Author Topic: Pre Match Thread - Liverpool vs. Burnley - Sun 12th Mar - 16:00  (Read 21504 times)

Online Wool

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Re: Pre Match Thread - Liverpool vs. Burnley - Sun 12th Mar - 16:00
« Reply #120 on: March 9, 2017, 09:00:35 AM »
I hope Moreno starts as well. Defensively he's not great, and I honestly don't think he's a particularly great attacking fullback either since he's quite wasteful when he gets the ball up the pitch, but what he does do is stretch them and offer a constant outlet out wide. Milner is way too predictable in his play and that works in the favour of teams who just want to sit back and stifle us.

Offline Felch Aid

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Re: Pre Match Thread - Liverpool vs. Burnley - Sun 12th Mar - 16:00
« Reply #121 on: March 9, 2017, 09:04:20 AM »
Working in Burnley and being surrounded by their fans is not easy!

The one thing Burnley don't play well against is pace. We didn't have Mane last time so that in itself is a huge bonus. Pretty tika taka football won't get us anywhere.

They'll likely go with Vokes and Gray up top to hit long on the counter with Gray using his pace on any Vokes knock down so we'll need to be careful. Early goal is crucial because they'll come out and play which isn't their style.

Think we'll win 3 - 0 with the holy trinity up top getting 1 each.

Offline redk84

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Re: Pre Match Thread - Liverpool vs. Burnley - Sun 12th Mar - 16:00
« Reply #122 on: March 9, 2017, 09:23:05 AM »
If the game is at a slow pace, we'll find it hard to break them down if we get frustrated.

We are capable of finding a quick couple of passes or a break on them if they venture into our half but we have to show the sort of patience we were showing in the first half of the season. Surely the criticism of our performances against the lower ranked sides in the league have hit home hard recently. Usually we're ok at home so I think we should Burnley away but its the next away game I will be keen to see how we get on (against a team like them)

Anyways, this weekend I predict a win for the reds and some much needed momentum....feels like a millennium since we got two wins on the trot

2-0 reds
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Offline fowlermagic

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Re: Pre Match Thread - Liverpool vs. Burnley - Sun 12th Mar - 16:00
« Reply #123 on: March 9, 2017, 10:10:21 AM »
I be tempted to start Origi (drop Can) for this one so we can have an additional option on set pieces (attacking n defending). We should have plenty of the ball so like to see a little extra in attack. 
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Offline slaphead

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Re: Pre Match Thread - Liverpool vs. Burnley - Sun 12th Mar - 16:00
« Reply #124 on: March 9, 2017, 10:42:17 AM »
Morenos a better attacking left full back than Milner agaisnt poor teams

Is he ?  I haven't seen that myself. He may look like he is with his pace, but his final ball and end product has been really poor any time I've seen him.
Can't for the life of me understand why people seem to think Moreno would be a better option that Milner.
Play your strongest team. I know if I was a Burnley player or fan, I'd be delighted if Moreno was starting.
Seems a decent lad and puts the graft in, but his positional awareness is just not good enough

Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: Pre Match Thread - Liverpool vs. Burnley - Sun 12th Mar - 16:00
« Reply #125 on: March 9, 2017, 10:45:25 AM »
Is he ?  I haven't seen that myself. He may look like he is with his pace, but his final ball and end product has been really poor any time I've seen him.
Can't for the life of me understand why people seem to think Moreno would be a better option that Milner.
Play your strongest team. I know if I was a Burnley player or fan, I'd be delighted if Moreno was starting.
Seems a decent lad and puts the graft in, but his positional awareness is just not good enough
I agree, he looks like an attacking full-back but in reality he isn't very good in the opposition third. When he does get in good positions he tends to whack the ball as hard as he can into the six yard box and hope for the best.
"And there are red and white scarves of Liverpool, and red and white bobble hats of Liverpool, and red and white rosettes of Liverpool, and nothing else. And the sun shines now."

Offline Zimagic

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Re: Pre Match Thread - Liverpool vs. Burnley - Sun 12th Mar - 16:00
« Reply #126 on: March 9, 2017, 10:57:54 AM »
I'd be tempted to play the exact same team as V Arsenal with Can dropping deeper to make essentially a back 3 and give Clyne & Millner licence to go forward. In my dreams it's TAA in RB and Clyne giving Millner a break.

Anyway, it's not what any of us thinks or wishes, Klopp will not change anything major, likely only Lovren in for Klavan. When has he ever changed formation or personnel except for injuries, back-from-injury upgrades or cup games?
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Offline Klippity Klopp

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Re: Pre Match Thread - Liverpool vs. Burnley - Sun 12th Mar - 16:00
« Reply #127 on: March 9, 2017, 10:58:15 AM »
Morenos a better attacking left full back than Milner agaisnt poor teams

Nah.

Moreno might have a natural left foot - but his crossing is poor.

He's more likely to mess up defensively, which creates more problems.

His passing isn't as good as Milner.

Milner is better than Moreno both defensively and attacking-wise.

Milner will start and rightly so.

Offline Weytske

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Re: Pre Match Thread - Liverpool vs. Burnley - Sun 12th Mar - 16:00
« Reply #128 on: March 9, 2017, 11:00:56 AM »
I be tempted to start Origi (drop Can) for this one so we can have an additional option on set pieces (attacking n defending). We should have plenty of the ball so like to see a little extra in attack.
I think Origi and Can are about the same size, no? And I wouldn't neccessarily say either of them is better aerialy.

Offline Kelvinlfc

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Re: Pre Match Thread - Liverpool vs. Burnley - Sun 12th Mar - 16:00
« Reply #129 on: March 9, 2017, 11:13:29 AM »
If we get turned over again after beating a top 6 side I'll lose my shit

Offline didi

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Re: Pre Match Thread - Liverpool vs. Burnley - Sun 12th Mar - 16:00
« Reply #130 on: March 9, 2017, 11:15:06 AM »
imagine how ye feel if we got a 90th minute penalty to win the game and Milner is sat on the bench

Offline ggcc14

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Re: Pre Match Thread - Liverpool vs. Burnley - Sun 12th Mar - 16:00
« Reply #131 on: March 9, 2017, 11:35:27 AM »
imagine how ye feel if we got a 90th minute penalty to win the game and Milner is sat on the bench
happy, Coutinho takes a good pen.
Slightly painful seeing the decline of Messi, but its been gradually happening for a while now
Messi is in decline, even barca have noticed that

Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: Pre Match Thread - Liverpool vs. Burnley - Sun 12th Mar - 16:00
« Reply #132 on: March 9, 2017, 11:35:56 AM »
happy, Coutinho takes a good pen.
Nah.
"And there are red and white scarves of Liverpool, and red and white bobble hats of Liverpool, and red and white rosettes of Liverpool, and nothing else. And the sun shines now."

Offline Anfield89

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Re: Pre Match Thread - Liverpool vs. Burnley - Sun 12th Mar - 16:00
« Reply #133 on: March 9, 2017, 11:58:28 AM »
happy, Coutinho takes a good pen.

Ha, since when.

Offline ggcc14

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Re: Pre Match Thread - Liverpool vs. Burnley - Sun 12th Mar - 16:00
« Reply #134 on: March 9, 2017, 12:31:09 PM »
Nah.
Well he does, i've seen him take two important pens for Brazil and scored both. So Yah.

Rough one vs City though, still be happy we got a penalty in the 90th even if Mignolet was taking it.
Slightly painful seeing the decline of Messi, but its been gradually happening for a while now
Messi is in decline, even barca have noticed that

Offline kavah

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Re: Pre Match Thread - Liverpool vs. Burnley - Sun 12th Mar - 16:00
« Reply #135 on: March 9, 2017, 12:39:31 PM »

A One, Two, Three, Four, Five Man Team
Whilst the lack of depth in the side it a moot point, time and again certain player absences have been pointed too as the absolute reason for our dip in form. ...

I'd argue that what happened immediately following those injuries is the key to our recent drop in form. It was not an isolated cause but rather the culmination of three factors.

1. A squad tired from covering key injured personnel, adapting to changing personnel.
2. The reintroduction of those key injured personnel too early, both to try and arrest a dip in form and to prepare for Mane's departure to the ACON.
3. Mane's departure to the ACON.


I think with the above analysis you've hit the nail on the head for our mediocre middle 13 league games and failure in the cups

Filler in his prematch mentioned our season being split into three parts. Part I, sensational, Part II, shite and Part III is unfolding.


Come in. Sit down. Shut up. ...





Part I 9/13 league wins
Part II 5/13 league wins (and knocked out the cups)
Part III  So far so good - 1 out of 1

We are always going to have periods in the season when we have key players out, especially the front 4, injured or knackered from too many games (there is an international break coming up before the Derby on April 1st). Particularly having two of those four that have to travel to South America.

I'd argue we never recovered from Lallana getting injured for England and the Brazilians coming back knackered from SA, and then Coutinho got injured and then Mané went to ACON.

What's the solution? More good players I guess. And for the rest of the season, like you suggest, bring in Origi and others when the opportunity arises. Obviously if that does happen and we don't win we'll all be fuming because we changed a winning team :D


and from wiki, a bit of Burnley - Liverpool - bonhomie:

Boff Whalley, recorded a song called Stud Marks on the Summits, which was inspired by a chance meeting with Bill Smith [Liverpudlian-fell running pioneer]. Whalley took up fell running as a result.




http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/bill-smith-lonely-death-of-a-modest-giant-of-fell-running-2366786.html

Offline JackWard33

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Re: Pre Match Thread - Liverpool vs. Burnley - Sun 12th Mar - 16:00
« Reply #136 on: March 9, 2017, 12:39:39 PM »
I agree, he looks like an attacking full-back but in reality he isn't very good in the opposition third. When he does get in good positions he tends to whack the ball as hard as he can into the six yard box and hope for the best.

That's a mis characterisation. Go and check out his underlying numbers for last year. His production from full back is as good as anyone. (this year not so much he's played so little and sporadically) He's not aesthetically pleasing but he is effective

Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: Pre Match Thread - Liverpool vs. Burnley - Sun 12th Mar - 16:00
« Reply #137 on: March 9, 2017, 12:44:35 PM »
That's a mis characterisation. Go and check out his underlying numbers for last year. His production from full back is as good as anyone. (this year not so much he's played so little and sporadically) He's not aesthetically pleasing but he is effective
Funny how you criticise when someone else posts stats about fullbacks but all of a sudden we've got to look at Moreno's underlying numbers to prove he's an attacking full-back........

He's almost as bad going forward as he is in defence, he's a liability against any team whether they're top of the league in the Championship. 
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Offline JackWard33

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Re: Pre Match Thread - Liverpool vs. Burnley - Sun 12th Mar - 16:00
« Reply #138 on: March 9, 2017, 12:50:56 PM »
Funny how you criticise when someone else posts stats about fullbacks but all of a sudden we've got to look at Moreno's underlying numbers to prove he's an attacking full-back........

He's almost as bad going forward as he is in defence, he's a liability against any team whether they're top of the league in the Championship. 

Yeah I mean this is clearly too one eyed to discuss. You've got your opinion of him and it isn't going to change so...

The fact is we have had a problem at full back playing this system against teams that drop deep - especially over the last two months.
Given that we have our first choice front 4 fit and firing that will solve a lot of our attacking problems (our attack is basically stellar with those players on the pitch) - however what teams have been doing lately is defending narrow, filling the box and letting our full backs have the ball.
There's a saying in basket ball 'if you're wide open its often for a reason' as in... no one believes you're going to do anything. Teams are leaving Milner and especially Clyne in tons of space because they struggle to utilise it.
I don't think we'll change starting personnel for a second - Klopp doesn't seem to do that - but if we're getting frustrated and our full backs have slipped into the 'loft it into the box repeatedly for no one' routine we should change it quickly. 

Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: Pre Match Thread - Liverpool vs. Burnley - Sun 12th Mar - 16:00
« Reply #139 on: March 9, 2017, 01:01:25 PM »
Teams are leaving Milner and especially Clyne in tons of space because they struggle to utilise it.
No, they're leaving them unmarked because we've got no-one up front who can hurt them if we do cross it into the box. Firmino, Coutinho and Mane (slightly less) are poor in the air and none of them are looking to get onto the end of crosses. Put someone more clinical up front who feeds on crosses and they'd think twice about letting us cross the ball into the box.

No-ones going to mark Moreno either, cos he's worse than the other two for delivering a ball into the box.
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Offline JackWard33

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Re: Pre Match Thread - Liverpool vs. Burnley - Sun 12th Mar - 16:00
« Reply #140 on: March 9, 2017, 01:06:54 PM »
No, they're leaving them unmarked because we've got no-one up front who can hurt them if we do cross it into the box. Firmino, Coutinho and Mane (slightly less) are poor in the air and none of them are looking to get onto the end of crosses. Put someone more clinical up front who feeds on crosses and they'd think twice about letting us cross the ball into the box.


I honestly don't know what you're talking about. We don't set up to cross the ball at all - when we do it's fruitless because we don't have a single player in our squad who wants lofted crosses into the box... not one.
Our full backs shouldn't be lofting the ball into the box from deep should they?
I'm not sure if you're advocating for changing how we play? If so it'll have to wait til summer because we don't have the personnel ... I mean it's not going to happen - I'm just not sure why you're posting this in the Burnley thread because I can't see how it's relevant?

Offline 007.lankyguy

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Re: Pre Match Thread - Liverpool vs. Burnley - Sun 12th Mar - 16:00
« Reply #141 on: March 9, 2017, 01:11:04 PM »
Moreno is generally not efficient enough in the final third to justify his defensive issues. I don't think there's any problem in saying that.

However, he has much better recovery pace than Milner, is just as good at basic defensive tasks (Milner's main defensive attribute over Moreno is that he doesn't have as many brain farts), is better at defending down the line off his back foot and his crossing is not any worse than what Milner's been coming up with this season, especially given he has the option of crossing whilst on the run, which Milner doesn't have from the left (the latter's constant need to shift onto his right foot allows the opposition to set themselves).

If Klopp can actually get Moreno to stay wide, I'd risk him. I don't think he will though.
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Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: Pre Match Thread - Liverpool vs. Burnley - Sun 12th Mar - 16:00
« Reply #142 on: March 9, 2017, 01:12:34 PM »
I honestly don't know what you're talking about. We don't set up to cross the ball at all - when we do it's fruitless because we don't have a single player in our squad who wants lofted crosses into the box... not one.
Our full backs shouldn't be lofting the ball into the box from deep should they?
I'm not sure if you're advocating for changing how we play? If so it'll have to wait til summer because we don't have the personnel ... I mean it's not going to happen - I'm just not sure why you're posting this in the Burnley thread because I can't see how it's relevant?
It's pretty simple, you're saying the reason why our full-backs are being left unmarked is because they don't use the space, but it's because they opposition are happy to let us cross it into the box because we can't hurt them.

Fuck knows what you're expecting Moreno to do given that time and space.
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Offline JackWard33

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Re: Pre Match Thread - Liverpool vs. Burnley - Sun 12th Mar - 16:00
« Reply #143 on: March 9, 2017, 01:19:54 PM »
Moreno is generally not efficient enough in the final third to justify his defensive issues. I don't think there's any problem in saying that.

However, he has much better recovery pace than Milner, is just as good at basic defensive tasks (Milner's main defensive attribute over Moreno is that he doesn't have as many brain farts), is better at defending down the line off his back foot and his crossing is not any worse than what Milner's been coming up with this season, especially given he has the option of crossing whilst on the run, which Milner doesn't have from the left (the latter's constant need to shift onto his right foot allows the opposition to set themselves).

If Klopp can actually get Moreno to stay wide, I'd risk him. I don't think he will though.

I agree with all of this including the first bit and the last bit

Offline JackWard33

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Re: Pre Match Thread - Liverpool vs. Burnley - Sun 12th Mar - 16:00
« Reply #144 on: March 9, 2017, 01:20:12 PM »
It's pretty simple, you're saying the reason why our full-backs are being left unmarked is because they don't use the space, but it's because they opposition are happy to let us cross it into the box because we can't hurt them.


Oh fine I agree with this

Offline redk84

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Re: Pre Match Thread - Liverpool vs. Burnley - Sun 12th Mar - 16:00
« Reply #145 on: March 9, 2017, 01:21:04 PM »
Moreno is generally not efficient enough in the final third to justify his defensive issues. I don't think there's any problem in saying that.

However, he has much better recovery pace than Milner, is just as good at basic defensive tasks (Milner's main defensive attribute over Moreno is that he doesn't have as many brain farts), is better at defending down the line off his back foot and his crossing is not any worse than what Milner's been coming up with this season, especially given he has the option of crossing whilst on the run, which Milner doesn't have from the left (the latter's constant need to shift onto his right foot allows the opposition to set themselves).

If Klopp can actually get Moreno to stay wide, I'd risk him. I don't think he will though.

My thoughts on this too

But maybe an option with half hour or so to go if its still 0-0 also.......coinciding with Origi being brought on for whoever is being least effective out the front line
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Online Zoomers

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Re: Pre Match Thread - Liverpool vs. Burnley - Sun 12th Mar - 16:00
« Reply #146 on: March 9, 2017, 03:41:47 PM »
These Sunday games can fuck right off. I thought being out of Europe meant we'd play most of our games on Saturday.
Shut the fuck up and put some respek on Lucas name playboy

Offline Alonso_The_Assassin

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Re: Pre Match Thread - Liverpool vs. Burnley - Sun 12th Mar - 16:00
« Reply #147 on: March 9, 2017, 04:42:16 PM »
No way does Moreno start on Sunday. I think it's pretty clear that Kloppo doesn't trust him.

Same team as Arsenal I reckon. Perhaps Origi coming in for Can, but that would be surprising.

Offline UntouchableLuis

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Re: Pre Match Thread - Liverpool vs. Burnley - Sun 12th Mar - 16:00
« Reply #148 on: March 9, 2017, 05:07:05 PM »
These Sunday games can fuck right off. I thought being out of Europe meant we'd play most of our games on Saturday.

At least we still play before all our rivals ;)
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Offline Upinsmoke

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Re: Pre Match Thread - Liverpool vs. Burnley - Sun 12th Mar - 16:00
« Reply #149 on: March 9, 2017, 05:07:08 PM »
No way does Moreno start on Sunday. I think it's pretty clear that Kloppo doesn't trust him.

Same team as Arsenal I reckon. Perhaps Origi coming in for Can, but that would be surprising.

It's pretty clear Klopp doesn't trust half the team, which is why we are where we are.

Offline Pistolero

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Re: Pre Match Thread - Liverpool vs. Burnley - Sun 12th Mar - 16:00
« Reply #150 on: March 9, 2017, 05:20:55 PM »
The importance of this game can't be overstated...could actually define the rest of our season.....Burnley....who knew?....
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Offline ac

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Re: Pre Match Thread - Liverpool vs. Burnley - Sun 12th Mar - 16:00
« Reply #151 on: March 9, 2017, 05:35:42 PM »
Moreno is generally not efficient enough in the final third to justify his defensive issues. I don't think there's any problem in saying that.

However, he has much better recovery pace than Milner, is just as good at basic defensive tasks (Milner's main defensive attribute over Moreno is that he doesn't have as many brain farts), is better at defending down the line off his back foot and his crossing is not any worse than what Milner's been coming up with this season, especially given he has the option of crossing whilst on the run, which Milner doesn't have from the left (the latter's constant need to shift onto his right foot allows the opposition to set themselves).

If Klopp can actually get Moreno to stay wide, I'd risk him. I don't think he will though.

Basic defending involves tackling which Milner is much better at. Moreno's idea of tackling is doing karate kick style lunges in our penalty box. Moreno is also far worse on the ball - his default setting is turn back and pass it sideways/backwards thereby negating much of the advantages of having a left footer at left back.

Offline JustDan

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Re: Pre Match Thread - Liverpool vs. Burnley - Sun 12th Mar - 16:00
« Reply #152 on: March 9, 2017, 05:40:14 PM »
Definition of insanity & all that, but I believe! Everything points to us losing yet again against a lesser team after swiping yet another 'top' team aside with ease, but that has to end at some point..
... surely :-\

Offline 007.lankyguy

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Re: Pre Match Thread - Liverpool vs. Burnley - Sun 12th Mar - 16:00
« Reply #153 on: March 9, 2017, 06:39:00 PM »
Basic defending involves tackling which Milner is much better at. Moreno's idea of tackling is doing karate kick style lunges in our penalty box. Moreno is also far worse on the ball - his default setting is turn back and pass it sideways/backwards thereby negating much of the advantages of having a left footer at left back.
Milner's default setting is to turn onto his right foot and cross it inaccurately into the box when the opponent's defence is set.

One of those 'defaults' means the team retains possession, the other means they lose it.
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Offline Giono

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Re: Pre Match Thread - Liverpool vs. Burnley - Sun 12th Mar - 16:00
« Reply #154 on: March 9, 2017, 06:46:56 PM »
No way does Moreno start on Sunday. I think it's pretty clear that Kloppo doesn't trust him.

Same team as Arsenal I reckon. Perhaps Origi coming in for Can, but that would be surprising.

He trusted him enough to start at left full back in the 1st match of the season after a full pre-season of watching him train. he took him out of the firing line. Klopp's original thinking was to have Moreno on the left. It is not fanciful to think hew may play again occasionally.
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Offline Alonso_The_Assassin

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Re: Pre Match Thread - Liverpool vs. Burnley - Sun 12th Mar - 16:00
« Reply #155 on: March 9, 2017, 07:50:31 PM »
He trusted him enough to start at left full back in the 1st match of the season after a full pre-season of watching him train. he took him out of the firing line. Klopp's original thinking was to have Moreno on the left. It is not fanciful to think hew may play again occasionally.

Well, given Milner was injured for the game and started against Barcelona the week before, I'm pretty sure it was a forced change on Klopp's part.

In any case, Moreno has his uses, however I'm far more comfortable with Milner on the left. I think we need to keep the back four as stable as possible (whether it be Lovren or Klavan to partner Matip). For us to get into the top four this will just be as vital as scoring freely at the other end.

Offline Anfield89

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Re: Pre Match Thread - Liverpool vs. Burnley - Sun 12th Mar - 16:00
« Reply #156 on: March 9, 2017, 08:25:53 PM »
He trusted him enough to start at left full back in the 1st match of the season after a full pre-season of watching him train. he took him out of the firing line. Klopp's original thinking was to have Moreno on the left. It is not fanciful to think hew may play again occasionally.

He didn't, he tried Milner left back in preseaeson and it was buzzing around all the journos that it was his plan to start him there against Arsenal until he got injured.

Offline ggcc14

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Re: Pre Match Thread - Liverpool vs. Burnley - Sun 12th Mar - 16:00
« Reply #157 on: March 9, 2017, 08:34:58 PM »
Such a shame we had an incredible left back at our disposal and let him slip through our grasp

https://vimeo.com/92846254
Slightly painful seeing the decline of Messi, but its been gradually happening for a while now
Messi is in decline, even barca have noticed that

Offline bird_lfc

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Re: Pre Match Thread - Liverpool vs. Burnley - Sun 12th Mar - 16:00
« Reply #158 on: March 9, 2017, 08:41:05 PM »
My dislike for Sean dyche is growing and I feel we are due a good result against one of the 'lesser' opponents in the league.

3-0 Liverpool

Offline Garnier

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Re: Pre Match Thread - Liverpool vs. Burnley - Sun 12th Mar - 16:00
« Reply #159 on: March 9, 2017, 09:23:22 PM »
Such a shame we had an incredible left back at our disposal and let him slip through our grasp

https://vimeo.com/92846254

We lost only 2 league games where he started. It surely can't be down to luck.

"Puskas: All the years" still gets me everytime i watch, though.
« Last Edit: March 9, 2017, 09:29:36 PM by Garnier »
"Anelka knew that Van der Sar knew that Anelka knew that Van der Sar tended to dive right against right-footers."

"It's not a perfect model but i'd rather watch Boufal turn people inside out whilst learning his trade with us, than watch Chris Brunt or Ryan Shawcross dry hump people in the penalty area for 90 minutes. "