Author Topic: Our Attack - meaning people at the club now - not players you fancy signing  (Read 78862 times)

Offline SquirrelandGman

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We obviously havent looked the same since you know who left.But having said that we have had a few new attacking players coming in trying to gel and obviously need time.

However, we have looked laborious in attack. Part of what made us so good last season was fast intricate play that made defenders shit their pants.That lack of urgency and pace is concerning and currently only sterling is able to provide that with sturridge out. I feel theres some square pegs in round holes situation going on and its gonna be a huge problem should anything happen to sterling too.

Should we change the system so we can fit these new players in to make a more effective attack in the mean time?Or should we stick it out until we can get the same zip we had during the 2nd half of last season?
« Last Edit: October 23, 2014, 09:51:35 am by SP »

Offline harryc

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Re: Our Attack.
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2014, 11:23:59 pm »
What attack?

Offline LFCDynamic

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Re: Our Attack.
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2014, 11:24:31 pm »
To support a team in success is easy. But, to support a team even during bad times shows real character.

Offline Cid

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Re: Our Attack.
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2014, 11:24:39 pm »
It seems we sold our attack to Barcelona.

Always know we're in for a tough night when a front 3 appears.  We lack the kind of striker and the quality of wingers to make that effective.

In truth we lack the quality options for two up front as well but at least  we have good attacking mids.   Perhaps a 4411 could be the way to go.

Offline tubby

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Re: Our Attack.
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2014, 11:25:32 pm »
Currently don't look like we've got goals in the team other than from Sterling and Sturridge.  Balotelli will be good for around 15 a season, but after that it starts to dry up.  We need the likes of Henderson, Coutinho, Allen, Markovic and Lallana to start weighing in.
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Offline Deo

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Re: Our Attack.
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2014, 11:26:08 pm »
We were like this for the most part of last season's first half. Bar a few decent results, we generally struggled to score much. Then December came...
"Our fans cannot give red cards or award penalties, but they can score goals." - Rafa Benitez

Offline Sir Psycho Sexy

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Re: Our Attack.
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2014, 11:27:24 pm »
Should we change the system so we can fit these new players in to make a more effective attack in the mean time?Or should we stick it out until we can get the same zip we had during the 2nd half of last season?
Rodgers does change the system from time to time though. Today we played a 4-3-3 and we've played 4-2-3-1 as well as our standard 4-1-2-1-2. But our movement is just nowhere near as good as last season. This isn't helped by Sturridge being out and while Mario does drift deep and wide a fair bit, when he does we don't have someone in the middle to challenge the defence or running in behind. I don't think any of our new attacking players have fully grasped what we want from our attack and that's a problem.
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Offline Humperdinck

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Re: Our Attack.
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2014, 11:27:56 pm »
Think theres way, way, way too many judgements going on so far. Remember last season? Sterling is shit and has to go on loan. We cant score goals. We dont press. We wont get top 4. We dont play second halfs etc etc.

History seems to have been re-written that we were amazing all season but there was a lot of whining about various things and writing off of players notably Gerrard and Raheem.

Offline Gnurglan

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Re: Our Attack.
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2014, 11:29:19 pm »
Not very good at the moment, but I think we will improve. We should, with the talent we have at our disposal.

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Offline SquirrelandGman

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Re: Our Attack.
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2014, 11:30:07 pm »
It seems we sold our attack to Barcelona.

Always know we're in for a tough night when a front 3 appears.  We lack the kind of striker and the quality of wingers to make that effective.

In truth we lack the quality options for two up front as well but at least  we have good attacking mids.   Perhaps a 4411 could be the way to go.

Its always gonna be tough with him gone.But my point is did brendan go into this season thinking of the same style with these new players? Or is he gonna be more flexible in attack so we dont become predictable?

Offline Nosss

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Re: Our Attack.
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2014, 11:31:09 pm »
We're lacking movement up top. That'll change when Sturridge is back but we need to fix it for when he's not playing. Balotelli isn't the type of player to be buzzing around everywhere and making runs in behind so we need other players to take up that mantle but it's clear none of them are used to that yet.

We destroyed Tottenham when they tried to play us without sitting back as much so we still have the ability to do that, its the teams that want to soak us up and let us play in front of them that are the problem (and they were the problem last season with Suarez too). We need to figure out to play those types of teams because otherwise more and more teams will do it. We have the talent to do it, it'll just take time. The worry for me is it may take too much time.

Offline RK7

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Re: Our Attack.
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2014, 11:31:12 pm »
Were see the best of our attack when we go in front and can counter sides with pace.

Sturridge is key to this though and it was a hot topic in the summer window the need for us to sign another Suarez or Sturridge type forward. Instead we made a poor move bringing in Balotelli and Lambert.

Offline SquirrelandGman

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Re: Our Attack.
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2014, 11:33:01 pm »
Rodgers does change the system from time to time though. Today we played a 4-3-3 and we've played 4-2-3-1 as well as our standard 4-1-2-1-2. But our movement is just nowhere near as good as last season. This isn't helped by Sturridge being out and while Mario does drift deep and wide a fair bit, when he does we don't have someone in the middle to challenge the defence or running in behind. I don't think any of our new attacking players have fully grasped what we want from our attack and that's a problem.

I think they do grasp it but not able to just pull it off on the pitch. You see mario going deep and going out wide to stretch out defenses but its not going quite exactly to plan. Personally feel he should just stay around penalty box and let the rest do the work cause hes deadly in there rather than help "build up play"

Offline Easy

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Re: Our Attack.
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2014, 11:37:26 pm »
Our attack is about movement and pace both in midfield (quick passing) and up front (running into space).

Without Sturridge we have Borini (not pacey and not good enough) Balo (likes the ball to feet, not into space) and Lambert (no pace).

We have to play a rather different style to make that one work but instead we're playing as if we still have Suarez and Sturridge up front. Either we've bought the wrong 2nd, 3rd, 4th strikers or we've not got the tactics right. Which one is it? Over to Brendan.

Offline RideTheWalrus

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Re: Our Attack.
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2014, 11:39:03 pm »
Really think if Markovic plays he should stay out wide. His pace and dribbling is fantastic, but coming infield looks a bit lost.
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Offline Cid

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Re: Our Attack.
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2014, 11:39:37 pm »
Its always gonna be tough with him gone.But my point is did brendan go into this season thinking of the same style with these new players? Or is he gonna be more flexible in attack so we dont become predictable?

I honestly think the plan was that tightening up at the back could lessen the impact of the attacking threat we lost.  We've gone into a couple of games with two deeper midfielders and seem to play the ball into feet a lot more than last season.  I suspect our continuing defensive issues and teams parking the bus against us has caused a rethink... Right this moment I'm not entirely sure what we're aiming for.

Offline Gnurglan

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Re: Our Attack.
« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2014, 11:42:03 pm »
One thing I take from tonight's game is we need to get the players to combine in the final third. Suso's goal, that was the one time we did something different and it paid off.

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Offline SquirrelandGman

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Re: Our Attack.
« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2014, 11:48:16 pm »
Our attack is about movement and pace both in midfield (quick passing) and up front (running into space).

Without Sturridge we have Borini (not pacey and not good enough) Balo (likes the ball to feet, not into space) and Lambert (no pace).

We have to play a rather different style to make that one work but instead we're playing as if we still have Suarez and Sturridge up front. Either we've bought the wrong 2nd, 3rd, 4th strikers or we've not got the tactics right. Which one is it? Over to Brendan.

To be fair we did go balls out for sanchez and we failed so that tells us brendan wanted the style to stay the same this season.

Then remy..then balotelli. Lambert was obviously plan b from the get go considering borini gets to start ahead of him in league matches

Offline Arcadian

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Re: Our Attack.
« Reply #18 on: September 24, 2014, 01:17:34 am »
Will look completely different once Sturridge is back.
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Offline bornandbRED

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Re: Our Attack.
« Reply #19 on: September 24, 2014, 01:23:40 am »
We were like this for the most part of last season's first half. Bar a few decent results, we generally struggled to score much. Then December came...

Which seems to be the answer for everything at the moment.

Offline thelinnen

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Re: Our Attack.
« Reply #20 on: September 24, 2014, 01:29:10 am »
It's quite simple, our entire squad is out of form except for Raheem Sterling. They are either not at the races, getting used to a new team or getting match sharpness. If we're still talking about this in a couple of months time then we have a problem.
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Offline KiNki

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Re: Our Attack.
« Reply #21 on: September 24, 2014, 01:30:26 am »
ballotelli, sturridge, Origi next season.  Pace, strength, capable of creating something from very little.   Quite happy with this could do with another forward with these qualities.  Lambert, borini, no pace, no strength.

Wingers (true sense of the word as in bollocks to take a player on, hug the touchline, turn of pace)  Raheem.   Ibe on loan. assaidi on loan. Dont know where we stand with suso. I hope we get kono in january.   Wingers would be our plan b alternative to the diamond.   

No.10s.   Lallana, raheem, countinho, markovic.  Not a bad bunch.  Would work better with two upfront so they have more room to operate.

central midfield.  Hendo, gerrard, allen, can, lucas. Alberto on loan.  rossitor, lussy just babes.   Need another two experienced dynamic midfielders, gradually ease out gerrard and lucas and oversee rossitors or other u21 midfielders closer to first team footy.

Sort that out and i think we'll be ok attacking wise.

Offline jckliew

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Re: Our Attack.
« Reply #22 on: September 24, 2014, 01:43:58 am »
i am bit confused by Rodgers seemingly change of attacking philosophy.
Last year's attacking bunch was one of the best since Rushie, Aldo and Barnsey.

Fair enough, when you know who left, he tried to replace with Sanchez who is a similar player.
Didnt get him. Who do we go for?

Lambert you can understand. Plan B.

Balo?  A totally different type of player from you know who and Sanchez, but fairly similar to Lambert.

What gives? Is Rodgers changing his attacking philosophy? 

i am confused
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Offline Spraynard Kruger

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Re: Our Attack.
« Reply #23 on: September 24, 2014, 02:04:54 am »
We're missing you-know-who, it's clear for all to see.


You know, that guy that wiggles his arms when he scores.

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Offline Juan Loco

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Re: Our Attack.
« Reply #24 on: September 24, 2014, 02:05:39 am »
We sold Suarez, and bought Lambert as back up, and three major attacking signings. The combined pre-season minutes for those 3 players at Liverpool was 45 minutes against Olympiakos. Two have been injured until the season was well underway and are thus rusty - and presumably in the preseason stage of building up (match) fitness. The other is Balotelli who, surprise surprise, manages to look simultaneously a classy player in cameos, but out of synch with his teammates. Oh, and Sturridge got injured too.

Basically we've taken out 50 goals on last year and people are amazed we haven't immediately got this years team firing when they're coming back from injuries and have barely played with the team? Sturridge would have helped tie us over. He got injured at a terrible time for us. It's not about expecting Sturridge to stay fit for every game, because that's unlikely, but he was probably going to be our biggest player the first 10 games (still will be given he's back next week). Last year we started slowly and he scored the goals the first few weeks until Suarez got back. We needed to have him around to be able to do that when we got Balotelli settled, when we nursed Lallana back to health, ideally when we did the same with Markovic too. Also, both seasons under Rodgers so far Gerrard has been a slow starter, and Phil last year (prior to injury) and this looks like he may be the same. Basically, someone who scores big goals would've been great to give everyone else a bit of breathing space these opening weeks.

Hasn't been the case so you get what we've got. A disjointed, often rusty attack with little cohesion. Take West Ham at the weekend. If you look at our better players that game - who were they? Sterling had a good game. Lallana had a promising game. Balotelli showed good signs. The team were shit and weren't too much of a threat. But in isolation you had 3 players who looked like they could do something, but none of it really happening together. Y'know, 'cos we're talking about players who have barely played together.

I think there's a bit of a pattern that's emerging under Rodgers. First 5-10 games are a bit of a slow one. You get the odd peak in there like Norwich away in the first season, or West Brom at home last year - worth remembering that before that point, even when we put 3 past Palace, people were complaining about our 2nd half drop-offs in games.

Games 10-20 are when you start to see a consistently higher level of performance. You've got Spurs, West Ham last year. Fulham, Wigan the year before (also in the first season this is around the time of the Europa League win in Udinese and when our home form really starts to settle down - Arsenal, United and Udinese win at home in the space of Rodgers first 10 league games, only Villa in the 2nd block of 10). Still get the odd blip in there, last year it was Hull, the year before it was Villa and Stoke, but the form is beginning to settle down and you can see the level the team is at.

Game 20 or so onwards are just throttle-down to the finish. Not going to win them all but the performances are at a good level and, y'know, we seem much fresher and faster as a team. We get 33 of our 61 points in 2012/13 from this point out, and 45 of our 84 in 2013-14 from here.

I'm just using these as rough markers by the way. I'm not saying we'll start caning teams from exactly that point onwards, but I'm fairly sure they're sign posts in performance. At the moment we don't have the strike-force we did last year to compensate for everything else with goals. What I think you'll start to see before November is Sturridge do some of that, and hopefully from then until the new year we'll get a bit of a taste of what Lallana, Markovic, Balotelli etc can contribute in that department, rather than being Sturridge/Sterling reliant.

Personally I think Rodgers is exceptional at coaching attack, as evidenced by the past two seasons, and that it's nothing more than a case of needing to coach players for a bit of time before they show it. It's an inevitable teething problem of having such a big turnover - a necessary one with the extra games (not to mention the fact that no one individual could replace Suarez).
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Offline Max_powers

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Re: Our Attack.
« Reply #25 on: September 24, 2014, 02:07:47 am »
While the players themselves haven't looked bad, I think it will take time for them to gel and for Rodgers to find the best possible way to utilize certain players.

Keep in mind we looked equally poor in our starting fixtures last year. But the team got better and better as year went on, same in Rodger's first season when we were getting battered by likes of West Brom but by december puting 3-4 or four past most teams.


In comparision last year we won 1-0 against stoke, United and Villa. Needed Extra time to beat Notts county and then lost 1-0 to Soton and United in LC.

Offline rickardinho1

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Re: Our Attack.
« Reply #26 on: September 24, 2014, 02:38:19 am »
Rome wasn't built in a day, give it time.

Once our players learn the triggers in attack for when to time their runs we're gonna be lethal again. Its very obvious that Markovic, Lallana, Balotelli, Borini, Lambert, etc are all still trying to familiarize themselves with each other and are sometimes completely out of sync when passes get played long when the forward is coming short - this happened loads of times today, especially with Lambert, and Markovic doesn't have the confidence to make those runs that Sturridge does all the time yet. There's nobody better than Rodgers to get these guys playing as a unit again.

That said, Balotelli coming short and looking for a shot every single time he's on the ball is a little too predictable for my liking. You need goalscorers, but I hope he can become a little bit more selfless and look to pass when he's around the box sometimes too instead of running left, then running right, then back to the left, and then to the center, and then getting his shot blocked.

Everyone also needs to remember that this team making the CL already last year was a year too early in terms of expected progression. Last season was supposed to be the season we contended for 4th place but missed out, and this would be the year we got 4th. We're on a long-term journey here and have just added 9 new players that will help solidify our top 4 position - which is what our aim this season should be. Getting all our new young players to gel together while the whole squad gets used to the Saturday-Tuesday routine.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2014, 02:41:46 am by rickardinho1 »

Offline Beninger

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Re: Our Attack.
« Reply #27 on: September 24, 2014, 02:58:29 am »
We need a bit more movement up front and a lot more energy in the middle of the pitch.  I'd like to see Lallana and Hendo in the "2" of the "1-2".  Sturridge is going to help a lot when he comes back, even if he doesn't score.  But I think we need to figure something else out for times when he's not able to play.  Considering Hodgson is a fucking idiot, and loves to pick Daniel for internationals, I doubt this is the first time we'll be missing him this season.  We really can't just hope he stays fit so we play well.
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Offline liverressie

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Re: Our Attack.
« Reply #28 on: September 24, 2014, 03:04:46 am »
i am bit confused by Rodgers seemingly change of attacking philosophy.
Last year's attacking bunch was one of the best since Rushie, Aldo and Barnsey.

Fair enough, when you know who left, he tried to replace with Sanchez who is a similar player.
Didnt get him. Who do we go for?

Lambert you can understand. Plan B.

Balo?  A totally different type of player from you know who and Sanchez, but fairly similar to Lambert.

What gives? Is Rodgers changing his attacking philosophy? 

i am confused

To be fair .. balo just bought in because he is the only classy player who is available and affordable by us. FSG likes to keep the wages in a low level and with around GBP90k a week, you cannot recruit any strikers with a better class than Balo. Balo is not a slow player and he can get into the box very quickly when he is required to even he always drops deep (same as Suarez in this aspect, only Suarez has better movements and runs a lot more). I still believe he can link up play and have a good partnership with Sturridge. 

At the same time, I still couldn't understand the point of not signing Remy and keep Borini. Remy failed in the medical but he plays a lot of games in the past few years and it looks okay. Remy is fast and with good ball movements and really good in his finishing. He has a low price tag as well. Let's imagine if we have Remy as a back up rather than Borini. We look much more threatening upfront, don't we? (I still believe if we sign another striker, Borini would agree he has no chances here and he would agree the transfer to QPR or Sunderland)

Offline Redshadow

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Re: Our Attack.
« Reply #29 on: September 24, 2014, 03:17:12 am »
We were like this for the most part of last season's first half. Bar a few decent results, we generally struggled to score much. Then December came...

This

Although I hope it will be sooner as the glimpse of that performance was there in Spurs game.
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Offline rickardinho1

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Re: Our Attack.
« Reply #30 on: September 24, 2014, 03:17:26 am »
To be fair .. balo just bought in because he is the only classy player who is available and affordable by us. FSG likes to keep the wages in a low level and with around GBP90k a week, you cannot recruit any strikers with a better class than Balo. Balo is not a slow player and he can get into the box very quickly when he is required to even he always drops deep (same as Suarez in this aspect, only Suarez has better movements and runs a lot more). I still believe he can link up play and have a good partnership with Sturridge. 

At the same time, I still couldn't understand the point of not signing Remy and keep Borini. Remy failed in the medical but he plays a lot of games in the past few years and it looks okay. Remy is fast and with good ball movements and really good in his finishing. He has a low price tag as well. Let's imagine if we have Remy as a back up rather than Borini. We look much more threatening upfront, don't we? (I still believe if we sign another striker, Borini would agree he has no chances here and he would agree the transfer to QPR or Sunderland)
Good points regarding Balotelli. Whilst its easy to say we would look better with Remy (and I agree we would) its hard to argue against not signing him if there were medical reasons for not doing so. I doubt we would have gone so far in the deal if we weren't serious. It could yet turn out to be a good decision...

Offline indlfc

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Re: Our Attack.
« Reply #31 on: September 24, 2014, 06:21:43 am »
We were like this for the most part of last season's first half. Bar a few decent results, we generally struggled to score much. Then Suarez came...
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Offline El Lobo

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Re: Our Attack.
« Reply #32 on: September 24, 2014, 07:30:36 am »
To be fair, teams fancy their chances more away to a side that finished 6th/7th than a team who were two points off winning the league.

Plus the equivalent games last season our attack looked similarly poor. Lost to Southampton, lost to City, drew at home to Villa, lucky away to West Ham and smashed Spurs up.

Plus yeah, Luis left. I do think eventually we'll become a better squad and have a better chance in more competitions, but it's barmy to think we wouldn't find it hard to adjust short term.
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Offline Petadroli

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Re: Our Attack.
« Reply #33 on: September 24, 2014, 07:39:26 am »
From my point of view, I think it is mainly due to the new players not yet being familiar with our running patterns. The passing is as good as always we just lack the movement to find space at the moment. It's why I am a big fan of Enrique, his movement in the offensive zone is surprisingly good and he gets in behind the defence time and time again with clever one-touch passing play. I also think our runners in deep get tracked a lot better than last season. It is one of our most important attacking plays to send someone deep, but it isn't clicking this season (yet).

I think until November we will start to click offensively and I hope we will get an additional offensive boost from the return of Sturridge.
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Offline GBF

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Re: Our Attack.
« Reply #34 on: September 24, 2014, 07:40:25 am »
Our "attack":

1) run fast towards opposition through the middle of the pitch
2) stop in front of defenders
3) pass back to Ming
4) repeat from step 1
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Offline Brentieke

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Re: Our Attack.
« Reply #35 on: September 24, 2014, 07:47:38 am »
I agree with a lot of what Juan said. This needs time and work on the training field. I believe that Lallana and Markovic are suited to the way we play (be it in a diamond or a 4-2-3-1).

What I don't think can be solved is the lack of mobility up front. Suarez was the most hyper active forward player in our history and Daniel Sturridge is constantly on the move. We replaced them with 2 target men: Balotelli (who I haven't seen make a forward run yet) and Lambert (who moves slower than an oil tanker).

Both these players are greatly restricting the likes of Lallana, Sterling, Coutinho and Markovic. Even Gerrard. We've got a midfield who were used to having the SAS make runs for them the second we got the ball. Now we've got strikers who stare at the midfielders and do nothing.

It's a huge change of style and it's clear that it's hugely restricting us. We've barely created a chance in the 4 games since Sturridge got injured. We haven't had a single one on one for example, as we don't have strikers making runs behind the defenders. Our play has been reduced to crosses and pot shots from distance.

We bought the wrong strikers for the system this Summer. It's as simple as that. We need to scour the earth for a mobile center forward and snap him up the second the January transfer market opens up.
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Offline robgomm

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Re: Our Attack.
« Reply #36 on: September 24, 2014, 07:53:12 am »
Last night we saw Lallana, Markovic and Sterling turn the ball some 16 times in 120 minutes, making three key passes between them. Lallana apparently attempted 16 crosses.

The losses of possession indicated for me that we were rushing things a bit and also the difficulty of trying to create in front of a deep defence (hence the crosses too, probably, also caused by our choice/use of our front men). The other problem is they don't yet know each other well enough.

Yet the positives are there, Markovic has a tidiness to his game that will serve him very good well. The more he settles the more danger we'll see from him. Lallana was excellent in his link play, energy and endeavour. We saw tracking back and generally good defensive work.

They will work it out in time. Balotelli coming on showed the difference you can make with a forward who is more confident in his close control, though he did make an awful hash of a lay off that nearly led to them scoring. He's actually not central enough because he's trying so hard to get involved! Again, you can take a positive from that.

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Re: Our Attack.
« Reply #37 on: September 24, 2014, 08:12:11 am »
Looking at the Spurs game I have no worries that once Sturridge returns to fitness our attack will be fine. That performance was as good as any from last season and showed that with a striker offering good movement and directness, coupled with a target man dropping deep we can mix it up.

The only worry is that we are obviously very reliant on an injury prone Sturridge.
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Offline Fairytale of 2005

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Re: Our Attack.
« Reply #38 on: September 24, 2014, 08:14:37 am »
I don't understand why we seem to have completely changed our way of playing. We have stopped doing all of the things that made us look so good last season and have become pedestrian. It's like we have ripped up the blueprint for our success last year. We look a shadow of that team at the moment.

Offline lebowski25

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Re: Our Attack.
« Reply #39 on: September 24, 2014, 08:19:25 am »
We need to start stretching defences, making it too easygoing or teams by going through the middle. Once sturridge is back having him up top with balotelli will see a huge improvement (it best had or were fucked)