Topic: The Nathaniel Clyne Experience

[harryc]

Gets the ball so much in the attacking third as the opposition don't bother marking him..  Knowing he will do nothing with it.  Time and time again he either slows down the play, gives the ball away or hits the first man.
He is not good enough for how we want to play and needs dropping.

For who exactly?

[Caston]

For who exactly?

Trent

[harryc]

Trent

Really and what has he shown?

[Caston]

Really and what has he shown?

He has an end product.

[Giono]

Gets the ball so much in the attacking third as the opposition don't bother marking him..  Knowing he will do nothing with it.  Time and time again he either slows down the play, gives the ball away or hits the first man.
He is not good enough for how we want to play and needs dropping.

Exactly. Opposing managers know our wingbacks will be high up the pitch and they don't feel the need to address that offensive 'threat' in their own tactics. They just crowd the real danger men in the centre and plan to exploit the space our fullbacks have left behind them on the counter. We get all the negative and none of the positive from our advanced wingbacks.

Check Fat Sam's comments post-match. He basically says that what he planned to do.

[joekim87]

Trent is a tall lad as well. I think he'll replace Clyne in 2018 or at the latest 2019. We won't buy a player in the rightback position.

[jillcwhomever]

Really and what has he shown?

Brilliant crosses for one thing. Real burning pace which is something lacking in this team at the moment. He has excellent ability and he will be a threat for Clynne next season.

[leivapool]

Brilliant crosses for one thing. Real burning pace which is something lacking in this team at the moment. He has excellent ability and he will be a threat for Clynne next season.

Not for me he won't,  I think Clyne has been one of our most consistant players this season.  He's quixk,  never injured and defensively very sound.  Not the best end product,  but I'm not sure that is as important as you think when we have a team stacked full of creative types.  No-one was bemoaning Clyne's lack of end product when Mane was in front of him were they? 

Trent has a lot of defensive issues to sort out before he challenges Clyne.  Leave the lad develop and grow,  and see where he's at a few years down the line

[LallanaInPyjamas]

Not for me he won't,  I think Clyne has been one of our most consistant players this season.  He's quixk,  never injured and defensively very sound.  Not the best end product,  but I'm not sure that is as important as you think when we have a team stacked full of creative types.  No-one was bemoaning Clyne's lack of end product when Mane was in front of him were they? 

Trent has a lot of defensive issues to sort out before he challenges Clyne.  Leave the lad develop and grow,  and see where he's at a few years down the line

This is the thing. Clyne is fine with a proper wide player ahead of him because he's best when he can overlap a team-mate; not when he's the only wide outlet! He's consistently looked awful going forward when we've used a more narrow player like Firmino or Lallana there because it leaves him isolated in possession, and he doesn't have the confidence or ability to consistently take players on the outside, which in turn condenses our play further.

This is yet another example of where not signing another wide player last summer or in January has hurt us.

Providing we do so this summer, I don't see Clyne as a major issue, though he does undoubtedly need to improve. I think he's got it in him to do so but you can tell he's nervous at the moment. Klopp is not helping him whatsoever.

[jepovic]

Brilliant crosses for one thing. Real burning pace which is something lacking in this team at the moment. He has excellent ability and he will be a threat for Clynne next season.

Clyne is one of the fastest players in the whole league.
And has it ever occured to you that Klopp might not want a lot of crosses from the full backs? Klopp is not Mourinho/Moyes, and we don't have Benteke-type strikers.

[jillcwhomever]

Clyne is one of the fastest players in the whole league.
And has it ever occured to you that Klopp might not want a lot of crosses from the full backs? Klopp is not Mourinho/Moyes, and we don't have Benteke-type strikers.

Are you kidding, we use crosses a lot in games, its just they don't tend to go in the areas we need them too. What we currently have is players with inconsistent accuracy. I just don't think he offers enough going forward Clynne. I'm not writing him off entirely, but we need more options. Klopp has always played with full backs using crossing with Dortmund, and I would expect him to do it here as well. He just needs the players.

[jillcwhomever]

Not for me he won't,  I think Clyne has been one of our most consistant players this season.  He's quixk,  never injured and defensively very sound.  Not the best end product,  but I'm not sure that is as important as you think when we have a team stacked full of creative types.  No-one was bemoaning Clyne's lack of end product when Mane was in front of him were they? 

Trent has a lot of defensive issues to sort out before he challenges Clyne.  Leave the lad develop and grow,  and see where he's at a few years down the line

I'm not saying Trent will be in from the first game, but he will feature a lot more, his crossing is extremely impressive already. In all the games where he came on, it obvious he has been told to use his crosses, and they are usually accurate. I would agree he needs more work defensively at the moment, but a lot of that will only come with experience. He is the most advanced of all the youngsters, and Klopp will be prepared to use him, as he has already shown.

[Redman78]

Brilliant crosses for one thing. Real burning pace which is something lacking in this team at the moment. He has excellent ability and he will be a threat for Clynne next season.

He can be a threat, however people need to be a little realistic.  The manager has said himself that Trent needs to improve defensively, I'm sure Clyne could too, but he is much more advanced defensively at this stage.  People keep complaining about the defence but then are wanting to drop one of the better defenders..

[Giono]

Not for me he won't,  I think Clyne has been one of our most consistant players this season.  He's quixk,  never injured and defensively very sound.  Not the best end product,  but I'm not sure that is as important as you think when we have a team stacked full of creative types.  No-one was bemoaning Clyne's lack of end product when Mane was in front of him were they? 

Trent has a lot of defensive issues to sort out before he challenges Clyne.  Leave the lad develop and grow,  and see where he's at a few years down the line

Agree about TAA. He is a great prospect, but we should not overly rely on him too early.

But as for your point about Clyne's offensive inadequacies not being a problem early in the season with Mane in front of him: he wasn't playing any better, it just wasn't so noticeable. I don't remember his offensive contribution being any better early in the season with Mane and Lallana sharing the load down the right.

His lack of offensive ability to cross to an actual person rather than empty space or to show some guile, aggression or vision in the opponent's third...certainly was evident when lower ranked teams started to give him lots of space and time on purpose as part of their defensive tactics.


Clyne is not a huge problem that must be fixed this summer. But the way Klopp likes his wingbacks to play does not play to his strengths, so I can see him being replaced sooner or later.

[Working Class Hen-Pecked Hero]

His play is so predictable, he can not beat a defender, or we will never know as he doesn't even try. Between him and Milner (who sort of has an excuse as he's a CM playing LB) there is no threat. Clyne will get forward, shit himself then play the ball backwards, jog back. If we get top 4 there's got to be a better solution, Trippier looks the better player and doesn't even start regularly

[keano7]

Back to his solid 7/10 best tonight.

[Anfield89]

Much better tonight had a go at the full back played some very good balls in behind

[newterp]

Can't beat a man even with that pace - but was good overall

[acks]

Can't beat a man even with that pace - but was good overall

Its because he keeps checking his runs and then tries to beat his oponent from a standing start, which is bloody difficult.

[only6times]

Patsy or Calvin. Now known as Deke.

[Severely]

Still think Clyne is the least of our problems, if he is one at all. One player I don't see the need for upgrading. People bemoan his attacking shortcomings but I'm sure the same people wouldn't want to see Moreno come into the side just because he can beat a man and put in a cross. Clyne defends sensibly and when he has Mane ahead of him again, no one's going to care if he beats his man or not because it wont matter.

Also, from memory, Klopp's Dortmund sides had crossing full backs, sure, but he always chose consistency and workmanship over attacking flair from his full backs, right?

[clinical]

Its because he keeps checking his runs and then tries to beat his oponent from a standing start, which is bloody difficult.

It's frustrating because he has the ability to do it.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

It's frustrating because he has the ability to do it.

He does occasionally but at Southampton he was always at his best when overlapping and arriving onto a moving ball. We've never really utilised that to full effect.

[wemmick]

Clyne needs a good, long rest this summer. The man has run himself into the ground mentally and physically. There is no way he hasn't been carrying knocks and minor injuries all season. He needs someone to share the load next season, but we would be nuts to sell him.

[clinical]

He does occasionally but at Southampton he was always at his best when overlapping and arriving onto a moving ball. We've never really utilised that to full effect.

Very true. I guess because usually our forwards push right up rather than allowing the overlap all the time?

[LallanaInPyjamas]

Very true. I guess because usually our forwards push right up rather than allowing the overlap all the time?

Maybe although our wide players are pretty narrow a lot of the time. I suppose we tend to have less space in behind than Southampton would have had.

They also had Tadic playing off the right who, like Coutinho on the other side (more so when he plays/played with Moreno), is a master at cutting in & slipping those through balls in between left centre back and left back.

[vicar]

I wonder if its confidence?

He is frustrating in that when forward he often turns back, but more recently he looks like he has tried to go on the outside of players, perhaps encouraged to do so. I thought he tried a couple of time last night. However it seems like a last minute decision. So he has faced up the player but rather than go past and use his pace starting from distance, he seems to pause and loses any advantage. I think a more confident player would do it all in one motion on the move.

I think he is a really good dependable defender, but if we could get a little more from him getting to the line and cutting back it would open up so many more opportunities, not least from the crosses but also other teams worrying about him more.

[El Lobo]

I don't think we necessarily need to get rid, or upgrade or whatever. But I do think when we haven't got Mane on the right, or another winger, that we'd potentially be better off at least having one of TAA or Moreno in the side purely for a bit of pace or crossing ability/balance.

[SerbianScouser]

I love the guy but on the evidence of this two seasons for me he simply has no business being in the final third. It's a chore watching him trying to conjure something up as he's a pure defensive fullback - an Arbeloa. That's why we'll never achieve full balance as long as we're asking him to do something he simply doesn't have skill-set necessary to execute what is asked of him. It's even more galling when you see how often teams allow him tons of space so they could overload on another side as they don't fear what Clyne might do with the ball.

[Chalky Boots]

He's actually quite good though at crossing from around the byline, the problem this season has been he's shown little to no motivation to run beyond and work one-two's like he did last year. It's all to feet, it's all cut inside and it's all very negative. Milner is just as bad (if not worse) for not bloody well using his left foot.

Finnan and moreso arbeloa were defensive but both would still offer consistent overlaps, even if the latter wasn't great at them, neither fullback does this for us right now and it makes our attacks incredibly laboured.

You wouldn't get rid though, that's daft as he's still a very good footballer but how long he stays in the team is basically all on how quickly Trent stamps his authority on things in the summer I think.

[Byrneand]

Similar to my comment in the Georginio Wijnaldum thread.

Clyne is grand. Give TAA another year to mature, will definitely get games next year (would suspect all Carling and FA Cup at the very least) and then make a call on what we want to do for 18/19.

I put sorting out CB, LB, wing(s) and a number 9 (and maybe GK) all ahead of sorting out right backs. Clyne is v.good and then TAA is a prospect.

[Haggis36]

The most painful aspect to me is that it seems his sole attacking move is to twat it vaguely in the direction of the goal regardless of the position of his teammates (or whether anyone is actually in the box in the first place). It's just so braindead and lazy. Players like Walker take a lot of shit for being nothing but speed merchants/athletes but more often than not they actually have the ability to find a man in the box, and Clyne in comparison seems genuinely incapable a lot of the time. His technique is fine (if unspectacular) - is it an intelligence thing?

Something definitely has to give with him and Milner. I know people think they are the least of our problems but I'm not sure I agree - they are a problem for us when it comes to taking on sides looking to sit deep and frustrate. We don't need them to be skinning players for fun and racking up assists, but they need to be more threatening on the ball because right now they are predictable to the point of uselessness in attack, and they are all too often absent in defence. The opposition gameplan can afford to mostly ignore them, meaning they can double up and crowd out our better players who play more centrally, who then have zero room or space to create anything. It's a knock on effect that detracts from the overall team.

I'm not saying he's not a good player, and I'd 100% keep him in the squad - he's the type of steady, reliable player you need around to win things. But I think we need significantly more in both FB positions if we genuinely want to break this annoying habit of looking horribly blunt against the shit teams. It's not the only factor, but it is a decent sized one.

[RedForeverTT]

Has regressed quite horribly. I am saying this as one of his biggest fan.

I remember seeing him play for Southampton and I said to myself he was like a young Maldini playing on the right. There is no way past him because he was so quick in cutting out crosses. However, what I saw from yesterday was Watford players having no problems beating him or putting in crosses from the right as he wasn't getting tight on their wingers.

Maybe its a bit of fatigue creeping into his game as I don't recall him not playing in any of our league games. Hope Klopp could rotate him and TAA.

[UNO]

He has been one of the worst players to watch this year. He made about 2 good crosses whole year! Never get pass his marker, never gets to the byline. On the defensive side, how many times he lost a running player or position himself horribly? He also let in too much crosses. Watch the last Watford chance again, where was he? I hope Klopp will consider a new first team right back to replace him. He never gets injured though!

[deFacto please, you bastards]

He's been massively underwhelming going forward this year, and so-so at the back. I don't think he should be sold, but if there is a right fullback available, better than him, than we should buy him and keep Clyne as backup.

[Smudge]

He has definitely De-CLYNED!

When was the last time he beat a man going forward?

[bobadicious]

Clyne gets so much space but does very little with it. Would like to see what Milner at RB and Moreno at LB looks like. Morenos pace would be an asset if given the amount of space Clyne gets and Milner would be on his favored foot so no more checking back if he sees a crossing opportunity.

[clinical]

TAA and Clyne whoever is first choice now and in future doesn't matter. RB is not an issue for the foreseeable

Clyne gets so much space but does very little with it. Would like to see what Milner at RB and Moreno at LB looks like. Morenos pace would be an asset if given the amount of space Clyne gets and Milner would be on his favored foot so no more checking back if he sees a crossing opportunity.

Moreno is done.

[Gifted Right Foot]

He's fine.  He's played 90 club games in 2 seasons.  Hopefully Trent steps it up a level next season and can give Clyne a few rests. 

He's also had to deal with constant team changes due to injuries, fatigue, plus our system and the way teams have approached us has been a huge strain on our fullbacks.  I think they've done pretty damn well considering. 

[WhingingMoaningUpstart]

Are you kidding, we use crosses a lot in games, its just they don't tend to go in the areas we need them too. What we currently have is players with inconsistent accuracy. I just don't think he offers enough going forward Clynne. I'm not writing him off entirely, but we need more options. Klopp has always played with full backs using crossing with Dortmund, and I would expect him to do it here as well. He just needs the players.

Yeah, considering our lack of wide men, we sure send in a lot of crosses. We're fifth, just ahead of City. Chelsea and Arsenal are 16th and 17th respectively.

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/clubs/total_cross