Topic: Aston seVilla 2 - Liverpool 1 (Cloud Cuckoo-land)

[robgomm]

put him in a room with Savage and lock the door.

Don't do that, imagine the offspring.

[robgomm]

Not so much form, I would say fitness. It will take a while for him to get back to his former self after those run of injuries. Not much left to play for this season, I hope we put him in full rehabilitation mode for next season. He doesn't need to be risked for every match or the full 90 minutes.

There was an article on StatsBomb that suggests there isn't a great difference in his level and I'd agree with you, it's perhaps sharpness. But there is no stat we have that tells you whether he's lost a bit of pace. Article is here anyway: http://statsbomb.com/2015/04/what-is-wrong-with-daniel-sturridge/

[farawayred]

put him in a room with Savage and lock the door.

Did Savage get only one red card in his career? I seem to recall a stupid fact like that...

[L666KOP]

Did Savage get only one red card in his career? I seem to recall a stupid fact like that...

He should have been red carded at KO every match just for daring to play with that hairstyle.

[farawayred]

He should have been red carded at KO every match just for daring to play with that hairstyle.

You mean Prince Charming?

     

[LFCDynamic]

 

[King_doggerel]

out played by jack fucking grealish.

shithouses

[Capitan Futuro]

On the plus side; I think we can afford to buy Villa's starting XI in the summer. FA Cup 2016 here we come #wecomenottoplay

[juan1001]

OK, but knowing you have a striker that is weaker than a dunked biscuit, then buying what we did and then not playing to their strengths (if they have any  ), something is obviously wrong.
Come on PoP, you know it, you want to admit it, let it out PoP, you'll feel better 

He'll never fault Rodgers. I'm starting to think he may be his dad.

[PhaseOfPlay]

He'll never fault Rodgers. I'm starting to think he may be his dad.

I think he overthinks it. But he overthinks it in the big games. By comparison, Rafa would sometimes overthink things in the run-of-the-mill lower table games, rather than letting the players just go for it. It's not an uncommon problem. But the difference is, though, that Rafa did just enough thinking for the big games, but also stuck to his plan for most of it - his ideals were the same in every game. Rodgers over thinks the big games, then goes against his best practices, then changes what wasn't going to work in the first place, but doesn't want to use a sub to do so, then some players get confused by their new roles, there is no cohesion, and we end up giving the game to the other team from the start. I think he's just too fearful of the result, rather than playing straight up, hell or high water football that we know can smash even the biggest teams into submission

More slow progression?

Why not just give Rodgers two top level strikers to flat-track bully our way to contention again. That way we'd be in another challenge sooner.

Rodgers problems are firmly in the big knockout or last-chance-saloon games. They aren't in league campaigns, really. He knows how to negotiate a league, even with his hands tied behind his back somewhat (injuries, transfer set up). What he hasn't figured out is one-off big games. All criticism should be contained to that arena, because his league ability is sound. But in crunch games, he is as flawed as can be, going by the last 3 years. It's never a big thing, either. We go out by the odd goal, mostly. But we go out with a whimper rather than a bang.

I haven't had enough, but that bit is the key to it. He overthinks it. He has a way of playing, it works well, so do that, in every single game. Flip-flopping between pressing attacks and containment with defensive possession like that will eventually tell the players that you don't believe in your own ideas. For me, now, I believe that his ideas are absolutely sound. But he doesn't. And that's what's putting us out of cups and European competitions. HE doesn't believe in them.

There's no answer to that. Set up wrong from the start. Then changed to make it worse.

There are few bigger defenders of Rodgers on here than me, but that's all on him. And quite frankly, it's indefensible at this stage. It's not about big teams, because he's beaten big teams. It's about big games. When there's something on the line, he gives up the game before it starts. 3 years in, and it hasn't really changed. It's very sad, painful and frustrating to see.

The clock, I think, is now ticking.

Good game, but why switch it up and play to our weakness against Benteke? And playing the ball around the back from the kick-off just hands initiative to the other team. It was 5 minutes after kickoff before Sterling touched the ball. There is a time for purism. A semi-final isn't it. Gerrard is more or less out of the game, which is tough to watch. Rodgers needs to figure out what way to approach the attack for the second half, because we've had 1 shot on target in 45 minutes. If we concede territory again, then I don't see us getting through this. He has to impose the game on Villa, not the other way around. Yet again in a big cup game, we're conceding the ball to the other team and the territory by using our defenders more than our forwards. It's becoming a massively flawed pattern at this point.

That's just from the past two days.

You muppet.

[Twelfth Man]

That's just from the past two days.

You muppet.

Brendan's father Malachy was a painter and decorator...
If he is, he sure knows a thing or two about football...

[RideTheWalrus]

Nice to see Benteke back in form, too.

[kcbworth]

Nice to see Benteke back in form, too.

Sure it's... wonderful 

[Kenny's Jacket]

Ah well ok. Well it was going to be balotelli wasn't it

He was the Suarez replacement

Well yeah and know -  Suarez was our main Striker, what we did was promote Sturridge to Main Striker then replace Sturridge with Mario -  We should have looked to get in someone who was seen as at least Sturridge equal. 

[kcbworth]

Well yeah and know -  Suarez was our main Striker, what we did was promote Sturridge to Main Striker then replace Sturridge with Mario -  We should have looked to get in someone who was seen as at least Sturridge equal. 

Finally! I've only said this about a million times, I swear this is the first time I've independently heard someone say the same thing. And it's so fucking obvious

And I think saying Mario was here to take Sturridge's place as 2nd striker in the team - may sometimes start, sometimes not - can just about be understood.

[naka]

That's just from the past two days.

You muppet.

Reading those quotes POP, do u really think BR should get another year,
I appreciate your analysis of the games etc so do you see us progressing under him or would you  cut your losses.

[spider-neil]

Chances of Sturridge being fit next season?

We should now view Sturridge as a rotation striker and manage the amount of time he plays.
Obviously we need strikers who know where the back of the net is but it is important we have strikers who can play in our system. Having 3 strikers the manager doesn't trust is unacceptable.

[spider-neil]

I think Brendan will get another year if for no other reason than it will be too expensive to get rid of him.

[rushyman]

Well yeah and know -  Suarez was our main Striker, what we did was promote Sturridge to Main Striker then replace Sturridge with Mario -  We should have looked to get in someone who was seen as at least Sturridge equal.

Here's where it comes back to what I've been saying

We did try. Sanchez

He simply didn't want to come

[redrockydennis]

I think Brendan will get another year if for no other reason than it will be too expensive to get rid of him.

why? they splash the cash and spend over the odds for useless players, paying off a manager won't hurt.

[stockdam]

I can't believe the comments about getting rid of Rodgers. Yes he had two great strikers in form last year but the style of football we played was 2nd to none. We refound most of this style earlier this year and once again we were playing exciting football.

Do people forget this? Do you want to go back to turgid football as you don't know what you'll get.

Yes we are all hurting seeing the team lose its way but wind back two months and watch some of the football we played when our back three were gelling and Mignolet regained his form.

Rodgers has made mistakes but the football that we have been playing at times was far better to watch than any other team.......including City and Chelsea who had way more money.

[Peabee]

Would these people calling for Rodgers to go be saying the same if Klopp wasn't available this summer, or is it just a desire to see someone like Klopp at the club?

[kcbworth]

Would these people calling for Rodgers to go be saying the same if Klopp wasn't available this summer, or is it just a desire to see someone like Klopp at the club?

I think it's mainly because of Klopp (on top of a small but growing sense of doubt about Rodgers)

[CLOCKSPEED]

Would these people calling for Rodgers to go be saying the same if Klopp wasn't available this summer, or is it just a desire to see someone like Klopp at the club?

Happy enough for BR to stay however if Klopp willing to come then in a heartbeat we could have the type of manager we need for the next 5 years. Also he knows the german market/players and they currently producing a number of above average players per year.

[PhaseOfPlay]

Happy enough for BR to stay however if Klopp willing to come then in a heartbeat we could have the type of manager we need for the next 5 years. Also he knows the german market/players and they currently producing a number of above average players per year.

I think we'd actually see some duds in that case, because he doesn't scout or buy the players for Dortmund. If given the brief to find value German players, we could, in that situation, end up with a few players not ready for the Premier League.

[PhaseOfPlay]

Reading those quotes POP, do u really think BR should get another year,
I appreciate your analysis of the games etc so do you see us progressing under him or would you  cut your losses.

I see us progressing under him in the league, for sure. He's great at league play, because he understands the "flat-track bully" approach that saw so many titles under Ferguson for United.

But in cups and Europe, the trend is disturbing for giving the game to the opposition. He really has to stop that. If given another season, and if we get to the last Euro game and need a win, and he has the team sit back again, then I would be very concerned for his immediate future, because that would mean he is not learning from his mistakes.

[PaulD]

POP
Have to say I am surprised by your last post.
With your 'coach' hat on - what would you say was the players view of the Manager?
Belief?

[bodhisattva]

I see us progressing under him in the league, for sure. He's great at league play, because he understands the "flat-track bully" approach that saw so many titles under Ferguson for United.

But in cups and Europe, the trend is disturbing for giving the game to the opposition. He really has to stop that. If given another season, and if we get to the last Euro game and need a win, and he has the team sit back again, then I would be very concerned for his immediate future, because that would mean he is not learning from his mistakes.

the bit that confuses me cos every time we lose one of those games where we sit back and try and play a more passive counter attacking game Rodgers without fail will say we weren't aggressive enough, didin't press high enough, were too passive etc etc etc.. so which is it?? is he instructing the team to play this way or isn't he?? his comments suggest otherwise but i can't believe he tells the team to play at a high tempo and then we just don't do it. Maybe its personnel related and some players just aren't capable of doing it well and then the whole thing falls apart, maybe we don't know how to impose ourselves on games when we don't start quickly but i agree this is the biggest question mark over Rodgers for me. When we play that high energy attacking game we can be very good, now yes we risk losing playing that way but the results when we're more cautious are terrible so what do we have to lose??

[PhaseOfPlay]

POP
Have to say I am surprised by your last post.
With your 'coach' hat on - what would you say was the players view of the Manager?
Belief?

I would say that there might be a small minority who now are starting to doubt him as a "winner". But the majority probably see him as a great coach on the field. My worry is that he's too pally with the players, or the senior ones at least. When a coach gets too close to players, it forms cliques, and cliques kill teams. That's my concern on that score.

[Mutton Geoff]

I would say that there might be a small minority who now are starting to doubt him as a "winner". But the majority probably see him as a great coach on the field. My worry is that he's too pally with the players, or the senior ones at least. When a coach gets too close to players, it forms cliques, and cliques kill teams. That's my concern on that score.

so do you think next season without  most of these senior players could be more his team then?

[PhaseOfPlay]

so do you think next season without  most of these senior players could be more his team then?

Could be, Geoff. Could be. Although I think that managers that come from a long youth development background tend to be better managers for young players than for experienced ones - in other words, they are more inclined to say "no" to a young player than to someone who has done more than them in the game as players.

[Sangria]

put him in a room with Savage and lock the door.

I wouldn't mind adding a snidey bastard like Savage to our current midfield squad. Anyone who can consistently get up the nose of the other team without getting sent off.

[robgomm]

I think we'd actually see some duds in that case, because he doesn't scout or buy the players for Dortmund. If given the brief to find value German players, we could, in that situation, end up with a few players not ready for the Premier League.

This is something not mentioned much in the dreaming about Klopp - he was part, or just about still is part, of a greater whole. They have a set up which has worked for them.

[kcbworth]

This is something not mentioned much in the dreaming about Klopp - he was part, or just about still is part, of a greater whole. They have a set up which has worked for them.

Devils advocate... isnt that exactly what the club wants?

[robgomm]

Devils advocate... isnt that exactly what the club wants?

I would think so but the TC set up is not a success, or at least it's a very qualified success. Just changing coach does not change the set up. If anything we'd be far better off if they took a step back and changed the committee rather than the coach.

[PhaseOfPlay]

Devils advocate... isnt that exactly what the club wants?

Yep, but Dortmund's set-up is based around football people making football decisions. An ex-international player running a traditional set of scouts who go to games to scout players in the lower divisions and lesser leagues. We don't have that. They have a top-down scouting system. We have a sideways-on scouting system. Too many people want, and have, their say in our transfer business.

[Stateside Red]

Yep, but Dortmund's set-up is based around football people making football decisions. An ex-international player running a traditional set of scouts who go to games to scout players in the lower divisions and lesser leagues. We don't have that. They have a top-down scouting system. We have a sideways-on scouting system. Too many people want, and have, their say in our transfer business.

Really? By sideways do you mean we're primarily looking at the top leagues around the world?

[PhaseOfPlay]

Really? By sideways do you mean we're primarily looking at the top leagues around the world?

By sideways-on I mean that we have many voices with the same amount of say in the matter. Instead of the top-down system were Zorc tells his scouts what to look for and how and where. Their scouting system is managed downwards. Ours is managed across.

[Stateside Red]

By sideways-on I mean that we have many voices with the same amount of say in the matter. Instead of the top-down system were Zorc tells his scouts what to look for and how and where. Their scouting system is managed downwards. Ours is managed across.

Ah ... well I imagine or at least hope our scouting system is very similar to theirs except for the committee at the top where the transfer decisions are made and it all goes wrong.

[Coolie High]

Happy enough for BR to stay however if Klopp willing to come then in a heartbeat we could have the type of manager we need for the next 5 years. Also he knows the german market/players and they currently producing a number of above average players per year.

Yet Klopps last transfer window was dreadful.