Topic: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans

[Cid]

You should be writing for some red top rag.

Although the lack of movement on the stadium is worrying, the vast majority of those issues you point out are hardly entirely the owners fault.

They're in charge. They have made the decisions.

They're responsible for sacking Kenny after providing him not a single penny in the January windows despite us having no defensive mid in the entire squad.

They green lit torres away,  Carroll in,  Carroll out and then didn't provide money to fill the void. Fuck up after fuck up after fuck up and the fun continues.

They're either blatantly asset stripping or they don't know their arses from their elbows.  I'm supposed to be patient and happy that these tits have a long term vision based on a financial fair play rule that will NEVER be enforced in any way that matters and accept the fact they never even considered bringing back a manager who won the champions league and got us to second on less money than we have even now?

[TALBERT]

Long term

5 year plan

Remember that players are as fickle as fans

We are building but whats to say Agger, Reina, Suarez, Lucas and Skrtel all want to leave?

I just feel we are a couple of players away from competing why not invest now?

The whole Dempsey/ new signing on the last day just seemed like the complete opisite of the overspend on Carroll and co....

We have still got another 2 years of Cole bleeding us dry...

FSG appear to be like Tom and George but with PR and charm...

[gamble]

With all the problems at the club, the footballing matters worry me the least - squad size, incoming and outgoing transfers, transfer budgets are all bread and butter stuff to every single football club.

What worries me is that the owners admit they are learning on the job. This, coming from the guys with a self proclaimed background in sports management.

Some of you still give FSG far to much credit, they effectively own a free business. FSG are a private equity house. We know how the story ends.

I spent my early 20s devising and breaking down PE strategies, this is textbook stuff to me and I don't have the will to talk on the subject with people who refuse to accept what is happening. Buy - repair - flip. That's how the story goes, doesn't really matter when the flip is, could be 2 years from now, could be 10 years from now, but that's how it goes. The only news that matters to me is regarding the stadium, I am waiting for capital expenditure investment. That would make FSG stand out from most other Joes who could run the club with exactly the same level of financial ownership.

Until then, keep punching above your weight brendan.

[FlashingBlade]

The thing that bothers me in the approach of FSG, LFC management and the attitude of us fans is whilst we seem to accept we need to steadily manage the club in financial terms , the rest of football isnt exactly standing still waiting for us to get our house in order is it? The harsh fact is those who spend the most ( on wages in particular) generally succeded the most..and gain on that success and spend more again...an unpalatable truth maybe...but one that served us well in the past....but then what are the options for us now?...it seems we must play the hand we are now dealt.

However, this talk of patience I find had to swallow...I feel like Ive been patient for about 20 years ...I want to win the fuckin league!!.... I hate the word patience in football cos for fans to me it means a passive acceptance... I suggest we say will be expectant! ..we expect FSG to deliver! ...hanging around 8th spot for a few years looking at our watch wondering when the glory bus arrives is not acceptable.

Liverpool fans must demand the best , understand the issues, but not meekly.

[Cocomin]

Regarding FFP i see Zenit have just signed Hulk and Axel Witsel for 90 million Euros are we the only club that think that FFP is going to happen ?

[Whelan and dealin]

I believe FSG have principles and have shown that by refusing the Dempsey deal on cost.
The cut in wages is also the right move.

What worries me most is the under performance of the senior players
Gerrard, Reina, and Suarez,

If they had delivered these last 3 games (bar Suarez v City)
The transfer window saga and the ensuing knee jerk reaction wouldn't
be an issue

[bigbear]

Long term

5 year plan

Remember that players are as fickle as fans

We are building but whats to say Agger, Reina, Suarez, Lucas and Skrtel all want to leave?

I just feel we are a couple of players away from competing why not invest now?

The whole Dempsey/ new signing on the last day just seemed like the complete opisite of the overspend on Carroll and co....

We have still got another 2 years of Cole bleeding us dry...

FSG appear to be like Tom and George but with PR and charm...

It seems to me that if we are embarking upon this wait and see strategy then we should sell the likes of Agger and Skrtel, Reina too because by the time the waiting is over they will be worth an awful lot less and beyond sale. If we are not seriously trying to challenge for the top 6 now then why not just cash in and buy the best 21 - 23 yr olds to come through with us. That would be the logical step.

We are not going to get CL football with no forwards, and we have made it clear that we are not interested in Cups. Seems to me it's tighten your belt time all around club and fans.

[didi shamone]

Absolutely spot on from Royhendo. No paranoid conspiracies or anti- American tripe, just an observation of the fact we've been rudderless in the football side of things under the new owners. It's not just the keyboard warriors that are knee jerking. We seem to change our ideas on structures all the time.
 Our league positions are on a downward trajectory. We've now entrusted a rookie manager with a mammoth task. Will the owners give him the patience they want from the fans if we finish 8th or worse again? Or will we get a sacking and another letter?. My money would be on the latter.

Basically I believe these people want to be successful but whoever has been advising them  on football matters is doing a terrible job. I have heard it's people who are highly respected within the game and that doesn't fill me with confidence. Because highly respected in football often translates to professional bullshitter.
We have the bones of a decent squad but one of the weakest attacks in the league. It's going to be a hard slog till Christmas for Rodgers I reckon.

[FLRed67]

To all those suggesting "FSG out!" and "FSG should sell!", I have a simple question:  Where is the queue of billionaires lined up to buy the club and drop a half billion on players?

Kenny Huang? DIC?  I didn't think so.  Try joining the real world.

We are paying the price for two decades of mismanagement, the last half decade of which has been a shambles.

With any luck, we may have people in charge who will bring some sense to the club. Even if that means being mid-table for a couple of years.

And to those spouting vile abuse at the owners and their wives on Twitter and elsewhere: feel free to go and support another club. You are an embarrasment to our club.

[Harinder]

But it's a chronic repeating pattern they could fix by simply engaging with the problems and engaging their common sense. JP's the man we need in this debate.

And this is where I find them baffling. JWH - hedge fund background and they react to conditions of flux in predictable and structured manners to either take advantage or protect the hedge so to speak

Working in similar circles, and akin to the thread that got deleted just as Kenny was dismissed, I stated they would act in one of two ways. Either tear down the structure and strategy of a funds direction or if they feel they have the strategy and structure but the driver of the vehicle isn't working they will start there.

Which of the two do we think they've actually gone for?

There are people on this site who have a deeper and much better understanding of footballing tactics and coaching as well as the economics of business. If anyone of them can actually lay it out in regards to how they are showing the world they haven't been winging it on the footballing front I would love to see it. Simply so that we have a more educated viewpoint.

I don't expect FSG to ever display the full 360 degree view and business strategy as no firm will ever do that. I do expect them to fulfill words with actions. They are by no means stupid people. Under the hood are some truly sharp business minds but there is a time where it must be realised that not all of football is a business that reacts in a business like manner. The structure of good business may protect you from that. Key word is structure.

a 19 player squad is not that. Good business practice dictates, actually by regulation in their finance world, to have business continuity and disaster recovery plans. Well, in our 19 player squad where is the resiliency for a loss of key player to injury with a comparative person? Other teams actually have the depth. We don't. We know we don't. We haven't for ages and remarkably it may be a while until we do again. We recognise this. Hopefully FSG do too.

I don't think anyone really wants to be against any establishment at Liverpool Football Club. We've been through darker periods TOGETHER and we know what togetherness means. Sometimes FSG make it hard and the little piece inside of me still shouts "no, no... have faith. It will all become apparent and the unveiling of better days consistently on the pitch are just around the corner". If Sunday against Man City was the first course, we all waited with our tongues hanging out for the main course in the last week of the transfer window.

Not only didn't the main course arrive, we didn't get dessert. We were told to return the meal from the nights before and just as the indigestion finally looked like it was over, the Rennie failed and we realised we may have the runs too

The letter may be dioralyte but only time will tell 

[OrangeMochaFraps]

OP is spot on.  Sensationalizing is so easy in today's world - particularly when it's perpetuated by the media and social networking sites.

Patience is key, trust is key, and supporting the team is paramount.

[RI-Red]

For all the doom and gloom merchants read the OP and sit down and think.

I am 50 and have been totally spoilt as a Liverpool fan all my life to have been a part of this fantastic journey that has taken me to the highs and lows of football but in all my years I have never lost faith of the Liverbird on my chest

The number one thing is as Liverpool fans we need to remain positive and take the media bashing as it has been Fleet St's favorite hobby since the Souness years to damn this great club of ours.

Don't help them write shite by blaming FSG for everything that is going on

[Fordy]

To all those suggesting "FSG out!" and "FSG should sell!", I have a simple question:  Where is the queue of billionaires lined up to buy the club and drop a half billion on players?

Kenny Huang? DIC?  I didn't think so.  Try joining the real world.

We are paying the price for two decades of mismanagement, the last half decade of which has been a shambles.

With any luck, we may have people in charge who will bring some sense to the club. Even if that means being mid-table for a couple of years.

Sorry but this is so wrong.

[Trada]

Something went wrong it must have been the rush to get rid.

Tony Barrett ‏@TonyBarretTimes

a £1 million loan fee for Carroll? Six years ago #LFC got a £2.5m loan fee for Scott Carson! Bad business whatever way you look at it

[jillcwhomever]

The thing that bothers me in the approach of FSG, LFC management and the attitude of us fans is whilst we seem to accept we need to steadily manage the club in financial terms , the rest of football isnt exactly standing still waiting for us to get our house in order is it? The harsh fact is those who spend the most ( on wages in particular) generally succeded the most..and gain on that success and spend more again...an unpalatable truth maybe...but one that served us well in the past....but then what are the options for us now?...it seems we must play the hand we are now dealt.

However, this talk of patience I find had to swallow...I feel like Ive been patient for about 20 years ...I want to win the fuckin league!!.... I hate the word patience in football cos for fans to me it means a passive acceptance... I suggest we say will be expectant! ..we expect FSG to deliver! ...hanging around 8th spot for a few years looking at our watch wondering when the glory bus arrives is not acceptable.

Liverpool fans must demand the best , understand the issues, but not meekly.

See the first part of your post is very true. It's how I see this whole FFP business, it is only going to work if every team is doing it, and is made to do it. I would love to think that UEFA will bully everyone into accepting it, but I just can't see it. Football and common sense are not natural bedfellows never have been.

[rafathegaffa83]

Regarding FFP i see Zenit have just signed Hulk and Axel Witsel for 90 million Euros are we the only club that think that FFP is going to happen ?

Nope. The likes of Arsenal, Bayern Munich and A.C. Milan, as well as the European Commission seem to think so.

[zabadoh]

The only news that matters to me is regarding the stadium, I am waiting for capital expenditure investment. That would make FSG stand out from most other Joes who could run the club with exactly the same level of financial ownership.

Until then, keep punching above your weight brendan.

The club's woes on the field are rooted as you say in our failure to manage our off field revenues as well as our competitors.  We're doing better with sponsorships and marketing, but the last major piece is the stadium ( expanded or new), _and_ the mythical Football quarter. 

Until all out revenue is maximized, we continue to struggle on the field for lack of investment unless we find a sugar daddy.

[gamble]

Something went wrong it must have been the rush to get rid.

Tony Barrett ‏@TonyBarretTimes

a £1 million loan fee for Carroll? Six years ago #LFC got a £2.5m loan fee for Scott Carson! Bad business whatever way you look at it

Other clubs know we are either a soft touch or desperate. or both.

[danielfonseca]

i'm not sure about FSG but i don't know, i just really believe in brendan rodgers

I am not anti or pro FSG but they have to their credit pumped in around £150 Million  gross player investment, but you not sure about them so far, but what have you seen about BR to believe in him so much ?  it cant be the results surely ? is it the pholosophy , did LFC have have no philosophy for the last 120 years  that won 60+ trophies ?

I am not pro BR or Anti BR, but I think a liverpool manager especially 1 with no track record at big clubs or sustained period of success should focus purely on results first and ideologies second after proving themselves, rafa did that, kenny did that after hodge, and all other top coaches do it.

BR in my opinion will not see the season through and to be honest mate we are all tired of transitions, and excuses , as it was only 3 years ago we were favourites for the PL and joint second favourites for the CL, evolution was needed not revolution, he was not the right coach and thats a fenway error not his fault, but once in he should have done the basics first , which was whats good from previoulsy and last season and then evolve from that point while building blocks as you gain results.
Luís André de Pina Cabral e Villas-Boas tried changing to quickly did not succeed, and same situation here, Luís André de Pina Cabral e Villas-Boas was about players , BR is about philosophy, well we already have 1 pass and move is the liverpool groove, no need to be swansea , we are not swansea, he should focus on results rather than try to be shankly, we dont need shankly we need a competent coach that can win matches !!

[Trada]

"At a football club, there's a holy trinity - the players, the manager and the supporters. Directors don't come into it. They are only there to sign the cheques". Bill Shankly on boardroom meetings

[TALBERT]

Something went wrong it must have been the rush to get rid.
Tony Barrett ‏@TonyBarretTimes
a £1 million loan fee for Carroll? Six years ago #LFC got a £2.5m loan fee for Scott Carson! Bad business whatever way you look at it

Aren't we paying quite abit to Madrid for Sahin

Granted West Ham are meant to be paying all Andys wages

[Fordy]

Something went wrong it must have been the rush to get rid.

Tony Barrett ‏@TonyBarretTimes

a £1 million loan fee for Carroll? Six years ago #LFC got a £2.5m loan fee for Scott Carson! Bad business whatever way you look at it

Wow - 1 million loan fee ha ha and we let him go without a replacement.

It was bad business letting Adam & Carroll go knowing full well we were in the EL both players should of stayed until the Jan window at least. Thought Rodgers acted very navie during the window.

Kuyt, Bellamy, Fabio, Maxi had already left.

Bad business..No excuses.

[Gnurglan]

I'm for what FSG have done with our finances and I'm for the idea that we should live within our means. But when it comes to the long term plan, or philosophy, I don't trust them. Too many changes.

I get the impression they want an U23 side. My view is that you have to fight very, very hard to get a competitive team. You need a mix of players and every single season you need to change players to stay competitive. To think it's about putting a young team for the future in place is an illusion.

The most worrying aspect is the suggestion (largely it seems from the Times' Tony's) of brinkmanship between manager and owners in recent days. That a Sturridge deal was sanctioned but pulled by Rodgers; that Henderson was offered for Dempsey without the backing of the owners; that Carroll was allowed to leave by Rodgers with the idea of forcing the owners hand on another couple of million (or Henderson).

This all comes back to a point made many times by many posters: the club needs a strong CEO in the UK with the power to make decisions and sanction expenditure.

It would not surprise me if that's true. That's the kind of conflict I mean. We have the idea of youth from FSG vs Rodgers' pragmatic approach, where he's focused on today. That's not to say Rodgers doesn't care about the future. He does. But he realises there's a today as well. I fully understand Rodgers if his choice was to loan out Carroll and lose Henderson to secure Dempsey. The reason is simple. Henderson is 5th pick for CM. He can be sacrifised. That's a very brave move. And the side could do with a more experienced striker than Sturridge.

This is also the sense I have about FSG when it comes to football. They appear to be out of touch with the game. Almost as if they have a romantic idea of how to be successful, as if they want to prove they are clever. First they hired Comolli and thought they could calculate their way to success. As if they had this magic formula they wanted to use on football. Now they want a young manager and a young team. It's like they can't help but get involved in something they don't know anything about. And it causes more harm than good.

[FlashingBlade]

See the first part of your post is very true. It's how I see this whole FFP business, it is only going to work if every team is doing it, and is made to do it. I would love to think that UEFA will bully everyone into accepting it, but I just can't see it. Football and common sense are not natural bedfellows never have been.

I think its a bit of a fairy tale to believe Sir Michel Platini of UEFA on his nobel white steed FFP  will be riding in to save the poor damsel of LFC against the mean wealthy Barons....and if he does , they must get him to sort the banks out!

[danielfonseca]

Something went wrong it must have been the rush to get rid.

Tony Barrett ‏@TonyBarretTimes

a £1 million loan fee for Carroll? Six years ago #LFC got a £2.5m loan fee for Scott Carson! Bad business whatever way you look at it

six years ago we had rafa and parry, (rick parry knew something about football more than Ayre, and rafa was heavily involved surely,)

[jillcwhomever]

For all the doom and gloom merchants read the OP and sit down and think.

I am 50 and have been totally spoilt as a Liverpool fan all my life to have been a part of this fantastic journey that has taken me to the highs and lows of football but in all my years I have never lost faith of the Liverbird on my chest

The number one thing is as Liverpool fans we need to remain positive and take the media bashing as it has been Fleet St's favorite hobby since the Souness years to damn this great club of ours.

Don't help them write shite by blaming FSG for everything that is going on

I'm sorry but I'm fed up of being pigeoned holed just because I don't hold the same view as others. I have explained in an earlier post why I have problems with the way FSG have gone about things. Now you may not agree with it, that's your right, but like it or not I have genuine fears.  At the end of the day this is a forum and everyone has different views, and a right to express them. That does not mean we don't all support the team, but I fear the way FSG are handling this, has made it ten times harder for the manager, to deal with any problems that will occur during the season.

[zabadoh]

Something went wrong it must have been the rush to get rid.

Tony Barrett ‏@TonyBarretTimes

a £1 million loan fee for Carroll? Six years ago #LFC got a £2.5m loan fee for Scott Carson! Bad business whatever way you look at it

I assume WHU are also paying Andy's massive wages too.  That may have factored into the final fee.  Fat Sam is no dummy, as his twitter shows.

[bigbear]

I assume WHU are also paying Andy's massive wages too.  That may have factored into the final fee.  Fat Sam is no dummy, as his twitter shows.

Don't forget though that Allardyce was on record saying that Carroll would keep them up. That had to be worth more than 1m loan fee.

It rivals the Aquilani saga for it's incompetence which takes some doing.

[Stussy]

I think that knee jerk dismissal and blind cynicism is as unproductive as giving FSG a free pass.

Watchful, mindful but friendly engagement is the right stance to take.

[rednich85]

It rivals the Aquilani saga for it's incompetence which takes some doing.

The only small comfort I took from the Aquilani saga was that I told myself it would be nigh impossible to surpass.

We've done that and then some.

[TALBERT]

Don't forget though that Allardyce was on record saying that Carroll would keep them up. That had to be worth more than 1m loan fee.

It rivals the Aquilani saga for it's incompetence which takes some doing.

Would be mad if West Ham finished above us wouldn't it

[Newman96]

Doc posed a great question on twitter, where were PSG and Zenit's owners when we were for sale? It does make you wonder.

[flemingcool]

Something went wrong it must have been the rush to get rid.

Tony Barrett ‏@TonyBarretTimes

a £1 million loan fee for Carroll? Six years ago #LFC got a £2.5m loan fee for Scott Carson! Bad business whatever way you look at it

Can't imagine Scott Carson was on circa £80k a week. 

[Arcadian]

That's fair comment, but do we give them the time to gain that experience that is specific to running an English Football Club or lambast them for being American (which seems to be one of the main criticisms in the original thread). I think Hij is spot on, but also share Roy's concern that things not everything is right within the club.

It's a choice between cock-up and conspiracy.

And that's exactly the situation we're left with.

Show me a fortune 500 company that would accept the blunders, gaffs, and underperformance we've become accustomed to. Heads would be fucking rolling like Henvy V's divorces, and that would go all the way to the top.

We're a rudderless Peaquod with a blinded Ahab and our "Starbuck" Rogers has already been left hanging out to dry by either incompetence or impotence and neither are acceptible at Liverpool football club.

When we arrived at the point that we were vastly understaffed in an area that has been wanting for a year, the doledrums absolutely set in and the owners have brought this critisism upon themselves. I ask all the FSG supporters... truthfully is it any wonder that we are sceptical when they seem unable or unwilling to put their house in order?

So here's my "Open letter to John Henry"

Dear John,

Get your shit together man.

There are people worried about your desire and competence, two things I'd assume you value highly. Get on board with the undertalk and overproduce that you promised or get ready to board the lifeboat.

Sincerely,
Ishmael

[Eeyore]

I just hate the hypocrisy of it all FSG preaching prudence and long term planning .Whilst firing people left right and centre on both sides of the pond. There reaction to any setback is a ridiculous overreaction. The fans are acussed of being knee jerk but it is FSG who have had a year zero at both their Clubs in the last year. It is FSG who have fired Tito , Epstein and Dalglish it is FSG who keep having mass clear outs of players.

How can you continually make such rash short term decisions and then ask for patience. They seem totally incapable or unwilling to bother trying to sort the wheat from the chaff and that for me us a frightening prospect.

[shockwave_dave]

Something went wrong it must have been the rush to get rid.

Tony Barrett ‏@TonyBarretTimes

a £1 million loan fee for Carroll? Six years ago #LFC got a £2.5m loan fee for Scott Carson! Bad business whatever way you look at it

I'd imagine that January recall option would lower any loan fee. Plus it may be dependent on any final fee, should they have an option to buy

[Live in the Now]

Will preface this by stating I'm anything but an FSG backer. They didn't fire Epstein. He wanted a job as President in Chicago and took it.

As for Francona...

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/30/report-red-sox-pitchers-drank-beer-during-games-on-their-off-days/

So they took care of it.

[shelovesyou]

I just hate the hypocrisy of it all FSG preaching prudence and long term planning .Whilst firing people left right and centre on both sides of the pond. There reaction to any setback is a ridiculous overreaction. The fans are acussed of being knee jerk but it is FSG who have had a year zero at both their Clubs in the last year. It is FSG who have fired Tito , Epstein and Dalglish it is FSG who keep having mass clear outs of players.

How can you continually make such rash short term decisions and then ask for patience. They seem totally incapable or unwilling to bother trying to sort the wheat from the chaff and that for me us a frightening prospect.

You MIGHT argue and im not personally but playing devils etc etc, that they have made mistakes but the long term plan is what they want and are aiming for, sometimes to be successful you need to make mistakes.

[eddymunster]

Wow - 1 million loan fee ha ha and we let him go for that without a replacement.

It was bad business letting Adam & Carroll go knowing full well we were in the EL both players should of stayed until the Jan window at least. Thought Rodgers acted very navie during the window.

Kuyt, Bellamy, Fabio, Maxi had already left.

Bad business..No excuses.

That may be bad business in your eyes but compare their combined contribution to their combined wages of what is quite possibly well in excess of 15million a year.

Seeing as everyone is up in arms about lack of a striker, what was there combined league goals total last year?

Unfortunately it appears in order to move forward we must get more value from our players.

[Harinder]

Will preface this by stating I'm anything but an FSG backer. They didn't fire Epstein. He wanted a job as President in Chicago and took it.

As for Francona...

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/30/report-red-sox-pitchers-drank-beer-during-games-on-their-off-days/

So they took care of it.

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/03/is-valentines-end-nigh-john-henry-ben-cherington-fly-to-seattle/

The link to this page came from the link above... The Star Wars reference is great