Topic: Round Table - Palace v Liverpool

[plskikme]

For me it`s not a big problem if Coutinho drops deep - because he`s the best through-baller we have - but if he does so then Sterling and Lallana in particular have to make the runs or threaten to make the runs into that vacated space. We saw something similar with Barca and their false 9 where Messi drops deep but then you have Villa and Pedro making good runs into that empty space , latching onto through balls and scoring easily.

Either way it`s not orchestrated or practiced on enough because games are always the reflection of the work that goes on in training. Unfortunately we play too many games and don`t get to spend much quality time on the training ground so maybe that`s why we look a bit clueless at times in the final third.

I agree, I'm not looking to pin this on any one player, not least Coutinho who has still been one of our most creative players when he gets to slalom past a couple of defenders. It just seems we have no clue how to work together both in attack as well as defence.

[redk84]

If Rodgers is learning how best to use this new squad he has assembled (because lets face it, its completely different from last year now)

Then he really needs to do his homework on what sort of system he wants to use and how best to translate that to the players on the pitch. Whether what we've seen already is the means to an end which will be great or a failed attempt at something which will never work we are relying on HIS judgment. And I really hopes he can make the right decision and is advised in the correct manner because we are not seeing much from the team yet.

He needs people to keep believing in him, not least the players he has at his disposal. Forget looking at teams around us, we got problems at home.

Crystal Palace on the weekend has already been seen before. Same problems, different solutions are required...over to you Brendan

[kcbworth]

For me it`s not a big problem if Coutinho drops deep - because he`s the best through-baller we have - but if he does so then Sterling and Lallana in particular have to make the runs or threaten to make the runs into that vacated space. We saw something similar with Barca and their false 9 where Messi drops deep but then you have Villa and Pedro making good runs into that empty space , latching onto through balls and scoring easily.

Either way it`s not orchestrated or practiced on enough because games are always the reflection of the work that goes on in training. Unfortunately we play too many games and don`t get to spend much quality time on the training ground so maybe that`s why we look a bit clueless at times in the final third.

I'd like to see us package this message better.

We're not playing "too many" games.

We're playing "more" games, maybe even "a lot of games", in fact, we're still playing "in all the comps we want to be".

The byproduct of this is there is "the amount of training time between games that should define Liverpool FC" and "we need to find a way to achieve our objectives in that timeframe"

[JerseyKloppite]

I wonder sometimes about the practice of playing Lallana and Coutinho in the same team. They have very similar roles and similar styles. Both are excellent with the ball at their feet, like to beat players to make space and then play incisive passes. The problem comes when both of them play in the same lines between defence and attack and neither make the runs that each other's passing relies on.

When you're also playing 2 of Lucas/Gerrard/Hendo/Allen/Can who tend to sit deeper, at least in our system, that leaves them trying to pick out two players (and occasionally overlapping wingbacks). Sterling plus striker. Sterling looks knackered and his confidence is low, and the movement of our forwards at the moment is not good enough to really benefit. It was great to see Rickie take his goal but it was the first time he's really had a chance like that, and the only tiem for the rest of the game.

Sturridge is the answer to these questions but until then I do wonder if we need to play only one of Coutinho and Lallana, ahead of a combative, ball winning midfield (which, don't forget, usually contains players like Gerrard, Allen and Henderson who themselves are all good passers of the ball) with three players to move in front of them. I'm not sure who those players are right now mind; Markovic, Borini and Sterling?

[kcbworth]

I wonder sometimes about the practice of playing Lallana and Coutinho in the same team. They have very similar roles and similar styles. Both are excellent with the ball at their feet, like to beat players to make space and then play incisive passes. The problem comes when both of them play in the same lines between defence and attack and neither make the runs that each other's passing relies on.

When you're also playing 2 of Lucas/Gerrard/Hendo/Allen/Can who tend to sit deeper, at least in our system, that leaves them trying to pick out two players (and occasionally overlapping wingbacks). Sterling plus striker. Sterling looks knackered and his confidence iðs low, and the movement of our forwards at the moment is not good enough to really benefit. It was great to see Rickie take his goal but it was the first time he's really had a chance like that, and the only tiem for the rest of the game

Sturridge is the answer to these questions but until then I do wonder if we need to play only one of Coutinho and Lallana, ahead of a combative, ball winning midfield (which, don't forget, usually contains players like Gerrard, Allen and Henderson who themselves are all good passers of the ball) with three players to move in front of them. I'm not sure who those players are right now mind; Markovic, Borini and Sterling?

It's very very rare. From memory it's only the 2nd game I can think of that they've both been on the pitch for an extended period of time. Typically one of them sits on the bench, occasionally being subbed for the other

[JerseyKloppite]

It's very very rare. From memory it's only the 2nd game I can think of that they've both been on the pitch for an extended period of time. Typically one of them sits on the bench, occasionally being subbed for the other

Oh I appreciate this, but I just wonder if it makes sense.

[PaulF]

I reckon when PoP returns to the forum and Brendan has the benefit of his analysis here, then all will be good.

[vicgill]

Round table up. Bleak midwinter. And its only November.

Yes we're coming up to your busy time, all those pigging Pantomimes

[vicgill]

I reckon when PoP returns to the forum and Brendan has the benefit of his analysis here, then all will be good.

I truly hope you're joking, our back room is already full of Brendan's little helpers. I am not having a dig at POP, although I am not a follower of his, he does speak sense, my problem is that it's in another language.

I can only assume that you are taking the piss.

[vicgill]

I wonder sometimes about the practice of playing Lallana and Coutinho in the same team. They have very similar roles and similar styles. Both are excellent with the ball at their feet, like to beat players to make space and then play incisive passes. The problem comes when both of them play in the same lines between defence and attack and neither make the runs that each other's passing relies on.

When you're also playing 2 of Lucas/Gerrard/Hendo/Allen/Can who tend to sit deeper, at least in our system, that leaves them trying to pick out two players (and occasionally overlapping wingbacks). Sterling plus striker. Sterling looks knackered and his confidence is low, and the movement of our forwards at the moment is not good enough to really benefit. It was great to see Rickie take his goal but it was the first time he's really had a chance like that, and the only tiem for the rest of the game.

Sturridge is the answer to these questions but until then I do wonder if we need to play only one of Coutinho and Lallana, ahead of a combative, ball winning midfield (which, don't forget, usually contains players like Gerrard, Allen and Henderson who themselves are all good passers of the ball) with three players to move in front of them. I'm not sure who those players are right now mind; Markovic, Borini and Sterling?

We could give them different coloured shirts to wear, that way there shouldn't be a clash

[PaulF]

I can only assume that you are taking the piss.

Kinda . But the link between the disappearance of PoP and our form can't have been coincidence?

[conman]

bravo

[conman]

I reckon when PoP returns to the forum and Brendan has the benefit of his analysis here, then all will be good.

where is PoP anyway?

[robgomm]

Snip

Interesting stuff. For me, I say this too often, Coutinho is not a forward player, he's a midfielder. Long term I see him as a central midfielder more in a Modric mould than anything. He works so much better in my view coming from deep with the ball than anything. I wonder if that's his natural instinct as it'd explain his play.

[007.lankyguy]

Interesting stuff. For me, I say this too often, Coutinho is not a forward player, he's a midfielder. Long term I see him as a central midfielder more in a Modric mould than anything. He works so much better in my view coming from deep with the ball than anything. I wonder if that's his natural instinct as it'd explain his play.

The problem is he's too impatient to play as an orchestrating midfielder. He likes coming deep, yes, but vs low blocks he far too often looks for the penetrating pass. It may be that he can be trained to become a Modric-type player because he has the technical ability but he'd need to develop a patience and a better intelligence for understanding how to control the flow of a game at any given stage. At the moment he's a player who excels on the counter attack because he's very good at finding the penetrating pass and he's very good at dribbling past players and he's also pretty quick.

I also think he's more of a central midfielder than a number ten, simply because as a ten, there's generally a lot of pressure on you to be as consistent as possible and a lot of the game generally runs through you. In centre midfield in a three, with one next to him and one in the pivot behind, he can press aggressively, he can get space, he can look for the options behind, he can play the final ball. I just think if he wants to develop his game, he's going to have to learn to have better game intelligence and to be a lot more patient.

[Trendisnotdestiny]

The only time our goalkeepers have been really outstanding in the last 20 years was the period from 2005 to 2009 and especially in the period when Xavi Valero was goalkeeping coach. If you go back and look at the coaching qualifications he had and then compare John Achterberg to that, you may see why our standards have fallen in this area. Apart from that preiod we seem to take good goalkeepers and turn them into bad ones.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xavi_Valero

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Achterberg

Also speaking of De Gea, was there not an interview with either him or Lindergard where they said that when they came to Manu the goalkeeping coach told them that they would discard the techniques used at their former clubs and rebuild the way they would goal keep?

Complete and utter nonsense....

[Trendisnotdestiny]

Kinda . But the link between the disappearance of PoP and our form can't have been coincidence?

This is ignorant... Know what you are talking about before making these types of statements.

[Corkboy]

Complete and utter nonsense....

This is ignorant... Know what you are talking about before making these types of statements.

That's two critical and wholly unsupported posts you've made in quick succession. This is a Round Table thread. Please make an effort.

[Trendisnotdestiny]

That's two critical and wholly unsupported posts you've made in quick succession. This is a Round Table thread. Please make an effort.

I have been talking with PoP via email, so it is not unsupported.  I'll let PoP discuss his reasons for his absence. 

Also, I think generalizing over a 20 year period about a body of work to only single out one instance (Valeri) is the worst kind of cherry picking and is equally unsupported (at least in the previous post).  It diminishes many people on course to elevate a few based on some selective opinion. 

The fact that this is Round Table should make it all the more reason to get facts correct.

[PaulF]

I have been talking with PoP via email, so it is not unsupported.  I'll let PoP discuss his reasons for his absence. 

Send him my regards please.  None of my business why he no longer posts, but I've always regarded him highly, not only for his stunning technical knowledge but also his forum manners and his sense of fun.