Author Topic: Liverpool's defence - Giraffes, Walls and Automobiles  (Read 168263 times)

Online Fiasco

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #80 on: November 10, 2016, 02:17:21 pm »
We don`t have to, last 9 games we conceded more than 1 goal only on 1 occasion. To compare, in 13/14 we conceded more than 1 goal 16 times out of 38 -- that`s almost half the times during the entire league season we had to score 3+ goals to win. This time it`s different and not nearly as bad.

It's different because Klopp has the defenders set up to utilize their strengths and limit their weaknesses. Take Lovren for example. Under Rodgers the central defenders would split very wide and Gerrard would come deep to collect the ball. The full backs pushed up yet when the ball was turned over Lovren was left one-v-one against pacey attackers on the wing. It never ended well. Under Klopp, Lovren isn't out on the wing isolated a lot. I can count on one hand the amount of times it's happened. As a result his performances have improved because Klopp is doing simple things by setting up the defence much better than Rodgers.

My point wasn't about scoring 5 a game, that was just a mad number in relation to recent performances. My point was that another Burnley will likely happen. Or we'll only score one goal and our sloppiness at the back will mean 3 points turn into 1. In a title race you cannot afford for it to happen.


Offline jimbo1962

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #81 on: November 10, 2016, 02:20:05 pm »
interesting observation. you can live with one goal against you in the reasonable expectation that Pool will get a couple of goals or more.

Offline Commodore64

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #82 on: November 10, 2016, 02:20:41 pm »
I don't think there's much of an argument against improving our defence. Like, yes, really, we should. You know, good idea. But here's there thing about defending, it's not an individual thing. Yes, it is important for the individual to concentrate and be of a high standard, but you have very solid defensive units build from non-top quality players. Why? It's because defending together, in that system, is vitally important for clean sheets and good defending. Our back four, and central midfield - which is very much part of a good defensive system - will have to be allowed to develop, and get to know the game of their other players. It's so vitally important to do that, because defences tend to grow and develop rather than just appear out of nowhere.

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #83 on: November 10, 2016, 02:26:20 pm »
It's different because Klopp has the defenders set up to utilize their strengths and limit their weaknesses. Take Lovren for example. Under Rodgers the central defenders would split very wide and Gerrard would come deep to collect the ball. The full backs pushed up yet when the ball was turned over Lovren was left one-v-one against pacey attackers on the wing. It never ended well. Under Klopp, Lovren isn't out on the wing isolated a lot. I can count on one hand the amount of times it's happened. As a result his performances have improved because Klopp is doing simple things by setting up the defence much better than Rodgers.

My point wasn't about scoring 5 a game, that was just a mad number in relation to recent performances. My point was that another Burnley will likely happen. Or we'll only score one goal and our sloppiness at the back will mean 3 points turn into 1. In a title race you cannot afford for it to happen.
It will happen to everyone because it's a low scoring sport. Chelsea and City's defences have gifted points to teams already this season in probably worse fashion than that Burnely game.


Online Fiasco

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #84 on: November 10, 2016, 02:28:39 pm »
It will happen to everyone because it's a low scoring sport. Chelsea and City's defences have gifted points to teams already this season in probably worse fashion than that Burnely game.

What do you mean by low scoring mate? As in traditionally? I thought the recent trend (past decade or so) has seen a hell of a lot more goals scored as teams move on from 4-4-2 and 4-5-1 and play with more freedom. There is a reason why they sometimes say defending is a dying art!

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #85 on: November 10, 2016, 02:30:45 pm »
It's different because Klopp has the defenders set up to utilize their strengths and limit their weaknesses. Take Lovren for example. Under Rodgers the central defenders would split very wide and Gerrard would come deep to collect the ball. The full backs pushed up yet when the ball was turned over Lovren was left one-v-one against pacey attackers on the wing. It never ended well. Under Klopp, Lovren isn't out on the wing isolated a lot. I can count on one hand the amount of times it's happened. As a result his performances have improved because Klopp is doing simple things by setting up the defence much better than Rodgers.

My point wasn't about scoring 5 a game, that was just a mad number in relation to recent performances. My point was that another Burnley will likely happen. Or we'll only score one goal and our sloppiness at the back will mean 3 points turn into 1. In a title race you cannot afford for it to happen.

Some good points but just going to pull you up on the last one.

We are not the only team to have dropped points in this fashion this season (and unlike some, we've actually only done it once). Chelsea did it against Swansea, City now have no less than 3 home score-draws against lesser opposition. Arsenal have conceded in every game that they have won besides two.

Yes our defence could do with a bit of work, primarily because many of our goals conceded have been so easily avoidable but ultimately the competition in the league this year is strong and teams will score if you give them even a whiff of goal.

We have one of the lowest shots conceded in the league so aside from 'mistakes' the system is pretty robust... so far.

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #86 on: November 10, 2016, 02:36:52 pm »
Some good points but just going to pull you up on the last one.

We are not the only team to have dropped points in this fashion this season (and unlike some, we've actually only done it once). Chelsea did it against Swansea, City now have no less than 3 home score-draws against lesser opposition. Arsenal have conceded in every game that they have won besides two.

Yes our defence could do with a bit of work, primarily because many of our goals conceded have been so easily avoidable but ultimately the competition in the league this year is strong and teams will score if you give them even a whiff of goal.

We have one of the lowest shots conceded in the league so aside from 'mistakes' the system is pretty robust... so far.

I don't disagree mate but sloppiness and stupid goals have cost us 2 titles in the past few years. Forget Gerrard's slip or whatever else. Conceding silly goals and players making stupid individual mistakes have cost us dearly and I don't want it to cost us again.

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #87 on: November 10, 2016, 02:45:03 pm »
What do you mean by low scoring mate? As in traditionally? I thought the recent trend (past decade or so) has seen a hell of a lot more goals scored as teams move on from 4-4-2 and 4-5-1 and play with more freedom. There is a reason why they sometimes say defending is a dying art!
Average goals a game is under 3, from the early 90s onward it's been around 2.5-2.8 in England, it's not easy to score in football. So there's going to be games no matter who you are where it just doesn't click or the opposition get a lucky/wonder goal or two and you can't do much about it. If you look at City's results in 13/14 they lost to Sunderland, Cardiff and Villa, three of the bottom 7 teams, drew with Sunderland and Norwich as well. Obviously the better you are the less likely that is to happen, but it's kind of crazy to think you can't allow it.

Offline LJA

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #88 on: November 10, 2016, 02:47:38 pm »
I don't think you can be 11 games into the season only having kept 1 clean sheet (against a team who didn't try and score) and claim that the defence is in any way 'rejuvenated'.

Agree with this. We are letting in soft goals nearly every game despite dominating all the games. I don't see how some of you are moaning about pundits pointing it out. based on their interviews, Klopp and players are clearly aware it's something we need to improve on.

Seems like because some people go over the top with how bad we are at defending that people on here have to overrate how well be have done defensively so far. However, there has been some improvement and I'm hopeful we'll keep more clean sheets soon.

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #89 on: November 10, 2016, 02:53:45 pm »
Average goals a game is under 3, from the early 90s onward it's been around 2.5-2.8 in England, it's not easy to score in football. So there's going to be games no matter who you are where it just doesn't click or the opposition get a lucky/wonder goal or two and you can't do much about it. If you look at City's results in 13/14 they lost to Sunderland, Cardiff and Villa, three of the bottom 7 teams, drew with Sunderland and Norwich as well. Obviously the better you are the less likely that is to happen, but it's kind of crazy to think you can't allow it.

I'm not saying we 'can't allow it', football is a sport and anything can happen. But we have a painful history with it. We've not won a title in a quarter of a century and when we almost have the last twice we've conceded stupid fucking goals that meant we fell short. It's quite personal for us.

I don't want to be sitting here next summer thinking 'that fucking Burnley result', or 'that stupid penalty we conceded in the last minute when we were 1-0 up.' If you don't learn from your mistakes then you'll continue to repeat them.


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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #90 on: November 10, 2016, 02:59:20 pm »
Agree with this. We are letting in soft goals nearly every game despite dominating all the games. I don't see how some of you are moaning about pundits pointing it out. based on their interviews, Klopp and players are clearly aware it's something we need to improve on.

Seems like because some people go over the top with how bad we are at defending that people on here have to overrate how well be have done defensively so far. However, there has been some improvement and I'm hopeful we'll keep more clean sheets soon.

Playing devil's advocate: it is possible that some of the sloppy goals conceded have been due to over-confidence when we're already heavily up against a team?

We haven't actually conceded that many goals in tight games so far.

I couldn't care less if we don't keep a clean sheet in games where we score 4-6 goals. It only becomes a problem when you concede a sloppy one in a tight game where you only have a 1-2 goal margin.

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #91 on: November 10, 2016, 03:10:16 pm »
Seems like because some people go over the top with how bad we are at defending that people on here have to overrate how well be have done defensively so far. However, there has been some improvement and I'm hopeful we'll keep more clean sheets soon.
It`s not about overrating us defensively it`s about recognizing tons of evidence suggesting we are doing plenty of things right, which means in the long run we can only get better.

We concede the least amount of shots in the whole division which is a huge deal, it suggest our front 6 is working incredibly hard to defend from the front and make it difficult for opposition to reach our final third, but then you don`t need stats to see that , it`s pretty much obvious. This is far cry from the 13/14 team where our back 4 was protected by a 34-year old single pivot while teams were waltzing through our middle at consummate ease for being coached by a manager who never put much emphasis on our organization without the ball as much as Klopp does.


Offline Chalky Boots

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #92 on: November 10, 2016, 04:22:48 pm »
That's basically the crux of the argument isn't it? The defence is 'rejuvenated' because it's working like a cohesive unit and will, at some point, start to reap the rewards of the display.

That's basically what wasn't happening under Rodgers. There were moments and I think our shots against wasn't that high but the percentage of shots conceded and the number of clear cut chances conceded was quite a bit worse than it is under Klopp, especially this season.

There visibly appears to be structure to our defence now, from back to front and we haven't had that really since Benitez; Kenny was solid but we were so hilariously inept at dealing with a turnaround in possession and that was a similar case under Brendan bar we controlled things a bit better to stop it being so glaring but at the same to became worse in other areas i.e stopping crosses, defending far post amongst others.

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #93 on: November 10, 2016, 06:50:39 pm »
Playing devil's advocate: it is possible that some of the sloppy goals conceded have been due to over-confidence when we're already heavily up against a team?

We haven't actually conceded that many goals in tight games so far.

I couldn't care less if we don't keep a clean sheet in games where we score 4-6 goals. It only becomes a problem when you concede a sloppy one in a tight game where you only have a 1-2 goal margin.

You can kind of see that in the table here:
http://objective-football.blogspot.co.uk/2016/08/201617-goal-data.html
10 of the 14 goals we have conceded have been whilst we have been ahead - 71% of our goals, the most of any team and way ahead of the league average of 25%.

Offline LJA

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #94 on: November 10, 2016, 06:53:38 pm »
It`s not about overrating us defensively it`s about recognizing tons of evidence suggesting we are doing plenty of things right, which means in the long run we can only get better.

We concede the least amount of shots in the whole division which is a huge deal, it suggest our front 6 is working incredibly hard to defend from the front and make it difficult for opposition to reach our final third, but then you don`t need stats to see that , it`s pretty much obvious. This is far cry from the 13/14 team where our back 4 was protected by a 34-year old single pivot while teams were waltzing through our middle at consummate ease for being coached by a manager who never put much emphasis on our organization without the ball as much as Klopp does.

We have actually let in more goals this season than this stage in the 13/14 season. We also had 4 clean sheets after 11 games that season. If we carry on conceding at the rate we are we'll concede only around  goals less than the 13/14 team did. Hardly a massive improvement defensively so far. I do expect us to improve and start keeping clean sheets and I'm not complaining about anything the team is doing but would have been an good idea to boast about how good we are defensively when we actually stop conceding silly goals and manage to keep clean sheets.

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #95 on: November 10, 2016, 06:54:04 pm »
We don`t have to, last 9 games we conceded more than 1 goal only on 1 occasion. To compare, in 13/14 we conceded more than 1 goal 16 times out of 38 -- that`s almost half the times during the entire league season we had to score 3+ goals to win. This time it`s different and not nearly as bad.

Good point - we've conceded 0 or 1 in 73% of our league games so far, a rate we've only bettered once (76% in 2011/12) in the past seven seasons.

As we average two goals per game for, we're sorted ;-)

Offline SerbianScouser

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #96 on: November 10, 2016, 07:11:00 pm »
If we carry on conceding at the rate we are we'll concede only around  goals less than the 13/14 team did.
If you include those two games before Matip came in you`ll have a false picture of our defensive ability in the same way our league position last season was a false position -- since mid-February our attacking numbers have improved massively but it was too late to reflect in our table position especially as we were too busy in EL anyway. Something very similar we`re seeing now with our defensive numbers.

On the surface our defensive record doesn`t look great this season but if in addition to our goals conceded we were for example conceding an exorbitant amount of shots, chances plus people cutting us open at will in games then you`d have a case of implying we`re seeing something similar to 13/14 but the fact of the matter is there are some valid positives to take from our defensive performances so far as a team which gives us legitimate hope we`ll finish at 35-40 goals conceded which is exactly what we need in our title challenge as we`re on pace to score over 90 goals easily.

Offline LJA

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #97 on: November 10, 2016, 07:16:30 pm »
If you include those two games before Matip came in you`ll have a false picture of our defensive ability in the same way our league position last season was a false position -- since mid-February our attacking numbers have improved massively but it was too late to reflect in our table position especially as we were too busy in EL anyway. Something very similar we`re seeing now with our defensive numbers.

On the surface our defensive record doesn`t look great this season but if in addition to our goals conceded we were for example conceding an exorbitant amount of shots, chances plus people cutting us open at will in games then you`d have a case of implying we`re seeing something similar to 13/14 but the fact of the matter is there are some valid positives to take from our defensive performances so far as a team which gives us legitimate hope we`ll finish at 35-40 goals conceded which is exactly what we need in our title challenge as we`re on pace to score over 90 goals easily.

We can't pick and choose what games we include.  What if Matip gets injured. Are we not going to count those games if we concede goals as well? Of course there are positives but it's far too early for people to be talking like this.

Offline PoetryInMotion

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #98 on: November 11, 2016, 08:38:07 am »
I don't disagree mate but sloppiness and stupid goals have cost us 2 titles in the past few years. Forget Gerrard's slip or whatever else. Conceding silly goals and players making stupid individual mistakes have cost us dearly and I don't want it to cost us again.

We may have conceded some bad goals under Brendan, but this defense set-up under Klopp is much better. Don't fall under the narrative of pundits/opposition fans.

You may want to check the thread Using stats to talk about Liverpool where there's a comparison of the 2013-14 team and the current one and the difference is clearly there to see. We're better at both ends of the pitch.

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #99 on: November 12, 2016, 04:32:06 am »
I was looking at things, our defence needs some numbers going forward. 

Let's ignore youth players for a minute and focus on the seniors.   Let's also make the assumption there's no way back for Sakho.

Our first XI is great.

LB Milner           CB     Lovren          CB Matip             RB Clyne


Our cover for injuries looks a lot weaker though.


LB Moreno         CB     Klavan          CB Lucas            RB Gomez/Randall


Oddly I think LB is fine, for all the cries of "We need a left back!" in the summer.

CB cover looks relatively weak,I think we need to find a Sakho replacement ASAP.

RB lacks cover too, we will see if Joe Gomez can play at the same level after his injuries. 

If we got an injury to a CB or RB, we're gonna have some problems.

I'm really hoping Sturridge busts out the wacky dip when he scores.

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #100 on: November 12, 2016, 05:35:57 am »
If Sakho is going to be sold in January I wouldn't be surprised if Klopp signs an extra defender.
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Offline PoetryInMotion

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #101 on: November 12, 2016, 05:54:14 am »
I was looking at things, our defence needs some numbers going forward. 

Let's ignore youth players for a minute and focus on the seniors.   Let's also make the assumption there's no way back for Sakho.

Our first XI is great.

LB Milner           CB     Lovren          CB Matip             RB Clyne


Our cover for injuries looks a lot weaker though.


LB Moreno         CB     Klavan          CB Lucas            RB Gomez/Randall


Oddly I think LB is fine, for all the cries of "We need a left back!" in the summer.

CB cover looks relatively weak,I think we need to find a Sakho replacement ASAP.

RB lacks cover too, we will see if Joe Gomez can play at the same level after his injuries. 

If we got an injury to a CB or RB, we're gonna have some problems.

RB we Alexander-Arnold, who's looking promising. Joe Gomez should come in as a center-back.

Offline SerbianScouser

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #102 on: November 19, 2016, 06:22:06 pm »
Since Matip came in -- 10 games 0 defeats, 9 goals conceded, only once we conceded more than 1 goal in those 10 games.  If we continue with this trend of the last 10 games of 0.9 goals conceded per game our defensive record will finally be satisfactory this season. And we`re still the team that concedes the least amount of shots in game by far.

Defence is getting stronger and stronger every week, long may it continue.

Offline bodhisattva

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #103 on: November 19, 2016, 06:33:56 pm »
this is what front foot aggressive defending is supposed to look like and it's allowing us to completely dominate teams to the point where they virtually have
no attacking threat. Matip looks very comfortable bringing the ball into midfield too which gives us another dimension on the ball.

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #104 on: November 19, 2016, 06:38:06 pm »
Other than the first 2 games of the season the defense has been great to be honest. We don't concede much from open play.

Such an upgrade on Skrtel
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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #105 on: November 19, 2016, 07:00:55 pm »
Other than the first 2 games of the season the defense has been great to be honest. We don't concede much from open play.

Such an upgrade on Skrtel
Skrtel served us well.
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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #106 on: November 20, 2016, 04:05:45 am »
Skrtel served us well.

Yes he did over a very long period - but Matip is a clear upgrade on the Skrtel of the last season or so. We can be happy that we now have Joel Matip in his prime without any disrespect to a former warrior.
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Offline xbugawugax

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #107 on: November 20, 2016, 04:13:10 am »
the more i look at our defence the more i wish sakho is a bit more mature. Not saying lovren is bad though.

Would love to see matip/sakho partnership. Both front foot defenders with great passing ability.




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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #108 on: November 20, 2016, 09:20:59 am »
Compared to other sides in the top half, barring Spurs and Chelsea, there isn't that much wrong with our defence at the moment. We've conceded the same amount Utd and Everton have, only two more than Arsenal and three more than City. Now when you take into consideration the style of aggressive attacking football our manager wants us to play, it's actually not that bad a record at all so far. Our GD is a lot better than Arsenal's, Tottenham's, Utd's and Everton's as well. Also if you look at the table as it stands, the four highest scoring teams occupy the top four positions in the league in the correct order of goals scored. 1) Liverpool(30) 2) Man City(27) 3) Chelsea(26) 4) Arsenal(25). So if that current trend continues, it's looking like the team who can score the most goals/outscore the most teams, is probably going to be the team that wins the league this season. Not the team that has the most watertight defence or keeps the most clean sheets, like most of the people in the media and football pundits keep telling us.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2016, 09:22:44 am by The 'd'Esk »

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #109 on: November 20, 2016, 09:44:55 am »
Odd that the only 2 times we have managed a clean sheet lately are the only times we didn't win.

Offline Solomon Grundy

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #110 on: November 20, 2016, 09:47:21 am »
Odd that the only 2 times we have managed a clean sheet lately are the only times we didn't win.

 Both games coming straight after internationals as well.

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #111 on: November 20, 2016, 06:33:28 pm »
Compared to other sides in the top half, barring Spurs and Chelsea, there isn't that much wrong with our defence at the moment. We've conceded the same amount Utd and Everton have, only two more than Arsenal and three more than City. Now when you take into consideration the style of aggressive attacking football our manager wants us to play, it's actually not that bad a record at all so far. Our GD is a lot better than Arsenal's, Tottenham's, Utd's and Everton's as well. Also if you look at the table as it stands, the four highest scoring teams occupy the top four positions in the league in the correct order of goals scored. 1) Liverpool(30) 2) Man City(27) 3) Chelsea(26) 4) Arsenal(25). So if that current trend continues, it's looking like the team who can score the most goals/outscore the most teams, is probably going to be the team that wins the league this season. Not the team that has the most watertight defence or keeps the most clean sheets, like most of the people in the media and football pundits keep telling us.
Not to mention fixtures...

Arsenal A
Chelsea A
Spurs A
United H
Saints A

Offline Solomon Grundy

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #112 on: November 20, 2016, 07:10:57 pm »
Not to mention fixtures...

Arsenal A
Chelsea A
Spurs A
United H
Saints A


 Yep. Some very tough fixtures now out of the way as well mate.

Offline Medellin

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #113 on: November 20, 2016, 07:24:43 pm »
Just read that yesterday was the first time in 12 years the Saints have failed to muster a shot on target.
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Offline King Klopp.

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #114 on: November 26, 2016, 05:26:53 pm »
9 conceded in the last 11 games. Probably only 5 or 6 of those are from open play so we're really getting a lot better.
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Offline rscanderlech

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #115 on: November 26, 2016, 06:16:31 pm »
Yes, indeed. It looks like Karius is starting to settle and that will only improve things, especially at set pieces.

The only criticisms I can make are that we don't have a reliable left back who is actually left-footed, and that we probably rely a little too much on Matip. But of course last season we couldn't even mention having a top class CB, and we didn't even have a reliable left-back who was right-footed!

It's quite wonderful watching us win the ball back with our pressing and shut down attacks.

Offline Johnny B. Goode

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #116 on: November 26, 2016, 06:27:57 pm »
I think we're definitely in a stronger position than in 13/14.

If we look at the table, we have the 5th best defence in the league amongst the top 10 (tied with United and Everton, both still to play this round), but the best attack by some distance (+3 on City, 4 on Chelsea and 7 on Arsenal). Crucially, though, we haven't dropped any points due to defensive failures. We've failed to win 4 games, and only in 1 one of those did we drop points for being unable to defend our lead. That was Spurs away, which is understandable. It wasn't really a mistake from our defence anyway, and if anything our new keeper might have saved that. We also conceded 3 goals in games where we were in full control: Leicester, Hull and Watford. Only the Leicester game has a small claim of being dodgy for a few minutes there, but even then it was a bizarre brain fart rather than a structural problem.

We're not going to have the best defensive record in the league, but we are roaming around the top 6 for goals conceded and that's with at least a couple of them coming in games where we had a 3/4 goal lead at home. With a new keeper just settling in, we should improve on that record provided we stay injury-free at the back.
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Offline wemmick

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #117 on: November 26, 2016, 06:35:36 pm »
On track to concede about 41 goals this season. If we can get it down to 38, we'll have a title challenging defense, let alone top 4. :D

Offline Haggis36

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #118 on: November 26, 2016, 06:43:09 pm »
The only criticism I have at the moment is that Lovren and Matip really should score more goals given some of the positions they find themselves in unchallenged, I can think of at least 3 or 4 occasions off the top of my head that should have been goals.

Then again, the fact that that is my only gripe speaks volumes to how good these two have been this season.

Offline John C

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #119 on: November 26, 2016, 08:15:23 pm »
The only criticism I have at the moment is that Lovren and Matip really should score more goals given some of the positions they find themselves in unchallenged, I can think of at least 3 or 4 occasions off the top of my head that should have been goals.

Then again, the fact that that is my only gripe speaks volumes to how good these two have been this season.
That's if you seek to criticise mate :) Lovren's goal against Dortmond buys him a decade's drought and Matip's header against Palace illustrates he'll contribute accordingly.
I really couldn't be happier with our 2 CB's presently, both solid on the deck and in the air, both composed and assuring, but most importantly is how they compliment each other.

We persevered with Skrtel for years and suddenly landed ourselves a great pairing. Lovren's form will save Klopp £20m or so.