Topic: Negativity on RAWK

[Mutton Geoff]

just had a guy on the other thread but we could have lost, well we didn't we won and if that didn't make him happy well what will?

In my opinion some people embrace moaning like a comfort blanket !

[Chakan]

Me as well. I'd take another 30 league games like that if it meant seeing us lift the league title for the first 19th time. 

[Fitzy.]

It's not negativity that eats me up, it's the total lack of measure that some fans engage in. I don't expect a 20,000 word thesis on the failings of our defensive unit but the disrespect to the players and Rodgers is hard to stomach. Just like it was hard to stomach when I read spoilt fans lambasting Rafa during low points of an otherwise great tenure.

It's a brutal way to look at it , but I kind of see some of these whoppers as a bit dim...thick even.

[Samie]

I was talking about me. i've not seen us lift the title.

[CallumLFC]

People saying we were poor are are just stating an accurate reflection of what went on today. You can be happy (relieved) with a result, but still not be happy with the performance. It's the bigger picture that counts, I mean, how often are we going to get away with that? And why is it a common theme this season that we concede late goals, and we concede set pieces?

Hell even our captain and our manager said we were not good enough. So I don't really see the problem here. One or two over the top posts doesn't render all of RAWK "negative".

Pretty much.

[Something Awful]

For thos saying 30 games like today and a league win would be acceptable...

...how many of us would actually survive to the last game with that sort of a run? I think I'd die before Christmas.

[lgvkarlos]

Frustration requires catharsis, joy does not. Football forums fulfil an emotional function. We win, play well, I might write a couple of sentences applauding the play and get on with my day. Lose, play bad, and my day is over, I need to get that shit out of me. Negativity is no big deal, nor is tribalism in football, if you can take it with a pinch of salt. There is serious shit, like the NHS, the fucked up world/society we live in, and then there is football, important, but it's major purpose is to distract us from getting worked up about shit that really matters.

With you totally, can't see the big problem.
Moaning is a British pass time.
The forum would be boring without differing opinions.

And the worst thing about our f**ked up world is our inability to do anything about.

[Alonso_The_Assassin]

Couldn't agree more with the original post. I'll take 10 scratchy wins over 10 losses where we played great and didn't get a thing from it any day of the week.

I don't like to bring the guy up in here, but the words Roy Keane was spouting off about the United supporters the other day appear to ring quite true about a section of our own 'supporters'.

Given the issues which surround the world at the moment, moaning about a football matches are problems of the first world variety. Get some perspective, indeed.

[Red Sea]

Couldn't agree more with the original post. I'll take 10 scratchy wins over 10 losses where we played great and didn't get a thing from it any day of the week.

I don't like to bring the guy up in here, but the words Roy Keane was spouting off about the United supporters the other day appear to ring quite true about a section of our own 'supporters'.

Given the issues which surround the world at the moment, moaning about a football matches are problems of the first world variety. Get some perspective, indeed.

those quotes were fake.

[QC]

Some of the comments in the Rodgers thread recently have been some of the worst comments I have ever seen on this forum and even worse when you consider where we are as a club. Discussing bad performances is different to the levels of negativity shown.

Yeah, but as with most discussions, the extreme views will stand out the most. Is it really that big a deal what the few radicals think? The majority of people can be objective.

[Alonso_The_Assassin]

those quotes were fake.

Haha, fair enough. My apologies. Still, the sentiment rings true.

[S]

Any viewpoint, within reason, should be accepted as long as it's not a knee jerk response and is explained reasonably. I can see why people would get frustrated if, for example, someone simply typed 'Rodgers out' at half-time today. With a forum this big there will always be posts like that unfortunately.

There's nothing wrong with different perspectives though. The optimist versus pessimist narrative has permeated RAWK for a while now and it's stupid. Nobody should feel like they can't articulate their opinion just because someone else may perceive it as negative.

[Lady_brandybuck]

Any viewpoint, within reason, should be accepted as long as it's not a knee jerk response and is explained reasonably. I can see why people would get frustrated if, for example, someone simply typed 'Rodgers out' at half-time today. With a forum this big there will always be posts like that unfortunately.

There's nothing wrong with different perspectives though. The optimist versus pessimist narrative has permeated RAWK for a while now and it's stupid. Nobody should feel like they can't articulate their opinion just because someone else may perceive it as negative.

Constructive opinions, I guess, are more than welcome on RAWK, but moaning about every single aspect of a football match is neither constructive nor right. People that moan as much as some Rawkites out there, do actually enjoy watching the game? any game? from any season? anytime?

[S]

Constructive opinions, I guess, are more than welcome on RAWK, but moaning about every single aspect of a football match is neither constructive nor right. People that moan as much as some Rawkites out there, do actually enjoy watching the game? any game? from any season? anytime?

Agreed. Like I said, thoughtless and baseless moaning can be annoying. I've been called negative on here countless times but I maintain that my posts are grounded in my own logic.

Is there an ignore feature on RAWK? I imagine a few would welcome that, if it's actually possible.

As for enjoyment, you can't tell me you enjoyed todays match!

[kcbworth]

we played badly today. I won't deny it. We were poor as a team and a few individuals had exceptionally bad games, not for the first time this season. And there may be cause for some concern.

Moaning bastard

The main reaction to today's win should be happiness.

I can't agree with this. The main reaction should be "holy fucking shit - wtf just happened ".

But it's nice to wake up today and see where we are on the league table compared to the start of the day - that does bring a smile to the face.

Make no mistake though, QPR lost that game, predominantly due to a very very soft own goal (the first goal)

[Bobinhood]

Well that first half of the road win was utterly dire drab dull and uninspiring, and the second half was a serviceably presentable workmanlike response to that, and the finish consisted of collapse, rescue miracle , incredible collapse, rescue miracle conducted in a time added on wormhole.

plenty of room for spin in that particular kettle of fish. Bizarreness. In the end though, 3 points , the rescue was effected, which is better than the odds on were. Better than not effected by some distance.

[Hij]

It's horrible on here at the moment.

yep.

[Hij]

There is a clear difference though. We all sing and quote you'll never walk alone all the time. Today the travelling Kop made sure Mario didn't. Shit game or not, you could see on the replays that he was pissed off at not doing well enough, he was crap fair enough but despite what others may think it came across to me at least that he cared. No one curses and swears about moments in a match unless they give a shit.

Whether it's Lucas, Henderson or Mario I always recognise that and while his game was disappointing I don't think he left the stadium laughing that he got away with a poor performance it seems like he was probably frustrated that he didn't do enough. And I like that in our players even if the performance isn't at the standard we want.

Had some disagreements on this but I still think he's putting that ball in the back of the net if Caulker doesn't do it for us.

He's staying here for the foreseeable and it's up to Brendan if he drops him.

We will see what happens. It's clear to me that already he cares about the club. You might think he's bullshitting or whatever to curry favour and fair enough but he wasn't laughing and joking when stuff was going wrong you could see him swearing under his breath.

He's having a hard time of it and of course we should focus on that and analyse it in how he performs for us but he scored a vital goal against Ludogorets and if we take a second to remember peter crouch we know we have had players who have come in and not hit the ground running previously .

So on Internet forums I guess you can't prevent criticism but I would hope we keep it away from match days.

[skooma]

What do you want? I don't think a team that almost gave up a couple goals save for a fantastic defender, and had to get 2 own goals to win and who's striker booted a sitter falls under a team that played really well. The team was very lucky to win and God was a Liverpool fan today. I'm happy they won of course, but there's work to be done too. I really doubt Rodgers told everyone they played a flawless game afterward.

Any viewpoint, within reason, should be accepted as long as it's not a knee jerk response and is explained reasonably. I can see why people would get frustrated if, for example, someone simply typed 'Rodgers out' at half-time today. With a forum this big there will always be posts like that unfortunately.

There's nothing wrong with different perspectives though. The optimist versus pessimist narrative has permeated RAWK for a while now and it's stupid. Nobody should feel like they can't articulate their opinion just because someone else may perceive it as negative.

Yeah, I'm getting tired of people getting shouted down because they have an opinion others don't agree with.  The team isn't perfect, they never were and they never will be. No one should have to deny what's in front of their face because it isn't proper fan behavior. There's such a thing as going too far with criticism, but there's also going too far in the other direction too. I don't really don't care if people say that makes me not a fan. Even if you've been watching since you were swimming in your dad's sack, that's not your decision to make.

At the end of the day, no matter what happens, I come back and watch every minute of Liverpool football I possibly can. I can't even watch a match that doesn't involve Liverpool, because I don't care enough to bother.

[keyo]

Anyone think some of these 'moaners' do actually attend home games though and that's contributed to the downfall in atmosphere at anfield in recent years? those that just sit there don't get involved in any singing or backing of the team (until winning) and every goal conceded stand's up screaming at the players slagging them off? winds me up,

i'd take every 3 point's no matter how we win them, Liverpool have always had a way of making it tough for fan's to watch, especially in recent years but it's part and parcel of being a fan, don't get me wrong everyone has a moan but to slag the team off like some have after we've won no matter what the performance is like is a bit of a joke, i'm buzzin with the three point's made my weekend and 3 days till Madrid 10 times happier

those people have always been at the match...going back to when I used to go the match in the 80's and 90's.....the 'aul moaners in the kemlyn' were well known, and then there was the main standers who never got out of their seat whatever happened....so, no, i don't think they have contributed to the atmosphere any more than normal

with regard to the op, people whinge and moan, people cheer and shout, it is what fans do....if you are able to step back during a game and immediately afterwards and be rational and clear minded, then you are probably not as emotionally invested as others. but write your reaction down - or type it on a forum - and it probably looks stupid and does not reflect your rational point of view in the cold light of day (positives and negatives).  we get mindless positivity and optimism on here just as we get mindless criticism, mostly neither contributes to threads where there is meant to be debate, so maybe just ignore it as opposed to feeling the need to respond to it or to start threads complaining about it

to use an analogy someone else used, when in the pub after the game and you hear someone complaining at the next table, is there a need to interject to call bullshit, or is it something you complain to your own mates about?

I would say there is an awful lot more straight arguing and abuse in here these days than there used to be,...but then the more popular boards get, the more difficult they get to moderate as numbers increase, and points of view get more polarised

[Hij]

It's fine to think we were shite today isn't it? It grates when people seem to revel in it and the "I told you so" shite is littered all over the place.

[Hij]

We were shite in Istanbul, we were shite in Cardiff we were shite at Wembley but you know what? We fucking came out victorious. And that's ultimately all that fucking matters.

[kcbworth]

We were shite in Istanbul, we were shite in Cardiff we were shite at Wembley but you know what? We fucking came out victorious. And that's ultimately all that fucking matters.

To be fair, the reasons we were at Istanbul, Cardiff, and Wembley was because we hadn't been shite in the games that led to that one. To then get through the cup final is of course a moment of elation, regardless of how it happens.

The issue at the moment is on our current trajectory, we won't get to the cup final... we'll fall at one of the early hurdles. And if anything we're looking less likely to, every passing game.

So, definitely a cause for concern. Is concern the same as moaning? Not sure. But I think most of us would be lying if we said that we're confident about the very short term prospects of the team, based on what has been happening the past few weeks.

[Kenny's Jacket]

First of all I honestly don’t think any Liverpool fan wants us to do badly so they can either moan or say they were right.
There does seem to be two rather extreme groups one here though.  The everything fine and the everything’s shit and I think comments from one group promt reactions from the other group.

A day like yesterday if it happened last year would have been met mainly with glee. Hahaha we played terrible and won, hallmark of champions, we would have just basked in our good fortune of winning and a crazy end to a game. The problem this year is that the performance we put on yesterday was rather typical of how we’ve been playing,

As for the calls for Rogers to be sacked, or suggestions he might be, yeah fuck right off. 

I don’t think our Transfer window was successful and you can pretty much see that in the performances, but I’m not sure you can blame Rodgers.  We don’t pay top wages and foreigners don’t want to live in Liverpool.  He has to work with what he has. 

[Hij]

To be fair the reason we are in the champions league is because we hadn't been shite in the games that led to here as well. So I  understand and agree, I've not said we shouldn't have concerns but we had Jamie carragher drop into his own net against west ham and came through it. All of our last three finals weren't exactly easy games where we dicked the opposition, sometimes shit happens and you have to fight through it and we did right?

Brendan and the players can worry about correcting what's happened this week but the bottom line is that we came out with three points and the two that sterling won us could not only be a big boost of confidence but decide whether we finish fourth or not !

[mjjason]

I try make it a point to never come on rawk after a match win lose or draw.  If it's a lose or draw I wait 2 days.  For a win I wait a few hours.  For some reason the comments after a performance are absolutely draining to read and not why I love this club so better to avoid it then to read it.  Negativity was the main reason I left the official Liverpoolfc.tv message boards and came to rawk.  Sadly rawk is now almost equal to that level of negativity.

[GrkStav]

First of all I honestly don’t think any Liverpool fan wants us to do badly so they can either moan or say they were right.
There does seem to be two rather extreme groups one here though.  The everything fine and the everything’s shit and I think comments from one group promt reactions from the other group.

A day like yesterday if it happened last year would have been met mainly with glee. Hahaha we played terrible and won, hallmark of champions, we would have just basked in our good fortune of winning and a crazy end to a game. The problem this year is that the performance we put on yesterday was rather typical of how we’ve been playing,

As for the calls for Rogers to be sacked, or suggestions he might be, yeah fuck right off. 

I don’t think our Transfer window was successful and you can pretty much see that in the performances, but I’m not sure you can blame Rodgers.  We don’t pay top wages and foreigners don’t want to live in Liverpool.  He has to work with what he has.

I don't think you've made that point before. It's good to finally see you stop beating around the bush, so to speak.

[GrkStav]

That's not what I said though is it ?

Personally speaking, the performance is only the icing, the result is the cake.

I couldn't care less how well we play if we win.

Well, good for you then. It's when we do not win regularly that the crappy performances and the patently wrong tactical decisions become annoying.

Clearly, a series of mediocre performances with winning results, spiced up by some first-class performances with winning results,plus some very good performances with less than ideal results make for both a WINNING and a satisfying season.

[L666KOP]

Well, good for you then. It's when we do not win regularly that the crappy performances and the patently wrong tactical decisions become annoying.

Clearly, a series of mediocre performances with winning results, spiced up by some first-class performances with winning results,plus some very good performances with less than ideal results make for both a WINNING and a satisfying season.

I don't want to play like Barcelona and lose  ?

If we win a game then I'm not arsed if it happens like it did yesterday. Not in the slightest.

Do those that support Mourinho's teams get all bent out of shape because he tends to lock games down ? Do they fuck, because there's a very strong possibility they get to see him lift a pot at the end of every season.

I'd much rather we played like last season, but only if it means something come May.

Given a choice between points, or performance though ? Show me a man that would say performance. And given the indifferent start we've had thus far, I'd like for the team to be concentrating solely on results, the performance is secondary.

[kcbworth]

I don't want to play like Barcelona and lose  ?

If we win a game then I'm not arsed if it happens like it did yesterday. Not in the slightest.

Do those that support Mourinho's teams get all bent out of shape because he tends to lock games down ? Do they fuck, because there's a very strong possibility they get to see him lift a pot at the end of every season.

I'd much rather we played like last season, but only if it means something come May.

Given a choice between points, or performance though ? Show me a man that would say performance. And given the indifferent start we've had thus far, I'd like for the team to be concentrating solely on results, the performance is secondary.

Lol at comparing the way we played yesterday with playing like Barca

The reality is we only won because of their lack of quality in their goal scoring... more clinical finishers and we would have lost by many goals.

They also scored 2 (yes TWO) own goals, and even then, we only snuck through a win in the final kick

Complaining that anyone who is a bit concerned with this "cares more about the performance" is completely the wrong track of argument imho.

Comparing it with Chelsea is a complete red herring.

At this point I think everyone would be happy for us to play turgid long ball stuff, provided we actually looked like we would be able to (a) occasionally defend, and (b) occasionally score.

Yesterday at no point did we really look like we could defend, and until Coutinho came on, nor did we look like we were remotely capable of scoring.

THis is nothing about "style" and more to do with "being in the fucking game"

[BazC]

I don't want to play like Barcelona and lose  ?

If we win a game then I'm not arsed if it happens like it did yesterday. Not in the slightest.

Do those that support Mourinho's teams get all bent out of shape because he tends to lock games down ? Do they fuck, because there's a very strong possibility they get to see him lift a pot at the end of every season.

I'd much rather we played like last season, but only if it means something come May.

Given a choice between points, or performance though ? Show me a man that would say performance. And given the indifferent start we've had thus far, I'd like for the team to be concentrating solely on results, the performance is secondary.

This is the point though. Over time playing as though we did yesterday is not going to get us anything. the only thing different about yesterday vs the rest of the poor games this season was that we actually won. Otherwise it's getting arses handed by the likes of villa and West Ham. If we played like Barcelona, yeah we'd lose the odd game. We'd win far more though.

The major frustration is that it's getting worse and were about to face the European champions. I'll be on a flight to Miami so I'm gutted to be missing the biggest European night at anfield for years. But let's be honest, these lads have got it in them to really embarrass themselves on Wednesday.

[Mingle]

Is this a forum or a love-in?

Opinions, whether you agree or not is what it's all about surely?

[GrkStav]

I don't want to play like Barcelona and lose  ?

If we win a game then I'm not arsed if it happens like it did yesterday. Not in the slightest.

Do those that support Mourinho's teams get all bent out of shape because he tends to lock games down ? Do they fuck, because there's a very strong possibility they get to see him lift a pot at the end of every season.

I'd much rather we played like last season, but only if it means something come May.

Given a choice between points, or performance though ? Show me a man that would say performance. And given the indifferent start we've had thus far, I'd like for the team to be concentrating solely on results, the performance is secondary.

I believe you are skirting the real issue and perhaps arguing against a strawman.

No, the performance is not secondary, because the performance tends to, over the longer haul, be highly correlated with results.

Under no circumstances should we take the game vs QPR as any kind of blueprint. That would be the height of imbecility. That would be akin to going on a hike in the Mojave desert without water and luckily finding a stranded Sparklets (bottled water) truck just as one is about to die of thirst, surviving and then trying it again. Chances are, the second time around, one WILL die of thirst.

[L666KOP]

Lol at comparing the way we played yesterday with playing like Barca
I didn't, not sure how you thought I did ?

The reality is we only won because of their lack of quality in their goal scoring... more clinical finishers and we would have lost by many goals.
Agreed.

They also scored 2 (yes TWO) own goals, and even then, we only snuck through a win in the final kick
But we kept on at it, twice we could have tried to lock it down, but we kept going

Complaining that anyone who is a bit concerned with this "cares more about the performance" is completely the wrong track of argument imho.
Again, I've not said that anywhere

Comparing it with Chelsea is a complete red herring.
Really ? A Mourinho team always put substance before style, yes or no ? They tend to get the job done.

At this point I think everyone would be happy for us to play turgid long ball stuff, provided we actually looked like we would be able to (a) occasionally defend, and (b) occasionally score.
Not me, we might not be able to mimic last season, but let's try to play with the same principles at least. It won't always work though.

Yesterday at no point did we really look like we could defend, and until Coutinho came on, nor did we look like we were remotely capable of scoring.
Agreed

THis is nothing about "style" and more to do with "being in the fucking game"

[The 5th Benitle]

Is this a forum or a love-in?

Opinions, whether you agree or not is what it's all about surely?

You haven't read the OP, and that applies to a couple of others too.

[john_mac]

Is this a forum or a love-in?

Opinions, whether you agree or not is what it's all about surely?

disagree

[L666KOP]

I believe you are skirting the real issue and perhaps arguing against a strawman.

No, the performance is not secondary, because the performance tends to, over the longer haul, be highly correlated with results.

Under no circumstances should we take the game vs QPR as any kind of blueprint. That would be the height of imbecility. That would be akin to going on a hike in the Mojave desert without water and luckily finding a stranded Sparklets (bottled water) truck just as one is about to die of thirst, surviving and then trying it again. Chances are, the second time around, one WILL die of thirst.

The performance is always secondary, I'm not advocating we start trying to emulate yesterday on a regular basis.
I'm just sick of people needing to bitch and fucking moan about something, I'd take a result like yesterdays every day of the week, if we lose then by all means knock yourselves out discussing why it happened. I do it as much as the next man.

What I can't comprehend though, is that within seconds of winning out in a rollercoaster like yesterday when my emotions certainly got the better of me people were on here like we'd got beat.

Too many on here that don't understand the phrase 'good performance' because their default setting is the four months from January to May this year. A good performance is doing exactly what the manager wants, and hopefully getting the result at the end.

QPR put in a good performance yesterday, a really good one on the face of it, how did that go ?

[Mingle]

You haven't read the OP, and that applies to a couple of others too.

Read it again and my post still applies...

I hate people moaning and whinging but it's their right to do so, especially in a forum!

Negative people exist, and will continue to do so....

And so long as it nothing is abusive everything should be viable! L

Let's grind the negative down together rather than shout, curse & bollock them

[L666KOP]

Read it again and my post still applies...

I hate people moaning and whinging but it's their right to do so, especially in a forum!

Negative people exist, and will continue to do so....

And so long as it nothing is abusive everything should be viable! L

Let's grind the negative down together rather than shout, curse & bollock them

Yesterday we were shit, we all know it. But we won. We got out of jail.

Yet considering just how we won, why were people on the PM within seconds of the final whistle posting like we'd lost.

If we play Madrid off the park on Wednesday but lose to a late deflection will you be more pleased than you should be now ?

We are struggling at the moment, it's just not clicking, we know it's there, we've seen it in flashes. The key is to get a settled side out and hope it becomes consistent. We'd love to emulate the second half of last season, winning 6-3 every other weekend, but we aren't at that level. So instead we have to make do with scratchy wins like yesterday. Confidence is bred by winning. Not by playing well and losing. String a few wins together, the confidence builds, and the better performances will follow.

[Mingle]

The performance is always secondary, I'm not advocating we start trying to emulate yesterday on a regular basis.
I'm just sick of people needing to bitch and fucking moan about something, I'd take a result like yesterdays every day of the week, if we lose then by all means knock yourselves out discussing why it happened. I do it as much as the next man.

What I can't comprehend though, is that within seconds of winning out in a rollercoaster like yesterday when my emotions certainly got the better of me people were on here like we'd got beat.

Too many on here that don't understand the phrase 'good performance' because their default setting is the four months from January to May this year. A good performance is doing exactly what the manager wants, and hopefully getting the result at the end.

QPR put in a good performance yesterday, a really good one on the face of it, how did that go ?

The performance is secondary, but when it's becoming the norm the keep playing so bad I can't see beyond it!

Of course I was happy we won, but surely The elephant in the room, or on the pitch in this case, was were still playing poor, very poor!

Woo hoo.... we won by playing terrible... Great teams do that we are always told - this is true!

But make no mistake, we will lose more than we win by playing as bad as we did yesterday! The point is that performace isn't a one off, it's October and we have played well for 90 minutes once... ONCE! And also in patches in isolated matches too to be fair!

Half empty or half full ? Today is a half empty day!