Topic: The unravelling. A team, manager and fans shafted by transfer incompetence

[jepovic]

Did he?

Well, if Rodgers doesn't manage his scouts or his signings, he's not really managing much at all. Also, he shouldn't get much credit for the massive improvements we have seen since he arrived. That would leave him with the tactics and press conferences basically, and I think he has much higher ambitions than that.

The signings have not been that bad. The full backs have exceeded my expectations. The problem is that the most important one, Suarez replacement, has been the most disappointing one. It's baffling how the club seemed so unprepared for Suarez leaving.

[Timbo's Goals]

People talk about perspective.

We had a fantastic season last year. One which gave many a great joy. But then what?

Since Shankly started us on our current path the club has had many great seasons. Players have come and gone. Generally we only needed to add or change very little year on year. A bit like Ferguson (spit)  did down the road once they started to win.

In all that time since Shankly, how often did we need to rebuild the side and bring in so many players in one transfer window and what were the results? Generally regression.

Last season we managed to get on a roll using 15-16 players because we were only in one competition. SAS pulled us through. But this season there was to be no SAS. So a complete overhaul was necessary because we had now moved up in class to the Champions League holy grail. A place we want to compete every season. This put us in four competitions.

To stick with what we had last season minus Suarez and put all our eggs in one or two monster signings would have been a mistake because it doesn't solve the squad issue. Yet some bang on about it. Get mad at the owners and transfer committee because we didn't spend big or over spend to get one or two players. Doing so would have papered over the cracks and not addressed the problem of all the increased matches which would tax a small squad.

And let's be fair, after last season the transfer threads were rife with we needed many players not one or two. New strikers, new midfielders, new defenders, and a new back up keeper at least. Not one or two would transform our side.

So the correct decision was made, at least imho. Rebuild. Bring in numbers. Bring in some experience within the League, quality from outside, and remaining to our new LFC core values of young players with desire.

It's disappointing every new player hasn't hit the ground running and were not topping the League. However, even last season Rodgers kept reminding us we're ahead of schedule. We're building here. We're not the finished article like the teams we're chasing who have already built their squads after years of tossing money at it and they only need an influx of one or two players to remain in the challenge for the League. That is what we aspire to.

Once we finish in the top four, retain being in the Champions League, we will already have the squad capable of being top four, then is the time to go hunting the top tier players or over pay to get them if that is what we want. To do that this past summer without the ready made squad could have seen us regress to 6-7-8th again and Rodgers would have been derelict in his duties.

Remember where we've come from the last few years and the path we're on. That little bit of perspective when one micro analyzes the owners, managers, and club.

You know what Mel - I'd love nothing more than to say 'what a great post'. Really, I would.

Yet the reality is once again what you've written has bypassed the crux of the argument and you've simply composed a response to some mythical non-existent criticism of the transfer policy that suits the comments you wanted to make.

Now where have I seen you employ those tactics before? Hmm? Can't think.

 


That's not to say that what you've said is not fair comment in itself in terms of player's abilities, bedding in etc because much of it is fair comment.

It's just that it's got fuck all to do with the argument that's being levelled at the club management in this particular instance. 

The criticism is all about the failure to bring in the type of replacement strikers that were needed to replicate as near as possible the pace, energy and mobility with which we've been playing for the past season and a half.

If you feel Lambert and Balotelli as forward outlets represent that sort of pace, energy and mobility then please do attempt to convince me. But please don't use the fact that we're attempting to 'bed in' seven new signings as the reason our game currently lacks those all so vital attributes.

 

[Mutton Geoff]

I'm genuinely baffled by how people can talk about a failed transfer policy in October.

As others have said, Lallana, Can, Moreno and Manquillo look like good signings already. With Lallana and Moreno in particular looking immediately like Liverpool players. Markovic has undoubtedly struggled, but it's no shame 2/3 months into your first season as a 20 year old.

We've struggled up front but we've also been without our main striker for most of the season so far, and lost our irreplaceable talisman last year. Lambert was clearly a bit of an outside shot, I'd guess in the hope of being a Sheringham or McAllister figure, the loss of Sturridge has put a lot of pressure on him to be a main man which was NEVER going to happen.

Ballotelli is another story altogether but should be judge a) after a full season, and b) when we are playing with 2 up top which was clearly the intention with him.

As for Lovren, he is the main issue for me right now and I don't just mean his defending. His use of the ball is quite poor and it's causing us a lot of turnover of possession. Hopefully this will improve as he becomes more used to Brendan's tactics and way of using the ball.

The above applies to all of the new players. If you can't see that the introduction of 8/9 new players (those of which have made up 5/6 places in the starting line up at times so far this season) then what is the point of debate.

No club will ever integrate this many players into the squad at one time with ease, especially not one with a style of football like we have.

Not to mention, again, that Suarez leaves void which we can't fill and unfortunately our captain fantastic is on the wane. Last year was a glorious anomaly powered by Suarez, freshness, prep time and an ever increasing belief and tidal wave of support. We're now back to the reality of building a squad which is capable of competing for the title and european football week in and week out. There were always going to be bumps and a dip from last year was inevitable if only based on the fact that Chelsea would be stronger this year.

Personally I'll be judging last summers transfer window at the end of the season (beyond that for signings like Manquillo, Markovic and Moreno). Give the new players a chance to adapt, give the old players a chance to adapt to the new players. Most of all give the manager some faith that he can get things right.

This is why I get wound up by the criticism because in my opinion it's far too early to judge us and the manager.

We're still in touch with the top 4, we're still (by the skin of our teeth) in every competition we can be in, the next two months will be a battle and hopefully after Christmas we'll start to fly again.

I agree and my Random thinking is this:

we signed eight or nine i lost count,  one is doing well on loan so that leaves seven or eight does anyone really think they should all  hit the ground running in all my years some are instant success but most need time and it seems to me some in here don't allow any time at all, we get Lovren and Mario are not kids so the weird logic is they should just walk into the team like they have been here for years, this seldom happens.

So 8 signing left i would say you are doing well if 3 are instantly effective for us and right now i reckon the two spanish lads, Can and Lallana have given us some good performances so i make that four at least who have had some improvement already, Lovren had a difficult start but is settling down now,

Markovic is already getting abuse despite hardly being in the team and needs to adjust to a new Country and Culture and an early injury which held him back, he will be one to watch in a month or so or even next season but he is quality.

Now here my take on Mario and Lambert we bought Lambert before the Suarez snack incident so he was never a replacement for Suarez simply then a plan B or C, but Timbo this is where i take issue with you, you say these two are unsuited to our style of last season but for me last season was set up to get the best out of Suarez alone , not Daniel because he is so adaptable he functions in any formation i reckon, so perhaps Rodgers is looking now after missing out on a sort of like for like with Sanchez and a poor version in Remy for a style that suits Mario and again Daniel will fit into it as well.

Could say a more measured attack and less very effective harem scarem, of course right now it isn't working but we are less than a dozen games in.

I would also add to this Sterling and Henderson are showing signs of being physically and mentally drained and Coutinho also struggled to hit some form, so in a scenario when some new signings are struggling to find their feet and the regulars are off the pace as well, is it any wonder the results and performances have not been great, but there are some green shoots showing if people want to see them !

Give them till xmas and then review and revisit this thread and i bet a lot of things might have changed for the better.

[redmark]

Good post that Redmark.

And I think you have probably encapsulated what happened pretty accurately.

I think where the likes of myself and the other twelve angry men  are coming from is that in itself the fact it likely happened the way you have relayed is no excuse for LIVERPOOL FOOTBALL CLUB as an entity - whoever it was either individually or collectively pulling the strings -allowing it to happen when such huge funds were at the club's disposal.

In other words - in this particular instance - there can be no excuses.

What we do have to do of course is move on. We have Saint Danny - the patron saint of arl arses demented by what's gone on  - coming back soon. Plus january is not that far away. things couldn't be better. Whoopee.

 

There may be no excuses, but there can be reasons - and one of those reasons indeed may be that we simply made a mistake (or more than one); collectively or individually. Maybe we didn't push hard enough for one of the other targets, didn't do enough to convince Sanchez, were too cautious on Remy, or too optimistic on Balotelli.

At the moment, I tend to reserve my frustration and irritation for watching the games . Then I float back into a mood of oblivious optimism, where it will all come good any time soon. We need to click all over the pitch (and on the touchline) - players who've been here for years, as much as those we've just signed. If we start to do so, we're still in touch and have an opportunity to correct some mistakes in January.

[Carlito Roberto]

It's a brilliant post and something a lot of people have had genuine concerns about for a while. One of the best things Brendan Rodgers has done since he's been here is have the bravery to move out the clubs record signing on loan, due to wanting to change the style of play.

The new style was built around fluidity and crucial to it's success were mobile, quick strikers who would work the channels, run in behind and have the ability to beat players one vs one. A comparatively static target man in the ilk of Andy Carroll wasn't conducive to the success of such a system and quite rightly he was moved on. The resulting style change was a joy to behold and once in full swing we were hands down the best team in the league to watch.

With all that in mind the decision to rip up such a successful blueprint and bring in not one, but two, static targetmen once again is utterly baffling.

[24/7]

What's wrong with you?

Easier to lash out in search of notoriety through one-liners than to put any thought into whatever you want to say. Ironically he posts in a thread bitching about lack of freedom in other threads that he himself has clearly contributed to being shockingly moderated. Shocking, eh?

[BEAST]

The OP will have many onside with his concerns, especially as it so well constructed. it is ofc to stop the board from being clogged to the brim with endless childish banter and the mods do have a thankless task of curbing that, I really do tip my hat to them.

Main issues here is our transfer policy and I to also have to ask, what the fuckity fudge were they thinking this summer? We know of targets that didn't want to be part of the team, some didn't pass a medical and theres nothing we could have done about that. What we have ended up with is a team almost completely bereft of the energy that was in abundance last year. the screams of 'they need time to bed in' actually rile me more than I can convey. take a quick look at Southampton in the summer and compare them to right now and I think you get the gist of where us 'moaners' are coming from. players cost a fortune and this is a results business isn't it? why do LFC players need time to bed in, they are either worth the large amount of coin, badly mismanaged or just a complete pile of steaming wasted space.

so in summary for me, appalled by our transfer market this year, flat out angry really and appreciate that I can come in here from time to time and vent that without being called disloyal or some other fluff. bad mistakes made this year and the results prove it, will still be a red until the day I die though and have to suck it up and support what we do have.

I'm someone who has been lurking for 6 months +

We get it.  You're pissed.   You've said basically the same thing 50 times in countless threads and typed 1000's of words about it (at least the grammar is good).  Nobody has censored you.


We get it you think the club fucked up in the transfer market.  We're 9 games into the season and so far you're right.  6 months from now when the season ends you'll probably still be right.  You're bitching about Rodgers tactics and so far you're probably right, they haven't been good.

You've made the same point a hundred times and the facts of the situation haven't changed. 

Here is my question:

What is going to make YOU happy? 

- Rodgers comes  out and admits he fucked up?
- someone from the mythical transfer committee gets fired as a sacrificial lamb (9 games into the season)
- Rodgers admits his tactics are wrong?
- Rodgers throws players under the bus?
- FSG comes out and says if results don't improve people get fired?
- Rodgers gets fired?
- Rafa gets rehired?
- Kenny comes back as interim manager?

Seriously what is going to make you happy?  Because you keep saying the same shit over and over again and it's going to be a long 6 months for you if you have to keep saying the same shit over and over again b/c other than January the squad is what it is.  You're going to just have to get used to it. 

The roster as is might come 3rd/4th or might come 7th.  That's the blunt reality of the situation.

Do you want a cookie for being right that the transfer business was poor?   

[ANFIELDGATES]

We signed 8 players. Half of them can be classed as 'for the future' (but capable of contributing now), half are established players.

The youngsters, with the exception of Markovic, have settled in pretty well. No one it seems would pick our strongest XI without Moreno in it, and most include Manquillo.

The 'doubts', such as they are, are over Balotelli, Lovren and Lambert.

agree to a point,its exactly those 3 that havent really hit the ground running.we had a system of play that suited our forward 4/5 who broke with pace and endeavour but when u replace luis and sturridge(with his injuries its a given hes going to miss games  ) with balo and lambert then the style has to change and i not sure its really our way,we enthralled most neutrals with our attackin style last season and its hard to watch atm when we are movin the ball with a lot less pace.maybe it will all click into place but we are def not going to be as quick on the counter without pacey forwards to open up defences and drag them out of position.

[ANFIELDGATES]

I'm someone who has been lurking for 6 months +

We get it.  You're pissed.   You've said basically the same thing 50 times in countless threads and typed 1000's of words about it (at least the grammar is good).  Nobody has censored you.


We get it you think the club fucked up in the transfer market.  We're 9 games into the season and so far you're right.  6 months from now when the season ends you'll probably still be right.  You're bitching about Rodgers tactics and so far you're probably right, they haven't been good.

You've made the same point a hundred times and the facts of the situation haven't changed. 

Here is my question:

What is going to make YOU happy? 

- Rodgers comes  out and admits he fucked up?
- someone from the mythical transfer committee gets fired as a sacrificial lamb (9 games into the season)
- Rodgers admits his tactics are wrong?
- Rodgers throws players under the bus?
- FSG comes out and says if results don't improve people get fired?
- Rodgers gets fired?
- Rafa gets rehired?
- Kenny comes back as interim manager?

Seriously what is going to make you happy?  Because you keep saying the same shit over and over again and it's going to be a long 6 months for you if you have to keep saying the same shit over and over again b/c other than January the squad is what it is.  You're going to just have to get used to it. 

The roster as is might come 3rd/4th or might come 7th.  That's the blunt reality of the situation.

Do you want a cookie for being right that the transfer business was poor?

thats a bit unfair to the poster tbf,if hes constantly pissed off then what would make him happy is if we start to play some decent football again!!we can all agree we arent where we want to be but the reasons for it are many and some are so obvious to be criminal.the reality is that we had such an amazing season last year that we were hoping to at least emulate that but havent so far and yes we are only 9 games in so yeah some perspective is required .still fucking frustraating though!!

[4pool]

You know what Mel - I'd love nothing more than to say 'what a great post'. Really, I would.

Yet the reality is once again what you've written has bypassed the crux of the argument and you've simply composed a response to some mythical non-existent criticism of the transfer policy that suits the comments you wanted to make.

Now where have I seen you employ those tactics before? Hmm? Can't think.

 


That's not to say that what you've said is not fair comment in itself in terms of player's abilities, bedding in etc because much of it is fair comment.

It's just that it's got fuck all to do with the argument that's being levelled at the club management in this particular instance. 

The criticism is all about the failure to bring in the type of replacement strikers that were needed to replicate as near as possible the pace, energy and mobility with which we've been playing for the past season and a half.

If you feel Lambert and Balotelli as forward outlets represent that sort of pace, energy and mobility then please do attempt to convince me. But please don't use the fact that we're attempting to 'bed in' seven new signings as the reason our game currently lacks those all so vital attributes.

 

You still haven't answered me..you around for Arsenal away or Newcastle home in April? 



Now look here..

I don't need to answer the pacey striker bit that seems to be your bone of contention because I already have mentioning Rodgers decided to go a different way and feature Daniel.

But that aside, what "pacey" striker was out there who:

1: Had the balls to replace a 30 goal scorer?
2: Wanted to be the direct replacement for a Liverpool legend/hero?

I think Rodgers understood this. Found there really weren't any near like for like. Or any real pacey 20 goal scorers out there, never mind 30. That no matter what striker we went after the style was going to change. So he adjusted how we would play by featuring Daniel.

I'd wager that if Balotelli and Sanchez ( as an example) got in a sprinting race of 40 meters, Balotelli would win. I think people under estimate his pace. Mainly because he doesn't use it very often. Especially when he's used as a target man with his back to goal.

I'd also like to point out that we still have SaS... Sturridge and Sterling should we want to counter attack with pace. Well we will have that some day soon hopefully.. Balotelli, Lallana, Coutinho, and Markovic all have pace as well. Then there's Moreno and Manckiller with pace.

What has slowed us down is Sturridge being out and moving Balotelli to a lone striker. But we're not ALWAYS going to play this way. We've been somewhat forced into it.

But you''ll probably come back with , this is why we needed a pacey striker. And i'll come back with, how would a pacey striker help if he is to play as a lone striker with his back to goal for most of the match? His pace is negated. Teams understand, don't let Liverpool counter attack so they back off. Which leads us back to why we try to use more strength in Balotelli, if we can get him the ball.

How we doing now..
 

[kcbworth]

I'm someone who has been lurking for 6 months +

We get it.  You're pissed.   You've said basically the same thing 50 times in countless threads and typed 1000's of words about it (at least the grammar is good).  Nobody has censored you.


We get it you think the club fucked up in the transfer market.  We're 9 games into the season and so far you're right.  6 months from now when the season ends you'll probably still be right.  You're bitching about Rodgers tactics and so far you're probably right, they haven't been good.

You've made the same point a hundred times and the facts of the situation haven't changed. 

Here is my question:

What is going to make YOU happy? 

- Rodgers comes  out and admits he fucked up?
- someone from the mythical transfer committee gets fired as a sacrificial lamb (9 games into the season)
- Rodgers admits his tactics are wrong?
- Rodgers throws players under the bus?
- FSG comes out and says if results don't improve people get fired?
- Rodgers gets fired?
- Rafa gets rehired?
- Kenny comes back as interim manager?

Seriously what is going to make you happy?  Because you keep saying the same shit over and over again and it's going to be a long 6 months for you if you have to keep saying the same shit over and over again b/c other than January the squad is what it is.  You're going to just have to get used to it. 

The roster as is might come 3rd/4th or might come 7th.  That's the blunt reality of the situation.

Do you want a cookie for being right that the transfer business was poor?   

I think a lot of posters just want others to stop telling them they're wrong for being concerned, and maybe even agree with them, which imho, is fine.

People calling for the manager's head etc are def way off the mark for now.

Doesn't mean there's no justified cause for concern, mind you

[harryc]

I'm someone who has been lurking for 6 months +

We get it.  You're pissed.   You've said basically the same thing 50 times in countless threads and typed 1000's of words about it (at least the grammar is good).  Nobody has censored you.


We get it you think the club fucked up in the transfer market.  We're 9 games into the season and so far you're right.  6 months from now when the season ends you'll probably still be right.  You're bitching about Rodgers tactics and so far you're probably right, they haven't been good.

You've made the same point a hundred times and the facts of the situation haven't changed. 

Here is my question:

What is going to make YOU happy? 

- Rodgers comes  out and admits he fucked up?
- someone from the mythical transfer committee gets fired as a sacrificial lamb (9 games into the season)
- Rodgers admits his tactics are wrong?
- Rodgers throws players under the bus?
- FSG comes out and says if results don't improve people get fired?
- Rodgers gets fired?
- Rafa gets rehired?
- Kenny comes back as interim manager?

Seriously what is going to make you happy?  Because you keep saying the same shit over and over again and it's going to be a long 6 months for you if you have to keep saying the same shit over and over again b/c other than January the squad is what it is.  You're going to just have to get used to it. 

The roster as is might come 3rd/4th or might come 7th.  That's the blunt reality of the situation.

Do you want a cookie for being right that the transfer business was poor?

Nice to know someone is happy with the situation we have got ourselves into with our attacking options.

But that doesn't mean other people are and that is the crux of the OP his right to say it.

[ANFIELDGATES]

You still haven't answered me..you around for Arsenal away or Newcastle home in April? 



Now look here..

I don't need to answer the pacey striker bit that seems to be your bone of contention because I already have mentioning Rodgers decided to go a different way and feature Daniel.

But that aside, what "pacey" striker was out there who:

1: Had the balls to replace a 30 goal scorer?
2: Wanted to be the direct replacement for a Liverpool legend/hero?

I think Rodgers understood this. Found there really weren't any near like for like. Or any real pacey 20 goal scorers out there, never mind 30. That no matter what striker we went after the style was going to change. So he adjusted how we would play by featuring Daniel.

I'd wager that if Balotelli and Sanchez ( as an example) got in a sprinting race of 40 meters, Balotelli would win. I think people under estimate his pace. Mainly because he doesn't use it very often. Especially when he's used as a target man with his back to goal.

I'd also like to point out that we still have SaS... Sturridge and Sterling should we want to counter attack with pace. Well we will have that some day soon hopefully.. Balotelli, Lallana, Coutinho, and Markovic all have pace as well. Then there's Moreno and Manckiller with pace.

What has slowed us down is Sturridge being out and moving Balotelli to a lone striker. But we're not ALWAYS going to play this way. We've been somewhat forced into it.

But you''ll probably come back with , this is why we needed a pacey striker. And i'll come back with, how would a pacey striker help if he is to play as a lone striker with his back to goal for most of the match? His pace is negated. Teams understand, don't let Liverpool counter attack so they back off. Which leads us back to why we try to use more strength in Balotelli, if we can get him the ball.

How we doing now..
 

assuming your correct then the blame surely lies with brendan cos if we are changing to a new system to suit an injury prone striker then we really are in deep shit.your assertion that "who has the balls to replace a 30 goal man" etc etc is total bollocks,if thats the case no club would ever replace their super stars as the new guy would shit himself!!!u think luis thought about torres when he signed?most top sstrikers are narcistic by nature,thats what makes them stand out from the rest.as for us adapting our style to play a lone striker then again u would have to blame brendan again as its so far removed from what made us great last season.

[The 5th Benitle]

Nice to know someone is happy with the situation we have got ourselves into with our attacking options.

But that doesn't mean other people are and that is the crux of the OP his right to say it.

Do you know what, that is a piss poor response to a well thought out post. Exactly what we're trying to discourage, in fact.

[Timbo's Goals]

I'm someone who has been lurking for 6 months +

Jeez- that's heavy shit man. Six months huh

 

What is going to make YOU happy?

  Rodgers throws players under the bus?

 

Do you want a cookie for being right that the transfer business was poor?   

What's a cookie?

 

[Ken-Obi]

What's a cookie?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvaE_HCMimQ

[Timbo's Goals]

You still haven't answered me..you around for Arsenal away or Newcastle home in April? 

Still go to all the homes but don't do the aways any more mate in case I get mauled by THE BEAST

 

[L666KOP]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvaE_HCMimQ

Don't you come in here, you've already caused one thread to be locked.

 

[CHOPPER]

RAWK is a moderated forum which aims to maintain a level of civility amongst the users. The fundamental basis of that civility means we attempt to avoid a toxic atmosphere online where "anything goes".

Considered criticism is not taboo on RAWK, but abusive and/or knee jerk posts are not tolerated, because by their very nature they undermine a civil atmosphere.

Quilt

[Halcyon Lissome]

The criticism is all about the failure to bring in the type of replacement strikers that were needed to replicate as near as possible the pace, energy and mobility with which we've been playing for the past season and a half.

If you feel Lambert and Balotelli as forward outlets represent that sort of pace, energy and mobility then please do attempt to convince me. But please don't use the fact that we're attempting to 'bed in' seven new signings as the reason our game currently lacks those all so vital attributes.

 

Who did you have in mind? The kind of forwards we need to replace Suarez (or injured Sturridge) aren't many. There are a number of potentially good ones but what guarantee was there for them to succeed. Bar the top 10 strikers in the world, the others aren't really a guarantee for success.

Lambert scored 13 and assisted 10 last year; for a 3rd forward in our side that's quite good really. Balotelli was a gamble but if it pays off it's huge. It's not like he isn't talented. He could turn it around tomorrow and it'd look like an amazing buy.

[The 5th Benitle]

Quilt

Down with this sort of thing, you don't get blanket permission to abuse

[Timbo's Goals]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvaE_HCMimQ

Ha ha- you saw it.

Did I get the thing closed down?

 

[Crosby Nick]

We should be grateful this is a recent phenomenon on here. At the likes of Newcastle, Arsenal and Spurs it's been the fans' policy taboo for quite some time now.

[The 5th Benitle]

Ha ha- you saw it.

Did I get the thing closed down?

 

Nah. I left it unlocked for a while with the expectation that it might prove eloquently why player threads are so shit. It did.

[Veinticinco de Mayo]

RAWK is a moderated forum which aims to maintain a level of civility amongst the users. The fundamental basis of that civility means we attempt to avoid a toxic atmosphere online where "anything goes".

Considered criticism is not taboo on RAWK, but abusive and/or knee jerk posts are not tolerated, because by their very nature they undermine a civil atmosphere.

Bravo!  Now why don't the rest of you just simply listen to the Glorious Leader and shut up. 

[has gone odd]

I'm someone who has been lurking for 6 months +

<snip>

Do you want a cookie for being right that the transfer business was poor?

erm what? i think you have targeted the wrong person for your patronising flames. ive barely posted at all in the general forum and only once or twice in post match threads and others in a round table or 2, oh and another talking about our attack.

ive a right to an opinion and you've a right to yours. what im seeing that our signings have not been any better than what we had last season when it was obvious where we needed to cover. you have spewed up onto this boards after your lurking spree and offered nothing to the debate other than to troll me as a poster, when in fact hundreds more have offered little or nothing extra to the debate. not saying i have either but why fling your crap in my direction.

[CraigDS]

Bravo!  Now why don't the rest of you just simply listen to the Glorious Leader and shut up. 

[The 5th Benitle]

Timbo's, I just deleted a post of yours by mistake.


No, I'm not taking the piss. BEAST's post was quite good I thought, I didn't agree with all of it but as a riposte to those who drone on in EVERY topic about transfer policy, repeating themselves over and over again and making it virtually unreadable, it was pretty merited.

[Veinticinco de Mayo]

Seriously guys the moderation thing is a result of our considerable girth, as the site has grown bigger and bigger it has become more and more difficult to moderate, particularly at busy times such as in the anguished venting aftermath of a defeat.  This has gradually led to a stricter, more black and white, approach to moderation, particularly at those busy periods.

It means that sometimes we get it wrong and use a sledgehammer to crack a nut, it means sometimes we miss the subtlety of your sarcasm, it means that sometimes we don't have time to give you the explanation you probably deserve.  It's not ideal but we have seen the alternative and it was unreadable.

[Timbo's Goals]

Timbo's, I just deleted a post of yours by mistake.


No, I'm not taking the piss. BEAST's post was quite good I thought, I didn't agree with all of it but as a riposte to those who drone on in EVERY topic about transfer policy, repeating themselves over and over again and making it virtually unreadable, it was pretty merited.

But he's inciting people to push balotelli under a bus

That's....conspiracy to...murder isn't it?

surely that's worse than telling someone to fuck off?

 

 

[The 5th Benitle]

This is well over a year old now - but still very relevant for those who think that we 'clamp down on all negativity' (Sorry Timbo I know that's not what this thread is about, but people have pushed it that way) http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=302219.0

[CHOPPER]

HMVdM has spoken. Now run along you small boys and don't be late for class.

[Ken-Obi]

Ha ha- you saw it.

Did I get the thing closed down?

 

You know I then watched this and suddenly it felt like everybody on here is either him or her while the mods the kungfu fella who opened the door

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhzNhLgPX9o

[The 5th Benitle]

But he's inciting people to push balotelli under a bus

That's....conspiracy to...murder isn't it?

surely that's worse than telling someone to fuck off?

 

 

I must have missed that bit

[Timbo's Goals]

erm what? i think you have targeted the wrong person for your patronising flames. ive barely posted at all in the general forum and only once or twice in post match threads and others in a round table or 2, oh and another talking about our attack.

ive a right to an opinion and you've a right to yours. what im seeing that our signings have not been any better than what we had last season when it was obvious where we needed to cover. you have spewed up onto this boards after your lurking spree and offered nothing to the debate other than to troll me as a poster, when in fact hundreds more have offered little or nothing extra to the debate. not saying i have either but why fling your crap in my direction.

Er ...I think he meant me.

I've just gone ex-directory in case he asks Direct Enquiries for Timbos Goals in West Derby, Liverpool

 

[Timbo's Goals]

I must have missed that bit

 

[Timbo's Goals]

HMVdM has spoken. Now run along you small boys and don't be late for class.

Ha ha

You are a fuckin card Chops

 

[Nessy76]

don't be so pedantic, Rodgers was quoted at the start of August as saying “I can categorically tell you Mario Balotelli will not be at Liverpool,” fast forward to the 21st of August and we agree a fee for him. I admit its longer than a week but more a turn of phrase and still not getting away from the complete 180 turnaround in such a short space of time.

It's not pedantic though, it completely changes the context of what was said.

When Rodgers said we weren't signing Balotelli, we weren't signing Balotelli. You deliberately make it sound as though he was either talking through his arse or changed his mind in a very short space of time - which clearly isn't true - just because it supports your argument. Which makes you a liar. Simple as that.

The question is why you feel the need to lie to your own fellow supporters to prove your point, instead of asking yourself if your point might actually not be as strong as you seem to feel it is.

[MNAA]

Nice OP Timbo. And we're up to 7 pages and looking good (unless someone starts to derail it)

A couple of seasons ago people were envious of Newcastle and their signings - Cabaye, Cisse, Ben Arfa, etc. This season it's West Ham (Sakho, Valencia, Song) and Southampton (Tadic, Pelle, Alderweired, Mane). We wondered how (1) did they find and sign these players and (2) get them players to hit the ground running almost immediately, took their respective teams to the top and make their managers look like absolute genius.
While on the other hand, our signings mostly and generally are the polar opposites (even though most of us were excited by their signings in the summer)

First things first - similar to Newcastle (Ben Arfa, Cisse), Southampton (Tadic, Pelle, etc) and West Ham (Valencia, Sakho, etc) - though they're looking golden at the moment, their good times may not last and things may all go tits up by the turn of the year (or they may just keep going and gave Chelsea a run for their Russian ruble!) The fact is ... it's still too early to tell.

Our summer signings (Lallana aside perhaps) have not hit the ground running like we would like them to and that's disappointing. We want all of them to be like Suarez, Coutinho, Sturridge. And not be like Stewart, Clough (he looked good early though), Carroll and Keane who never took off. But I am sure we all will be elated (and more than willing to swallow the bile that we had spit) if they start to improve and play to their full potential eventually. How long are we willing to wait though? The knives are already out now!

Personally I am disappointed with the way that we go about with our recruitment (scouting, signing, the lot). We want to be economical, we want "moneyball" type of signings - but we went out and buy the right players at the wrong time. You buy Markovic when he is at Partizan, not from Benfica. You buy Lovren from Dinamo, not after Lyon/Southampton. You buy Lallana when he's still under the radar, not when he's just had the season of his life.

I like the signings of Lambert (always caught my attention at Southampton) and Balotelli. I think they will get better. However, I do agree with Timbo that after missing on Sanchez and Remy (to replace Luis), we should have worked tirelessly to ensure that we bring in someone of similar mould - we should have been all over Sakho or Valencia as they seemed to be the kind of signings that we need (we should not be thinking of buying them now though). Not so much to replace Suarez but more so to supplement the way we play.

I want us to be like Porto, like Udinese, like  Madrid, etc. Scouting and signing at the right time. However, with fans like ours, how patient can we be if we buy young and buy cheap. We bought Paletta and in no time, we're already calling him a flop. We would probably have done the same if we had sign Falcao from River instead of Porto (Falcao needed time at Porto to be the Falcao of ).

The point is, there's no sure thing with transfers unless you're Bob Paisley (and still McGarvey and Hodgson were under his watch). Bottom line is we need to get better and be better with our scouting and transfers. We can't afford to screw up with our limited resources.

[Trendisnotdestiny]

You know what Mel - I'd love nothing more than to say 'what a great post'. Really, I would.

Yet the reality is once again what you've written has bypassed the crux of the argument and you've simply composed a response to some mythical non-existent criticism of the transfer policy that suits the comments you wanted to make.

Now where have I seen you employ those tactics before? Hmm? Can't think.

 


That's not to say that what you've said is not fair comment in itself in terms of player's abilities, bedding in etc because much of it is fair comment.

It's just that it's got fuck all to do with the argument that's being levelled at the club management in this particular instance. 

The criticism is all about the failure to bring in the type of replacement strikers that were needed to replicate as near as possible the pace, energy and mobility with which we've been playing for the past season and a half.

If you feel Lambert and Balotelli as forward outlets represent that sort of pace, energy and mobility then please do attempt to convince me. But please don't use the fact that we're attempting to 'bed in' seven new signings as the reason our game currently lacks those all so vital attributes.

 

I think one of the more disturbing elements is the opportunity cost spending of the moneyball approach.  While at the time, each of these signings seemed to fit a purpose and playing monday morning gaffer after the fact is not really very helpful, but for the passionate supporter it only takes a few of our initial games to see how well the following players are doing:

Relatively Inexpensive Performers
1) E. Valencia or even (Sakho)
2) G. Pelle
3) D. Tadic
4) S. Berahino
5) G. Sigurdsson
6) A. Song

Heck, we might see a few players we like against Newcastle on the weekend?  I did not put in the high priced transfers lighting up the prem as many would not fit into our long term budgetary plans or were not interesting in playing at LFC (i.e. Costa, Fabregas, Di Maria, Sanchez).  Not to mention the ones that got away for other reasons (Shaqiri, and Remy).

If I am reading Timbo and others correctly, it appears that the club went to the middle of "moneyball" road instead of fast lane or value lane with many of their purchases.   But, I am not convinced of this as yet.  I am slow to draw these conclusions for several reasons. 

First, our struggles may or may not be due to transfer policy.  I might spread this blame pus around to the coaches as well (btw, I love what BR and the staff; what they have done here).  Nevertheless, we have conceded far too many goals on restarts.  The responsibility given to Lovren was not earned on the playing pitch (although, I like him as a player).  The result has been he tries to do everyone's job and his own, and when combined with Skrtel this leads to airplane hangers of space in between this partnership.  The number of goals conceded on set plays is fundamental embarrassment and is the single biggest reason why we do not have 18 to 20 points at this time, which would put us at the top 3 in the table.

Second, we have been soft at the beginning and the end of games/halves.   The first and last minutes of play are really important.  We have unnecessarily put ourselves in situations where we have to get a late goal (successfully - Soton, QPR or Ludogorets) (Unsuccessfully - Basel, West Ham, Hull and Villa).  There is good reason to be concerned over this as it signifies regression.  The spine of the team has been soft.  There is no way around this.  Effort is good.  Tactics for the most part have been reasonable.  But, we are missing some soccer intelligence at crucial times in the game (at both ends of the pitch).   

In summary, the criticisms (imo) that need to be leveled at the club involve solving problems of the game (not so much LFC squad additions or subtractions of personnel):

1) How are they going to solve our re-start issue ------> NOT GOOD ENOUGH
2) How are they adapting to the schedule, recovery and a lack of time on the practice pitch -------> THEY NEED A PLAN
3) When Daniel is not playing, what is our best attacking lineup and second best -------> LET'S IMPROVE THESE FIRST (PATTERN PLAY)
4) Bad Habits ------------->  BALL-WATCHING, WASTING CORNERS (Philippe needs repetition), GETTING BACK TO PACK PRESSING
5) Response to pressing our backs ---------> TEAMS ARE GETTING MORE OF THE BALL BECAUSE WE HAVE NOT SOLVED THIS YET

Now, some of these issues might not be so bad if the transfer market purchases would have been different, but I am not convinced of this.  To me, it looks like this is a structural issue of team trying to grow too quickly, taking on too many competitions, and the organization is struggling to keep up.  All of this is taking place right after the world cup, where injuries are rampant, players are tired and our competition has been prepared.

These are my criticisms.  I stand behind them and break wind in their direction