Topic: ++ Maybe Major Investment News In Another Reality++

[Libertine]

people have argued that we have traditionally been amongst the highest spenders in English football and a large part of our success can be attributed to this fact - in many ways this is true.

others have argued that this investment was itself based on success, thus was a more legitimate way of outspending our rivals and maintaining that success - again very true.

however as everyone knows, the economics of football have changed substantially since those days. upward mobility in football has been drastically curtailed in the champions league era and the league has become ever more uncompetitive. in this environment, it's hard to argue that teams not traditionally successful shouldn't be able to use outside investment to attempt to propel themselves to the top (or more importantly the top 4). It's not that chelsea have attempted to do this that bothers people so much as the manner in which they have - the arrogance, dubious transfer practices, gracelessness in defeat and victory etc etc etc.

however we now see the likes of aston villa, west ham, pompey etc with serious investment in an attempt to buy or accelerate the success that can't be easily earned these days. without investment ourselves, it would be increasingly difficult to maintain our top 4 position (or at least have the guarantee that a self-financing stadium would require). we may not like the football world as it is now, but it is what it is and there's no choice but to just keep competing......

[djphal]

I would put money on it that our team will not be recognisable two seasons on from when the deal is signed.

How much??

You are blinded by Chelsea

[filopastry]

Thought this was an interesting piece in today's Indy, apologies if its already been posted.

What do buy when you are one of the world's richest men and you already own everything most other people can only dream of? Yesterday's confirmation that Dubai International Capital, an offshoot of the empire controlled by Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid al-Maktoum, seems to be on the verge of buying Liverpool hammers home the answer: a Premiership football club.

But the motivation behind DIC's move is different to that which inspired the spate of other foreign takeovers in recent years, a well-placed source close to the deal said last night. "This is not about turning Liverpool into a trophy asset," the source said. "It is not a case of Liverpool becoming the sheikh's personal plaything. DIC is a serious international player in all sorts of fields and this is one opportunity among many that makes sense."

To varying extents, it can be argued that Roman Abramovich's purchase of Chelsea and those by Randy Lerner and Eggert Magnusson of Aston Villa and West Ham are cases of rich men (and/or their backers) buying clubs that have little short-term potential to earn significant financial returns on their investment. They simply want to be involved in English football, and profit will be a bonus, breaking even a more realistic goal.

At Manchester United, profit in the long term is certainly the driving factor behind the Glazer family's £790m takeover last year, and remains so. But that buyout also differs from DIC's plan because it was financed by mountains of debt (currently £660m) and thus contains all the attendant risk for the club if things do not work as a planned.

The DIC deal for Liverpool, according to the people planning it, is neither solely about glory-hunting with a billionaire's spare change, nor just a business venture that must pay its own way. Rather it is a strategic move by a company that has huge resources and sees Liverpool fitting into a growing business portfolio, at relatively little cost. Relatively is the operative word.
"Liverpool have great history and tradition and represent an opportunity," one source said. "DIC are comfortable in the UK, as other investments have shown, and comfortable in the leisure sector. They are serious about doing whatever is necessary to make Liverpool genuine contenders to Chelsea and Manchester United again, and have the resources to do it.

"But while acknowledging fully that they're very high-profile, a massive club, in the context of some of DIC's other deals it is a relatively small transaction."

In other words, an initial £450m to fund a takeover, and further cash for players, as and when necessary, is really only small beer to DIC, which should be music to supporters' ears, because there seems, on the face of it, little downside.

DIC will want Liverpool to thrive, because a successful club will become a flagship for its varied international businesses. It will also give Sheikh Mohammed a perfect platform on which to conduct other business. He already has access to some of the world's most prominent movers and shakers through his involved in horse racing. What better place than a successful football club, playing in the world's richest league, to offer hospitality and promote your country?

DIC was established in 2004 as an investment group that business insiders believe intends to invest around £20bn globally in various sectors in the coming five years. Already in Britain it owns the Tussauds group (bought last year for £750m), and the Travelodge hotel chain (bought for £610m) and the engineering company Doncasters Group (£600m). It has also bought a two per cent stake in the German-US car manufacturer Daimler-Chrysler for £500m. These are all businesses from which DIC intends to make money. Buying Liverpool would fit into the company's strategy for another reason, as part of Dubai's ongoing efforts to market itself.
"Buying a football club makes sense with a lot of what is happening in Dubai," another source said. "They [the Dubai ruling elite, and by extension, DIC] are doing all sorts of things in and around Dubai in terms of business, tourism, sports and leisure and owning a football club like Liverpool fits together very nicely. English football is an incredibly powerful international brand."

As for questions about the day-to-day running of Liverpool, as and when the takeover concludes, it seems the status quo will be maintained. "If you're asking whether, in six months' time, the directors' box will be a sea of Arab faces, then no," said a source. "DIC's usual strategy is to support existing management, and invest in growth."

This will hearten Liverpool's manager, Rafael Benitez, who said last night in Istanbul ahead of Liverpool's Champions' League game against Galatasaray: "At the moment I only really want to concentrate on the match here, but of course it is always good for a club to have more money and more possibilities."

http://sport.independent.co.uk/football/comment/article2040142.ece

[djphal]

Thought this was an interesting piece in today's Indy, apologies if its already been posted.
 

I like this bit

They are serious about doing whatever is necessary to make Liverpool genuine contenders to Chelsea and Manchester United again, and have the resources to do it.

[Red-juvenated]

Its going to ba a long 30 days before we get to know the outcome of this deal.

It sounds just ideal for our club as DIC intend to use the popularity of LFC to promote Dubai globally as a centre of culture and business. They will ensure that the club is managed and run by the best professionals and at the moment there's no better than Rafa, Parry and Moores.

Sounds fantastic!

[SwedenRed]

Actually incorrect since football was very different in them days - we EARNED our money through winning football games not foreign investment and unlike Chelsea we needed a manager to come in and get us promoted and revolutionise the club without money.  You can't compare the old Liverpool regime with modern football

Dont agree... Back in those days we STILL were one of the biggest Clubs in terms of what we paid for players.

[Fred Madison]

Its going to ba a long 30 days before we get to know the outcome of this deal.

Why?

[mcevand]

Well said Benitez25.  I am astounded by some of the views on this thread.  Here we are, quite possibly on the verge of transforming our club into modern times, and some fans are moaning about it.  We have been crying out for investment for the past few years, now when we get ot, some think its doom and gloom.  Look at it this way.  Would you rather have tweedle dee and tweedle dum (Moores and Parry) running the club without money, or a major player with £200m straight away for the new stadium, £80m to wright off the debt straight away and then money for new players - something even Moores said he hasn't got, running it?  I know what my answer is, and the sooner this deal is done the better.

[harrytrow]

Benitez5
For goodness sake...will you get out of this "legends of the past" mentality, that alot seem to have on here.
Those players/managers will always be recognized for what they achieved with LFC, but their era has gone now and we are living in 2006/7 - not the 1970's or 80's anymore.
I'm sorry if this offends alot of fellow reds..but i really could not care less if our new owner knows those names or not.
All i care about is if he puts the money into LFC and we go on to win league titles and European cups in the future.
I really am sick to death of this constant harping back to the golden era of the 70's and 80's.
Its gone and will never be coming back.
Remember it by all means - but all that is important is what happens now and in the future.

Absolutely spot on.
Tradition is not having our owner on mastermind - specialist subject players and managers of LFC - but a person who adminsters the business of Liverpool football club in keeping with traditions of the past, acting with integrity and honesty, whilst keeping the team at the forefront of the sport with the aim of achieving success on the field.

[Heno]

How much??

You are blinded by Chelsea

No mate, Ive been around a lot longer than that.

[Heno]

I like this bit

They are serious about doing whatever is necessary to make Liverpool genuine contenders to Chelsea and Manchester United again, and have the resources to do it.

Who's blinded from who?

[Alan_X]

The biggest problem I see is TomB's point that we will become a new Chelsea in the eyes of other supporters, except Roman is a white European and a footy fan, whereas ours will be an Arab, a terrorist, an oppressive fundamentalist despot or whatever other slurs they can invent.

It'll gain us loads of Muslim fans (not that we don't have loads now) and make us a focal point of any anti-Muslim sentiment.

Haven't finished reading the thread but I thought this was worth commenting on.

I was in the lower anny for pompey - right next to the away fans... apart from their two boring songs (I'd slit my wrists if I had to sing "play up pompey" and "blue army" over and fucking over again) the rest of the times we were listening to the following gems: "feed the scousers..."  "Who nicked my stereo..." etc...  So instead of being bindippers we'll be what? One of the best run clubs in the country, with a new stadium and a solid financial base, the heart of a great team and the best manager in Europe...  who gives a fuck what new songs they sing... won't be any worse than the shite they sing already.

And I don't think anyone except the terminally stupid, could portray Maktoum as a terrorist or the UAE as a fundamentalist state.

[harrytrow]

Haven't finished reading the thread but I thought this was worth commenting on.

I was in the lower anny for pompey - right next to the away fans... apart from their two boring songs (I'd slit my wrists if I had to sing "play up pompey" and "blue army" over and fucking over again) the rest of the times we were listening to the following gems: "feed the scousers..."  "Who nicked my stereo..." etc...  So instead of being bindippers we'll be what? One of the best run clubs in the country, with a new stadium and a solid financial base, the heart of a great team and the best manager in Europe...  who gives a fuck what new songs they sing... won't be any worse than the shite they sing already.

And I don't think anyone except the terminally stupid, could portray Maktoum as a terrorist or the UAE as a fundamentalist state.

That sums up the majority of away supporters surely

[beardsley4ever]

I think that the most shocking piece of information in all of this is that DIC paid £750m for Tussauds. You havin a giraffe?

[djphal]

No mate, Ive been around a lot longer than that.

meaning?

you think just because we have found an investor with money we will turn into Chelsea

Who's blinded from who?

you are blinded by abramovich

[Lecter]

as far as i can remember we are a private limited company, i think the difference is shares aren't traded on the stock market so we can't be bought out like the mancs were (someone buying up shares until he has the required ammount to force a takeover)

We are a PUBLIC LIMITED COMPANY not a Private Limited Company

We are not listed on the London Stock Exchange

We can be bought out like the Mancs because although our shares arent traded on the stock market you can still purchase our shares through a stock broker and the shares are open for purchase by the general public (provided you go through the right channels)

Many of the rules and regulations of Stock Exchange listed companies also apply to us and almost certainly we have to adhere to the rules and regulations of the Takeovers and Mergers Panel

[Skeeve]

All this traditionilist shite makes me laugh. When we were successful we were the ones buying the big names. Dalglish, Beardsley, Barnes etc. We were the team many people hated as the Chelsea of our day.

Do you also remember how we paid for beardsley and barnes, it was by flogging rushie when he wanted to play abroad, thats a crucial difference, that us, even the mancs and arsenal have over chelsea, it was the money we earned we were spending.

Personally, I don't expect our spending to change hugely, we have money for players now and will have more each year once the new stadium is paid for, our potential new owners are going to want us to succeed as it improves their investment, but its still a business and not just a billionaire's plaything like chelsea now are.

[elrojoyoda]

The way I see things is - yes, we needed investment in order to compete with Chelsea in order to win number 19! People may not agree with the greed but unfortunately the world revolves round money!

I think Rick Parry and David Moores have ensured that whoever takes over sticks to the values of our great club! I don't think it'll be a case of buying players with the greatest marketing value like Chelsea! I would be mortified if Rafa doesn't have get the players that he wants and that the clubs transfers are decided at boardroom level!! Rafa will not change just because of the opportunity to have a open cheque book - he will bring in players who he thinks will fit into the current team mould!

We needed a big financial backer in order to get the new stadium built! We have that! What has frustrated me over the last 18 months is the fact that we have missed out on players because of the odd million or two!! We now have that ability!

[djphal]

We wont win the league title again until we do "turn into Chelsea" simple as...
Forget this "doing it the Liverpool way" - it applied to decades gone by, but does not apply anymore.

Get out of the past! we are not turning into Chelsea!! we dont need a whole new squad
you are living in the past

[Lecter]

we are a private limited company, the only way someone can get their hands on the club is to buy out the majority share holder, the mancs were a public limited comany so it was possible for glazer to buy up shares available on the stock market until he got the required ammount to force a takeover under stock market rules

Glazer did force a takeover however....

You can only compulsory purchase the remaining shares when you reach a 90% stakeholding

However if you reach a 30% stakeholding then you have to give the remaining shareholders the opportunity to sell to you - although they can refuse

The difference is Moores owns 51% of our club, Granada 9.9% and Morgan 5% ish so there is much less volume available of our shares for them to get to 30% and also they are not traded on a free stock market, instead they are traded on a matched basis through an official broker

[filopastry]

I think that the most shocking piece of information in all of this is that DIC paid £750m for Tussauds. You havin a giraffe?

Its a bit more than just the waxworks though !

http://www.tussauds.com/company_information/the_attractions.asp?css=1

[Alan_X]

Jeez... 15 pages in two days about nothing. Fuck knows what it'll be like if there's actually any news.

So now we know   

[djphal]

Lol...read my posts will you?
I'm one of the rare few around here actually trying to live in the modern day!!!

ha sorry i wasnt talking to you my head is battered

[Raul!]

Doubt if we will have DIC on the shirt of the deal goes ahead.  That will depend on at least two things:

1. DIC's desire to advertise the DIC brand.  More likely they will want to publicise an actual trading brand from one of the companies they own.

2.  The new board's financial perspective on earning revenue from a shirt deal with a third party versus the value they would see in publicising one of their own brands.

So I would think there is limited chance of our shirts saying DIC.

[Heno]

meaning?

you think just because we have found an investor with money we will turn into Chelsea

you are blinded by abramovich

Not at all, my problem with this investment is the fact that if the club accepts this deal, which as it looks like is a certainty, LFC will be slagged off when we win something, fair enough we need a cash inflow but selling the whole club is for me a drastic step.

Naturally we can enjoy the plus points but I have supported the club/team through thick and thin so I do have an issue with dare I say it the easy option.

Sidenote:Does anyone think this deal is the saviour of LFC?

[Fred Madison]

Imagine logo-less shirts. Wouldn't that be awesome.

[Kop4]

I was in the lower anny for pompey - ..........we were listening to the following gems: "feed the scousers..."  "Who nicked my stereo..." etc...  So instead of being bindippers we'll be what? One of the best run clubs in the country, with a new stadium and a solid financial base, .....................

Add to that:

Build a bonfire...
Sign on........
In your Liverpool......

Have to echo the sentiment and hope that this investment together with the regeneration of the city will finally put and end to the negative stereotyping we constantly have to endure.

[NickoH]

In a bizzare sort of way mcevand...i could actually curse those names mentioned...Rush,Dalglish,Shankly,Paisly etc
What those "legends" of the past have done unintentionally is leave modern Liverpool in complete and utter limbo were by nothing that any Liverpool team or manager does now or in the future will ever be good enough when compared to them.

Utter shite........

What about Istanbul or arguably the greatest FA Cup Final ever v West Ham ? Did they not get universal praise for these ?

[Serge]

http://www.tussauds.com/


i don'y think 750m is to much for the tussauds group considering it's a little more than a few wax works

[fudge]

General Zod




Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid al-Maktoum

Finally an owner that understands all the marketing opportunities,  he's already got his own website.

http://www.generalzod.net

Kneel before Zod...

[courty61]

http://www.tussauds.com/


i don'y think 750m is to much for the tussauds group considering it's a little more than a few wax works

The Tussards group own Alton Towers and also Thorp Park amongst other things too

[NickoH]

The Tussards group own Alton Towers and also Thorp Park amongst other things too

So they might take us for a ride then

[TipTopKop]

Well said Benitez25.  I am astounded by some of the views on this thread.  Here we are, quite possibly on the verge of transforming our club into modern times, and some fans are moaning about it.  We have been crying out for investment for the past few years, now when we get ot, some think its doom and gloom.  Look at it this way.  Would you rather have tweedle dee and tweedle dum (Moores and Parry) running the club without money, or a major player with £200m straight away for the new stadium, £80m to wright off the debt straight away and then money for new players - something even Moores said he hasn't got, running it?  I know what my answer is, and the sooner this deal is done the better.

Good post. What I want to know is, why the hell are we £80m in debt as some reports suggested ??

In the dark days of GH I used to ask why the likes of Roma had Totti and Barca could land Ronaldinho, and I was always met with the usual "do you want us to have debts like those clubs ? no thanks, Moores knows what he's doing", so we'd settle for Heskey, Vignal, Cheyrou etc.

If DIC can do one thing right, it's to get rid of this "tweedle dum and tweedle dee" asap. They have iced this club back in the 20th century, held on to their so called traditions until nearly every club we call competitor has passed us by off the pitch (and some on the pitch as well), and yet NOW all traditions go right out the window, and a sale looks to be made, possibly 10 bloody years too late.

If there's one thing I'll enjoy seeing, it's DIC (or whoever buys this club) making decisions they see fit to take this club further (firing a manager if he's not doing well, not hanging on as with GH, buying top players, and yes, even having one of those bloody distracting digital side scrolling advertisement boards if it makes us any bloody money), why ? because hanging on to these 'traditions' ultimately got us this far, that we can't go on for 2 sentences, without talking in the past tense.

[davidg]

Kneel before Zod...

 

[beardsley4ever]

TipTopKop - that is one of the most idiotic posts I've read on this thread.

Moores and Parry have maintained us as a club that handles things the right way and still delivers major trophies. And we aren't 80m in debt.

[Raul!]

A slightly humourous take on current events from the Guardian's Fiver:

TIME DUBAI A FOOTBALL CLUB

Watching Liverpool shun one takeover bid after another, the Fiver couldn't help but worry that this once great English club might never find a suitable investor. Spurning in turn the lustful advances of Steve Morgan, Robert Kraft, Thaksin Shinawatra, Steve Morgan, George Gillett Jr, and Steve Morgan, Liverpool looked increasingly set for a slow decline into mid-table mediocrity, ready to be usurped by her less scrupulous Premiership rivals, who had jumped so readily into bed with the first wad-waving investor to come along.

Which is why it comes as some relief today to hear that Dubai International Capital [DIC], the investment arm of the Dubai government, are now in exclusive talks with the world's best-known Scouse outfit (that isn't The Beatles or a polyester shell-suit) after lodging a bid worth close to £400m for the club, and expect to begin due diligence, which sounds important, within days.

"Liverpool's investment requirements are well publicised," waffled DIC chief executive Sameer al-Ansari, making reference to the club's planned move to a new 60,000-seater stadium at Stanley Park. "We hope we can agree a deal that will provide us with the opportunity to fund its needs both on and off the pitch," he continued, making reference to the £200,000-a-week raise that'll be required to keep $tevie Me out of Chelsea's clutches again this summer. Neither cost should prove too big for DIC's owners and far-from-fake sheikhs, the Maktoum family - who also serve as Dubai's ruling family and hold many lucrative investments including the Tussauds Group and Travelodge.

Chairman David Moores and chief executive Rick Parry remained in Liverpool as the team travelled to Istanbul for their Big Cup tie with Galatasaray, but since the club neglected to confirm the story until fifteen minutes after Fiver deadline, here are some musings from Liverpool Echo scribe John Thompson. "Make no mistake, this is very, very exciting news for Liverpool, and a major coup for Parry," he dey-do-doh-don't-dey-dohed, as a mob of supporters prepared to strangle the first hack to write anything negative with a black armband. "Others will sit up and take notice." With the Maktoum's family fortune stretching to several billion dollars, here's betting that Pini Zahavi is among the first.

[GBF]

In the dark days of GH I used to ask why the likes of Roma had Totti and Barca could land Ronaldinho, and I was always met with the usual "do you want us to have debts like those clubs ? no thanks, Moores knows what he's doing", so we'd settle for Heskey, Vignal, Cheyrou etc.

why GH days were dark? UEFA, League Cup, FA Cup, Super Cup...and you call that dark?

Dark days were when Souness was here as manager....dark days were Spice Boys were in control of the team when Evans was here

GH did the foundation that Rafa is building on...Academy, training facilities, diets, disciplines, no player greater than the club attitude, etc

[TipTopKop]

TipTopKop - that is one of the most idiotic posts I've read on this thread.

Moores and Parry have maintained us as a club that handles things the right way and still delivers major trophies. And we aren't 80m in debt.

Mate...
http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,,1964137,00.html

"DIC recognises that it would also need to guarantee the club's £80m debts and fund the £200m construction of a stadium in Stanley Park. Yet both the club and the Dubai-based company's chief executive, Sameer al-Ansari, suggested that, along with the stadium development, funds would be provided for Rafael Benítez to strengthen his playing squad"

http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100regionalnews/tm_headline=dubai-will-buy-reds&method=full&objectid=18205841&siteid=50061-name_page.html
"The deal will fund the building of the Reds' new 60,000 seater, £200m stadium in Stanley Park, clear the club's £80m debt and bring significant funds to develop Liverpool on and off the pitch, enabling them to continue to compete for the world's top stars"

[Sasquatch]

Dont agree... Back in those days we STILL were one of the biggest Clubs in terms of what we paid for players.

No were weren't. Between Kenny signing in '77 and Barnes and Beardsley signing in '87 we had a good ten years of unequaled success but never spent big on players like Man Utd, Forest, Spurs and Arsenal did. Nearly all of our players were bought on the cheap from lower leagues or came through the ranks. It took Liverpool a long time to shell out on million pound players that Utd and Forest did years before us.

[djphal]

Finally an owner that understands all the marketing opportunities,  he's already got his own website.

http://www.generalzod.net

Kneel before Zod...

haha brilliant