thoughts on Cisse
« Reply #26 on: April 21, 2006, 12:17:11 PM »
I've no idea whether Cisse will still be with us next year but I'd dearly love to see him stick the ball in the net a couple of times tomorra  :thumbup

Offline myrlas

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Re: My final thoughts on Cisse
« Reply #27 on: April 21, 2006, 12:24:27 PM »
Decent post, mate, and a passionate defence, but you're seriously deluded.


I'm not a cisse hater, but he's certainly not the player, or even have the ability to be, the player you think he is.

He just doesen't have the first touch (at least not with enough regularity) or cal mind needed to be a top goalscorer. It's something that's inherent, you're born with it - and he doesn't have it. Only his everton goal this season was a truly great goal. That's it. in two seasons, the only sign that there is a great striker in him. And that's not enough.

He's been top goalscorer twice in France (yes I know it's France - a different league). And still he hasn't got it in him?

To say that during his L'pool-carreer only the goal against everton was great is...well...deluded mate ;) It was a good goal, but he has scored several goals that from a isolated strikers point of view was better.

And to answer many of the other questions raised:

What striker gets to most chances whan being played up front? In my opinion it's Cisse. And it NOT all about his pace, but about him actually being pretty good at positioning himself in the box when crosses arrive or when teammates has the opportunity to play him in, let's say with a cut-back pass from the touchline. He thinks like a striker, an he has admitted that he has to work on the fact that he can't rely only on his pace. That is easier said than done, but it seems like with Kewell...far too many in my opinion won't give the lad a chance.

He's been asked to do something this season he doesn't really like (playing out right). But he has done his best, and got on with it. He deserves some support for that in my opinion.

And to those of you who wonders about his goals; I wasn't really going to, but I can post you all goals Cisse has scored this season in all competitions both for us and for France (posted many times before in different threads):
Cisse's goals so far this season for France and Liverpool.

He's scored goals with his head, with his leftfoot, right foot, penalties, free-kicks, volleys, tap-ins, one-on-ones, got at the end of crosses in open play and after corners, converted through-balls, put tha ball with ease in the far corner and blasted a few ones into the net.

1. 31/5(off 75) - Hungary (friendly) - Djibril Cisse opened the scoring from close range following a strong run by Sylvain Wiltord

2. 16/7(off 45) - Leverkusen goal 1(friendly) - Fine throughball from Le Tallec. Outruns the defence and blasts the ball in the roof of the net from a tight angle.

3. 16/7(off 45) - Leverkusen goal 2(friendly) - Another throughball. One on one with the keeper he cooly puts it between the keepers legs with the inside of his rightfoot.

4. 19/7(90 mins)  - TNS- A cross from riise. He controls the ball in the right area of the box. Beats a defender and finishes in the corner with his leftfoot.

5. 26/7(90 mins) - Kaunas - another cross from the left . Crouch wins it in the air and heads it down towards Cisse and he beats the defender to get to the ball first. A predator poachergoal, and good link-up play with Crouch.
 
6. 2/8(on 46) - Kaunas - Cross from the left from Garcia. He dummies the defender and gets behind his back to cooly finish with the inside of his rightfoot.

7. 10/8(90 mins) - CSKA Sofia- Throughball from Gerrard from about 20 yards. Cisse is on a diagonal run out left, and finishes with his left foot in the corner

8. 26/8(on 79) - Supercup goal 1 - Cisse taps home from on the line as a deflection runs kindly for him in front of goal.

9. 26/8(on 79) - Supercup goal 2 - Cisse's first shot is saved but he reacts quickest to turn the ball home

10. 3/9(90 mins) - Faroe Islands goal 1 - Powerful Header from cross from the right from Malouda.

11. 3/9(90 mins) - Faroe Islands goal 2 -  Firing under the crossbar from a pass from Wiltord. PS! The 3rd goal classified as an own goal came from a deflected shot from Cisse…

12. 24/9(on 69) - Birmingham - Penalty - sends the goalkeeper the wrong way.

13. 08/10(on 45) - Switzerland - Duel with defender, and his pace gives him the upper hand. He taps the ball right infront of the keeper, and can put it in the empty net. This goal is a result of hard work.

14. 15/10(90 mins) - Blackburn - Cisse drills a free kick low and hard passed Friedel

15. 19/10(off 75) - Anderlecht - Cisse blasts the ball into the net following Hamann's corner into the area

16. 01/11(on 72) - Anderlecht - Cisse gets the ball from Kewell and slots it between the keepers legs.

17. 09/11(on 72) - Cost Rica(friendly) - taking a ball from Vikash Dhorasoo on the edge of the area and curling a shot inside the post.

18. 19/11(off 69) - Portsmouth - Cisse lifts the ball over the keeper and into the far corner from wide right in what was meant to be a cross.

19. 28/12 (90 mins) - Everton - drifted past Weir before curling a low shot into the far corner of the net.

20. 19/3 (90 mins) - Newcastle. Penalty - sends the keeper the wrong way.


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Offline cjmclean

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Re: My final thoughts on Cisse
« Reply #28 on: April 21, 2006, 12:24:39 PM »
You obviously feel really strong for Cissè, and your "feelings for" the man strongly outwayes my "feelings against" him. So I don't have it in me to wright a post with 2000 words ;)

And even though this has been done to absolute death in other treads I'll make a couple of comments on what you say.

You say the thing is with Cissè is that he can be poor for 80 minutes, but still track back and applaud his team mates, yes he does, sometimes. And sometimes is the key word here, IMO players should always do that.

And like numerous people have said before, Morientes offers more to the team than Cissè, and then it's a better option to let Morientes get confidence in the team than Cissè. Not that I think confidence has anything to do with ball controll and vision.

A good example of Cissès limitation was against Blackburn, first you have the two one on ones where he misses. Of course everybody misses from time to time, but when you miss 2 100% chances, how many do you expect us to create during a game? Not to mention the one he put in the post.
But the biggest example was when a long ball was played up to Morientes, you could see Cissè standing there, Moro goes up and wins the header, and then Cissè starts running. Due to his pace he almost catch the ball, but just almost. Had he started running when Morientes went up, he would probably have been one on one again. To me this is his biggest limitation, not his finishing or attitude or anything.

I already hate Inzagi, so no problem there. But there is a difference in the way they are cought in offside. Difference is doing a run trough, or just be standing in offside, as against Blackburn. But as I see it, Cissè running in offside comes from his lack of understanding of the game. He makes bad decisions.

I don't think we can afford to have a "goalscorer" in our team, unless he can come close to 30 league goal a season. But I don't think Cissè have that in him, not even close.

I do think he offers something different to our team, something nobody else in our team have and that is extreme pace. If Cissè would be happy being a bit part player, he might stay. But he is probably on pretty high wages, and he did cost us £14m. I think we can find players out there that can do the same job, and a lot cheaper.

So to sum it up, I don't have anything against the player, and if played to his strenghts he would score a lot of goals. But I don't want Liverpool to play the kind of football, he would have been perfect for Houlliere, so I hope Lyon comes for him this summer.

I think he's gone, IF there is a decent bid for him. And he will go on to score goals, but not for a team that will finish above Liverpool in the PL should he stay in England, or a team doing better than Liverpool in Europe should he leave England.
Brilliant post mate!!

Offline ShanksLegend

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Re: My final thoughts on Cisse
« Reply #29 on: April 21, 2006, 12:31:53 PM »
Not good enough for LFC, full stop

Agreed

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Re: My final thoughts on Cisse
« Reply #30 on: April 21, 2006, 12:36:16 PM »
Wrong player at the wrong club, under the wrong manager at the wrong time I think. I reckon he'd be moderately succesful elsewhere but it won't be for us, that's for sure.
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Offline myrlas

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Re: My final thoughts on Cisse
« Reply #31 on: April 21, 2006, 12:37:11 PM »
I think he's gone, IF there is a decent bid for him. And he will go on to score goals, but not for a team that will finish above Liverpool in the PL should he stay in England, or a team doing better than Liverpool in Europe should he leave England.
I know we've been through this times and times before. But regarding this last point that you often put up. It's kind of a matter of course isn't it?

How many cut-price 24-year old strikers have you ever seen signing for a team that is actually BETTER than the one team you left, and in the same league?

Not many that's for sure. So it's not that much of an argument the way I see it. It's like saying that it's certain that you won't change position in a company with the same duties as before unless you'll have a payrise. Or stating the obvious as they refer to it as in the english language :)

And don't even get me started on the simplific "Morientes offers more to the team than Cisse" argument mate ;)

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Offline mark_lfc_forever

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Re: My final thoughts on Cisse
« Reply #32 on: April 21, 2006, 12:41:13 PM »
he is good in his own way and other teams will enjoy and love him but he isnt a liverpool player im sorry djib but thats my view
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Offline Dick Winters

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Re: My final thoughts on Cisse
« Reply #33 on: April 21, 2006, 12:42:33 PM »
Well put together post Myrlas and as Nidge says you do a sterling job of defending him.

However, I don't like agreeing with Trevor Francis but I have to on this occasion:-

"If his touch was as good as his pace, he would be brilliant..."

Unfortunately Djibril couldn't trap a bag of cement. 

Robbie Fowler, unfit, "his nana could run faster" (he says) and 31 years old is streets ahead of Cisse as a clinical striker. 

We won last week against Blackburn beacuse of a piece of beautiful play between Mori and Robbie.  Cisse had 2 one on ones and missed both - fair play he hit the target but I am sorry I expect my strikers not just to make the keeper work but to score goals too.  Cisse's pace got him into those positions last Sunday but his failings were the reasons he failed to score on both. 

And I promised myself not to get involved in another Cisse debate.

Offline zigackly

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Re: My final thoughts on Cisse
« Reply #34 on: April 21, 2006, 12:45:24 PM »
And don't even get me started on the simplific "Morientes offers more to the team than Cisse" argument mate ;)

Seems to work for Rafa ;)
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Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: My final thoughts on Cisse
« Reply #35 on: April 21, 2006, 12:47:28 PM »
I'm a Cissé fan, although I also think his limitations have been exposed this season. However, it's not been easy for him being in and out of the side, and then shoved on the wing. He needs more TLC than Benítez is prepared to give him, and that affects his confidence.

His scoring rate, when you look at minutes played (considering so many games he's played have been incomplete), is very good. It's about one goal every 180 minutes of football - or one every two games in that sense. That he's achieved this with a lot of those minutes being on the wing isn't bad at all.

But the overall impression remains that he's not comfortable within the system, and that Benítez is looking for someone a little less eratic. Cisse is very good one week, but then puts in a bizarre performance a week later.

I think Cissé will do well at a smaller club where he's the main man, much like he was at Auxerre. He's not the coolest finisher, but he is a natural goalscorer - his record in France and for France (9 goals in 8 starts) proves that. He gets in the positions, and he's hungry for goals. But his composure can desert him.

Sometimes players don't suit teams and managers don't want to focus on that player's strengths at the expense of other areas of the team. It happens.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2006, 12:49:12 PM by Paul Tomkins »

Offline Ole Gunnar

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Re: My final thoughts on Cisse
« Reply #36 on: April 21, 2006, 12:54:43 PM »
I know we've been through this times and times before. But regarding this last point that you often put up. It's kind of a matter of course isn't it?

How many cut-price 24-year old strikers have you ever seen signing for a team that is actually BETTER than the one team you left, and in the same league?

Not many that's for sure. So it's not that much of an argument the way I see it. It's like saying that it's certain that you won't change position in a company with the same duties as before unless you'll have a payrise. Or stating the obvious as they refer to it as in the english language :)

And don't even get me started on the simplific "Morientes offers more to the team than Cisse" argument mate ;)


What I mean is that he isn't good enough for a club with Liverpools ambitions. He will do OK, but not for a big club, thats my point. Thought that was pretty obvious.
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Offline zigackly

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Re: My final thoughts on Cisse
« Reply #37 on: April 21, 2006, 01:03:42 PM »
He's not inconsistent. He plays consistently well against poor defenders :wave

(sorry, couldn't resist that)
« Last Edit: April 21, 2006, 01:06:59 PM by zigackly »
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Offline BCCC

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Re: My final thoughts on Cisse
« Reply #38 on: April 21, 2006, 01:06:17 PM »

Myrlas, I can't see the point in this again as it will just descend into I like him, I don't like the threads before. Everyone as aired their opinion and there will be no change until Rafa has decided his fate. Once we know where Djib will be next season then the debate can resume, until then we're just going over old ground.
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Offline Scouse Mouse

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Re: My final thoughts on Cisse
« Reply #39 on: April 21, 2006, 01:08:08 PM »
You're "final" thoughts on Cisse?

You're only thoughts on Cisse. You've said all of this before. Change the bloody record.
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