Author Topic: Liverpool's defence - Giraffes, Walls and Automobiles  (Read 168839 times)

Offline Fiasco

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #240 on: December 5, 2016, 12:50:40 am »
We've never seen Sakho Matip have we? Klopp should bring him back just for the childish joke when they pass the ball to each other from the commentator.

I really think they'd compliment each other well. We'll never get to see it for obvious reasons but they would have gelled nicely, I think.

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #241 on: December 7, 2016, 09:09:30 pm »
van Djik is worth £40m ?? Ridiculous, how much is Varane worth then ffs


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Offline edge

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #242 on: December 7, 2016, 09:23:50 pm »
van Djik is worth £40m ?? Ridiculous, how much is Varane worth then ffs


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Blame Chelsea/PSG for their money-laundering-smelling back and forth-transfer of Luiz.

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #243 on: December 8, 2016, 08:04:35 am »
Lucas as CB at home I get.

Lucas at CB in a difficult away game I don't get. Call me old fashioned but in this league, away from home, I like my CBs toothless and gnarly.
But he's the likeable dressing room presence.
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Offline LJA

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread feat. Gerry and the Bedwetters
« Reply #244 on: December 11, 2016, 09:37:21 pm »
We are still awful defensively. This thread was started after our games against Palace and Watford where over the two games we let in three soft goals despite dominating both games. We had only kept one clean sheet at that point. It seemed a silly time to have loads of people talking about how much better we are defensively.

At this rate we will let in the same amount of goals as we did in the 2013/2014 season. We have let in the most goals in the top six. WBA, Everton, Watford, Southampton and Middlesbrough have conceded less than us. We have looked shaky all season and give away so many silly goals

There are many positives to come from out first 15 games  but our defending isn't one of them.

Offline 007.lankyguy

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread feat. Gerry and the Bedwetters
« Reply #245 on: December 11, 2016, 09:41:01 pm »
Define what you mean by 'defence' because a lot of this discussion hinges on what exactly you're referring to.
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Offline Goalposts for Jumpers

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread feat. Gerry and the Bedwetters
« Reply #246 on: December 31, 2016, 07:55:30 pm »
Haven't seen City create so little in a match this season. In fact, no match i've witnessed they've been anywhere near as toothless as tonight.

Big shout out to Klavan, thought he was immense in reading the game, and given he was on a yellow from quite early on, he had to tread a very fine line.

Well in reds.

Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread feat. Gerry and the Bedwetters
« Reply #247 on: December 31, 2016, 07:59:11 pm »
Conceded one goal in our last four games, defending great.
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Offline lastbaron

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread feat. Gerry and the Bedwetters
« Reply #248 on: December 31, 2016, 08:00:12 pm »
Klavan is a ROCK! Great defensive performance by the whole team, but extra credit to the back four as they won every single 1v1 situation they were in.

Offline sms1986

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread feat. Gerry and the Bedwetters
« Reply #249 on: December 31, 2016, 08:03:55 pm »
I've just noticed the thread title, but I like it! ;D

Offline Cpt_Reina

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread feat. Gerry and the Bedwetters
« Reply #250 on: December 31, 2016, 08:10:17 pm »
Such a shame Lovren needs Matip to babysit him through games  ;D

Happy new year you doubtful pricks.

Offline FlashGordon

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #251 on: December 31, 2016, 08:12:33 pm »
Matip has missed three games. We've conceded 9 goals. Absolute joke of a defence without him.

Did alright recently?
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Offline PoetryInMotion

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread feat. Gerry and the Bedwetters
« Reply #252 on: December 31, 2016, 08:26:23 pm »
The knee-jerking when we concede a few goals - defense is shaky, goalkeeper is shambles, blah blah.

Nice to have a few games without all that.

Lovren and Klavan are looking good together now. Just like Matip and Lovren were.

Offline dogeibbor

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread feat. Gerry and the Bedwetters
« Reply #253 on: January 1, 2017, 09:47:10 am »
Very impressive display yesterday, didn't even miss Matip. This is what happens when you build a TEAM. You can replace parts of it and it still functions, we attack and defend as a unit. 

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread feat. Gerry and the Bedwetters
« Reply #254 on: January 1, 2017, 10:19:49 am »
Very impressive display yesterday, didn't even miss Matip. This is what happens when you build a TEAM. You can replace parts of it and it still functions, we attack and defend as a unit. 

Eggzackerly. Phil injured? Mane off to AFCON? Bobby and Karius off form? The Team responds.

Remember, there's no I in team, but there is in piss weak bedwetters.
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Offline jepovic

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread feat. Gerry and the Bedwetters
« Reply #255 on: January 1, 2017, 11:31:13 am »
Klavan and Lovren do well individually, but what I love the most is the shape of the back four. For years now, basically ever since Rafa left, we've seen Liverpool defenders being all over the place. Basically, we've had four defenders scrambling individually. Lovren was one of the worst culprits when he came.

Last night they had a perfect line, with FBs a yard higher. Press together, drop together. Beautiful stuff. I've seen Sakho or Matip have just as good games individually, but I can't remember the last time we had such a synchronized back four.

Offline xbugawugax

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread feat. Gerry and the Bedwetters
« Reply #256 on: January 1, 2017, 11:50:47 am »
the phrase there is no I in team has never been more apt

the defence was rock solid and each and everyone of the players had support when they were beaten. We never looked like capitulating even in the spell when city was on top.

Klavan and Milly were standouts in this game. Pep targeted the left side and we handled the threat magnificently.

oh and that juggle by mig outside the box ;D

its a shame we dont have keepers comfortable with their feet

Offline Frizzo

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread feat. Gerry and the Bedwetters
« Reply #257 on: January 1, 2017, 12:04:24 pm »


oh and that juggle by mig outside the box ;D

its a shame we dont have keepers comfortable with their feet

Like the one they bought to replace Hart because he's so good with his feet?

Offline McrRed

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread feat. Gerry and the Bedwetters
« Reply #258 on: January 1, 2017, 12:42:24 pm »

Like the one they bought to replace Hart because he's so good with his feet?
See courtois shank the ball behind him yesterday?

We're doing ok.

Offline pyroparty

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread feat. Gerry and the Bedwetters
« Reply #259 on: January 1, 2017, 12:46:33 pm »
Mig is definitely playing better lately. I like him when he seems annoyed about something or has something to prove, it's when he goes back to the meek fella he struggles a bit but right now he's dominating his area and coming off his line. Hopefully it continues for a long time!

And once again we defend really well when we need to, theres never been any context to the criticism.  Or praise about how we up it when needed. Chelsea, Spurs and City's least creative matches this season? All against us, the team who apparently cant defend.
« Last Edit: January 1, 2017, 12:48:25 pm by pyroparty »

Offline LJA

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread feat. Gerry and the Bedwetters
« Reply #260 on: January 1, 2017, 02:45:19 pm »
Mig is definitely playing better lately. I like him when he seems annoyed about something or has something to prove, it's when he goes back to the meek fella he struggles a bit but right now he's dominating his area and coming off his line. Hopefully it continues for a long time!

And once again we defend really well when we need to, theres never been any context to the criticism.  Or praise about how we up it when needed. Chelsea, Spurs and City's least creative matches this season? All against us, the team who apparently cant defend.

Mig has been really good since he has come back in. Only thing he has done wrong was the goal against against Stoke and there were two other players who have to share the blame for that. He's looking more confidant. Hope it continues.   

Offline SerbianScouser

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread feat. Gerry and the Bedwetters
« Reply #261 on: January 1, 2017, 03:05:03 pm »
I`m not the one to enjoy defensive football but last night I loved every second of it. Their last attempt was on 60th minute, Aguero with 0 touches in the box etc. It was just gorgeous , it's kind of restriction of opposition that Simeone would have been proud of. Hopefully we'll now use this know how next time we're couple of goals up away from home with half an hour to go to shut up shot, stay disciplined in that low to medium block and take the points home without any fuss.

It's another very important string to our bow.

Offline Garlicbread

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread feat. Gerry and the Bedwetters
« Reply #262 on: January 1, 2017, 07:02:54 pm »

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread feat. Gerry and the Bedwetters
« Reply #263 on: January 1, 2017, 10:36:24 pm »

I've got a smile on my face watching that :)

Offline FlashGordon

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread feat. Gerry and the Bedwetters
« Reply #264 on: January 1, 2017, 11:31:19 pm »
I've got a smile on my face watching that :)

Same, we've got the right man in charge. You know it's not for the cameras, unlike Mourinho who awkwardly went on to the pitch to celebrate the mancs famous win against Palace recently.
So bloody what? If you watch football to be absolutely miserable then go watch cricket.

Offline poopscoop

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Three at the back, what's the crack?
« Reply #265 on: April 11, 2017, 08:25:03 pm »
Klopp has deployed a back three in each of the past couple of games. It seems to be more a case of needs must to get us through a sticky period of injuries and fatigue rather than a genuine belief in its suitability.
When Rogers used a back three he had Emre performing the role of the deepest lying playmaker and he did well for the most part - it was only later in the season where we started to come unstuck - and many were fond of the way we played with that system.
One of the main criticisms of that back three was that we were exposed on the flanks - so nothing new there then. Its a familiar cry today due to the high press we play - but we are far more accomplished pressing team now than we were under BR. So the question is - If Sakho is brought back from his south London exile does a back line of Lovren, Matip and Mama give us a decent platform from which to challenge next year?

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Re: Three at the back, what's the crack?
« Reply #266 on: April 11, 2017, 08:36:56 pm »
It's getting three big players in defence against the hoof teams... 

I suspect it's all about physicality
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Offline killer-heels

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Re: Three at the back, what's the crack?
« Reply #267 on: April 11, 2017, 08:57:01 pm »
Craic?

Offline RK7

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Re: Three at the back, what's the crack?
« Reply #268 on: April 11, 2017, 09:45:57 pm »
Our CB's are not comfortable defending in wide areas so no but in a back four we face the same problems to be honest because the FB's advance so far up the pitch.

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Re: Three at the back, what's the crack?
« Reply #269 on: April 11, 2017, 09:46:36 pm »
Think we have a very good personnel for 343. Milner and Moreno for me are perfect options for wing-back position. Can and Klavan on the sides of Matip, Lucas/Hendo and Gini in front of them and two Brazilians behind Sturridge. Unfortunately Klopp doesn't trust Moreno one bit and when Lallana gets back there's no perfect position for him there. Personally I think it would give us great balance without Mane and put all our best players available on the pitch in what might be their best positions but it's very unlikely Klopp would commit to something like this till the end of the season.

One thing that's a no-no for me is having 3 out-at-out CBs at the back, it's too robust as you need to somebody like Can last year on the outside bringing the ball out and making passes into our midfield.

Offline Johns_Barn

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #270 on: April 11, 2017, 10:57:01 pm »
Something Sakho does really well...

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #271 on: April 11, 2017, 11:10:18 pm »
This is my biggest worry. Defensively we are shambolic and at present i don't see how that changes drastically as some of the biggest issues look likely to remain going into next season.

Mignolet although he has improved still doesn't look good enough or seem to inspire confidence. This new hoof it clear tactic is painful to watch at times. I cant see him not being our keeper next season personally.

Our best CB seems so injury prone as does his first choice partner so should we bring in a new one, it still looks to be constant rotation at CB.

Milners been good but isnt a left back and will be a year older in the new season, i can't see us bringing in 2 new LB's and we dont seem to have any young LB's doing a TAA and knocking on the door for the first team

Right back i think is strong, i rate Clyne more than most seem to and although he could improve going forward at the back i think he's very good

We have so many issues at the back and i wonder what Klopps plan is for the summer. I cant think of many attainable CB's who would improve our defence enough for us to progress massively defensively. I'd love us to look strong at the back but its honestly been so long since we did

Offline rscanderlech

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #272 on: April 12, 2017, 12:10:18 am »
This is my biggest worry. Defensively we are shambolic and at present i don't see how that changes drastically as some of the biggest issues look likely to remain going into next season.

Mignolet although he has improved still doesn't look good enough or seem to inspire confidence. This new hoof it clear tactic is painful to watch at times. I cant see him not being our keeper next season personally.

Our best CB seems so injury prone as does his first choice partner so should we bring in a new one, it still looks to be constant rotation at CB.

Milners been good but isnt a left back and will be a year older in the new season, i can't see us bringing in 2 new LB's and we dont seem to have any young LB's doing a TAA and knocking on the door for the first team

Right back i think is strong, i rate Clyne more than most seem to and although he could improve going forward at the back i think he's very good

We have so many issues at the back and i wonder what Klopps plan is for the summer. I cant think of many attainable CB's who would improve our defence enough for us to progress massively defensively. I'd love us to look strong at the back but its honestly been so long since we did
I think our best shot would be to try to sign one of the best younger centre backs. I am thinking of someone like Jonathan Tah, although he himself may be out of reach. A swap deal involving Sakho might get us a more experienced top class defender, but it would be difficult, given our current status.

But just having some depth would make a big difference for us, since, when Matip and Lovren partner each other, the partnership is generally functional and okay. The issue is that you can't expect them both to always be fit, and the loss of either one reduces us to a pathetic level. So even just having someone better than Lovren and on par with or better than Matip, leaving Lovren as 3rd choice, would be a huge boost not only in terms of raising the level of our first XI but in terms of ensuring that our back two is functional even in the event of injury to one of the first choicers.

As for the rest of the defence, I think it would make a big difference to have a deep lying midfielder who is better tactically and generally a better defender than Henderson is. Henderson could then play a different role, or it could be a case of rotating them or playing one as box-to-box and the other a little deeper or whatever. Having proper cover for the defence would probably make the entire defence look like it's a level better, when the reality is that they have more time to organise thanks to the midfielders ahead of them.

So even if we don't change the goalkeeper, I think we could theoretically do a lot to move from being a team that concedes 45-50 a season in the league alone, to maybe one that concedes a more palatable 38-40ish.

The question is, will we do the necessary transfer business to make it possible? At the moment, our defensive personnel are, collectively, mid-table.

Offline jepovic

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #273 on: April 12, 2017, 03:37:15 am »
I think our back four has been lacking a leader ever since carra left. Matip is fine, although I think he's a bit overrated here. Lovren is also fine. Klavan was a good signing under the circumstances, but we clearly need someone better as third CB.
I'm sure Sakho will leave, because it's something disciplinary and Klopp has low tolerance for that stuff. Hopefully we can find a top CB.
Moreno is surely leaving as well, so we should get a natural LB to compete with Milner.
I think Henderson and Can can both become great DMs with a bit more experience.

Offline Anfield89

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #274 on: April 12, 2017, 06:28:30 am »
Needs addressing, 1st priority in the summer and build from there.

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #275 on: April 12, 2017, 07:12:56 am »
We just over think everything and panic somehow. 

Headers and clearances just end up being pinballed off everyone like that stupid tennis heading game they used to do in training.  Just clear the fucking thing.

We look like an u9s side too, everyone in a big clump round the ball kicking at fresh air, till the opposition score.

We need to be more decisive but instinctive and calmer.

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Offline harryc

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #276 on: April 12, 2017, 09:13:09 am »
The title of this thread  ;D

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #277 on: April 12, 2017, 10:41:43 am »
Think we just need to buy a good centre back and a left back, both of whom are not injury prone. I'm at the point I'd rather have a consistently playing, good centre back than a great injury prone one. The best way for us to improve our defence next season would be to have a settled back four playing week in week out and who get to know and understand each other and how to perform as a unit. Its one of the key things we have not had for 7 or 8 years now- lots of decent injury prone options but nothing settled.

I've no idea who that would be- if its top end talent like Van Dijk or Gimenez, or a lesser name like Keane or Tah. Its vital for how we improve as a team (both in the league and also if we play at the later stages of European football) to get it right in the centre back signing this summer.

Left back is a bit different as we have a functioning player who has played an impressive number of games, but is aging and I doubt could do a 45+ match season next year. I don't know if we would go for a young understudy (either very young like Sessegnon or Hernandez) or a more shrewd (cheaper) older signing like a Kolasinac. It will be interesting to see the team dynamic of how Klopp approaches this position as I don't think he will want to make wholesale changes to the starting 11, i.e. if we sign 5/6 I don't think all would start the first match next year- maybe only 2/3 and bring the others in slowly.

Offline Anfield89

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #278 on: April 12, 2017, 11:11:35 am »
You need someone to come in and have the bollocks to be the number 1 centre back to lead and organise the back line.

Offline Chalky Boots

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #279 on: April 12, 2017, 11:40:49 am »
The left side of defence has got to be the priorities for improving. Clyne and Matip are both reliable and of a top level on right so that's fine, but Lovren and Milner both need improving on for different reasons. I think Dejan has proven to be a good solid defender now but his fitness record over his career is patchy and he isn't of the class of an Agger where you can still justify him as the number 1 because he's a special talent (the same argument would've gone for Sakho). Milner is 31, isn't a natural left back and isn't comfortable enough on the left peg to make a success of it like we've seen from the likes of greats like Maldini, Lahm or more ordinary players like Johnson or Adriano.

We might well sign that kid from Fulham but that'd still fall into the Trent category of being potentially the no1 in his position, but not quite ready just yet. 

I think the remit should be for a centre halve and left back who are both fast, powerful (ideally tall as well) and comfortable on the ball with a solid appearance record over their careers.

If we can get them - and there's two in particular that I'd like - then I think we can seriously improve on the defence.