Topic: Being a mid-table side, and dealing with it....

[fowlermagic]

You know what will make a difference....a work attitude adjustment. We are a "midtable side" with a wallet that has us in the Top 10 richest clubs in the world. Obviously seen in the past 5 - 10 years money will not bridge the gap as we have thrown plenty of it around and if need be we can still splash out as we will have too I fear. Thing is you better make sure you are not buying a soft ass star who thinks he has succeeded just because he has the luxuries, ie the Gucci wash bag as he strolls into the stadium. If they don't do it on the field then their Gucci bags should be tossed in the bins as they are given a wake up call. Honestly we just have to clean house and those with a bit of class and a whole lot of character are kept while any new additions need to be willing to get their Armani suits dirty while lifting the coal onto their backs. Hard work is ahead and those that are cruising right now can feck off and those who want to cruise are not welcome.

[ashleyrose-66]

I honestly think 2 world class players would make a huge difference to this team

GK and striker

Whilst I think our squad needs improvements in every area, I would agree that this is where we should focus.  But how do we define "world class", and what would signing "world class" actually guarantee? 

There are no guarantees in football, Liverpool could go out and buy a "world class" striker in the summer, but for whatever reason, he might not score many goals.  We've seen it before - Shevchenko, Crespo, Robinho, Di Maria etc...

Meanwhile, Harry Kane and Jamie Vardy are banging in the goals on a regular basis.  When fit, Daniel Sturridge scores goals on a regular basis, so a "world class" striker is not a guarantee of 20+ goals per season.   
Many people (pundits, media etc...) would have said Balotelli was a world class striker when we signed him.  He didn't score many though did he?
Meanwhile, Harry Kane, Charlie Austin and Saido Berahino all finished in the top 6 Premier League top scorers last season!

The key for me is the goalkeeper.  This is not to dig out Mignolet at all, he is simply not a world class goalkeeper, or top class goalkeeper at that!   

Whereas a world class striker might not score many goals in the Premier League, a world class goalkeeper, even a "top class" keeper is worth his weight in gold.

How many "world class" goalkeepers have been signed by Premiership clubs and have flopped?  van der Saar, was a success, Courtois has been a success, Lloris has been a success...

A world class goalkeeper can be worth anything between 10-12 points a season for a club - possibly more.  Whereas a goalkeeper who is prone to errors can cost a club 4-6 points a season.  That's potentially an 18 point swing!
 If you are struggling to score goals, than you at least need a goalkeeper that doesn't make big mistakes on a regular basis, and for me this is an area that needs addressing first.  Liverpool have to bring in an experienced, "top class" (not necessarily a "world class") goal keeper and then look at our striker options.  As I say, we could spend £40m on a well-known striker from La Liga, and he could flop, whist someone like Danny Ings could (potentially) score 15-20 league goals in a season.

[Banquo's Ghost]

There is also the unrealistic expectations of many of our fans. It's all very well going on about Leicester - who are an outlier this season, as we were in 13-14, and no more likely to consistently overturn the money clubs' dominance - but if LFC had signed an unknown from Le Havre, who had an average first season, many fans would have been in meltdown, and the lad would have been 'tutted' and sighed at during home matches.

We now have Jürgen Klopp as our manager. There is no doubt a significant change in leadership structure above him is required to complete the foundation for a new way forward. FSG needs to show the same ruthlessness towards the failed CEO that they displayed in getting rid of Rodgers.

FSG have an opportunity to listen the the best of our support and implement a fair ticketing structure alongside a new leadership to support one of the best managers in the world. Supporters, manager and players unified with visionary owners and a leadership that people can respect. Supporters who then support and believe.

Or they can stick to money grabbing, pandering to the insta-fix fans who enabled the last lot of exploiters to get rid of our world-class manager after just a small blip, and thus plunge the club into mediocrity.

Shouldn't really be a choice, should it?

[kcbworth]

My point is that style is dictated by the players signed, if you come close to winning the title with Suarez in your team and look to replace him with Sanchez, the style doesn't change. If you fail to sign Sanchez and then offer Balotelli as the last turkey in the shop then it's going to effect/change the teams style of play.

The failure to land Sanchez and then have no suitable back-up options was crazy and a worry on-going.

Fair enough. I reckon that's on Rodgers though

[pjk66]

Good OP. I agree with it entirely.

This summer window is HUGE. I wonder will Klopp be given the funds he needs? I also wonder will he want to splash 30m on players or will he be more savvy in his dealings?

[Funky_Gibbons]

Fair enough. I reckon that's on Rodgers though

What is?

[kcbworth]

There is also the unrealistic expectations of many of our fans. It's all very well going on about Leicester - who are an outlier this season, as we were in 13-14

13/14 was exactly what I expected given the 2nd half of 12/13 we showed league winning form.

In fact, for periods under Kenny (Agger + Skrtel + Johnson + Suarez + Lucas + Meireles + Gerrard) we also showed league winning form (until the Andy Carroll/Charlie Adam/Stuart Downing demise)

I don't think it's an outlier whatsoever.

[DonkeyWan]

This "we are a mid-table team now" is the kind of gibberish you hear from United fans. Were they a mid-table team when they went 25 years without winning diddly squat?

People make light of Liverpool's record over the last number of years, but since our last league title Liverpool have won 3 FA cups, 3 League cups, 1 CL, 1 EL, 2 Supercups and have had 1 treble in that time. That's more than some mid-table sides have won in their lifetime. It's hardly a record to be sniffed at.

Liverpool are also in the top 10 richest clubs in the world and are currently led by one of the most sought after managers in Europe (and anyone anyway knowledgeable would note the improvements he has brought during an incredibly difficult period of injury and transition).

What has really done the damage was a period of poor ownership, poor managerial selection and flirting with administration that left he club nearly broken in two. That has taken a long time to recover from and now people are grumbling about Liverpool being a 'mid-table side' despite only just clearing most of the debt in the last two years?

We were in the CL last year, lest we forget and are still in the EL this year, as well as the final of the LC and the FA cup (which will be some fun tonight, eh?). Exactly how many mid-tables have that record again?

I think our fans at times listen to much to the prattling of opposition fans.

[kcbworth]

This "we are a mid-table team now" is the kind of gibberish you hear from United fans. Were they a mid-table team when they went 25 years without winning diddly squat?

People make light of Liverpool's record over the last number of years, but since our last league title Liverpool have won 3 FA cups, 3 League cups, 1 CL, 1 EL, 2 Supercups and have had 1 treble in that time. That's more than some mid-table sides have won in their lifetime. It's hardly a record to be sniffed at.

Liverpool are also in the top 10 richest clubs in the world and are currently led by one of the most sought after managers in Europe (and anyone anyway knowledgeable would note the improvements he has brought during an incredibly difficult period of injury and transition).

What has really done the damage was a period of poor ownership, poor managerial selection and flirting with administration that left he club nearly broken in two. That has taken a long time to recover from and now people are grumbling about Liverpool being a 'mid-table side' despite only just clearing most of the debt in the last two years?

We were in the CL last year, lest we forget and are still in the EL this year, as well as the final of the LC and the FA cup (which will be some fun tonight, eh?). Exactly how many mid-tables have that record again?

I think our fans at times listen to much to the prattling of opposition fans.

Would be sweet to win the EL this year

[free_at_last]

I fail to see how it's possible for us to be or become a mid-table club. We are at least in the top 3 supported clubs world wide. How
can the revenue that generates be wasted year after year. In fact it takes some skill to stop us being a top club(coco the clown). Rafa had us number one in Europe in a very short time until the obvious happened. At some point it will click - maybe with Klopp - maybe later - but it would take professional incompetence to keep us mid-table.

[Jookie]

not really a surprise we are now fighting a mid table battle we have signed a load of players who played for mid table teams and some fans are seemingly surprised that we are in this position!

There's nothing wrong with buying players from mid table or lower league teams. We've done that successfully in the past.

The problem is buying the wrong players. Not player but players. We've got a situation now where we've got no balance within the squad and the squad is less than the sum of it's parts. I'm going to take Benteke as a very recent example. Benteke is a very good Premier League player. One who has flourished in the Premier League and a player who is easily good enough to play for a top 6 team. But not if you don't play to his strengths and/or utilise him in a way that gets something approaching useful out of him. We just don't have the players to get the best out of Benteke. I'd love to know what the actual tactical plan was for this current squad of players that have been brought together over the last 3 or 4 transfer windows.

For the people saying we shouldn't buy from mid table teams, what teams should we be buying from? I saw someone saw we were successful when we purchased Reina, Torres, Alonso etc.. I doubt we'd be able to attract those players now. We had CL football to offer and a revered manager from their country. We could also offer the opportunity to play alongside other great players -  Gerrard, Carragher etc.. We were a much more attractive proposition at that point than we are now. The only benefits we might have now are within Germany where players might want to play for Klopp. Generally I think we'd be dipping into a lower level, or higher risk, player from abroad than we were 5 to 10 years ago.

Player recruitment over the next few windows is going to be crucial. Getting the right players individually and collectively will be paramount to any success. These players need to be able to contribute themselves but also lift the performances of others too. We don't have a terrible squad. We have an unbalanced squad that isn't suited to our current tactical approach. We desperately need to right this wrong.

[Banquo's Ghost]

13/14 was exactly what I expected given the 2nd half of 12/13 we showed league winning form.

In fact, for periods under Kenny (Agger + Skrtel + Johnson + Suarez + Lucas + Meireles + Gerrard) we also showed league winning form (until the Andy Carroll/Charlie Adam/Stuart Downing demise)

I don't think it's an outlier whatsoever.

Well, I think we are going to disagree on that. There were certainly signs of improvement but we weren't really in the conversation until that amazing post Christmas run. The fact we needed such a spectacular unbeaten run to continue to the very end if we were to win it showed that we were really an outlier that year. Our improvements were realistically taking us to top four where we needed to consolidate the capability of surviving there with a full European schedule and what became the loss of a world class talent.

Our run was an outlier because we went back to mid-table norm the next year. If there had been a solid foundation built as you suggest over the preceding seasons, that would not have happened.

[The North Bank]

These days everyone is 2 defeats away from being a midtable side and 2 wins away from being a champions league side, things change so quickly that there's no point predicting anything anymore. Look at where Man Utd, Spurs, Leciester and Chelsea are. For the first time ever I feel there are no certainties.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Who cares about all this bollocks?

You either go or you don't. You either support or you don't.

If we got relegated to the Conference, I'd still support Liverpool.

Oh and we've got ANOTHER Cup Final in less than three weeks at Anfield South.

[Simplexity]

We have to get these transfers right in the summer, because once this new TV deal comes in, gone are the days a club like our side can just out spend the smaller clubs back to the top end of the table. Spending wisely is going to be more important then spending big.

Literally said every year and every year we cock it up.

We are the only club in the world that gets worse the more money we spend.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Literally said every year and every year we cock it up.

We are the only club in the world that gets worse the more money we spend.

Apart from all the other clubs in every league in every country that doesn't win the league.

[Sir Psycho Sexy]

Well, post-Rodgers we've signed Caulker on loan so far and I've no doubt that Rodgers would've taken all the heat for that if he was still here.

Maybe he would have, and it would have been unjustified. We would never have signed Caulker if our Centre Backs stayed fit. Hopefully Grugic turns out alright

[stoa]

Rodgers was offered a choice between Eto'o or Balotelli to replace Suarez when we failed to sign Sanchez. Rodgers said recently that the club thought Balotelli was a £50m striker if he could unlock that potential.

The bit in bold is what's wrong with our recruiting in recent years, in my view. We're signing players for the wrong reasons. We should sign them, because they fit the way we play and because of their mentality (i.e. they want to be here and want to work hard to constantly improve). I have no doubt that Klopp will look for those two qualities. I'm not so sure the club will provide him with those options...

[LiverpoolKopKings]

You know what will make a difference....a work attitude adjustment. We are a "midtable side" with a wallet that has us in the Top 10 richest clubs in the world. Obviously seen in the past 5 - 10 years money will not bridge the gap as we have thrown plenty of it around and if need be we can still splash out as we will have too I fear. Thing is you better make sure you are not buying a soft ass star who thinks he has succeeded just because he has the luxuries, ie the Gucci wash bag as he strolls into the stadium. If they don't do it on the field then their Gucci bags should be tossed in the bins as they are given a wake up call. Honestly we just have to clean house and those with a bit of class and a whole lot of character are kept while any new additions need to be willing to get their Armani suits dirty while lifting the coal onto their backs. Hard work is ahead and those that are cruising right now can feck off and those who want to cruise are not welcome.

Put a 5% of their wage performance related and you'll soon see their smile wiped off their faces. Devolve the "unearned" money towards keeping tickets cheaper. And that would be fair

[Redman0151]

On the topic of the thread title, we've been a midtable side for a long while now, i've long since learnt to deal with it.

For most clubs football is about the little victories, the last minute 5-4 winner at Norwich, the cup run that has you dreaming, the win over your rivals (although not so much lately..), the good day out with your mates before and after the match.


I don't think we'll get back to the top anytime soon personally, it feels like as usual behind the scenes LFC is just laughably incompetent, from the ticketing office, to the MD, to the scouting system, to the power structure being in a different continent. I'm not going to let it wind me up anymore.

[Carra-ton]

People are seeing us in too much negative light. Our squad is good, we have had too many mistakes at the back. For example, Mignolet is averaging 1.03 goals per save. That is he is nearing the stat where he will have conceded more goals than shots saved for the season.
Even the relegation keepers have better stats. You can't keep going when you have a black hole at the back.

Replace the keeper with a quality one, a decent CB, and this very team will get top 4. Perspective is lost when problems are ignored. We are a good team. Midfield can do a job against the best. We have creativity in Coutinho, Firmino, Sturridge, Lallana. Maybe Markovic.
Just cut out the mistakes at the back, and we are suddenly very good.
A large portion of those mistakes are due to Mignolet, which is something fans, LFC management and Klopp are refusing to accept.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

On the topic of the thread title, we've been a midtable side for a long while now, i've long since learnt to deal with it.

For most clubs football is about the little victories, the last minute 5-4 winner at Norwich, the cup run that has you dreaming, the win over your rivals (although not so much lately..), the good day out with your mates before and after the match.


I don't think we'll get back to the top anytime soon personally, it feels like as usual behind the scenes LFC is just laughably incompetent, from the ticketing office, to the MD, to the scouting system, to the power structure being in a different continent. I'm not going to let it wind me up anymore.

[closeThread]Is the correct answer. [/closeThread]

[Paul JH]

Lazy cliched argument.

No it isn’t.

When you sign mid table players to go alongside mid table players, you become a mid table team. When you sign mid table decent players to go in and develop with world class players, you become a better team.

We just keep signing mediocre player after mediocre player with the rare exception … and it doesn’t show any sign of stopping anytime soon.

[telekon]

Works completely differently for them. A mid table player joins Leicester expecting to prove themselves, a mid table player joins us and thinks they've made it.

Obviously this doesn't apply to all of them, like Danny Ings, but he's still young and that is expected.

You think the average professional football player today in the Premier League, working everyday since being around 10-12 (when they realized they had potential) to become the absolute best they can, joins a big team and just suddenly go "ah, whatever, now I can relax, can't be arsed after 15 years of working my ass off". Bollocks.

Lallana is suddenly not working as hard as in Southampton because he thinks "he made it" now? Clyne can't be arsed anymore?

Bollocks.

[telekon]

These days everyone is 2 defeats away from being a midtable side and 2 wins away from being a champions league side, things change so quickly that there's no point predicting anything anymore. Look at where Man Utd, Spurs, Leciester and Chelsea are. For the first time ever I feel there are no certainties.

Good point.

[Funky_Gibbons]

No it isn’t.

When you sign mid table players to go alongside mid table players, you become a mid table team. When you sign mid table decent players to go in and develop with world class players, you become a better team.

We just keep signing mediocre player after mediocre player with the rare exception … and it doesn’t show any sign of stopping anytime soon.

Which world-class players are in the Tottenham and Leicester teams? They're both sitting first and second in the league.

[telekon]

No it isn’t.

When you sign mid table players to go alongside mid table players, you become a mid table team. When you sign mid table decent players to go in and develop with world class players, you become a better team.

We just keep signing mediocre player after mediocre player with the rare exception … and it doesn’t show any sign of stopping anytime soon.

Signing Pedro really worked for Chelsea this year, didn't it? And all the other stars they bought previously. Leicester really payed up for those players from Manchester City, Real Madrid, and Bayern Munich ey?

It doesn't matter if you sign from Wrexham, West Bromwich, Fiorentina, or Real Madrid. If the player is good enough, he's good enough.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

This "we are a mid-table team now" is the kind of gibberish you hear from United fans. Were they a mid-table team when they went 25 years without winning diddly squat?

People make light of Liverpool's record over the last number of years, but since our last league title Liverpool have won 3 FA cups, 3 League cups, 1 CL, 1 EL, 2 Supercups and have had 1 treble in that time. That's more than some mid-table sides have won in their lifetime. It's hardly a record to be sniffed at.

Liverpool are also in the top 10 richest clubs in the world and are currently led by one of the most sought after managers in Europe (and anyone anyway knowledgeable would note the improvements he has brought during an incredibly difficult period of injury and transition).

What has really done the damage was a period of poor ownership, poor managerial selection and flirting with administration that left he club nearly broken in two. That has taken a long time to recover from and now people are grumbling about Liverpool being a 'mid-table side' despite only just clearing most of the debt in the last two years?

We were in the CL last year, lest we forget and are still in the EL this year, as well as the final of the LC and the FA cup (which will be some fun tonight, eh?). Exactly how many mid-tables have that record again?

I think our fans at times listen to much to the prattling of opposition fans.

I'm not interested in United mate, nor am I interested in their views when it comes to us. Yes we are a big club, with a big wallet, with big revenue, with big world-wide support, and we contradict all of that on the pitch. It's not one season or two seasons of mediocrity, bar the title challenging season from three seasons ago, we have massively under-performed. So yes we are a mid-table side on the pitch because that's how we're playing, that's where we're finishing. And we're in danger of staying there for a longer period if we don't stop making the same mistakes on all levels.

We shouldn't be there because we are a big club.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Good point.

For this season yes, but we're talking about the average finishing positions of our club for the last 8 years. I'm talking about an entire period of time. Compare our finishes to the mentioned sides [United,Chelsea]. It's not the same. For this season yes, it's very true no doubt, but overall it's a different story.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Who cares about all this bollocks?

You either go or you don't. You either support or you don't.

If we got relegated to the Conference, I'd still support Liverpool.

Oh and we've got ANOTHER Cup Final in less than three weeks at Anfield South.

Andy, who said anything about not supporting? If we were relegated God forbid, that wouldn't change a thing for me as a supporter, I still have a Liverbird tattoo on me arm and I'm proud of it, regardless of what happens to this club.

It's about our performances on the pitch.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

People are seeing us in too much negative light. Our squad is good, we have had too many mistakes at the back. For example, Mignolet is averaging 1.03 goals per save. That is he is nearing the stat where he will have conceded more goals than shots saved for the season.
Even the relegation keepers have better stats. You can't keep going when you have a black hole at the back.

Replace the keeper with a quality one, a decent CB, and this very team will get top 4. Perspective is lost when problems are ignored. We are a good team. Midfield can do a job against the best. We have creativity in Coutinho, Firmino, Sturridge, Lallana. Maybe Markovic.
Just cut out the mistakes at the back, and we are suddenly very good.
A large portion of those mistakes are due to Mignolet, which is something fans, LFC management and Klopp are refusing to accept.

We've had defensive issues before Mignolet and we continue to have them. The midfield can do a job once in a blue moon but they can't do it consistently. It's one of the worst group of players we've had in our midfield in a while. It's not good enough consistently and neither is our defending along with our goalkeeper.

[MNAA]

Who cares about all this bollocks?

You either go or you don't. You either support or you don't.

If we got relegated to the Conference, I'd still support Liverpool.

This ... And don't worry. Will get used to it ... whatever it will be. During our hey days, 2nd was almost unthinkable. Since 1990, always hoping that the next season will be the 19th. Now 26 years later, an older me still hoping that next season will be the season

I am a Liverpool fan till I die. Mid-table or not, does not matter

[Anfield89]

Andy, who said anything about not supporting? If we were relegated God forbid, that wouldn't change a thing for me as a supporter, I still have a Liverbird tattoo on me arm and I'm proud of it, regardless of what happens to this club.

It's about our performances on the pitch.

This forum, other social media and the ground would be a lot lighter though if we went down to the conference. Dealing with being where you are at any given time is easy.

[tubby]

Who cares about all this bollocks?

You either go or you don't. You either support or you don't.

If we got relegated to the Conference, I'd still support Liverpool.

Oh and we've got ANOTHER Cup Final in less than three weeks at Anfield South.

Who indeed.

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=306998.0

[Nick110581]

No it isn’t.

When you sign mid table players to go alongside mid table players, you become a mid table team. When you sign mid table decent players to go in and develop with world class players, you become a better team.

We just keep signing mediocre player after mediocre player with the rare exception … and it doesn’t show any sign of stopping anytime soon.

My argument is it doesn't matter what club they come from if they are the right fit.

[thelinnen]

You think the average professional football player today in the Premier League, working everyday since being around 10-12 (when they realized they had potential) to become the absolute best they can, joins a big team and just suddenly go "ah, whatever, now I can relax, can't be arsed after 15 years of working my ass off". Bollocks.

Lallana is suddenly not working as hard as in Southampton because he thinks "he made it" now? Clyne can't be arsed anymore?

Bollocks.

Lallana can work as hard as he wants, his output compared to his last season at Southampton is horrific. He's the other type of mid table signing we make, the one who can't replicate their form for some reason or another (my guess would be the club being too big for them).

[Butcher Knife Roberto]

No coincidence that since ownership went Stateside the team slid down the pan into a comfortable, ticking over, making plenty of money mid table comfort. Yeah it was a gradual thing over a couple of seasons after the original cowboys took over. But under Moores and Parry, even though they were more like the Chuckle Brothers than high flying business men, we had a quiet, Liverpool way of doing things. It also helped that we had 2 great managers in Houllier and Benitez during that time who had the complete support of their directors. And we had that habit of winning things. Title challenges are good but mean nothing unless you fucking win them.

Like I've said in other threads, teams these days are trying to be like fuckin Barcelona, Real Madrid and Man United. We've just forgotten how to be Liverpool.

[GinKop]

Thats what gets me the most.

We were back in the champions league after being closest to the league since we've won it.... and then we PISS IT ALL AWAY.

Classic us hey?

Every near miss over the last 20 years has been followed up by an utter capitulation. There has been no signs whatsoever that the decision makers are capable of building the club and using the resources we've been given effectively.

Our stand out season since 2009 was driven by Luis Suarez. I don't think I'll ever see a better player pull on the shirt in my lifetime. I shudder to imagine what would have been without him. And the realistic prospect is that we will not see an individual talent like his again for another generation. Klopp gives us a chance of being great again. But if he doesn't get to do it his own way (his players, his ideas and his tactics), we are screwed.

[DonkeyWan]

I'm not interested in United mate, nor am I interested in their views when it comes to us. Yes we are a big club, with a big wallet, with big revenue, with big world-wide support, and we contradict all of that on the pitch. It's not one season or two seasons of mediocrity, bar the title challenging season from three seasons ago, we have massively under-performed. So yes we are a mid-table side on the pitch because that's how we're playing, that's where we're finishing. And we're in danger of staying there for a longer period if we don't stop making the same mistakes on all levels.

We shouldn't be there because we are a big club.

I'm not interested in United mate, nor am I interested in their views when it comes to us. Yes we are a big club, with a big wallet, with big revenue, with big world-wide support, and we contradict all of that on the pitch. It's not one season or two seasons of mediocrity, bar the title challenging season from three seasons ago, we have massively under-performed. So yes we are a mid-table side on the pitch because that's how we're playing, that's where we're finishing. And we're in danger of staying there for a longer period if we don't stop making the same mistakes on all levels.

We shouldn't be there because we are a big club.

So, are you just going to ignore the whole '2nd two years ago, CL last season, new manager and lots on injuries factors' to this season?'

Seriously, I think the club is totally going in the right direction, most of the players are good solid ones, with a few top class additions, a bit of patience and a few clever additions to the spine and the team will look heaps better. Think people are over-reacting to poor season (with caveats all over the place). Rather than worry about 'mid-table obscurity', why not pause and consider;

Arsenal are doing yet another Arsenal - Wenger must be near retirement and then what? City are bringing in Guardiola, yes, but if you honestly think his impact will be anything like that at Barca, you are underestimating the import of the Barca youth sides (300 of the buggers, from all over Spain and Latin America, any wonder they churn them out... no one talks about their cast offs and broken dreams, but I digress). United are hilarious at the minute, no doubt they will continue to implode and spend big but still under achieve. Chelsea are an aging team of dickhead mercs that aren't spending as much as they used to. Spurs are out biggest threat if you ask me, and they are about to build a new stadium and ruin themselves for a few years (even Levy said that).

10 years ago Liverpool were competitive and still were held off the top spot by the big boys. 2 years ago Liverpool nearly won it, which shows how the insurmountable barrier has become mountable, all the top sides are waning at the moment. Meanwhile, despite the results and some performances suggesting otherwise, Liverpool are in a great position to kick on. The finances are healthy, a new stand is nearly completed, (the ticket farago aside) more fans than ever will be able to make the atmosphere great, the club will be awash with cash, the squad is solid if unspectacular and most importantly its a very young one and we have a hot property manager ready to embark on training and developing the side, as well as attracting some of the best talent around due to his reputation and status.

I'm incredibly positive about the future, snickering down my sleeve at all the dullard opposition fans trumpeting our demise while their own clubs face up to looming hardship (again, an aside, LFCs nearest rivals, celebrating nearly being taken over for £200m... peanuts and indicative of how much trouble they are in... they want to use 300m to build a new stadium! while having the second oldest squad in the PL and revenues 85% dependent on TV money. One wrong move and they will do a villa). I can't understand the negativity, I really can't.

[GinKop]

Seriously, I think the club is totally going in the right direction, most of the players are good solid ones, with a few top class additions, a bit of patience and a few clever additions to the spine and the team will look heaps better. Think people are over-reacting to poor season (with caveats all over the place). Rather than worry about 'mid-table obscurity', why not pause and consider;

When the decision makers are not fit for purpose to address the areas in bold, there is genuine and real cause for concern. Our only saving grace is Klopp.

The egos at the club will determine our future success. There is only one of them that I would trust and we are lucky to have him. If his expertise and knowledge is used in the right way we will be fine. If he become frustrated because of committees, breakdowns between club and supporter etc. he does not need to stick around and become a casualty of this utter mess of a club that we all love so much.