Author Topic: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager  (Read 55949 times)

Offline the 92A

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Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« on: December 29, 2012, 02:29:35 pm »

The biggest problem facing us at the moment isn't the managers tactics or who we need to sign this transfer window it's the effect that the last few years has had on the fanbase. We're slowly turning into the worst type of Newcastle fans, (not you, Black and White Paul). The type of fans  we used to laugh at a few seasons ago, constantly looking for the 'new messiah' and in their impatience dooming every manager to failure irrespective of how good they are. It may be a cliche but it's the most important lesson any football fan can learn; it takes time to build anything of worth, unless you have an oil shiek or a Russian gangster willing to throw millions at your mistakes. You still make the mistakes but they don't matter, a bit like football manager you're not playing in the real world.

We were different, make no mistake. That difference came about many reasons but was reinforced over a long period. We were a managers club. A club where we were immune from the tittle tattle of the sports journalists with their short term mentality based on who's doing well this week. We laughed as they lynched another Ingerland manager,knowing we would never be effected by such idiocy. We'd learnt through experience of watching Shankly dismantle his first side, we watched as it took a few wrong turns to get the mix right. Nothing teaches a manager more than the experience of defeat.

Slowly things changed. Towards the end of Houlliers reign someone unfurled a banner with 'Houllier Out' at a home game. Unthinkable to the majority but the start of the process that leads us into the mess we are in today. Rafa Benitez delivered two Champions League finals in three years. Think about what an incredible achievement that was. Yet many of our fans could not see that he was being fucked over by a pair of shysters destroying the club from within. They believed the football genius's of the press and old player brigade who told us he was negative playing two holding midfielders with only one in attack, a system that won a World Cup and is being played by nearly everyone today. The same football genius's who laughed at rotation and zonal marking both accepted orthodoxies today. The same people who said we were two man side, Gerrard and Carragher, while Xabi Alonso et al played for us, yet used it as a stick to beat Benitez with later on. You couldn't make it up. We were lucky enough to be sitting in a bar outside the Bernabaeu, thanks to Rafa, listening to Sky News on our phones, worried that Rafa was being sacked before we beat Real in their own back yard and totally destroyed them at Anfield. So who was right then, the football genius's of the Media and those influenced by them or the the fans that ignored them and made the banner 'Focusing on Supporting our Manager.

Kenny Dalglish has forgotten more about football than anyone on here. He went along with the Comolli mistake because of his love for the club and his pleasure at being back in charge, he even refused to cut him lose when it would have been advantageous to him to do so. Honour is a commodity we're not used to seeing in football but then Kenny had very good teachers. He likes a tight defence coupled with total flexibility up front, for those who were prepared to wait it would have been an exciting journey but there were far too many 'experts' who knew better than Kenny, that contributed to the background, where FSG felt confident to cut a legend adrift, out of touch with the modern game, behave. Towards the end of last season I listened to a podcast that I enjoy listening to and apart from one dissenting voice I couldn't tell it apart from the mainstream criticism of Kenny, and on RAWK lets have a critical voice but also make sure we spend as much time discussing what we're doing right, defending the manager from the shite that's aimed at Liverpool from those who love to see us fail, otherwise all you see is the criticism despite the good intentions.

When FSG felt confident enough to sack Kenny I'd have loved the return of Rafa but that wasn't happening with Ian Ayer still at the club, with his 'inexperience', so I hoped for a young manger with ideas and a vision, so  I was not disappointed with Rodgers appointment.

Yeah, it's easy to see he's inexperienced at this level, this is a step up for him. Anyone can see that we like to push our fullbacks up, and our midfield's vulnerable defensively, not providing protection for the two centrebacks leaving a gaping hole, although at Stoke it was setplays that undid us rather than this. I sometimes think Brendan's too open with his vision, and talks as if all his ideas are new to fans brought up on a passing game but the point is if this is what we concentrate on we'll do in another manager and that will be a total disaster for us.

If we can see the gap in our defence, Brendan can and will be working on it, he's sticking with it for a reason, let's speculate on that rather than talking about him as if he's a total knob, leave that nonsense to the journalists who want do us harm. We are a side with marauding fullbacks, set up to play exciting attacking football but through the 'inexperience' of FSG we were left with no one in attack. Brendan obviously thought we had a striker in the bag when he agreed to Carroll's loan, that wasn't the time for FSG to play hardball over a few million, it didn't take a talksport genius to see we'd struggle for goals in this situation but at times we've created fantastic chances, it's fixable and will be at the top of Rodger's agenda.

Rafa started the ball rolling, but Rodgers has brought through some fantastic young players into the first team squad with all the advantages and yes disadvantages that brings. If we only look short-term and come out with utter shite like QPR being make or break, we'll fuck up this club for a long time maybe for ever.  Rodger's isn't infallible, no one is  but he is reflective and he'll learn from his mistakes like Rafa does and like the great duo Shanks and Paisley did before him. However he needs more than half a season, even a deadbeat like Alex Ferguson got six or seven seasons before he sorted it out. Rodgers is our chance to break out of midtable mediocrity, with a team playing exciting football, but he'll need support now, when there's a storm around him, not amateur smartarses pointing out his mistakes and pretending he thinks possession is the new goalscoring. It's precisely because  we all care what happens to this club and won't accept mediocrity  that we should be supporting him now. As some very wise Kopites put it, now is the time to be 'Focusing on Supporting our Manager.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2012, 03:06:01 pm by The 92A »
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Offline 007.lankyguy

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2012, 02:38:39 pm »
Perfectly put. Fed up with the people blaming Rodgers for this.
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Offline John C

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2012, 02:43:29 pm »
As some very wise Kopites put it, now is the time to be 'Focusing on Supporting our Manager.
I think it was our very own Neil D mate.

Good post.

Offline john_mac

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Offline Max_powers

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2012, 02:47:34 pm »
Bump. Couldn't have put it better.

Offline redgriffin73

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2012, 02:50:15 pm »
Great OP.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2012, 02:57:11 pm by Pheeny »
Rafa Benitez: "I'll always keep in my heart the good times I've had here, the strong and loyal support of the fans in the tough times and the love from Liverpool. I have no words to thank you enough for all these years and I am very proud to say that I was your manager. Thank you so much once more and always remember: You'll never walk alone."

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2012, 02:53:32 pm »
wonderfully put Albie.

Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2012, 02:55:27 pm »
exactly sadly though the people who need to understand this probably wont even read it.
A world were Liars and Hypocrites are accepted and rewarded and honest people are derided!
Who voted in this lying corrupt bastard anyway

Offline woof

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2012, 02:59:14 pm »
I blame technology. It's made us to be impatient monsters wanting instant success

Offline Trailer_Trash

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2012, 03:01:07 pm »
Couldn't agree more. I don't know why people find it so difficult. Zip it. Support the team, and see where we are at the end of the season. Its that simple.

Offline Kansti

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2012, 03:03:06 pm »
Bump. Thanks for that, and everyone should be reading this.

Offline john_mac

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2012, 03:06:53 pm »
Bump. Thanks for that, and everyone should be reading this.

The thing is, nobody should, it should go without saying. Albie isn't telling everybody about something that happened in the 60s here, he's painting the clear as day picture of what has happened to Liverpool Football club over the past few years, the path that has taken us from the number 1 rated club in Europe mid-table. A defeat at Stoke has not affected that, so much more has.

It should really go without saying
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Offline Barney_Rubble

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2012, 03:20:38 pm »
Yes

87:13

Offline MHLC

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2012, 03:20:56 pm »
Excellent post, Albie. An eloquent reminder to supporters and the club of Santayana's maxim that "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.".

Sacking Rafa was a mistake born out of politics. Sacking Kenny was a mistake born out of FSG's desire to write their own chapter in the clubs history and ignorance of the value supporters hold in winning competitions and getting to finals. Time will tell if they made the right decision, but their lack of support for Rodgers in the summer was distinctly unimpressive.

I've seen some on here (albeit a minority) claim Brendan is a "fraud". Inexperienced in terms of managing big clubs? Yes? A gamble on potential rather than experience? Yes. A fraud? Fuck off with that nonsense.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2012, 03:24:38 pm by MHLC »

Offline Fat Scouser

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2012, 03:22:10 pm »
Great OP and completely correct. But there's been so much in fighting at our club over the last few years, that, in my opinion, we've gone beyond way beyond being the New Newcastle. Civil War, it's the new Liverpool way. I used to laugh at the notion of going down to reclaim the club. I'm sure Brendan won't let that happen. In fact, I think if he's given a bit of time and patience he'll succeed. But I'm not so sure he'll get it, and it might just take a complete implosion to clear out all the bollocks of the last few years.

No doubt I'll be attacked for having the temerity to say it. I even thought long and hard before posting it. Not to dodge a bollocking over a fucking keyboard though. I only had doubts, because I don't want to, and hope it doesn't, derail the thread.

I agree... if Brendan's going to stand any chance of turning the mess of the last few years round, he's going to need every bit of backing he can get from every quarter, including internet forums. Will he get it? Can't see it myself. From the boardroom to the terraces, we've been shooting ourselves for donkies years. Even if it's only in the foot, sooner or later one of them will prove fatal.

Feel free to start with the bollockings. The only thing I'll say to defend meself is, I sincerly hope Brendan proves me wrong.
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Offline Les Willis

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2012, 03:28:32 pm »
Liverpool fans look at our history and think that we should automatically be challenging for the league year in year out and at least competing with United. But teams like Man City and Chelsea have moved the goalposts with their wealthier owners. Man Utd and Arsenal both have larger gates to generate the cash (although Arsenal don't spend any of it!), so we really can't compete financially.

Which leaves us with the rest of the teams. We're effectively competing with teams like Spurs and Newcastle, but realistically any number of Premiership teams in the top ten (and possibly even lower) can push for a top four place (or at least a Europa spot).

Brendan's realistic about this, but some of our supporters aren't.

Offline Samee

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #16 on: December 29, 2012, 03:30:09 pm »
Nailed it.
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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #17 on: December 29, 2012, 03:34:40 pm »
 :thumbup

Offline lgvkarlos

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #18 on: December 29, 2012, 03:34:59 pm »
Great post.
My only worry is that he has no track record.
If results don't improve he will have be very strong to keep his and the players confidence.
Would love Rafa back tomorrow but can't really think of another manager other than him i would want over Rodgers.
The reality is that Rodgers is as raw as a manager as Stirling is as a player, they will both need
time to get to there potential.

Offline john_mac

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #19 on: December 29, 2012, 03:36:09 pm »
Great post.
My only worry is that he has no track record.
If results don't improve he will have be very strong to keep his and the players confidence.
Would love Rafa back tomorrow

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Offline flying red

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #20 on: December 29, 2012, 03:39:33 pm »
Good points in OP but a degree of rose-tinted hindsight. Shanks wasn't 100% idolised and there were times when he was rebuilding that he was doubted by the fans. I remember a 3rd round FA Cup defeat by Watford being a rocky time.

Supporters have always thought they know best and criticised team selections and the manager. The only difference these days is that people talk bollocks in public on forums and Twitter.

Ged, Rafa and Kenny managed to win trophies which restores faith and hope. In the league we've seen four seasons of transition with not much sign of light at the end of the tunnel.

Rodgers has the same problem that Rafa faced in his last season, that Hodgson and Kenny also had – the players on the pitch aren't doing what they've been coached to do with 100% commitment. They don't look like they want it enough.

Rodgers may have a philosophy but in his press interviews he's been inconsistent and has contradicted himself. The 'Being: Liverpool' soap was unflattering in showing some fairly incoherent, boring management speak team talks which take the gloss off his reputation.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2012, 03:41:58 pm by flying red »

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #21 on: December 29, 2012, 03:41:49 pm »
Top OP, but I find it a sad indictment of how 'fans' of this football club have acted that a post like this has to even be made about a Liverpool manager.

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Offline Zeb

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #22 on: December 29, 2012, 03:48:06 pm »
Spot on that.
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Offline MHLC

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #23 on: December 29, 2012, 03:53:55 pm »
I will judge him on results.

It takes an entire club functioning properly to succeed.

Some turned on Benitez because of one seasons results and completely overlooked the wider political problems and how well he'd done previously.

We should be doing better than mid table, but should also recognise the long term effort it took to build a side capable of challenging for the league in 08/09. Les sums it up nicely by pointing out we do not self-generate the level of resources that Utd do. It was a long road that led to building a team containing the likes of Reina, Mascherano, Alonso and Torres, It involved a lot of change,  a lot of players coming in and out and a lot of missed targets.

We're a long way from that level now and it will take someone of equal ability as Benitez to gradually rebuild the side. I doubt the endurance of those who glibly claim to "judge on results".  These are the sort that will be first in line to call for a sacking, expect an immediate transformation, then demand another sacking when it doesn't come to fruition.

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #24 on: December 29, 2012, 04:05:50 pm »
Outstanding post Albie

I worry when people look with a short term view. I wonder what they do at work professionally when any transition or transformation is taking place?

All this "I'll judge him on results". Here's one - should we judge fans on support? For every performance where we know the players have the ability to do better what have you done?

If there was a transfer window for shit support would you be one who was kept or one sold on?
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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #25 on: December 29, 2012, 04:11:44 pm »
He's well supported I think but even if he lost some supporters I don't think it should matter this time.

Rodgers was far, far from being a first choice for a good number of Liverpool supporters. He also has what one might call a very thin and trophyless CV. He was brought in because he is supposed to be a good fit for the rebuilding journey we've embarked on, or so we have been told. I can understand why respected posters are standing up loudly for Rodgers right now, they can smell the undercurrent of frustration growing and know that when it bursts it will be aimed at the manager.
But...

If empty internet sniping and frustration are really powerful enough to once again make our owners change their mind and this time scrap THE plan, one they are supposed to be 110% behind, well then we have problems that pale in significance to yet another change of managers. If they want people to be patient, to support and to keep believing then they should lead by example. So far they haven't. Our owners have already let Rodgers down, supporters haven't. It will not be in our hands but in theirs and considering that he is after all their very first choice I think it would be very fucking rich for them to use some virtual discontent as an alibi to do what they do best - change their mind.

Offline timmyonions

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #26 on: December 29, 2012, 04:15:26 pm »
Brilliant read.

We need stability here,now more than ever.Haven't we not learned at all from the last few years?If we keep chopping and changing then we will end up like Villa.
Brendan has been in the job for about six months now.In my eyes that's no amount of time to judge someone in the managers job.Has he made mistakes? Yes.Will he make more? Yes.He must learn from them.This season should be about him getting his ideas across and building a foundation for a decent challenge next season.We have to support him.Cut him some slack when he does make mistakes.Its our job to make him feel like we're right behind him together as one heading in the same direction.
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Offline Dish shhh

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #27 on: December 29, 2012, 04:19:36 pm »
Top class OP and I agree absolutely with everything you said.  I'm getting increasingly frustrated with posters spounting rubbish about BR's prior record, his tactical naivete etc.  As you've said, if we can see it then so can he but he must be given the time and any available resource to allow him to carry out his work.  I'll happily give BR the next two/three seasons to get it right and nothing he's done has led to me losing the faith that he will get it right.

Knee jerkers must understand the damage that the dissenting voice can cause.  Yes, you can question decisions and tactics etc, but do it in a dignified manner and argue your point thoughtfully to ensure that we remain united as a fan base.  If the fans are divided the club is divided.
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Offline Red Genius

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #28 on: December 29, 2012, 04:21:14 pm »
Oh am i pleased that the majority seem to have some sanity left in their bones and it is only the minority who don't think like this.

It doesn't really matter if those who are jumping on our managers back read this or not, because the majority of them have had the 'talking to' but they just don't get it. It's sad when you want to re-establish the firm footing that serves a club so well only to be underminded by narrow minded and short sighted pillocks within your own fanbase.

Lets keep banging this drum though, because that is what we should be doing 'supporting our manager'
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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #29 on: December 29, 2012, 04:22:34 pm »
Quality post mate.

Time to get behind and show our support to the manager.

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #30 on: December 29, 2012, 04:23:15 pm »
Can I also add that all staff are 100% behind what is written in the opening post.

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #31 on: December 29, 2012, 04:23:40 pm »

All this "I'll judge him on results". Here's one - should we judge fans on support? For every performance where we know the players have the ability to do better what have you done?

If there was a transfer window for shit support would you be one who was kept or one sold on?
You can judge the fans on whatever support you want, but ultimately it's just an exercise in deflecting attention away from poor performances/results, on the field.


Look, the players and manager are supported, we all want to be sitting here, a couple of years down the road, laughing and smiling about the whole thing.

There may be people wanting Rodgers out, that's their business, but the vast, vast majority, want us to continue on, with Rodgers in charge, as he deserves more time. There seems to be this mentality on here lately, that the entire fan base has turned on Rodgers, and are demanding he collect his belongings, and head for the door, and that it's just a few noble and loyal souls, left defending him.

Ultimately, results are needed, and it's perfectly natural for people to express concerns, after a period of poor results/performances.

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #32 on: December 29, 2012, 04:24:23 pm »
Great post 92A, thanks for taking the time.

Offline Cato

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #33 on: December 29, 2012, 04:25:48 pm »
Absolutely spot on. Brought a tear to my eye, as a matter of fact.
Let's be supporters, not fans who like to play Football Manager. I'm sick of reading criticism in the threads and even more sick of hearing it around me at the match. Focus on support is bang on.
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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #34 on: December 29, 2012, 04:25:56 pm »
ill support him but he needs to get results.
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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #35 on: December 29, 2012, 04:34:01 pm »
You can judge the fans on whatever support you want, but ultimately it's just an exercise in deflecting attention away from poor performances/results, on the field.


Look, the players and manager are supported, we all want to be sitting here, a couple of years down the road, laughing and smiling about the whole thing.

There may be people wanting Rodgers out, that's their business, but the vast, vast majority, want us to continue on, with Rodgers in charge, as he deserves more time. There seems to be this mentality on here lately, that the entire fan base has turned on Rodgers, and are demanding he collect his belongings, and head for the door, and that it's just a few noble and loyal souls, left defending him.

Ultimately, results are needed, and it's perfectly natural for people to express concerns, after a period of poor results/performances.

Agree. Expressing concern for results should not be confused with not backing the manager or calling for his head. Pretty sure everyone on here want him to succeed. It is OUR team after all. We've been unlucky a few times this season. We could/should have been a lot higher up, but there haven't been too many games where we've been out-thought tactically. And that's to his credit.

P.S. There's a photo doing rounds on Facebook alleging that someone's said "Rodgers Out" on the walls of Melwood. Surely not?
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Offline Red Genius

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #36 on: December 29, 2012, 04:35:00 pm »
ill support him but he needs to get results.

But do you believe that with more time, practice on the training ground, time with the youngsters developing them and investment in the types of players that will suit the system better, the results will come?

Because thats the crux of it isn't it... instant gratification over some understanding that it will take a few more transfer windows and hard work on the training pitches with our relatively young group of players before we see the type of consistency you're expecting.
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Offline alvaro

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #37 on: December 29, 2012, 04:35:37 pm »
Good post.

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #38 on: December 29, 2012, 04:35:38 pm »
Is questioning the manager being a disloyal, knee jerking, post 2005, day tripper moron? No, although I expect some are. I support Brendan simply because he's Liverpool's manager, but I do not think he's good enough. I hope I'm wrong and he brings us loads of success, but from what I've seen so far he looks shaken by the job he's taken on and is struggling to cope with it. I have ticket for the game tomorrow and will give the team and Brendan all the support I can, but that doesn't mean  I am blind to his limitations and fear for my club. I would have Rafa back anytime, but I doubt that will ever happen.

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #39 on: December 29, 2012, 04:38:21 pm »
You can judge the fans on whatever support you want, but ultimately it's just an exercise in deflecting attention away from poor performances/results, on the field.


Look, the players and manager are supported, we all want to be sitting here, a couple of years down the road, laughing and smiling about the whole thing.

There may be people wanting Rodgers out, that's their business, but the vast, vast majority, want us to continue on, with Rodgers in charge, as he deserves more time. There seems to be this mentality on here lately, that the entire fan base has turned on Rodgers, and are demanding he collect his belongings, and head for the door, and that it's just a few noble and loyal souls, left defending him.

Ultimately, results are needed, and it's perfectly natural for people to express concerns, after a period of poor results/performances.

But then same can be argued that we're deflecting attention from the underbelly of shit fans?  :D

Judging our manager on results alone is therefore a selective bias as would be level of support of fans. The OP as I understand it is about supporting our manager. I don't disagree with the natural response you've stated as it is a very human one and I would be a hypocrite if I even attempted to state otherwise

The pitch performance changes to bring wins rather than draws/losses though won't come around by the sniping and somewhat petty minority who thing Brendan Rodgers should be sent his marching orders

Just clicked on the main board and my virus scanner came back with this

"When we visited this site, we found it exhibited one or more risky behaviors."


:lmao

Strip his knighthood https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/47770