Author Topic: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans  (Read 164842 times)

Offline Smudgester

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Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #40 on: September 3, 2012, 08:34:17 pm »
One thing that shines through Henry's letter clearly for all to see if that FSG truly believe that FFP will be implemented and adhered to.

I can see Arsenal and Man U hoping they are right.

Offline gandalf50

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #41 on: September 3, 2012, 08:34:40 pm »
I though this was a great post for someone like me who does get the jargon around finances.

Saul claims they have made us into a real smooth machine in the moneyrooms, but now need to translate that to the pitch.

Seems important here.


He may be right about them wanting to flip the club. But it may be down to how poorly the Red Sox have performed since they bought LFC.
Maybe they think they have bitten off more than they can chew and want to pull back to what they know.
There really isn't.  I think a lot of us, even our own have started doubting it. It's time to rise up. And take what is rightfully ours. It's a big mountain, but what is the point in achieving something, which everyone can?

Fate has given us a mountain too big. We have to rise. We have to believe.

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #42 on: September 3, 2012, 08:34:42 pm »
if you think about it City have made some bad buys as well, but the money they have allows this to be rectified and perhaps hidden easier than for us, and that is the difference,  in the end what i meant is i dont want owners who can buy a fantasy football team, i want a well run club.

I want a well run club too. Like how it was between 2005-2007. A brilliant manager who instantly makes a big difference on a small budget, coupled with good support from the board. I like BR but I'm not sure this whole '2015 before back into top 4 contention' and the acceptance of mid table/bottom 10 I keep reading about was in any of our plans a few months ago. That's a massive leap of faith to take. It may never happen.

Offline Guz-kop

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #43 on: September 3, 2012, 08:35:01 pm »
"Certainly" - but you said yourself mate "there are so many imponderables that the wisest course for a disappointed Liverpool fan is to hold fire until we know more". That strictly in relation to deadline day, of course, but again, what makes you certain they're not passively dawdling along, only reacting when the PR goblin rears its head? Because that's the consistent evidence, and it's borne out over a far longer period than just this last week, and is not restricted to LFC.

Regardless, Fulham may well have been irrational in their negotiating stance, but why were LFC people there in the first place if the asking price was never going to be agreed in the first place? The simple answer is to surmise that our men on the ground either didn't know FSG's criteria, or had been given vague guidance as to how the process should work. Otherwise they'd long since have explored other, younger alternatives.

That hints at poor communication and process behind the scenes, something they knew about on day 1, yet haven't addressed with a competent CEO, instead Peter Principle-ing a salesman into a role he's ill-equipped to perform (something painfully illustrated by the Suarez business last season).

So yes, slumber. A context where glaring problems stare them in the face (repeatedly), where solutions are available, but where they take no action unless an incident causes enough of a PR kerfuffle for them to "write an open letter", or whatever else.

For me I see no evidence of a joined up plan, not here or at the Red Sox. That doesn't tally with their reputation. They seem nice enough and I'm sure they want to win, but they're not nearly interventionist and involved enough to nip problems in the bid and plan sensibly.

That goes way beyond this last week - people have been making the same consistent point for a long time now - there's nothing knee jerk about it. Team, structure, staff and stadium. They don't know whether they're coming or going.

All it takes is some simple common sense.

All absolutely right as well and needs to be addressed in the next 2-3 months in terms of bringing in somone who can mix the financial and football side of things closely and work with Rodgers to take us forward long term.
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Offline JCM

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #44 on: September 3, 2012, 08:35:07 pm »
All the talk in the world does not get away from the simple fact that the club was crying out for a striker (our major deficiency last season) and they fucked it up, having the best part of year to get it right.  Using their own language that's corporate negligence.

Lurching from one disaster to another will continue aslong as there is no one in charge - they can't do it because they don't know how - so sort it out and get a CEO to run the fucking club

They don't get any respect from me untill they address this problem
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Offline Spraynard Kruger

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Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #45 on: September 3, 2012, 08:35:54 pm »
The thing about FSG's ownership thus far is that both the supporters and skeptics have enough ammunition to argue their feelings. I'm definitely a supporter, but I get the skeptics, especially after being burnt so hard before by the previous owners.

They saved us from Hicks and Gillett, we've already won more trophies under them than we did under H&G, they've shown progress in alternative sources of revenue such as the Warrior deal and having a bigger cut on merchandise. They've said the right things about wanting to be here long term, rebuilding the club into one that can compete and win multiple championships. Any worry about them simply pocketing profits can be counterargued by the fact that they are at the heart of it a sports investment group, and what they claim they wish to do with Liverpool they have indeed done already with the Boston Red Sox. Our 22 year Premier League title drought and three year CL drought is nothing compared to the Red Sox who had went 86 years without a World Series title. They've won two now since FSG's purchase of the club in 2002.

But there's also the unceremonious firing of Dalglish, lack of progress on a stadium, the poor handling of the Suarez affair, the appearance of wavering when it came to a new appointment, and the appearance of investment inconsistency... 20m for Downing last year but unwilling to increase a bid on deadline day by 1-2m to get Dempsey? And even if you believe their ambitions are genuine, do they even have the means to do it? MLB baseball and European club football are two totally different animals. And frankly, you also get the sense that they really didn't quite know what they were getting themselves into when they bought the club. The lack of depth in the squad, the absurd wages, the difficulty it was going to take to make progress on the stadium. They had to take an enormous hit on the H&G stadium plans, 50m for a piece of paper. There's reasons to be skeptical.

And even if you support wholeheartedly their project and understand it's going to take time, a complete revamping of the wage bill, more value-for-dollar, more investments in youth and less in players that can help immediately. It's difficult to buy into this with patience while we seemingly grow further apart from our competition.

It certainly hasn't been perfect. But for me, so long as they're willing to genuinely push towards their goal, I'm willing to show them the patience. Sure, they've made mistakes along the way and they'll make even more. But the ends they're pushing towards: a financially sustainable model, a young, deep and talented squad that can compete on multiple fronts, a philosophy rooted in playing progressive and attractive football... that's everything we could possibly want. It's something to believe in, something to hope for after nearly falling into administration. And even if it's not going to be as easy as snapping fingers and making it happen, and possibly may take a few years yet, I'm going to support it. There's hope in this.
« Last Edit: September 3, 2012, 08:37:58 pm by Spraynard Kruger »
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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #46 on: September 3, 2012, 08:37:13 pm »
That goes way beyond this last week - people have been making the same consistent point for a long time now - there's nothing knee jerk about it. Team, structure, staff and stadium. They don't know whether they're coming or going.

All it takes is some simple common sense.

Great post and in my view this is the most important part of it. Too many people are happy to dismiss any criticism with sarcastic remarks like "Yeah, now we've lost Segura the whole club will crumble" or one liners like "All that anger because we didn't sign Clint Dempsey". In my view, this isn't about individuals or isolated events, it's about what has been going on at the club in the past two years since the takeover. And in my view, we haven't improved at all from where we started out except that we've lost some capable footballing-people along the way. To be honest, I'm sick of hearing how everything will be fine in the future, once that new structure is in place or once all the people we want are at the club, because I have seen nothing that suggests the club is trying to change anything. All we've had is announcements of how great everything will be. In that open letter John Henry is going on about how "we are close to having the system we need in place", but I still don't see any signs of it. What I see is Ian Ayre basically running everything with a little help from Jen Chang.

I've said it loads of times already, but we need to be clever, if we can't compete with the other clubs financially. What we're doing is the opposite of being clever. All summer long we have been shipping out attacking players, but have not brought in an adequate amount of replacements. That has nothing to do with the final day or even the final week of the transfer-window. It just looks like we didn't do our job in June, July or August. We were able to get Borini pretty early. We got Allen at the start of August. Why weren't we able to secure Dempsey or any other attacker at a similar time, when it was pretty clear that Andy Carroll wasn't in Rodgers's plans? I know that this might have depended on other deals happening, but still, why didn't we give ourselves options and left it all until the end of the window? These are the things that worry me. We've had similar stuff happen under Coco and the mantra was "Once he's gone this will get better". It didn't. And what's shocking is that FSG have that image of being smart people. Well IMO, they haven't really shown that at Liverpool FC so far...

Offline flinner

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #47 on: September 3, 2012, 08:38:52 pm »
Well whatever has been said and done i think we should close this chapter for the mean time and move on, because to be honest there's fuck all we can do about it.  The team is going through a difficult phase at the moment and the last thing they need is all this negativity that's surrounding the club once again.

Time will tell about FSG.
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Offline gandalf50

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #48 on: September 3, 2012, 08:39:36 pm »
Great OP, well worth the read!!

But one thing that gets me everytime I read about FSG, Kennys' sacking and now Rodgers, lack of higher level management in place, is why didn't they at least contact or consider Rafa, after Roys' or Kennys' departure, from were I see it, is that they've basically rolled over, given BR all the control and to a relatively inexperienced manager for a club our size, it's all fair saying people need a chance, and managers need to be backed with money & power.

But then why discount the man/manager that is Rafa, if you're going to afford someone like BR the reigns to our beloved club??

By the way this isn't a sentiment based rant, or Rafa love in, more a broad question as to why he wasn't consulted/considered??
Because Ayre and Purslow hated Rafa with a passion. Simples
There really isn't.  I think a lot of us, even our own have started doubting it. It's time to rise up. And take what is rightfully ours. It's a big mountain, but what is the point in achieving something, which everyone can?

Fate has given us a mountain too big. We have to rise. We have to believe.

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Offline Les Willis

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Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #49 on: September 3, 2012, 08:40:48 pm »
A good post that sums up my feelings a lot more eloquently than I could have put them.

Offline Torpedo Tommy

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Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #50 on: September 3, 2012, 08:41:21 pm »
Combine Hij's post with RoyHendo's and you pretty much have my opinion summed up.

I for one want LFC to be self sufficient.  If we can get to the point where we can rake in £40m and reinvest £30-£35m pound then, assuming we are challenging for titles the other £5-10m can happily fall into FSG's pocket for me (numbers for illustration purposes only).  After all, a successful club is what we all want isn't it?  So yep, the window hasn't been unsuccessful - but the deadline day was a complete embarrassment.

The transfer deadline day isn't the first gaff in my view.  It is one of a growing list.  The Suarez affair is the top of the list for obvious reasons but if you bisect it, it isn't just one issue.  Firstly the club knew straight after the match that there was a problem.  On something so sensitive it is immediate action that is needed - so who had a decision to make and didn't make it?  We didn't get our house in order and Luis was charged.

A chance to bolt down the hatches and take stock?  No - we decide to make stance!  The problem is that this stance is immediate and has obviously not been considered so we've failed to act properly again.  Having failed to take appropriate action we remain firmly behind Luis....but are forced to eat humble pie whilst still maintaining our stance.  Nothing wrong with the stance - but with no (proper) legal advice?  Over two months pass and we fail to consider matters and possibly get a damage limitation quest in place.

The hand shake compounded matters.  We have the option to request dropping the handshake - but nobody take that decision.  The we say and do nothing about the process of the handshake being changed.  Then we send Kenny out in front of the camera's, obviously seething, seemingly unaware and definitely unprepared.

Ok, some of these are quite minor:

The 39th 'round' of game
Owning TV rights within clubs
Sacking Kenny
The handling of the managers appointment
The documentary on C5
Aggressively touting our own players
Announcing a signing that we can't afford
Have the lad declare his intent to join Liverpool
Allow our Manager (their own man!) to announce his belief that new signings would be made

Not only is it un-Liverpool-like, it is not the way any club should be seen to be run.

I agree that a football man is needed to run the club but, come on?  Anyone with above average intelligence would have avoided most if not all of those.  It isn't rocket science - it's blatant common sense.  Anyone at Director level should have at least considered the repercussions?  Where is the communication?  How can we get the left hand knowing what the right hand is doing?

Our image has been dragged through the shit in the last 12 months and our actions recently have done nothing to enhance that.

So totally agree, for me its less about the money and more about the way we are run.  Whoever is culpable for the Friday night Fiasco needs dealing with appropriately.  They could very well have set this club back a number of years in our quest to be where we want to be.

Offline Smug Cassandra

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #51 on: September 3, 2012, 08:42:21 pm »
I think off the pitch FSG have been great. Standard Chatered, Warrior, Chevrolet etc etc. On the pitch and with the playing related staff they have made stupid mistakes, high profile because we are Liverpool. I like the concept they are bringing in but I think they should invest more to get it started. Giving Comoli and Kenny that money was stupid but I am sure they have learnt.

FSG are a great alternative to petro $'s. I for one dont want petro $'s at LFC. I want their vision to work. Transfer window was a fuck up. Some process or some person is responsible. They either lear or get sacked, its that simple.

I'll give them 2 more seasons - afteralll they saved us from going bankrupt under massive debt. So happy to give them more time.
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Offline GBF

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #52 on: September 3, 2012, 08:43:35 pm »
Say what you want, what he said has been just hot air since he bought us.  3 managers, no organisation in the management structure, no stadium, increase in ticket prices and corporate areas, keep banging on about the long term without a time frame and a grey area for the short term strategies.  For someone who is involve in sports (Red Sox) for a considerable amount of time he keep making those mistakes and still making it. 

Easy to say Comolli failed but if Henry had employed a recognised DoF or Technical Director at that time, I dont think Comolli would have been anywhere near the club.  He is repeating the same thing now by putting a business manager to buy players

Just another Randy Lerner Ill wait for January window to remove the strikethrough
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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #53 on: September 3, 2012, 08:43:56 pm »
I agree with much of the OP, as should most - particularly the last paragraph - but that is where I see an important contradiction, not just in Hij's post, but in Henry's letter, in the sacking of Kenny - the words about vision and having a clear plan etc.

They gave Rodgers a 3 year contract. They've buggered up his first year completely, so much so that 4th and then Champions League is almost certainly 2 (+) or more years away and then they'll be doing what? Weighing things up again? Do they then reassess?

They sacked Kenny after winning a cup and getting to another final - the FA Cup Final, and brought in their 'number one choice' in Rodgers, and gave him 3 years. Not exactly a ringing endorsement is it?

So they've failed to bring in a striker - I like a plum thought we'd be moving Carroll on loan possibly to bring in TWO strikers, not just Dempsey - because we need to find 20 more goals than last year - but shit! We didn't bring in one! What sort of vision is that all about? What sort of strong vision allows us to go into the season with arguably, no strikers. And if we do have one in Suarez... where's the others really?

How do Suarez and Gerrard feel on the morning of a game now? They're under pressure aren't they - they look around and they know that they need to score the goals - and they were affected yesterday - no question for me - the whole team were. Sahin?... what was he thinking out there? Sold one thing -sold a big masterplan - after all he gave up the opportunity of CL football and a year living in London - but gets given something entirely different. Is he really gonna think about staying here? Does he feel as if he's sitting on the right train or does he see a club a tier behind in the transitional stage?

Cutting off the nose to spite the face will do nobody any good. Won't do the club any good, won't do Rodgers any good, won't do the younger players any good - but at least they can be sold on.

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #54 on: September 3, 2012, 08:44:53 pm »
And what would mancini's opinion be if they hadn't spunked about £50m on transfers last Friday? Why on earth does a club with the financial clout and obvious draw to new players wait until the final day to do all that business? You can't just "disregard" the money.

I can because it's irrelevant to the point I'm making. I'm specifically referring to the hiring and firing of Kenny and Comolli, the dismissal of numerous other staff members throughout the summer, the apparent need for a Dof which was quickly dismissed, the lack of operational people Brendan alluded to over the weekend, uncertainty over the stadium all point to owners who despite knowing where they want to get to really haven't a clue how to go about it. As I said in my previous post, we're two years into their tenure and we're starting all over again with no signs of progress, i personally find it very worrying as I've no idea what direction the club is headed.
« Last Edit: September 3, 2012, 08:52:11 pm by DangerScouse »

Offline Spraynard Kruger

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Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #55 on: September 3, 2012, 08:46:20 pm »
Thinking about it, this transfer window is a pretty accurate symbol of what FSG's tenure has been like. Some good moves happen where there appears to be a solid and encouraging plan in mind that is eventually mired by one major fuck-up that brings everything into question.
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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #56 on: September 3, 2012, 08:48:52 pm »
Some people just can't accept that the long game is the one FSG want to play. They might accept that for all of 5 mins but it'll only take a shitty loss down the line somewhere, rational thinking flys out the window, and Mr. Whopper will be flying off the handle again.

The scary thing for me (and has been voiced by many) is we have Henry and Werner in charge over in Boston in a 'hands-off' style of running the club and then directly underneath we've got Ayre and then straight to Rodgers over in this country. That's our hierachy. Rodgers aside, we have no real 'football' men making day-to-day decisions and keeping the clubs vision on track. We have Ayre, commercial deals aside, doesn't seem to know his arse from his elbow when it comes to proper football decisions that benefit the club, just look at the new manager search for one , which was questionable at best. Then the deadline day fiasco he must answer for in some capacity. Fucking scary the power this fella has.

But what you're saying in the second paragraph is what a lot of people are concerned about. And it has nothing to do with what you're saying in your first sentence. In fact, it's the complete opposite, because having someone who "knows football" in charge, would at least give me the impression they are trying to do something in the long run. So far, we haven't seen any effort in that respect. There has been enough time to get that done, but for some reason they haven't. That's what's worrying me, because if I'm in charge of business I have no clue about, I'll get someone who does to run it for me. I don't just let it go on infinitely, looking through the window every other month. As people have said, FSG seem to have some sort of advisor. Why not put him in charge of the club, or if he can't why not ask him for someone who has experience in running a football club. We're Liverpool FC, so how hard can that be? Yet, while we are waiting for something like that, we'll continue being run like a small-time business that can't afford proper management instead of a company that has millions of pounds at its disposal. I just don't understand that...

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #57 on: September 3, 2012, 08:50:23 pm »
It's a choice between cock-up and conspiracy.

But it's a chronic repeating pattern they could fix by simply engaging with the problems and engaging their common sense. JP's the man we need in this debate.

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #58 on: September 3, 2012, 08:51:58 pm »
Say what you want, what he said has been just hot air since he bought us.  3 managers, no organisation in the management structure, no stadium, increase in ticket prices and corporate areas, keep banging on about the long term without a time frame and a grey area for the short term strategies.  For someone who is involve in sports (Red Sox) for a considerable amount of time he keep making those mistakes and still making it. 

Easy to say Comolli failed but if Henry had employed a recognised DoF or Technical Director at that time, I dont think Comolli would have been anywhere near the club.  He is repeating the same thing now by putting a business manager to buy players

Just another Randy Lerner Ill wait for January window to remove the strikethrough

It's hard to not be suspicious that it could just more hot air. I guess we have no choice but to see where we are in 2 years. Hopefully we would be showing serious signs of progress and not just on the same level as Aston Villa with a Randy Lerner carbon copy owner.

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #59 on: September 3, 2012, 08:53:05 pm »

This all comes back to a point made many times by many posters: the club needs a strong CEO in the UK with the power to make decisions and sanction expenditure.


Got to agree with that.

Although he doesn't necessarily need the in depth knowledge of the game that many are suggesting (which might even be counter-productive), especially with a manager with as strong a set of ideas about how the game should be played as Brendan Rodgers.

After all, this man's football knowledge was limited when he took over. The other skills detailed in his obituary are what we're crying out for.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/sir-john-smith--obituaries-1571126.html

Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #60 on: September 3, 2012, 08:54:38 pm »
Ultimately I believe the problem lies with one person - Ian Ayre. As a businessman and finance expert he is very good at this job, but when it comes to football he's a fool who in my opinion is way out of his depth. I sensed this a while back, especially in the fallout of the Suarez saga with Ayre playing the Billy Big Bollocks and issuing statements.

We need a figurehead as CEO who knows the English game, a sensible, but powerful person who is no pushover, someone highly experienced working in a big club. If we can/want to get one remains to be seen.

I sort of agree with this that Ayre is potentially somewhat out of his depth. But as far as this repeated notion of football experience being a prerequisite for a leadership role within the club, it is a nice idea on paper, but  has often not necessarily been the case at some of the more successful clubs in recent years, although one could argue it would certainly help. In recent years, many CEOs and chairmen have a background in either consulting or entrepreneurship with limited experiences working in football.

David Dein for instance was an importer who ended up buying shares in Arsenal that got him into football circles. Adriano Galliani had a torrid time in an executive role at lowly Monza and only ended up being snapped up by Milan, because he supplied electronic components to Berlusconi's media companies and Berlusconi liked his tough approach to sales and business. Rick Parry was a management consultant who oversaw the development of  the Premier League and was its Chief Executive. David Gill was an accountant and finance director before taking on a similar role at Manchester United. His predecessor Peter Kenyon was a director at Umbro. Daniel Levy was a managing director, who acquired limited experience on the board at Rangers due to Joe Lewis' stake in the Scottish club.

None had a vast wealth of experience in football, other than a casual interest in the game before they took on responsibilities pertaining to the game. I think the issue here is what that individual should be doing. Has Ayre overextended his abilities and entered into an area his talents are not best served? Possibly. I think perhaps long-term, we will see a move for a CEO, but it will likely be an individual who has a wealth of experience in areas other than football. That was likely to be the case whether the owners were from Boston or Bootle. It's a fact of the modern game. What would best service us in that area is probably someone who can identify talented people who can move us forward and possesses a personality forceful enough to interject in club affairs when required, but humble enough to understand when to recede to the background.

Offline Marty 85

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #61 on: September 3, 2012, 08:56:07 pm »
All the talk in the world does not get away from the simple fact that the club was crying out for a striker (our major deficiency last season) and they fucked it up, having the best part of year to get it right.  Using their own language that's corporate negligence.

Lurching from one disaster to another will continue aslong as there is no one in charge - they can't do it because they don't know how - so sort it out and get a CEO to run the fucking club

They don't get any respect from me untill they address this problem


My sentiments exactly.

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #62 on: September 3, 2012, 08:56:23 pm »
The biggest problem for me personally is that FSG came in and asked us not judge then on their words but to judge them on their actions. Now they are in a mess because of their actions they are going all Tory on us and trying to blame the last incumbents. Whilst at the same time asking us to now trust their words.

The Club should of been debt free when they took over and they inherited a bloody good first 11 and some highly promising young players . They have badly mismanaged the Club because of lack of knowledge and quite simply continue to make stupid basic errors as deadline day showed. They need to wise up or sell up for me.
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Offline Danny_

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #63 on: September 3, 2012, 09:02:06 pm »
I've no problem with FSG not paying 7 million for Dempsey.  Personally, I don't think he is worth that and we shouldn't pay over the odds for a player.  We don't have to - we didn't in the Rafa era and I am glad that there has been a return to a common sense approach.  20 million for Downing and 35 million for Carroll was absolute insanity. 

However, the problem I have is that we had the whole summer to find a replacement for Torres and we failed.  We are now heading into another season with the worst problem from last season still unresolved.  It should have been priority no.1 - Other than the goalkeeper position, having a striker that can score goals is the most important position in the team.  Look at what Van Persie did for the scum yesterday.  He turned a loss into a win and he'll do that for them about 4 or 5 more times at least during the season.  We, on the other hand, will lose or draw an extra five games (minimum) because we don't have a clinical striker.  It's that simple.  And if either Borini or Suarez gets injured, we are in the shit. 

So, was the summer transfer window a failure?  In some ways, no - we brought in a fantastic player in Allen and Assaidi and Borini look like they might be good buys but we failed in solving our biggest problem.   We'll see what kind of price we pay for this over the season. 
« Last Edit: September 3, 2012, 09:05:55 pm by Danny_ »

Offline Cochise

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #64 on: September 3, 2012, 09:09:26 pm »
Great OP. I'm in the 'lets give FSG more time camp'.
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Offline eAyeAddio

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #65 on: September 3, 2012, 09:09:56 pm »
.... someone who can identify talented people who can move us forward and possesses a personality forceful enough to interject in club affairs when required, but humble enough to understand when to recede to the background.......

Or, in other words, Brian Barwick.... :)
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Offline Cid

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Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #66 on: September 3, 2012, 09:12:44 pm »
Entire windows without a single signing.
The squad left with gaping holes at the ending of multiple windows.
The team stripped to the bare bones in personnel.
Money pissed away on average players.
Top players sold.
No stadium progress.
3 managers in 3 seasons.
Massive sponsorship increases not reflected in transfer budgets.

Fsg said judge them by their actions. All they've delivered is nice words.

Offline Welsh Dragon

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Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #67 on: September 3, 2012, 09:13:42 pm »
Have I come to the right place? Way too much sense being written here.

Fantastic OP - Thanks.

My feelings. I don't expect everyone to agree...

Too much dwelling on the past, not that our past shouldn't be celebrated, but we need to learn to live for today. I've struggled to come to terms with the current predicament we are in, but now, for the first time in my life I have to concede we are no longer the club we were. I never thought I'd be saying this but a mid-table finish this season would be acceptable for me. For a long time I have been deluded, blinded by my love for this football club. My ambitions and expectations are now grounded and I understand this is going to be a long, slow building process.

It's time to stick together. The words "you'll never walk alone" have, for me, never been so important. It's time we all stick together, get behind the owners, get behind our manager, get behind our team and most importantly get behind the club.
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Offline LiamG

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #68 on: September 3, 2012, 09:13:44 pm »
They want us to be like Arsenal and how they are run, Problem is Arsenal have been consistently in the top 4 for 15 years now? We need that initial investment to get us back there

Offline Fuson

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #69 on: September 3, 2012, 09:14:41 pm »
They want us to be like Arsenal and how they are run, Problem is Arsenal have been consistently in the top 4 for 15 years now? We need that initial investment to get us back there

Wait, what? Really?

Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #70 on: September 3, 2012, 09:15:11 pm »
Or, in other words, Brian Barwick.... :)

Possibly. But he even is not prone to gaffes, such as his aborted recruitment of Scolari for the England job. Parry had loads of "football experience" compared to others, yet his antics prevented us from getting many a signing (Vidic, Dani Alves, Malouda etc etc)
« Last Edit: September 3, 2012, 09:18:12 pm by rafathegaffa83 »

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Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #71 on: September 3, 2012, 09:16:11 pm »
One thing that shines through Henry's letter clearly for all to see if that FSG truly believe that FFP will be implemented and adhered to.

I can see Arsenal and Man U hoping they are right.

See this is what is making me very nervous about all of this. This definate belief that it will all go ahead, with the biggest respect since when has common sense and football walked hand in hand? I don't like the way that we have put all our eggs in the one basket. It's a risky approach at the best of times. While I know that football clubs should be living within their means, no sensible person would disagree with that, making it actually happen is a very different matter. I remain sceptical as to whether it will, and even more so as to everyone following it by the book.

In the same way that I feel Brendan needs to be more pragmatic in his approach on the field, I would prefer FSG did likewise in their plans. As I don't think the way our squad is now, has left us in a healthy state to deal with the everyday problems that occur within a football season, ie suspension, loss of form and injuries.  I can just see us being sucked into a fight at the wrong end of the table, and being unable to deal with it.
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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #72 on: September 3, 2012, 09:22:25 pm »
I think right now we get sidetracked about Dempsey its not whether he would have been good enough it is the fact that Rodgers and Ayre appeared to have had no understanding of where each others position were with these deals, it is no communication and total misunderstanding between that was the problem for me.
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Offline MC14

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Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #73 on: September 3, 2012, 09:23:58 pm »
Good Read, I just hope we can sway from this modern approach to football where if a manager loses a couple of games he should be sacked, and in our case it's  going to take a long time for us to recover from the last 3 seasons, Brendan has certainly got some Ball accepting the challenge, and I respect him for making the risks and changes, I trust him and will back him, I think the subtle differences show he's determined to get this club to its former glory, I mean the red nets got me excited. Be prepared for a hell of a rollercoaster this season, let's hope we reach our desired destination :champ

Offline Simon C

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #74 on: September 3, 2012, 09:30:10 pm »
Entire windows without a single signing - Which window is that then, every window since they took over we have spent and heavily.
The squad left with gaping holes at the ending of multiple windows. - We are short a top goalscorer and a back up keeper
The team stripped to the bare bones in personnel. - They got rid of deadwood that either wasn't good enough (Spearing, Adam etc) didn't want to play Aquilani and where getting past their best (Kuyt & Maxi) The Carroll loan is a debacle end off, a big mistake.
Money pissed away on average players. - On players identified by Dalglish and negotiated for by Comoli
Top players sold. - Who Torres who wanted to leave due to unfulfilled promises from the last regime, he's the only one.
No stadium progress. - They have announced we will be staying at Anfield and have drawn up plans to increase the capacity
3 managers in 3 seasons. - Hodgson was a Purslow appointment and a shocking one, Dalglish, they let their hearts rule their heads, he is a legend but he did a poor job of managing the club
Massive sponsorship increases not reflected in transfer budgets. - Because it's getting spent on our massive wage bill that they are cutting.

We need to cut FSG some slack, sure they have made mistakes but which organisations haven't Barclays, Standard Chartered the list is endless. What is important is that the lessons are learnt and the mistake at the end of what was a very good transfer window for us are learnt.

I'm willing to give them the patience that is required  as I feel they have the best interests of the club at heart.

« Last Edit: September 3, 2012, 09:32:49 pm by Simon C »

Offline dernaroy

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #75 on: September 3, 2012, 09:32:30 pm »
The biggest problem for me personally is that FSG came in and asked us not judge then on their words but to judge them on their actions. Now they are in a mess because of their actions they are going all Tory on us and trying to blame the last incumbents. Whilst at the same time asking us to now trust their words.

The Club should of been debt free when they took over and they inherited a bloody good first 11 and some highly promising young players . They have badly mismanaged the Club because of lack of knowledge and quite simply continue to make stupid basic errors as deadline day showed. They need to wise up or sell up for me.

To who?

Edit: You should be careful what you wish for.
« Last Edit: September 3, 2012, 09:35:03 pm by dernaroy »
i admireyour optimism but if you honestly believe we will finish even in the top 6 this year , then you my friend (im at pains to say this ) are deluded.

Offline TALBERT

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #76 on: September 3, 2012, 09:32:36 pm »
The most worrying aspect is the suggestion (largely it seems from the Times' Tony's) of brinkmanship between manager and owners in recent days. That a Sturridge deal was sanctioned but pulled by Rodgers; that Henderson was offered for Dempsey without the backing of the owners; that Carroll was allowed to leave by Rodgers with the idea of forcing the owners hand on another couple of million (or Henderson).


Some of this seems mad

Plus the 3m offer for Dempsey

I reckon the reason we didn't get a forward in was because of the power struggle in the club

Why let Andy go without there being a replacement in place.. It seems fucking ludicrous

So we are basically swapping Andy Carroll for Michael Owen or Emile Heskey...

Yes they have made mistakes, but they are making them over and over again.

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Offline eddymunster

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Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #77 on: September 3, 2012, 09:33:36 pm »
Entire windows without a single signing.
The squad left with gaping holes at the ending of multiple windows.
The team stripped to the bare bones in personnel.
Money pissed away on average players.
Top players sold.
No stadium progress.
3 managers in 3 seasons.
Massive sponsorship increases not reflected in transfer budgets.

Fsg said judge them by their actions. All they've delivered is nice words.

You should be writing for some red top rag.

Although the lack of movement on the stadium is worrying, the vast majority of those issues you point out are hardly entirely the owners fault.

You could quite easily re-write you're post in the opposite tone and make them out to be the perfect owners.
« Last Edit: September 3, 2012, 09:36:24 pm by eddymunster »
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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #78 on: September 3, 2012, 09:35:34 pm »
Have to remain positive, especially in these trying times.
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Offline helmboy_nige

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Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #79 on: September 3, 2012, 09:40:00 pm »
Hij - truly awesome post and says something that should be required reading for all fans (particularly after disappointing defeats).

As with most arguments people get too bogged down in what is essentially an extremist viewpoint.  We were burnt badly by Gillett and Hicks and the result is a fanbase that is unwilling to accept mistakes. I don't believe anyone on here is saying that FSG should just be trusted implicitly, but I do get wound up by the vitriol aimed at them because of perceived failings.

Firstly, we do not know exactly what happened on Friday and as a result we should be careful not to jump the gun and just assume the worst.  FSG have clearly made mistakes be that trusting Comolli or Kenny last window or not trusting Rodgers enough in this window.

Truth is that the rebuilding project was never going to be quick. It's the biggest rebuilding project we've had since Shankly took over in 1959.  This isn't like a new manager taking over and thinking they need to rebuild the squad.  It's a complete change to every aspect of the club.  It's for this reason alone that we simply have to give the board time.

Of course they are not in this to just be benevolent philanthropists who will just pour money in for no return.  However, I do feel that they are owners who want to improve the clubs value to sell us in 10 years or so.  Until that time comes it is not in their interests to just siphon money out of the club.

To improve the clubs value they are targeting getting us back in the CL with a business model that is stable and that taps into other markets abroad to increase revenue.  It sounds cold.  And it is.  We're a business and anyone who thought that a foreign owner wouldn't see us like that is deluded.  We may all dream of a supporter led club, but that can only be a reality once the club is back onto an even keel.  That means a sustainable club that makes a profit each year and can then be pumped into new players.

We should, of course, remain vigilant and question the decision-making of FSG but let's not turn it into a witch-hunt.

In terms of what FSG need to improve, I think their lack of flexibility was clear in this transfer window.  I actually like their desire to slash the wage bill and to stop us being a pushover in the transfer market.  But, sometimes you do have to bend your rules to make some short-term gains.  Friday felt like one of those days were FSGs intransigence shone through.