Topic: LFC.TV Column: Why so many Asians and Muslims support LFC

[Harry_Wong]

Lots of different reasons, primarily Liverpool's success - that's puts the club in front of people, especially on tv. Many stories start with that point, Liverpool was the the football team children growing up in past era could follow on tv.

John Barnes may well be the the second reason - people want heroes they can idenitfy with. Ian Wright and Thierry Henry have had a huge influence on kids in the years since Barnes.

Muslim women in a football league of their own
By Arifa Akbar
Sep 15, 2005, 09:44
Rimla Akhtar was the only girl in her school football team. As a teenager, her idols were Gary Lineker and Paul Gascoigne.

Her room was plastered with posters of the Liverpool players John Barnes and Jamie Redknapp and she was a regular on the terraces at Anfield. By the time the film Bend it Like Beckham was released in 2002, featuring Parminder Nagra as a footie fanatic, Ms Akhtar, 22, from north London, was streets ahead of her fictional counterpart.

Barnes & Carra, what more could a girl dream of?

Liverpool ‘fan’ jailed for ‘sickening’ racist violence

A LIVERPOOL fan who made racist remarks to a fellow supporter during a match was jailed for two years and banned from football games for six years.
Thirty-five-year-old Paul McManaman was convicted of racially aggravated assault after a Liverpool Crown Court jury heard how the incident between him and the victim, Balbir Singh Sangha, happened during half-time in the Liverpool-Valencia game on 9 August last year at Anfield.
While McManaman was in the concourse area behind the main stand he encountered Mr Sangha who had travelled to the city from his Dudley home with his six-year-old daughter and two nephews.
McManaman asked him where he was from and Mr Sangha said Birmingham. McManaman said he was "a Paki, Liverpool doesn't like Pakis and Pakis are not welcome ."
Mr Sangha could not believe it and tried to reason with him, saying, "We both support the same team, we share the same passion". But McManaman punched him in the face under his eye and sent him sprawling to the ground and he was left badly bruised and with continuing ear problems.
Liverpool FC sent him four complimentary tickets for their Boxing Day match which he attended but he has not been back to watch his beloved team again.
"It was an appalling incident and one for which you have shown no remorse," Judge Brian Lewis told McManaman.
"You were convicted of playing your part in an incident which besmirched the reputation of Liverpool, both the city and the football club," he said.
"It took place in a crowded public place and anyone who has been to a football match can readily understand how it could quickly have developed into serious public disorder.
"You must face an immediate custodial sentence not just to punish you but to make it clear to others that this sort of behaviour will not be tolerated.
"It is difficult to imagine a more calculated and sickening piece of racial abuse," added Judge Lewis.
Jonathan Duffy, defending, said that it had been an unprovoked attack but had not been pre-meditated and had been a single blow. "He is guilty of one isolated moment of madness."
He said that McManaman, who has no convictions for violence and who has a four-month-old daughter, still denies he was responsible for the attack.

I think the key points may the appropriate sentence, and the gesture from the club.

Media information - 27 May 2005
Black and Asian fans revel in Liverpool's victory
An unusual but welcome side to Liverpool's Champions League victory was highlighted today by football's anti-racism campaign, Kick It Out.

Campaigners have hailed the multi-cultural make up of Liverpool fans in Istanbul. The numbers of black and Asian fans visible amongst the thousands of Red's fans celebrating Liverpool's incredible and unlikely Champion's League victory on Wednesday could be significant in heralding the dawn of a new multi- cultural era in the game.

Liverpool is a diverse and multi-cultural city but the football team's disproportionately large minority ethnic following is not born out of the make up of the city but the era of the clubs domestic and European dominance.

In the seventies and eighties, when Liverpool were last at the top of European football, many black and Asian fans from London, Birmingham and other UK cities, were just cutting their teeth as football fans.

Many of the new black and Asian fans were in the formative years and had fathers and uncles who were from the Caribbean, Africa and Asia, who saw football as a poor substitute for their passion for cricket.

The prevailing worries about crowd violence and racism in the stands meant that many of these black and Asian fans were 'armchair supporters' choosing the most exciting team to cheer on rather than the one closest to their homes. In the seventies and eighties that meant Liverpool.

As football has become a safer place, more black and Asian fans have felt able to attend matches and follow local teams.

Amongst younger black and Asian fans Arsenal, Manchester United and teams in inner city areas, like Tottenham, are more popular but the among thirty-somethings Liverpool is a strong brand.

Maurice Mcleod, a fervent black Liverpool fan from London, said: "I would never have been allowed to go to football as a kid. My mum just heard too many scary stories about the fans.

"Liverpool were amazing back then and I became hooked. I only really starting going to games as an adult and had to make sure I got out to Istanbul. Wednesday's heroics may well spurn a whole new generation of black and Asian Reds."

Zakir Issap, an Asian fan from Blackburn, told of "thousands of Asian fans in Istanbul."

"I saw every section of the Asian community represented out there. From guys with long Muslim beards to those whose only religion is football.

"Winning the trophy created an atmosphere beyond anything I ever seen. The sheer numbers of national fans, not from or living in the city of Liverpool, was just incredible."

Piara Powar, Director of Kick It Out remarked: "This may be a very significant cultural moment. The presence of so many fans in Istanbul from every section of Britain's minority communities, feeling comfortable in a red shirt shows what can be achieved when the circumstances permit.

"Liverpool may not be only the only Premiership club with large numbers of black and Asian fans but the diversity of their fans has added a new dimension to the achievement of winning the European Cup."

I think the complection of the crowd in the final, and the semi could have an influence on viewers.

[BazC]

I believe that 1st generation Asian immigrants who came in the 70's-80's would be interested in football from their working class colleagues at work. Also, watching football in that era.. well it was only Liverpool wasn't it?

Me personally, whilst my parents coming from India DOES coincide with the glory years, it's not because of them that I support Liverpool. I don't know how it happened, it just did. Hardly a 'glory' supporter- because when I did start supporting Liverpool it was ManU who the glory was going to (early 90's). Being such a young supporter then, I didn't know I was supporting the most successful team in England- because no one told me, and I was too ignorant to find out. Only as I grew older, did I find out about the club's illustrious history. Someone said earlier, as you grow older- you learn of the passion and sorrow. That's 100% right.

I'm sure it's different for supporters whose parents got them supporting Liverpool- they would have been around that passion and sorrow, however, there is a small number of people (like me) who developed it.

Weird how this happens.

[Mighty_Red]

John Barnes may well be the the second reason - people want heroes they can idenitfy with. Ian Wright and Thierry Henry have had a huge influence on kids in the years since Barnes.

Forgot to mention that, tho Barnes wasnt there when i started supporting the reds, he was no1 in my eyes for years, and im sure many 25-30 year olds will agree not jus the black & asian fans (despite the achievements from the other legends)

"Pass is to Barnes" - classic quote from The Real McCoy (who remembers that

[straw_donkey]

Incidentally, another pertinent question would be whether Liverpool is the most popular British team in Israel, since we have had 2 (Jewish) Israeli players in the past: Avi Cohen and Ronnie Rosenthal.

Well, I don't know about the most popular FC in Israel, the mancs got their own share I would say... and lots of Jews who made Aliyah (immigrated...) to Israel have their own teams they've been following, mostly Spurs fans, some gooners etc. Nowadays you might see one or two west ham fans here as well

But is does have the best run english football website in hebrew http://liverpool.ios.st/Front/Tools/homepage.asp
( I'm one of the mods, ahem)... we just got the OK from Anfield acouple of months ago -  so we're now with the other int'l clubs at The Association of International Branches

Avi Cohen actually wrote us a letter to congratulate us for celebrating our 1st year anniversary and the recognisition of the club:

http://liverpool.ios.st/Front/NewsNet/reports.asp?reportId=139440


Hello to all the LFC supporters in Israel.

My introduction with Liverpool FC was in February 1979, when I set out for trials at the club.


From that day on, I became a loyal supporter of the club who has the best supporters on the globe.

I've had  moments sweeter than honey, and memories who would not leave me till this day. In my three years in Liverpool I've learned that the power of the club wasn't only to do with the proffesional way it's being run, but mostly because it's been followed by a huge amount of supporters from all around the world.

It's hard for me to describe what I've felt as a player on the pitch, because the atmosphere at Anfield was electryfing every match.

A reminder of that wonderful crowd I've received at the finals of the champions League between AC Milan and Liverpool FC, which was set in Turkey, last year.


When Liverpool were three goals down I sat with Alan Kennedy at the stand, and together we've watched tens of thousands of Liverpool supporters, who came from all over the world, cheering and pushing Liverpool on from the gaffa to the last player, to a historic comeback not witnessed for a very long time (and I doubt will ever be witnessed again...)

I was glad to find out that finally Israel also has it's own official supporters club, and I wish the supporters  to cotinue enjoying the team, because you can 'change' a wife maybe, but you can never change a football club - especially not a club like Liverpool.


Yours,

Avi Cohen



----

And since Turkey is not too far away from Israel, and you could always get cheap flights from here to there - I was one of a few hundreds of Israeli supporters who flew in to Turkey.

Lost my voice for a few days after that thing...

[redchiz]

Avi Cohen actually wrote us a letter to congratulate us for celebrating our 1st year anniversary and the recognisition of the club:

I was smiling and choking at the same time as I read Avi's message. Now by no stretch of the imagination could he be described as a Liverpool 'great.' But yes, some of us remember him and acknowledge what he did when he played for us. What I have probably never realised before (as a local who took all this for granted) is the impact that our wonderful football club has had and continues to have far beyond what and where we imagine it to be. For Avi to have learned and taken and kept some of that passion from his time with us is a wonderful thing.

I'll probably have to go and have a sentimental little reminisce/cry now... 

[zigackly]

Met a sound Israeli lad in Istanbul, after the game. He had to get back to the Ataturk airport within an hour or summat impossible and the buses were royally fucked. Met him by asking if he knew which bus to get, and when he told me his situation I said "don't worry lad, we'll get there". Cue some madness, as I tried to make good on the promise. Anyway, after getting on the wrong bus, realising our plight, breaking out of the moving bus, and walking about a mile, we eventually hijacked a taxi and managed to agree a price that wasn't too ripoff. Got him to the airport, somehow, with just enough time to spare before his flight left. Sound. We were going to the airport eventually, but were hoping to fly by Taksim first. If I hadn't sorted him out I might still be out there, because there's no way I would have made my plane the next morning! And yeah, this probably isn't the best thread for the story, but the posts about Israeli supporters brought it to mind.

[Not worthy]

As an asian, i was offended by the article. If the article is about asians, then keep it so, if its about muslims then keep that so, but there is no reason to mix the two as such unless you say muslim asians, it was vague as to me it looked like asians  plus muslims.

There is a significant amount of Hindus, Sikhs, Christians asians that dont have much in common with asian muslims and would not want a headline to appear as such. Or want to hear about muslim converts in our leisure time given the violence/rape that was used by islamic forces in the east  to convert a lot of people in that area (sorry getting deep here).

 i was suprised to see that on main page of the official site as i think it is irrelevant in the wider scope of things. I think they should vet articles on merit and question people that may be talking nonsense

   I want to hear about Liverpool players etc on the main page, not something like that. i dont think the guy has the right to make comments that
a) he is not qualified to make just because of his colour (same as mine) 
b) the average fan (inc me) is simply not interested in hearing, not because of racism, but there was nothing remotely there to warrant it.

[redchiz]

As an asian, i was offended by the article. If the article is about asians, then keep it so, if its about muslims then keep that so, but there is no reason to mix the two as such unless you say muslim asians, it was vague as to me it looked like asians  plus muslims.

You see mate, the way I read it was as if the headline said: Asians and Muslims....and Poles and Germans and Martians etc.... Just people from different places and cultures who make up this community of ours which is LFC. Except it palpably isn't. Neither on this thread, nor the Macedonia/Greece infighting thread that seems to have inadvertently started somewhere else. Shame.   

[Arch_Stanton]

Although the article doesn't answer the question, I think my own experience can go some of the way to explain it.

Growing up a stones throw away from Upton Park in the 70's, I, like a lot of fellow Asian kids had to endure the local skinheads. Getting a good kicking from them was a way of life. Even at that age 8/9 it didn't escape me that these skins were into football, and all supported West Ham. You'd get a good kicking with them singing songs demonstrating their allegiance with West Ham. You'd often get a beating if you didn't respond with the right answer to the question "Oi, Paki! What team you support?". Even if you said West Ham, they'd still gave you beating. Things like that didn't give you the feeling that you had any identity with the local area where you grew up. In fact you felt alienated. So when I was 8, and looking around for a team to support, West Ham was not a choice. Supporting a team as far removed from them was what I was going to do.

I remember playing with football cards with a mate, and we were both deciding on which team to support. He mentioned that this team called Liverpool were quite good. "OK I thought, I don't know anything about them, but that's going to be my team. But then as the weeks and months went by, I started finding out more about this team, and the more I found out the more I fell in love. OK, winning things helped, but it was the history, the passion of the supporters, and the attractive football that they played. I loved the manager Bob Paisley - he was everything I wanted to be - understated, had humility, did the talking on the pitch and never gobbed off. Liverpool were a family club, and kept those ideals despite being being huge in size. But what eventually did it for me was finding out YNWA was Liverpool's song. Back in the 70's most football grounds sang that song, and I loved it. But later when I found out that it was Liverpool's own song, then ...well, it was as if me and Liverpool were meant to be.

Recently I was walking past some guy selling scarfs outside the Anfield Road end. I had made a 150 mile journey to be there, spent a lot of money, had to get baby sitting arrangement for the kids, get a special pass from the Mrs, and organise leave from work to be there. I asked myself "How did I get here?". I had no connections with Liverpool, no relatives, no nothing." And then I remembered back to the football playing cards in the school playground. It's amazing how small decisions have live long repercussions.

I too am asian and live about 10 minutes away from Upton Park. Been into football since the 94 WC. Started supporting LFC the following season when Robbie Fowler scored a hat trick against Arsenal at Anfield in 4 and a half minutes.

Could have easily supported Man Utd as most of my mates at school did. But because of LFCs  history, passion, fans, players and YNWA I decided LFC was the club for me.

[redchiz]

But because of LFCs  history, passion, fans, players and YNWA I decided LFC was the club for me.

We have a winner! 

[wadeywestderby1983]

I dont like the article. I think the reader is trying to justify his own support rather than offer an unbiased journalistic view.

I think he has his own agenda with this. You dont get Norwegians for example justifying their support like this, he shouldnt cast Liverpool as especially friendly towards any religion or any race.

In my opinion anyone is welcome(even wools), as long as you know our history and roots, have a clue about football and show some respect to the people and the city, not just when your here but when you go home as well. I know a few non-scouse life long, die hard reds who join in with their other non scouse mates for a bit of scouse bashing.

[navin]

Hi I'm from Malaysia (Asia). I don't know exactly how I ended up supporting this club but I remember during a time where dominance switch to Man Utd, I just hate the Man Utd. They keep on winning and winning. I choose Liverpool as that time I know they are their closest rivals. Then I explore abt Liverpool and that's my 1st love. I'm supporting this club since then.

Is there any issue for Muslim or Asians cannot support LFC?

[WalkOn]

It all depends on when you started watching/following football.

70's 80's ----- LFC

85-86....just your luck that you are supporting  Everton right now 

90's --- Manu

2000...the roman Mercenaries

[Ken-Obi]

Man USA fans began to mushroom in the 90s when their dominance er... dominated world football, coinciding with multimillion Premier League Ł deals to broadcast the competition to the world. I won't be surprised if their allegiance began then especially if you look at the 70s and 80s for Liverpool.

Always told my Man USA friends, "Whether you're a fan or not, that will be put to test when you win nothing". Already, one had already 'lost interest' after Chelsea emerged as the new force in the Premiership followed by Liverpool's Instabul-esque adventure.

*cough* I had to educate him about Manchester United's history and *cough* honours.

Surprisingly, I began supporting Liverpool at the age of nine after watching us lose to Wimbledon in the FA Cup finals - soft spot for losers

[Angelius]

The article frustrates me. He seems to be justifying his non-scouse status of supporting Liverpool.

Being an Indian in the States who started supporting Liverpool in the early 90's when I watched Fowler and Barnes play (Interestingly, we lost the first game I watched). As I grew older, I read about Heysel and Hillsborough and Anfield and everything connected to the football club. This is was a club I totally identified with. Compound this with my brother going to Liverpool to study (Hope University, have any of you locals heard of it?), and I feel that the club and I were meant for each other.

But this article made me sad because it made me feel that I would never be a true supporter of Liverpool because I am not scouse. And all this when I am desperately saving money to make my pilgrimage to Anfield. Oh well..

[navin]

Ok guys I think rather than discussing about the topic how about...

How scouser feel about their team (LFC) being supported by non-scouser?
Are you welcome us?
Proud of us when you see people from other end of the world come to Anfield?
Being friendly towards us when you find us in the street wearing LFC shirt?

We need your opinion!

[jambutty]

Haven't seen anything that refers to the thousands (millions?) of seamen from all Asian ports that would have spent time in Liverpool and taken souvenirs and stories of our prowess home & thereby planted our seed overseas.

[Jin]

We need your opinion!

Do we really? Being a chinese red, i can't honestly say i give a shit what other people think of me. I know my history, i know the traditions, i support my team through thick and thin and i know ill be here no matter what.

[rob76]

I can see this thread spiralling downwards.....quickly

[IrishDave]

I dont like the article. I think the reader is trying to justify his own support rather than offer an unbiased journalistic view.

I think he has his own agenda with this. You dont get Norwegians for example justifying their support like this, he shouldnt cast Liverpool as especially friendly towards any religion or any race.

Yeah, I was surprised it ended up on the front page of the official site, it just seems to be one guy trying to associate himself closely with the club because he himself feels he has to, and dragging an entire race/religion along with him when he doesn't seem to have any hard facts to back it up.

I appreciate what he is trying to do, I just don't agree.

[MalRed]

Do we really? Being a chinese red, i can't honestly say i give a shit what other people think of me. I know my history, i know the traditions, i support my team through thick and thin and i know ill be here no matter what.

Hit it on the nail really. I am a Malaysian of Chinese descent. Been supporting Liverpool FC since the 80s and really don't care what others may think.

For me it's Liverpool FC. Period.

[Rox]

I lived in Leicester for over 27 years, which has a very large Asian and Muslim community - the predominance of football shirts seen around were Man U, and then toward the end of the 90's Arsenal.

I would say that for every 10 Man U shirts worn, you would see 5 Arsenal shirts and just 1 Liverpool shirt.

You can't paint a broad opinion upon whom a race or religion would support.  Every person is  an individual no matter their race, colour or creed.

[vicgill]

Anyone who loves Liverpool FC is ok with me, it shows they have taste, desire, passion, sense of humour and the bollocks to stick in there when the going gets tough....not a litarary sumation of the above article but it works for me

[hbk]

i could feel many liverpool fans not only in my college but also in the streets.... Many wear liverpool jerseys...  One has to accept that a club is famous because of its performance on the field and the history it has.  Proud to be a liverpool fan.

look, just because people wear liverpool jerseys it doesn't make them a "fan" anyone can just put on a liverpool jersey one day and call themself a fan. that aside its also a well known fact in liverpool that liverpool fans especially those of us whom are scouse and support there local club don't wear colours!

[hoonin]

that aside its also a well known fact in liverpool that liverpool fans especially those of us whom are scouse and support there local club don't wear colours!

Its not fact at all, you just made that up. I know loads of dyed in the wool ('scuse the pun) Liverpudlians who were colours to home games.

[zigackly]

that aside its also a well known fact in liverpool that liverpool fans especially those of us whom are scouse and support there local club don't wear colours!

*cough* bullshit

[jward85]

*cough* bullshit

Hows it bullshit lad? Its a fact that a majority of Liverpool fans don't wear colours especially at away games, end of. That can't be argued its a fact. Yes, plenty of Scouse fans do wear colours, can't deny that, but as a generalisation the original statement is true, a majority of Scouse Liverpool fans on away days don't wear colours. Thats not bullshit thats true.

[zigackly]

Hows it bullshit lad? Its a fact that a majority of Liverpool fans don't wear colours especially at away games, end of. That can't be argued its a fact. Yes, plenty of Scouse fans do wear colours, can't deny that, but as a generalisation the original statement is true, a majority of Scouse Liverpool fans on away days don't wear colours. Thats not bullshit thats true.

Aye well if he'd used the word majority or said away days he'd be spot on, but as a generalisation the original statement is bullshit.

[FitRobbie]

Who really gives a shit. Leave religion and race out.

 

[hbk]

*cough* bullshit

ever been to a game in ur life mate, at least the other two guys had a point u just sound like a tosser!!!

[zigackly]

ever been to a game in ur life mate, at least the other two guys had a point u just sound like a tosser!!!

No you're right I've never been

[FitRobbie]

Barnes & Carra, what more could a girl dream of?

Me thinks you get up Jamies mixed up? Me hate mixed up Jamies....

[hbk]

No you're right I've never been

thought as much!

[zigackly]

thought as much!

I was going to Anfield before you were born soft shite.

[teji]

generally i thought it was a crap article. if it was call "why i support LFC" then fair enough. the whole article was about how he came to support the reds. something like today's article by oliver kay on carra is much more appropriate. he's written it from his point of view and the title genralised too much. cant believe i'm wasting time even referring to it but the article was pointless. more of an article for a forum rather than .tv

[WaltonRed]

Aye well if he'd used the word majority or said away days he'd be spot on, but as a generalisation the original statement is bullshit.

I think he is right.  i would say a much higher of Scouse away support dont wear colours, than non-Scouse away support.  Have never done a survey but if you look at the coaches when they park at an away game. On a typical coach that came from Liverpool, 2/3 on average wont be wearing colours (bar an occasional badge or HJC sticker).  on a coach from anotehr part of the country, 2/3 will be wearing Liverpool colours or scarfs etc.

I am fairly sure that anyone who travels to lots of aways will agree.

personally I wear colours for semis and finals only. The rest of the time - never.  Not sure why, probably the result of far too many hairy moments at Euston in the 70s and early 80s.

[hbk]

I was going to Anfield before you were born soft shite.

yeah my dad was brickin ur coach on the way in, they even had to put a message in the program would the scouse liverpool fans please stop bricking the OOT supporters club coaches----- FACT!!!

[WaltonRed]

yeah my dad was brickin ur coach on the way in, they even had to put a message in the program would the scouse liverpool fans please stop bricking the OOT supporters club coaches----- FACT!!!

tis true.  years ago there used to be gangs waiting for the out of towners at the car park.  At first it was assumed they had mistaken them for the oppposition fans but then people began to have second thoughts.  I have never heard definitively one way or another, but I have met a fair few OOTers who have told me tales of kickings administered by scousers at Anfield or Lime Street.

I am not a great fan of most OOTers personally, but you have to give creidt to those OOTers who got a hiding in Liverpool for being non-scouse and then continued to come and support our side.  Fair play to them.

[hbk]

tis true.  years ago there used to be gangs waiting for the out of towners at the car park.  At first it was assumed they had mistaken them for the oppposition fans but then people began to have second thoughts.  I have never heard definitively one way or another, but I have met a fair few OOTers who have told me tales of kickings administered by scousers at Anfield or Lime Street.

I am not a great fan of most OOTers personally, but you have to give creidt to those OOTers who got a hiding in Liverpool for being non-scouse and then continued to come and support our side.  Fair play to them.

fair point

[eurochamps05]

Do many asian fans come to Anfield?