Author Topic: Round Table: Man City v Liverpool: Scapegoats Paradise  (Read 21388 times)

Offline Corkboy

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Round Table: Man City v Liverpool: Scapegoats Paradise
« on: February 3, 2013, 07:28:23 pm »
Back in the olden days, religious folk of a certain persuasion would nominate one unfortunate goat, on whom their sins would be metaphorically laden and then they would banish said goat to the wilderness, along with all the sins. It was a pretty shitty thing to do to the goat.

Reina has always charged out. Always. Remember when he viciously assaulted Robben so badly, Rafa Benitez was moved to enquire after the poor boy's health? Pepe is a boisterous keeper, that's why he rarely gets the hackneyed, "ooh, the foreign keepers don't like it up 'em, do they" garbage. This time it didn't work out too well, but Aguero's finish was sublime. Or poxed flukey. Either way, Reina could charge out ten more times and there wouldn't be a goal in it. Agger may as well have put down fluorescent lighting for Dzeko when he scored the first but will we all call for him to be shipped out? Behave.

Right. Now that we've got that out of the way....

Systems/formations/set up? It looked like 4 4 1 1 without the ball, and when we had the ball, it was so fluid, I couldn't tell.

Sturridge was outstanding. Use all the different words you can think of to agree with me.

Carragher did well. Again.

Henderson as a left mid/false winger? The lad has such an engine that he can actually cover 1.5 positions quite easily.

The Lucas train gathers momentum, one stray pass out of defence notwithstanding.

And finally, is Gerrard back to his "GEEERRRRRAAARRRRRDDDDD!" best?

Offline Hinesy

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Re: Round Table: Man City v Liverpool: Scapegoats Paradise
« Reply #1 on: February 3, 2013, 08:08:19 pm »
Yes to all of the above. Like Arsene Wenger who likes to give presents to Utd, we like to give presents to City. But it was a fluke too. We are unlucky but we're also starting to understand each other and dare I say it, enjoy some of our football.
A settled side and consistent playing will proffer rewards. This season is about us trying to get back on a course and there are encouraging signs.
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Re: Round Table: Man City v Liverpool: Scapegoats Paradise
« Reply #2 on: February 3, 2013, 08:24:14 pm »
**Not Round Table Worthy**

What the absolute FUCK is a "false winger"?

;D

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Offline Corkboy

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Re: Round Table: Man City v Liverpool: Scapegoats Paradise
« Reply #3 on: February 3, 2013, 08:26:13 pm »
**Not Round Table Worthy**

What the absolute FUCK is a "false winger"?

;D

I put that in just to fuck with Dion Fanning.

Offline BreakfastPercy

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Re: Round Table: Man City v Liverpool: Scapegoats Paradise
« Reply #4 on: February 3, 2013, 08:50:12 pm »
If I can be a little sentimental, that Gerrard goal is one of my favorite footballing moments in recent memory, perhaps ever.

The ball drops and he just settles the world . Then that right foot hits it and you see the future arc of the ball and time goes all gluey like a Dali painting, and for a second there's a twenty year old Steven Gerrard and your younger self cheering him on through the prism. His big smile fades in and the net is shivering and Joe Hart's trying not to look grateful for the privilege of being that close to greatness.

God it'll be sad when that's gone. That we got him and kept him to ourselves is a match for any league title.

Offline Vulmea

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Re: Round Table: Man City v Liverpool: Scapegoats Paradise
« Reply #5 on: February 3, 2013, 09:37:36 pm »
Possibly the best we've played all season  as a team ok Luis didn't have his best game , nor Johnson and there were a couple of brainfarts at the back but it was our best XI and they played brilliantly and joyfully they can get even better

we kept going forward, we rarely took the easy option, we kept the ball but always with purpose - this is I hope how we want to play - this wasn't the frightened 2nd half at the Emirates we actually backed ourselves to outplay them and we did - this wasn't the sterile death by football it was football - for those who eulagised Wilshire on Wednesday I thought Aguero was better today and he still didn't deserve to win, he didn't even deserve a point despite the outrageous skill

it was great and I dont even mind they've buggered my weekend and moved the game to Monday against West Brom if we can play like that again
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Offline Cassiel

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Re: Round Table: Man City v Liverpool: Scapegoats Paradise
« Reply #6 on: February 3, 2013, 09:55:17 pm »
Bloody hell, Breakfast Percy, that's a lovely bit of writing. Perfecty encapsulates the Proustian surge of joy I felt when that burst the net. Hart's face was a picture. He knew he'd been done by something  beautiful. As Stevie celebrated, arms pointing outwards, it was like a film reel in the mind: Olympiakos, West Ham, countless other fucking times. I  hope this heralds another little run of scoring from him, and ignites the urge to get a wee bit further forward and give himself the chance to do that more often.

I enjoyed every second of the game. There were so many positives. Sturridge, obviously. Carra, despite my scepticism, was good. But I hope we don't push it too far with him. Lucas was a little better, though he was outpaced a few times, which tells you his positioning and sharpness is still not what it can be. But it soon will be. Despite a few dodgy passes in and around our box, I think Enrique makes us more robust and potent. Luis wasn't at his best, but he scared them shitless all day and the way he slipped through the middle of two lumbering pale blue stooges was glorious. We pressed and we harried and we made the most of their lack of lustre and their lack of Toure and Kompany.

The negative? You're right Corky, but I think Pepe at his best gets that. But the fact he didn't tells me he should cut it out for a bit. Sublime from Aguero though. But the main negative is the soft underbelly. We can't hold a lead and we need to learn fast. Get in front and focus like fuck.

The manager got it right. My only complaint was taking Sturridge off. In the last minute Agger - who had a nice eager little cameo at left back - cut one back and there was a Sturridge shaped hole. I know why Brendan did it, but they were there for the taking and I'd have kept him on.

Looks like I chose the wrong day to feed the pigeons...

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Re: Round Table: Man City v Liverpool: Scapegoats Paradise
« Reply #7 on: February 3, 2013, 10:12:06 pm »
Just want to add my dewy eyed appreciation for Percy's description of Gerrard's moment. 

On Sturridge I believe he had an injury so it was precautionary as much as it was tactical.  Shame because the lad was having a blinder.

Also good to see some sanity on the Reina thing in here.  Reina does it all the time, most times he wins it, on those occasions when he doesn't he usually manages to herd the striker into a cul-de-sac.  A touch of genius from Aguero made the decision look far worse than it actually was.  The crucial thing was not so much the delivery into the middle but the accuracy and more crucially the speed with which it was done, before defenders could occupy the goal.

Probably our best performance against this level of opposition for a while.  There are real signs of progress now.  And bloody hell we're bloody good to watch from a purely footballing point of view now.  Just need to grind out some wins against the top sides now.
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Re: Round Table: Man City v Liverpool: Scapegoats Paradise
« Reply #8 on: February 3, 2013, 10:20:47 pm »
Reina has always charged out. Always. Remember when he viciously assaulted Robben so badly, Rafa Benitez was moved to enquire after the poor boy's health? Pepe is a boisterous keeper, that's why he rarely gets the hackneyed, "ooh, the foreign keepers don't like it up 'em, do they" garbage. This time it didn't work out too well, but Aguero's finish was sublime. Or poxed flukey. Either way, Reina could charge out ten more times and there wouldn't be a goal in it.

I drop lead weights from the top window of my 42 storey apartment block into the street below ten times a day, but somehow nobody ever gets mooshed. There's not a judge in the land would convict me. ;)

Reina charged out and didn't touch Robben... but he was just as rash then. It was bollocks and he deserves clog for it, for me. Aguero made us pay, and it was a special finish (he's some player), but still, it was daft from Pepe. It changed the game. I'd have given him both barrels if I'd been centre half. Their first goal was a catalogue of errors too. But you half expected it, on some level. It still all felt a little too good to be true.

Systems/formations/set up? It looked like 4 4 1 1 without the ball, and when we had the ball, it was so fluid, I couldn't tell.

It was nice wasn't it? In both respects. And Sturridge...

Sturridge was outstanding. Use all the different words you can think of to agree with me.

A few moments just made you think, "Wow". The ball over the top and he's round Hart-2-Hart and Zabaleta's had to slide in last ditch. Then next thing he's haring off up the left and outrunning his marker while carrying the ball. Pinged cross-field balls. Looking pinned in the right hand corner and then two deft touches later and he's slipped the cover and opened it up again. Plus he's more physically imposing than Carroll was ever really capable of mustering, save for the odd flash, because he's not only big and athletic, he's fast and he's mobile. Bloody hell eh? It's really transformed things and we now have a counter attacking reference point we lacked so glaringly. The ball would always just come back at us before. Anyway, here's to it continuing.

Carragher did well. Again.

A couple of nervy moments of possession but yeah, we rode it out. Still makes me nervous though.

Henderson as a left mid/false winger? The lad has such an engine that he can actually cover 1.5 positions quite easily.

Was a great performance again. One heavy through ball aside, he was relentless.

The Lucas train gathers momentum, one stray pass out of defence notwithstanding.

That was the other big plus wasn't it? If he can get back to the right level from here, we'll really fly to the finish line.

And finally, is Gerrard back to his "GEEERRRRRAAARRRRRDDDDD!" best?

What can you say eh? He was impeccable throughout.

-

You can see it coming now eh? The style of play.
« Last Edit: February 3, 2013, 10:25:26 pm by royhendo »

Offline Harinder

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Re: Round Table: Man City v Liverpool: Scapegoats Paradise
« Reply #9 on: February 3, 2013, 10:32:27 pm »
Back in the olden days, religious folk of a certain persuasion would nominate one unfortunate goat, on whom their sins would be metaphorically laden and then they would banish said goat to the wilderness, along with all the sins. It was a pretty shitty thing to do to the goat.

Reina has always charged out. Always. Remember when he viciously assaulted Robben so badly, Rafa Benitez was moved to enquire after the poor boy's health? Pepe is a boisterous keeper, that's why he rarely gets the hackneyed, "ooh, the foreign keepers don't like it up 'em, do they" garbage. This time it didn't work out too well, but Aguero's finish was sublime. Or poxed flukey. Either way, Reina could charge out ten more times and there wouldn't be a goal in it. Agger may as well have put down fluorescent lighting for Dzeko when he scored the first but will we all call for him to be shipped out? Behave.

Right. Now that we've got that out of the way....

Systems/formations/set up? It looked like 4 4 1 1 without the ball, and when we had the ball, it was so fluid, I couldn't tell.

Sturridge was outstanding. Use all the different words you can think of to agree with me.

Carragher did well. Again.

Henderson as a left mid/false winger? The lad has such an engine that he can actually cover 1.5 positions quite easily.

The Lucas train gathers momentum, one stray pass out of defence notwithstanding.

And finally, is Gerrard back to his "GEEERRRRRAAARRRRRDDDDD!" best?

Firstly a little sigh. So close. So so close to a deserved win at the Etihad but for a goal more freakier than the very nature of how it happened. There may be a real festival amongst the sports pundits who need to carousel a lot of rubbish but common sense has to prevail. Aguero fluked it in my opinion. He'll get credited though as it being a masterclass goal but even he when pushed will probably be honest enough to call it what it was.

Or is there more chance of Dzeko getting straight up?  ;D

Formations wise the only thing I understood is that for a while Suarez was behind Sturridge and then that changed and then that changed and then that changed! Phase Of Play will no doubt ensure we are not perplexed by our shape and remove any confusion

Defensively we weren't bad actually. The usual far post failure didn't happen. We did though fall asleep at Maicon coming in right at the end for the corner. The goals we conceded were against the run of play and the encouragement we should look to take is more on what we did to prevent anything more. We were much better at fighting for the ball when we lost it and we were not all at sea in the middle whenever they came running towards us.

Sturridge. A word you may not have thought of is steel. It took balls of steel from him and the team to carry on when Dzeko decided to go back down to the ground and act more incapacitated than a muted RAWKite. The fact is that he held, turned, twisted and passed much better than any match prior. This helped on more than one occassion when the rest of the team were running up to join him

Henderson is the boo boys nightmare. Now he's playing well the responses are nice and "always knew he had it in him". The switch to the positive side of the spectrum is a welcome thing though at this time in the season. I'd love to believe that that very switch will filter through the same people to shower it on the team as it really is about the team. If there was no team structure and no team togetherness we wouldn't see anyone flourish or come through the lows into the highs.

I hate watching games on TV. It's been too long since I've done it and am too used to seeing the players more than the ball. That being said I don't think I'd have appreciated either Sturridge's goal or Gerrard's from the away fans location I was in last time I went to the Etihad. Both goals were sublime. Stevie's just nicks it for me as it was more clever than what the commentators gave it credit for. Getting everything right for a shot like that takes a genius.

Steve Clarke is probably realising that this won't be as simple as he originally thought since we last met them in the league. We are ironing out the last creases of the issues in our game overall and today shows just how much we have progressed from that day. If people cannot see that then I suggest a very simple remedy. Take a few days off work. Watch all the league matches to date.

Then, if said individuals still don't see progress, they can simply do one  8)
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Offline Mr Dilkington

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Re: Round Table: Man City v Liverpool: Scapegoats Paradise
« Reply #10 on: February 3, 2013, 11:11:42 pm »
I thought we were brilliant. The game was played on our terms, and we were far more fluent than Man City in the final third. The thing that came out of today for me is our progression in tight spaces. So many times City pressed us in numbers and we calmly played our way out of trouble - just goes to show the players are beginning to trust each other that bit more - the better we get at that the more doors will open at the top end of the pitch.

The defence did well today - nice to see Carra playing well again - a second wind perhaps? He used the ball well too didn't he? He usually drops back 10 yards behind Agger for security, but he still used it well, and it got their strikers pressing really high up - it gave Agger and the two full backs that bit more time on the ball which helped. Bar the goal, which was really disappointing, I thought Agger was great. He used it well, and he kept their strikers relatively quiet (no easy feat, because Aguero was really up for it today and showed some great moments). A word on Enrique, because I thought he was fantastic. We're starting to see the Enrique we saw at the start of last season, he's got to be the strongest full back in the league, and he really does have an amazing turn of pace. If Rodgers can drum it into him to move the ball quickly, he might just have a future here. Johnson put in his usual performance. Best full back in the league.

Gerrard and Lucas did really well too. Got to give credit to Downing and Henderson though - both give us that extra bit of solidity in the middle of the park. Henderson tucked in and filled gaps when he needed, as well as using the ball far better than he did against Arsenal. A word on the goal, because it deserves it! When the ball was controlled so well by our captain, my hopes raised a notch - the ball was coming down with very little spin - could the clocks be turned back like they were against Norwich? From the moment it left his right boot the answer was yes. It was a clear goal before Hart even moved a muscle. Beautiful. Before anyone jumps on my next point, I suppose I better mention I thought Henderson played well today! There were a few occasions today that made me pine for the introduction of Coutinho. When found in lots of space (usually created by Sturridge or Suarez) he doesn't really have the pace or dribbling ability to exploit it. Obviously Henderson has lots of attributes that Coutinho doesn't, but if Coutonho does fulfil his potenitial then I think that's a natural progression for the team.

DANIEL STURRIDGE by the way! One moment summed up my long held feelings on him. He got the ball out on the right wing, there was a midfield runner waiting for a pass, but instead he held off the defender, waited... waited... then a perfectly weighted pass through to Henderson. Anyone who thinks we've just signed a penalty box striker is clearly mistaken. He can do that job, but he can do so much more too. One of the best first touches about too. The best thing about his first touch is the way in which it opens up the whole pitch. It gives him a much bigger and clearer picture. The touch that took him round Hart was a moment of brilliance (not unexpected) Him and Suarez will wreak havoc.

Best performance of the season.
« Last Edit: February 3, 2013, 11:14:59 pm by Mr Dilkington »
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Offline Hinesy

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Re: Round Table: Man City v Liverpool: Scapegoats Paradise
« Reply #11 on: February 3, 2013, 11:28:56 pm »
And by the way whilst I'm here...
Dzeko did what any striker would do in those circumstances and Liverpool carried on playing to the whistle and were entirely justified by Dzeko's amazing recovery 30 secs after the goal. Storm in a teacup and if we get media backlash because of it, they can all happily shove the magic sponge so far up their arses it acts as mouthwash.
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Offline Corkboy

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Re: Round Table: Man City v Liverpool: Scapegoats Paradise
« Reply #12 on: February 3, 2013, 11:30:57 pm »
Reina charged out and didn't touch Robben... but he was just as rash then. It was bollocks and he deserves clog for it, for me. Aguero made us pay, and it was a special finish (he's some player), but still, it was daft from Pepe. It changed the game. I'd have given him both barrels if I'd been centre half.

I wasn't suggesting he be knighted. I made the schoolboy error of going into the other post match thread. It was difficult to make out, what with the burning torches and pitchforks, but I gather they wanted Pepe's firstborn.

Offline Aristotle

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Re: Round Table: Man City v Liverpool: Scapegoats Paradise
« Reply #13 on: February 3, 2013, 11:41:21 pm »
And by the way whilst I'm here...
Dzeko did what any striker would do in those circumstances and Liverpool carried on playing to the whistle and were entirely justified by Dzeko's amazing recovery 30 secs after the goal. Storm in a teacup and if we get media backlash because of it, they can all happily shove the magic sponge so far up their arses it acts as mouthwash.

I'll just touch on this for a moment. I fucking loved that we played on. It's one of the things that really, really gets on my nerves. Everytime someone is down and the ref waves play on there's this outrage that you should kick the ball out. If he's not injured, if it's not a foul and the referee or his assistants (the only people on the pitch who should make that decision) wave game on then you should.

Players are cheating the system constantly. Grabbing their heads everytime they lose out on a header to stop the opposition from going on the counter. Going down like they've been shot, refusing to give the ball back because a player is injured only for him to make a sprint back into his own penalty box. It happens all the time, in my opinion it's no different to the diving fiasco. Players are seeking an unfair advantage by tricking the referee and I'm bloody delighted we played on - and scored.
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Re: Round Table: Man City v Liverpool: Scapegoats Paradise
« Reply #14 on: February 4, 2013, 08:40:53 am »
You'd hope that if everyone returns from international duty fit that this week will have done wonders for the mentality of the group. (Just to segue a Benitez cliche with a Rodgers cliche.) They left that field with tangible pride, or so it seemed to me from the armchair, and it's got to be dawning that we have nothing to fear bar our own shadows, whoever the opposition.

Offline Veinticinco de Mayo

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Re: Round Table: Man City v Liverpool: Scapegoats Paradise
« Reply #15 on: February 4, 2013, 11:30:00 am »
And opened for general discussion....
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Re: Round Table: Man City v Liverpool: Scapegoats Paradise
« Reply #16 on: February 4, 2013, 11:38:06 am »
i thought we were brilliant, our passing around the back 4 still gives me heart attacks at times but we are getting better with it, Sturridge gave his best performance in a red shirt and was magnificent, travelling Kop booming the songs out magnificent as well, i will take the positives out of yesterday and not dwell on the minor blips, keep playing this way for the rest of the season and we will have definetly moved forward from last season albeit without winning a cup
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Offline LFCDad

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Re: Round Table: Man City v Liverpool: Scapegoats Paradise
« Reply #17 on: February 4, 2013, 11:43:56 am »
It was a great performance, we are really moving forward fast and I think bar Skrtel in for Jamie that was our Best XI, delighted to have Jose Enrique back, he like Henderson and Downing is rapidly improving and that's testament to the manager. I'm disappointed we didnt get the win but I think we can really press for that 4th spot now, I believe we could win 10 league games in the remaining matches, I'm really optimistic and I hope we push on from this performance.

I loved how we'd play it around the back and then all of a sudden, Lucas or Gerrard would ping it forward to Henderson/Downing/Suarez/Sturridge and we'd be hitting them direct at pace and scaring the shit of their defenders. That for me was something that I think BR has changed, it was sort of keeping the ball at the back with some neat one touch passes, pulling the whole City attack and midfield towards the ball, before hitting a direct pass into feet of one of our 4 attacking players, leaving them to run at their defence. Brilliant, loved it.

Luis was did under perform but thankfully we have other players stepping up and relieving some pressure off him. I have no bad words to say about the team at all, sure Pepe did kinda fuck it up but then again I see him coming out so many times like that and pressuring the forwards into losing the ball. Maybe Skrtel could have blocked off Aguero a bit better so he wouldnt have got to the ball first, I hope in future though we can extend our lead to 2 goals plus so we don't have to be frustrated by mistakes like these.
« Last Edit: February 4, 2013, 11:45:32 am by LFCDad »
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Offline Eeyore

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Re: Round Table: Man City v Liverpool: Scapegoats Paradise
« Reply #18 on: February 4, 2013, 11:47:25 am »
To be honest as a keeper if you charge off your line and don't beat the Striker to the ball then it is a grave error. Hopefully Mancini does the right thing and drops Hart for being beaten to the ball by Sturridge early on.

Being serious best performance of the season for me. We defended higher up the pitch and that allowed us to be more compact and we completely stopped Silva from getting in between the lines. Our midfield three totally dominated Garcia and Barry and that allowed us to dictate the majority of the game. The only slight worry for me was the naivety at the end we shouldn't be making unnecessary changes at centre back at that stage of the game. Wisdom on and Johnson switched to left back would of been more sensible for me and why are we defending 2v2 late on in a game we are winning.

If that was United the full backs would of dropped in and looked to protect the centre backs and they would of seen the game out.
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Offline Timbo's Goals

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Re: Round Table: Man City v Liverpool: Scapegoats Paradise
« Reply #19 on: February 4, 2013, 11:51:21 am »
If I can be a little sentimental, that Gerrard goal is one of my favorite footballing moments in recent memory, perhaps ever.

The ball drops and he just settles the world . Then that right foot hits it and you see the future arc of the ball and time goes all gluey like a Dali painting, and for a second there's a twenty year old Steven Gerrard and your younger self cheering him on through the prism. His big smile fades in and the net is shivering and Joe Hart's trying not to look grateful for the privilege of being that close to greatness.

God it'll be sad when that's gone. That we got him and kept him to ourselves is a match for any league title.


Beautiful little nugget that. I'm still deliberating over the last sentence like but still - beautiful.

 :)


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Re: Round Table: Man City v Liverpool: Scapegoats Paradise
« Reply #20 on: February 4, 2013, 11:51:35 am »
I'll just touch on this for a moment. I fucking loved that we played on. It's one of the things that really, really gets on my nerves. Everytime someone is down and the ref waves play on there's this outrage that you should kick the ball out. If he's not injured, if it's not a foul and the referee or his assistants (the only people on the pitch who should make that decision) wave game on then you should.

Players are cheating the system constantly. Grabbing their heads everytime they lose out on a header to stop the opposition from going on the counter. Going down like they've been shot, refusing to give the ball back because a player is injured only for him to make a sprint back into his own penalty box. It happens all the time, in my opinion it's no different to the diving fiasco. Players are seeking an unfair advantage by tricking the referee and I'm bloody delighted we played on - and scored.

exactly. Hope we continue to  do so as well.. look at when we kicked the ball out later on, instead of giving he ball back our keeper, they just kicked it out 2 feet from where we played it out.

another thing im interested in..Strurridges booking for the "dive".. Craig Burley{sure it was him} saying "even tho there was contact, it was a belated dive and deserved  the booking"
That made no sense to me, he was caught, he went over surely a pen, but never a booking..
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Offline helmboy_nige

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Re: Round Table: Man City v Liverpool: Scapegoats Paradise
« Reply #21 on: February 4, 2013, 11:56:31 am »
Systems/formations/set up? It looked like 4 4 1 1 without the ball, and when we had the ball, it was so fluid, I couldn't tell.

I've noticed this a lot in the last couple of months.  With the ball the interchanging between the front three and some of the midfield is so constant that no one seems to have a set position.  Until, that is, we lose the ball, then everyone slots in.  It's superb to see and you get a real sense for what Rodgers is trying to achieve.  We are still weak in some areas, but it's looking very very impressive especially in the middle and final thirds.

Sturridge was outstanding. Use all the different words you can think of to agree with me.

He was so good he out Suarez'd Suarez.  £12m.  Snip.

Carragher did well. Again.

A lot of people talked after the Arsenal game, myself included, about how while Carra had a great game it was at the expense of the system.  we sat too deep, we invited them onto us etc.  Sunday blew the whole thing out of the water.  That moment when he dived in and won the ball, but was booked because you "just can't do that anymore" made me feel quite nostalgic for the tackling of old.  He can stay in the side for the rest of the season for me if his legs hold out.

Henderson as a left mid/false winger? The lad has such an engine that he can actually cover 1.5 positions quite easily.

Quite hard to judge what Hendersons position actually was, other than he was superb wherever he popped up.  He's quickly becoming my new favourite, which is dangerous because having a love affair with a footballer can only end in badly (ie with them holding up a rivals shirt at the end of a transfer window!)

It isn't just about the energy of the lad, his touch is starting to show a new level of class.  A lot was written a few months ago that he doesn't add anything to the attack.  A lot of people are starting to look very silly.  Which leads me onto some other questions... what happens to the likes of Shelvey and Allen now?  Will they be happy rotating in?

The Lucas train gathers momentum, one stray pass out of defence notwithstanding.

It is true that he has been unconvincing since he came back, but it was important to let that slide because he was out for more than 12 months.  Yesterday was the first game in which he looked back to his best.  He played out of his skin and kept their attack quiet.  When I look back at the game there were not many moments when we worried about the Man City attack (the goals aside).  Compare that to Arsenal when we were clinging on for dear life.

And finally, is Gerrard back to his "GEEERRRRRAAARRRRRDDDDD!" best?

What a hit son!  Something has just clicked into place and I'll happily admit I was wrong on Gerrard earlier in the season.  I have been convinced for years that he can't play in a midfield 2 or 3 because he lacks the discipline.  The last 6 weeks or so he has shown real leadership, but not in the grab-all-attention style that used to dominate his game.  His performances are mature and gives me real hope that his career good go on longer than many of us felt possible.

Overall, the game was a joy to watch.  We just looked better than Man City in every area, but couldn't kill the game off.  There should, however, be no shame in that.  City hadn't conceded in 6 games and we put 2 past them.  They saved a point due to something that I would argue was part fortuitous, part world class from Aguero.

The moment of the match for me, was the first goal.  Many of us have screamed at Liverpool for putting the ball out when an oppo player is rolling around on the floor.  We've called it a sign of softness.  It showed a killer instinct to keep attacking, so much so that even a few passes before we scored I just had a feeling that we were going to put it away.  Haven't felt like that about a liverpool attack in eons.

Now let's make the hard work in recent weeks pay off with wins against West Brom and Swansea.

Offline gollne

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Re: Round Table: Man City v Liverpool: Scapegoats Paradise
« Reply #22 on: February 4, 2013, 12:02:40 pm »
Just like to say:

Wooo oooo woooo ooo woooooo we've got the best midfield in the world
we've gor Lucas and Hendo, Allen and Jonjo, Gerrard and Phil Coutinhoooo ooo oooo
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Offline DanA

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Re: Round Table: Man City v Liverpool: Scapegoats Paradise
« Reply #23 on: February 4, 2013, 12:05:58 pm »
You've got to be bullish after that game despite only getting a draw. Further evidence that we're now performing on a level competitive with top 4 teams even if we might not finish top 4.

On Reina he made a mistake but it took a bit of world class play to capitalize. I wouldn't be crucifying him for that one despite the obvious importance of the goal.

One thing I'd highlight is the importance of Enrique. I can't help but feel had he come on 5 minutes early against Arsenal, we'd have won it and likewise had he not come off against City we likely would have won that one too. Obviously it's hypothetical but I think not having a 2nd quality LB in the squat might have cost us 4 points in the last two games alone!

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Offline L666KOP

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Re: Round Table: Man City v Liverpool: Scapegoats Paradise
« Reply #24 on: February 4, 2013, 12:09:39 pm »
Just want to touch on something that those blinded by cynasism wont be able to see.
Steven Gerrard.

I believe Brendan Rodgers has done a remarkable job with him. He's managed to 'convert' him in to being able to play the 'Alonso' role, and still be able to be Steven Gerrard. A remarkable feat in itself, and to be able to do it with a player that's lost his legs and has no tactical dicipline to boot. Yesterday especially, but for the last few games he's really, and I mean really impressed me with his 'game knowledge'. It seems he's comfortable with what he needs to do. Helped by the resurgence of a certain Jordaan Henderson, who, whilst ultimately be the water carrier, has shown he can be trusted with the job of holding the midfield together.
The goal he scored was scant reward for the last few games he's played, and I don't mean to sound flippant when I say that, but he really deserved that 'moment in the sun' for being able to adapt to a new system, take it by the scruff of the neck, and once again show us what a truely exceptional talent he really is.
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Offline murdell

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Re: Round Table: Man City v Liverpool: Scapegoats Paradise
« Reply #25 on: February 4, 2013, 12:19:06 pm »
After arsenal and now City there is a sense Brendan has found a very good away set up. At home we have been very dominant. It bodes well for the last 13 games. This was a level up from Arsenal too and was very pleasing.

I've no comment to make on Reina, things happen. Sturridge was magnificent. A brilliant striker performance that was full of maturity. I knew he would get goals but I thought his general play would frustrate but that was a as good as you will see. Considering the lad couldn't sprint after his knock too and you really are left thinking there could have been 20% more.

With things bedded in for a season and 3 or 4 upgrades in the Summer I think we can all be optimistic of doing something next season. I'm very happy with the progress being made.


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Re: Round Table: Man City v Liverpool: Scapegoats Paradise
« Reply #26 on: February 4, 2013, 12:27:23 pm »
Easily best performace of the season, everyone going on about Reina, but to me the first goal was a worse one to concede as it was typical of recent games and should have been addressed..you cant plan for individaul errors but our defence went to sleep , as before , unacceptable! ...and like Arse and united we didnt make the opposition work hard enough to justify their goals....saying that ..what  90 minute perfomance ...thanks to the paucity of the league CL is on, its up to the team to show that belief.

Offline Red number seven

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Re: Round Table: Man City v Liverpool: Scapegoats Paradise
« Reply #27 on: February 4, 2013, 12:30:22 pm »
Top performance. Starting to look like a team, and a good one. Sturridge was electtric. The difference he has made - just in terms of space - is incredible and begs the question
whatthefuckwhereweplayingatinthesummertransferwindow? All about how to tighten the defence and thicken the squad now if we are going to compete for regular top four and major trophies every year.

Agree with Roy on Pepe - no business being out there, even if he usually does get away with it. Skrtel was comfortably covering. Utter quality from Aguero, though.

Made up we didn't kick the ball out. Dzeko wants to have a look at himself the fucking cheating tart.
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Offline It's Jimmy Corkhill

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Re: Round Table: Man City v Liverpool: Scapegoats Paradise
« Reply #28 on: February 4, 2013, 12:30:33 pm »
We win, lose or draw as a team.

I thought we were brilliant. I thought we'd tire after an hour - none of that. I thought they had a five-minute spell after Agueros equaliser, but even then, I wasn't ever standing there thinking "they're going to score here".

A bit more luck, cutting out the avoidable mistakes and a bit more maturity when we're leading, and in 12 months we'll be in a far better position. The mistakes we've made this season are easier to cut out than of something was fundamentally flawed. We are so close to being a good team. We just need to get some consistency.

The away lot were mental yesterday. Celebration of the season yesterday for Gerrards goal. There was a primal, defiant roar even before they'd kicked-off 2-1 down, a deafening "Liverpool, Liverpool, Liverpool" chant. Shouted at those who doubt us.

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Offline richmiller1

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Re: Round Table: Man City v Liverpool: Scapegoats Paradise
« Reply #29 on: February 4, 2013, 12:30:42 pm »
Before I go and accentuate the positives (and negatives) its probably worth bearing the following in mind.

1)   We scored with two long range efforts and the list of clear cut chances we created is short indeed.
2)   This was not a full strength City side

Right, those two inconvenient matters aside ............bloody hell, we deserved better than that.

Stunning team effort full of classy individual performances. Like an improved 90 minute version of the first half display at Arsenal, we largely controlled the defending champions in their own backyard for the whole game.

I think Rodgers has now settled on his first 11 of choice.........and it is very much top 4 worthy. The fact it is pretty much last year’s team with Carroll replaced by Sturridge is almost as interesting as the football they are trying to play.

Conceding two from two pieces of complete amateurism on our part is particularly frustrating because aside from Agger’s moment of ineptitude and Pepe’s moment of madness we were defensively sound throughout, probably as sound as we have been all season. City barely had a sniff.

The back five (including Pepe) are probably the biggest residual weakness we now have. Johnson and Enrique because we lack genuine cover. Pepe because he just isn’t very good anymore and hasn’t been for period now measured in years. The centre backs because a 35 year old is currently our standout performer, the erstwhile first choice pairing are appallingly out of form and remain error prone even when at their peak and the heir apparent hasn’t been trusted by either of his managers. The bulk of any summer transfer funds are going to need to be directed in this direction I feel.

Elsewhere thing just seem to be clicking. Lucas confirmed his return to fitness (if not form) by snuffing out Silva entirely. Gerrard looks like Gerrard again. Henderson continues to grow by the game. Downing is the reliable, technically gifted, hardworking winger we thought we were buying. Suarez remains Suarez. Sturridge does not look like a £12m player (Benitez must be banging his head against his desk after every performance.........what the hell were Chelsea thinking?). They all suddenly seem to understand what each other are thinking and whilst it didn’t exactly carve City open you have to remember just how good they are at the back. The domination of City’s midfield was almost total.

As for the Key Points:


Formations
I think it was a standard 4-3-3 without the ball, but Suarez was clearly given almost total Freedom when we had possession which makes it difficult to call at times. I liked it lots.

Reina/Agger
Both were pretty catastrophic bits of play.

Agger’s was probably worse given it was a series of errors, each worse that the last. Firstly ,don’t play your man onside when the rest of the back four is making a concerted effort to hold a line. Second, don’t then leave your man to escape unmarked in the box with a cross imminent. Third, don’t fail to block the cross.

Reina’s wasn’t much better. The instant he went I was asking aloud what the fuck he was playing at. Skrtel had Aguero covered, there was absolutely no need to charge out. World beating finish or no it was a mistake and you could see from his reaction that he knew it.

Carra

The old warhorse was flawless. I’ve seen it suggested that his lack of pace forcing us deeper seriously impacts on play ahead of him. I would have more time for such theories if he hadn’t played 90 minutes in our best two performances of the season (This and Norwich at home).

Whilst this is all well and good it remains an untenable situation moving into next season. One or two new centre backs are now a must.

Gerrard

He will always be judged mainly on goals and assists and both have crept back into his game of late. Seems to have adapted to what Rodgers was after and once again looks what he always has been. World class.

Sturridge

He really is some player. If not complete, then at least in possession of enough ability to give that impression. Quick, poweful, Skillful, has vision, has instinct. Aerial prowess aside its difficult to know  what more you could ask for. Its the way he spreads play that really impresses me. Previously when we have played 4-3-3 you just didn’t know it from an attacking sense as there were rarely more than two players ever seriously in play during an attack (Suarez +1). Having Sturridge has transformed us in that sense. He can seemingly shield the ball and turn out of most trouble and possesses the peripheral vision to bring players into the attack on either flank or in close quarters. Now when we attack defenders are worrying about 3,4 or 5 players. Combined with his pace and movement, which open up the option of simple balls down the channels, we are a genuine and varied attacking threat.

 
Henderson


The boy is just insanely fit. Almost does the work of two men. Even at 85 minutes in he was winning balls he had no right to, recycling the ball and making a lung busting charges down one of the channels. Exactly as he did only three days earlier. There is genuine quality to go with energy too. There are shades of a leggy elegant version of Mascherano in the ways he hunts down the ball. You just have to love him.

Offline Mercer

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Re: Round Table: Man City v Liverpool: Scapegoats Paradise
« Reply #30 on: February 4, 2013, 12:32:41 pm »
We outplayed the PL champions; albeit with their 2 best players missing, in their own yard.

A performance to be proud of.

Offline Adamski LFC

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Re: Round Table: Man City v Liverpool: Scapegoats Paradise
« Reply #31 on: February 4, 2013, 12:37:05 pm »
I thought that, while I waited for the Round Table, I would take a gander at the normally incediary Post-Match Discussion.  No sooner had I dropped in than the incendiary nature was confirmed, so it was back to other posts while waiting for the reflective, thoughtful and interesting circular piece of wood with four legs on.

Reading through this just reminds me, much as in the plea to reduce the reactionary response to mistakes, how much better RAWK is for thoughtful considered content.

Football, for all the preparation, is partly luck, the bounce of the ball, slight unevenness in the pitch and referees unsighted are just a few of the chances that can turn a sure fire win into a draw.  We played brilliantly, the best we have played, even under Kenny second time round.  This was a masterclass of how to play this way.  Kenny was a devil may care type approach to a team with nothing to lose.  This was systematic destruction of the premier league holders, who we lost to at Anfield, such is the progression.  Results are how you get points but 1 point here rather than 3 will not hurt us if we pick up 3 points where we would not expect to.

We cannot reasonbly get top 4 now, but playing this way could we win the Europa?

All in all a pleasure to watch.
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Offline redmark

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Re: Round Table: Man City v Liverpool: Scapegoats Paradise
« Reply #32 on: February 4, 2013, 12:37:26 pm »
Systems/formations/set up? It looked like 4 4 1 1 without the ball, and when we had the ball, it was so fluid, I couldn't tell.
Yep. Assymetrical, if we want to get into that (same as vs Norwich, a mirror of the Dalglish 88 side).

Sturridge was outstanding. Use all the different words you can think of to agree with me.
[hyperbole]I can't quite remember the last striker I saw for Liverpool put up such a complete performance - pace, shooting, flair, linkup/holdup play, creativity. Really.[/hyperbole]

Carragher did well. Again.
He did. We didn't defend too deep, either. Though if Agger is going to be slaughtered for the first goal, Carragher was on his heels a bit too for not blocking the cross (as were Lucas, Gerrard and Johnson at the throw in).

Henderson as a left mid/false winger? The lad has such an engine that he can actually cover 1.5 positions quite easily.
I think he's basically box-to-box; a tucked in wide role suits that better, I think, than his role at Arsenal where I think he was more noise than effect (yes, despite the goal and assist...).

The Lucas train gathers momentum, one stray pass out of defence notwithstanding.
On about the hour, I was screaming at him to take Aguero down before reaching a dangerous area; though he struggled to keep up, he did just enough to stop Aguero getting comfortable and eventually tumbling over. Physically getting there, and looking a bit more relaxed in possession.

And finally, is Gerrard back to his "GEEERRRRRAAARRRRRDDDDD!" best?
I think this is phase 3 of Gerrard's career. It's unlikely to be as long as 1 or 2, but it might be just as enjoyable.
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Offline Vinay

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Re: Round Table: Man City v Liverpool: Scapegoats Paradise
« Reply #33 on: February 4, 2013, 12:38:49 pm »
This Liverpool team is getting better and better. I cannot see us losing too many games as from now on, to be honest.
Where does Coutinho fit in by the way?

Offline The G in Gerrard

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Re: Round Table: Man City v Liverpool: Scapegoats Paradise
« Reply #34 on: February 4, 2013, 12:46:50 pm »
Where does Coutinho fit in by the way?

At home where the onus is on us to attack? I'd say Downing's position (who is perhaps better suited to the away games and more defensive side?).

We've deserved 6 pts from Arsenal and City away.

Offline El Lobo

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Re: Round Table: Man City v Liverpool: Scapegoats Paradise
« Reply #35 on: February 4, 2013, 12:48:57 pm »
At home where the onus is on us to attack? I'd say Downing's position (who is perhaps better suited to the away games and more defensive side?).

We've deserved 6 pts from Arsenal and City away.

I think we deserved 4 probably, not sure you can say we deserved to beat Arsenal. We played well for 60 minutes but still probably should have lost going on chances created. Man City was a terrific performance, and shows how the team is progressing. I hope to god we keep it up until the end of the season and see what it brings us.
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Offline Gnurglan

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Re: Round Table: Man City v Liverpool: Scapegoats Paradise
« Reply #36 on: February 4, 2013, 12:58:46 pm »
Back in the olden days, religious folk of a certain persuasion would nominate one unfortunate goat, on whom their sins would be metaphorically laden and then they would banish said goat to the wilderness, along with all the sins. It was a pretty shitty thing to do to the goat.

Reina has always charged out. Always. Remember when he viciously assaulted Robben so badly, Rafa Benitez was moved to enquire after the poor boy's health? Pepe is a boisterous keeper, that's why he rarely gets the hackneyed, "ooh, the foreign keepers don't like it up 'em, do they" garbage. This time it didn't work out too well, but Aguero's finish was sublime. Or poxed flukey. Either way, Reina could charge out ten more times and there wouldn't be a goal in it. Agger may as well have put down fluorescent lighting for Dzeko when he scored the first but will we all call for him to be shipped out? Behave.

Right. Now that we've got that out of the way....

Systems/formations/set up? It looked like 4 4 1 1 without the ball, and when we had the ball, it was so fluid, I couldn't tell.

Sturridge was outstanding. Use all the different words you can think of to agree with me.

Carragher did well. Again.

Henderson as a left mid/false winger? The lad has such an engine that he can actually cover 1.5 positions quite easily.

The Lucas train gathers momentum, one stray pass out of defence notwithstanding.

And finally, is Gerrard back to his "GEEERRRRRAAARRRRRDDDDD!" best?

Unfortunate with Reina. It's a mistake, but everyone makes mistakes. Just seem to happen vs City for some reason. Still a great finish by Aguero. It wasn't your regular tap in.

Thought we looked really good. Again. Powerful shots by Sturridge and Gerrard. Very nice to see Gerrard hitting them from distance again.

That pass from Lucas... I think it says a lot. It's one mistake and that's what we remember. It's good to have him back. Can't help but think it's because of him that we look more solid in defence. I'd also like to comment on Henderson. All the time I see him pass the ball sideways, or back. But there was one pass yesterday when he did the opposite. He got the ball forward and it made a huge difference for the better. Played through the entire midfield and set up an attack. He has it in him, I just wish he could do it more often.

But I'm still not sure what we're aiming for with Henderson. He's the handyman, the player who fills in where we have a gap. But I thought this idea, with him down the left and Suarez in a central position, was a far better idea than the one vs Arsenal, where Suarez was stuck on the left and Henderson was central.

We were the better side, away to the champions, and that's something to build on. Let's just make sure we keep this level of performance when we're facing lesser sides too.

        * * * * * *


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Offline n00bert

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Re: Round Table: Man City v Liverpool: Scapegoats Paradise
« Reply #37 on: February 4, 2013, 01:03:15 pm »
Think you can't really say anything more than the fact that we played extremely well.

A few observations:

Formation wise I think we played a 4-2-3-1. I think this suits us and the selection was good by Rodgers to have Henderson and Downing as covering players pegging back the fullback runs. Unfortunately, this is where we ran into trouble against Arsenal - while Downing/Wisdom did quite well, the Suarez/Johnson was less effective. I've had a chance to re-watch the Arsenal game and the difference in having Henderson play on the left adds a degree of solidity that Suarez, for all his industry, does not possess.

The two anchoring midfield players in Gerrard and Lucas were amazing. Everytime I see Lucas put in a performance like that I start to believe that he is nearing his best. Truth is, my gut tells me that he is quite a ways off so to see him put in a performance like that was very heartening. Gerrard played liked a captain should today and lead by example. I wonder whether the Lucas/Gerrard combination was made to look more effective than it was because Silva was terrible, Javi Garcia was terrible and Barry practically non-existant or whether we actually MADE them look so inferior. Regardless, there is no doubt which team won the midfield battle today.

Then there is the defence. Carragher again was practically faultless. I now feel terrible for writing him off as a has been and a player unable to adapt to Rodgers preferred style of play. We played a fairly high line today, but I guess with one less than quick striker it was always going to be likely than against Arsenal who are blessed with quite a bit of raw pace in midfield and attack.

Agger's mistake for the first but it happens. Thought that even after playing Dzeko on he was in position to make the interception on the cross but he somehow missed it. What I like about Danny is that when he makes a mistake and he knows it, he seems to play like a man possessed the rest of the game. On a whole he did very well as did Enrique and Johnson.

I am not going to have a go at Pepe. Of course its frustrating but I have seen him come out and the ball bounce of him for a corner more often than not. Aguero's finish also was absolutely brilliant.

Tactically I think we got ours spot on. I think we must give Rodgers credit where its due and I think he recognised that City's build up tempo can be really quite slow till they get to the edge of the opponents box, so much so they really look turgid in comparison to Arsenal . This in turn allows us to press more effectively. That I think was the key to unsettling this City team and we must learn to employ it much more effectively and do it more consistently.

Suarez again wasn't brilliant but how good is it that we don't have to rely on him for everything. He is clearly tired and the long-ish break between games is going to do him a world of good. Lad has played a lot of football and put in a lot of yards and I think it was always going to show at some point. It's nice to see that we are now not toothless if he's not firing on all cylinders.

Sturridge already looks like £12 well spent. I'll say it again, he reminds me of Fernando Torres in his prime (sans maybe heading ability). His pace is scary, dribbles well, has great vision, holds up play excellently, shoots well. He will only get better I think and I am thanking Roman for being so obstinate about Torres.  Chelsea have let a gem of a player go for a really cheap price and for once we are reaping the benefits of some shrewd business.

Can't wait for our upcoming run of games now. Fancy us to take maximum points if we can keep this lineup fit.


Offline John Zac

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Re: Round Table: Man City v Liverpool: Scapegoats Paradise
« Reply #38 on: February 4, 2013, 01:05:20 pm »
Reina has always charged out. Always. Remember when he viciously assaulted Robben so badly, Rafa Benitez was moved to enquire after the poor boy's health? Pepe is a boisterous keeper, that's why he rarely gets the hackneyed, "ooh, the foreign keepers don't like it up 'em, do they" garbage. This time it didn't work out too well, but Aguero's finish was sublime. Or poxed flukey. Either way, Reina could charge out ten more times and there wouldn't be a goal in it. Agger may as well have put down fluorescent lighting for Dzeko when he scored the first but will we all call for him to be shipped out? Behave.

Wouldn't read much into individual errors as long as it doesn't expose an obvious weakness, which the opposition will most likely look to exploit. Unfortunately for Reina, he has made too many mistakes, else this would have been forgotten by today. 


Systems/formations/set up? It looked like 4 4 1 1 without the ball, and when we had the ball, it was so fluid, I couldn't tell.
I wont bother about the 4-2-3-1 or 4-4-1-1, because it was too flexible. It was like zones divided to players, and each zone was asymmetrical. It appeared to me as if Henderson had a wider zone to operate where as Downing had a narrower zone.

Sturridge was outstanding. Use all the different words you can think of to agree with me.
He holds the ball well and defenders would think twice before putting a tackle in as for the fear of conceding fouls. Always looking for space, sometimes dropping deeper(for his goal). Has a bit of arrogance in him with the ball. Confident, trusts his skills and not afraid of losing the ball.

Carragher did well. Again.
I thought Carra wasn't tested much. Didn't make any mistake. Thought he could have been a bit tight for the 1st goal and covered the post(at least make an attempt) for the 2nd.

Henderson as a left mid/false winger? The lad has such an engine that he can actually cover 1.5 positions quite easily.
Cant demand more from him from a defensive point of view, could work on his tackles though. Though he has improved a lot in recent months, I thought he could work on his movements with the ball. Sometimes he slows down the counter attacks, maybe due to lack of confidence, not trusting his abilities, or fear of losing possession. A bit of confidence and we have a very good player in our hands

The Lucas train gathers momentum, one stray pass out of defence notwithstanding.
Seemed to tire towards the end of the game. He was immense in the first half and better part of the 2nd.

And finally, is Gerrard back to his "GEEERRRRRAAARRRRRDDDDD!" best?
With the ball there is no question. But the problem seemed to be off the ball in deeper positions and in recent games, he has been brilliant. Need to carry this form for the rest of the season.

Offline jason42

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Re: Round Table: Man City v Liverpool: Scapegoats Paradise
« Reply #39 on: February 4, 2013, 01:05:43 pm »
Read somewhere else that a poster believed that Pepe had cost us 3 points but I am sure we got a point yesterday so perhaps he meant 2 points...;)
Look at Carra when Pepe goes out there. I was always taught that if the keeper leaves his goals then you as the defender have to get back on to his line to cover him but Carra believes the danger is likely to come from the cutback so he slows down and waits in the area. Aguero scores a fluke - probably couldn't do it more than 10 times in every 100 goes and many times Pepe has gone out there and saved the situation.
Also read somewhere that Pepe doesn't make saves any more that keep us in the game yet he made a few against Arsenal and one against City yesterday that looked to be certain goals. If Silva had scored yesterday so early in the game, I think we could well have folded and City gone on the rampage against us.

Brendan is half a season in and you can see that the players are starting to get to grips with how he wants them to play. Yes it gets twitchy when they are passing the ball around on the edge of our area but we will and they will get used to it. Imagine how good we could be next season after a good summer window and a proper pre season under BR...
Quote from: macca888 link=topic=276522
Came to this thread a bit late, but from what I've read, the real relationship trouble is not between you and your girl, but between you and a small box of Tampax. You obviously need something more substantial in your life like a huge Costco sized box of jam rags, seeing as you're such a massive fucking quim