Topic: FSG (*)

[Red Viper]

Not really, we got Matip for free, while City wasted money on Stones Otamendi and Mangala.

Their best signing was actually at a decent price of 27m and easily in our range.

Same with the likes of Kante a player easily in our price range again, and at 150k a week easily affordable on our payroll.

Its about spending smart not the most.

But FSG aren't prepared to pay that so no, Kante was never going to be an option for us.

Also, if we come in and match Chelsea's offer, what do you think Chelsea would do? They'd just add another £50k a week like it's nothing.

[Historical Fool]

1. Wages
2. Wages
3. Wages
4. Wages

1. Trophies or a chance at them
2. Wenger

At least according to the player himself.

[Coolie High]

1. Wages
2. Wages
3. Wages
4. Wages

Arsenal have finished above us, more times than not over the last few years.

London.


What wages does Sanchez get at Arsenal, i'm sure our board and Rodgers would have gave him the 150-200.000 wage he is getting at Arsenal having disposed of Suarez for a record fee and wages around that figure.

Liverpool is not the be all and end all of the footballing world, Arsenal have actually been more successful than us for the last two decades so its not the only reason for a player to go there, afterall the player who gets so much adulation from our fans was just as ready to jump ship to them and pulled a strop in the process.

[Red Viper]

I don't want to be that guy but Livepool haven't signed a world class player in the premier league era; FSG or not. The world class players that we have had (Alonso, Mascherano, Gerrard, Torres and Suarez) were all bought (or in Gerrards case developed in house) way before that standard. We havent recruited world class players for as long as I've supported Liverpool because we simply aren't in a position to do so. Putting a player on 150k a week doesnt guarantee success. See many of City and Uniteds horrible signings the last 2 or 3 years.

It does guarantee success. City have 2 titles in the past 5 years. United only last won it in 2013.

Also isn't it funny how we stopped winning titles around the time we stopped buying world class footballers?

[Coolie High]

But FSG aren't prepared to pay that so no, Kante was never going to be an option for us.

Also, if we come in and match Chelsea's offer, what do you think Chelsea would do? They'd just add another £50k a week like it's nothing.

Why aren't they?

Sturridge is on the same wage, and Kante was signed on the back of being a league winner and the best midfielder in the league.

And what can you do about that, Chelsea are bankrolled by someone who dwarfs our owners wealth by maybe tenfold?

[Historical Fool]

It does guarantee success. City have 2 titles in the past 5 years. United only last won it in 2013.

Also isn't it funny how we stopped winning titles around the time we stopped buying world class footballers?

There's no guarantee that if such a policy is now implemented it will be a change without it backfiring.

[Red Viper]

Guys, I'm not being funny, but footballers like money. They generally go to the club who offers them the most of it.*

*Not always I know, which is why I said generally.

[Coolie High]

It does guarantee success. City have 2 titles in the past 5 years. United only last won it in 2013.

Also isn't it funny how we stopped winning titles around the time we stopped buying world class footballers?

We never really bought world class players though, i like the idea of going out for the best of the 20-23 age group problem is we didn't even do that this summer, we should have tried our possible best to get Dahoud for example, and i was irked by a lack of interest in Gabriel Jesus who was quite obviously a superstar.

[Red Viper]

We never really bought world class players though, i like the idea of going out for the best of the 20-23 age group problem is we didn't even do that this summer, we should have tried our possible best to get Dahoud for example, and i was irked by a lack of interest in Gabriel Jesus who was quite obviously a superstar.

We were regularly smashing transfer records in the 70s/80s buying everyone else's best players.

[Chris~]

Why aren't they?

Sturridge is on the same wage, and Kante was signed on the back of being a league winner and the best midfielder in the league.

And what can you do about that, Chelsea are bankrolled by someone who dwarfs our owners wealth by maybe tenfold?

I think it's way too simplistic to just state wage figures now when talking about football contracts. Bonuses, image rights, barca tax loopholes, payments to agents, etc. make up so much of these contracts.

[Coolie High]

We were regularly smashing transfer records in the 70s/80s buying everyone else's best players.

Ok since then....

Very hard to buy world class players though given our stature, how many world class players are there even around i could probably imo count the ones who are attainable and not at a Barca Bayern Madrid PSG on two hands.

[liverpool185]

This thread has been nothing more than people taking their frustrations out at us having a horrible month in which has seen us drop out of two cups and drop to 5th in the league. Quite a lot of our fans haven't got the bollocks to have a go at Klopp and the players, which let's be honest it's their fault why we are in this position now, not FSG.

This thread has only been resurrected because we are shite at the moment and if we was still at the top, still in both cups, this thread wouldn't be active at all. It's just utterly typical of our fans these days, as soon as things get tough it's all on the owners. Same happened through Kenny, Brendan and now Klopp, it's like our fans believe FSG are the ones who are managing the team losing to shite like Swansea, Wolves and Hull.

This current form is the fault of Klopp and the players, no one else... utterly embarrassing when threads like this get pulled out because the coach and players are not performing.

[JackWard33]

1. Trophies or a chance at them
2. Wenger

At least according to the player himself.

https://www.google.com.sg/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/sport/football/488179/REVEALED-Alexis-Sanchez-explains-why-he-joined-Arsenal-over-Liverpool/amp?client=safari

Not a lot of examples of players saying 'I move to make as much money as possible' after a transfer when asked why though are there ?

This was one of the worst pieces of management at the club in recent years - we held all the cards in this deal and couldn't get it done and had no back up.
Couldn't really care less about the reasons we didn't get Sanchez if I'm honest it was pure incompetence from us to allow one of the best players in the world to leave and replace him with dross.

We told our then manager 'it's fine just turn Balotelli into a star' and then most LFC fans quickly turned on the manager when he couldn't get results.
There are worrying signs we're in the early stages of a rinse and repeat where the only thing people seem capable of doing is perosnalising our transfer business to the manager who doesn't set the budgets, close the deals or cut the cheques

[Souness1]

It does guarantee success. City have 2 titles in the past 5 years. United only last won it in 2013.

Also isn't it funny how we stopped winning titles around the time we stopped buying world class footballers?

But thats the thing tho, 150k 5 years ago is todays 250-300k. We arent in a position to do this, we have only got 2 players in 150k a week and one of those was from two weeks ago.

Alright I'l counter your second point and suggest Liverpool have never bought a world class player in their history. Our perceived greatest ever payer, Dalglish, was seen as downgrade on Keegan yet the club developed him into one of the best in Europe. He wasnt one of the best int he world at Celtic. FSG recognise what position we are in financially and throwing transfer money and wages at unrealistic targets isn't the answer. Spurs only broke their 100k p/w wage barrier 2 months ago for Kane yet they sit second in the league.

[Pistolero]

The problem with that is that clubs like Liverpool are utterly dependent on those foreign fans that so many local fans are so happy to decry. It's all very well to complain about local fans losing interest, but those local fans are only too happy to benefit from the TV money, from merchandise sales, from pre-season trips abroad etc. A local club for local people is the Everton mantra and they earn about 40% of what Liverpool make. To compete they have had to sellout to a rich oligarch. Is that what people want for Liverpool?

yeah...local fans eh...what a pain the arse in they are, holding the club back..fuckin nerve of em

[Historical Fool]

Not a lot of examples of players saying 'I move to make as much money as possible' after a transfer when asked why though are there ?

This was one of the worst pieces of management at the club in recent years - we held all the cards in this deal and couldn't get it done and had no back up.
Couldn't really care less about the reasons we didn't get Sanchez if I'm honest it was pure incompetence from us to allow one of the best players in the world to leave and replace him with dross.

We told our then manager 'it's fine just turn Balotelli into a star' and then most LFC fans quickly turned on the manager when he couldn't get results.
There are worrying signs we're in the early stages of a rinse and repeat where the only thing people seem capable of doing is perosnalising our transfer business to the manager who doesn't set the budgets, close the deals or cut the cheques

Oh I'm not necessarily disagreeing, but it's disingenuous to not even consider what the player said when answering the question why he moved to a certain club. Surely that has to be the starting point, and then any deconstruction of his stated reasons comes from there.

[Cpt_Reina]

Amazing how few players City and United miss out on despite not being London clubs.

[Red Viper]

But thats the thing tho, 150k 5 years ago is todays 250-300k. We arent in a position to do this, we have only got 2 players in 150k a week and one of those was from two weeks ago.

Alright I'l counter your second point and suggest Liverpool have never bought a world class player in their history. Our perceived greatest ever payer, Dalglish, was seen as downgrade on Keegan yet the club developed him into one of the best in Europe. He wasnt one of the best int he world at Celtic. FSG recognise what position we are in financially and throwing transfer money and wages at unrealistic targets isn't the answer. Spurs only broke their 100k p/w wage barrier 2 months ago for Kane yet they sit second in the league.

That's because Spurs employ smarter people than FSG. They're doing what FSG want to do but are much, much better at it.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

I don't want to be that guy but Livepool haven't signed a world class player in the premier league era; FSG or not. The world class players that we have had (Alonso, Mascherano, Gerrard, Torres and Suarez) were all bought (or in Gerrards case developed in house) way before that standard. We havent recruited world class players for as long as I've supported Liverpool because we simply aren't in a position to do so. Putting a player on 150k a week doesnt guarantee success. See many of City and Uniteds horrible signings the last 2 or 3 years.

This is such revisionist nonsense. Fernando Torres was a superstar in waiting, he scored 7 goals in qualifying for the 2006 World Cup and then three goals at the real thing. He'd hit double figures five seasons running at Atletico and was talked about for years. He was a massive signing and many pundits tipped us to win the league in 2007/08 almost entirely because we had finally signed a top striker, seen as the missing piece of the jigsaw under Rafa.

The others weren't necessarily in the 'world class' bracket but Suarez was also a big coup for us; individually he wasn't on the same global scale as Torres - less handsome, questionable character, playing in a lesser league and from a lesser country - but he was excellent at the 2010 World Cup and plenty of clubs had their eye on him, but were put off by the biting scandal a few months earlier. The same goes for Mascherano with regards to third party ownership; everyone knew of his quality and had done for a few years, but we were the big club which decided to take the risk. West Ham got him and Tevez in the first place for a reason.

'World class' is a subjective term which tends to involve a very small group of players who frankly aren't often available. They take a massive wedge of money, both in terms of transfer fees and wages, a massive slice of luck, or a combination of both to attain. We don't need to sign 'world class' players, moreover I'm not sure we can without bigger investment and bigger success, but more ready-made first-team players with added scope for improvement like the three lads above would certainly help. We haven't had enough of them in recent years, but Mané is along the right lines.

[DonkeyWan]

This thread has been nothing more than people taking their frustrations out at us having a horrible month in which has seen us drop out of two cups and drop to 5th in the league. Quite a lot of our fans haven't got the bollocks to have a go at Klopp and the players, which let's be honest it's their fault why we are in this position now, not FSG.

This thread has only been resurrected because we are shite at the moment and if we was still at the top, still in both cups, this thread wouldn't be active at all. It's just utterly typical of our fans these days, as soon as things get tough it's all on the owners. Same happened through Kenny, Brendan and now Klopp, it's like our fans believe FSG are the ones who are managing the team losing to shite like Swansea, Wolves and Hull.

This current form is the fault of Klopp and the players, no one else... utterly embarrassing when threads like this get pulled out because the coach and players are not performing.

I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiment, but I don't think it's the frustrated gnashing of teeth alone, there are also supporters who have an agenda to remove FSG no matter what happens, but they basically come in two flavours; 1] those that want a more parochial ownership and fanbase in a sort of nostalgia trip to the 70s and 80s when the club was unparalleled in its success. 2] Those who favour a sugar daddy model and care little about traditions and standards. The former are rarely moved by an appeal to the new realities of the game while the latter are unwilling to consider the future of the club.

[Suareznumber7]

No he is, I saw him play for Liverpool and everything. He's shit.

Good against the rubbish in La Liga though.

You mean the league that has won the past 6 European trophies?  La Liga is not rubbish whether you like to think it is or not.  Just because they don't market themselves the way that the Premier league does doesn't mean it's a lower level then what you see in England.  The evidence actually points to it being a higher level league actually. 

[CraigDS]

That's because Spurs employ smarter people than FSG. They're doing what FSG want to do but are much, much better at it.

Which people are these given they've gone through more managers, DOFs, Chief Scouts, etc over the last 7 years than we have.

[Coolie High]

I think it's way too simplistic to just state wage figures now when talking about football contracts. Bonuses, image rights, barca tax loopholes, payments to agents, etc. make up so much of these contracts.

True we don't really know the intricacies of most these contracts, i'm sure Kante will probably collect a hefty bonus though for winning the league again with his 2nd side in consecutive seasons.

[Red Viper]

You mean the league that has won the past 6 European trophies?  La Liga is not rubbish whether you like to think it is or not.  Just because they don't market themselves the way that the Premier league does doesn't mean it's a lower level then what you see in England.  The evidence actually points to it being a higher level league actually. 

This evidence clearly isn't your own eyesight then?

Outside the top 4 or 5 teams La Liga is fucking dross. Just watch any games involving the bottom teams. It's unwatchable.

[Diomedieocre]

What was the reason do you think we failed to attract Sanchez?

It was wages...that's the issue with us not dining at the top echelon table. People need to understand that the very best players are coveted around the world by the richest club's...deals are struck..one sometimes two years in advance, with these super rich clubs almost guaranteed champions league as a carrott, if not they will supplement the players wage themselves in various ways.

I remember talking to a Portuguese lad about a decade ago and he couldn't understand why Stevie stayed at Liverpool rather than go to the bigger club in Chelsea....unbelieveable i know but thats how it is...most players of a young age from abroad don't see as we do. I want us to buy players that are hungry, that want to fight, that want to build , be part of a legacy, not that just want money. Fuck the hashtag , emoji, cringy hair bollocks, if the owner's bought a gimmick and whored it about like them lot id be worried.

[Red Viper]

Which people are these given they've gone through more managers, DOFs, Chief Scouts, etc over the last 7 years than we have.

They've also finished above us in 6 of those 7 seasons. So clearly, whoever they are they're doing a better job than who we have.

[Suareznumber7]

If we sign even one 'world class player' this summer I'll be absolutely flabbergasted to be honest. World class players demand high wages (£150k plus). Can anyone name one player FSG have signed and put them on that level of wage straight away?

Who was the last world class player Liverpool signed?  Someone who was world class before they got here, not when they left. 

[Red Viper]

Who was the last world class player Liverpool signed?  Someone who was world class before they got here, not when they left. 

Errr, this is kind of my point.

[Suareznumber7]

This evidence clearly isn't your own eyesight then?

Outside the top 4 or 5 teams La Liga is fucking dross. Just watch any games involving the bottom teams. It's unwatchable.

Don't watch much La Liga I take it.  If you prefer to see teams punting the ball 80 yards every 3 passes and want to call that watchable then continue watching the shit games in the Premier league.  I prefer watching teams that actually try to play and aren't petrified of having the ball at their feet. 

[Suareznumber7]

Errr, this is kind of my point.

And you are totally missing mine. 

[Red Viper]

And you are totally missing mine. 

Clearly.

[Red Viper]

Don't watch much La Liga I take it.  If you prefer to see teams punting the ball 80 yards every 3 passes and want to call that watchable then continue watching the shit games in the Premier league.  I prefer watching teams that actually try to play and aren't petrified of having the ball at their feet. 

Not getting into this as it's the wrong thread and also, different opinions and that. IMO most La Liga teams would struggle in the premier league, you clearly think differently, let's move on

[Suareznumber7]

Not getting into this as it's the wrong thread and also, different opinions and that. IMO most La Liga teams would struggle in the premier league, you clearly think differently, let's move on

And most English teams would struggle in La Liga.  Different styles of play and different reffing standards would make for a big adjustment either way.   

[JackWard33]

Oh I'm not necessarily disagreeing, but it's disingenuous to not even consider what the player said when answering the question why he moved to a certain club. Surely that has to be the starting point, and then any deconstruction of his stated reasons comes from there.

Not for me. What players and managers say in public is for public consumption.
Players almost always move for money - like they're supposed to, they're employees - other considerations are secondary. So personally I start there

[Souness1]

This is such revisionist nonsense. Fernando Torres was a superstar in waiting, he scored 7 goals in qualifying for the 2006 World Cup and then three goals at the real thing. He'd hit double figures five seasons running at Atletico and was talked about for years. He was a massive signing and many pundits tipped us to win the league in 2007/08 almost entirely because we had finally signed a top striker, seen as the missing piece of the jigsaw under Rafa.

The others weren't necessarily in the 'world class' bracket but Suarez was also a big coup for us; individually he wasn't on the same global scale as Torres - less handsome, questionable character, playing in a lesser league and from a lesser country - but he was excellent at the 2010 World Cup and plenty of clubs had their eye on him, but were put off by the biting scandal a few months earlier. The same goes for Mascherano with regards to third party ownership; everyone knew of his quality and had done for a few years, but we were the big club which decided to take the risk. West Ham got him and Tevez in the first place for a reason.

'World class' is a subjective term which tends to involve a very small group of players who frankly aren't often available. They take a massive wedge of money, both in terms of transfer fees and wages, a massive slice of luck, or a combination of both to attain. We don't need to sign 'world class' players, moreover I'm not sure we can without bigger investment and bigger success, but more ready-made first-team players with added scope for improvement like the three lads above would certainly help. We haven't had enough of them in recent years, but Mané is along the right lines.

It's all well and good calling my post nonsense but I was simply responding to another posters complaints about us not signing world class players currently, by pointing out that we never have anyway. I agree with large parts of what you say with regards to Torres, Mascherano etc but the fact of the matter is they weren't world class at the point of us signing them. Some posters need it laid out to them that complaining about us not signing the best players in the world is going to get us nowhere because its not the way we work as a club. We aren't in a position to do so. As you say, bringing in ready made first team players that are an upgrade on what we already have is the solution.

[Durlmints]

This evidence clearly isn't your own eyesight then?

Outside the top 4 or 5 teams La Liga is fucking dross. Just watch any games involving the bottom teams. It's unwatchable.

I watched Real Sociedad beat Osasuna 3-2 the other night, and a few weeks ago watched Valencia draw 3-3 against Osasuna.

Both were absolutely cracking games with some brilliant goals as well (Sergio Leon's versus Sociedad was particularly good imo)

And so you can imagine my surprise to see that they are rock bottom of the table and 8 points from safety.

I'd much rather watch them play than Sunderland, Palace, Hull or Burnley.

Not sure why you find it unwatchable! But each to his own!
   

   

[ggcc14]

No he is, I saw him play for Liverpool and everything. He's shit.

Good against the rubbish in La Liga though.

Rubbish like Real Madrid and Barca yeh? With confidence he is clearly a good player, i know its came as a surprise to me too.

[liverpool185]

I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiment, but I don't think it's the frustrated gnashing of teeth alone, there are also supporters who have an agenda to remove FSG no matter what happens, but they basically come in two flavours; 1] those that want a more parochial ownership and fanbase in a sort of nostalgia trip to the 70s and 80s when the club was unparalleled in its success. 2] Those who favour a sugar daddy model and care little about traditions and standards. The former are rarely moved by an appeal to the new realities of the game while the latter are unwilling to consider the future of the club.

I agree with both your points but I just can't take these FSG out opinions seriously from our fans when it happens every time we go through a bad patch. I didn't see any reds complaining about the owners when we were smashing teams left, right and center. Everyone was talking about how we was a match for any side and we will win the league. Now we have dropped an awful amount of points, the blame game is coming out. If people truly wanted FSG out it would consistent all-year round, not just when we get smashed by Swansea, Wolves etc and go through bad runs. We had some right bastard owners in Hicks and Gillett and it was all their fault for us being shite and not being able to compete. This rut we are in now has nothing to do with FSG, it all down to Klopp and the players, they need to take a look at themselves.

Threads like this are born out of frustrations and people are looking to blame anyone but the players and manager they love, which is wrong.

[penga]

Aspas consistently scores against the likes of Barca and Real. Scored against England on international debut too. He didn't have the mentality/physicality to make it here or perhaps also just time and rhythm. He only got like 1 season as a bench player. Not a bad player.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BGc7MeCS0c some nice goals there vs Barca and Real last season. Did it again this season, helped knock Real Madrid out of Copa and beat Barca in the league.

[tubby]

I didn't see any reds complaining about the owners when we were smashing teams left, right and center.

You must have Al on ignore.