Author Topic: ++ Maybe Major Investment News In Another Reality++  (Read 297454 times)

Offline beardsley4ever

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Re: ++ Maybe Major Investment News In Another Reality++
« Reply #4440 on: December 28, 2006, 08:29:02 PM »
Thanks very much for that, Sweet Silver Song.  Very informative.
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Offline ratcatcher

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Re: ++ Maybe Major Investment News In Another Reality++
« Reply #4441 on: December 28, 2006, 08:48:25 PM »
What facilities do you need for a football stadium though? Perhaps I am  wrong here, but I am pretty sure the ground is suitably equipped for fans in wheelchairs. Above and beyond that, what else do you really need? Elevators to Row ZZZ999?

As for the players, its far more important they have modern facilities at Melwood over Anfield. Its there that they spend most of their time.
There are only 80 (eighty) wheelchair viewing points at Anfield. All at pitch level which means the most disadvanyaged fans have a poor view from one end of the ground to another.

Add in there are whole areas of seats (lower centenary each corner plus main stand anny road wing) where the seats actually face other seats ie you have to 'sit' sideways to see the game. Add in restricted views and poor facilities in the main stand.
These are my own opinions. They are not meant or intended as a criticism of anyone else's opinion just because they are different but if you can't see past that, then tough shit!

Offline Kenny

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Re: ++ Maybe Major Investment News In Another Reality++
« Reply #4442 on: December 28, 2006, 09:32:51 PM »
There are only 80 (eighty) wheelchair viewing points at Anfield. All at pitch level which means the most disadvanyaged fans have a poor view from one end of the ground to another.

Add in there are whole areas of seats (lower centenary each corner plus main stand anny road wing) where the seats actually face other seats ie you have to 'sit' sideways to see the game. Add in restricted views and poor facilities in the main stand.

Also restricted views in Anny Rd upper right hand side........

Offline Alan_X

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Re: ++ Maybe Major Investment News In Another Reality++
« Reply #4443 on: December 28, 2006, 09:47:31 PM »
Nice analysis Sweet Silver Song. I agree that the club could have been more aggressive but there's no doubt in my mind that giving something back to the local area was fundamental to the proposals on both sides. I had mentioned in previous posts that the use of the stadium was limited but I thought it was limited to football and rugby including international matches. I hadn't picked up the fact that use for league games was limited to Liverpool, though it's understandable given the emphasis the council placed on minimising the noise impact on the residents.

I hope you noticed there's a condition that there should be a public house at 185 Walton Breck Road - I assume that means keeping the Albert... or is it in the redevelopment area?

I think it's a great deal for the club and though we'll lose the grand old stadium we'll still have the buzz of coming up the Walton Breck Road to the new ground.
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Re: ++ Maybe Major Investment News In Another Reality++
« Reply #4444 on: December 28, 2006, 10:18:12 PM »
Brilliant piece there Sweet Silver Song, enjoyed reading it.

I think that now it seems to be happening I can't help but not want it to happen- a bit like Gareth said earlier; his heart ruling his head. I know we need the new stadium, but This is Anfield we're talking about. It really is going to be emotional when we move to a new home and watch the old one disappear. We as fans will need to set about making that a legendary stadium too, hopefully by then RTK will have taken off and we'll be back to some proper atmosphere. The players and management will need to do their bit to creating our history in the new stadium.


Offline lawrie

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Re: ++ Maybe Major Investment News In Another Reality++
« Reply #4445 on: December 28, 2006, 10:32:57 PM »
Going all gushy like, but I've been in love with the "shitheap" since first sight and although the sad fact of football life is we can no longer live with it, I'm sure gonna miss it when its gone.

Offline Peeker

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Re: ++ Maybe Major Investment News In Another Reality++
« Reply #4446 on: December 28, 2006, 10:49:53 PM »
Has anyone else got a feeling that this whole takeover business is gonna go tits up?

Offline Fred Madison

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Re: ++ Maybe Major Investment News In Another Reality++
« Reply #4447 on: December 28, 2006, 10:53:18 PM »
Has anyone else got a feeling that this whole takeover business is gonna go tits up?
Unfortunately, yep.

Offline Peeker

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Re: ++ Maybe Major Investment News In Another Reality++
« Reply #4448 on: December 28, 2006, 10:57:55 PM »
I understand the clubs caution regarding any takeovers, but we always seem the pan things out.

You can see it coming a mile off..."DIC pull out of Liverpool takeover"

Lets hope im wrong

Offline harrytrow

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Re: ++ Maybe Major Investment News In Another Reality++
« Reply #4449 on: December 28, 2006, 11:16:17 PM »
The capacity may well be in line with olden times crowds, but the difference was those 58 thou didn't all come by car as is the case in these days.
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Offline fru

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Re: ++ Maybe Major Investment News In Another Reality++
« Reply #4450 on: December 28, 2006, 11:23:25 PM »
Has anyone else got a feeling that this whole takeover business is gonna go tits up?

Had thought the same myself. But then seeing DIC come out with such a quick response to the Telegraph article made me think that they are still serious about it, at least for the time being.

Offline Dick Emery

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Re: ++ Maybe Major Investment News In Another Reality++
« Reply #4451 on: December 28, 2006, 11:26:01 PM »
I'm still not convinced this will ever happen. I don't know how long it takes to study the books of a £120 million turnover, relatively straight-forward business. Not very long I'd say so I'm not sure what these people are looking at.

If the stadium does happen, it'll be a total outrage in my opinion. I, for one, don't need new facilities. As someone mentioned, what are these facilities people want? It's simple.....go to the ground and watch the match. What else do you need? People have managed to get by on that basis for over 100 years.

As for the money, the proposed new stadium doesn't make us compete more with Man Utd, Chelsea or Arsenal. We're still behind them in terms of potential revenue and spending power.

Offline ttnbd

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Re: ++ Maybe Major Investment News In Another Reality++
« Reply #4452 on: December 28, 2006, 11:30:06 PM »
I'm still not convinced this will ever happen. I don't know how long it takes to study the books of a £120 million turnover, relatively straight-forward business. Not very long I'd say so I'm not sure what these people are looking at.

It's not just the accounts they will look at, it will be every contract the club is entered into and potentially entering into.  It will be done down to the finest detail to ensure all the figures supplied by the board during negotiations are accurate and to give DIC an idea into what commitments are there for the future.

Think of it as an audit.  An audit takes, generally, a few weeks, if not months in some cases, to perform.  The thing is an audit is only done on a small fraction of the accounts.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2006, 11:34:00 PM by ttnbd »
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Offline AdamBrunt

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Re: ++ Maybe Major Investment News In Another Reality++
« Reply #4453 on: December 28, 2006, 11:39:53 PM »
As for the money, the proposed new stadium doesn't make us compete more with Man Utd, Chelsea or Arsenal. We're still behind them in terms of potential revenue and spending power.

Man Utd make roughly £20M a season more than Liverpool in gate receipts alone. If you're quite happy to see LFC throw away that sort of money when trying to compete then you're mad IMHO.

Offline josemisuncle

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Re: ++ Maybe Major Investment News In Another Reality++
« Reply #4454 on: December 29, 2006, 12:13:05 AM »
It's not just the accounts they will look at, it will be every contract the club is entered into and potentially entering into.  It will be done down to the finest detail to ensure all the figures supplied by the board during negotiations are accurate and to give DIC an idea into what commitments are there for the future.

Think of it as an audit.  An audit takes, generally, a few weeks, if not months in some cases, to perform.  The thing is an audit is only done on a small fraction of the accounts.

I've been involved with a number of takeover audits in the US and trust me months is a good estimate.  Admittedly our books are pretty trivial compared to what we do, but even so it is an involved process.  Expect this to be wrapped no sooner than mid-Jan.

Offline moody

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Re: ++ Maybe Major Investment News In Another Reality++
« Reply #4455 on: December 29, 2006, 12:50:57 AM »
This 20 million that Mancs make is a bit confusing.

We have a current  capacity of 44K compared to the proposed 60K.This is 16K extra.We already have
(I believe ) a planning permission of 10K for the extension at Anfield.So why would this 6K diffrenece account to much in tems of revenue.Also the new 60K capacity will always be less than the current Mancs one(forever).So does this mean that financially we will be permanently disadvantaged compared to Mancs?

Football is about passion , history , locals , tradition and and overall a show of excellence in terms of athletic abilities mixed with game plan over 90 minutes.

This new stadium , fucking cant even imagine me being there.I dread to think of the last game at Anfield.Already my eyes are getting wet.Too emotional.Also I think this Moores is too gullible.Parry is easily taking him for a ride.

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Re: ++ Maybe Major Investment News In Another Reality++
« Reply #4456 on: December 29, 2006, 01:19:55 AM »
The Emirates is smaller than OT but pulls in much more in gate receipts because of the exec boxes- they get a stupid amount of money.

Capacity isn't everything- we could make quite a lot on exec boxes- although maybe not quite as much as Arsenal do.

On the expansion planning permission- first I'm hearing of that actually. In fact Parry's come out and said that developing Anfield further would cost as much as building a new stadium. It's not financially viable.

Offline Alan_X

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Re: ++ Maybe Major Investment News In Another Reality++
« Reply #4457 on: December 29, 2006, 01:27:27 AM »
I don't think there's a current planning approval for expansion of Anfield. If there was one in the past it must have lapsed by now. There were feasibility studies done I think but it's not viable. Anyway the new stadium is too far down the line to go back.
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Offline josemisuncle

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Re: ++ Maybe Major Investment News In Another Reality++
« Reply #4458 on: December 29, 2006, 01:35:30 AM »
I don't think there's a current planning approval for expansion of Anfield. If there was one in the past it must have lapsed by now. There were feasibility studies done I think but it's not viable. Anyway the new stadium is too far down the line to go back.


But this is on about what is going to happen to the EXISTING site!!!!

Offline Alan_X

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Re: ++ Maybe Major Investment News In Another Reality++
« Reply #4459 on: December 29, 2006, 01:59:06 AM »
But this is on about what is going to happen to the EXISTING site!!!!

I was responding to moody's comment about there being approval for 10,000 extra seats at the existing ground. I don't think that's correct is all.
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Offline Curva Nord '77

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Re: ++ Maybe Major Investment News In Another Reality++
« Reply #4460 on: December 29, 2006, 02:01:00 AM »
I'm still not convinced this will ever happen. I don't know how long it takes to study the books of a £120 million turnover, relatively straight-forward business. Not very long I'd say so I'm not sure what these people are looking at.

If the stadium does happen, it'll be a total outrage in my opinion. I, for one, don't need new facilities. As someone mentioned, what are these facilities people want? It's simple.....go to the ground and watch the match. What else do you need? People have managed to get by on that basis for over 100 years.

As for the money, the proposed new stadium doesn't make us compete more with Man Utd, Chelsea or Arsenal. We're still behind them in terms of potential revenue and spending power.


So we should just pack in then?

WHY are we behind ANY club in terms of potential revenue?

Would Arsenal or Chelsea or even Man Utd have taken as many fans to Istanbul?

My fucking arse they would.

United have debt coming out of their ears. Chelsea have mon£y but no real support or history. Arsenal are not in our league.

LFC is potentially the biggest club on the planet.

We need a new stadium to MOVE FORWARD and compete.

If we stay where we are we become Preston or worse, everton.

A bitter has-been club that resorts to calling itself "the people's club".

I want a 100,000 seater stadium - best in the world - I want to win every game we play in between now and the end of Time.

MOVE ON. MOVE UP. DEVELOP. IMPROVE. WIN.

Offline Brother Mouzone

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Re: ++ Maybe Major Investment News In Another Reality++
« Reply #4461 on: December 29, 2006, 10:43:27 AM »
If the stadium does happen, it'll be a total outrage in my opinion. I, for one, don't need new facilities. As someone mentioned, what are these facilities people want? It's simple.....go to the ground and watch the match. What else do you need? People have managed to get by on that basis for over 100 years.

It's the corporate side where the facilities need to imrove.  (although I agree the Main Stand needs improving for all facilities) We don't have the space that the likes of Blackburn and Bolton have for corporates - let alone United and Arsenal.

I know we don't give a stuff about that sort of thing but, if done properly, corporate sales can dwarf the £34 notes the likes of us pay. Like it or not the money comes from TV, sponsorship and the prawn butty munchers.
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Re: ++ Maybe Major Investment News In Another Reality++
« Reply #4462 on: December 29, 2006, 10:51:18 AM »
Thanks for the report Sweet Silver Song some good points some bad, the main theme is the club have not fought the deal out hard enough. do you think DIC will take a look at it and say f**** this, this is not for us, and either pull the plug on the stadium or the investment in the club.

I knew the club where giving a lot over to the local community that made me mad the way the NWDA treated us, if DIC do take control of the club as it is then we can be sure this kind of bullying will come to an abrupt end.
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Re: ++ Maybe Major Investment News In Another Reality++
« Reply #4463 on: December 29, 2006, 11:02:04 AM »
Going all gushy like, but I've been in love with the "shitheap" since first sight and although the sad fact of football life is we can no longer live with it, I'm sure gonna miss it when its gone.

I used to drive past the old Kop and loved watching it rise up from nowhere  as you drove past the Oakfield used to just take my daughters down there if we where anywere near the area, just loved the place, don't have the same feelings for the new Kop, but it is about memories, so in the New Anfield we will build new memories to link with the old. hope they have the biggest bash ever and that it lasts all weekend when we move, or better still just before the wreckers move in
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Offline Dick Emery

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Re: ++ Maybe Major Investment News In Another Reality++
« Reply #4464 on: December 29, 2006, 11:35:51 AM »
Seeing as we've got to move with the times and don't want to be a has-been club,  lets double the price of tickets in the current ground. It's all about money now and we could do this while we're waiting for the new mega-stadium. Who cares about the people who've supported the club from cradle to grave for generations? If you can't pay, don't turn up. We need to compete.

Who's with me on this one? All you with the 'corporate' this and 'facilities' that rubbish, no doubt.


Offline Sweet Silver Song

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Re: ++ Maybe Major Investment News In Another Reality++
« Reply #4465 on: December 29, 2006, 11:43:39 AM »
Thanks for the report Sweet Silver Song some good points some bad, the main theme is the club have not fought the deal out hard enough. do you think DIC will take a look at it and say f**** this, this is not for us, and either pull the plug on the stadium or the investment in the club.

I knew the club where giving a lot over to the local community that made me mad the way the NWDA treated us, if DIC do take control of the club as it is then we can be sure this kind of bullying will come to an abrupt end.

My own personal opinion is that Moores didn't fight our corner as hard as he should of done. Not because he's incompetent, but because he is sentimental and because he wanted to stay as close to our historical home as possible. He basically had our feelings in mind. It was obvious that Liverpool were looking at a number of different sites, both in and outside the city. Most of them were on brownfield sites, where the Council and central government actively encourage redevelopment. Unlike Stanley Park, which is a historical park with listed buildings and monuments. There are planning policies against development on park land and against development which affects listed buildings and monuments. For the Council to forego these policies, it meant they then had leverage to claw back other benefits from the club.

The main alternative was a site at Central Docks, which is about 3 miles away from the existing ground. I have no doubt that the Council would have let us build the stadium here without as much financial and legal obligations as we are currently saddled with. However, imagine what that would have meant for ordinary fans. Our habitual matching going routines would be changed forever, our identity would have been affected, the world wide association of Liverpool Football Club and the Anfield area would have been changed forever.  That's why Moores wanted to stay as close as possible to the existing ground. But, as we can see, this all came at a cost. It meant the Council could require all sorts of add ons, which we couldn't resist too strongly. There was criticism in the Council report that the club didn't examine the possibility of alternatives sites strongly enough. 

But coming back to your original question, no I don't think this is a deal breaker. Although the add on obligations to the Council are extensive, these were all factored into the eventual and overall cost of the stadium, £280m (I think), so DIC were aware of it before they formally announced their interst in taking over the club. I think even without the DIC investment, the club would have been able to afford the add ons by the council, given the extra revenue that the new stadium would have generated. It's just that I think we could have played the Council a bit harder in the planning process and got away with a lot more. But definitely not a deal breaker for the club or DIC.
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Offline ttnbd

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Re: ++ Maybe Major Investment News In Another Reality++
« Reply #4466 on: December 30, 2006, 02:37:29 PM »
apparently there's been something in todays echo about this document.  Anyone read it?
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Offline XabiAlonsoXabi

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Re: ++ Maybe Major Investment News In Another Reality++
« Reply #4467 on: December 30, 2006, 02:40:28 PM »


This article is from www.anfieldroad.com

According to today's Liverpool Echo, the Reds new stadium will be open in two-and-a-half years. The paper claims to have seen "a secret document" revealing Dubai International Capital (DIC) hope to have completed the takeover of the club by February. As soon as the takeover is complete, the new stadium would start to be built, with "less than 28 months set aside for construction."

The report, under the headline "Red's new stadium open by July '09", says the DIC document refers to the club having already spent £10m on the stadium project and also having budgeted to spend a further £10m by March. One important point mentioned in the story is that naming rights on the stadium are being considered, with a figure of £4m per year being reported.

The document is said to include estimates that "at the current bid of £156.7m for 90% of the club's shares, DIC could increase profits, excluding tax and interest, by 25% a year".

The document is said to name Laing O'Rourke as becoming the "likely contractor" for the building work, and that although the deadline of July 2009 is tight, it must be met in order for DIC's investment calculations to work out. To further protect their investment the building contract would be on a fixed price basis, with the contractors facing penalties of £950,000 per week if they overrun the deadline. LFC are "poised" to place orders for materials such as steel and roof cables to meet the "tight schedule". There is a 15-20% contingency built into the estimates for the costs of building the replacement ground.

Part of the costs of building the new ground, £28.5m, would come from grants.

The document reportedly talks of stadium plans being agreed by the end of January, and that trial events should start to take place in July 2009. Trial events are an issue that will be familiar to anyone who followed the long drawn out (and still ongoing) Wembley stadium rebuild, because big events can't be staged until "trial events" have been successfully staged.

The overall takeover costs are broken down as £156.7m for 90% of the shares, £10m in fees for lawyers and £45m to "refinance existing debts". The Echo says the costs will total £221.7m but doesn't mention where the other £10m is being spent.

DIC are planning to raise "£300m through bonds to fund the construction of the new ground which will account for the repayment of £120m of existing debts to fund the stadium, a further £105.8m to complete construction and £5m of professional fees."

According to the report, DIC have approached Bank of Ireland, Royal Bank of Scotland and Bank of America to help fund the project, with Bank of America appearing "to be favourites".

The report also quotes the following lines about the club from the secret document: "Recent performance has been strong and the club appears to be on its way to achieving consistent results both on and off the pitch. Opportunities exist to boost returns by unlocking 'hidden' value, mainly through developing property and leisure projects on the current Anfield site."

The word "brand" is unfortunately used when talking of how the deal will reflect well on the Middle East's link to a "strong brand with an equally strong international fan base".

There's also a mention of existing deals worth £8m with Adidas for the club's shirt deal, and the £21.6m deal with Carlsberg as shirt sponsor. It also talks of the £2.5m Liverpool have set aside for possible legal costs relating to the dispute with Reebok, the previous shirt sponsors who failed to deliver stock on time (Liverpool were said to be having to buy kit from JJB boss Dave Whelan at one stage for sale in the club shop). LFC feel that Reebok don't have a case.

Another revelation from the secret document is that in 2004 Liverpool were subject of three failed takeover attempts, all offering different valuations. The document also claims that George Gillet has been told that DIC are the preferred bidder. It says that David Moores has made the decision to sell because the club needs a capital injection to advance to "the next level and he is unable to provide this himself".

Interesting also is the mention that the document "sets a seven to eight-year period to re-evaluate its investment in the club and includes several option to realise a profit, such as selling the stadium" - which could be where the author of two Manchester United books who wrote a doom and gloom article earlier in the week (Mihir Bose) drew his ridiculous conclusions from. As the Echo says, "such a timetable is normal in takeover deals of this kind. A business plan will include a fixed period to assess the success of the investment, and the Echo understands that DIC intends to retain its holding in Liverpool for the long term".

It seems this whole article is DIC's indirect response to Mihir Bose's article from earlier in the week, and it pours scorn on his claim that DIC won't be providing cash to Rafa Benitez for new signings. It says, "fears that DIC will not provide transfer funds for the manager appear unfounded as the business plan includes a pledge to 'infuse funding for the club to achieve its business plan objectives and drive a virtuous circle of success'".

Another point to take from this story is that when you read the transfer rumours for this transfer window you don't need to pay attention to any that talk of deals depending on the takeover going through. This document shows the takeover won't be completed until after the window has closed.

Offline ttnbd

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Re: ++ Maybe Major Investment News In Another Reality++
« Reply #4468 on: December 30, 2006, 02:46:02 PM »
yeah that's what I've seen but I wanted to see if someone else could give an overview as some (infact it looks like most) detail's in that article are inaccurate/don't add up.
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Offline DannyD

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Re: ++ Maybe Major Investment News In Another Reality++
« Reply #4469 on: December 30, 2006, 10:11:48 PM »
yeah that's what I've seen but I wanted to see if someone else could give an overview as some (infact it looks like most) detail's in that article are inaccurate/don't add up.

Agree with Xabi this looks like the document Bose was on about but with an entirely new and pro spin on it. regards the 7 years the Echo say it is a decision to look at the investment in 7 years and one of the possibilities is selling the stadium. we might get a fright reading that but as the Echo states that would be normal practice for a company to put into a report of this nature, like a  doomsday scenario. Heard the main contractors was going to be Laings but also the first phase of steel has been bought and waiting to be fashioned, early March was the date I was told of a noticeable start, this was way before the DIC deal was made public so it would appear the club and DIC have had talks on how the stadium project should advance, and major decisions taken.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2006, 10:19:10 PM by DannyD »
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Re: ++ Maybe Major Investment News In Another Reality++
« Reply #4470 on: December 30, 2006, 10:13:44 PM »

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Re: ++ Maybe Major Investment News In Another Reality++
« Reply #4471 on: December 30, 2006, 10:14:18 PM »
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/sport/football.html?in_article_id=425559&in_page_id=1779

This is tuning into a joke now.................

Anfield deal hit by leaked plans
By DANIEL KING
 
Last updated at 21:40pm on 30th December 2006
 
 The takeover of Liverpool Football Club by Sheik Mohammed’s company, Dubai International Capital, has been engulfed by a row over secret documents revealing controversial plans to sell off the club at a profit within seven years of any buy-up.

City sources who have seen the proposals warn that the club would have to be run more along the stringent lines of the Glazer family’s Manchester United than the apparently more carefree Roman Abramovich regime at Chelsea.

Last night, DIC gave The Mail on Sunday an insight into their strategy in a bid to reassure Liverpool fans and officials. But the immediate concern for the Anfield board and the Dubai company is how a 30 per cent stake in the club came to be touted around the City by a company which is currently under investigation by the Inland Revenue.

The Mail on Sunday has evidence that Vantis, a financial advisory company, aquired an internal DIC memo and claimed that they were in contact with the group trying to buy Liverpool and that there was an opportunity for other investors to buy up to 30 per cent of the club for £50m.

DIC deny any connection with Vantis. A DIC source said: "Vantis is not working on this transaction and it has no mandate from DIC. DIC does not have a relationship with Vantis in regard to this or any other matter."

Earlier this year, Vantis were involved in the regime change at Southampton, with executive Ken Anderson acting as spokesman for the successful Michael Wilde takeover.

But Anderson, a licensed football agent, was sidelined from that deal when it was revealed that in October 2005 he was banned from being a company director until 2013 for a number of offences.

The Mail on Sunday has seen evidence that Anderson was involved in Vantis’s activities in relation to Liverpool.

Three senior executives at Vantis are also under investigation by the Inland Revenue over allegations of tax evasion in relation to investment schemes set up for high-profile clients, including England rugby captain Martin Corry.

It remains unclear how Vantis came to be in possession of the seven-page DIC document, which, among other things, reveals that the deal to buy Liverpool and build a new stadium would be worth £520m, £365m of which would be debt.

According to the leaked document, due diligence should now be complete and the project is on target for a formal offer in January or February.

But the leaking of the document and the suggestion that 30 per cent of the club would be available to other investors could undermine the Liverpool board’s confidence in the deal.

Liverpool have always known that other institutions from Dubai or the Middle East could be part of a consortium with DIC, but never that investors from elsewhere could be involved and certainly not while DIC are examining the club’s books.

According to emails seen by The Mail on Sunday, Neil Foster, a Vantis executive, told one interested party that Vantis were ‘in contact with the team from Dubai who are currently in discussions to acquire LFC’.

The email goes on to say: "The opportunity exists to acquire up to 30 per cent, with a 15 per cent stake being priced at £25m."

These figures match almost exactly the price DIC have provisionally agreed of £156.7m for all the Liverpool stock, or £4,500 per share.

A later email makes it clear that Vantis had not been engaged by Liverpool or DIC. Nevertheless, they believed that 30 per cent of Liverpool was up for grabs.

Vantis’s motivation was to share with the recipient of the email an introduction fee of three to five per cent, which they would hope to recover from DIC.

Fosterrefused to comment and Anderson was unavailable for comment.

Well-placed sources in the City who have seen the secret document have been as surprised by its contents as by the fact that it has been leaked.

The document effectively states that DIC believe they can reverse the fortunes of cash-strapped Liverpool in seven to eight years, at which point they could consider selling the club.

Experts believe that to meet their target of increasing the club’s value from £160m to £925m, DIC would have to be as aggressive as the Glazers, especially since they, too, would take on huge debts to fund the deal.

As well as borrowing £65m to refinance Liverpool’s existing debt, DIC would seek a loan of £300m to fund the new 61,000-seater stadium at Stanley Park. It would cost about £20m to cover that borrowing every year, roughly equal to the profit Liverpool made in the 2005 season when they won the Champions League.

Leading financiers believe DIC’s plans would fall apart if Liverpool failed to qualify for the Champions League for two years in a row. But last night DIC denied that their deal relied on Champions League football every year.

A DIC source said: "Any debt repayments, or indeed transfer fund requirements, will be manageable regardless of Champions League qualification. DIC will be using leading banks in the field of sports stadium financing and running the project along the lines of other recent successful developments, such as Arsenal’s Emirates Stadium. What the debt level will be is still to be decided, but it will be sustainable and at a level the club can afford."


Offline Coady

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Re: ++ Maybe Major Investment News In Another Reality++
« Reply #4472 on: December 30, 2006, 10:25:28 PM »
uh oh
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Offline lukealexander

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Re: ++ Maybe Major Investment News In Another Reality++
« Reply #4473 on: December 30, 2006, 10:34:56 PM »
I was under the impression DIC would purchase in cash, and no loans would be involved. What would this loan be secured on? If it is on Liverpool's assets or future revenue, it would be quite alike the Man Utd deal. If the level of debt is manageable, then it isn't so bad... but these are definately not good developments, especially the 7-10 year DIC cycle.
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Re: ++ Maybe Major Investment News In Another Reality++
« Reply #4474 on: December 30, 2006, 10:36:20 PM »
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/sport/football.html?in_article_id=425559&in_page_id=1779

This is tuning into a joke now.................

Anfield deal hit by leaked plans
By DANIEL KING
 
Last updated at 21:40pm on 30th December 2006
 
 The takeover of Liverpool Football Club by Sheik Mohammed’s company, Dubai International Capital, has been engulfed by a row over secret documents revealing controversial plans to sell off the club at a profit within seven years of any buy-up.

City sources who have seen the proposals warn that the club would have to be run more along the stringent lines of the Glazer family’s Manchester United than the apparently more carefree Roman Abramovich regime at Chelsea.

Last night, DIC gave The Mail on Sunday an insight into their strategy in a bid to reassure Liverpool fans and officials. But the immediate concern for the Anfield board and the Dubai company is how a 30 per cent stake in the club came to be touted around the City by a company which is currently under investigation by the Inland Revenue.

The Mail on Sunday has evidence that Vantis, a financial advisory company, aquired an internal DIC memo and claimed that they were in contact with the group trying to buy Liverpool and that there was an opportunity for other investors to buy up to 30 per cent of the club for £50m.

DIC deny any connection with Vantis. A DIC source said: "Vantis is not working on this transaction and it has no mandate from DIC. DIC does not have a relationship with Vantis in regard to this or any other matter."

Earlier this year, Vantis were involved in the regime change at Southampton, with executive Ken Anderson acting as spokesman for the successful Michael Wilde takeover.

But Anderson, a licensed football agent, was sidelined from that deal when it was revealed that in October 2005 he was banned from being a company director until 2013 for a number of offences.

The Mail on Sunday has seen evidence that Anderson was involved in Vantis’s activities in relation to Liverpool.

Three senior executives at Vantis are also under investigation by the Inland Revenue over allegations of tax evasion in relation to investment schemes set up for high-profile clients, including England rugby captain Martin Corry.

It remains unclear how Vantis came to be in possession of the seven-page DIC document, which, among other things, reveals that the deal to buy Liverpool and build a new stadium would be worth £520m, £365m of which would be debt.

According to the leaked document, due diligence should now be complete and the project is on target for a formal offer in January or February.

But the leaking of the document and the suggestion that 30 per cent of the club would be available to other investors could undermine the Liverpool board’s confidence in the deal.

Liverpool have always known that other institutions from Dubai or the Middle East could be part of a consortium with DIC, but never that investors from elsewhere could be involved and certainly not while DIC are examining the club’s books.

According to emails seen by The Mail on Sunday, Neil Foster, a Vantis executive, told one interested party that Vantis were ‘in contact with the team from Dubai who are currently in discussions to acquire LFC’.

The email goes on to say: "The opportunity exists to acquire up to 30 per cent, with a 15 per cent stake being priced at £25m."

These figures match almost exactly the price DIC have provisionally agreed of £156.7m for all the Liverpool stock, or £4,500 per share.

A later email makes it clear that Vantis had not been engaged by Liverpool or DIC. Nevertheless, they believed that 30 per cent of Liverpool was up for grabs.

Vantis’s motivation was to share with the recipient of the email an introduction fee of three to five per cent, which they would hope to recover from DIC.

Fosterrefused to comment and Anderson was unavailable for comment.

Well-placed sources in the City who have seen the secret document have been as surprised by its contents as by the fact that it has been leaked.

The document effectively states that DIC believe they can reverse the fortunes of cash-strapped Liverpool in seven to eight years, at which point they could consider selling the club.

Experts believe that to meet their target of increasing the club’s value from £160m to £925m, DIC would have to be as aggressive as the Glazers, especially since they, too, would take on huge debts to fund the deal.

As well as borrowing £65m to refinance Liverpool’s existing debt, DIC would seek a loan of £300m to fund the new 61,000-seater stadium at Stanley Park. It would cost about £20m to cover that borrowing every year, roughly equal to the profit Liverpool made in the 2005 season when they won the Champions League.

Leading financiers believe DIC’s plans would fall apart if Liverpool failed to qualify for the Champions League for two years in a row. But last night DIC denied that their deal relied on Champions League football every year.

A DIC source said: "Any debt repayments, or indeed transfer fund requirements, will be manageable regardless of Champions League qualification. DIC will be using leading banks in the field of sports stadium financing and running the project along the lines of other recent successful developments, such as Arsenal’s Emirates Stadium. What the debt level will be is still to be decided, but it will be sustainable and at a level the club can afford."


Well both the club and DIC have denied any contact with this Vantis group, could it be that a major shareholder or two have engaged Vantis to sell their shares outside of the deal with DIC, but if DIC get 90% of the shares and that is the figure talked about can't they just force the sale of the remaining shares to them so what would be the profit for anyone buying  15% of the shares. wouldn't it be better for the original owner to keep them and get the best price from DIC without paying a middleman like Vantis, looks to be like some share touting going on by a couple of chancers, even the amount of shares doesn't stack up, and from being in contact with the Dubai group to a hasty disclaimer that they are not working for DIC or the club tells me this is the case. For the MOS to use them as a creditable source also tells me the writer is bankrupt of a real source.

If they are saying the shares will be sold by DIC after the take over then why be in such a hurry and use a shyster firm like this when surely they have well respected and trusted international brokers who would do the job for them. Also this is another " leaked" source, but why would a company that has as its head the leader of a very rich country need to go about touting for business through emails. I would guess they are in contact with some very big hitters in the business world.

nothing to worry the deal though and the rest is the mis mashed shite from the other day, notice they don't print any of the DIC response or the Echo articles findings. we said from the start there would be a lot of shit thrown about before the deal is done, the main thing is the club and DIC are united in their endeavor to see it through. The Echo article says that is the case.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2006, 11:13:36 PM by DannyD »
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Offline lukealexander

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Re: ++ Maybe Major Investment News In Another Reality++
« Reply #4475 on: December 30, 2006, 10:38:41 PM »

As well as borrowing £65m to refinance Liverpool’s existing debt, DIC would seek a loan of £300m to fund the new 61,000-seater stadium at Stanley Park. It would cost about £20m to cover that borrowing every year, roughly equal to the profit Liverpool made in the 2005 season when they won the Champions League.


This begs the question what additional revenue would the new stadium generate, in addition to their plans to increase profit around ~20%
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Re: ++ Maybe Major Investment News In Another Reality++
« Reply #4476 on: December 30, 2006, 10:43:06 PM »
I was under the impression DIC would purchase in cash, and no loans would be involved. What would this loan be secured on? If it is on Liverpool's assets or future revenue, it would be quite alike the Man Utd deal. If the level of debt is manageable, then it isn't so bad... but these are definately not good developments, especially the 7-10 year DIC cycle.

don't know how it works with big time deals but there are tax breaks in borrowing for construction, I know if you buy new plant the interest is tax deductable so in effect you get an interest free loan to upgrade your company. The finer points of the deal will be between the old and new owners, but unlike the Glaziers DIC have the wealth to underwrite any loans.
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Re: ++ Maybe Major Investment News In Another Reality++
« Reply #4477 on: December 30, 2006, 10:49:40 PM »
This begs the question what additional revenue would the new stadium generate, in addition to their plans to increase profit around ~20%

That is if we take the MOS figures as acurate, this is another hatchet job like Bose's with the added spice of a shyster firm hanging around the deal, makes it all look very iffy to the outsider and maybe it is just fashioned to get the fans off the bandwagon.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2006, 11:06:45 PM by DannyD »
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Offline ttnbd

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Re: ++ Maybe Major Investment News In Another Reality++
« Reply #4478 on: December 30, 2006, 11:47:15 PM »
Quote
As well as borrowing £65m to refinance Liverpool’s existing debt, DIC would seek a loan of £300m to fund the new 61,000-seater stadium at Stanley Park. It would cost about £20m to cover that borrowing every year, roughly equal to the profit Liverpool made in the 2005 season when they won the Champions League.

That is wrong a few points.

As for increasing profits by 25% per year, from the other article, that would only amount to £2.5m per year (initially).  The new tv deal will be adding more than that (depending on the effect it has on wages) while we'll more than likely have an increased shirt sponsorship deal too next season.
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Offline ttnbd

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Re: ++ Maybe Major Investment News In Another Reality++
« Reply #4479 on: December 30, 2006, 11:48:56 PM »
don't know how it works with big time deals but there are tax breaks in borrowing for construction, I know if you buy new plant the interest is tax deductable so in effect you get an interest free loan to upgrade your company. The finer points of the deal will be between the old and new owners, but unlike the Glaziers DIC have the wealth to underwrite any loans.

You in effect get 30% of the interest back through a saving in the corporation tax bill.
So all say thanks to the Shanks

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