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Author Topic: Just in case  (Read 1471 times)

Offline john_mac

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Just in case
« on: February 11, 2003, 09:54:37 AM »
anyone was forgetting what it means to be red, and what makes us different from fans of other teams- take a look at this photo, and particularly the crowd rather than the great man.

Remember that this was taken after a defeat which confirmed 5 trophy-less seasons for the reds.

People are quick to say that you cannot compare our manager to the great managers of the past, can we compare ourselves to these great Liverpool fans of the past, I think not!
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Offline KFC

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Re:Just in case
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2003, 10:00:58 AM »
What was the occasion?  It seems to me people were on the streets but what were they celebrating then?
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Offline john_mac

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Re:Just in case
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2003, 11:10:40 AM »
Celebrating the fact that we were the greatest football fans on earth, and the rest of the world knew it.
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Offline Barrettski

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Re:Just in case
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2003, 12:28:36 PM »
Great post... this is 1971, on the steps of St George's Hall.  
It's copyright to Steve Hale who said this:

Quote
I think more people know about this picture than I do. It's perhaps my most famous shot. It was taken at the homecoming after the 1971 FA Cup Final and I was amazed at the number of fans who turned out to welcome the team. I had not long started my career then. I positioned myself at the end of the group of photographers, many of whom were old hacks. They were all shouting 'Bill over here', and that type of thing, but I shouted 'Mr Shankly' because being so young at the time I would never have dreamt of calling him by his first name, I had more respect than that. Anyway, on hearing my shout he turned and looked straight at me with this terrific pose and I got the pic you're looking at now. It's the fifth in a row of eight that I shot and definitely one of my favourites.

We had just lost the FA Cup Final to Arsenal... who had completed a famous double. We had also been dumped out of the Inter City Fairs Cup in the semis. We'd won fuck all for five years.

But those people still knew how to support a team.
And a manager.

This picture has been my screensaver for ages now.
Laptop, PC and phone.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2003, 12:30:32 PM by Barrettski »
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Offline AS

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Re:Just in case
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2003, 12:44:41 PM »
Crackin' picture. Wonder what he would think of Houllier's tactics these days ? Play narrow, sit deep, play owen on his own up front, when you're 2-1 down take off a striker and bring on a defender... the list goes on.

I moved to Wallasey from Blackburn 12 years ago and love the place (still a Rover though)and the discussions I've had with Liverpool fans all echo the same thing - why don't we chase the opposition down like we did in the old days ?

Did anyone watch the Newcastle v Arsenal game on Sunday, shouldn't that be the style played by Liverpool ? High tempo and moving forward ? Not that "sit deep and hang on for a point" style that must frustrate the season ticket holders amongst you. It's no secret that when Gerard was in Hospital and Phil Thompson was in charge you couldn't stop winning, can't see you winning the league with your current manager.

Sorry lads, just my two penneth. I'd love to see you lot win the league so you could join the ones who have already won it  (like US !!!)
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Offline Paul

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Re:Just in case
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2003, 12:47:50 PM »
Quote from: AS on February 11, 2003, 12:44:41 PM
Not that "sit deep and hang on for a point" style that must frustrate the season ticket holders amongst you.

Doesnt just frustrate the ST holders mate
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Offline AS

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Re:Just in case
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2003, 01:01:09 PM »
I suppose it's unusual to have a Blackburn fan on here, and I didn't post to cause trouble or anything (Mottman's always on our site).

I just sympathise when I see the brother in law hold his head in his hands at some of the tactics employed by your Gallic Gaffer.

If it's any consolation we're crap at the moment, why we ever took on Dwight Yorke is a mystery, Cole plays better when he's not there - remember when he scored against you from 40 yards ??!!

Anyway, enjoy your day out in Cardiff, and if you win, the 'current holders' will happy to see it go to Anfield.

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Offline john_mac

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Re:Just in case
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2003, 01:01:25 PM »
The whole point is that fans don't have to be miserable coz things are not going great. Just look at the faces of the kids behind Shanks, imagine if we had won!

These are Liverpool fans before we'd won European Cup's, before we'd even won the UEFA (or fairs). This was before Shanks had clinched our ninth title, and had now gone five years without a trophy.

These fans had faith, they knew they had the right manager and that he would deliver. The fans nowadays could not hold a candle to them, they were disappointed with a fifth consecutive year without a trophy but turned up in hundreds of thousands to welcome their defeated hero's home, today's lot get on the case if we haven't scored in five minutes! These were football fans that had a desire for their team to do well and rejoiced when they did. Today's lot are far happier in defeat, when they can say "I told you so".

For the record, the miserable bastards were moaning when Thommo was temporarily in charge, and Thommo would be the first to admit that he was merely doing what he thought Gerard would do, the loyal 1st Lieutenant that he is.

This is what made Liverpool fans different from the rest, this is why we were the greatest fans in the world, not like the moaning bastards who demand more than they are willing to give, on every trip to anfield these days.

Most of these people could not get into Anfield every week and opportunities like this were their only opportunities to see their heroes. Most of the people who sit on the McNasty's Kop these days would not understand this type of loyalty, they would rather barrck than support their team.

This is Anfield- at least it used to be!
« Last Edit: February 11, 2003, 01:05:44 PM by john_mac »
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Offline AS

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Re:Just in case
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2003, 01:11:15 PM »
Fair comment, but my guess is that had the people forked out hundreds of pounds for a season ticket they would expect to be entertained.

We're all loyal to our clubs but sometimes the barracking reminds the 'stars' that they earn more in a week than some of us do in a year.

As for not moaning but displaying some sort of blind loyalty, were you still happy when you went 2 down to ten man, 1st division Palace ?

Football's an expensive addiction, it's only fair that you expect value. Look at the money Kidd spent, and took us down.
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Offline ttnbd

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Re:Just in case
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2003, 01:26:39 PM »
Excellently put John.

All these people are saying "Shankly will be turning in his grave at the way we are playing"  BUT I think he would be kicking up more of a fuss at the way the supporters are acting in the clubs time of need.
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Offline john_mac

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Re:Just in case
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2003, 01:28:06 PM »
As I said mate that's what made Liverpool fans different from the rest.

Blind loyalty, yes no problem. I am blind in my support for the team. Being blindly loyal does not mean that you have to blind optimism. If loyalty to a football team was based on logical decisions nobody would ever go.

You will rarely get "value" out of football, and clubs will rarely be as loyal to the fans as the fans are to them.

Liverpool fans now, they are just the same as the rest. The minute you start worrying about what "stars" earn you may as well pack in. They said it about Alun Evans, they said it about Kevin Keegan, they said it about John Barnes, in days gone by.

People ask why is the Kop different for some games? Its not the Kop that's different, thats just bricks n mortar, it's the people in it, and the attitude of those people that are different. In the era of this photograph things were different, Anfield was more than a place, Liverpool supporters were better than supporters of other clubs.

Shanks said that bringing the cup to Liverpool was the greatest day of his life, he did it for the people of Liverpool, for the city of Liverpool and for the Liverpool fans.

Barracking and moaning as it occurs today, was not a concept that was close to the people in this photograph. The had just lost the FA Cup final, yet there they stood in appreciation of their team, their manager. It is a concept that would appear alien in this day and age amongst the fickle crowd who like to call themselves football fans, sadly that is as true of Liverpool fans as anybody else.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2003, 01:31:48 PM by john_mac »
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Offline Barrettski

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Re:Just in case
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2003, 02:16:29 PM »
Quote from: AS on February 11, 2003, 01:11:15 PM
Fair comment, but my guess is that had the people forked out hundreds of pounds for a season ticket they would expect to be entertained.

Welcome AS... but I have to disagree massively with comments like this. Entertainment and free flowing football (Forest 5-0) is nice, but it's not purely about entertainment.  If it were we'd all be basketball fans or something - there's a basket, ooh there's another one... or worse, we'd have a big screen, a drummer and play music when we scored.

If I was expecting entertainment every week I'd have bought Championship Manager and fucked off a long time ago.  No, I go to Anfield and expect something special to stir inside of me... and not the curry from the night before either.
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Offline AS

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Re:Just in case
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2003, 02:35:27 PM »
Sorry mate, I didn't mean entertainment of that kind, god knows we have too many Yank influences in our other sports, bloody cheerleaders and fireworks.

I was trying to comment on Houllier's tactics given the amount of money the crowd spend every week. Would you be entertained watching exciting free flowing attacking football ? I think you would. The narrow defensive game has unfortunately labelled you 'boring' Liverpool.

Even the chants have sunk into depressing durges;
"Li-ver-pool, Li-ver-pool" and is it "allez allez - Gerard Houllier"

Liverpool used to be famous for exciting footie and ferocious witty chanting from the fans, now it seems the team are nodding off and the crowd are singing the lullabies.

(what about chanting tarmac to John Barnes 'cause he reminded you of a black highway ?!!)
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Offline john_mac

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Re:Just in case
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2003, 02:40:25 PM »
(what about chanting tarmac to John Barnes 'cause he reminded you of a black highway ?!!)

What about it?

I never heard it
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Offline Barrettski

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Re:Just in case
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2003, 03:02:51 PM »
Quote from: AS on February 11, 2003, 02:35:27 PM
I was trying to comment on Houllier's tactics given the amount of money the crowd spend every week. Would you be entertained watching exciting free flowing attacking football ? I think you would. The narrow defensive game has unfortunately labelled you 'boring' Liverpool.

I think the insinuation that Houllier ultimate goal is to play negatively is a poor one... and makes your comment sound like the sensationalist durge that the media is spouting at the moment.

Almost every footballing dynasty has been built on solid foundations. Pallister-Bruce Adams-Keown Hansen-Lawro etc etc. The fact is that your manager left us in such a disasterous free fall that Ged had a mamoth job to do. To fix it all at once would have been impossible or expensive (a bientot O'Leary). So to fix our defensive frailties was priority one, priority two (creation and flair) is proving somewhat more difficult.

"Narrow" is another Andy-Grayism. If Diouf left the confines of the wing against Middlesborough then it was only to run at people inside. Owen went wide in the same way Henry does - albeit to face five defenders each time. Riise overlapped and Carra (bless him) tried his best to do babbel impressions too. "Width" is a big smelly media bandwagon, don't leave this site whiffing of it.

Quote
Liverpool used to be famous for exciting footie and ferocious witty chanting from the fans, now it seems the team are nodding off and the crowd are singing the lullabies.

Probably fair comment - and true ever since the Taylor report was acted upon. Few home crowds produce that kind of spontaneity these days... and when we came to yours last we were still practising "Fields of Anfield Road" and telling Souness what a gobshite he is (different can of worms there).

Quote
(what about chanting tarmac to John Barnes 'cause he reminded you of a black highway ?!!)

Don't remember that one either... John had a couple of off the wall songs though.
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Offline Olly

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Re:Just in case
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2003, 03:05:47 PM »
Brilliant John. You said everything that a lot of us have been thinking this season. Some of our "fans" this season have got right on my tits. We have no right to win everything in sight, and just because we are not is not an excuse for people to moan louder than they can sing. Some of us have to realise that when we start backing the team fully, then we may start to see results, and that if we don't our love shouldn't waiver one bit.
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Online mercury

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Re:Just in case
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2003, 04:10:40 PM »
Mr/Ms AS.  Yes, our defence has been our best foil in the past few seasons. No, we are not quite there yet in our attacking.   But I see us as a team in transition and will eventually learn the right balance.  And to be honest, the best entertainment we could have is winning. No, sadly, it's not happened enough this season.  Yes, this year has been a setback - but only when we put it in the context of the past three seasons - when we progressed from a nearly spot for Champion League - to the treble season - to second of the league with a tally of 80 points (enough to win most seasons but for the great display of Arsenal).  This means we've to work doubly hard to land the title.  

Overall, I think GH has done more than a decent job and put us back on the map.  And we are lucky to have him.  No, we can never guarantee he'll bring us the title until the day he does.  But we can give him our 100% support - which is what this thread is all about.

I can only say that REDS' support extend far and away (at the very least a handful of regulars of this site live and -someone like myself born - overseas).  They'll - We'll Never Walk Alone.
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Offline AS

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Re:Just in case
« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2003, 04:47:23 PM »
Good for you mate, wasn't trying to be provocative, I was just repeating what I hear in the pub in Wallasey on a Sunday night.

Oh it's Mr AS ( or adopted scouser on our board www.brfcs.com )
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Offline Old-Scallywag

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Re:Just in case
« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2003, 05:01:38 PM »
John
I guess in those day's we had more 'supporters' and less 'customers'  :'(
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Offline Adam

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Re:Just in case
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2003, 05:15:48 PM »
Football has changed
Fans have changed

Got that pic on me wall on a postcard style print :)
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Offline ttnbd

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Re:Just in case
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2003, 05:44:43 PM »
Any1 got that Pic in a 1024x768 wallpaper so I can have it on me desktop?
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So all say thanks to the Shanks

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Offline Jonathan Hall ☆☆☆☆☆

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Re:Just in case
« Reply #21 on: February 11, 2003, 06:42:52 PM »
Is Motty on commision per supporter he brings here.

 ;)
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Offline Roper

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Re:Just in case
« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2003, 08:23:27 PM »
Absolutely superb John, Brilliant post.

What i think people also forget is that by slagging the players, management and club when times are bad, is only broadening the divide for all of us when times are good and successful.

The players and management won't be doing it "for the fans" as in Shankly's day. The will remember the fickle shower that booed and jeared them when they needed them most!

So not only are these dickheads spoiling it for us now, but will also spoil it for the future with current actions!!!  >:(

Roper
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Offline HoullierGirl

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Re:Just in case
« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2003, 08:34:11 PM »
Quote from: Tim on February 11, 2003, 01:26:39 PM
All these people are saying "Shankly will be turning in his grave at the way we are playing"  BUT I think he would be kicking up more of a fuss at the way the supporters are acting in the clubs time of need.

Couldn't agree more Tim
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Offline Guz-kop

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Re:Just in case
« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2003, 08:43:54 PM »
Alrite fellas, just read this whole thread, must say, has been a fantastic read :)

Cheers :D
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Offline fattony

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Re:Just in case
« Reply #25 on: February 11, 2003, 08:52:47 PM »
Great thread. This cuts through all the shit thats flyin about at the minute and gets straight to the point.

YNWA
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Offline Hinesy

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Re:Just in case
« Reply #26 on: February 11, 2003, 10:08:25 PM »
fantastic to see that picture again
i still think the majority of fans have faith,its just a lot of newer fans don't understand the difference between being a liverpool fan, and one of other football team.
No offence to other die hard fans...

and before old fans comment, I too get very frustrated at our play, I just don't believe its right to demand the manager's head...
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Offline dave70

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Re:Just in case
« Reply #27 on: February 11, 2003, 10:31:20 PM »
There is another group of fans who are a credit to their club, much like the fans in the photo, the fans of Newcastle United.  Week-in week-out, year after year, they turn up in their thousands to worship a team that hasn't won a thing for decades.  The players are regarded as "gods".  When Shearer was substituted on Sunday, he left the field being hailed as a messiah.  This is in spite of the fact that even Teddy Sheringham has won more than he has or ever will.

Being bored with our style of play, or frustrated with our limited success over the past decade or so is understandable.  However, I think some of the boo-boys in the crowd could learn a thing or two form the Toon Army.

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Offline ttnbd

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Re:Just in case
« Reply #28 on: February 11, 2003, 10:40:43 PM »
Quote from: dave70 on February 11, 2003, 10:31:20 PM
There is another group of fans who are a credit to their club, much like the fans in the photo, the fans of Newcastle United.  Week-in week-out, year after year, they turn up in their thousands to worship a team that hasn't won a thing for decades.

Sorry but on the whole that is bollocks.  They didn't turn up in their thousands when they languished in division 1 and 2 10 to 15 years ago.
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So all say thanks to the Shanks

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Offline Mottman

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Re:Just in case
« Reply #29 on: February 11, 2003, 10:57:55 PM »
Well in John_Mac,

What a cracking photo, I really feel full of pride looking at it again.

I was a young urchin near the front that Sunday in 1971, with me mates.

Blind faith, yes thats me, whatever happens I keep the faith.

One day I'll write you a story about the "special" flag we used to have.  It said "Some say GOD, we say SHANKLY".

Hello AS, welcome to RAWK. ;)
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Offline dave70

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Re:Just in case
« Reply #30 on: February 11, 2003, 11:48:00 PM »
Quote from: Tim on February 11, 2003, 10:40:43 PM
Sorry but on the whole that is bollocks.  They didn't turn up in their thousands when they languished in division 1 and 2 10 to 15 years ago.

Amongst my programme collection, I have a Newcastle programme from the 1993 season and they were getting gates of 29000+ in Division One.  I also have a Blackburn Rovers progamme from 1986 - average attendance 8700.  Amazingly, after Rovers won the Premiership in 1995, there were at least ten thousand people walking around Lancaster (where I was living at the time) who had been "watching them for years"!

I am not saying that Newcastle is a better supported club than us.  My point is that the boo-boys who have recently been displaying their feelings at Anfield really would really have something to moan about if they watched Newcastle.  Do these people think we have a divine right to win everything, every year?  Rather than boo, please stay at home.
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Re:Just in case
« Reply #31 on: February 12, 2003, 12:02:07 AM »
That's a great pic there John.  Just looking at the faces of the fans, you can see the admiration, and respect that they had for Shanks.  They just look totally in awe of him.

I'm one of the believers, I have blind faith in my club.  I get frustrated with the comments that are voiced in the press/media about our style of play, but I just have to carry on, and hope that there's summat better round the corner for us.  Which I'm sure there is.
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Offline ttnbd

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Re:Just in case
« Reply #32 on: February 12, 2003, 07:43:39 AM »
Quote from: dave70 on February 11, 2003, 11:48:00 PM
Amongst my programme collection, I have a Newcastle programme from the 1993 season and they were getting gates of 29000+ in Division One.  

At the time Newcastle were at the top of division 1 pushing strongly for the premiership.  Bradford had an upturn in attendances for their push to the premiership but doesn't mean they get those same attendances now.  The Bradford Bulls (Rugby League team) get a higher attendance than city.
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So all say thanks to the Shanks

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Offline Stevo

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Re:Just in case
« Reply #33 on: February 12, 2003, 06:29:04 PM »
Newcastles fans only started to turn up in 1993.

Before that they were non-exsistent
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Offline Curly Tom

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Re:Just in case
« Reply #34 on: February 16, 2003, 12:09:31 PM »
*gulp*

The passion of our support is beyonf belief sometimes..... just such a shame that it is being diluted.  :'(
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Offline ecmdtan

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Re:Just in case
« Reply #35 on: February 16, 2003, 06:23:08 PM »
Excellent thread!!

In terms of support for their club, Man City fans have my respect for their loyalty.  A real pity, I can't say the same for liverpool fans these days.
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On April 15th, 89.........What should have been a joyous time...........Ninety six friends, we all shall miss.........And all the Kopites want justice...................JUSTICE!!!
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