Topic: Bundesliga Thread

[Dim Glas]

Yeah, Dahoud isn't actually the style of midfielder we are desperate for now.

Perfect for BVB though, that's one of their (not so many really) problems solved already.

[SwordInYourGut]

Fsg out!

Gini has come in and done very well and Hendersons form has been very good. if we get a midfielder I would prefer it to be Keita or a power house similar to Keita in playing style.

Is there another player in the world like Keita? The guy is amazing, he can do everything. 

[Yiannis]

What happened to Mor? Don't think he has played a lot this season, has he? He was always gonna be a project though I guess and slowly incorporate him in the first team going forward.

[Dim Glas]

What happened to Mor? Don't think he has played a lot this season, has he? He was always gonna be a project though I guess and slowly incorporate him in the first team going forward.

yeah, BVB are a bit overloaded there (nice problem), and so he's had the likes of Dembele, Reus, Pulasic, Auba, Schurrle all in those attacking or wing positions ahead of him.  Plus he had a couple little injury niggle, and a suspension early in the season. HE did play for Turkey a bit as a sub in their last game, looked really good too.

Although he's another player yapping about wanting to play for Real Madrid  already  What is it with these Dortmund players, him and Auba and Real, Dembele and Barcelona. Shut up and play!

[kaiser franz]

So i reading that Dortmund signed Dahoud

[Gerry Attrick]

Yes, it's been confirmed Dahoud will be joining BVB. I don't rate him as highly as a lot of people seem to but he does play in a position that Dortmund have been lacking in. Good move for all parties I think.

[Dim Glas]

I think as often happens he got hyped up so much. Yet, reading comments eleswhere by Liverpool fans about him, I'm sure many hadn't seen him play, as they are describing a totally different player to what he is!  He isn't actually what we need right now.

He's a very good player though, and will become a cracking player for Dortmund. Next season, with their 'problem' areas alredy sorted, they will be, and quite frankly have to be competing for the very top.  Dortmund haven't splashed the cash like this in a long time.

[kaiser franz]

I think as often happens he got hyped up so much. Yet, reading comments eleswhere by Liverpool fans about him, I'm sure many hadn't seen him play, as they are describing a totally different player to what he is!  He isn't actually what we need right now.

He's a very good player though, and will become a cracking player for Dortmund. Next season, with their 'problem' areas alredy sorted, they will be, and quite frankly have to be competing for the very top.  Dortmund haven't splashed the cash like this in a long time.

They need to keep Aubemeyang but not sure that gonna be possible if Real comes for him,or even if City decide to splash obscene amount of cash for him

[Dim Glas]

They need to keep Aubemeyang but not sure that gonna be possible if Real comes for him,or even if City decide to splash obscene amount of cash for him

If Real don't make a move, I've a feeling he'll stay there. I may be well off the mark though, cos there is of course a chance that money will talk and he'll just take a huge pay rise and go to City!

But if he goes, they'll invest all that money straight back into the team. They've spent 140 mill euros in the last 2 windows, plus whatever Dahoud is costing, basically everything they got for Hummels, Mkhytarian and Gudogan and more on top. So I've no doubt they'll do the same in the summer. They will have a fantastic squad going into next season.

[Gerry Attrick]

Dortmund need a striker, even if Aubameyang stays.

[kaiser franz]

I really really like Reus but its terrible what injuries done to him,such a talented player

[pyroparty]

I think as often happens he got hyped up so much. Yet, reading comments eleswhere by Liverpool fans about him, I'm sure many hadn't seen him play, as they are describing a totally different player to what he is!  He isn't actually what we need right now.

He's a very good player though, and will become a cracking player for Dortmund. Next season, with their 'problem' areas alredy sorted, they will be, and quite frankly have to be competing for the very top.  Dortmund haven't splashed the cash like this in a long time.

Yep, I actually did a search on his name on here before he was linked with us and there was hardly a mention, think there was 2 people calling him a good talent, the other mentions were just when people listed Gladbachs team for games. We are linked and suddenly everyone knows him!

[Dim Glas]

I really really like Reus but its terrible what injuries done to him,such a talented player

It's a shame. And especially so as he is kinda 'Mr Dortmund' these days being a local boy and that! But he's missed so much with a wide selection of both bad and niggly injuries.

And yep, they do need a striker regardless. They have Auba and Isak as their two 'out and out' strikers, one of which is a kid, then Reus, who is crocked, and Emre Mor as well. So for sure they need another.

[ScouserAtHeart]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/mar/30/borussia-dortmund-mo-dahoud-youth-recruitment

Dahoud joining Dortmund

[killer-heels]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/mar/30/borussia-dortmund-mo-dahoud-youth-recruitment

Dahoud joining Dortmund

No idea how good he is but 10m seems cheap.

[Dim Glas]

he was going to run his contract down, he wasn't going to sign a new contract, and wanted to go to Dortmund, they held all the cards. 

[elsewhere]

Why didnt these dimwits send him to us if they were gonna sell him for only 10m a year later?

[Dim Glas]

shocking as this may sound, maybe he actually didn't want to play for Liverpool (IF they actually made an offer last summer) and wants to stay in Germany.

Did they even make an offer last year? I really don't remember. I just remember a lot of gossip in the press and forums, but nothing more than that!

 

[elsewhere]

shocking as this may sound, maybe he actually didn't want to play for Liverpool (IF they actually made an offer last summer) and wants to stay in Germany.

Did they even make an offer last year? I really don't remember. I just remember a lot of gossip in the press and forums, but nothing more than that!

 

That's the only thing i coild think of. Maybe he was comfortable in Germany and thought it's early to leave.
I've read many times we've made 20m+ offer but then again it could all be rumors. Out club never denied those rumors though unless I've missed.

[Bend It Like Aurelio]

Dortmund is the defacto club of choice for a lot of continental youngsters nowadays, ironically a contributing factor to that is our very own manager. I mentioned this before when they managed to sign Dembele and Mor in the summer. Imagine playing for a team used to playing exciting offensive football, in an 80,000 seat stadium, with European football year in year out. Then add on top of that the neon yellow strip that looks so fantastic, it makes our kit look outdated and garish by comparison.

All this matters, and when you consider that the Pound has dropped 20 or so percent against the Euro, we just aren't going to be competitive with the likes of Dortmund.

[kaiser franz]

Dortmund is the defacto club of choice for a lot of continental youngsters nowadays, ironically a contributing factor to that is our very own manager. I mentioned this before when they managed to sign Dembele and Mor in the summer. Imagine playing for a team used to playing exciting offensive football, in an 80,000 seat stadium, with European football year in year out. Then add on top of that the neon yellow strip that looks so fantastic, it makes our kit look outdated and garish by comparison.

All this matters, and when you consider that the Pound has dropped 20 or so percent against the Euro, we just aren't going to be competitive with the likes of Dortmund.

Oh you are competitive,famous club with loads of cash but you suck in transfer buisness same as Arsenal.Just no decisive enough,always so much talk about signing someone and then some other club comes nab it in second.

[killer-heels]

Dortmund is the defacto club of choice for a lot of continental youngsters nowadays, ironically a contributing factor to that is our very own manager. I mentioned this before when they managed to sign Dembele and Mor in the summer. Imagine playing for a team used to playing exciting offensive football, in an 80,000 seat stadium, with European football year in year out. Then add on top of that the neon yellow strip that looks so fantastic, it makes our kit look outdated and garish by comparison.

All this matters, and when you consider that the Pound has dropped 20 or so percent against the Euro, we just aren't going to be competitive with the likes of Dortmund.

I am sorry but if we are not going to be competitive with the likes of Dortmund then we might as well pack up now. We are way, way richer with far more revenue than Dortmund. We are a bigger club and not even the passionate of Dortmund fans would disagree with that. You cannot compare Liverpool football club with Borussia Dortmund.

Oh and red is the best colour kit. Always has been, always fucking will be.

[Dim Glas]

when it comes to younger players though, I can't blame them for a second going there, I think it's a more attractive proposition. Not just Dortmund, but to the Bundesliga in general for some. Being a richer club desn't make much difference for 17, 18, 19 year olds coming from France, or Sweden or other German teams, Liverpool aren't going to be paying them top wages anyway, and neither should they.  So it may well come down to what is better for their careers. And yep, Dortmund tick a lot of boxes there.

BILA is right, the irony is, much of the reason it is so attractive is partly because of what Juergen Klopp did for the club. You can bettcha life these kinds of talents wouldn't all have been rushing to sign for Dortmund of a decade ago.

But competing for established talents, yes, Liverpool have to be able to compete there, they can't be weak and slow in trying to get their targets this summer.

[killer-heels]

when it comes to younger players though, I can't blame them for a second going there, I think it's a more attractive proposition. Not just Dortmund, but to the Bundesliga in general for some. Being a richer club desn't make much difference for 17, 18, 19 year olds coming from France, or Sweden or other German teams, Liverpool aren't going to be paying them top wages anyway, and neither should they.  So it may well come down to what is better for their careers. And yep, Dortmund tick a lot of boxes there.

BILA is right, the irony is, much of the reason it is so attractive is partly because of what Juergen Klopp did for the club. You can bettcha life these kinds of talents wouldn't all have been rushing to sign for Dortmund of a decade ago.

But competing for established talents, yes, Liverpool have to be able to compete there, they can't be weak and slow in trying to get their targets this summer.

Sorry but this is rubbish. The only reason Dortmund have probably got these players is because they have most probably chased the player, showed him he is wanted, remained in contact and got to him first. Certainly if you see some testimonies of players that certainly makes that quite obvious.

The Premier League is one of the most attractive leagues in Europe and certainly far more revered around the world than the 1 team league of the Bundesliga. It must be really exciting knowing Bayern Munich will win all the time. These players all want to end up here in England eventually or with Real or Barcelona anyway.

We don't pay top wages? Our wages total over 200m. What is Dortmund's yearly wage bill? We pay our players absolutely top whack and if we wanted a player then we shouldn't be getting out done by Dortmund.

Most players move for money. Always have, always will. If we wanted a player badly then we can absolutely blow Dortmund out of the water. They are nowhere near the size of us.

[Dim Glas]

you need to read properly before starting your rant. Go back and see what I said about the wages and the ages of the players. I'll give you  a hint, I wans't talking about established players, I was talking about teenagers. I fully expect a team like Liverpool to be competing at the established end, and they have no excuses not too, but I was specificially talking about the young players that signed. 

Premier leaugue is panning out a bit of a one team league this season too the way Chelsea are going.

I won't call what you wrote rubbish, as everyone can have an opinion of course. But it doesn't make it right.

[killer-heels]

you need to read properly before starting your rant. Go back and see what I said about the wages and the ages of the players. I'll give you  a hint, I wans't talking about established players, I was talking about teenagers. I fully expect a team like Liverpool to be competing at the established end, and they have no excuses not too, but I was specificially talking about the young players that signed. 

Premier leaugue is panning out a bit of a one team league this season too the way Chelsea are going by the way lol.

I won't call what you wrote rubbish, as everyone can have an opinion of course. Doesn't make it right.

Bayern have won the league for the last 5 seasons and are bound to make it 6 this season. In that time there has been 4 different winners in the Premier League and no one has won it consecutively. Its quite clearly not as competitive as the Premier League. If players, young or old, want to go there to see a pre-determined result to them then fair play to them.

We can pay teenagers top money. Some of our younger players are paid far, far more than what Dortmund pay.

Plus we are a bigger club. Period. The only reason we should be losing out to Dortmund is because they are far more efficient in the whole transfer process. Quite clearly they are seeing as Klopp is talking to players after they have already decided to go to Dortmund.

[Dim Glas]

I know that their set up is far, far better, that much is clear, Michael Zorc is one of the best in the business. Don't know what the last sentance means, I don't think Liverpool's manager is actively talking to players that have already agreed contracts with another team.

All I am saying is they are a hugely attractive proposition, more so than Liverpool for a lot of players. Sorry if you don't like hearing it, but they really are right now for a lot of younger players.  It's not just Liverpool that they are not going to you know, Isak didn't go to Spain, there where other teams intersted in Dahoud too, as there where Dembele and Guerreiro.

But if you think the only reason they are going there and not to Liverpool is just because they are more efficient, then I don't know what to tell you. 

[killer-heels]

I know that their set up is far, far better, that much is clear, Michael Zorc is one of the best in the business. Don't know what the last sentance means, I don't think Liverpool's manager is actively talking to players that have already agreed contracts with another team.

All I am saying is they are a hugely attractive proposition, more so than Liverpool for a lot of players. Sorry if you don't like hearing it, but they really are right now for a lot of younger players.  It's not just Liverpool that they are not going to you know, Isak didn't go to Spain, there where other teams intersted in Dahoud too, as there where Dembele and Guerreiro.

But if you think the only reason they are going there and not to Liverpool is just because they are more efficient, then I don't know what to tell you. 

Klopp spoke to Dembele and he said he had already made up his mind to go to Dortmund. Why exactly is a club like Dortmund getting to a player like Dembele first? Are we just randomly picking out a player and then going for him at the last minute? Dembele was being mentioned loads previously and the first time we spoke to him is at the end of the season. If you really want a player then that seems a bit amateur hour.

Clearly the club are not very good at this transfer biz. They didn't get any of their first choice players bar Matip last season and its not like these players went to the top clubs. We clearly don't know what we are doing and thats illustrated by the frustration by fans in things like the FSG thread.

Maybe they are more attractive. But if Dortmund and Liverpool go for a player then there is absolutely no reason why Borussia Dortmund should be beating us for a player. We can pay far, far, far more than what they can. We are a bigger club than they area. We are in a more exciting league than the 1 team league of the Bundesliga.

[rafathegaffa83]

shocking as this may sound, maybe he actually didn't want to play for Liverpool (IF they actually made an offer last summer) and wants to stay in Germany.
 

Yep. Said this before in other threads. He's only just turned 21 and gets to play for a team that is guaranteed to be in the CL, who happen to be located less than 100 km from where he grew up.

Why exactly is a club like Dortmund getting to a player like Dembele first?

Maybe because like Arsenal a decade ago, they have been shown to be an ideal place for young players to develop. They are pretty much guaranteed CL football every season, where they will do well and they will challenge for trophies domestically. Additionally, if I was a younger player, I would be quite happy to go to the Bundesliga. Not as much of a glaring spotlight as the PL, but a technically challenging league that puts a premium on developing younger players and provides a good stepping stone for the likes of La Liga and the PL.

[Dim Glas]

Klopp spoke to Dembele and he said he had already made up his mind to go to Dortmund. Why exactly is a club like Dortmund getting to a player like Dembele first? Are we just randomly picking out a player and then going for him at the last minute? Dembele was being mentioned loads previously and the first time we spoke to him is at the end of the season. If you really want a player then that seems a bit amateur hour.

Clearly the club are not very good at this transfer biz. They didn't get any of their first choice players bar Matip last season and its not like these players went to the top clubs. We clearly don't know what we are doing and thats illustrated by the frustration by fans in things like the FSG thread.

Maybe they are more attractive. But if Dortmund and Liverpool go for a player then there is absolutely no reason why Borussia Dortmund should be beating us for a player. We can pay far, far, far more than what they can. We are a bigger club than they area. We are in a more exciting league than the 1 team league of the Bundesliga.

we could go round in circles with this. By the way I agree with you regards Liverpool and they way they do business, it's shit, and I hope it improves now that Ayre is gone, but I am not holding my breath.

But the rest of what you say, I just can't agree with most of that sorry, it's way off base a lot of it.  Yes players are essentially greedy, but some of them actually will do steps to improve their careers first, Isak would have earned a heck of a lot more in Spain, but chose to go to Germany. It really isn't that odd or unusual for young players to do that. But I guess if you think that just finding the player first and offering more money is all it takes, then I can't make an argument to change your mind, and thats ok too.

And again, I am talking specifically about younger players here, not established players. I have no argument there that Liverpool need to step it up in their pursuits.

The Bundesliga is a great league for them to go to as well by the way. I guess I'm not a fan of people looking down their noses at it.

[killer-heels]

Yep. Said this before in other threads. He's only just turned 21 and gets to play for a team that is guaranteed to be in the CL, who happen to be located less than 100 km from where he grew up.

Maybe because like Arsenal a decade ago, they have been shown to be an ideal place for young players to develop. They are pretty much guaranteed CL football every season, where they will do well and they will challenge for trophies domestically. Additionally, if I was a younger player, I would be quite happy to go to the Bundesliga. Not as much of a glaring spotlight as the PL, but a technically challenging league that puts a premium on developing younger players and provides a good stepping stone for the likes of La Liga and the PL.

I don't reject the claim that Dortmund is an exciting place to go. Certainly they are. My issue is that I don't believe that we cannot compete with them and in fact we should be the front runner. We are a bigger club, we have more money, we shouldn't be getting out done by Dortmund with transfers. If we are then its quite clear with the Dembele transfer is because the club isn't very good at it. The manager talking to a player when he has already made up his mind is crazy.

[killer-heels]

we could go round in circles with this. By the way I agree with you regards Liverpool and they way they do business, it's shit, and I hope it improves now that Ayre is gone, but I am not holding my breath.

But the rest of what you say, I just can't agree with most of that sorry, it's way off base a lot of it.  Yes players are essentially greedy, but some of them actually will do steps to improve their careers first, Isak would have earned a heck of a lot more in Spain, but chose to go to Germany. It really isn't that odd or unusual for young players to do that. But I guess if you think that just finding the player first and offering more money is all it takes, then I can't make an argument to change your mind, and thats ok too.

And again, I am talking specifically about younger players here, not established players. I have no argument there that Liverpool need to step it up in their pursuits.

The Bundesliga is a great league for them to go to as well by the way. I guess I'm not a fan of people looking down their noses at it.

If we go for a player and get beaten by Dortmund all the time then I will put all the blame on our club by not doing enough. Sorry, but I cannot accept that we cannot compete with Dortmund. If we can't then fuck this, there is no point bothering because clearly those people have a low opinion of the club or accept mediocrity.

[rafathegaffa83]

My issue is that I don't believe that we cannot compete with them and in fact we should be the front runner. We are a bigger club, we have more money, we shouldn't be getting out done by Dortmund with transfers. If we are then its quite clear with the Dembele transfer is because the club isn't very good at it. The manager talking to a player when he has already made up his mind is crazy.

It doesn't matter if we have more money. If you are a foreign player who is under the age of 21, you've seen Dortmund climb to the 7th highest ranked team in Europe over the past few years. In the past decade, they have won two Bundesliga titles, been runner-up three times, go to the Pokal final four times in the past five seasons and finish as runner-up in the CL. All of this mostly with a young side, who provided part of the backbone of the German side who won the World Cup in Brazil. It's a team that is pretty guaranteed CL football every season. They are an extremely attractive club for a younger player, who wants to develop and knows that he'll eventually get paid a ton.

[killer-heels]

It doesn't matter if we have more money. If you are a foreign player who is under the age of 21, you've seen Dortmund climb to the 7th highest ranked team in Europe over the past few years. In the past decade, they have won two Bundesliga titles, been runner-up three times, go to the Pokal final four times in the past five seasons and finish as runner-up in the CL. All of this mostly with a young side, who provided part of the backbone of the German side who won the World Cup in Brazil. It's a team that is pretty guaranteed CL football every season. They are an extremely attractive club for a younger player, who wants to develop and knows that he'll eventually get paid a ton.

Yes they are an attractive proposition. But in the case of Dembele, we decided to speak to him at the end of the season, in which he was on the radar of all clubs much earlier in the season. Dahoud we apparently don't want.

Money is the most important commodity in this game. Its been proven time and again that if you pay the money, you will get the player. Clubs can get over that by building good relationships with players. We with our crack team of Micheal Edwards and Ian Ayre swan in for players after they make up their mind.

[elsewhere]

If I am being honest, if i had a talented son and Liverpool&Dortmund both want him, despite being a die hard red, I would probably prefer him to join Dortmund for their track record with youngsters alone. If I had twins, then one of them were in Anfield for sure!

[killer-heels]

If I am being honest, if i had a talented son and Liverpool&Dortmund both want him, despite being a die hard red, I would probably prefer him to join Dortmund. If I had twins, then one of them were in Anfield for sure!

What can Dortmund offer that Liverpool cannot?

[elsewhere]

What can Dortmund offer that Liverpool cannot?

Ask the opposite to yourself, what can we offer that Dortmund can not at the moment. Maybe a few thousand pounds more, that's about it. I am strictly talking about young players. Dortmund is pretty much locked to be in CL every single year and in our case our chances are less. On top of my mind i can count 20 non German young players Dortmund developed and made a star/reputable player in last 5 years, i don't know if i can count any number close to that for Liverpool.

[rafathegaffa83]

What can Dortmund offer that Liverpool cannot?

Virtually guaranteed CL football every single season for one.

[Chris~]

What can Dortmund offer that Liverpool cannot?

They've let plenty players leave to the next level and are in a position to give young players more playing time. They know what they are, players do, they have a set up that works well in Germany.

As for the Dembele transfer, it sounds like it was a bit interesting. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/jan/24/ousmane-dembele-rennes-borussia-dortmund-agents-release-clause

In June 2007, the Rennes’ owner, François-Henri Pinault, purchased a controlling stake in German sportswear manufacturer Puma, who also happen to be one of Dortmund’s main sponsors having bought shares in the club in 2014. There is no suggestion that Pinault’s influence resulted in Dembélé moving to the German side, but Sambagué believes that Rennes had “closed the door to all of the clubs except Dortmund, who were willing to pay more than the clause”.

I doubt we'd have only spoken to Dembele at the end of the season, us and every other club would have been in contact with his agent way before then.

[killer-heels]

Ask the opposite to yourself, what can we offer that Dortmund can not at the moment. Maybe a few thousand pounds more, that's about it. I am strictly talking about young players. Dortmund is pretty much locked to be in CL every single year and in our case our chances are less. On top of my mind i can count 20 non German young players Dortmund developed and made a star/reputable player in last 5 years, i don't know if i can count any number close to that for Liverpool.

Name them then.

A few thousand pounds more? We have a bill of 200m a year in wages. What is Dortmund's spend?

Oh and we are a far, far more famous and bigger club.