Author Topic: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion  (Read 266830 times)

Offline leivapool

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Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1440 on: June 20, 2011, 08:16:35 am »
Well you can be sure that Jizzblender will create an extra 10 pages of reaction to his posts in a couple of hours.  He regularly does it in the Lucas thread, hence the modified username!!  ;D
Rossiter absolutely bossed it tonight. Really believe he'll end up playing more games this season than Lucas.


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Offline Steve Funn

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Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1441 on: June 20, 2011, 08:49:04 am »
Sorry mate I disagree, The Argie's, The Dutch , Spanish, Germans, even the likes of Polland and some African teams they give their all in tournaments their players want to win for their country it doesnt matter who Englands manager is the players have no pride in the country and go out at all costs to win.  One of the reasons that doesnt help either is the money they get paid they think they are fuckin great when they are not.  I am not saying all english players are shit there are some excellent players but as a team they fail miserably.  Pearce is a crap manager but Capello is one of the best around England would probably be more successfull if they played a team full of none prima donna's but that would never be aloud to happen. Big JT, Lamps, Wazza etc all have to play ::)
So England need....more passion?

Offline Cadno

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Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1442 on: June 20, 2011, 09:11:15 am »
Not worried for a moment about Henderson. He's got the basics of a good footballer (technique, reasonable pace, brain), and with Kenny working on his mentality and confidence, plus playing with quality players next season, he will blossom into a top quality player.

Needs to work on his strength though. Gym will fix that  :)

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Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1443 on: June 20, 2011, 10:37:18 am »
Capello is one of the best around England would probably be more successfull if they played a team full of none prima donna's but that would never be aloud to happen. Big JT, Lamps, Wazza etc all have to play ::)

If he is that good a manager why does he select those players? I would expect 'one of the best managers' to be able to select the right team.
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Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1444 on: June 20, 2011, 10:40:59 am »
He was poor last night, but I'm delighted that England are out and he can have a rest then come to Mellwood fresh and ready for the season.

His record of never been beaten with the Under 21s remains and nice to see them beaten when he left the field of play.

If that's the best Manchester United have for the future, they need to buy.
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They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1445 on: June 20, 2011, 10:43:22 am »
1. Why the fuck are (some) people hung up about the presumed transfer fee (not that we know the actual amount anyway)? We spent money on a young talent, get the fuck over it, it ain't your money, you have no reason to presume it will impact signing other targets so what's the big fucking deal and all the bitching?
 

It is 'our' money because 'we' have a finite amount of cash at any one time. Once any of that finite amount of money is spent, then that is less to be spent on other things. With the fair trade rules, this becomes even more important. Given the debt we were in and the trouble we were in - then anything that might lead to us now - or in the future - of going into debt is a concern for this fanbase given what has happened. Then you have the other argument which is for people that go to the match - they have to fund the purchase of players. We are happy to spend big. As long as spending big is sensible and helps the club in the long term.

That is why people are interested / have concerns / care about spending money.
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline Chivasino

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Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1446 on: June 20, 2011, 10:47:53 am »
With the fair trade rules

Paying the right value for players from poor countries?

Offline Gili Gulu

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Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1447 on: June 20, 2011, 10:48:26 am »
Is this what people are doing now, judging players based upon how they play for England?

Based upon that criteria how many Liverpool players such as Steve MacMahon, John Barnes, Alan Kennedy, even Steven Gerrard measure up?
I refuse to judge any player based upon how he plays for a team managed by that renowned tactical genius Stuart Pearce.

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Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1448 on: June 20, 2011, 10:48:39 am »
John aldridge wrote in yesterdays sunday world (n irish paper) that the henderson deal was closer to 13 million with add ons if he wins trophies and international caps and the like.I remember the season before last he was being linked with chelsea and man city.lets give the lad a chance and training and playing with the likes of gerrard and suarez with dalglish as your manager he can only improve.

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Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1449 on: June 20, 2011, 10:49:26 am »
Paying the right value for players from poor countries?


We need TEA!!

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Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

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Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1450 on: June 20, 2011, 10:51:04 am »
Is this what people are doing now, judging players based upon how they play for England?

Based upon that criteria how many Liverpool players such as Steve MacMahon, John Barnes, Alan Kennedy, even Steven Gerrard measure up?
I refuse to judge any player based upon how he plays for a team managed by that renowned tactical genius Stuart Pearce.




Stop being a drama queen. If you can't get into your head that people are interested in a new signing they probably haven't particularly noticed and therefore watched him in some games that he featured in then there is probably no point discussing anything with you.

We bought a player. People are interested in him because he's never really stood out. People watched him because of that interest. People are commenting on him and what they think because of that interest.
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline scared_person

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Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1451 on: June 20, 2011, 10:56:24 am »
Is this what people are doing now, judging players based upon how they play for England?

Based upon that criteria how many Liverpool players such as Steve MacMahon, John Barnes, Alan Kennedy, even Steven Gerrard measure up?
I refuse to judge any player based upon how he plays for a team managed by that renowned tactical genius Stuart Pearce.

Very true. England U21s played the game like the senior team do every time a big tournament comes round. Any midfielder would struggle to look good as the ball sails over his head again and again.

Still, you can tell we're back on the up again because the divvies have started moaning like there's no tomorrow!

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Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1452 on: June 20, 2011, 11:01:39 am »
It is 'our' money because 'we' have a finite amount of cash at any one time. Once any of that finite amount of money is spent, then that is less to be spent on other things. With the fair trade rules, this becomes even more important. Given the debt we were in and the trouble we were in - then anything that might lead to us now - or in the future - of going into debt is a concern for this fanbase given what has happened. Then you have the other argument which is for people that go to the match - they have to fund the purchase of players. We are happy to spend big. As long as spending big is sensible and helps the club in the long term.

That is why people are interested / have concerns / care about spending money.

Actually Andy none or very little of it is your money these days, you are not a just a fan you are a consumer and if you think your ticket money and occasional replica shirts or even paying for the official site website, buys these players you are in cloud cucckoo land. We are a global business and as such you not got a clue how much our spend will be this summer mind you neither do I.

So leave the job to the professionals instead of second guessing from a position of ignorance to our business deals!

As Jordon well a few other under 21 players had bad tournaments but i guess their fans are not ripping them a new arsehole like some of the stupid pricks in here! nevermind though crucify Jordon for a couple of seasons and then realise you were wrong about the lad call it the Leiva/Kuyt witchhunt policy!

One final thought for the ones getting annoyed with these obvious low number wums and the likes of jassy boy et al ,the ignore option is there in your profile settings for a reason why not use it I do saves time wasting on time wasters!

A world were Liars and Hypocrites are accepted and rewarded and honest people are derided!
Who voted in this lying corrupt bastard anyway

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Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1453 on: June 20, 2011, 11:06:05 am »
Very true. England U21s played the game like the senior team do every time a big tournament comes round. Any midfielder would struggle to look good as the ball sails over his head again and again.

Do people just decide that's what happened because it was England?  The ball did NOT go sailing over the midfield time after time last night - the problem was that there was zero creativity coming from the midfield.  The U21s kept it on the deck for most of the match but couldn't break the Czechs down, and unfortunately, Henderson was a part of the problem.  It only started to go long once England were a goal up and the Czechs started to attack more - that's when England shit themselves and start booting it away.

I'm not having a go at Henderson, like everyone else I'll judge him when he's playing for us, but this bullshit about England being a long ball team and that's why he looked bad is as much of a myth as all the stuff about us from the media.
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Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1454 on: June 20, 2011, 11:16:17 am »
Actually Andy none or very little of it is your money these days, you are not a just a fan you are a consumer and if you think your ticket money and occasional replica shirts or even paying for the official site website, buys these players you are in cloud cucckoo land. We are a global business and as such you not got a clue how much our spend will be this summer mind you neither do I.

So leave the job to the professionals instead of second guessing from a position of ignorance to our business deals!

As Jordon well a few other under 21 players had bad tournaments but i guess their fans are not ripping them a new arsehole like some of the stupid pricks in here! nevermind though crucify Jordon for a couple of seasons and then realise you were wrong about the lad call it the Leiva/Kuyt witchhunt policy!

One final thought for the ones getting annoyed with these obvious low number wums and the likes of jassy boy et al ,the ignore option is there in your profile settings for a reason why not use it I do saves time wasting on time wasters!



Fair enough about the money - but I find it hard not to think negatively about our spends given where we were. Hopefully once we've settled down a bit then we won't care less - it's a difficult concept for me to just be able to think about the footy for a change - will probably take a few years to just watching it and enjoying it.

As for 'ignore' - even though some are WUMs, some great topics and some great debates have been started by a troll or someone just on the wind-up. This forum is bigger than anyone.
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

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Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1455 on: June 20, 2011, 11:26:25 am »
As Jordon well a few other under 21 players had bad tournaments but i guess their fans are not ripping them a new arsehole like some of the stupid pricks in here! nevermind though crucify Jordon for a couple of seasons and then realise you were wrong about the lad call it the Leiva/Kuyt witchhunt policy!

Well said GS. We should call it "DirkLucas Syndrome". Some made arse fuckers on here got a bad case of DLS.
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Offline Breitner

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Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1456 on: June 20, 2011, 11:29:21 am »
Stop being a drama queen. If you can't get into your head that people are interested in a new signing they probably haven't particularly noticed and therefore watched him in some games that he featured in then there is probably no point discussing anything with you.

We bought a player. People are interested in him because he's never really stood out. People watched him because of that interest. People are commenting on him and what they think because of that interest.

Think you've missed his point there, though you are quite selective when it comes to 'support', Andy.
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Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1457 on: June 20, 2011, 11:33:10 am »
England  = £££ in sponsorship deals for Players.
did you know that 10 x 2 and 11 x 2 have the same answer?

Offline the_doktor

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Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1458 on: June 20, 2011, 11:33:18 am »
I thought he did OK with a difficult set up. On the plus side, I thought he looked like the kind of player who keeps things simple - and showed good awareness at times. The problem was that the rest of the England team played like it was the last 5 minutes from the start and tried to knock it into the box or high up the wings as the default ball. Henderson dropped very deep and then looked for a close, proximate player - which was tricky because the rest of the midfield had bombed on into the opponents half. This may have been Pearce's tactics or simply youthful exuberance, I don't know. Either way it meant Henderson was often isolated in his own half when bringing the ball out of defence and tentative to join the attack. For that reason I think he went missing for swathes of the match - kind of in limbo between DM and box to box. It also meant that he was encouraged to make long, risky passes on occasion when there were so few simple options around him. 

The team set up and the tactics were poor, and England are deservedly out. But I look forward to seeing what Henderson will look like in a different formation and in a different position with better, more composed players. He looked a pass and move, keep it simple player in an England U21 team that played a pace-oriented kick and run/kick and jump football.

Offline Uhoh AureliOs

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Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1459 on: June 20, 2011, 11:34:39 am »
Is this what people are doing now, judging players based upon how they play for England?

Based upon that criteria how many Liverpool players such as Steve MacMahon, John Barnes, Alan Kennedy, even Steven Gerrard measure up?
I refuse to judge any player based upon how he plays for a team managed by that renowned tactical genius Stuart Pearce.



It's madness, like they've forgotten Roy's reign of rigidity and how bad stifling systems can make a player look. Henderson has been bought to fit in with our style of play which entirely different to the way England set up. We won't be expecting him to drop deep to pick the ball up off the cb and then turn around to find his other midfielders sprinting at goal 40 yards down the pitch already. We play with more patience where movement and understanding of the game are key and Henderson looks good at that (from what little I've seen). Yesterday he had a bad game for a variety of reasons. It happens.

If you're going to watch summer internationals and preseason friendlies you need to keep an open mind.

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Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1460 on: June 20, 2011, 11:44:48 am »
Think you've missed his point there, though you are quite selective when it comes to 'support', Andy.

Really? Talk me through that one. I don't like Gerrard, but I support him when he plays for us. I want him and the team to do well. If we could get big money (And I mean BIG Money) then given his increasing fitness worries and lack of first team appearances then it would be something you might consider for the good of the team.

A lot of what I say against Gerrard is directed at those slagging off other players - and it's usually the worst of those that kick off the most.

And what point has been missed?
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Offline topcorner2345

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Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1461 on: June 20, 2011, 12:06:31 pm »
The signing of Henderson will in the long term prove to be a good one i think, rather have half decent British players than some way over rated foreign imports to be honest.

Price tag might be over the odds but home grown players come at a premium unfortunately.

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Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1462 on: June 20, 2011, 12:09:45 pm »
The signing of Henderson will in the long term prove to be a good one i think, rather have half decent British players than some way over rated foreign imports to be honest.

Price tag might be over the odds but home grown players come at a premium unfortunately.


If you're talking about overrated then you don't get more overrated than any English player that can kick a ball three yards without falling over.
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline redjed1

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Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1463 on: June 20, 2011, 12:23:51 pm »
Watched the under-21's last night. Henderson's contribution reminded me of Frank Lampard - ambling about the midfield without threatening anything. I only hope he had been told to play like that.

Hope he has a bit of a break, then turns up for a good pre-season and the likes of Kenny and SG refocus his way of playing. Not that bothered if he cost £20m, so long as he puts in really good performances. With Meireles, Lucas, Spearing, Shelvey to contend with he'll have to play consistently well to get a first team place.

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Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1464 on: June 20, 2011, 12:25:36 pm »
I thought he did OK with a difficult set up. On the plus side, I thought he looked like the kind of player who keeps things simple - and showed good awareness at times. The problem was that the rest of the England team played like it was the last 5 minutes from the start and tried to knock it into the box or high up the wings as the default ball. Henderson dropped very deep and then looked for a close, proximate player - which was tricky because the rest of the midfield had bombed on into the opponents half. This may have been Pearce's tactics or simply youthful exuberance, I don't know. Either way it meant Henderson was often isolated in his own half when bringing the ball out of defence and tentative to join the attack. For that reason I think he went missing for swathes of the match - kind of in limbo between DM and box to box. It also meant that he was encouraged to make long, risky passes on occasion when there were so few simple options around him. 

The team set up and the tactics were poor, and England are deservedly out. But I look forward to seeing what Henderson will look like in a different formation and in a different position with better, more composed players. He looked a pass and move, keep it simple player in an England U21 team that played a pace-oriented kick and run/kick and jump football.

This sums it up exactly for me. Was watching the games on a dodgy stream, but this is what I saw too. The lad got the ball, looked to play it simple, unfortunately players not showing for the ball is hardly his fault.
My only criticism would be that maybe he could have imposed himself a bit more. He looked a little unsure of his positioning at times
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Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1465 on: June 20, 2011, 12:30:38 pm »
This sums it up exactly for me. Was watching the games on a dodgy stream, but this is what I saw too. The lad got the ball, looked to play it simple, unfortunately players not showing for the ball is hardly his fault.
My only criticism would be that maybe he could have imposed himself a bit more. He looked a little unsure of his positioning at times


Looked to me that the other players weren't passing to him - or giving him a poor ball when he was out of position.

I'd hoped to get a better idea of him in the competition, but we'll just have to wait to see what he's like at Mellwood. There is no pressure (Except the price) on him and if he takes 2 years to become a regular starter then that's fine. He has time, he's only young.
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

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Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1466 on: June 20, 2011, 12:31:48 pm »
Theres no point pretending he wasnt bad, he just was, it was a very bad tournament from him but that doesnt mean he cant be good next year, the u21s were overall a very poor team with no ideas a player in his mould was never going to shine in that team

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Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1467 on: June 20, 2011, 12:33:10 pm »
A lot of people have missed the point in the signing of Henderson and other potential young players. He is young and talented and was bought for the long term. The fee is somewhat irrelevant to the players worth, it's what we are prepared to pay in the circumstances.

We are looking for young players who we can mould into our way of playing football. Whilst other teams are concentrated on buying players and achieving success right now, we are looking to the future.

Their signings in 3/4 seasons time will have passed their peak and will have to look at replacing.

Can you imagine a starting XI of Henderson, Kelly, Carroll, Suarez, Lucas, Flanagan, Wisdom,  etc, bred into playing pass and move and also playing at the top of their games?!

We will be a force to be reckoned with once again and I cannot wait.

We have just been through a huge transition and I am thankful that we are in the position that we are, we just have to be patient, show our support and trust those that are in control.

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Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1468 on: June 20, 2011, 12:35:11 pm »
Contrary to the myopic view this was not Jordan's first few games. He has actually played a bit and done quite well. He had a bad tournament, I sure he's not happy about it. Time for us to move on, time for him to move on.

If he's the lad Kenny says he is I'm sure he'll pick himself up and get to work.  And if where the supporters we claim to be we'll get behind him and let him know he'll never walk alone.
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Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1469 on: June 20, 2011, 12:37:29 pm »
Contrary to the myopic view this was not Jordan's first few games. He has actually played a bit and done quite well. He had a bad tournament, I sure he's not happy about it. Time for us to move on, time for him to move on.

If he's the lad Kenny says he is I'm sure he'll pick himself up and get to work.  And if where the supporters we claim to be we'll get behind him and let him know he'll never walk alone.

Again. I fail to see the suggestion that everyone won't get behind him. People keep saying "Give the lad a chance" and such like - but what posts have people said "I'm not supporting the lad once he runs out for us"

People don't know much about him, are disappointed with his performance in their first real look at him. And that's it.

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Offline Steve Funn

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Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1470 on: June 20, 2011, 12:47:26 pm »
Again. I fail to see the suggestion that everyone won't get behind him. People keep saying "Give the lad a chance" and such like - but what posts have people said "I'm not supporting the lad once he runs out for us"

People don't know much about him, are disappointed with his performance in their first real look at him. And that's it.
:thumbup

Even if I thought it was a terrible signing and that hes a useless player (which I dont) I would still support him at games, I dont see how that argument makes any sense.

Offline DanA

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Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1471 on: June 20, 2011, 01:18:33 pm »
Yes, i see that we are aiming at buying young talent... ok let me put it this way, you think wickham is talent, i think lukaku is, just a difference of expectation.... in my opinion, until we're getting young talents on this level we'll be lagging behind.
you are a bit thick, ive seen him play live on more than 8-9 occasions last season, hes not worth 20million, so we're overpaying.
Personally i think we paid too much he is average and will probably be warming the bench this season

Perpetuating the 20m myth and negative comments aren't getting behind a player in my book
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Offline Armand9

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Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1472 on: June 20, 2011, 01:21:54 pm »
It is 'our' money because 'we' have a finite amount of cash at any one time. Once any of that finite amount of money is spent, then that is less to be spent on other things. With the fair trade rules, this becomes even more important. Given the debt we were in and the trouble we were in - then anything that might lead to us now - or in the future - of going into debt is a concern for this fanbase given what has happened. Then you have the other argument which is for people that go to the match - they have to fund the purchase of players. We are happy to spend big. As long as spending big is sensible and helps the club in the long term.

That is why people are interested / have concerns / care about spending money.

Firstly, concerning 'finite amount' - we have no idea what that is or whether henderson's fee will impact on other signings and to date kenny has praised the owners for supporting financially the acquisition of his targets. It appears the presumption is that his fee is 'taking away' from other target's - but it is just that a 'presumption' and what other targets are diminishing because of henderson's fee? No fucker knows either way.

The debt argument is a non-starter - there's no relationship between the henderson fee and some nebulous debt fear, one that i haven't seen expressed in the relevant threads when speaking of transfer fees (I might have missed the odd post, granted, but it's clearly not a concern for most at this time). Let's not bullshit, fans at this time are not worried in the slightest by debt as we in the main have trust and faith in our owners to this point - in fact if you look at some 'hoped' for signings there's more about splash the cash than 'oh dear it could put us in debt'.

Fans ultimately paying for the club by their support is obviously true but again I haven't seen fans bitching about paying to see games (ticket prices thread excluded - it's an increase, that's alway gonna get hammered).

The bitching I mentioned isn't centred around money per se, it's about their individual valuation of the player and what the club values him at - which is the part that bemuses me hence my initial response. How many times have you read about 'if only we'd gone a few extra million etc'.

The kid is getting flak from the money side of things cos those indiviuals dishing it out don't see him in the same light as kenny. I'm sure the same posters would be all for spunking shitloads if Aguero was a possibility - so I see it as moving the goal posts using the money angle.
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Offline jDJ

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Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1473 on: June 20, 2011, 01:22:19 pm »
I care about my club - not Jordan Henderson, not Comolli and ultimately not even Kenny.  We're signing players, in my opinion, who present terrible value for money.  55m dropped on two players, neither of whom would get close to my best xi.  That doesn't mean I won't support Henderson or indeed stick my hand up and say I was wrong if he turns out to be top class.

But I raised concerns over a "best of british" policy when it was first touted.  The quality of players is simply not there.  We see it in the under 21s, we see it in the senior national team.  You only buy British if you are buying the very best like when United signed Ferdinand, Rooney and now Jones (potentially).  Like when Chelsea signed Cole and Lampard and tried to sign Gerrard.  You scratch below the surface of England's elite and the standard plummets.

Offline scared_person

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Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1474 on: June 20, 2011, 01:29:25 pm »
I care about my club - not Jordan Henderson, not Comolli and ultimately not even Kenny.  We're signing players, in my opinion, who present terrible value for money.  55m dropped on two players, neither of whom would get close to my best xi.  That doesn't mean I won't support Henderson or indeed stick my hand up and say I was wrong if he turns out to be top class.

But I raised concerns over a "best of british" policy when it was first touted.  The quality of players is simply not there.  We see it in the under 21s, we see it in the senior national team.  You only buy British if you are buying the very best like when United signed Ferdinand, Rooney and now Jones (potentially).  Like when Chelsea signed Cole and Lampard and tried to sign Gerrard.  You scratch below the surface of England's elite and the standard plummets.

Why are you on the one hand complaining that we're signing Henderson and Carroll, but on the other saying the mancs are buying the very best in Phil Jones?

Jones has done no more to prove himself than either Carroll or Hendo. For what its worth, our lads have both played senior international football so are arguably more 'proven' than Jones. The mancs have been doing this for years, and it hasn't worked out too badly for them.

I do agree that an English only policy would be a mistake, but lets see how the summer pans out before we condemn what's only half finished business.

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Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1475 on: June 20, 2011, 01:32:54 pm »
I care about my club - not Jordan Henderson, not Comolli and ultimately not even Kenny.  We're signing players, in my opinion, who present terrible value for money.  55m dropped on two players, neither of whom would get close to my best xi.  That doesn't mean I won't support Henderson or indeed stick my hand up and say I was wrong if he turns out to be top class.

This is where we differ.

I care about Jordan because when he signed we said "You'll never walk alone"
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Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1476 on: June 20, 2011, 01:34:31 pm »
Firstly, concerning 'finite amount' - we have no idea what that is or whether henderson's fee will impact on other signings and to date kenny has praised the owners for supporting financially the acquisition of his targets. It appears the presumption is that his fee is 'taking away' from other target's - but it is just that a 'presumption' and what other targets are diminishing because of henderson's fee? No fucker knows either way.

The debt argument is a non-starter - there's no relationship between the henderson fee and some nebulous debt fear, one that i haven't seen expressed in the relevant threads when speaking of transfer fees (I might have missed the odd post, granted, but it's clearly not a concern for most at this time). Let's not bullshit, fans at this time are not worried in the slightest by debt as we in the main have trust and faith in our owners to this point - in fact if you look at some 'hoped' for signings there's more about splash the cash than 'oh dear it could put us in debt'.

Fans ultimately paying for the club by their support is obviously true but again I haven't seen fans bitching about paying to see games (ticket prices thread excluded - it's an increase, that's alway gonna get hammered).

The bitching I mentioned isn't centred around money per se, it's about their individual valuation of the player and what the club values him at - which is the part that bemuses me hence my initial response. How many times have you read about 'if only we'd gone a few extra million etc'.

The kid is getting flak from the money side of things cos those indiviuals dishing it out don't see him in the same light as kenny. I'm sure the same posters would be all for spunking shitloads if Aguero was a possibility - so I see it as moving the goal posts using the money angle.



I know no one knows how much it is - that's why I said "A finite amount". The only thing we know about it is that it IS finite. We are not a bottomless pit. I've already explained that if all these signings are spot on and everything is done correctly then it'll take me a few years to get back to the idea that we can have owners that know what they are doing and can build a stable and growing club without smashing us into a black sea of debt and despair. If several years pass and they have accomplished that, then I'll be as happy as anyone. I agree it's nice to see that they are backing Kenny (Within reason - see above).

I was one of the ones mistrustsful and 'whinging' when the last owners walked in. Many 'didn't care' about them taking over and "Couldn't see" any possibility of problems down the line. I think we should all be cautious. I hope that the new owners are honest, doing the best for the club and are going to get us back to where we would like to be. But that will take time and I shall be watchful and cautious until such time that it is obvious that they are doing the right thing. I don't think this is a bad tack to take - they themselves have alluded to the way the club was fucked over and I'm sure they can understand that once bitten twice shy mindset. But any debt laden onto the club isn't going to be met very well by myself.

Plenty of us have been moaning about ticket prices and season ticket prices. Nearly bloody £800. I can't believe it. Fucking hell. £800!!! And that's just the league games. Add on the prices of the FA Cup, League Cup and away fixtures at robbing bastards like Stamford Bridge and Arsenal and you'll see plenty of moaning this season mate.

Your next part I absolutely agree with. Sometimes a chance you have to take. Ronaldo could have been bought and a stream of other players that we lost out on for the sake of £5M or less. This is a gamble - but all transfers are. Let's see how he gets on. He should be given several seasons to bed in - he's very young and shouldn't be rushed. The price tag will cause problems though. If you leave a high-priced player out of any games, the media will be right in there with "KOP FLOP!!!" and all the rest of their bullshit. We, as fans, should resist this.

I agree with this as well - but that's more to do with the media overhyping shite than Henderson. You can (usually) buy a world class foreign midfielder for £40M. An English one would cost you £60M. That added money with the hype always adds pressure and expectation. It's not Henderson's fault that he was bought for so much.
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Offline jDJ

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Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1477 on: June 20, 2011, 01:38:42 pm »
Why are you on the one hand complaining that we're signing Henderson and Carroll, but on the other saying the mancs are buying the very best in Phil Jones?

Jones has done no more to prove himself than either Carroll or Hendo. For what its worth, our lads have both played senior international football so are arguably more 'proven' than Jones. The mancs have been doing this for years, and it hasn't worked out too badly for them.

I do agree that an English only policy would be a mistake, but lets see how the summer pans out before we condemn what's only half finished business.

The mancs haven't really been doing this for years.  That's one of my frustrations, everyone sees United as the blueprint and say they've got a lot of English players.  Firstly, they haven't bought in that many English players at all.  They were blessed with an incredible crop of youngsters the like of which no team will probably ever see again.  Of the players they've bought in, most have been absolutely top class talent like Rooney and Ferdinand.  Carrick cost 18m and have a limited impact on their first team and success.

We're not signing Rooney who, when they bought him was considered to have the potential to be the best english player ever.  We're not signing Ferdinand, an established international centre half who again looked like he could become one of Europe's best.  We're signing Jordan Henderson and Andy Carroll, two players who by England standards look decent prospects at best.  Be honest, if say Spurs or Villa or someone else bought Henderson and Carroll would we really even have noticed?  I certainly wouldn't be fearful that one of our rivals is making a big push and leaving us chasing them down.  I'd think they've just massively overspent on two players who would struggle to get in our first team.

As for Jones, I think he's a very decent prospect indeed and I've been very impressed everytime I saw him play last season.  If we'd just won the league and got to the champions league final, I'd love to see us drop huge sums on someone like Jones but we need to improve our first team which is currently sixth best in the country.

Offline lfc1984

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Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1478 on: June 20, 2011, 01:48:45 pm »
I care about my club - not Jordan Henderson, not Comolli and ultimately not even Kenny.  We're signing players, in my opinion, who present terrible value for money.  55m dropped on two players, neither of whom would get close to my best xi.  That doesn't mean I won't support Henderson or indeed stick my hand up and say I was wrong if he turns out to be top class.

But I raised concerns over a "best of british" policy when it was first touted.  The quality of players is simply not there.  We see it in the under 21s, we see it in the senior national team.  You only buy British if you are buying the very best like when United signed Ferdinand, Rooney and now Jones (potentially).  Like when Chelsea signed Cole and Lampard and tried to sign Gerrard.  You scratch below the surface of England's elite and the standard plummets.

You're right, we paid about 20M too much for Carrol and about 15M too much for Henderson. It's a bit upsetting to see us spending the type of money that could buy real proven top class players on unknown quantities, it's a huge and unnecessary risk in my opinion.

People make it sound like sacrilige to raise concerns about how the club management are operating, but anyone with a mind of their own will never agree 100% with everything they do. I will be 100% behind Kenny and any new signings too, and like yourself I hope they prove me very wrong, but I do wonder if it were Hodson who spend 55M on Carrol and Henderson how differently it might have been recieved by the majority of the fans.

Offline scared_person

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Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1479 on: June 20, 2011, 01:52:29 pm »
As for Jones, I think he's a very decent prospect indeed and I've been very impressed everytime I saw him play last season.  If we'd just won the league and got to the champions league final, I'd love to see us drop huge sums on someone like Jones but we need to improve our first team which is currently sixth best in the country.

I agree, which is why I said we should judge at the end of the transfer window. If he's the only signing we make then it'll be a terrible signing, but if Hendo is signed in the context of 3 or 4 nailed on first teamers also coming in then its a great piece of business.

We're not signing Rooney who, when they bought him was considered to have the potential to be the best english player ever.  We're not signing Ferdinand, an established international centre half who again looked like he could become one of Europe's best.  We're signing Jordan Henderson and Andy Carroll, two players who by England standards look decent prospects at best.  Be honest, if say Spurs or Villa or someone else bought Henderson and Carroll would we really even have noticed?  I certainly wouldn't be fearful that one of our rivals is making a big push and leaving us chasing them down.  I'd think they've just massively overspent on two players who would struggle to get in our first team.

First of all, I'm not talking about their homegrown players. Whiskey nose has clearly persued a policy of buying up young English talent and I think there is a bit of hindsight being used here. Rooney was a special prospect yes, but he was far from the finished article, and an 18 year old often doesn't kick on in the way you might expect. With hindsight £26M was a bargain, at the time it was a big risk on a teenager. Likewise Ferdinand, he was a good player but by no means world class. £30Million was a massive risk at the time, but with hindsight it was a good deal.

Of course if you buy youngsters you risk buying a Carrick who doesn't progress as you might expect, but even he has been decent for them and if they sold him they'd probably get half their money back.

I think all the mancs deals represent a similar risk to our deals, but its hard to accept that with the hindsight of knowing how players turned out.