Author Topic: FSG (*)  (Read 832586 times)

Offline liverpool185

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3360 on: February 7, 2017, 08:59:49 pm »
Good balanced article from James Pearce http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-fsg-stark-truth-behind-12571782

Liverpool supporters are angry and frustrated and rightly so.

Since the turn of the year the wheels have come off. Jurgen Klopp ’s side haven’t just dropped out of the Premier League title race, they have also vacated the top four and been beaten in both domestic cups.

Standards have slipped alarmingly. Momentum has been squandered. Weaknesses in the squad have been exposed as crestfallen Kopites come to terms with yet another trophyless season.

Many are looking for someone to pin the blame on and plenty of ire is being directed at those across the Atlantic with owners Fenway Sports Group finding their tenure under scrutiny.

The publication of private email exchanges between Liverpool’s principal owner John W Henry and fellow FSG executives prior to their £300million takeover in October 2010 have spread like wildfire on social media and been used as a stick to beat them with.

They haven’t been leaked, they were court submissions in the case between Mill Financial, the US hedge fund which made an 11th hour attempt to buy the Reds, and George Gillett Jnr, the former Liverpool co-owner. They were filed at the New York County Supreme Court in May 2015 and are freely available online.

In August 2010 when FSG (then known as New England Sports Ventures) were considering tabling a bid for the debt-ridden club, Henry wrote: “There is a basic precept/combination that I have learned from Charlie Munger and Warren Buffett that interests me in Red.

“That is the concept of acquiring a top global brand at a discount price and ensuring it is well managed. I am interested now in trying to ascertain if this is indeed a major opportunity that would indeed diversify and strengthen NESV.”

Having looked into the prospect of buying Liverpool Football Club in more detail, Henry was more enthused as he later typed: “If we could acquire this for the debt, I really feel like we would be stealing this franchise.

“In some ways they really are in the dark ages — especially competitively. The best and brightest are not presently working on English soccer. But the English Premier League is bigger than the NFL, NASCAR, MLB and the NBA internationally. Only Formula One can begin to compare in viewership.

“This could be a steal. Every buyer believes what potential Red Sox buyers believed — you have to build a new stadium. And they believe the stadium will cost more than £350m! That’s why there are no bidders. We would probably take the same approach we took to Fenway Park. But we’d be looking to limit investment in the facility to 8 figures.

“Then how much is this worth if we recruit the best and the brightest to run the soccer operation?”

The language used is undoubtedly clumsy and unfortunate. But despite the fury in some quarters, the fact is that those private emails don’t tell us anything about FSG that we didn’t know already.

They are an American sports investment company. They weren’t drawn to Anfield by the history and the tradition, the attraction was that it was an outstanding business opportunity.

Henry was right. It was ‘a steal’. Liverpool FC was in a mess at the time and was available at a knockdown rate.

With Forbes now valuing the club at £1.16billion, it’s proved to be a shrewd investment.

It’s also true that under their stewardship over the past seven years Liverpool FC has been transformed following the dark days under Tom Hicks and Gillett.

FSG have provided stability, they have put the club on a much sounder financial footing and in getting the new Main Stand built they found the perfect solution to one of the biggest issues they inherited.

Of course there have been blunders along the way, not least last year’s planned ticket price increases which triggered an unprecedented Anfield walkout and a swift apology and U-turn.

Despite the current mood of doom and gloom, it’s also worth remembering that Henry, Tom Werner and Mike Gordon pulled off a major coup when they secured the services of Klopp.

So what’s the problem? The current levels of vitriol stem from the belief that FSG simply haven’t invested enough cash in the pursuit of glory. That they haven’t backed the manager.

“We’re here to win. We have a tradition of winning,” said Henry following that dramatic triumph in the High Court in October 2010.

But a solitary League Cup triumph in 2012 is all they have to show for their tenure.

Liverpool have lost finals of the FA Cup, the League Cup and the Europa League. They have also been beaten in the semi-finals of both domestic cups and fallen agonisingly short in a Premier League title race they looked destined to win. Whenever they have looked set to take the next step, they have stumbled.

Only once during FSG’s reign have the Reds finished higher than sixth in the Premier League - that thrilling challenge of 2013-14 has been sandwiched by far too much mediocrity.

Say anything remotely positive about the owners and you risk getting shouted down as an ‘apologist’, but it’s worth remembering that from the off Henry and co warned they weren’t sugar daddies.

Liverpool FC has had to live within its means. The stark reality is that the Premier League club with the fifth highest turnover and the fifth highest wage bill currently sits fifth in the table.

Unable to compete at the top end of the market with the likes of Manchester United, Manchester City and Chelsea, the Reds have pursued a transfer policy which focuses on investing in young talent and developing it rather than buying the finished article to order to reach the summit.

FSG have sanctioned an outlay of around £475m on signings over the past seven seasons with around £355m recouped from sales.

Brendan Rodgers may have bemoaned missing out on his top targets at times and having to settle for ‘committee signings’ but Klopp enjoys much greater control. He calls the shots.

Some have interpreted Liverpool’s inactivity in the January window as proof that FSG simply didn’t back Klopp, but both publicly and privately the manager is adamant that wasn’t the case. With those players he wanted not for sale, Klopp opted to sit tight and wait for the summer.

Should the Reds have bought? Undoubtedly. The folly of not having suitable reinforcements lined up to bolster the squad has been exposed by the downturn in results. The squad isn’t as strong as either Klopp, Michael Edwards or Gordon thought it was. But if there’s blame to be attached then it should be collective.

Defeat at Hull City has left Liverpool outside the Champions League qualification places
Mistakes have been made but a sense of perspective is important. Liverpool are just a point adrift of the Champions League spot which was Klopp’s No 1 target back in August.

This season isn’t a write-off and this isn’t the time to be looking for scapegoats.

Sixteen months ago FSG and Klopp embarked on a long-term project together and that bond remains strong.

The owners believe in the manager’s ability to deliver the glory which has proved elusive during their reign to date. And Klopp’s faith that they will give him the tools he needs to make that happen remains unwavering.
David Moyes, a woman beater without actually beating a woman.

Offline Eeyore

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3361 on: February 7, 2017, 09:01:11 pm »
To be fair, anything "major" that would require a special resolution, the two could just block.

But yeah, FSG have the large bulk of the power. But they do own the club so

Plus there is no Broughton there to block FSG throwing anyone who voted them off the board. Another Henryism was that FSG appoint smart people and let them get on with running their sports Clubs.
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Offline Ma Vie en Rouge

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3362 on: February 7, 2017, 09:13:48 pm »
Despite him saying he has faith in the manager and in the club's future plans, which by the way no one knows nothing about.

Perhaps he does. I bloody hope he does. The manager is great. I love Klopp. But unless Coutinho is a very very rare exception to the rule, he'll want to play in the CL, and soon. He's a top class player. As to the "club's plans", I've heard all that before, and it's never quite come to fruition, has it? We spend big when we sell big. We make profits in transfer windows. And all this leads to is 5-7th place finishes year after year and a load of frustration. Either we've got the worst scouts in the league and it's all an organisational problem (again), or we simply have to spend more money AS WELL AS having an excellent scouting system and structure.

Meanwhile, I have to agree with those who suggest that FSG have concluded that 5-7th is ok. Not great, but good enough whilst revenue keeps rising regardless with limited investment on the playing side. I've not doubt they'd much prefer us to be top 4 and win things, but they don't seem willing to take the action to make it happen. They're hoping that a Klopp here, an underpriced signing there, and the occasional Mane will do it, but that's not likely to be enough, in my opinion.

Offline CraigDS

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3363 on: February 7, 2017, 09:21:07 pm »
non-executive board director.  We've been here before Craig.

Yes, we've been here where you show you have no clue what the non-exec part means even though I've explained it and linked to an explanation at least 3 times.

Maybe go and check again, as it's fuck all to do with his board room voting ability.

And at this point any semblance of credibility you have evaporates. Utterly evaporates.

I'd say to explain but let's be honest you wanted a sly dig at me over actually having any point.

Offline The North Bank

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3364 on: February 7, 2017, 09:24:38 pm »
The way the premier league TV deals are going, it makes no sense to take any financial risk to get into the champions league. You'll get a lot more money finishing 20th in the premier league than winning CL. So if you're an owner that is purely interested in making money,  as long as you don't get relegated, you're raking it in.

Offline Eeyore

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3365 on: February 7, 2017, 09:24:57 pm »
Question for Craig.

You have spent your entire time on here telling us that FSG didn't get us on the Cheap. What is your reaction to Henry calling it a steal ?
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Offline Eeyore

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3366 on: February 7, 2017, 09:26:26 pm »
The way the premier league TV deals are going, it makes no sense to take any financial risk to get into the champions league. You'll get a lot more money finishing 20th in the premier league than winning CL. So if you're an owner that is purely interested in making money,  as long as you don't get relegated, you're raking it in.

Plus you can cope without having a big squad and don't have to pay bonuses to your players for qualifying.
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Offline rich87

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3367 on: February 7, 2017, 09:27:20 pm »
The way the premier league TV deals are going, it makes no sense to take any financial risk to get into the champions league. You'll get a lot more money finishing 20th in the premier league than winning CL. So if you're an owner that is purely interested in making money,  as long as you don't get relegated, you're raking it in.

Whilst I agree if its purely to take money out of the club, but if its for Brand Exposure on a global scale, then the Champions League helps, if the end goal is to sell the club for a larger profit, then Champions League season on season would definitely help.

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3368 on: February 7, 2017, 09:27:25 pm »
Funny thing about the email is them saying what if we get the best and brightest to run the soccer bowl operation. Nothing about them saying we would do that after 6 years.

Offline Graham Smith

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3369 on: February 7, 2017, 09:27:31 pm »
Yes, we've been here where you show you have no clue what the non-exec part means even though I've explained it and linked to an explanation at least 3 times.

Maybe go and check again, as it's fuck all to do with his board room voting ability.

I'd say to explain but let's be honest you wanted a sly dig at me over actually having any point.

No. He's a non Exec. They gave him that role - why not just 'Director'?

He's a Board advisor and to suggest he has any day to day operational control is wrong.

And to suggest he's knee deep in the day to day decision making is a slur on a Club legend.

You're suggesting the underperformance at the Club is as much down to him as any other Director. Right?
« Last Edit: February 7, 2017, 09:32:04 pm by Graham Smith »
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Re: FSG
« Reply #3370 on: February 7, 2017, 09:31:30 pm »
Plus you can cope without having a big squad and don't have to pay bonuses to your players for qualifying.

But also, you'd never sell. Why sell something that makes you so much money, you have a business whose value keeps going up and up, even if its product isn't successful. It's a business man's dream.

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3371 on: February 7, 2017, 09:32:32 pm »
Its going round in circles here and retreading a lot of ground on the past- most would agree we've done well on the business side but must do better on the football side (both on and off the pitch).

What would everyone's three priorities be for the next 12 months? Mine would be, in order:

1) Appoint a new CEO before the summer with experience in this role at a successful football club. Someone with the skills, temperament and know-how on running the day-to-day operations of a club that is focussed on improving on field results and winning trophies.
2) Significant investment in the playing squad this summer. We need to bring in a number of quality players, its time to utilise the benefits of the increase in commercial activities to increase player recruitment. We need to be putting £80m+ net into the team this summer.
3) A decision on the Anfield Road End expansion. After the negative news from Henry it was better to hear about the comments to the Supporters Committee and looking at 62/63k. Hopefully we can also get some naming rights involvement to speed up repayment and free cash for investment on the pitch.

Offline God's Left Peg

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3372 on: February 7, 2017, 09:37:47 pm »
Its going round in circles here and retreading a lot of ground on the past- most would agree we've done well on the business side but must do better on the football side (both on and off the pitch).

What would everyone's three priorities be for the next 12 months? Mine would be, in order:

1) Appoint a new CEO before the summer with experience in this role at a successful football club. Someone with the skills, temperament and know-how on running the day-to-day operations of a club that is focussed on improving on field results and winning trophies.
2) Significant investment in the playing squad this summer. We need to bring in a number of quality players, its time to utilise the benefits of the increase in commercial activities to increase player recruitment. We need to be putting £80m+ net into the team this summer.
3) A decision on the Anfield Road End expansion. After the negative news from Henry it was better to hear about the comments to the Supporters Committee and looking at 62/63k. Hopefully we can also get some naming rights involvement to speed up repayment and free cash for investment on the pitch.

Nailed it. End thread. :)
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Offline Fairytale of 2005

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3373 on: February 7, 2017, 09:38:45 pm »
He has as much power as any other director sat on the board, that's how a board works.

Oops.

Offline CraigDS

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3374 on: February 7, 2017, 09:39:43 pm »
No. He's a non Exec. They gave him that role - why not just 'Director'?

He's a Board advisor and to suggest he has any day to day operational control is wrong.

And to suggest he's knee deep in the day to day decision making is a slur on a Club legend.

You're suggesting the underperformance at the Club is as much down to him as any other Director. Right?

Same advice to you, go and learn what a non-exec director is and then edit your reply to me accordingly. 

Unfortunately you clearly have no idea, hence your reply above. Where as I do know, hence my replies.

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3375 on: February 7, 2017, 09:40:25 pm »
Oops.

Voting power on the board. Not on day to day activities as an active employee.

Offline CraigDS

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3376 on: February 7, 2017, 09:42:29 pm »
Question for Craig.

You have spent your entire time on here telling us that FSG didn't get us on the Cheap. What is your reaction to Henry calling it a steal ?

I've spent the entire time saying no one else made a viable offer. Hence the reason they got it for the price they did and hence the reason the law suits were completely thrown out.

Offline Graham Smith

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3377 on: February 7, 2017, 09:42:49 pm »
Same advice to you, go and learn what a non-exec director is and then edit your reply to me accordingly. 

Unfortunately you clearly have no idea, hence your reply above. Where as I do know, hence my replies.

I'm afraid I do having regularly advised them. There's a reason they're called Non Execs.

And most Boards won't have more than a couple of votes per annum.

Anyway, leave aside titles - you maintain that Dalglish has as much responsibility as any other Director on the LFC Board for the underperformance on the pitch?

Simple question.
« Last Edit: February 7, 2017, 09:45:39 pm by Graham Smith »
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Re: FSG
« Reply #3378 on: February 7, 2017, 09:45:32 pm »
Does anybody actually give a toss....
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Re: FSG
« Reply #3379 on: February 7, 2017, 09:46:24 pm »
Does anybody actually give a toss....

That's what we are trying to ascertain.

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3380 on: February 7, 2017, 09:48:01 pm »
Voting power on the board. Not on day to day activities as an active employee.

Exactly.....there are 2 exec's on the BOD, Ayre & the finance guy, Hughes, they are the one's with day to day operational responsibilities.  This is normal practice in US corporations.

The rest of the BOD are non-exec, and are there for a variety of reasons.

All votes are equal, although in practical terms, for this BOD, the weight lies with the investors.

Offline mattD

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3381 on: February 7, 2017, 09:56:58 pm »
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-fsg-stark-truth-behind-12571782

"Unable to compete at the top end of the market with the likes of Manchester United, Manchester City and Chelsea, the Reds have pursued a transfer policy which focuses on investing in young talent and developing it rather than buying the finished article to order to reach the summit."

You see, this is the problem. I don't have a problem with Liverpool investing in a policy which signs young talent. I don't expect them in any way to go out and buy ready made world class players as that's highly unrealistic.

But the reality is they don't buy young talent. They buy young players, but barely any of them are making the grade. As I said, it's not about failing to obtain top world class talent. It's the failure to obtain genuine hot prospects.

Our scouting system is utterly appalling and full of no-marks who have only low league experience. Nothing is going to change at the top, and as a result, the rot seeps from the top. And unfortunately, however brilliant the manager is (and we've got the best in my opinion), he ain't gonna be able to stop it.
« Last Edit: February 7, 2017, 09:59:30 pm by mattD »

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3382 on: February 7, 2017, 09:57:22 pm »
The trouble is a lack of success on the pitch does effect us as a global brand and thus in hand goes much smaller sponsorship deals than our competitors. Man Utd now sell nearly 2mil shirts per year than ourselves with names like pogba and ibrahimavic boosting popularity, Arsenal sell 1/2 a million worldwide more than us and Chelsea who up until their success were nobody's are selling nearly a million shirts more than ourselves. It's only a dozen or so years ago that ourselves and Man Utd were the two English global superpowers, we are falling further behind.

http://c.newsnow.co.uk/A/871008955?-19388:814:0
« Last Edit: February 7, 2017, 10:03:01 pm by Redric1970 »

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3383 on: February 7, 2017, 10:13:09 pm »
Same advice to you, go and learn what a non-exec director is and then edit your reply to me accordingly. 

Unfortunately you clearly have no idea, hence your reply above. Where as I do know, hence my replies.


Believe it or not, but once upon a time, I was probably what you refer to a a non-executive director in a footballing operation that was like 1:10000000 or something of LFC's size.

During those three years, I don't think we had a decisive vote of anything; always agreed or the decision was made upfront by the inner circle.. In theory we had equal rights and responsibility (actually the latter probably is the case) while in practice it doesn't work that way and I guess you know it.

I got two season tickets and troubles sleeping at night; and I cared for my club so I would have gone out if I had to in protest regarding the direction..

I could be wrong but I have the suspicion my situation was a little different than the two non-FSG people on the board of LFC

It’s not even about individuality, it’s about the team. Our game was based on his controlling of the tempo. Squeeze the life out of the opposition and then strike. That is our game. Like a pack of pythons.

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3384 on: February 7, 2017, 10:36:11 pm »
Its going round in circles here and retreading a lot of ground on the past- most would agree we've done well on the business side but must do better on the football side (both on and off the pitch).

What would everyone's three priorities be for the next 12 months? Mine would be, in order:

1) Appoint a new CEO before the summer with experience in this role at a successful football club. Someone with the skills, temperament and know-how on running the day-to-day operations of a club that is focussed on improving on field results and winning trophies.
2) Significant investment in the playing squad this summer. We need to bring in a number of quality players, its time to utilise the benefits of the increase in commercial activities to increase player recruitment. We need to be putting £80m+ net into the team this summer.
3) A decision on the Anfield Road End expansion. After the negative news from Henry it was better to hear about the comments to the Supporters Committee and looking at 62/63k. Hopefully we can also get some naming rights involvement to speed up repayment and free cash for investment on the pitch.

Good post, some practical suggestions which should where FSG are taking the club.

I just wonder if having a CEO vacancy and no confirmed naming rights for the Main Stand may be a possible blank canvas for a buyer but at the £1.16 billion quoted in Pearce's article I don't think there are many potential bidders.

Offline Graham Smith

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3385 on: February 7, 2017, 10:41:05 pm »
A valuation is only valid if there is a buyer prepared to pay it and for them to think they can increase the value.
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Re: FSG
« Reply #3386 on: February 7, 2017, 10:43:33 pm »
Question for Craig.

You have spent your entire time on here telling us that FSG didn't get us on the Cheap. What is your reaction to Henry calling it a steal ?

Or making a return of 400% in 6 years..     While Liverpool exist to win fuck all anymore.

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3387 on: February 7, 2017, 10:48:02 pm »
A valuation is only valid if there is a buyer prepared to pay it and for them to think they can increase the value.

True but if FSG paid £300m, have increased the capacity, TV income and exposure have increased and Klopp is our manager so whilst the Pearce figure may be at the top end of the scale any sale price will be at least 500m.

So any buyer must have extremely deep pockets, even if they don't have to spend in excess of £1bn.


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Re: FSG
« Reply #3388 on: February 7, 2017, 11:04:03 pm »
The biggest issue is that FSG seem to do fuck all trying to improve the football part, but everything in their power to improve the financial situation of the club. Everyone behind the scenes are either money or stats people. The signings we have made are poor compared to other clubs like Dortmund, they find quality players at decent prices. Our coaching team are quality(except goalkeeping probably), but in every other aspect we fail on the football side of things. Our academy is not top notch, our scouting is not good, negotiations poor etc. The problems will continue until they improve and get more "footballpeople" and less "businesspeople", get a Monchi or Zorc type to build it from the bottom. Look at some of the signings we've made in recent times and the consequence has been giving inadequate people promotions and more responsibility. Its the very reason were still 5-6th like we have been for the last 5 years.  "the squad isn't as strong as Gordon, Edwards and Klopp thought it was" Pearce. What the fuck does Gordon and Edwards know about squad strenght, or football for that matter?

Offline JackWard33

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3389 on: February 7, 2017, 11:20:06 pm »
True but if FSG paid £300m, have increased the capacity, TV income and exposure have increased and Klopp is our manager so whilst the Pearce figure may be at the top end of the scale any sale price will be at least 500m.

So any buyer must have extremely deep pockets, even if they don't have to spend in excess of £1bn.



It's a Forbes valuation and it'll be based on comparable sports clubs around the world so no reason to doubt it really. Not a chance you're buying it for 500 million or anything close to that.
Yes you'd need a buyer to sell but sports businesses are ridiculously in demand because its now proven people will watch them live and pay to do so anywhere in the world - their value has, correctly, exploded in the last decade and they're not making any more of them so supply is limited

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3390 on: February 7, 2017, 11:25:58 pm »
What the fuck does Gordon and Edwards know about squad strenght, or football for that matter?
Edwards has been involved in football for over 15 year and was an ex-academy player.

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3391 on: February 7, 2017, 11:43:34 pm »
Same advice to you, go and learn what a non-exec director is and then edit your reply to me accordingly. 

Unfortunately you clearly have no idea, hence your reply above. Where as I do know, hence my replies.

Why even bother? They will never accept your explanation and as soon as you point out that Dalglish has a role on the board (effectively endorsing it by his presence and by extension the decisions it makes) they say you are totally wrong, he has no influence or power and you are slurring a legend by saying he does. For those sayong he is powerless and has no role to play in the club decision-making then why, pray tell, did he accept the role in the first place?
Beatings will continue until morale improves...

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3392 on: February 7, 2017, 11:44:52 pm »
The biggest issue is that FSG seem to do fuck all trying to improve the football part, but everything in their power to improve the financial situation of the club. Everyone behind the scenes are either money or stats people. The signings we have made are poor compared to other clubs like Dortmund, they find quality players at decent prices. Our coaching team are quality(except goalkeeping probably), but in every other aspect we fail on the football side of things. Our academy is not top notch, our scouting is not good, negotiations poor etc. The problems will continue until they improve and get more "footballpeople" and less "businesspeople", get a Monchi or Zorc type to build it from the bottom. Look at some of the signings we've made in recent times and the consequence has been giving inadequate people promotions and more responsibility. Its the very reason were still 5-6th like we have been for the last 5 years.  "the squad isn't as strong as Gordon, Edwards and Klopp thought it was" Pearce. What the fuck does Gordon and Edwards know about squad strenght, or football for that matter?

Sorry but I have to take exception to your stuff on the academy. We have some excellent prospects coming out of there. Players who are also being used in the first team set up. The likes of Woodburn, Alexander-Arnold, Wilson, Ojo, Brewster, Ejaria. Say nothing of some promising young lads in the under 18's set up. It has probably never been more thriving than at the moment.
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Offline Kop307

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3393 on: February 8, 2017, 01:21:13 am »
Sorry but I have to take exception to your stuff on the academy. We have some excellent prospects coming out of there. Players who are also being used in the first team set up. The likes of Woodburn, Alexander-Arnold, Wilson, Ojo, Brewster, Ejaria. Say nothing of some promising young lads in the under 18's set up. It has probably never been more thriving than at the moment.

That's not much to shout about.

Yes they look promising but so did Spearing, Flannagan, Robinson etc. They're all overhyped. Out of that group 1 will be lucky to have a career in football let alone a career at Liverpool. The last proper decent Liverpool player to come out of the academy and play for the club was Gerrard. 20 years ago - the hit rate is tiny. You can't really put Sterling in that either, we paid decent money for him at 16.

This ins't just a Liverpool issue. Top clubs don't produce home grown players any more in this country. Take a look through the England squad, and where those players came through, barely any of them came through a top 5 club's academy. I think Rashford may be the only one. I hold no hope for those kids at Liverpool unfortunately. If my kid was at the academy of a top club, I couldn't move him on fast enough.
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Re: FSG
« Reply #3394 on: February 8, 2017, 01:44:26 am »
That's not much to shout about.

Yes they look promising but so did Spearing, Flannagan, Robinson etc. They're all overhyped. Out of that group 1 will be lucky to have a career in football let alone a career at Liverpool. The last proper decent Liverpool player to come out of the academy and play for the club was Gerrard. 20 years ago - the hit rate is tiny. You can't really put Sterling in that either, we paid decent money for him at 16.

This ins't just a Liverpool issue. Top clubs don't produce home grown players any more in this country. Take a look through the England squad, and where those players came through, barely any of them came through a top 5 club's academy. I think Rashford may be the only one. I hold no hope for those kids at Liverpool unfortunately. If my kid was at the academy of a top club, I couldn't move him on fast enough.

I would disagree especially as Klopp has a reputation for working with young talent, the likes of the best of those players will get a chance.
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Re: FSG
« Reply #3395 on: February 8, 2017, 03:29:40 am »
Us know nothings, unqualified in the game, suspected the squad wasn't capable of going the entire season.
A coach, employed by munich, city, etc quibbled whether it was sustainable over the course of the season.
Football writers didn't expect us to challenge for the title for some reason either.
Despite our lack of intimate knowledge of the health of players, experience in the game, coaching methods, fitness, stamina there were a fair few doubting thomases.

The pertinent question is, who on the board had a scooby of that negative scenario of us not going the distance transpiring? who on the board with power and influence to change things thought there is a possibility that squad depth, despite lack of european footy, given the gegenpressing approach might actually tire players, and coupled with injuries and african cup, that our depth might be tested to the max in the merry month of december/january? 

Henry? linda? Werner? Gordon?  Who on the board, with power, has any football qualifications to make an impartial judgement call?

Cmon, the football decisions are as poor a call as business call of a portacabin and it effects us just as badly.
Why would you want any of the owners to be involved in the pure footballing decisions? I certainly wouldn't. You seem to keep dancing around wanting to give any blame to Klopp. If you want to criticise someone then you have to look at Klopp (and his assistants) -  the man they employed to manage us, including having the biggest say in recruitment. If he thought we needed more bodies he would've pushed the agenda to buy a few more players or kept a few more players. The only ones you can blame are Edwards and Gordon as they are part of recruiting but Klopp is the biggest factor. So if you want to criticise anyone, stop beating around the bush and looking elsewhere. Why didn't Klopp see this coming? He and his assistants are the ones with the most footballing knowledge especially of his own style of football and after almost a season before that to assess English football and his own players. Maybe he had more trust in our youth than you? Maybe he thought we would have less injuries? Maybe he thought we could get through 1 month without Mane and didn't see the sense in keeping players here against their will (Benteke, Allen)?

Anyway it's a pointless debate whether or not people think FSG back Klopp enough because there are many legitimate or logical reasons why we didn't spend much (net) since Klopp was appointed but apparently they are all invalid and point as 100% evidence that they don't back him. I think it will save everyone a lot of time and trouble not to argue about this too much. We will see in the summer window what happens because it's obvious then we need bigger investment into recruiting new players. So if it happens great, if it doesn't then you can aim more vitriol at FSG. We've all had our say, I'm still optimistic that the spending will happen, especially if we manage to make the CL. I'm also weary that we may struggle to attract big targets if we only make the EL or less though.

Wait and see.


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Re: FSG
« Reply #3396 on: February 8, 2017, 04:49:15 am »
Having spent years involved in and around the mergers and acquisition business, these are some of the common features I've witnessed:

1.  During the Due Diligence phase, which is effectively a major audit of assets, both parties agree that there will be no new major purchases without agreement of both sides
2.  The incumbent CEO has to leave, usually once terms are agreed and a PR launch date to announce the new Ownership/Investor is pencilled in
3.  Some senior managers can feel rudderless during this period, as they were recruited by the current Owners, who they liked but are uncertain about the incoming
4.  It's very hard to keep all this from the staff, whispers start and it can start to affect productivity - a general gloom descends over the business due to the uncertainty.
5.  Usually, regardless if its a good deal or not, the new CEO will dissipate any concerns, a major investment is announced, and the smiles return very quickly.

Oh, and yes, the old Owners are forgotten within milliseconds of them walking out of the door (holding a fat cheque...and also smiling...).

For what it's worth...
« Last Edit: February 8, 2017, 06:47:05 am by Lord Roger Hunt »
From the Country of Liverpool

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3397 on: February 8, 2017, 07:39:04 am »
It's a Forbes valuation and it'll be based on comparable sports clubs around the world so no reason to doubt it really.
Name a single English football club that has sold for a forbes valuation.

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3398 on: February 8, 2017, 08:13:21 am »
Having spent years involved in and around the mergers and acquisition business, these are some of the common features I've witnessed:

1.  During the Due Diligence phase, which is effectively a major audit of assets, both parties agree that there will be no new major purchases without agreement of both sides

No net spend in the summer, no transfers January.

2.  The incumbent CEO has to leave, usually once terms are agreed and a PR launch date to announce the new Ownership/Investor is pencilled in

Ayres has left


3.  Some senior managers can feel rudderless during this period, as they were recruited by the current Owners, who they liked but are uncertain about the incoming

Klopp feels and looks a little helpless.

4.  It's very hard to keep all this from the staff, whispers start and it can start to affect productivity - a general gloom descends over the business due to the uncertainty.

The players performence drastically down over the past 5 weeks

5.  Usually, regardless if its a good deal or not, the new CEO will dissipate any concerns, a major investment is announced, and the smiles return very quickly.

Oh, and yes, the old Owners are forgotten within milliseconds of them walking out of the door (holding a fat cheque...and also smiling...).

For what it's worth...

So what your saying is we're about to be taken over by someone? As everything stacks up?
« Last Edit: February 8, 2017, 08:15:50 am by Just Rich will do please »

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Re: FSG
« Reply #3399 on: February 8, 2017, 08:19:17 am »
Isn't every single English Football Club up for business take overs and movement.
They are extremely profitbale set-ups right now.

It should have no affect on the players at all should it.

As far as Klopp goes; it's hardly akin to Rafa v The Dickheads is it?