Author Topic: A Message to John Henry  (Read 119452 times)

Offline rastaferio

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Re: A Message to John Henry
« Reply #1240 on: January 6, 2011, 09:56:43 pm »


Its about time someone comes out with a solid head on their shoulders. There are too many knee jerk reactions, without taking a look at the big picture, appearing on these boards. They really bog down competent and well thought out discussion. Not to mention irritate those that take the time to actually think before they act. Cheers mate.

Offline Kahuna{=}Berger

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Re: A Message to John Henry
« Reply #1241 on: January 6, 2011, 10:02:02 pm »
To think of all the hard work that some people put into the campaigns as well.
Fucking sickens me mate..

Ah, sure at least it kept people busy for a bit Terry. Something to do like!

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Re: A Message to John Henry
« Reply #1242 on: January 6, 2011, 10:43:38 pm »
[Furthermore, even from a Transfer Market standpoint, Henry/NESV are going to HAVE to say something about the managerial situation ASAP.  Comolli is trying to get talent in here at the First Team level and also into the Academy.  He knows that any Liverpool January transfer target isn't going to want to go here if they were uncertain about what type of system they were going into.

Excellent long post. I kept this one portion above, because on this one point my opinion has shifted in the last few days. I'm all for patience, and like you, I've seen their great work with the Red Sox so I'm positive about Liverpool's longterm prospects. However...

I recently read a book called "The Tipping Point - How Little Things Can Make A Big Difference" by Malcolm Gladwell.  Fascinating read. Well, we're at a tipping point now. I think waiting any longer is a mistake. The fan base has gone through hell, and it is near breaking point. It can't take a relegation fight, or some other traumatic incident. With a more stable club, we'd probably be able to hold firm for a while and wait for the perfect time to grab a new manager. But we're not in that situation. The 'patient' has been in an accident, is bleeding from severe wounds, and can't wait around for the heart surgeon to fly in from South Africa. The patient needs triage - NOW.  We can get a specialist later.  Now it's all about stopping the bleeding with some sort of immediate temporary solution, as imperfect as it may be.   
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Offline Ski

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Re: A Message to John Henry
« Reply #1243 on: January 6, 2011, 11:02:47 pm »
Enough already! All these pundits, ex players, legends even, anon who works in the press/media giving their backing to Roy. Oh it's not his team, he needs time, he needs backing, he's a good manager, he was left shite by the previous manager, he walked into an unstable club.

No! Fuck off. It's all bullshit. Roy isnt the man for the job. He never was!!

Why are they all so quick to rally round him? What has he done to deserve such backing?

Last year it was Rafa. This year it's the players. Make your fucking mind up!!

I have been and am fucking livid that we paid £6m to kick out one of the best managers in the world today and we paid Fulham to get Roy. Absolute madness!

What are NESV hoping to achieve by keeping him. A fucking blind donkey couldn't be worse so I'm really really curious as to the reasons that they think we're better off keeping him.

There are so many negative points in keeping him (I'm too pissed to go into the now but we all know them). Have been checking all day for the news that he has finally gone. With each day that passes I lose more and more respect for him that he's not man enough to hold his hands up and admit that this job is too big for him despite what he thinks. I find it difficult and excruciating that after every defeat he comes out and talks complete bollocks (that's when hes not blatantly lying or contradicting what he's said previously).

I make no apologies for my rant and vow to continue till he's gone. If I get banned for saying how I feel so be it.

If you have any class or dignity Roy just fucking go!!!!!!!
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Offline Johnny C

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Re: A Message to John Henry
« Reply #1244 on: January 6, 2011, 11:37:08 pm »
I recently read a book called "The Tipping Point - How Little Things Can Make A Big Difference" by Malcolm Gladwell.  Fascinating read. Well, we're at a tipping point now. I think waiting any longer is a mistake. The fan base has gone through hell, and it is near breaking point. It can't take a relegation fight, or some other traumatic incident. With a more stable club, we'd probably be able to hold firm for a while and wait for the perfect time to grab a new manager. But we're not in that   situation. The 'patient' has been in an accident, is bleeding from severe wounds, and can't wait around for the heart surgeon to fly in from South Africa. The patient needs triage - NOW.  We can get a specialist later. Now it's all about stopping the bleeding with some sort of immediate temporary solution, as imperfect as it may be.   
Tipping Point is indeed a good read.

I totally agree regarding the timing.  I still think we see something about Hodgson and a new manager before the end of this week.
 
Again, i think that probably for a host of reasons (mostly financial for either Hodgson's contract or the new manager's at their current club) that Henry/NESV were hoping to delay Hodgson's sacking for another week, but the time has come even if it means having Rodolfo Borrell in charge for a game or two (not a bad idea, although Kenny would be the choice to unite everyone even if it was @OT).
 
Keep in mind that THIS JOB of all Hodgson's jobs is supposed to be his big payday.  Like Carragher's apparently was, I am sure Hodgson's contract is set-up with loads of clauses.  I wouldn't be surprised in the least if it might take a day or two to hammer out details with Hodgson's agent and the Club's attorneys and to make concessions on different parts of his contract.  Hopefully Day 1 in that process was today.
 
 
« Last Edit: January 6, 2011, 11:38:56 pm by Johnny C »

Offline Samee

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Re: A Message to John Henry
« Reply #1245 on: January 6, 2011, 11:51:48 pm »
I get the strong sense that even as long ago as when Comolli came in that NESV were going to replace Hodgson during this transfer window, but that they may have to move a little sooner than they anticipated.

I have been reading on this forum and others that some people are now questioning Henry, Comolli & NESV and their ability to understand Sports. In a word that's "ridiculous".

I can understand why people are saying this...

    (1) Everyone including Paul Konchesky's dear ol' mum knows that Hodgson is a deadman walking
    (2) We haven't heard anything out of Henry/Comolli/NESV since November 15th
    (3) We just spent half a decade with completely absent owners, guys who liked it that way and didn't give a damn

...but IMO people are getting a little crazy, and some downright certifiable.


Do I want Hodgson here...? Absolutely not. But I also want the right person to replace him (or at a minimum someone who can take us to the next few steps back up the ladder).

IMO, NESV believe this too... How can they not. I just think that they were hoping for another week or so before they had to make a move.


For what it's worth, here are just a few points regarding my take on all this...


IMO this is just the process that they are going through with this new Club structure.

It seems that only a few have caught on that by not coming out and supporting Hodgson that Henry, Comolli & NESV are actually communicating to the supporters their feelings about the situation.

The last time we verbally heard from Henry he said the following on Nov 15th:
Did Henry fully come out and support the manager...? Not even close. But he certainly stood up for him.  In a non-obvious way he was conveying to all the Liverpool supporters that the problems at the Club are much bigger than the manager or any under-performing players. Look no further than the dismissal of the Head Scout last week for proof of that.


Did Henry absolve Hodgson...?  No.  Did he say Hodgson is his guy for the remainder of the season...?   No.  But he may have (1) bought Comolli more time to evaluate Hodgson (a guy who @ the time Comolli had only worked with for 12 days) and (2) bought Comolli more time to lock in a new manager.


IMO the collective lack of support for Hodgson from the executives (Henry, Werner, Comolli, Dalglish, etc...) is ABSOLUTELY DEAFENING.  It speaks volumes of what these guys' position is with the manager.


From following Henry & NESV in Boston over the years, you can tell that these guys totally get sports club management, they understand what it takes to win championships and be in contention almost every single year, and they have no problem making tough decisions or even easy ones like firing a vastly under-performing employee (i.e. Hodgson).  But they aren't ones to fly off the handle.  They aren't ones to communicate via the press every week.

You'd have to be pretty stupid to live on Planet Earth and not to know that Hodgson needs to be relieved from his post ASAP, and it's hard for me to believe that this group of guys are stupid.


For everyone that is saying "well NESV haven't proved or done anything yet, except that they can talk a good game"...  Gimme a break:
  • Within 1 week they were meeting with fans & supporter groups & putting a face on their ownership
  • Within 2 weeks they completely started changing the entire Club's structure....  one that has been in full out ROT for the past 20+ years.  No easy task even when taking over the best run companies with the best employees.
  • Brought in a DOF role to the Club, and in doing so changed the power structure of the Club
  • Changed the communication structure of the Club (don't under estimate how difficult this is)
  • Laid down the law with the Academy & the Scouts, so we know where the new power lays there
  • Got rid of a failing Head Scout (IMO expect a lot more changes in the scouting structure)
  • Not once but twice calmed the fans down, but in doing so asked for results on the pitch and in the locker room
  • Made it such that kids now go to European games for free
Quite a list in just over 2 months of ownership.

I am not sure what people expected/expect.  When Henry made those Nov 15th statements Comolli had been working for the 1st time with Hodgson for a whopping 12 days.  Any good manager of a business would tell you that they would need more time than 12 days to do due diligence on an employee (i.e. Hodgson).

IMO, the timing was always going to be now.  Not November.  Not December.  But from Boxing Day onwards.


Like Soxfan I am a big fan of this ownership group.  They brought a championship to Boston after 86 years of finishing 2nd.  2 entire generations of my family came and went without seeing a trophy being lifted.  So I have seen what they can do not only on the playing field, but also in the community.  I see it every year.  Furthermore, I see what these guys can do outside of NESV, as the firm I work for competes with many of the NESV partners in our day jobs, so I know how they handle themselves in their other businesses.

I don't have rose colored glasses on when I assess their work.  I base it on (1) what they have done/do and (2) how they have conducted themselves in accomplishing it.  RESULTS and CHARACTER.

As it turns out they have won more hardware in 8 years of Sports ownership (if you count divisional championships & wildcard berths), than Liverpool FC have won in the past 20 (even if you include fluff things like the Super Cup).  Actually more if you want to include NESV's auto-racing team.  RESULTS...

Furthermore, look down that list of NESV partners and check out where they work and how they made their respective fortunes...  There is one underlying commonality between all of them...  They ALL, to a man, are INFORMATION FREAKS.  Their life's blood depends on it.  So, I find it difficult to believe that they haven't known what has been going on here for months and months and months.


Personally I wouldn't be surprised in the least if they knew Hodgson wasn't their guy from even before they purchased the team, but that they just wanted Comolli to make sure and do his due diligence on the First Team Manager the same way that he did his due diligence on the Liverpool Scouting System.  These guys always have a plan.  They did in Boston circa 2002 when they bought the club, named a new DOF-equivalent a month later and then sacked the existing manager 2 months after that (sound familiar).


If people are going to not trust this ownership/management or treat them with an arms-length approach, I can respect that, especially considering everything that we have gone through under Hicks/GG for the past half decade.

But don't say that these guys don't get Sports. Don't say that these guys haven't been informed or aren't informed.  And don't say that these guys haven't done anything yet at changing this Club.  Those arguments hold no water.

Anyway...


Why haven't they sacked Hodgson since Boxing Day...?  Who knows...  But here's a list that makes complete sense to me :
  • Maybe they thought that they would be able to wait another week and introduce a new manager and a new CEO at the same time
  • Maybe the managers that they have been targeting for a few months  weren't in a position to leave their respective clubs before mid-January
  • Maybe there is some sort of item in Hodgson's contract stating that if he was relieved of his duties prior to Jan 15th  (2 Saturdays from now, which is halfway through the transfer window) that he would get some sick amount of money (which considering the items in Carragher's contract that kicked in during the ownership change, it wouldn't surprise me if there is something like this)
  • Maybe they have currently agreed terms with another manager, but he has to wait around until a set date in January to receive some sort of payout from his existing club (it happens in other professions so I am assuming it happens in this one, too), so they have to stay mum
Still...   All those potential reasons don't explain why they haven't named an interim manager for a few weeks...  But who knows... maybe Kenny has indicated that he doesn't want it anymore and maybe like the former Head of Scouting just last week, Sammy Lee's time is up @ the club, too.


Regardless, Hodgson is a deadman walking...  We all know it.  Hodgson knows it.  And you can bet our owners & Comolli have known for a while, too.

If you followed other managers @ big clubs who have gotten the sack this past month (i.e. Rafa), you know that it might take a day or two to hammer out details with the various attorneys before you announce that they have been sacked.  I see this situation as the same way.

He'll be gone by the end of the week.


For what it's worth...
If Liverpool's good fortunes were a public stock I would be backing the truck up and piling it away.  Our good fortunes are a home-run.  Things were @ their bleakest under Hicks&GG this summer & early fall.  We turned the corner as a Club months ago...  Big structural changes have already taken place.  This on-the-pitch downturn is temporary and is nothing more than a great opportunity for us.


Furthermore, even from a Transfer Market standpoint, Henry/NESV are going to HAVE to say something about the managerial situation ASAP.  Comolli is trying to get talent in here at the First Team level and also into the Academy.  He knows that any Liverpool January transfer target isn't going to want to go here if they were uncertain about what type of system they were going into.


And if in the very very VERY REMOTE chance that Henry/Werner/Comolli come out in support of Hodgson until the end of the season, then I will understand that regardless how much I disagree with the decision that he'll be here until then. That doesn't mean I or anyone else is going to sing his name @ 11th Street Bar in NYC or in The Kop, it just means that I'll continue to back this Club & Team during his management.


EDIT:  And for what it's worth, I hope someone removes that "Hodgson Out" graffiti from Melwood. IMO, that's completely over-the-line and not what most of us expect from 99% of the supporters, but yet that's the stuff that is plastered all over the world media and the stuff by which other supporters are now defining us.

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Offline Brave Lee Flea

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Re: A Message to John Henry
« Reply #1246 on: January 6, 2011, 11:52:47 pm »
A great post Johnny C.

You clearly have a great deal of trust in FSG where most of us have nothing at all to go on. I think it's understandable that some of us feel the way we do, especially after H&G. Many of us are not likely to offer trust upfront. We've been bitten once and that trust has to be earned. You're lucky perhaps in that they have already earned your trust, so you can see things differently.

The rest of us hope to see FSG address what we see as a pressing and immediate concern within a reasonable time-frame. Of course what is "reasonable" is a very subjective thing.

It is my belief that it is no longer reasonable that Roy Hodgson finds himself in employment. However I am reassured by your post and it does make me feel more optimistic than I did before reading it.

It was not subjective when I pointed out that attendances are falling. That's a fact. I don't have any proof that sales of merchandise are down but given that there are less people turning up on match days it's a safe bet. If nothing changes attendances are likely to get worse rather than better depriving the club of potentially millions of pounds ... and for what? To keep the worst manager we have *ever* had in a job.

It's clear that Roy has run out of ideas; he only ever followed the same formula he tried at every other club and it hasn't worked. He has no original ideas of his own to try because he lacks a genuine understanding of the game. So it's not going to get better and if it gets worse then there really is a danger of people losing faith in FSG and the relationship breaking down before it's begun. You can see the signs already; it's what your post is railing against.

However if there's one area I do believe FSG are good at it's the business side of things. They won't want to see their investment wasted but perhaps it was a mistake when they stated that they know nothing about soccer; it worries me and it probably worries other people.

Not because I don't think they can learn but because I can't see who they have around them offering good, impartial, agenda-free advice that they can learn from apart from Kenny. And even there's a problem because Kenny threw his hat into the ring in the summer, so while *we* trust Kenny to put the club ahead of his own interests how do FSG know to do that? Everybody else whispering into their ears has an agenda that is largely driven by defending their own role in how the club got into this mess in the first place.

So yes, it would reassure me hugely to see them take the axe to Roy. I'm not asking them for quick fixes to any other aspect of the club, but they need to do this.

I don't think I can accept your assurances that he'll be gone by the end of the week. All of the arguments you put forward for why FSG haven't acted before January 15th could equally be applied to the end of the season. What is the significance of the mid-point in the transfer window? Unless I'm missing something it seems like a date you've plucked randomly out of the air.

Nonetheless I think you and other people who have a longer acquaintance with FSG should post more often. If you are so positive about FSG and can share your experiences of them then perhaps you can help persuade and educate other to your viewpoint. After all that's what this forum is for, no?
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Offline Red an White Tea Party

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Re: A Message to John Henry
« Reply #1247 on: January 7, 2011, 01:31:40 am »
Interesting perspective. Thanks for taking the time. Rome was not built in a day. And I hear Milton keynes took all afternoon.
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Offline smurfinaus

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Re: A Message to John Henry
« Reply #1248 on: January 7, 2011, 01:40:20 am »
Great post Johnny C :)
The bit that bothers me like you indicated is they have so far refused to appoint a caretaker manager of any description - any ideas why?. Surely a caretaker (even if it isnt Kenny) would do a better job at the least for the interim (and not to say the least molify the fanbase).

Offline Ramon

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Re: A Message to John Henry
« Reply #1249 on: January 7, 2011, 01:49:07 am »
Emphatically signed.
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Offline MikkeB

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Re: A Message to John Henry
« Reply #1250 on: January 7, 2011, 01:51:37 am »
I was thinking about what J Henry said to VDM asking whether he liked Benitez. And the silence around the club at the moment seemed to present the question of who FSG would consider their longterm coach e.i not epstien,  but a Francona type. Either J henry is smart and has sussed that Benitez might be the only candidate he could rely on longterm, credentials and methodology, (with the right financial backing.) and is looking for a similar candidate but cannot find one. Or feels that reinstating him as manager now would be too divisive among press and fans so is considering the correct approach. If i were Henry, and i looked at Liverpool's recent history, and also at managers across the board, statistically he would be a strong candidate in many ways that it could not be ignored. I reach the conclusion that either this is the issue, or maybe FSG are not the owners i thought they were, and they'd be taking the advice of Purslow and others.

Offline Jake

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Re: A Message to John Henry
« Reply #1251 on: January 7, 2011, 01:57:04 am »
[snip]

What a post. Amazing mate

I like the sense of optimism that you have, and hope it can rub off a little bit. Ideally Roy would be out this instant, but he's not and I like the way you've come to live with it. How long would your patience last though? Or is that an unanswerable question?
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Re: A Message to John Henry
« Reply #1252 on: January 7, 2011, 02:03:53 am »
I was thinking about what J Henry said to VDM asking whether he liked Benitez. And the silence around the club at the moment seemed to present the question of who FSG would consider their longterm coach e.i not epstien,  but a Francona type. Either J henry is smart and has sussed that Benitez might be the only candidate he could rely on longterm, credentials and methodology, (with the right financial backing.) and is looking for a similar candidate but cannot find one. Or feels that reinstating him as manager now would be too divisive among press and fans so is considering the correct approach. If i were Henry, and i looked at Liverpool's recent history, and also at managers across the board, statistically he would be a strong candidate in many ways that it could not be ignored. I reach the conclusion that either this is the issue, or maybe FSG are not the owners i thought they were, and they'd be taking the advice of Purslow and others.

sorry but when was this?
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Offline SmithdownAndy

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Re: A Message to John Henry
« Reply #1253 on: January 7, 2011, 02:15:41 am »
I was thinking about what J Henry said to VDM asking whether he liked Benitez. And the silence around the club at the moment seemed to present the question of who FSG would consider their longterm coach e.i not epstien,  but a Francona type. Either J henry is smart and has sussed that Benitez might be the only candidate he could rely on longterm, credentials and methodology, (with the right financial backing.) and is looking for a similar candidate but cannot find one. Or feels that reinstating him as manager now would be too divisive among press and fans so is considering the correct approach. If i were Henry, and i looked at Liverpool's recent history, and also at managers across the board, statistically he would be a strong candidate in many ways that it could not be ignored. I reach the conclusion that either this is the issue, or maybe FSG are not the owners i thought they were, and they'd be taking the advice of Purslow and others.
No slightly wrong, he asked what our thoughts were about Benitez, we left him in no doubt that we thought he was a top quality manager. I think the 3 of us were slightly taken aback at the time as to why he would ask that seeing's Rafa was no longer with the club, read into it what you will, your guess is as good as mine but I think it's pretty telling.

To answer you Hitman is was the morning after the takeover when we met him at Anfield.
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Offline Gainsbarre

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Re: A Message to John Henry
« Reply #1254 on: January 7, 2011, 02:19:33 am »
Bring him back, John... !
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Offline MikkeB

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Re: A Message to John Henry
« Reply #1255 on: January 7, 2011, 02:32:42 am »
No slightly wrong, he asked what our thoughts were about Benitez, we left him in no doubt that we thought he was a top quality manager. I think the 3 of us were slightly taken aback at the time as to why he would ask that seeing's Rafa was no longer with the club, read into it what you will, your guess is as good as mine but I think it's pretty telling.

To answer you Hitman is was the morning after the takeover when we met him at Anfield.

Yes, thanks for the correction, my point really being that Henry was asking about someone who no longer existed at the club, why not ask about houlier, or Kenny, unless he might have been gauging supporter opinion on someone who's methods matched.  As Johnny C was saying about these guys being info freaks they would know the facts from opinions. I was am still am a die hard Rafa fan, but accept that his era has gone, and my post isnt about creating a conspiracy, just to identify whether numbers men like FSG would sway to public opinion or media opinions when considering our future. Men who rely on numbers do so to avoid bold risks. Hodgson's appointment was a risk based on opinion not evidence, e.g, career achievements, coaching methods. Many people have said they want a fresh start, new coach, clean slate, new team etc, but surely what we want is to win, and have solidarity among fans and manager that we experienced for much of the last five years, only hampered by financial restriction. Anyway....

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Re: A Message to John Henry
« Reply #1256 on: January 7, 2011, 03:07:53 am »
(which considering the items in Carragher's contract that kicked in during the ownership change)
Can anybody shed some light on this for me please?
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Re: A Message to John Henry
« Reply #1257 on: January 7, 2011, 03:17:37 am »
Can anybody shed some light on this for me please?

Carragher signed his £90,000 a week contract on the last day of the previous ownerships reign as purslow sorted that contract out for him it was one of his last acts before the takeover
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Offline iamLIVERPOOLFC

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Re: A Message to John Henry
« Reply #1258 on: January 7, 2011, 03:18:50 am »
Don't be silly mate. Xavi is too old.

Well lets take a quick look shall we:

1) they managed to buy the club despite all of the legal and financial troubles that Hicks and Gillette gave them; they refused to give up and now are the proud owners of our beloved club
2) they hired Comolli, who, despite what some people think, is a pretty respected name in the footballing community
3) they have done everything right in terms of publicity from actually attending matches, to giving free tickets to kids for the Utrecht game, to ensuring there would be no fire sale of the better players
4) they have done a tremendous amount of research about football, and considering they have only been in the job for a few months, can't be expected to be experts on the game and make all of these amazing decisions and get us to the top of the table in no time
5) they bought the club with pretty much 0 debt, more than could be said for our previous owners
6) they have a proven track record at owning and managing sports clubs, and have been incredibly successful
7) they have been here for only 3 months now

That's why they "deserve a break." They are doing everything right at this point, looking for a CEO, researching, talking to the right people. What were they supposed to do? Walk into the club, sell all the players you saw unfit, hire Jose Mourinho, and bring Messi, Xavi, and Iniesta to the club?

They are taking their time and ensuring their decisions are right for the club 5-10 years down the line, not what's right this week. The problem is, so many members of our "fanbase" want things to change in an instant. Sky sports, knee jerk reactionaries who think that if we're not at the top of our game three months into NESV's reign they've done a shitty job. I just wish people would grow up and see the big picture here. Because NESV are actually doing the right things right now, but unfortunately our fickle fanbase can't seem to grasp that, and have only one thing on their minds, getting Roy out of our club.

I want Roy gone as much as anyone. However, do you really think firing him and being forced to bring in someone else this quickly is a genius idea? We could end up with someone just as bad if this happens too fast. I think they are just being responsible and ensuring things are set up for the future. They walked into a massive pile of shit disguised as a football club, at least give them time to implement their program before just ravenously criticizing their regime.
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Offline SmithdownAndy

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Re: A Message to John Henry
« Reply #1259 on: January 7, 2011, 03:23:45 am »
Yes, thanks for the correction, my point really being that Henry was asking about someone who no longer existed at the club, why not ask about houlier, or Kenny, unless he might have been gauging supporter opinion on someone who's methods matched.  As Johnny C was saying about these guys being info freaks they would know the facts from opinions. I was am still am a die hard Rafa fan, but accept that his era has gone, and my post isnt about creating a conspiracy, just to identify whether numbers men like FSG would sway to public opinion or media opinions when considering our future. Men who rely on numbers do so to avoid bold risks. Hodgson's appointment was a risk based on opinion not evidence, e.g, career achievements, coaching methods. Many people have said they want a fresh start, new coach, clean slate, new team etc, but surely what we want is to win, and have solidarity among fans and manager that we experienced for much of the last five years, only hampered by financial restriction. Anyway....
I honestly believe that what FSG want to do is win as well. You're right I don't think they will be swayed by either fan or media opinion, they will do what they think is right for them and for LFC first and foremost, if it rattles somebody's cage I don't think that will concern them one bit, if they feel Rafa is the man for them I'm sure they will appoint him.
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Re: A Message to John Henry
« Reply #1260 on: January 7, 2011, 05:15:05 am »
[
Reasonable post mate, but just one point to pick, as I think you're more familiar with their set-up at Boston.

Do you think it was a good move to bring Comolli in so soon? It seemed a hasty move. To me, it seems like an attempt to mimic the set-up they have in baseball, ie we're confident it works there, so it'll work here, no need to fuss too much about it, also the thing about Comolli knowing Beane would have helped.

If they had really spent time to analyse it in more detail (which would almost certainly be a lot longer than they took to appoint Comolli), maybe they would have realised the set-up quite often comes up short in football. Essentially, the chief scout covers most of what the director of fooball does.

It's usually a set-up where the manager has the power base that tends to work in football (although with notable exceptions), but I get the feeling that FSG have tried to make player signing a set-up by its own, to minimize potential mistakes any manager might make. The flip side of this is the diminished authority of the manager, and his ability to carry out his job is compromised as well. Ultimately, making the right decision in terms of the manager, and giving him power over transfers, seems the top level to me.



« Last Edit: January 7, 2011, 05:21:15 am by surfer »

Offline superbakat

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Re: A Message to John Henry
« Reply #1261 on: January 7, 2011, 05:18:16 am »
Bravo. Very long but very good post. RH still here?

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Re: A Message to John Henry
« Reply #1262 on: January 7, 2011, 05:18:45 am »
Comolli was a hasty decision. But its also a buffer i think. FSG needed someone they can trust since DC was within their circle of trust, 2 degrees of separation maybe. They need their own guy in very quickly, partly because they knew Cecil screwed up big time on footballing matters. Someone has to be employed by them, and feed them details.

what i am also guessing is the shock when FSG realise the mess they got themselves into. I don't think they even realise how bad it was till they got in. Pity them really.

Offline Jagged Princess

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Re: A Message to John Henry
« Reply #1263 on: January 7, 2011, 05:20:49 am »
I honestly believe that what FSG want to do is win as well. You're right I don't think they will be swayed by either fan or media opinion, they will do what they think is right for them and for LFC first and foremost, if it rattles somebody's cage I don't think that will concern them one bit, if they feel Rafa is the man for them I'm sure they will appoint him.


I get the same impression as you Andy and that in my opinion is exactly how it should be too, with the long-term future of Club first and foremost. 

I'm convinced there is plenty going on behind the scenes and their silence, to me, speaks volumes ....... having said that to steal your phrase, .... I hope it's not my cage they end up rattling  ;)

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Re: A Message to John Henry
« Reply #1264 on: January 7, 2011, 05:45:44 am »
Sorry about the video.
It was very funny then and is still very funny now.
Sums up the how much similar to feelings I feel, about the length time taken to make the decision. 
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/TUNkOHSQLpY?fs=1&amp;amp;hl=en_GB" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/TUNkOHSQLpY?fs=1&amp;amp;hl=en_GB</a>


« Last Edit: January 7, 2011, 05:49:04 am by liv8me »
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Re: A Message to John Henry
« Reply #1265 on: January 7, 2011, 05:53:51 am »
Hilarious! :)
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Re: A Message to John Henry
« Reply #1266 on: January 7, 2011, 06:20:56 am »
Mr Henry,

How is Hodgson still here?

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Re: A Message to John Henry
« Reply #1267 on: January 7, 2011, 06:23:06 am »
Mr Henry,

How is Hodgson still here?

Conistent with your questions there Helsinki ;D
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Re: A Message to John Henry
« Reply #1268 on: January 7, 2011, 06:43:37 am »
Sack him.

Ta
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Re: A Message to John Henry
« Reply #1269 on: January 7, 2011, 06:46:16 am »
"There's not one club in Europe with an anthem like You'll Never Walk Alone. There's not one club in the world so united with the fans. I sat there watching the Liverpool fans and they sent shivers down my spine. A mass of 40,000 people became one force behind their team ... For that I admire Liverpool more than anything" Johan Cryuff

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Re: A Message to John Henry
« Reply #1270 on: January 7, 2011, 06:51:09 am »
I could be wrong but...in America, baseball owners are always reluctant to make drastic managerial changes during a season. It's rare. And it it does happen, its usually because of serious problems behind the scenes.

I can't recall the New York Yankees or Boston sacking a manager in mid season but I am sure it does happen off and on.

But it isn't a norm.

The CEO's generally look at the season, submit a report to the owners including financial statements on how they performed and decisions are made in the off season.

Could this be the same scenario we are going through?
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Offline Johnny C

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Re: A Message to John Henry
« Reply #1271 on: January 7, 2011, 09:22:41 am »
Thanks BLF.  Good post.

I'll try to address the things you brought up in your post one-by-one...


34K Attendance
I personally think that the falling attendances (i.e. Bolton) is a great point.  I run spreadsheets on LFC's financial model and truthfully that Bolton attendance is something that I didn't expect.  Even in this current post-holiday depressed economic environment those Bolton numbers were a complete shock...  To forecast numbers continually down to that level, changed my entire financial model.

To that point, I think it's probably fair to say that 34K attendances @ Anfield is probably something that concerns Henry & NESV to no end.  There's NO WAY that they have the numbers modeled out @ that 34K level.  NO WAY.

Even if the most Anti-NESV LFC supporter came on here claiming that the owners don't see what's happening regarding Hodgson, that would be a complete load of tosh.  There is NO WAY NESV are going to miss the fact of 34K per match under this manager.  That alone should assure you that these guys are fully aware what is going on.  But again, I fully believe that these guys (Henry, Werner, Comolli) are 100% on top of things and have been fully aware since before they purchased the club of the exact circumstances that are facing the team concerning the manager.

The other thing to consider is that I bet that 34K attendance number made them rethink or at least question some of the stadium issues (i.e. size, local area redevelopment, etc...), but that's a topic for another thread.


Stating that he "knew virtually nothing about football a couple of months ago"
I wouldn't worry too much about Henry stating that when they purchased the team.  The way that I read that statement when he made it was him acknowledging to the Liverpool faithful that he was going to (1) learn about it and (2) more importantly that he was going to hire smart futbol people to run the Club and the Team.

Or look at it another way...  When is the last time that you saw a new owner have THIS MUCH experience with success in Sports before they purchased a Club?  It never happens.  It's unheard of in the EPL.  Anymore it's either (1) some rich oligarch or sheik (e.g. Abdullah @ Malaga, Abramovich), who have never run a Sports club in their lives or (2) wealthy fans who step into some money (e.g. Ashley, Gold, Sullivan, Moores), who wrongly get involved in everything because they are always seeing things as a fan first-and-foremost or (3) some levered-up investment company (e.g. Hicks/GG, Glazers), who are holding on for dear life praying for a low interest rate bull market environment to pay off their debts before they get found out.

Or asked differently, since when is having any experience owning a futbol club that important ?  Futbol clubs are one of the worst business models ever.  Almost impossible to run effectively, because they are run like hospitals (i.e. everyone has a hand in the pie taking out a plum).

To be a good owner, Henry doesn't need to know the ins-and-out of running an Offside Trap.  He doesn't need to know the evolution of the various formations to be a good owner.  What he does need and what is required from him is (1) experience in setting up a the right Club power structure, (2) experience in setting up a the right Club communication structure, (3) experience in making sound Sports personnel decisions (i.e. CEO, DOF, manager), (4) experience in marketing & stadium development, (5) the thirst to Win Win Win, (6) and lastly deep pockets .  And quite frankly he has all of those IN SPADES.

He'll become a proper knowledgeable fan on his own.  But that is not initially required to be a good/great owner.


Advice Henry's Getting
I see a lot of people tearing their hair out thinking that Purslow has Henry's ear.  Quite frankly I don't think that is the case at all.  It's fairly common to see some executive leaving a Club (or company) and retain some sort of title for a little bit. Why does this happen...?  So in case the owners need to know where the dead bodies are buried they have someone to call.  That's probably the case here right now.

Henry & Werner have a wealth of knowledgeable football people around (i.e. Comolli, Segura, Ayre, Dalglish, the ex-Arsenal directors) to help them make decisions.

Sacking Hodgson is going to be Comolli's call in conjunction with Henry & Werner.

But I will say, it's a decent scenario that these guys still have Purslow's phone number considering that he was the one who wrote Hodgson's contract.  If anyone knows where the pressure points to get to Hodgson are in that contract, it's him.  He's the one who sat in on the negotiations of that contract, so he going to know what things Hodgson holds dear.


Sack Today ?
As I said, I think that probably Henry & Comolli wanted to push this off to next week for a whole host of potential reasons (which I listed previously).  But as Soxfan said, sometimes you just can't wait and you have to bite the bullet a bit early.  I think that that is the case here.

I wouldn't be surprised (like with Rafa @ Inter) that it took 2 days (yesterday and today) to iron things out between Hodgson's agent and Liverpool's attorneys.

The mid-point of the Transfer Window (~Jan 15th) that I mentioned earlier I basically picked it out of the air using some reasoning.  January 15th is an appox. date that has some significance,  January and August are important financial months for futbol clubs.  It is typically when a lot of the cash flow takes place.  Couple that with the fact that these managerial & player contracts are all set-up differently on the frequency of when people get paid.  Some 2X per year.  Some 2X per month (either the 15th & the 30th or every other week).

In Hodgson's case when he signed a contract (the biggest payday in his 35yr career), there is no doubt that his agent saw the risk of new owners coming in a blowing Hodgson out immediately.  To insure that Hodgson was paid his chunk of change there is little doubt that the agent would have put in some sort of clause stating that if Hodgson is sacked before some specific date that his client is entitled to £X astronomical amount payday.  When they signed the contract they probably didn't make that date, January 1, as that could imply that Hodgson could be out of a job for the entire Transfer Window.  They probably also didn't make that date, January 31st, as that would leave the owners little wiggle room to get a new manager in if they had to.  So I am rationally speculating that that date was the midpoint, January 15th.

IMO, Hodgson's agent and Liverpool's attorneys are now coming up with various compromises to figure out how much Hodgson will be paid to terminate his contract early.  Hopefully Liverpool's attorney's can strong-arm Hodgson's agent.


In the Scheme of Things This is Peanuts
At the end of the day this is an easy personnel decision about an employee that is vastly under-achieving.  This is the easiest decision that a manager of a business could ever have.  When they came on board in Boston, Henry & NESV shit-canned the existing under-performing manager who was hired 6 months prior.  They sacked him without thinking twice, but they did so once Comolli's-equivalent had a few months to do due diligence on the guy and come to his own informed decision.  Same thing is happening here.  Historically these guys don't make rash decisions (i.e. what the fans are clamoring for that specific week).  They also don't make decisions based on external thinking (i.e. what the previous owners' stadium plans were).  They have proven in Boston that they make their own informed decisions.  That is all that this is.

But again, I think that for likely some host of reasons (mostly financial for either Hodgson's contract or the new manager's at their current club) that Henry/NESV were hoping to delay Hodgson's sacking for another week.  But as Soxfan indicated, we are at that "tipping point" right now, and this somewhat simple personnel decision likely won't be put off until next week.  Henry/NESV will have to pony up more money to get him out before that.

Firing Hodgson will be the easiest decision Henry & Comolli make all year.


@ Surfer
DOF Role and NESV's Appointment of Comolli
I wrote about it HERE on the Comolli thread.

Essentially the structure that NESV have set up @ Liverpool is vastly different than other places where there are DOFs.

The DOF Role ONLY WORKS if the rest of the organization is set-up to support it.  Just because the a club brings in a DOF does not mean that the rest of the organization is going to work with it.  Take Spain & Italy for instance.  A lot of those teams have DOFs but in no way shape or form are the organizations set-up to support it.  In Spain most of the DOFs are non-futbol guys trying to make the decisions (i.e. Florentino Pérez and his crooked cronies @ Madrid). Take even the UK... Guys like Avram Grant @Chelsea or Dalglish @Blackburn & Celtic may have held the title of DOF, but the power was still elsewhere (with the owners or managers).  Even look @ Inter Milan.  They had a DOF and a strong-willed manager, but @ the end of the day the owner makes all of the decisions.

As far as Comolli's specific appointment to the DOF role @Liverpool, I think it was a fairly good appointment.  Hopefully time will prove that it was a great appointment.

With the appointment of executive search firm, Spencer Stuart for the new CEO, NESV are showing you how they go about their selection process for the executives.  It's not the See-Who's-Available-And-Quickly-Pick-The-Best-From-The-Lot Approach which so many futbol clubs do. NESV's CEO appointment seems like a pretty good thought out approach.  Lot's of due diligence.  With Comolli they probably did the same thing.  In fact you can assume that they did regarding the due diligence.

As it turns out the world gets pretty small especially in business. The top venture capital guys have their very small circle of people that they respect in the business.  The Global Head of Information Technology @ BP probably only has a dozen or so peers across the Energy industry that he/she respects.  It's the same thing in any industry; moreover, ESPECIALLY in the Sports industry.  NESV are comfortable with the model that they have successfully built in Boston and one which has borne Championships, and so are the fans, and @ the heart of it is this structure and this thirst for new information (i.e. Moneyball-stuff).  So of course they are going to look for people like that in futbol.

In the entire world of Sport, I'd be willing to bet that there aren't more than 30 people across all Sports who embrace this Moneyball-stuff the same way as NESV.   And I bet most of those 30 all talk with each other.  So what do NESV do...  They ask one of the guys in that very top clique (baseball guy Billy Beane) who he respects the most.  He most likely said Arsene Wegner.  Well, we're weren't getting him, so then he comes back with a dozen or so other names, one of which is Comolli's and then NESV do deep due diligence on that shortlist of futbol guys that they think would fit the DOF role for them @ Liverpool.


Anyway...  just my 2 cents...
« Last Edit: January 7, 2011, 10:42:37 am by Johnny C »

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Re: A Message to John Henry
« Reply #1272 on: January 7, 2011, 09:46:43 am »
Yep great post there Johhny. I think it's very important that we keep level headed about the situation. It is very difficult as it's so frustrating seeing Hodgson bumble around as we lurch from one disaster on the pitch to another.

In my opinion Hodgson should be sacked immediately with a caretaker in place until the summer when someone like Klopp may be more inclined to join. However, accusing FSG of inactivity, or not caring, or being clueless is unwarranted and unfair. They are clearly working behind the scenes to sort this out. We as supporters want it rectified ASAP but they as owners want to make sure the decision they make is the right one. I think that they have already made that decision themselves and will wait until after the United game. At any point have they backed Hodgson? Yesterday when all the rumours reached boiling point, did they defend him, or deny any of said rumours? No. They know that Hodgson isn't the right man. We do not need to turn on these owners because so far they have been far more open and decent with us than they needed to be and I, for one, do not want to completely piss them off when it's clear they agree with us.
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Re: A Message to John Henry
« Reply #1273 on: January 7, 2011, 09:59:20 am »
Anyway...  just my 2 cents...

Cheers Johnny an interesting read that.
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Re: A Message to John Henry
« Reply #1274 on: January 7, 2011, 10:03:47 am »
Some belter posts in here.

Finding it very difficult to stay rational about the whole situation though
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Re: A Message to John Henry
« Reply #1275 on: January 7, 2011, 10:10:25 am »
Very interesting post Johnny C. Thanks.

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Re: A Message to John Henry
« Reply #1276 on: January 7, 2011, 10:16:39 am »
Johnny C seems to know his shit!

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Re: A Message to John Henry
« Reply #1277 on: January 7, 2011, 10:39:04 am »
Another good post Johnny C :). 8)

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Re: A Message to John Henry
« Reply #1278 on: January 7, 2011, 10:44:09 am »
Plenty of misspellings - far too much corporate jargon in an attempt to relate, and above all unnecessary. He is quite aware of the fans position.

Has it crossed your mind that perhaps the wheels are firmly in motion behind the scenes and ensuring the result of any decision has no rash consequences by planning in advance is part of the delay?

To remove one manager, and install another will require majority board approval, funds to be available, contracts to be negotiated and a replacement with the i's dotted and t's crossed ready to start at an appropriate time swiftly after a previous regime is axed?

These things take time, have faith...

Thank you very much for your 'critique', nice to know we have someone here to correct our grammar and tell us what relates to our comment and opinion.!!  As I mentioned in my email I apologise for the analogy but by their own admission FSG bought LFC primarily as a business, not as a football club. The comparison was appropriate. They said decisions would be made on a business level and not emotional level so that is why the tone was as it was.

Of course he is quite aware of the fans position.  The points of commenting in forums such as this are to ensure that he knows and understands our feelings. They would have to be blind/deaf NOT to see and hear it when they have attended recent games.

Yes, it has crossed my mind that they may have something in motion but given that any information coming out of the club appears to be drip fed to selected journalists to construct a smokescreen means that any information we receive is unclear.

In order to 'act now' as I stated in my email does not necessarily mean a new manager connected with new contracts etc. The installation of a caretaker manager from within (i.e. Kenny) would allow us time and consideration of the situation to look for a new manager and compile the 'identikit persona' and package for the man we need.

What is clear is that we cannot move forward with the person  who is in the job now. Changes must be made and made soon. Again if this was a business as opposed to a football club then Roy would have been sacked long ago based on his performance levels.

Roy is not capable of doing the job and should be removed forthwith. There is potential to have a caretaker between now and the season end. A new manager, fully interviewed by FSG group and conversant with their requirements and targets can then be instated in the interim between end of this  and the start of next pre-season.
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Offline LiamG

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Re: A Message to John Henry
« Reply #1279 on: January 7, 2011, 10:45:06 am »
Another good post Johnny C :). 8)
He should start up his own blogs!