Author Topic: How to beat the parked bus  (Read 17625 times)

Offline clinical

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How to beat the parked bus
« on: February 12, 2017, 01:58:25 pm »
We all know by now that we struggle against the weaker teams. People have talked about mentality against them, maybe we go into these games thinking it will be easy etc. I don't buy that. I also don't think it's anything to do with the players.

These weaker teams compact the centre of the pitch. Force us wide and make us put crosses in. The trouble is without Mane and even with Mane we are still quite narrow. Coutinho tucks in on the left and Mane or does on the right. This works well against the bigger teams who try and win the game as there's more space in the centre. Unfortunately it does not against the smaller teams. We lack width especially on the left to stretch these teams. Basically I believe a good winger in summer who can play on left goes along way to fix this issue.

The otherside is defensively. The press makes it very easy for these teams to lump it long and cause us issues on the counter. Two things I think we can do here. First watching Chelsea the amount of little fouls they do to stop the counter is unbelievable. It's frustrating to watch but it works so well. The other of course is to go and sign a player like Kante/mascherano to play in these games.

I don't think we're miles away from being able to stop this trend. Of course our keeper and defense don't help sometimes. But little adjustments and a few signings can change everything. We have the beating of the best teams. Arguably the hardest part to win the league. Now we need to work out how to beat the shite.
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Re: How to beat the parked bus
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2017, 02:17:54 pm »
We don't need a plan B, we need other Plan A's.

Teams have cottoned onto us in that we love being around the ball and love space, teams have began to manage where we have the ball and by our own nature, we flood the area in and around the ball with players - Ergo, we can at times, become too compact and are easily managed as the defending team is managing the space around us and not trying to manage the space in between us.

For me, its isn't about the style or the attitude, but the formation. In certain games, we need to have dare I say it - A more rigid formation approach - put a striker on the shoulder of a centre halve and tell hin to stick there, tell the opposing flanking players not to get too sucked into the the play, thus not reducing our width, whihc happens far to often aginst these teams.

Due to some favours for people - I sat in the lower centenary under the scoreboard for the Wolves, Swansea and  Plymouth games, and the times looking across the line, when our attacking players where all drawn to the ball and compacted into about a quater of the width of the pitch and the oppositions defence firstly were not having to defend/mark anyone and just watch the play unfold dfrom a distance and adjust their position accordingly - was achingly frequent and annoying.

And to be fair, if we look at others to learn from(which we should) look what happened to Chelsea when they made a formations change. Now I'm not saying totally overhaul the system, just have another Plan A for specific games and not default to something different during the game. Our flexibility and adaptability(which is a major strength of the team), in a formation approach, will have teams flummoxed on how were are going to play. Which makes us unpredictable, whihc makes us anightmare to play against. Currently, against a 'park the bus team' we are far too predictable.




PS, and for the record - Flummoxed is very underused word.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2017, 02:22:09 pm by Ignatius J. Reilly »
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Offline NaivetyinBlack

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Re: How to beat the parked bus
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2017, 02:18:48 pm »
We were beating the parked bus by putting 4-5 goals past them only 6 odd weeks ago.

The problem was Mane and Phil's absence and then Klopp's strange persistence to play Can, slow the tempo to a crawl (which we had not seen since pre Brendan era. Even under Brendan we were generally quick off the blocks against a parked bus. This January was just bizarre) and just general bad form of players like Firmino.

We have the best front 6 back again and lo'n behold, we looked full of ideas and creativity yesterday. It's going to be fine now. Unless Klopp reverts to the antiklopp January way of playing.

Offline clinical

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Re: How to beat the parked bus
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2017, 02:36:05 pm »
We don't need a plan B, we need other Plan A's.

Teams have cottoned onto us in that we love being around the ball and love space, teams have began to manage where we have the ball and by our own nature, we flood the area in and around the ball with players - Ergo, we can at times, become too compact and are easily managed as the defending team is managing the space around us and not trying to manage the space in between us.

For me, its isn't about the style or the attitude, but the formation. In certain games, we need to have dare I say it - A more rigid formation approach - put a striker on the shoulder of a centre halve and tell hin to stick there, tell the opposing flanking players not to get too sucked into the the play, thus not reducing our width, whihc happens far to often aginst these teams.

Due to some favours for people - I sat in the lower centenary under the scoreboard for the Wolves, Swansea and  Plymouth games, and the times looking across the line, when our attacking players where all drawn to the ball and compacted into about a quater of the width of the pitch and the oppositions defence firstly were not having to defend/mark anyone and just watch the play unfold dfrom a distance and adjust their position accordingly - was achingly frequent and annoying.

And to be fair, if we look at others to learn from(which we should) look what happened to Chelsea when they made a formations change. Now I'm not saying totally overhaul the system, just have another Plan A for specific games and not default to something different during the game. Our flexibility and adaptability(which is a major strength of the team), in a formation approach, will have teams flummoxed on how were are going to play. Which makes us unpredictable, whihc makes us anightmare to play against. Currently, against a 'park the bus team' we are far too predictable.




PS, and for the record - Flummoxed is very underused word.

Yeah good post I agree. Two types of ways to play. We seem to play the same system whoever we play. A few subtle changes and we'd be much better against these teams. But it's not a new thing it's been going on for years this, even back to the Rafa days. It's weird because It's almost the opposite problem arsenal face. They usually beat the poor sides and lose against good sides. I'd rather be in our situation as it should be easier to work out.
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Offline Johnnyboy1973

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Re: How to beat the parked bus
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2017, 02:46:02 pm »
Have that front six and Matip available for the rest of the season.
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Re: How to beat the parked bus
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2017, 02:58:27 pm »
Rule number 1 is dont give away stupid goals. If its hard to score 1 then dont give yourself a need to score 2.

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Re: How to beat the parked bus
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2017, 02:59:25 pm »
Score more goals than them

Offline SerbianScouser

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Re: How to beat the parked bus
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2017, 03:14:48 pm »
Use Can at the back with Matip. Have them both moving with the ball and attacking open spaces relentlessly.

Move Milner to right back and pick Moreno again on the left - this combination gives us a better balance and a better chance for our fullbacks to get to the byline more often.

However even if we don't make these changes I'm not worried one bit as up until January our record against bottom 13 was excellent. We scored 38 goals in 13 games. You can't ignore that period and focus just on one month where we hit the wall due to injuries which led to a loss of confidence.

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Re: How to beat the parked bus
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2017, 03:16:12 pm »
Earlier in the season it didn't matter how high we pressed because whenever the opposition got the ball we'd hem them in and stop them from switching play or hitting a decent long ball. The issue we've had lately is we have zero depth when it comes to players who press, Sturridge, Origi and Can, our main three subs for that front six, are all a poor fit in that regard. As soon as one comes in we start to leave gaps in the press that the opposition play out of, and suddenly we're exposed. We need more quality players who fit into that press.

As far as actually scoring against these teams goes, being better defensively will help just by making the game mentally much more difficult for the opposition and making every goal we score count. I also think we need better attacking fullbacks, Clyne's one weakness is his technical ability and Milner lacks pace and a natural left foot, though finding alternatives who improve on those players would be difficult.

Offline ToneLa

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Re: How to beat the parked bus
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2017, 03:25:53 pm »
Pass, move, pace, tricks, long shots, park the bus ourselves and act like we will settle for 0-0....

Offline Jfor83

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Re: How to beat the parked bus
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2017, 05:04:03 pm »
Rule number 1 is dont give away stupid goals. If its hard to score 1 then dont give yourself a need to score 2.

This this and this

Offline Medellin

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Re: How to beat the parked bus
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2017, 05:30:45 pm »
Sit back..invite a bit of pressure if needs must.
How do you get past 10 defenders? Encourage them not to be!
A dangerous game but one a goal up they have to come out.
We are quite devastating at counter attack.
Give the opposition a false sense of what the fuck is going on here.

To be honest..with our front 6 fit & will defo gain momentum i don't think we'll need it.
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Offline lamonti

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Re: How to beat the parked bus
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2017, 05:38:00 pm »
Ultimately: move the ball quicker, with quicker passes.
We struggled in the games against the press because we played shit, slow football in front of teams, not because of a tactical trick.

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Re: How to beat the parked bus
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2017, 06:25:39 pm »
Ultimately: move the ball quicker, with quicker passes.
We struggled in the games against the press because we played shit, slow football in front of teams, not because of a tactical trick.

Absolutely this. Move the ball quicker and get players running ahead of the ball and in behind the defence.

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Re: How to beat the parked bus
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2017, 06:32:10 pm »
First things first we need to stop losing against teams that park the bus. To do that, we need to be patient. Don't just throw the kitchen sink at the opposition and leave the defence exposed. Keep it at 0-0 for long enough and the pressure will tell and the goal will come. Sunderland at home this season is a perfect example.
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Offline Upinsmoke

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Re: How to beat the parked bus
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2017, 06:33:23 pm »
We need different players and we don't have them at the club right now. I think Coutinho and Firmino struggle mostly against these teams. Coutinho because he can't find gaps when coming inside, either to play a through ball or shoot. Firmino comes deep which is fine in it's self but there's nobody that can make runs beyond him, he also has nothing to press.

Milner also struggles with this imo because he looks to play the ball inside and doesn't really have the athleticism at his age to keep hugging the touchline and stretching the opposition.

Solution to this imo would be find a more natural wide alternative and move Coutinho deeper where he can influence play more. Klopp himself has moved him deeper midway through games when we've had trouble breaking teams down. We also don't need Henderson and Wijnaldum and Can etc for these games, one would suffice such as henderson deepest and then more creative players like phil and lallana either side of him.

That would be a start, also a costa/lewandowski type player, 6 foot 1/2
« Last Edit: February 12, 2017, 06:34:55 pm by Upinsmoke »

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Re: How to beat the parked bus
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2017, 06:41:39 pm »
Here is a photo of your typical parked bus team - all 11 behind the ball, just waiting for you to misplace a pass.



As you can see the fullbacks are nicely tucked in by the centre halfs - so much so they can almost hold hands.  A solid three infront of the centre halfs and two players outwide to cover the width, ready for the counter and a forward staying central making the numbers in the middle all the greater.

You need to break the bus up. 

A good winger will look for space, a good winger will hog the touchline to create space, and a good winger will pull a weak fullback out of position and make him come to him, making him let go of the centre halfs hand.



here's a touchline hugging winger in robben pulling the arsenal fullback away from the centre half leaving a lovely big space between centre half and fullback to be exploited.



and voila, chances are created, after that it's upto you to take em.

Offline scalatore

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Re: How to beat the parked bus
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2017, 06:42:46 pm »
Honestly, some of it seems psychological. We're relentless against teams that want to play more open football, getting straight onto every clearance and pushing back up to their goal, but we get frustrated when the bus is parked, and then we get sloppy. We don't seem to get to rebounds or clearances as fast - it's like we give up hope of breaking the opposition down. It's certainly not all down to psychology, but I think the players know it's a problem.

Klopp will fix it. All-out defence is an effective strategy in football though, and not just against Liverpool FC.

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Re: How to beat the parked bus
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2017, 06:48:22 pm »
Aside from Burnley before January we had no problems, we were scoring goals and winning games [we played West Brom,Boro,Sunderland,Hull,Watford] all sides which parked the bus but we found a way eventually and convincingly.

The problem as mentioned, the injury to Coutinho and then Mane leaving, meant we had two adjust two key positions which totally fuck up how we play. Because of that we also shifted can into midfield which slowed down our tempo and passing.

The key is the same, move quick, high tempo, good movement on and off the ball, and we will win.

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Re: How to beat the parked bus
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2017, 06:50:46 pm »
here's a touchline hugging winger in robben pulling the arsenal fullback away from the centre half leaving a lovely big space between centre half and fullback to be exploited.
I've been mentioning Robben myself too recently as a profile of the player - a specialist dribbler - who could be a solution for teams that want to be too compact horizontally against us. They do that for not fearing someone like Clyne but if you had a dribbler receiving the ball on the touchline and then driving towards the box at full speed it creates a tons of challenges for such team. A player of that profile most realistic for us to get in this moment is Mahrez imo.

Keep it at 0-0 for long enough and the pressure will tell and the goal will come. Sunderland at home this season is a perfect example.
I can't think of anything more important against lesser teams than scoring within first 20 minutes. If you do that they'll be half thinking about their next game. The longer we don't score the more confidence they'll have trying to snatch a draw or nick a win through a set-piece or a counter.

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Re: How to beat the parked bus
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2017, 06:56:06 pm »
Have that front six and Matip available for the rest of the season.

Yes this.

Offline Solomon Grundy

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Re: How to beat the parked bus
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2017, 06:57:24 pm »
Just a quick question - Has any other teams tactics or way to get around their tactics been discussed at length more than Liverpool's this season? It seems that every pundit or Journo has had his say on what you have to do to beat us. I can't remember hearing or seeing anything similar regarding our rivals for top four or any other club in the league for that matter.

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Re: How to beat the parked bus
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2017, 06:59:14 pm »
Just a quick question - Has any other teams tactics or way to get around their tactics been discussed at length more than Liverpool's this season? It seems that every pundit or Journo has had his say on what you have to do to beat us. I can't remember hearing or seeing anything similar regarding our rivals for top four or any other club in the league for that matter.

Ours and Chelsea's. Theirs is more of a formational change piece, but ye, just them and us.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2017, 07:01:17 pm by MOOBS »
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Offline darragh85

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Re: How to beat the parked bus
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2017, 07:02:38 pm »
i think mane and coutinho together are key to beating that system. Coutinho can draw defenders out of position and pass around them. Manes speed pulls them out of position.

i think a physical centre forward who can play and press defenders and be happy to be second choice in most games would be ideal for us but that could be asking for a lot and if we cant have that then forget about it. last thing we want is a static lazy striker like benteke or carroll again.

Offline SwordInYourGut

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Re: How to beat the parked bus
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2017, 07:03:09 pm »
If we don't win it, we should be getting a 0-0. It is not acceptable that teams come here with no intention of attacking and manage to score goals (plural). Hull, Swansea, Sunderland, Burnley and Palace have managed to score 2 or more goals against us.

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Re: How to beat the parked bus
« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2017, 07:03:22 pm »
Ours and Chelsea's. Theres is more of a formational change piece, but ye, just them and us.

Aaahhh yeah, Chelsea switching to a back three.

Just seems odd that people seem to be going out of their way to tell everyone what you have to do to beat us. It's almost like they're scared.

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Re: How to beat the parked bus
« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2017, 07:06:14 pm »
I think our complete lack of threat at set pieces over the last few seasons is also key. Against the park the bus teams, we invariably have a lot of corners and a couple of free kicks around the box. We need to make these opportunites count, as clear chances from open play can be at a minimum. Thinking back over the last 15/20 years to the successful sides, Yernited had Beckham and Chelsea had Robben as just two examples, their deliveries often led to goals against opposition who'd come for damage limitation.
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Offline SwordInYourGut

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Re: How to beat the parked bus
« Reply #27 on: February 12, 2017, 07:06:46 pm »
Aaahhh yeah, Chelsea switching to a back three.

Just seems odd that people seem to be going out of their way to tell everyone what you have to do to beat us. It's almost like they're scared.
If their best hope against us is to sit tight in two banks of four and counter, they should be scared. Very scared.

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Re: How to beat the parked bus
« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2017, 07:10:13 pm »
Aaahhh yeah, Chelsea switching to a back three.

Just seems odd that people seem to be going out of their way to tell everyone what you have to do to beat us. It's almost like they're scared.

There has to be some finer nuanced change to how we adapt oursleves to beating or overcoming this 'park the bus' style team.

OR!.....we could just go all FSG in this debate like the biffs in the other thread and put everything down to money and spend and the lack there of....... Chelsea spent loads to change to a back 3 of course.................
« Last Edit: February 12, 2017, 07:11:51 pm by MOOBS »
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Re: How to beat the parked bus
« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2017, 07:11:26 pm »
If their best hope against us is to sit tight in two banks of four and counter, they should be scared. Very scared.

You said banks. Get out , and chat your monetary based drivvle with the other biffs in the FSG thread. Banks! .................. pfffffffffffft!
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Offline Solomon Grundy

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Re: How to beat the parked bus
« Reply #30 on: February 12, 2017, 07:11:55 pm »
I think the lad above talking about set-piece deliveries could be onto something you know.

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Re: How to beat the parked bus
« Reply #31 on: February 12, 2017, 07:12:33 pm »
Patience.

A game is 90 mins. Even if it's 0-0 at 80 mins, we still have time and need to believe we can get the gaol.

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Re: How to beat the parked bus
« Reply #32 on: February 12, 2017, 07:17:56 pm »
I think the lad above talking about set-piece deliveries could be onto something you know.

and someone to get on the end of them. all these teams that park the bus have a significant height advantage.

anyone watch belotti for Torino. seems like a strong lad who is good on the ball. does he score many headed goals?

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Re: How to beat the parked bus
« Reply #33 on: February 12, 2017, 07:20:40 pm »
This is Klopp's job to work out. We can all put in our twopence worth worth at the end of the day the team needs to sort it out.

We are great when there are players to press and when the opposition are trying to press themselves. Against Spurs we had targets to hunt down when they had the ball or when we had the ball we were using short passes or spraying the ball into space.

However "park-the-bus" teams will let us pass around all day in places where they aren't being hurt. We don't have anyone to press nor anyone to play around or play balls over the top when the other team are all within 20 yards of their own goal.

It is very hard to pass through a team that all are within 5 yards of each other.

It's hard to resort to long range shooting as there are so many players in the way.

The best way is to score first and then they will have to come out. If it's 0-0 then they will be happy and patient. Let them score first and you have a mountain to climb. So rather then play our expansive football I'd keep it very tight and boring. Let them think that there is little threat and then play round them down the wings.

Unfortunately there is little that you can do other than sling crosses into the box if they sit with 10 players in and around their box.

Maybe pack the midfield and don't throw everybody forwards. Instead look to outnumber and isolate one or two of their players on the flanks which will tend to draw the defenders over to that side. Play very lopsided with nobody down the left when attacking. Try to be sly and look for freekicks around the area. Pull everybody out of their box so that their defence have nobody to mark and then send players in in tight groups targeting space. Be mobile and fluid and always be moving players in and out with no set positions. Make defenders either have to move across their area or hand over marking to one another........so move sideways. Keep their defenders concentrating by constant movement both sideways and in and out of the area.

the last thing to do is to try too hard and leave yourself open to the counter-attack.

I'm sure that we will work it out.

« Last Edit: February 12, 2017, 07:25:31 pm by stockdam »
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Offline redbyrdz

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Re: How to beat the parked bus
« Reply #34 on: February 12, 2017, 07:22:36 pm »
What do other teams do to beat the bus?
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Offline Solomon Grundy

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Re: How to beat the parked bus
« Reply #35 on: February 12, 2017, 07:29:42 pm »
Best way to beat teams that park the bus from open play, is if who have players who are willing to drive at the opposition, players who are willing to have a go and take them on. This by itself can create panic, which in turn creates space left occupied by those who have left their position in order to try and stop the player who is driving at their defence.

Offline stockdam

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Re: How to beat the parked bus
« Reply #36 on: February 12, 2017, 07:33:02 pm »
What do other teams do to beat the bus?

Not many are good at it. The best that I have seen are Argentina. Their forwards are constantly changing position and moving towards the ball as if there's a code. The midfield ping the ball to the attackers, receive the ball back and quickly pass to another attacker. They aren't playing the ball "forwards" but it goes quickly in a "W" pattern across the field. The forwards coming back tend to drag defenders out which leaves gaps. Once a gap appears the midfield use a 1-2 to move into space. Messi is the best at this and the ball is constantly moving and the formation of the front line also changes very quickly. They keep the ball and use short quick passes to probe and move the defenders around. Obviously it takes a lot of good control and to some extent practice to work out patterns. They play as a unit and a lot of it is one touch.
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Offline BobPaisley3

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Re: How to beat the parked bus
« Reply #37 on: February 12, 2017, 07:33:44 pm »
So rather then play our expansive football I'd keep it very tight and boring. Let them think that there is little threat and then play round them down the wings.
I know it's all water under the bridge but I remember thinking we should have done exactly that against Chelsea in 2014. It was never going to happen after the way we'd played all season, but it would have been interesting to see Maureen's response if we'd played with a deep formation, allowing them to have the ball. The world and his wife knew they weren't crossing the half way line unless a real opportunity presented itself. A point would have been a great result in hindsight.
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Offline darragh85

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Re: How to beat the parked bus
« Reply #38 on: February 12, 2017, 07:35:27 pm »
What do other teams do to beat the bus?

barcelona, despite their immense attack, struggle with teams that play this way. Obviously Atletico done them in the champions league last season and Betis held them to a draw recently playing like this.

what if we just sit back for the start of games? first 20 minutes just knock it about the back and see what effect that has on these teams? might psyche them out   ;D

Offline stockdam

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Re: How to beat the parked bus
« Reply #39 on: February 12, 2017, 07:37:00 pm »
Best way to beat teams that park the bus from open play, is if who have players who are willing to drive at the opposition, players who are willing to have a go and take them on. This by itself can create panic, which in turn creates space left occupied by those who have left their position in order to try and stop the player who is driving at their defence.

That's not easy as there's a 2nd defender behind the first one. Stevie G and Torres were good at it. Torres would be marked by the last line of defenders. SG would play a short 1-2 with Torres and run past the first line of defenders. The last line would have to try to get to the ball before SG and if they didn't there would often be a foul (or penalty) or he would burst into the box.

That's a good way of breaking down the packed box. Get one or two forwards who move towards the ball carrier and play a 1-2 back to a fast running midfielder.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2017, 07:38:57 pm by stockdam »
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