Author Topic: Systems - Space, Time and the Principles of Play  (Read 33287 times)

Offline Vulmea

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Re: Systems - Space, Time and the Principles of Play
« Reply #80 on: January 12, 2013, 03:21:43 pm »
I'm not trying to be pedantic mate, but nobody's actually offering up just... Possession... As a tactic are they? Surely? As a strategy on its own it would indeed be shite.


'death by football' appears to be, judging 'control' by amount of possession appears to be - it leaves BR open to the accusation that we just keep the ball in our half and the oppostion are happy for it to be there - I dont think he's that one dimensional but its easy to see how that conclusion could be drawn.



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Offline exiledinyorkshire

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Re: Systems - Space, Time and the Principles of Play
« Reply #81 on: January 12, 2013, 03:38:27 pm »
'death by football' appears to be, judging 'control' by amount of possession appears to be - it leaves BR open to the accusation that we just keep the ball in our half and the oppostion are happy for it to be there - I dont think he's that one dimensional but its easy to see how that conclusion could be drawn.





Surely though possession being our main focus, leads to the simple matter of having more of our time spent with the ball. Nobody would be suggesting, least of all Rodgers, that we obtain 70per cent of the ball for the sake of it. The rational is if we have the ball the most then we are in the attacking phase of play the most. It's the attacking phase of play where goals are scored no?

His resting with the ball idea is interesting, because he seems t accept that you can't go flat out for 90 minutes, but doesn't accept that you have to relinquish the ball in order to have a breather.

Offline Vulmea

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Re: Systems - Space, Time and the Principles of Play
« Reply #82 on: January 12, 2013, 05:21:39 pm »
Surely though possession being our main focus, leads to the simple matter of having more of our time spent with the ball. Nobody would be suggesting, least of all Rodgers, that we obtain 70per cent of the ball for the sake of it. The rational is if we have the ball the most then we are in the attacking phase of play the most. It's the attacking phase of play where goals are scored no?

His resting with the ball idea is interesting, because he seems t accept that you can't go flat out for 90 minutes, but doesn't accept that you have to relinquish the ball in order to have a breather.

that depends if the stats are being used correctly - we're told dominating possession means a side usually wins - so taking it to an extreme if your keeper has it for 70% of the game you'll likely win..... its nonsense - there needs to be an attacking threat with the possession not soimply keeping the ball because as you rightly say just keeping the ball means very little without the context of the game - the rational should be that we are looking to score but I think you are correct - it is part of BR's idea - resting with the ball -  and we have not got it right because when we 'rest' we currently lose tempo and intensity and look like we are resting with the ball - which has been a flag to the opposition to take the initiative and dominate play - the intent presumably should be to maintain a threat - to deceive the opposition - disguise what we are doing so that us resting with the ball and us creating attacking positions feels the same - not to flag up hold on we're 'resting with the ball' here, over to you

the other issue with this is that its difficult to change the tempo back up again

Rafa's Valencia side were superb at keeping the ball in the oppositions half of the field which meant that not only did the opposition wear themselves out chasing the ball but if they didn't gaps apppeared that could be exploited  - by resting with the ball in our half, we are not only conceeding the territory and the initiative but removing any threat to the opposition's goal - if the opposition are content to let us have the ball then they too can have a rest - the problem is we are not currently anywhere near good enough to keep the ball in the opposition half and are best players Suarez and Gerrard are not even suited to the idea so its unlikely to come anytime soon.

if the tactic is to rest with it in our half then I think it has only limited usefulness i.e the opposition are going to need the ball, then it will be useful to draw them out , spread the play and counter with the space created, a number of teams we play dont need it - it puts  a vital importance on scoring an early goal back around to the scoreline dictaing how  game is played not space and time.........the scoreline tells you why and the style the how I guess...........
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Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: Systems - Space, Time and the Principles of Play
« Reply #83 on: January 12, 2013, 05:36:16 pm »
that depends if the stats are being used correctly - we're told dominating possession means a side usually wins - so taking it to an extreme if your keeper has it for 70% of the game you'll likely win..... its nonsense - there needs to be an attacking threat with the possession not soimply keeping the ball because as you rightly say just keeping the ball means very little without the context of the game - the rational should be that we are looking to score but I think you are correct - it is part of BR's idea - resting with the ball -  and we have not got it right because when we 'rest' we currently lose tempo and intensity and look like we are resting with the ball - which has been a flag to the opposition to take the initiative and dominate play - the intent presumably should be to maintain a threat - to deceive the opposition - disguise what we are doing so that us resting with the ball and us creating attacking positions feels the same - not to flag up hold on we're 'resting with the ball' here, over to you

the other issue with this is that its difficult to change the tempo back up again

Rafa's Valencia side were superb at keeping the ball in the oppositions half of the field which meant that not only did the opposition wear themselves out chasing the ball but if they didn't gaps apppeared that could be exploited  - by resting with the ball in our half, we are not only conceeding the territory and the initiative but removing any threat to the opposition's goal - if the opposition are content to let us have the ball then they too can have a rest - the problem is we are not currently anywhere near good enough to keep the ball in the opposition half and are best players Suarez and Gerrard are not even suited to the idea so its unlikely to come anytime soon.

if the tactic is to rest with it in our half then I think it has only limited usefulness i.e the opposition are going to need the ball, then it will be useful to draw them out , spread the play and counter with the space created, a number of teams we play dont need it - it puts  a vital importance on scoring an early goal back around to the scoreline dictaing how  game is played not space and time.........the scoreline tells you why and the style the how I guess...........

It really doesn't, though. The scoreline tells you absolutely nothing other than who won, who lost, if it was a draw, and how many goals were score. For example, what can you extrapolate from the Reading scoreline today? Only that one team scored more than the other team. There is nothing to be gleaned about the momentum of the game, the styles of play, who had the most of the play, where they had the play, what formations they played, how they attacked, etc. Even in-game, the score doesn't dictate the style of play - Barca don't pump balls into the box when they are 1-0 down with 5 minutes to go, nor do they bunker and counter at 1-0 with 2 minutes to go. Similarly, Hodgson's teams don't change their style during any point of the game. Ferguson's teams sill play with width and speed whether they are 3-0 up or 1-0 down - they don't resort to route one passes down the middle of the field. So I can't agree with the idea that the scoreline dictates the way the game goes, because there are plenty of high level examples, for better and worse, where it doesn't.

On the idea of Liverpool playing the ball around the back four, statistically, we tend to play in midfield and our attacking third more (D-M-F: 26%-43%-31%) than we play around the back and in our defensive third. We tend to play with 50-60 yards of distance from goal rather than 60-90 yards of distance.

Rodgers has always been explicit about possession with a purpose. But we do rest on the ball. Resting on the ball doesn't mean playing it around the back looking for a gap - it simply means that after a period of high pressure, whoever wins the ball doesn't immediately transition to attack; instead, they move the ball safely to a support player, who moves it to another player and once it is out of the pressure zone, the attack can be constructed from the point of release, rather than the point of origin. A typical British team will attack from where they win the ball. A continental team will build possession and rest first, and then look to attack by position rather than transition.
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Re: Systems - Space, Time and the Principles of Play
« Reply #84 on: January 12, 2013, 05:53:22 pm »

Just to expand a little further... watch this video.  It demonstrates how difficult observation can be...

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/Ahg6qcgoay4" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/Ahg6qcgoay4</a>

I'll add an explanation later when I have a bit more time  :wave

Perception is the mechanism for taking the raw data from our senses and making sense of it.  Our ability to interpret what we see/hear/feel etc would not be possible if we did not have a way to reduce the number of pieces of information before processing it all.

Most of the information that is detected by our sense organs is discarded and is never processed.  If it isn't attended to within about 2 seconds, it is lost forever.  This explains why a player might not 'hear' a shout from a teammate, or doesn't see a particular option.

It is an essential process that allows us to operate as humans.  Without it, we would have so much 'noise' we wouldn't  be able do the most simple task.

The effect of this is we have a limited channel capacity (a small amount of space in our brain to process information).  This means that for a footballer, selecting the right information to attend to is imperative, and is aided by efficient coaching and experience of the environment.  A player who has to concentrate on controlling the ball has already used up a significant amount of this space, therefore having technically autonomous players is essential to playing a high tempo, cognitive style.

It is also important in a system like this, that the players have a trained approach to filtering out the noise in order to select the choice.  Players with great vision don't have better eyes than other players.  What they have is a better trained software package to help them notice patterns, predict movement and make decisions.

The video above demonstrates that if we focus on one thing, something irrelevant to the task isn't seen.  From an offensive point of view, a run off the ball can occupy a defender's focus, allowing for other movements to go unnoticed.  It also means that team cohesion is about being able to predict teammates' decisions

Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: Systems - Space, Time and the Principles of Play
« Reply #85 on: January 12, 2013, 06:05:35 pm »
Excellent, Prof. And very pertinent. Some coaching associations have done a brilliant job with distilling the principles of play into 6 roles on the field - three for attack, three for defence. With this reductionist approach, it then becomes easier for players to know what they should be doing on a general level at any moment in the game, regardless of who has the ball:

First Attacker (Penetration) -
Dribbling
Running with the Ball
Passing
Shooting

Second Attacker (Support and Mobility) -
Checking runs
Combinations (overlaps, wall passes)
Takeovers
Switching Play

Third Attacker (Width) -
Blind-side Runs
Finishing
3rd-man runs
Target forwards

First Defender -
Pressure
Delay

Second Defender -
Cover
Marking

Third Defender -
Balance
Consolidation

So tactically, this reduces the internal "noise" for the player. They are fulfilling one of these roles depending on their being at the ball, near the ball or away from the ball. It also helps in analysing systems of play, as a good team is complete in all three roles in both phases: for example, until we played Enrique as a left wing forward, we were sorely lacking in 3rd attacker movements. Similarly, we lack 3rd defender options at times, and we are also guilty of poor 2nd defender play too against certain teams. Players will understand this easily when it is worked on, as there is little complication to the roles. Once they understand as a unit where they have to be at any one time and position of the ball, they can begin to gel their movements together to create a cohesive team - much like we saw against Sunderland. As Cruyff said - any coach who gives a player more than two options doesn't know the game.
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Re: Systems - Space, Time and the Principles of Play
« Reply #86 on: January 12, 2013, 06:11:01 pm »
And people say Sport Science overcomplicates things   :D

Great way to complete the circle PoP

Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: Systems - Space, Time and the Principles of Play
« Reply #87 on: January 12, 2013, 06:15:26 pm »
And people say Sport Science overcomplicates things   :D

Great way to complete the circle PoP

Sometimes it does, my friend. Sometimes it does. Vern Gambetta has some brilliant stuff on this. But I digress :D
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Re: Systems - Space, Time and the Principles of Play
« Reply #88 on: January 12, 2013, 06:38:33 pm »
Whoosh.............I'll come back and try again later.

Pop, ......... Ah never mind let me at least formulate a coherent question first. Keep it up though guys.

Offline Vulmea

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Re: Systems - Space, Time and the Principles of Play
« Reply #89 on: January 12, 2013, 06:41:02 pm »
It really doesn't, though. The scoreline tells you absolutely nothing other than who won, who lost, if it was a draw, and how many goals were score. For example, what can you extrapolate from the Reading scoreline today? Only that one team scored more than the other team. There is nothing to be gleaned about the momentum of the game, the styles of play, who had the most of the play, where they had the play, what formations they played, how they attacked, etc. Even in-game, the score doesn't dictate the style of play - Barca don't pump balls into the box when they are 1-0 down with 5 minutes to go, nor do they bunker and counter at 1-0 with 2 minutes to go. Similarly, Hodgson's teams don't change their style during any point of the game. Ferguson's teams sill play with width and speed whether they are 3-0 up or 1-0 down - they don't resort to route one passes down the middle of the field. So I can't agree with the idea that the scoreline dictates the way the game goes, because there are plenty of high level examples, for better and worse, where it doesn't.

On the idea of Liverpool playing the ball around the back four, statistically, we tend to play in midfield and our attacking third more (D-M-F: 26%-43%-31%) than we play around the back and in our defensive third. We tend to play with 50-60 yards of distance from goal rather than 60-90 yards of distance.

Rodgers has always been explicit about possession with a purpose. But we do rest on the ball. Resting on the ball doesn't mean playing it around the back looking for a gap - it simply means that after a period of high pressure, whoever wins the ball doesn't immediately transition to attack; instead, they move the ball safely to a support player, who moves it to another player and once it is out of the pressure zone, the attack can be constructed from the point of release, rather than the point of origin. A typical British team will attack from where they win the ball. A continental team will build possession and rest first, and then look to attack by position rather than transition.

it really does though.

the possession stat tells you absolutely nothing about the game. WBA had 63% today apparently. What can you extrapolate from that? Did Reading take an early lead and then sit back or did WBA dominate the first half and get absolutely mullered in the 2nd? Or did Reading somehow conjure 3 goals in the last knockings of the game making any analysis largely irrelevant..........the score is dictating the game during the game - your examples merely point out how unusual Barca are, both Hodgsons side and Uniteds  change their style of play depending on the score - what have you been watching? If United are losing you'll see more and more of their players in the opposition half, you'll see them adopting a higher and higher defensive line, more and more players beyond the ball, a higher and higher tempo, fewer and fewer backward passes. If Hodgson is in the same position the ball grows increasingly like a hot potato when outside the box. The losing side often attempts to increase the tempo of their game, the opposition will walk the ball into the corner with 5 minutes to go, of course the scoreline dicates how the game is played.


Under rafa in europe we often came out like a train Juve, Inter and others simply couldn't like with it - the rason because rafa wanted to maximise their uncertainty, the buzz of the crowd and get into a lead and gfrom there dicate play How often are the cliches ' the first goal was crucial' or 'the next goal will be decisive' used. The timing of goals is generally fundamental to the flow of the game.
 
again stats may suggest that generally thats were Liverpool play but those stats are generic across the whole game - they are not specifically looking at when we have tried to 'rest' with the ball which is presumably/hopefully a limited period of any game

I've said I dont think its BR's plan - well I hope it isn't - its probably a subconscious thing like defences dropping deeper and deeper when under pressure - it may be my own observational bias of course but when we drop the tempo as we have it almost forces you to fall back. We've kept the ball well on ocasion when we've kept the tempo high, we've built from the back well too on occasion. It should improve but we aint there yet.

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Offline exiledinyorkshire

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Re: Systems - Space, Time and the Principles of Play
« Reply #90 on: January 12, 2013, 06:47:10 pm »
But we are talking about it in theory as an objective towards playing circulation football. A massive factor in playing that way is high percentage possession. Whether we are doing well yet or not is irrelevant. We must do it any way we can in order to get better at it surely.

No point in throwing the stats away as a useful indicator, once we can keep the ball well we can start to play, even if in the short term we loose games with 70 percent of the ball.

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Re: Systems - Space, Time and the Principles of Play
« Reply #91 on: January 12, 2013, 07:17:09 pm »
it really does though.

the possession stat tells you absolutely nothing about the game. WBA had 63% today apparently. What can you extrapolate from that? Did Reading take an early lead and then sit back or did WBA dominate the first half and get absolutely mullered in the 2nd? Or did Reading somehow conjure 3 goals in the last knockings of the game making any analysis largely irrelevant..........the score is dictating the game during the game - your examples merely point out how unusual Barca are, both Hodgsons side and Uniteds  change their style of play depending on the score - what have you been watching? If United are losing you'll see more and more of their players in the opposition half, you'll see them adopting a higher and higher defensive line, more and more players beyond the ball, a higher and higher tempo, fewer and fewer backward passes. If Hodgson is in the same position the ball grows increasingly like a hot potato when outside the box. The losing side often attempts to increase the tempo of their game, the opposition will walk the ball into the corner with 5 minutes to go, of course the scoreline dicates how the game is played.

If United push more players forward, what are they effectively doing to the playable space?

Which law of the game governs space on the field to a large degree?

If a Hodgson team kick the ball away at every opportunity, where are they likely to be positioned on the field?

How does a team increase the tempo of the game?





Under rafa in europe we often came out like a train Juve, Inter and others simply couldn't like with it - the rason because rafa wanted to maximise their uncertainty, the buzz of the crowd and get into a lead and gfrom there dicate play How often are the cliches ' the first goal was crucial' or 'the next goal will be decisive' used. The timing of goals is generally fundamental to the flow of the game.

I'm not disputing that goals are important, and I've already said that they dictate the MOMENTUM of the game. But the TACTICS of the game are dictated by space and time and how these can be changed to one team's advantage. It's a zero sum game - If you concede space, then I gain space; but is the space conceded vulnerable space for the other team? If you press high, I have space to play in behind - but do my backs have any time on the ball to make accurate passes into the space, or are they always under pressure? Pressure=lack of time on the ball. First principle of defence - take away the time and space the player on the ball has, force them to get their head down to focus on the ball, and reduce their vision, and thus their options. If you drop into space behind, I have space in front to possess, but unless I have someone who has a dead-eye shot from 30-40 yards, it will be difficult for me to break through the lines. Defence, in any culture, at any time in the history of the game from the introduction of the offside law, has been about compressing space in front of goal, or stopping attacks at source (compressing space far from goal).
 
again stats may suggest that generally thats were Liverpool play but those stats are generic across the whole game - they are not specifically looking at when we have tried to 'rest' with the ball which is presumably/hopefully a limited period of any game

Good point, but the resting on the ball is not concerned with an area of the pitch - it is concerned more with the moment of transition, and foregoing the moment of attacking transition in order to get physical rest on the ball to reduce fatigue and allow recovery for the next period of pressure. My point with the stats was to show that we actually play relatively evenly from game to game along the depth of the whole field (principles of play again) with a slight bias towards the attacking half of the field. We don't pass along the back four aimlessly. We just don't do the traditional British football thing of winning the ball and storming forward with the first action - we, instead, move the ball out of pressure, to a player in space away from the ball, and build our attack from there. Often, that is through the defenders, but the idea is not possession for it's own sake. It is possession for rest, and then construction of attacks. If we possessed only at the back, the stats would have been skewed towards the defensive third, rather than the attacking third, no?

I've said I dont think its BR's plan - well I hope it isn't - its probably a subconscious thing like defences dropping deeper and deeper when under pressure - it may be my own observational bias of course but when we drop the tempo as we have it almost forces you to fall back. We've kept the ball well on occasion when we've kept the tempo high, we've built from the back well too on occasion. It should improve but we aint there yet.

We certainly do drop deep when we don't need to, you're not wrong there. I think it might be insecurity though, rather than a conscious tactic, because we did the same under Kenny. In fact, we were worse in those terms last season because we dropped back to about 25 yards from goal a lot. Under BR we drop to about mid-way between the box and the half-way line, as a line of confrontation. But it still comes back to space - we drop deep because either the other team takes away our forward space with good pressing, or we panic and concede the forward space in order to protect the space behind us. This has the knock on effect of throwing Reina off balance, because he prefers the high line. Space is a consideration even from an individual point of view, as well as a team-tactical one. Players have comfort zones related to personal space, and them more skilled players will need less space than the less-skilled players to feel comfortable while playing.
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Re: Systems - Space, Time and the Principles of Play
« Reply #92 on: January 12, 2013, 07:42:48 pm »
Excellent, Prof. And very pertinent. Some coaching associations have done a brilliant job with distilling the principles of play into 6 roles on the field - three for attack, three for defence. With this reductionist approach, it then becomes easier for players to know what they should be doing on a general level at any moment in the game, regardless of who has the ball:

First Attacker (Penetration) -
Dribbling
Running with the Ball
Passing
Shooting

Second Attacker (Support and Mobility) -
Checking runs
Combinations (overlaps, wall passes)
Takeovers
Switching Play

Third Attacker (Width) -
Blind-side Runs
Finishing
3rd-man runs
Target forwards

First Defender -
Pressure
Delay

Second Defender -
Cover
Marking

Third Defender -
Balance
Consolidation

So tactically, this reduces the internal "noise" for the player. They are fulfilling one of these roles depending on their being at the ball, near the ball or away from the ball. It also helps in analysing systems of play, as a good team is complete in all three roles in both phases: for example, until we played Enrique as a left wing forward, we were sorely lacking in 3rd attacker movements. Similarly, we lack 3rd defender options at times, and we are also guilty of poor 2nd defender play too against certain teams. Players will understand this easily when it is worked on, as there is little complication to the roles. Once they understand as a unit where they have to be at any one time and position of the ball, they can begin to gel their movements together to create a cohesive team - much like we saw against Sunderland. As Cruyff said - any coach who gives a player more than two options doesn't know the game.

This is really useful. I have found communicating the various roles in the context of the position of the ball quite difficult. This idea of filtering out the 'noise' is and simplifying to 6 roles is great. Once again thanks.
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Re: Systems - Space, Time and the Principles of Play
« Reply #93 on: January 12, 2013, 09:50:29 pm »
Football just isn't as complicated as in the original post. I'd really like to know what education in football they have had to come up with these analysis. To me it's badly over complicating something that is so simple to understand.


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Re: Systems - Space, Time and the Principles of Play
« Reply #94 on: January 12, 2013, 09:53:07 pm »
Football just isn't as complicated as in the original post. I'd really like to know what education in football they have had to come up with these analysis. To me it's badly over complicating something that is so simple to understand.

Original post wasn't complicated at all. It's what players of all levels learn every week.
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Re: Systems - Space, Time and the Principles of Play
« Reply #95 on: January 12, 2013, 10:00:45 pm »
Football just isn't as complicated as in the original post. I'd really like to know what education in football they have had to come up with these analysis. To me it's badly over complicating something that is so simple to understand.

Genius always looks easy when you're not the one doing it.

Performance sport requires high levels of attention to detail.  Everything PoP has written is bang on and no secret.  Rather than assume the little you know is everything, begin to educate yourself and you'll see a whole new world.

Building the pyramids was piss easy though, they just chucked a couple of rocks together.

Ignorance more often begets confidence than does knowledge.

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Re: Systems - Space, Time and the Principles of Play
« Reply #96 on: January 12, 2013, 10:49:38 pm »
Football just isn't as complicated as in the original post. I'd really like to know what education in football they have had to come up with these analysis. To me it's badly over complicating something that is so simple to understand.

Right, the same way that pool/billiards/snooker isn't "as complicated" for the skilled player as the physics/mathematical equations required to model, explain, and predict any one game of pool.

Football at a high level is not "simple to understand". It's elegant. There's a difference.
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Re: Systems - Space, Time and the Principles of Play
« Reply #97 on: January 12, 2013, 11:01:22 pm »
Excellent, Prof. And very pertinent. Some coaching associations have done a brilliant job with distilling the principles of play into 6 roles on the field - three for attack, three for defence. With this reductionist approach, it then becomes easier for players to know what they should be doing on a general level at any moment in the game, regardless of who has the ball:

First Attacker (Penetration) -
Dribbling
Running with the Ball
Passing
Shooting

Second Attacker (Support and Mobility) -
Checking runs
Combinations (overlaps, wall passes)
Takeovers
Switching Play

Third Attacker (Width) -
Blind-side Runs
Finishing
3rd-man runs
Target forwards

First Defender -
Pressure
Delay

Second Defender -
Cover
Marking

Third Defender -
Balance
Consolidation

So tactically, this reduces the internal "noise" for the player. They are fulfilling one of these roles depending on their being at the ball, near the ball or away from the ball. It also helps in analysing systems of play, as a good team is complete in all three roles in both phases: for example, until we played Enrique as a left wing forward, we were sorely lacking in 3rd attacker movements. Similarly, we lack 3rd defender options at times, and we are also guilty of poor 2nd defender play too against certain teams. Players will understand this easily when it is worked on, as there is little complication to the roles. Once they understand as a unit where they have to be at any one time and position of the ball, they can begin to gel their movements together to create a cohesive team - much like we saw against Sunderland. As Cruyff said - any coach who gives a player more than two options doesn't know the game.

Can you please humor me and evaluate or rate Glen Johnson and any other LFC you choose along the above dimensions or criteria?
Ludi Circenses!

Offline exiledinyorkshire

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Re: Systems - Space, Time and the Principles of Play
« Reply #98 on: January 13, 2013, 12:11:33 am »
Football just isn't as complicated as in the original post. I'd really like to know what education in football they have had to come up with these analysis. To me it's badly over complicating something that is so simple to understand.




Mate just try explaining it to people who have never really played it before. What are you actually going to tell them, it seems simple enough as a concept, football being a simple game of the giving and receiving off passes and all that, but seriously watch a seven year old stand rooted to the spot with that as his instruction.

Sound bites or clever sayings are not in and of themselves coachable methods. It has to be broken down into specifically coachable parts that all fit together, or its a dogs dinner, or you get lucky.

Offline Vulmea

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Re: Systems - Space, Time and the Principles of Play
« Reply #99 on: January 13, 2013, 02:18:41 am »


clearly we are at cross purposes -  you keep dealing with the how - the objective of the game is not to control space, its not to control your opponent, its not even to control the ball,   they are simply means to an end and that end is to achieve the result you need -  coaches have different methods for getting there, the greatest minds to look at the sport have devised principles of how best to achieve your objective but they remain the means not the objective - it would be a very odd game if the objective did not drive the game but the means did......

the idea that all defence is based on controlling space is also untrue - football is not so one dimensional - BR has gone some way to this in discussing that defence can actually consist of just holding the ball -  if we have the ball they can't score  a tactic we used remorselessly especially before the demise of the back pass rule - so controlling the ball is one form of defence - - going three goals up and demoralising the opposition or controlling  your opponent is another -  - then there is also the time worn tactic of just hoping your defenders are better one on one - leaving them one on one against their opponent - only nominal consideration of time or space simply man on man normally as desperation mounts and all consideration of space and time diminish as the objective looms large.........and of course there's Brazil 1970.....the best form of defence is attack after all

tactics can't just be the manipulation of space and time unless we are back to that granularity thing again because there are other aspects in and around the game - the crowd, the players, the ball, emotion, fitness, mentality, skill and luck all have to feature somewhere - all can be used to create and disguise a different tactical advantage

anyhow keep up the good work
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Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: Systems - Space, Time and the Principles of Play
« Reply #100 on: January 13, 2013, 04:07:33 am »
Cross purposes for sure I think. We may actually agree on much without realising it. Love the discussion though. Much thanks!
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royhendo

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Re: Systems - Space, Time and the Principles of Play
« Reply #101 on: January 13, 2013, 09:38:13 am »
Football just isn't as complicated as in the original post. I'd really like to know what education in football they have had to come up with these analysis. To me it's badly over complicating something that is so simple to understand.

The original poster earns a living working in the game. Just ignore the thread mate.

royhendo

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Re: Systems - Space, Time and the Principles of Play
« Reply #102 on: January 13, 2013, 09:53:32 am »
.

Contrary Mary.

If you think defending isn't based on controlling space, it's a shame you weren't marking me when I was playing. ;)

Offline Vulmea

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Re: Systems - Space, Time and the Principles of Play
« Reply #103 on: January 13, 2013, 10:34:49 am »
Contrary Mary.

If you think defending isn't based on controlling space, it's a shame you weren't marking me when I was playing. ;)

i didn't  say that, I said all defending isn't ......... intimidition theres another tactic to add to the list of  none tardis specific means to an end.........they didn't call me 'crazy mad dog pyscho ' for nothing :) to be honest I'm not sure anybody liked playing against me and my lack of spatial awareness, but then  my lack of timing was probably more relevant.......
The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate, contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and unrealistic.

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Offline John C

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Re: Systems - Space, Time and the Principles of Play
« Reply #104 on: January 13, 2013, 11:59:04 am »
Getting the ball to that space perhaps then creates enough time to get a ball in to a player behind the defence damaging their shape, the change in shape  creates more space somewhere else perhaps exploited through a quick combination of passes and that leads to a good shot on goal.

Football being so quick and dynamic means this can rarely be thought through so players learn pattern recognition to the point where it's instinctive. The good players are the ones that only require a small advantage to put the opposition to the sword, the great ones are the ones that seem to be able to make a small advantage into a huge one seeing the game 3-4 moves ahead of everyone else.
I'm guilty of only just paying attention to this thread, thanks PoP.

Well put Dan, this is how I always look at phases of play in the final third. And the determining factor of course is the accuracy of any ball, remember a good build up at Anfield about a month or so ago only for Suarez to pass the ball being Gerrard who was in effect through on goal. Those margin of errors can shape results.

What I've found frustrating for about 3 or 4 years now is our regular failure to exploit area 16 or 18 in the image below. Assuming the move is fast enough to avoid being off-side, too often instead of our players moving in to those areas to receive the ball, a player will come back from the front of area 13 and 15 to behind the player with the ball to encourage a back rather than forward pass. Space simply isn’t exploited enough imo.



Another really interesting thread illustrating a wealth of knowledge from you guys.

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Re: Systems - Space, Time and the Principles of Play
« Reply #105 on: January 14, 2013, 12:12:25 am »
Great thread! Enjoyed reading every bit of knowledge found here.

I reckon football is more than just systems. The cattle is very important too. The difference between winning and losing is someone's moment of brilliance or someone's mistake. Football is not like cricket or basketball where the outcome of the match isn't determined by a single moment or two. In football, the margin of error is small. I feel that there is no one system better than another. Execution is key. In recent years, cast your mind back to the FA Cup final against Arsenal. Two top drawer Owen goals meant we kept the cup even though we were dominated by a good Arsenal side for long spells.

However, that's is only one side of the story. How many cup competition matches can we play in premier league matches?

I personally like what Rodgers is doing. The players are "getting" the system and we seem to be creating more attacking space at will than before. It's our defence which worries me. We seem to be giving up space easily and not being compact enough.

Offline exiledinyorkshire

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Re: Systems - Space, Time and the Principles of Play
« Reply #106 on: January 14, 2013, 10:20:29 pm »
Watching the 21's today and its noticeable the the support work is better than the first teams. You can clearly see constant movement to form the diamonds. Perhaps I don't notice it with the first team because I'm ball watching but with the younguns they look like they are playing the way the should be.

Thanks to phase of play fro getting me watching my football a different way.

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Re: Systems - Space, Time and the Principles of Play
« Reply #107 on: January 15, 2013, 10:42:02 pm »
It's a great thread but I feel like the moonwalking bear... in the middle of something that I'm not part of but all the same am there at the same time ;D
Yep.

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Re: Systems - Space, Time and the Principles of Play
« Reply #108 on: January 15, 2013, 11:36:25 pm »
It's a great thread but I feel like the moonwalking bear... in the middle of something that I'm not part of but all the same am there at the same time ;D

George the Bear in a RAWK post. Who'd have thought?!

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/Gh6aqOR_XFo" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/Gh6aqOR_XFo</a>
Just clicked on the main board and my virus scanner came back with this

"When we visited this site, we found it exhibited one or more risky behaviors."


:lmao

Strip his knighthood https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/47770

royhendo

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Re: Systems - Space, Time and the Principles of Play
« Reply #109 on: January 17, 2013, 09:04:28 am »
Some fun on the web this last couple of days.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2013/jan/15/the-question-4231-football-tactics

(In my head, as I read this, I'm thinking 'formations are neutral', and it's 'stone paper scissors' and space and time.)

Quote
The Question: Has 4-2-3-1 lost its gloss?

Intelligent wide players can hurt teams that use the system and having seemed so advantageous for so long, now it is just one formation among many

-

Football, as Mr. Ferguson noted last week, moves in cycles. He was talking about clubs and nations, about how certain places suddenly produce a great generation of players, but it is true as well of formations and styles of play. After the rise of 4–2–3–1 to replace 4–4–2 as the world's default, the backlash is well and truly under way. As so often, the key lies on the flanks.

The history of football tactics is, to a large extent, the search for space and when the centre is crowded it is on the less crowded wings that the key battles are fought.

The early lawmakers, when they devised the dimensions of the pitch, showed great wisdom and foresight (or got lucky, but let's give them credit). We take it for granted today, but there is something perfect about the goal being three times wider than it is high and the penalty spot being placed one-and-a-half times the width of the net from the goal.

Even as players have got bigger, it works. Given roughly three out of four penalties are converted, a penalty is effectively worth about three-quarters of a goal, which intuitively feels right. But they also got the overall size of the pitch (100-130 yards by 50-100 yards – in practice about 110 by 68) spot-on; it turns out 10 outfield players are not quite enough to cover it. Pull the blanket however you like, there will always be a little left exposed.

Juanma Lillo, the great mentor of Pep Guardiola, said that 4–2–3–1 gave him the best distribution of players over the pitch, which is understandable. The central three in midfield is flexible and playing with the wide men high up averts the immediate problem of 4-4-2 which is that the opposing full-backs have time and space in front of them (even distribution is of importance, of course, primarily for sides playing a game based on passing and pressing and there are other, equally effective and equally legitimate modes of play that have other priorities). But there is space there; the blanket is never quite big enough.

The problem is that if the wide men are advanced to pin in the opposing full-back, there is space between them and their own full-back. It is difficult space to exploit, being neither behind nor in front of a team but between two lines, but it is possible.

Robinho, whether by design or instinct, prospered there in the first half of the World Cup quarter-final between Brazil and Holland in 2010, never playing close enough to Gregory van der Wiel for the full-back to get tight to him but equally left largely untroubled by Arjen Robben. His goal stemmed from a run made from space into further space that opened in front of him, with Robben trailing hopeless in his wake.

An intelligent wide man, who drops off the full-back, can prosper against a 4–2–3–1, particularly if the opposing winger neglects his defensive work. Robben might argue in that instance that he was more concerned with keeping an eye on Michel Bastos, Brazil's left-back, and he may even have a point – not that Robben has ever been especially diligent – but the more general point remains: when a forward drifts in that in-between zone he becomes extremely difficult to pick up.

We are used to hearing of No10s playing between the lines; 4–2–3–1 with two holding players discourages that, but the corresponding weakness is in the wider areas. Part of the reason for the transformation in that quarter-final and the Dutch comeback was that Nigel De Jong drifted further to the right in the second half and Van der Wiel pushed forward slightly, the movement of the two stifling Robinho.

Robben became the dominant presence, suddenly freed to run at Michel Bastos as Robinho neglected his responsibility to track.

When 4–2–3–1 first emerged, it seemed a way of reintroducing dribblers into the game. With the likes of Lionel Messi, Cristiano Ronaldo, Robben and Eden Hazard, it is easy to forget that by the mid-90s, it had become relatively rare to see a player run at an opponent and try to take him on primarily with skill as opposed to pace. The old-school winger may have been reinvented as a wide-forward more concerned with scoring than crossing, but in terms of close technical ability, often from a standing start, many of the attributes of the traditional winger have been reawakened over the past 15 years.

What has become increasingly apparent, though, is that having players with a licence to dribble from high up the pitch brings its own danger. Those wide men must also be prepared, as an absolute minimum, to track or close the opposing full-back and, ideally, they should have the awareness to drop off and pick up the opposing winger if he comes into that three-quarter space at the edge of the 4–2–3–1.

At the start of the season, when they played all three of Hazard, Oscar and Juan Mata, Chelsea were exposed in wide areas, even though Oscar and Mata are reasonably diligent. Back threes, in which the wing-backs occupy an unusual midway position, seemed to cause them particular problems, although they solved that against Aston Villa, by a combination of their own changes and Villa's haplessness. Even Ronaldo can cause problems for Real Madrid.

And during their defeat to Manchester City on Sunday, it became apparent – not for the first time – what a problem Lukas Podolski presents for Arsenal. He is a brilliant player on the break but lacks the close technical ability and imagination regularly to unlock packed defences or to get by an opponent who is tight to him, and he rarely tracks. The result is that Kieran Gibbs is frequently left exposed. Both Manchester City goals came down their right-hand side, albeit the first as Arsenal dozed having conceded a free-kick, and James Milner, chugging intelligently in the space Arsenal's shape allowed him, was a persistent threat.

None of which is to say that 4–2–3–1 is finished or diminishing as a formation. Like all formations, it has its strengths and its weaknesses. When it was fresh, understandably it took opponents time to work out where those weaknesses might be but over the past three years or so, they have become apparent.

Nothing in football is foolproof, nothing is absolute and 4–2–3–1, having seemed such an advantageous way of playing for so long is now just another formation among many.



Also the ongoing Pep-related chat. De Boer's words and the Van Gaal legacy.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21053259

Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: Systems - Space, Time and the Principles of Play
« Reply #110 on: January 17, 2013, 04:27:37 pm »
I think that all dovetails nicely into the second half of this piece :D

(Also I have one working on the Ajax link over the Barca one :) )
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Offline enoder

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Re: Systems - Space, Time and the Principles of Play
« Reply #111 on: January 23, 2013, 11:20:57 pm »
Hi,

Great thread, some questions. When you pick a system you require a specific set of attributes for players, different systems different attributes?

For the System we have picked what seems to stand-out is that the players need to have intelligence or is that really game-intelligence, or are they one and the same?

Which means that scouting becomes a search with pretty exact criteria, with specialist criteria for each position, if the players are not available for the system can you easily change it up or are you forced to put square pegs into round holes?

Coaching the system - Do players have to sit down in a classroom and get this stuff taught to them, watch videos, do a bit of reading, or is this all absorbed on the pitch and through a set of trained patterns? Can the average footballer learn all of this and apply it on the pitch  -what type of time frame does it take

Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: Systems - Space, Time and the Principles of Play
« Reply #112 on: January 24, 2013, 12:39:37 am »
Hi,

Great thread, some questions. When you pick a system you require a specific set of attributes for players, different systems different attributes?

Generally, yes. You either pick players for your system, pick a system for your players, or do nothing and leave it to them. System and formation are different things though. A formation is one aspect of a system, so a coach/manager who says they like 4-4-2 isn't really revealing much about systems they prefer. Some managers/coaches put players in a formation and let them figure it out. There's no right or wrong way, it's however you make it work.


For the System we have picked what seems to stand-out is that the players need to have intelligence or is that really game-intelligence, or are they one and the same?

Sometimes they are, and there are studies on "executive function" that show that sportsmen and women have higher levels of exectutive function than the average person. For our system, we need speed, agility, mobility, game intelligence, a good first touch, turning, dribbling ability, and ability to receive with proper body shape. There might be more specifics that Rodgers/backroom staff look for, but those are the technical requirements at least.

Which means that scouting becomes a search with pretty exact criteria, with specialist criteria for each position, if the players are not available for the system can you easily change it up or are you forced to put square pegs into round holes?

It's flexible. The general principles will be there, and the player's personalities adapt the shape. Henderson attacking mid, Suarez left wing against Norwich. But Suarez has freedom to roam, and Henderson can do the running of two men, so the shape changes, even if the system and principles don't.

Coaching the system - Do players have to sit down in a classroom and get this stuff taught to them, watch videos, do a bit of reading, or is this all absorbed on the pitch and through a set of trained patterns? Can the average footballer learn all of this and apply it on the pitch  -what type of time frame does it take

There will be aspects of visual learning, but most of the work will be done on the field with small sided and large sided games, games with conditions, games with changed variables, etc. The average footballer can and does learn these things, if they are with the right coaches. The time frame differs from player to player and team to team, but from a coaching mindset, if you want your players to learn "playing from the back into the middle third", it shouldn't take more than 12 weeks if you only have 2-3 training sessions per week. It depends on the group of players though. Might be longer for amateurs, it WILL be longer for youth players, and professional players will have a lot of the groundwork by age 21, so it's really more about shaping their thinking towards the coaches vision and making it a habit.
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Offline exiledinyorkshire

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Re: Systems - Space, Time and the Principles of Play
« Reply #113 on: May 21, 2013, 06:23:13 pm »
bumped. just because this is a great thread.

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Re: Systems - Space, Time and the Principles of Play
« Reply #114 on: May 29, 2013, 04:43:54 am »
I personally think the o.p. is style, formation and balance agnostic Al. PhaseofPlay even illustrates this using a Hodgson set up as a contrast.

I think your point is a good one though - there's always that stone paper scissors thing going on, and fashion dictates to a great extent, but Spain and Barca are just modern instances of a much much longer tradition in my view. There's nothing wrong with structure to your game. If your approach allows that structure to come with attacking emphasis, all the better, no?

As for Simeone, it's easy to say a team can have too much of the ball when you've got Radamel Falcao up top. Counter attacking football will get you so far, but it won't get you all the way as consistently as you'd like if you've got genuine ambition. For me it should be an option, rather than the default. But that's my preference.

Laudrup's interview with El Pais is maybe more compelling.

Loved this bit and I share that opinion. Arsenal away was a good example of us using counter attacking football as an option to our advantage.
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Offline -Daws-

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Re: Systems - Space, Time and the Principles of Play
« Reply #115 on: June 2, 2013, 04:11:37 pm »
Some great stuff in here, as well as an excellent opening post.

I'm hungover as fuck and with the transfer forum making my headache worse, I thought I'd pop in here and post a snipped and edited version from my Systems chapter in my portfolio. It does also contain development information and drills to help implement these systems long term, but I've had to cut that out because I can't seem to generate the images from the software I use onto here; I'm a drip at that sort of thing. Anyway, hope someone might enjoy it, although I think PoP and others may have covered a fair bit of it without rambling anywhere near as much in the process  :wave

Systems of Play

Introduction


Here I am going to look at a range of different playing styles and system that we see used throughout the world of football. Because football is such a free flowing sport, with tiny differences in circumstances leading to often drastic alternatives in outcome, it is important to understand what system it is that you want to implement as a focus point for your team, although a certain flexibility is needed for most successful sides in order to address the different strengths and weaknesses of any given opponent. One the one hand, you have the short sharp passing of Barcelona and Spain, who are very progressive in the speed that they move forward but the ball is in a constant cycle of movement which makes it difficult for the opposition to rest off the ball because the players will drift into pockets of space created by their team mates moving the ball between them at such velocity.  It is why these two sides are each so good at both club and international level. Imperative qualities in the players needed to execute this are exceptional first touch and close control, intelligent movement into space and to create it, and of course a composure on the ball which allows these technically gifted players to lift their heads and find their team mates regularly without panic. Both the club and national development coaches over the last 10-15 years must take great pleasure and credit in pioneering and developing this effective method of football into their young players. It is very impressive.

Of course however, this is only one example of how the game can be approached. It must be acknowledged that environment has played a key part in differing styles in different parts of the world. The hotter and dryer the environment, the more contained the football is. Players break into sprints less often, as the movement of players is slower and more considered than in colder climates. Because of the added heat, the firmer ground and the speed of which players can dehydrate or fatigue, the ball is required to do more of the work and the physical aspects of any individual player or team are less relevant than here in England. The ball goes from back to front slower, counter attacks are less common, and the game itself is less physical and intense. These may sound like draw backs, but it does in fact force players to be more technical and intelligent as physical qualities such as pace and strength are less utilized and less effective.

However, here in England things are of course different. Extended winters and wet seasons see as many games at a lower level played on mud as grass. Due to reduced temperatures and humidity in England the pace of the game is usually a lot more intense, and the physical players have far more influence on games as referees are more lenient, and the sport is considered a more robust, physical battle mixed with technical qualities such as shooting from distance, crossing, heading and tackling. This makes the game more open, with counter attacking football being a solid provider in goals.

There is a discipline to be upheld however, as certain players in certain roles must refrain from bombarding forward, aware that they may themselves be caught on the counter. It is something we see more of in England, Belgium, and some of the Scandinavian nations, as well as other cooler climates such as Serbia or Russia. Due to these alternatives in environment and climate, we see different qualities appear in players that come through the youth ranks and into European competition. Often better physically equipped than the Mediterranean countries, they are habitually quicker, stronger, and more aggressive. Look at Germany for a happy medium between technical, physical and mental qualities in Europe.

Looking further afield to Brazil and South America, the three clear technical qualities we see are ball skills, dribbling and close control. Players are flamboyant, unpredictable, usually very skilful and quick as well. There are of course some brutes that usually end up in goal or at centre half, but a majority of the players are of moderate to slender build full of pace and energy. Individually and collectively, Brazilian players are often marvellous to watch, the way they seems to have the ball on a string at times and their quality should be respected all the more when you consider the poor quality of life for children growing up in Brazil, but it seems their football education is embedded in their environment. The streets, the beaches, the poverty, the heat, colourful nature and culture of Brazil and its neighbouring nations all play a part in a player’s development without the intervention of coaches and facilities of a high level. Historically, the most naturally gifted youngsters come from the South Americas, and only the climate and environment can be the direct influence of this when you consider the lack of funds and facilities available to a majority of these players whilst in key periods of their development stage. Playing with smaller and harder footballs on hot beaches allows players to gain a unique control of the ball and fleet footedness. On the streets they toughen up, kick balls against walls and between themselves for hours upon hours due to a poor academic education system. The harsh reality of their lives growing up seems to strengthen them mentally and unfortunately, being a footballer is one of a very few aspirations a young person can realistically dream of and achieve. The players may be a gift to football, but footballer is a bigger gift to them, as it can provide hope in a place where it otherwise mightn’t exist.

Barcelona and Spain ‘Tiki-Taka’ – Winning beautifully

The fundamentals of each system vary in form and function. We can begin by looking at the most artistic and beautiful form of the game, in the way we have seen Barcelona perform over the last 5 years or so. It is a system that has been in place at the Barcelona set up since the turn of the century where ‘tiki taka’ was formed. It’s also very similar to the one Arsene Wenger had set up at Arsenal during that period, and is my personal preference as a base system. The foundation of the system is of course possession. The ball is often kept ticking over along the line of the back four and a pivoting player ahead of it. Full backs are hardworking, technically sound and usually very quick. The midfielders are usually within a very close proximity and they knock the ball between them in triangles at great speed with limited outlay in energy. The ball is often played first time and over a short distance whilst the players rotate, circle, and bend round each other with their movement through the middle. The full backs move directly towards the byline to provide a good wide outlet not only to stretch the play, but due to their directness of running, often penetrate it. The tradition centre forward is replaced with the false #9, who drops off from the oppositions centre halves and plays creator almost in a #10 role, with the wide forwards providing the movement in between full back and centre half to stretch the pitch lengthways and also provide penetration. Arse Wengers set up was slightly different, but was based around similar styles in terms of playing keep ball to draw opponents out then strike quickly, accurately and clinically.

The development of the young players at Barcelona was very technical and mentality based. First touch, movement, passing ability and dribbling skills were the primary abilities in the coaching vicinity, as well as well drilled pressing exercises. Mini games were a common occurrence, used to hone these skills in tight areas where good control and quick decision making abilities are enhanced allowing the game to be the teacher within certain perimeters set by the coach to discourage other methods of play becoming part of the session such as long passing, distant shooting, crosses, heading and playing the ball into a large area of space. Because of the style of the game, some key attributes can be worked on successfully without direct instructions stopping the play regularly; these make these qualities part of the subconscious of football for the developing players, and allows them to work on them in a free flowing, game basis and without the fun of football being lost in the education process.


Another key aspect in perfecting the tiki taka system is players playing the way they are facing. Watch any Barcelona match and you will see that whenever a player receives the ball, he has a team mate give him an instant option to play a short pass the way he is facing. The movement and passing they use make it fundamental that the player with the ball can play a ball straight ahead of him and find a team mate. Because the Barcelona players rarely turn on the ball unless it is a necessity, the transition in passing is at a high tempo which makes it difficult for the defending team to adjust to the movement of the ball and the players because of the speed and simplicity that it takes place. Barcelona and Spain have used this tactic to draw defenders out of position, and create space for their talented forwards, becoming possibly the most potent attacking threat in the world. This is an aspect of their game that is more difficult to acknowledge and grasp for young players, and needs to be educated more directly than the mini games.

Direct attacking football - Winning ‘ugly’

A more acquainted sight here in England is end to end football. The pace of the game is considerably quicker, players work harder to support the player with the ball and get back behind it when it’s lost rapidly. Wide players stretch the play more and deliver more into the penalty area where you regularly find powerful centre forwards and defenders. Physical qualities are far more influential and common, and the ball is moved more directly and is less progressive. It can be accomplished in a couple of different ways. If you were to look at Stoke City or a Sam Allardyce West Ham United, you see evidence of what is known as ‘ugly’ football. It’s not exactly the term I’d use, because a goal is a goal and how it is scored is of little to no consequence, and sometimes it can be this ‘ugly’ system that scores you the most important goals, and it is certainly a valuable often effective tool that must be recognised and operated.

It is usually consisted from back to front in almost a set of three. The centre halves are big, strong, physically imposing with astute aerial prowess, and defend deep in and on the egde of their 18 yard box, soaking up pressure and blocking out the most dangerous areas of the attacking third with a bank of four and 5. The midfield will consist of energetic players, particularly the wingers whose job it is to get in front of their full backs early when out of possession and provide good pressing ahead of them, and also be pro-active pushing forward to support and provide a good outlet for a forward who may have received the ball directly. The central midfielders will be full of stamina in order to press the opposition and the passing lines quickly, as well as being physically capable of bullying opposition midfielders. In an attacking sense, these players should have good long passing skills and at least one (who will usually play behind the forward or maybe on one flank) must be able to anticipate and work off knock downs to support his forward and get into goal scoring areas on a regular basis. A powerful, pacey centre forward can usually utilise the direct ball to best effect and this can (to a degree) be at the expense of technical ability, although at least one clear technical quality (heading, finishing, maybe chest control) should also be found within this player at higher levels for any reasonable success with the system.

It is not a possession based system of play. In fact it thrives off of being out of possession because it draws its opposition out and if the organisation and pressing of the side can be well coached and executed it can actually achieve a degree of control without the ball. Gerard Houllier near enough perfected the direct containing game and won a bunch of trophies in 2001 and once seriously challenged a league title. The system had been exasperated however, and we became predictable, our major weakness being that we couldn’t break teams down. The Heskey/Owen partnership was crumbling, muck like their bodies and mentality; being unable to get into goal scoring positions when teams sat deep. The trouble with this system is that if it is deployed as a regularity, it’s because a team lacks technical and intellectual qualities and are often trying to hang onto games and hit sides with a sucker punch. This is what the struggling teams do out of necessity, and better sides sometimes utilise but do not rely on it.

Top level counter attacking football – Winning consistently

A perverse personal favourite of mine, this is a system that has performed consistently to the highest level for 20 years or more here in England is the one we have seen Manchester United deploy under Mr Ferguson. It is somewhat of a hybrid, in that there is a way United are able to apply a degree of different systems and approaches together in accordance with the in game situation and circumstance, the opponent, and even indeed the games importance or relevance. Let me get this straight, I don’t actually believe United are the masters of this system, because Ferguson has entrenched a mentality in the club from grass level up that will not lose. Many of the best managers in the world often speak of mentality and its massive importance and Ferguson has been a master of this as well as good transfer market nous. He has turned over almost 3 generations of footballers with differing abilities and qualities to the same consequence, knowing that mentality is a key aspect, but I digress…

The system itself is a simple one that relies on players knowing their roles and responsibilities and when required taking that responsibility themselves. It is loose in places but that gives it the flexibility required to adapt and implores a trust in its players to make the correct decisions and have enough quality to execute them. In Manchester United’s case the system is actually 4th in the pecking order of significance because mentality and quality come first and foremost, which Ferguson has been very good at in finding, installing a winning mentality, and then motivating. These are his habits, and though they are winning ones once again I am missing the point of this chapter…

What this system is about being good during transitions in play, accurate passing, quality into the box from wide and focused on creating lots different chances for very clinical strikers; there is direct swiftness in the passing from back to front and through the midfield. To set this system up appropriately there must be a monster centre half; aggressive, strong, excellent in the air, partnered with a player who reads the game well, can play out from the back, with decent mobility or some sort of combinations of those qualities. Full backs are usually progressive and get up and down regularly but not necessarily rapidly. One holding midfielder will be combined with a good box to box passer and the wingers will stay wide and offer width and quality into the box supported by their full backs. Both forwards will have slightly alternating qualities but most importantly will be excellent finishers or poachers.

In terms of how the system is deployed, it encourages a pass and move game, where when the ball is lost it is pressed and covered quickly and without hesitation. Due to the quality of players needed to execute this system it is in the main a possession based set up but importantly the idea is to get the ball quickly and accurately to the wide areas of the pitch on a regular basis and put good quality into the box from there. United have had wingers like Beckham, Giggs, and Ronaldo over the years who have always been supplemented with other good wide men like Valencia, Nani, and Park, as well as full backs like Rafael, Evra, and Neville, all of whom able to deliver excellent quality into the penalty area. Good wingers are key to the way United have played as well as ruthless forwards. The United midfield has been as poor as it’s ever been this season (though it must be said Michael Carrick has performed to a high level consistently all year) and yet United reign Champions again. ‘Mentality, mentality, mentality’. But the point is they can still rely on creating chances from wide for finishers of the quality of Van Persie, Hernandez, Rooney, Welbeck as well as solid defending to win the league. Again. The ball and players in this system can move quickly, slowly, progressively or directly but it will always get to a player in the final third on a regular basis where the final pass will inevitably be a good one and the forward will regularly test the goalkeeper throughout the match and score goals. It sounds too simplistic to have seen such remarkable results and be successful for such an age of time, and is very much about winning a game in the law of averages, but this is only part of it.

The transitions are where United really prevail. If the ball is lost, they have an effective method of winning the ball back quickly or efficiently. Should the ball be conceded high up the pitch the defenders will often stick, while the wingers twist and press the ball tenaciously (along with the forwards) whilst the centre midfield duo/trio will work quickly to prevent a counter attack through the middle by dropping off as well as win the second ball if the ball is initially hit long over the top of them. The defensive players will work hard to hold up the pace of the counter attack whilst the attacking players track back and regain some shape. From here, United are fairly confident containing the play on the edge of their own box, knowing that their centre halves and goalkeeper will take a majority of what is thrown at the aerially.

Offensively, when the play transpires back into United possession, they can be devastating on the counter attack, again attempting to get the ball wide early and play from there. If the winger picks up the ball just in his own half he will inevitably be able to either hit a progressive diagonal pass over the top or take the ball on himself and run towards the final third. The forwards work hard to match him every step of the way whilst the box to box midfielder will back up the play in order to pick up second balls or arrive late into the penalty area. Because of the nature of the counter attack, the main priority is to get the ball into the box at the first opportunity, should it end up not presenting itself, then the full backs will also quickly step up and support the wingers to provide an easy outlet should the move slow. From here United are again happy to just try and get quality into the penalty area, knowing their rewards will come.

Being Brazil – Winning World Cups

As I mentioned before, the environment and climate in which young players grow up in in Brazil constitutes outstanding individual talents. I’ll take this opportunity to mention a very similar Argentina side and the individual qualities their players’ possess. You needn’t say more than Lionel Messi and Diego Maradona. Focusing on Brazil however, they have come to several world cups hosting different formations and slightly different styles of play. Even a Brazil team can contain too many individual players but usually they use each other well always offering outlets, finding passes that simply didn’t look there, and hitting teams at pace on the break. Two big centre halves will usually operate at the back, although one will be an excellent ball player. Two full backs full of pace, energy, and technical qualities and a holding  ‘volante’, whose job it is to sweep up infront of and occasionally behind the two centre backs and dictate the play from there; the Dunga role. Ahead of him will be one box to box player, and then a combination of attackers. To the Brazilians shape is only subjective and there must be fluidity in position and movement between the attacking 5 players supported by a steady centre back partnership and volante. To put it simply, Brazil don’t rely on an attacking system at all and just make sure they get the ball to their attacking talents and go from there. They are unpredictable, sophisticated and intense.  Once in the lead they will keep the ball for extensive periods with short pass and move until the need or opportunity arrives to score again. If you score 4 goals, Brazil will score 5. It may be a cliché, but it’s literally the intent players go out with, and they have an unerring belief that they will do that.
It's hard enough remembering my opinions without remembering my reasons for them.