Author Topic: RAWK Round Table LFC 3-2 MCFC  (Read 31738 times)

Offline Kashinoda

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 3-2 MCFC
« Reply #80 on: April 15, 2014, 05:29:37 pm »
One of the highlights in the first half was Coutinho's dogged nature, he was in the faces of City players and winning tackles left right and centre.

This part of his game wasn't present in the second half, as City took the game to us big time. However it's this side of his game which ultimately leads to his goal. Before he spreads a lovely cross field ball to Sterling he does extremely well to win the ball down the left flank, then he's there to pounce when needed. Didn't notice it until I rematched today but it was amazing to see such a fight when we looked like the game could turn full 180 on us.

I think Rodgers deserves massive credit for making our players very versatile, Sterling and Coutinho have so many dimensions to them now and I'm not sure that would have happened with another manager.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2014, 05:31:17 pm by Kashinoda »
:D

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 3-2 MCFC
« Reply #81 on: April 15, 2014, 05:43:29 pm »
I'm interested in this idea of Rodgers having a team full of converted wingers...

Maybe this is to do with technique?  Wingers have usually had the best technique of British players, they also tend to be smaller so end up getting stuck on the wing.  Imagine this happening with Xavi and iniesta! Sometimes they have played wide but they play centrally mostly.

It brings home this idea of Rodgers belief that British players have technique which is just as good as their Iberian counterparts. They do, but it's been poorly coached and dismissed in favour of physicality (may I present the first exhibit, Mr R Hodgson!).

Technique and pace, the two characteristics that have definied us this season, using talented players where they can do the most damage not putting them on the peripheries of the team.

I think (hope maybe, because British coaching is so bloody awful.  See exhibit B mr T Sherwood) that we are seeing the dawn of a new British style if play, it borrows from the old but blends it with a belief that talent wins out.
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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 3-2 MCFC
« Reply #82 on: April 15, 2014, 05:50:16 pm »
I'm interested in this idea of Rodgers having a team full of converted wingers...

Christ, imagine a team full of Aaron Lennons.  ;D

The number 10 role seems to be slightly redefined now - with the smaller, technical players with a bit of pace. So actually, use of technical wingers (not just with pace, but also a brain) in a number 10 spot, is a good shout.
YNWA.

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 3-2 MCFC
« Reply #83 on: April 15, 2014, 05:52:45 pm »
Christ, imagine a team full of Aaron Lennons.  ;D

The number 10 role seems to be slightly redefined now - with the smaller, technical players with a bit of pace. So actually, use of technical wingers (not just with pace, but also a brain) in a number 10 spot, is a good shout.
Maybe if Aaron Lennon were better coached though?  Has he every really been given anything to do but run and cross.

Liverpool aside, Rodgers is exciting as he shows that British coaches can match the technicality of their European counterparts once again.  There is hope for these isles once more.
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“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
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Offline Prof

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 3-2 MCFC
« Reply #84 on: April 15, 2014, 06:00:19 pm »
There are some belting posts in this thread.  Thanks everyone.  I'm currently struggling to find time to contribute much, but I wanted to make reference to the biggest influence on the game.

James Milner.

I've always rated him, and can't understand how he doesn't play more for them.  We really struggled to cope with his movement.  That depth in quality is our next area to develop, particularly with the increase in fixtures next season.

A few months ago I wrote in a round table about the midfield balance.  I subscribed to the view (which I've written extensively about before) that control of the midfield is paramount to controlling the pitch and game.  Coutinho and Sterling in the same midfield behind two strikers didn't seem strong enough to me.

I was so wrong.

They control the pitch through their technical ability and mentality under pressure.  They dribble their way out of so many situations, it makes the opposition constantly think about the space behind them.  The culture of safety in risk taking is the biggest impact of Rodgers' approach.

Offline Kashinoda

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 3-2 MCFC
« Reply #85 on: April 15, 2014, 06:02:21 pm »
I'm interested in this idea of Rodgers having a team full of converted wingers...

Maybe this is to do with technique?  Wingers have usually had the best technique of British players, they also tend to be smaller so end up getting stuck on the wing.  Imagine this happening with Xavi and iniesta! Sometimes they have played wide but they play centrally mostly.

It brings home this idea of Rodgers belief that British players have technique which is just as good as their Iberian counterparts. They do, but it's been poorly coached and dismissed in favour of physicality (may I present the first exhibit, Mr R Hodgson!).

Technique and pace, the two characteristics that have definied us this season, using talented players where they can do the most damage not putting them on the peripheries of the team.

I think (hope maybe, because British coaching is so bloody awful.  See exhibit B mr T Sherwood) that we are seeing the dawn of a new British style if play, it borrows from the old but blends it with a belief that talent wins out.

Wingers are wasted on the wing ;)

Can't see the reasons for the out and out winger in my head after how we've played recently, after all these years of us clamouring for a world class left or right winger. Mad really.

I honestly think Brendan just tells the lads to give it a go in the middle, and is patient with the progress. Perhaps it's more complicated than that.
:D

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 3-2 MCFC
« Reply #86 on: April 15, 2014, 06:05:55 pm »
I am still struggling with the argument that MCFC's 2nd half dominance on the flanks was down to our diamond formation.

Did we not play the same formation in the 1st half? Did we do anything differently in the first half with the same formation? Was it a matter of personnel change that led to MCFC finally taking advantage of the diamond formation and its inherent weakness? Did our players tire and stopped executing?

I know we won the match and all, and I am obviously very happy about that, but still . . .
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Offline Kashinoda

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 3-2 MCFC
« Reply #87 on: April 15, 2014, 06:07:39 pm »
I am still struggling with the argument that MCFC's 2nd half dominance on the flanks was down to our diamond formation.

Did we not play the same formation in the 1st half? Did we do anything differently in the first half with the same formation? Was it a matter of personnel change that led to MCFC finally taking advantage of the diamond formation and its inherent weakness? Did our players tire and stopped executing?

I know we won the match and all, and I am obviously very happy about that, but still . . .

I think Milner used the space better when he came on and their flank was able to push up.
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Offline redvile

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 3-2 MCFC
« Reply #88 on: April 15, 2014, 06:09:36 pm »
I am still struggling with the argument that MCFC's 2nd half dominance on the flanks was down to our diamond formation.

Did we not play the same formation in the 1st half? Did we do anything differently in the first half with the same formation? Was it a matter of personnel change that led to MCFC finally taking advantage of the diamond formation and its inherent weakness? Did our players tire and stopped executing?

I know we won the match and all, and I am obviously very happy about that, but still . . .

They finally adapted to the diamond and started widening their play. I think their plan from the beginning revolved around Yaya dominating the midfield.

Offline steveeastend

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 3-2 MCFC
« Reply #89 on: April 15, 2014, 06:17:03 pm »
I am still struggling with the argument that MCFC's 2nd half dominance on the flanks was down to our diamond formation.

 .

It was down to our full backs, they have problems with figuring when to stay back in the defending line and keeping it and when to step out and press for winning back the ball early whenever we have periods in a game when our opponents push on. It's not an easy thing to ask of a full back, playing some sort of an additional midfielder/winger while keeping the mind set of a defender, a lot of full backs are either one or the other, Johnson and Flanagan no different here. Rodgers promotes the attacking ones rather than the ones playing it safe and sound at the back..
« Last Edit: April 15, 2014, 06:20:03 pm by steveeastend »
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 3-2 MCFC
« Reply #90 on: April 15, 2014, 06:31:05 pm »
Wingers are wasted on the wing ;)

Can't see the reasons for the out and out winger in my head after how we've played recently, after all these years of us clamouring for a world class left or right winger. Mad really.

I honestly think Brendan just tells the lads to give it a go in the middle, and is patient with the progress. Perhaps it's more complicated than that.
I think that players out wide should be players who can cross the ball really well.

You don't really need to be able to go past players if you have fantastic delivery.

The most effective "winger" I've seen is beckham, and he had no attributes of a traditional
Winger..... Too many wingers are quick, with good technique but aren't great with their delivery... Why play them there then? It's pointless, but they tick the "winger" box for many old style coaches.
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Offline HBAHFH

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 3-2 MCFC
« Reply #91 on: April 15, 2014, 07:00:15 pm »
snip
Egads that was brilliant. Hope to be seeing more of you in round tables.

Offline Grand Chilli

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 3-2 MCFC
« Reply #92 on: April 15, 2014, 07:10:13 pm »
I can understand what the original poster was saying. In some ways, Gerrard's inherent leadership qualities are, and have always been, a constant. But his leadership style does seem to have changed and we can only speculate the reasons behind this. I like to think it has evolved as he has become a less frenetic player (although by no means laconic, just look at the way he charged back in an attempt to block Navas's cross in the first half).
Do you not think a large part of this is simply that for the first time in a long time (possibly forever) he isn't carrying the team, and is surrounded by a group of players he trusts more than ever before? Makes it a lot easier to have a more calm, measured approach...

Offline Timbo's Goals

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 3-2 MCFC
« Reply #93 on: April 15, 2014, 07:30:45 pm »
Sport is fear and sport is joy.

The joy of victory, of vanquishing opponents not by shutting them out, but overwhelming them with thrilling improvisation.
The joy of belief, like a sudden shaft of spring sunlight, instantly warming the heart, pushing aside the memories of countless dismal winters, decades of grumbling hopelessness and wishful thinking.
The joy of belonging, the simple pleasure of sharing a glance with fellow fans, like we’re all in on some gigantic exciting secret.

But it’s a joy haunted by fear....

....Were you ever this anxious playing footy in the park?
Can you remember those gloriously long summer days?
When we just ran, and laughed and played.
Just for the joy of it.
There might be a lesson there somewhere.
I do hope in growing up, I haven’t forgotten it.
Because just imagine the awesome possibilities
Of a life without fear.


Between Sprouts piece in the 'Something Special' thread and this epic ode to joy we're getting a mite spoilt. Wonderful stuff Jaron. And fitting on such a day to read something so profound concerning our unique club

 :)


Mind you, some of the other posts in here aren't half bad either.  ;)

Offline cowtownred

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 3-2 MCFC
« Reply #94 on: April 15, 2014, 07:46:07 pm »
Jarod,

read your piece a few more times...it gets better every time.  Outstanding that mate.  Are you a professional writer?

Those who know how should get that prose/poetry posted in the 'Outstanding posts you may have missed', cos that is a quality piece of writing.

Offline Sangria

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 3-2 MCFC
« Reply #95 on: April 15, 2014, 08:01:56 pm »
That is why we're genuine contenders by the way. Sterling really will be ready next time. I think back to Torres in his pomp at Anfield. Yes, he had Stevie up there operating superbly in the spaces behind him. But Dirk Kuyt and Albert Riera?  They tried but they were admirers of Torres not collaborators. This time it's different. Suarez sets the tone, but players like Sterling, Sturridge and Coutinho can harmonise with him, add stuff, take the game and the argument on. It's a helluva thing to have to defend against.

I think the difference is that the 08-09 lot were specialists, whereas this lot are more all-round, at least in mentality. The 08-09 players were professionals who knew their job and did it well. That was why they were prized as some of the best players in Europe, doing a job that professionals could appreciate. This lot are amateurs, in the root sense of the word. They play football and they play for love of the game, with emphasis on the word play. We see the attack constantly redefining creativity, but there are some less obvious things that I think are more illustrative of the spirit within the team.

Exhibit A: Henderson's passing. Is it passing range that I'm talking about, whatever that means? No, I'm talking about a recent penchant for passing with his laces. Is it a better way of passing in certain circumstances? No, the circumstances I'm thinking of has no better or worse, as he's not under pressure. He just chooses to pass with his laces, poking the ball with his foot. As I don't think he has had such a tendency in the past, and yet he chooses to do that under no pressure, I can only think that he does so because he enjoys doing so. He's watched our South Americans passing and shooting in this manner, and he's been emulating them in practice, and he enjoys doing it.

Exhibit B: Sterling's tackling and harassing. You've talked a lot in the past about Lucas's standing tackling, and how it was a rarity in English football and thus little understood. Nowadays, it seems all our players do it, with Sterling arguably more effective even than Lucas himself at it. It's reasonable to say that there's been a movement within the team/squad to practice this for practical reasons, but Sterling has been particularly enthusiastic at it, starting with Tottenham away when his outstanding wing play was arguably even outshone by his counter-possession work. So much so, that I can only attribute this non-stop harassment work to enjoyment of the process, as much as the results.

There are other examples too, but I'd like to draw them back to our greatest amateur of all, the arch-kid in the playground who is forever and tirelessly trying to redefine the bounds of what is possible. Suarez. He is daft. He wants to win. And not just win, which is the end result, but also the journey of winning, which is the endless push for better. If you can do something well, you can do it better. This drive is fundamental for him, but it's also infectious and addictive to others. Just as Suarez works endlessly to give himself yet more tools undreamed of with which to play the game and play to win, so others see his drive and are attracted to the possibilities he presents, and once they set off on their first step, they find it endlessly rewarding to expand their repertoire and play with it on the big stage. They work their arses off like professionals, but they do it to win, and they do it because they enjoy the greater scope for play that it allows.

I think it'll do Suso and other youngsters good to come back into the squad and not be able to get into the team, but to see how Suarez is inspiring others into elevating their play through hard work, and see the amount of work they'll need to put in to get past Sterling and Coutinho, and equally how rewarding it is when they get to play with the team.
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Offline kasperoff

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 3-2 MCFC
« Reply #96 on: April 15, 2014, 08:08:48 pm »
Here's a question....

We are the set piece kings.....

We have scored more from corners and fee kicks than any side, far more than Stoke or Fat Sam FC.

Can anyone explain this?  It's pretty much the same players doing it as under Rafa and Kenny, so why are we scoring so many?  What is BR doing to make us so successful???

It seems to be down to delivery. Gerrard has been fantastic since Rodgers arrived, and Coutinho has come in and been just as effective. I wouldn't surprise me to hear that they both put a lot of practice into it.

Gerrard hasn't always been this good at corners.
I think the same, can't stand him, but if you could have a £1million pound cheque or steve bruces head hollowed out and filled with pound coins which would you have?

Offline stockdam

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 3-2 MCFC
« Reply #97 on: April 15, 2014, 08:17:11 pm »
I'm going to think back over the last couple of years. At no time do I recall any if our teams being so on top for 45 minutes against a team as strong as City.

City didn't have a bad first half; they were just blown away by our pace, commitment and movement. We could and should have been 3 or 4 up after half an hour.

Yes City did start to look dangerous near the end of the half but they weren't allowed to dominate the way they often do.

Yes they played well in the 2nd half and started to move the ball quickly in dangerous areas. Their 2nd was a but fortunate but overall they deservered to score 2. However I still think they were rather fortunate to be only 2 behind.

Thereafter you would have thought that City would go on to win as they started to push us back. The turning point was
Silva's miss.

We clung in and scored a fantastic winner.

I cannot commit any further as my nerves were shot by then and I was so glad to hear the final whistle. A huge game and a huge result.

Yes there could have been some penalties but I thought that Kompany's double push on Suarez was as blatant as Skrtel's handball.

Last year or before we would have lost this game. I know City may have felt disappointed not to win but on the other hand they could have been 4 down at half time.
#JFT97

Offline Gnurglan

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 3-2 MCFC
« Reply #98 on: April 15, 2014, 08:42:10 pm »
What a game of football! Enjoyed every minute of it. This is what it should be like when two top teams play each other.

Don't think I've ever been as convinced we'd win, as I was with this game. It was our game. Our day. Normally, I've got some doubts, but not for this one. Loved how Rodgers went for the same style of football we've seen so many times. It didn't matter who was on the other side. This game was at Anfield and we decided how the game was to be played. The decision was simple. Our way is to attack. So let's attack! Why change? Let's play to our strengths! And so we could expect SAS to get the goals for us. Sterling and Skrtel? ;D And up stepped Coutinho when we needed it. And Rodgers found a way to change the game when we needed it. Again. Important things. We find solutions. We, as in everyone involved. How about Mignolet's saves? How about Skrtel? Last season, he made that pass that cost us points. Now? He's an attacking threat and he's there to block shots at the back. Or what about Sterling? It's great to see how he's progressed. No hiding there! We can rely on him to make things happen and he's a teenager. And we're talking about a massive game. Doesn't matter. He scored a fine goal and he cleared a ball off the line.

It's simply wonderful, what we're seeing. Positive developments everywhere. Individual progress and team progress.

This was one of the best days of football I've experienced in a long time.


        * * * * * *


"The key isn't the system itself, but how the players adapt on the pitch. It doesn't matter if it's 4-3-3 or 4-4-2, it's the role of the players that counts." Rafa Benitez

Offline Bird Bird Bird The Bird Is The Word

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 3-2 MCFC
« Reply #99 on: April 15, 2014, 09:02:01 pm »
Fantastic posts in here, just to add a few things.

Watching it live, I thought Navas was poor, watching it again and City were playing with 10 men, it's bizarre that such a pacy, tricky winger can lack almost any aggression, he has everything to terrify defenders apart from what is in his head. He doesn't vary his play either, stays very wide and occupies the space that Zabaleta likes to run into.

Milner comes on and he was constantly in the half space between Henderson and Flanagan, watching again it is not surprising they let him go because it's hard to say who should pick him up, he caused confusion in our defense and despite lacking the raw technical and physical ability of Navas, that simple aggression coupled with effective tactics meant he was extremely effective for them.

Apart from that one lapse, I thought Flanagan was very good again in a big game, he has that special mentality that acts as a sort of alchemy for players lacking huge amounts of raw ability, he will be constantly doubted and seen as upgradeable but will prove himself time and time again, no doubt. Another big tackle too, this time on Milner, the marks on Milner's legs read "Flanagan was here".

Sturridge was awful, Sturridge is not an awful player, Sturridge went off with an injury, Sturridge played with an injury in this match and possibly past few matches. Can't think of a more logical answer, he didn't seem himself all game, and he's usually a man possessed against former teams. We might see him rested against Norwich, so he's recovered for Chelsea, he can unleash his unused ire against City to add to his Chelsea ire.

Sterling and Silva acted as the raumdeuters throughout the match, the amount of space the two found was incredible for such a tight match. Praise for one can easily be attributed to the other, the only difference is about 10 years. The way they kept the ball with ease, the way they were at the heart beat of every attack and how the marginal difference in the result rested on their shoulders.

Just to finish off, Coutinho really picks his moment, Fulham away to begin the comeback and the winner against City to put one hand on the cup. Amongst the pandemonium, the quality of the goal was lost on me, watching it back, it was near the 18 yard line, he had to twist his entire body around the ball whilst it was going backwards, bobbling too and in the most pressurised game of the season. Saved. By. The. Bell.

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 3-2 MCFC
« Reply #100 on: April 15, 2014, 09:26:35 pm »

Offline Mighty Zeus

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 3-2 MCFC
« Reply #101 on: April 15, 2014, 09:29:17 pm »
Wingers are wasted on the wing ;)

Can't see the reasons for the out and out winger in my head after how we've played recently, after all these years of us clamouring for a world class left or right winger. Mad really.

Hadn't thought of it like that. An excellent point.

'Width' has become irrelevant. I mean, it's a specific tactical option.
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Offline Jaron

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 3-2 MCFC
« Reply #102 on: April 15, 2014, 09:38:10 pm »
read your piece a few more times...it gets better every time.  Outstanding that mate.  Are you a professional writer?

Those who know how should get that prose/poetry posted in the 'Outstanding posts you may have missed', cos that is a quality piece of writing.

Thanks mate. No, I'm not a professional, just someone who enjoys writing, and who believes in preserving memories in words - because even the most beautiful emotions will eventually fade and be forgotten.

I've put that post on my blog now, if anyone wants to link or share it: http://www.memento.org/2014/04/fear-and-joy.html
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Offline cowtownred

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 3-2 MCFC
« Reply #103 on: April 15, 2014, 10:08:56 pm »
Thanks mate. No, I'm not a professional, just someone who enjoys writing, and who believes in preserving memories in words - because even the most beautiful emotions will eventually fade and be forgotten.

I've put that post on my blog now, if anyone wants to link or share it: http://www.memento.org/2014/04/fear-and-joy.html


I'm quite old, and I don't really know about blogs and so on.

But I hope someone in the know on this wonderful site will bring your writing to a bigger audience, because it deserves to be read widely.

As good as E2K, but in verse.  Thats as good as I can praise.

Offline groove

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 3-2 MCFC
« Reply #104 on: April 15, 2014, 10:24:22 pm »


Done this one before haven't we? But better this time. Skrtel near post as the most aggressive attacker of a set piece in the league: he is much quicker of the mark than his average marker, has a good leap and excellent direction on his headers. He's so perfect for this, no wonder he's on 7 goals now we've been working on them. Coutinho running round to join Sturridge to clean up any flick-ons that aren't on target (how Phil got his goal at Goodison). Sakho looking for any aerial second balls. Suarez making a nuisance of himself in front of the keeper.

But look at Henderson. That's where you know this is a proper set piece with the idea of a near post flick on to attack the back post. He is shoving Zabaletta away from the back post. Removing any chance of a goal-line clearance and any chance of Zab challenging Coutinho if it should fall to him.

Love it.

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 3-2 MCFC
« Reply #105 on: April 15, 2014, 10:49:44 pm »

Apart from that one lapse, I thought Flanagan was very good again in a big game, he has that special mentality that acts as a sort of alchemy for players lacking huge amounts of raw ability, he will be constantly doubted and seen as upgradeable but will prove himself time and time again, no doubt. Another big tackle too, this time on Milner, the marks on Milner's legs read "Flanagan was here".

Sturridge was awful, Sturridge is not an awful player, Sturridge went off with an injury, Sturridge played with an injury in this

As much as I love Flanagan, especially the simplicity and directness with which he contributes to our game going forward, as well as his crunching tackles and aerial battles, I cannot make myself see him as a great defender. He, too often for my taste, still gets his positioning wrong and is too easily dribbled past. He had more than one lapse.

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Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 3-2 MCFC
« Reply #106 on: April 15, 2014, 10:50:39 pm »
Egads that was brilliant. Hope to be seeing more of you in round tables.
It really was, and I hope too to see more from you Jaron. Thank you.

Offline PaisleyPrint

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 3-2 MCFC
« Reply #107 on: April 15, 2014, 11:03:25 pm »
^

That's extremely good mate.

Agree wholeheartedly - exceptional.

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 3-2 MCFC
« Reply #108 on: April 16, 2014, 12:50:09 am »
I am still struggling with the argument that MCFC's 2nd half dominance on the flanks was down to our diamond formation.

Did we not play the same formation in the 1st half? Did we do anything differently in the first half with the same formation? Was it a matter of personnel change that led to MCFC finally taking advantage of the diamond formation and its inherent weakness? Did our players tire and stopped executing?

I know we won the match and all, and I am obviously very happy about that, but still . . .

They put Milner on, who tucked inside, making the central midfield area more man-to-man in terms of coverage. This left Flanagan with Zabaleta to look for, but if he didn't move forward, he had no job to do other than coverage, which requires him to tuck in. This in turn created space outside for Milner to move into, creating a dilemma for Flanagan which eventually led to the pocket of space between Sakho and Flanagan that Milner sprinted into for their first goal (if you watch it again, Gerrard moves over to cover Flanagan's zone, meaning there was no holding mid covering Silva when he made contact with the ball). The mobility of Nasri/Silva also meant that they could overload Johnson, which is how the second goal happened:



When we moved to 4-3-3, we removed that problem for a large part, as we could account for the Nasri/Silva position switch, zonally, while going man-for-man against Fernandinho and Garcia. Coutinho on the left wing also meant Zabaleta was covered, meaning Flanagan could focus on Milner more, meaning we could regain some more control of the game:



So the loss of control was more to do with Milner, on the pure tactical level, nullifying the diamond by moving inside - although there was probably a psychological reason for the loss of control in the end of the first half, together with City's undoubted quality.

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 3-2 MCFC
« Reply #109 on: April 16, 2014, 12:55:35 am »
It really was, and I hope too to see more from you Jaron. Thank you.
A cursory glance at the format made me think I wouldn't like it. Boy was I wrong.

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 3-2 MCFC
« Reply #110 on: April 16, 2014, 01:03:20 am »
Some wonderful contributions to this thread and not just the usual suspects either. Jaron that was something special.

Just a few observations I had, kinda carrying on what others have talked about:
- Set peices: Yes, we seem to have some really good plans in place, but the biggest difference for me is the execution. The delivery for both the two corners in sequence were superb. Get in the place you had in your plan and the attacker can do the rest. Stevie missed when he shouldve scored, but then Skrtel made no mistake after that.

Remember how frustrating our corners when they would hardly beat the first man? We had plans then, and if we executed then they would come off (e.g. the free kick for Agger to score in the 07 CL semi). This shows the work we have done to improve the execution.

- Sterling: The best example of how our coaching philosophy is working. Brendan talked after the Soton game about Sterling being a good footballer rather just an attacker/winger or what ever. Since then he has shown his defensive qualities more and more - no longer does he get pushed off the ball, or give away a foul trying to get the ball back Scrappy Doo style. He now knows how to use his strength, get the interception in, then use his pace and trickery to get away and turn defence into attack.

We've seen similar in Coutinho which shows how our young players are actually improving and progressing as footballing as the season goes on. Thses improvements are not just them getting better in the thinsg they already do well, its adding facets that will make then really top players

- 2nd half: just a minor criticism of Brendan, I think he was just a little slow in responding to City, especially after the first goal. You could see that we were not pressing at all and we were giving them space to play. Obviously getting a sub on quicker would've been hard due to how quickly things developed but maybe a message needed to go out after that first goal, at least to refocus. Once Allen came on I think we sorted this out and contary to what some say, I thought we got back in the game well before our goal, the Silva chance notwithstanding,  it was far more even at that point.

The reason we were able to see the game out was because we had already got some control back, so that has to go down as good work by Brendan.

Forget the Kompany mistake, even forget the great technique by Coutinho to score - look where he was - sniffing around the penalty area lookin for Suarez to get the ball to him from the throwin. This after he was the one to bring it from the halfway line riding the challenge. As it happens Suarez didnotwin the ball but their was just enough panic to induce the mistake and the poacher pounced :)

EDIT: PoP's just explained the tactical reasons for the 2nd half better than I ever could!
« Last Edit: April 16, 2014, 01:06:34 am by Mighty_Red »
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Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 3-2 MCFC
« Reply #111 on: April 16, 2014, 01:15:15 am »
Quote from: Mighty_Red
Obviously getting a sub on quicker would've been hard due to how quickly things developed but maybe a message needed to go out after that first goal, at least to refocus.

Sometimes the message does go out, but players are so focused on the ball and the passage of play that they fail to act on the message. Watch managers go ape when their players sit back for no reason, despite that not being their normal way of playing, and you can see how sometimes it's out of the manager's hands. A sub, or a vocal captain, can change that, of course. Gerrard is a leader, but he's not like Carragher, where the sheer volume of his voice would get the players ten yards up the field if needed.
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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 3-2 MCFC
« Reply #112 on: April 16, 2014, 06:07:46 am »
Sport is fear and sport is joy.

The joy of victory, of vanquishing opponents not by shutting them out, but overwhelming them with thrilling improvisation.
The joy of belief, like a sudden shaft of spring sunlight, instantly warming the heart, pushing aside the memories of countless dismal winters, decades of grumbling hopelessness and wishful thinking.
The joy of belonging, the simple pleasure of sharing a glance with fellow fans, like we’re all in on some gigantic exciting secret.

But it’s a joy haunted by fear.

A fear that at any moment, we might wake up.
A fear that we might find the dream that had brought us such joy, such hope, dissipating from our minds like a morning mist.
A fear that months later, years later, we'll cast our minds back, and struggle to remember that glorious sensation, that golden age when we believed anything was possible.

Liverpool versus Manchester City was a tale of fear and joy.

For the first half hour, joy prevailed.
We were fearless. Flowing.
Playing like carefree kids in the park.
A teenager has the coolest head of all, slotting home, in front of the Kop.
More pressure, roars and gasps, until a bullet header prompts delirium.
How we jumped and bounced and yelled with joy.

Buzzing, we look down from our heady clouds.
And wonder at how high we really are.
And realise what a long way that would be to fall. 

Blue waves begin to threaten, we sense the gusts of a gathering storm.
The buzz of joy becomes a tingle of fear.
How similar they feel, a pulsating throb in our throats.
Close shaves endured, but we stand firm. Just about.

At last, half time.
We blow out our cheeks, and wipe our palms dry.
We nudge those beside us, smile and dare to dream.

When we return to the field, we know it’s out there.
Somewhere. Waiting, lurking.
We hoped our joy would protect us, insulate us.
But fear was stalking us, ready to shock us with its sudden pounce.

Their first goal triggered a cascade of uncertainty and doubt.
Fear does funny things to the limbs, it dizzies the mind.
Once we played like warriors, now we flounder like drunken clowns.
Five minutes of increasing anxiety culminates aptly.
We contrive to scramble the ball into our own net.

Now we look down, and realise what a long, long way it is to fall.
How painful it will be to hit the ground.
When there’s no margin for error, it’s never just a football match.
It becomes a trial of character.
Every mistake could be the one that brings everyone crashing down.
The moment that destroys the dream.

Now it’s not about pressing and diamonds, or holding midfielders.
Or tactical reshuffles and runs between the lines.
It’s about overcoming the fear, the instinct to run and hide.
The basic primal instinct to stay safe.

How do you fight the desire to flee?
Does a dressing room mantra spring to mind?
Or a psychiatrist’s counsel in a Teesside lilt.
That fear can never be dismissed, only mastered.

What if you discovered a magic ring?
What if when you slipped it on your finger, your every fear vanished.
Suddenly, where once were problems, now there are only possibilities.
You stop hesitating, and start being who you want to be.
Wouldn’t that be the most powerful artefact in world?
Just imagine what you could achieve.
Anything.

A moment of bravery. Then everything changed.
A young full-back leaping in to win a header, when he could have stood off.
A Brazilian fighting for the loose ball, earning it with his determination.
A kid from Wembley driving forward, spreading jitters among the men in blue.

Because the funny thing is, fear doesn’t take sides.
Fear stalks all equally.
Perhaps its insidious influence scuffed the ball to the edge of the box.
The Brazilian wasn’t afraid that he’d miss.
Courage enough not to demand another touch.
He trusted himself, and hit it instinctively.
And we lost ourselves in a glorious moment of redemptive bliss.

The game resumes, the ground in ferment.
Our collective rush of joy corroded again by our nagging fear.
This is the time for brave hearts and resolute minds.
Headers are won, desperate blocks are made.
One too recklessly, and we’re a man down.
Fear will do that.

At last, the whistle triggers an explosion of repressed emotion.

This does not fucking slip now!
This does NOT fucking slip.
Listen, listen!
This is gone.
We go to Norwich.
Exactly the same.
We go again.
Come on!

The leader exhorts: be brave once more lads.
Because the next game isn’t really against the men of Norwich City.
It’s against the doubts and anxieties in their own hearts.
Fear will be lurking at Carrow Road, waiting.
Each must face the anxiety of wanting it too much.
And the perilous complacency of not wanting it enough.
Disquiet mounting with every misplaced pass and wayward shot.
And suddenly we’re chasing a game we absolutely need to win.

We’re so high up now.
So close.
Such a way to fall.
How would we ever recover.

Were you ever this anxious playing footy in the park?
Can you remember those gloriously long summer days?
When we just ran, and laughed and played.
Just for the joy of it.
There might be a lesson there somewhere.
I do hope in growing up, I haven’t forgotten it.
Because just imagine the awesome possibilities
Of a life without fear.


One of the best things ever written here. Absolutely superb.
Sid Lowe (@sidlowe)
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Offline mercury

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 3-2 MCFC
« Reply #113 on: April 16, 2014, 06:47:15 am »
Do you not think a large part of this is simply that for the first time in a long time (possibly forever) he isn't carrying the team, and is surrounded by a group of players he trusts more than ever before? Makes it a lot easier to have a more calm, measured approach...

This also means Gerrard has matured in his head and accepts that he can't be everywhere and has to be more measured in his approach, not the least because he is now 33.  I think he's become an even better player because of it.

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 3-2 MCFC
« Reply #114 on: April 16, 2014, 08:54:57 am »
I'm not eloquent, nor articulate enough to post credibly in this thread, but Sterling and Coutinho must give our oposition nightmares.

Like Greyhounds with the ball, but like a pair of Jack Russells without it.

And let's not dwell too much on City's ascendancy, a team like the one they put out was always going to have a dominant period.

Also agree with those that have said that they seemed to give up after our third, they did. As a manager that would worry me greatly.
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Offline God's Left Peg

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 3-2 MCFC
« Reply #115 on: April 16, 2014, 09:00:26 am »
Do you not think a large part of this is simply that for the first time in a long time (possibly forever) he isn't carrying the team, and is surrounded by a group of players he trusts more than ever before? Makes it a lot easier to have a more calm, measured approach...

Yes, I do think this will play a part too. He definitely will be able to look around him now and see real quality in every position. But he also has an older head and older legs, so I see these circumstances as also playing a key role. I think he has also said that Brendan is the best man-manager he has worked with (Correct me if wrong); if so, I am sure he is continuing to learn and pick things up, as he will have done with all the managers he has worked for (the good and the great - not the Owl!).

What really sticks out in my mind is the mental image of a much younger Gerrard about to bollock Xabi Alonso during a cup(?) game against Luton, when Xabi attempted and executed an audacious near-halfway-line chip on goal. Of course, Stevie never got that far because the attempts was sublime and, in the event, successful. Gerrard has been that sort of leader for years, handing out bollockings when necessary and generally straightening his teammates out (Please note - this is NOT a criticism). However, listen to what Rodgers has reiterated most recently - play without fear, play the right way and he will shoulder the blame if the wheels come off. You can't tell me that sort of ethos won't be rubbing off on Stevie, especially when it is clearly so productive and potent.
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Offline Ray K

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 3-2 MCFC
« Reply #116 on: April 16, 2014, 09:02:18 am »
It seems to be down to delivery. Gerrard has been fantastic since Rodgers arrived, and Coutinho has come in and been just as effective. I wouldn't surprise me to hear that they both put a lot of practice into it.

Gerrard hasn't always been this good at corners.

I also think that - like our attacks - our variation has surprised defenders.

The corner from which Gerrard's header was saved by Hart was delivered from the right by Coutinho.
The corner from the opposite side seconds later was delivered by Gerrard for the Slovakian Hammer.

Both corners were brilliantly delivered, and as you say, probably something they worked hard on.
But the next corner from the same side, probably 2 mins after the goal, on the same side of the pitch was taken by Suarez. 
3 corners in 5 mins made by 3 different players, with probably 3 different trajectories.
All it takes is one defender to think for a second if they're man-marking 'Right, I'm taking Suare - oh fuck, he's taking this, will I take Gerrard?'  and confusion reigns.
I wonder if Rodgers targets man-for-man marking as a potential weak spot in opposition analysis?

Gerrard's delivery from corners has been unbelievable this season. Probably the time he spent attacking from the right pinging them in for Torres has given him all the practice he's ever needed.

That, and him being an absolutely brilliant footballer which probably does help.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2014, 09:04:02 am by Ray K »
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Offline SMacDougall

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 3-2 MCFC
« Reply #117 on: April 16, 2014, 09:10:47 am »
Regarding the discussion about wingers, I wonder if Konoplyanka remains a target for us? Or will we be aiming our sights higher this summer, due to our unexpected progress?

Remember when Rodgers said that the failure to sign Konoplayka would only spur on the players we already have?

Haven't lost a game since.  8)

In regards to all the talk about City's period of dominance. Perhaps our inexperience played a part, for a bit, but really, this game should have, and could have gone the same way as the Arsenal and Spurs games. We spurned several chances to make it 3-0 during our blitzkrieg opening 35-40 minutes. Had we have made it 3-0, I don't think City would have been able to muster the fight-back that they did.

At the end of the day, it was Liverpool who ground out the result. Not Man City. It was us. Deserved winners.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2014, 09:15:33 am by SMacDougall »

Offline God's Left Peg

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 3-2 MCFC
« Reply #118 on: April 16, 2014, 09:13:36 am »
Just want to say hats off to a great thread and the in-depth analysis on our corner taking is particularly floating my boat. Remember when we were god-awful at these (set pieces in general really); what a turnaround.

Who needs Charlie Adam? ;)
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Offline Ray K

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 3-2 MCFC
« Reply #119 on: April 16, 2014, 09:16:52 am »
Just want to say hats off to a great thread and the in-depth analysis on our corner taking is particularly floating my boat. Remember when we were god-awful at these (set pieces in general really); what a turnaround.



You'd get some funny looks now if you launched a fanzine named 'Another Wasted Corner'  :D
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