Author Topic: RAWK Round Table: WBA 3 - 0 Liverpool FC  (Read 42057 times)

Offline jimmyjr86

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Re: RAWK Round Table: WBA 3 - 0 Liverpool FC
« Reply #200 on: August 20, 2012, 06:31:16 pm »
Think the restricting of Johnson by him playing on the left meant we cancelled out both Downing and Borini. When Johnson is down the right flank its where we get most joy as he is he out ball and is adept at carrying the ball into the opposition half. Downing is suited to him overlapping allowing him to come inside or slip in Johnson down the right. It also means Borini can interchange with Suarez and gives us an extra man when the ball is played in from the right.

Now with Johnson on the left we had a lot more play down Borini's side meaning it was Downing who needed to support in the box, which rarely happened. We became a lot more static and West Brom played very deep meaning little space for Gerrard. Who then tried too hard whenever he got the ball.

There were encouraging signs. One of those days when everything seemed to go wrong.

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Re: RAWK Round Table: WBA 3 - 0 Liverpool FC
« Reply #201 on: August 20, 2012, 07:13:27 pm »
We're vulnerable on a quick transition. It'll take time to sort but because the centre backs move wide in possession and the full backs push up into the midfield line, there's a lot of space between and behind the back four if we give it away in deep positions, particularly if it's a horizontal pass.

It will take time to get used to but we have shown vulnerability there, not just against West Brom but also in pre-season.
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Re: RAWK Round Table: WBA 3 - 0 Liverpool FC
« Reply #202 on: August 20, 2012, 07:22:21 pm »
Downings decision making is poor, he just doesn't seem to completely gel with Suarez and Borini at least in this game. We seemed to have trouble with the pitch as well since there were a couple crosses literally into the stands.
We also did not respect this game, in gerrards piece today he straight out said they expected to twat them,  and we especially didn't respect long, Skrtel and Agger did not respect his speed and strength. In addition for angers sending off it was dumb, he could have kept running and long would have had a hard time scoring, given the angles and reinas one on one talent.

The biggest thing though that hasn't been mentioned is losing possession directly after the penalty,
If we had kept possession instead of pumping it up to Suarez immedietly we could have settled down and tried and get something out of it.
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Offline Mr_Shane

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Re: RAWK Round Table: WBA 3 - 0 Liverpool FC
« Reply #203 on: August 20, 2012, 07:24:38 pm »
Mental toughness is certainly a big worry for me though as pointed out by many. Certain things can be changed, managers, tactics, formations even getting a new striker or set of players, but if you dont have that mental toughness, you still cant do well. Just look at Man city. 2-1 down against Southampton came back to win 3-2. same against QPR last season. 2-1 down on the last game of the season, refused to give up and won the title with 2 injury-time goals.

Offline bepoq

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Re: RAWK Round Table: WBA 3 - 0 Liverpool FC
« Reply #204 on: August 20, 2012, 07:29:15 pm »
In my opinion defences play best as a unit. If the CBs are too widely spaced and if the full backs have pressed on then the CBs are exposed by fast counter attacks. I don't think either of our CBs are fast and so they will struggle one-on-one. Lucas is not fast enough to cover nor are our full backs. That means they need to work together and anticipate.

As a CF I loved being one-on-one against a slowish CB. I hated it however when I beat the CB only to find a fast fullback had covered the space behind.

Torres would have a great time sitting on the shoulder just waiting for the ball to be played in behind.......once that happens then our CHs wouldn't catch him.

I don't like seeing systems being played unless they match the players. Either play the system and get the right players or else modify to suit the players.

Jamie will struggle in an open game when a young attacker runs at him with no cover tracking back.....that was happening against WBA at times.

aye, but I think that in this system, that is supposed to be compensated for by careful possession and pressing—that is, between those things, the opposition are only very rarely supposed to get a good look and an open field for passing—it is sort of understood that you leave yourself somewhat open at the back but that they are never in a position to be able to take advantage of it. I suspect getting this right, both on the decision making with the ball (risk) and the team pressing as soon as it is lost, is tricky, and that on Satdee, we got it badly wrong once with our full complement (Gerrard gives ball away, is unwilling or unable to immediately pressure the opposition player, clear pass, penalty), and got nowhere near getting it right a man down, which I suppose is not really that surprising at this early stage. It will take a while, I hope  Rodgers can instil it, and that we can manage it with who we have (or get before the window closes).

Offline Rohit

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Re: RAWK Round Table: WBA 3 - 0 Liverpool FC
« Reply #205 on: August 20, 2012, 07:45:42 pm »
Is Suarez's close control exceptional or does he just have ridiculous levels of balance and unbelievable reflexes, for me half the time the ball looks to be getting away from him. The number of nutmegs sums it up for me how many times does a defender think he is going to get to the ball but Suarez gets their first and nicks it through the defenders legs. He looks far more effective turned and running at people where he is pretty unstoppable. That for me is why he is always dropping off looking for a pocket of space to pick the ball up. That doesn't really fit with what a central striker in a Rodgers team should be doing.

Both Gerrard and Suarez for me try and create a goal scoring opportunity everytime they get on the ball that doesn't really fit with Tiki-taka which for me personally is all about keeping possession for a different number of reasons, from resting on the ball through working the opposition to totally dominating them.

For instance could you see Gerrard or Suarez playing in the Spain team during the last Euro's when they were keeping possession because basically they had to because of their fitness levels. Or would Gerrard have looked for a killer pass and Suarez turned and looked to beat people instead of just shifting the ball to a team mate.

It's not an attack on Gerrard or Suarez for me they are truly world class attacking talents players of the like we are not going to be able to attract. For me we should be making better use of their talents instead of trying to shoehorn them into Rodgers seemingly rigid way of playing. Does Rodgers need to be a wee bit more pragmatic about how we play or does he need to stick to his guns, that for me is going to be a massive conundrum this season.

Away from home especially would we better for instance playing Carroll with the likes of Suarez, Borini and Gerrard playing off him until Rodgers shapes the squad to fit his system. Do we need evolution instead of revolution or are we better going all in with Rodgers methods.

Al mate, you've basically described what Fabregas and Messi give to the current barcelona team. For all of barca's possession and keep ball messi is given the license to run and create at every opportunity he is given the ball. He is the player barca that gives the ball away the most, as he doesn't look to just pass it he looks to create. Fabregas was basically doing what gerrard is doing now at the start of last season, being direct and playing as that second forward of messi. When it works its devastating. Having excellent reflexes and balance go hand in hand with control, otherwise he'd have no control of the ball when he full well knows he has control off it. Suarez knows exactly what he's doing by showing the defender some of the ball and sucking him into make a challenge only to be completely taken out of the game when suarez rolls him or knocks it pass the defender.

For your mention of Luis not being the type of striker brendan wants, I disagree on the whole mate, hell he even Rogers has come out and said he is exactly the sort of forward he wants. Where ball sticks to him when he receives it and is able to give that penetration to the possession game, he is also creative enough when he has the ball for others. The only issue is the flanks, yes pragmatism is needed but even the best manager won't turn downing into a goal scoring or creative threat so we need to bring players in.

With regards to the tiki taka style of play, I don't see us playing that way anyway. I think we'll be playing more like rafa's 08/09 time or the current madrid or look to emulate that style of play. The ability to transition quick in attacks while keep the ball for long periods and maintaining control. Siggurdson at swansea what was whole exactly mate? I didn't see much of him but it looked to me his job was to get on the ball and create aswell as provide the attack from the second line. Isn't that the role gerrard should be playing for us?

Offline G1 Jockey 4(betfair)

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Re: RAWK Round Table: WBA 3 - 0 Liverpool FC
« Reply #206 on: August 20, 2012, 07:46:01 pm »
only way johnson was restricted was because once again we only had one in the box when the ball was out wide when he was on the ball.

that blame can only go to the wide man on the otherside and the attacking midfielder.....go figure who wasnt doing their jobs.
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Offline Sabu Pundit

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Re: RAWK Round Table: WBA 3 - 0 Liverpool FC
« Reply #207 on: August 20, 2012, 07:57:29 pm »
My scouse Libpole is get bladdy nose off Brum Slum club West Bag in 3-0 – that be triple bogey – an’ is snot on. Stiff breeze wot fill are sales after Bata off gigantic Bellend Rashs this FC Gemmill in your Ropey Leak, an’ then are Semi’s Dire Lederhosen, this OPTA mizzen, has Dicks-abated an so the scouse is more breathless than crock-knee Mr Joke Auld after him’s custard merry 2 minit Kammy-hole “oh, me ham stung!” RATS SABU PUNDIT.

For Nou boss, Mr Bentos Rojas, this were bap jism off fire Libpole she made so many boobs plus came over all fanny. He moss get Hughes to a screw tiny that is Parton pass hole off bean the titular litre off Libpole. Bentos now paint fully a Weir we ain’t ship so many gols, am afray to say, for free courtiers offer sanctuary. Rojas half get use the Kronstadt Sammer nation an’ dissentient voice to his red evolutionary style.

Insult off squaw line was egg Sascha bait by FAX of Bag’s manner jeer’s identity as ex Red – this is tee-pee call. Yes, the former Clerk to Canny Sahib, the saucer’s appendage, he no Libpole inside and out he is enema within an’ this rim main a gory arse Vick tree for such Mickey the Mouse Club at lease them still wrecker nice Libpole a Bic clump an’ ain’t right us off in general.

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Offline Bastion Of Invincibility

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Re: RAWK Round Table: WBA 3 - 0 Liverpool FC
« Reply #208 on: August 20, 2012, 07:59:35 pm »
Is Suarez's close control exceptional or does he just have ridiculous levels of balance and unbelievable reflexes, for me half the time the ball looks to be getting away from him. The number of nutmegs sums it up for me how many times does a defender think he is going to get to the ball but Suarez gets their first and nicks it through the defenders legs. He looks far more effective turned and running at people where he is pretty unstoppable. That for me is why he is always dropping off looking for a pocket of space to pick the ball up. That doesn't really fit with what a central striker in a Rodgers team should be doing.

Both Gerrard and Suarez for me try and create a goal scoring opportunity everytime they get on the ball that doesn't really fit with Tiki-taka which for me personally is all about keeping possession for a different number of reasons, from resting on the ball through working the opposition to totally dominating them.

For instance could you see Gerrard or Suarez playing in the Spain team during the last Euro's when they were keeping possession because basically they had to because of their fitness levels. Or would Gerrard have looked for a killer pass and Suarez turned and looked to beat people instead of just shifting the ball to a team mate.

It's not an attack on Gerrard or Suarez for me they are truly world class attacking talents players of the like we are not going to be able to attract. For me we should be making better use of their talents instead of trying to shoehorn them into Rodgers seemingly rigid way of playing. Does Rodgers need to be a wee bit more pragmatic about how we play or does he need to stick to his guns, that for me is going to be a massive conundrum this season.

Away from home especially would we better for instance playing Carroll with the likes of Suarez, Borini and Gerrard playing off him until Rodgers shapes the squad to fit his system. Do we need evolution instead of revolution or are we better going all in with Rodgers methods.

Great observation, Suarez plays fantastically well in the big games against United/Chelsea etc. where the tempo is high and he is running on pure emotion, nutmegging defenders at will. Against packed defenses he's not really the thinking sort of player you need, where off the ball movement is as important as what you do with the ball. Getting the best out of Suarez will go a long way to determining whether Rodgers keeps his job.

Offline Eeyore

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Re: RAWK Round Table: WBA 3 - 0 Liverpool FC
« Reply #209 on: August 20, 2012, 08:23:49 pm »
Al mate, you've basically described what Fabregas and Messi give to the current barcelona team. For all of barca's possession and keep ball messi is given the license to run and create at every opportunity he is given the ball. He is the player barca that gives the ball away the most, as he doesn't look to just pass it he looks to create. Fabregas was basically doing what gerrard is doing now at the start of last season, being direct and playing as that second forward of messi. When it works its devastating. Having excellent reflexes and balance go hand in hand with control, otherwise he'd have no control of the ball when he full well knows he has control off it. Suarez knows exactly what he's doing by showing the defender some of the ball and sucking him into make a challenge only to be completely taken out of the game when suarez rolls him or knocks it pass the defender.

For your mention of Luis not being the type of striker brendan wants, I disagree on the whole mate, hell he even Rogers has come out and said he is exactly the sort of forward he wants. Where ball sticks to him when he receives it and is able to give that penetration to the possession game, he is also creative enough when he has the ball for others. The only issue is the flanks, yes pragmatism is needed but even the best manager won't turn downing into a goal scoring or creative threat so we need to bring players in.

With regards to the tiki taka style of play, I don't see us playing that way anyway. I think we'll be playing more like rafa's 08/09 time or the current madrid or look to emulate that style of play. The ability to transition quick in attacks while keep the ball for long periods and maintaining control. Siggurdson at swansea what was whole exactly mate? I didn't see much of him but it looked to me his job was to get on the ball and create aswell as provide the attack from the second line. Isn't that the role gerrard should be playing for us?

Isn't that a debate about 4231 with a big Striker and 433 with a false 9. In 08/09 we had Torres dumping Vidic on his arse at Old Trafford, out jumping a massive Chelsea defence to score from a corner and generally stretching teams and creating the hole for Gerrard to play in. Suarez is a fantastic player but he isn't a one man strikeforce like Torres he isn't going to rough defenders up and create holes. In fact he is going to do the opposite he is going to drop into the space Gerrard wants to play in. If Suarez isn't going to get free kicks when players go through him then we aren't going to get a foothold in games away from home especially. For me Suarez has played his best football for us when he played off Kuyt and wasn't asked to hold the ball up and got on the ball facing the opposition goal. Against WBA we couldn't keep the ball in the final third and moves kept breaking down when it went up to Suarez and Gerrard.
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Offline tamadic

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Re: RAWK Round Table: WBA 3 - 0 Liverpool FC
« Reply #210 on: August 20, 2012, 08:24:43 pm »
The most disappointing things,
1. Still can't focus completely in 90 mins
2. Can't defense set pieces
3. no pacy winger (or players)
4. no creativity except Suarez
...
I don't know, the trend of Liv managers haven't known how to fix the issues above. It is very worrying. Hope it is just the end of all the issues under BR... and I really hope that he can at least have a season to prove himself.

I don't know much about Assaidi, hope he will be the recent "Newcastle-type" player: cheap but effective.

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Re: RAWK Round Table: WBA 3 - 0 Liverpool FC
« Reply #211 on: August 20, 2012, 08:26:31 pm »
My scouse Libpole is get bladdy nose off Brum Slum club West Bag in 3-0 – that be triple bogey – an’ is snot on. Stiff breeze wot fill are sales after Bata off gigantic Bellend Rashs this FC Gemmill in your Ropey Leak, an’ then are Semi’s Dire Lederhosen, this OPTA mizzen, has Dicks-abated an so the scouse is more breathless than crock-knee Mr Joke Auld after him’s custard merry 2 minit Kammy-hole “oh, me ham stung!” RATS SABU PUNDIT.

For Nou boss, Mr Bentos Rojas, this were bap jism off fire Libpole she made so many boobs plus came over all fanny. He moss get Hughes to a screw tiny that is Parton pass hole off bean the titular litre off Libpole. Bentos now paint fully a Weir we ain’t ship so many gols, am afray to say, for free courtiers offer sanctuary. Rojas half get use the Kronstadt Sammer nation an’ dissentient voice to his red evolutionary style.

Insult off squaw line was egg Sascha bait by FAX of Bag’s manner jeer’s identity as ex Red – this is tee-pee call. Yes, the former Clerk to Canny Sahib, the saucer’s appendage, he no Libpole inside and out he is enema within an’ this rim main a gory arse Vick tree for such Mickey the Mouse Club at lease them still wrecker nice Libpole a Bic clump an’ ain’t right us off in general.

Libpole have third telly-on stallion now - Mr Bad B.O Balony - who done a stinker puff hormones innit an’ more Shedland pony sins dwarf. He got small hoof prints to fill i.e messers Owl-Butthole AquaLunghi an’ Android Designer. New fellow miniature Mr Jewel Aaron maybe Is-Rael deal compere Jordan Hinduson. Mr Loose Wires more impressive in built-up than modem metropolis yet STILL Finnish like village idiot he needing be cooler infanta gaol,  like a Steamer Keane in “Grater’s Cape”. Thank you very much.


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Offline shockwave_dave

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Re: RAWK Round Table: WBA 3 - 0 Liverpool FC
« Reply #212 on: August 20, 2012, 08:26:48 pm »
This may not be the correct thread, but none of the others seemed right either.  I dont want to talk specifically about the West Brom game, but I do have a question about our defensive line generally.  It was very obvious from our trip to America that we would push our FBs up the pitch to provide width and support to our attack.  That leaves our two CBs in a precarious position of having to defend sideline to sideline.  It also seems to put them one-on-one with the opposing CF a lot.  The game away to Gomel highlighted this formation as the #9 for them gave Skrtel fits most of the game.

I'm not sure I have ever seen a team defend with two.  I know that Lucas is supposed to provide Central cover.  I also know that BR likes the Mantra "defend from front".  Can someone more tactically astute talk about this aspect of our team?  I don't recall Barca being this unbalanced defensively.

1) Are our FBs getting too far forward?
2) Lucas is still not match fit.  Did he get pulled too far forward?  Should he have been cover for Agger on the first Penalty.
3) I know Skrtel slipped on the first pen and the second penalty was simply too much indifference on the ball, but was he out of position originally on the first pen?
4) Should our two CBs be playing more narrow?

I love Skrtel and Agger (i'm not going to start saying they are the best in the world).  The one thing that gives me hope is that they are two of our better senior players.  Can't see them both playing this poorly all season.  But I would like some help on their roles in this new formation and where we are going to get some defensive cover.

Thanks for any help.


I think we were certainly very exposed, even with 11 men, on Saturday. For the first penalty, Agger and Skrtel were very far apart. But from memory, wasn't it Gerrard who gave the ball away then made a half-arsed attempt at a trot back? But by that stage the ball was already down the far end of the pitch.

Another example of the width of the two centre backs was when Lukaku made a fool of Carragher and squared to Morrison who ballooned wide. I can't remember off-hand whether or not we lost possession easily in this instance, but i would hazard a guess we did.

It's not unusual for the centre backs to be quite wide apart when we have possession. It's just that when we lose it up front, which is all to common, the counter-attack is wide open to play at. I've a feeling teams know this and look to exploit it. If i can see it, opposition coaches definitely can.

The defense as a team in general was half-arsed on Saturday. For all the talk of copying the Barca pressing model, there certainly wasn't a lot of it on view in that match. A lot of work ahead

Offline redk84

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Re: RAWK Round Table: WBA 3 - 0 Liverpool FC
« Reply #213 on: August 20, 2012, 08:32:53 pm »
Having just finished watching the full match for the first time....felt like i was watching one of the many games last season.

After settling down in the game we dominated posession without looking too dangerous for any considerable length of time.....a couple of half chances and one very good one for Suarez before they scored that undefendable goal when looking pretty toothless prior to that.

id liked to have seen much better movement off the ball than what we showed on the day...it seemed abit lathargic at times and we couldn't find that decisive pass or bit of skill to create many clear openings. Defensively, up until the sending off we seemed sound....not troubled much and pressured West brom well enough i thought.

Its very annoying to have gone behind when we did....and the sending off too....everything went to shit afterwards and we just seem to be incapable of being the team that takes advantage in pivotal moments of the match. The Liverpool that could pick themselves and come back in a game ive hardly seen in recent seasons and so it seems Rodgers will be fighting two battles this season....not only enforcing his own methods tactically but also changing the mindset of these players.

Tough ask but we'll see how we go.....onwards
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Offline Revill

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Re: RAWK Round Table: WBA 3 - 0 Liverpool FC
« Reply #214 on: August 20, 2012, 08:48:35 pm »
The idea of the round table thread is to think things through in a little more depth. If all you're going to do is pop on and tell us "we've got a shite defence", don't post.

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Offline Rohit

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Re: RAWK Round Table: WBA 3 - 0 Liverpool FC
« Reply #215 on: August 20, 2012, 08:56:02 pm »
Isn't that a debate about 4231 with a big Striker and 433 with a false 9. In 08/09 we had Torres dumping Vidic on his arse at Old Trafford, out jumping a massive Chelsea defence to score from a corner and generally stretching teams and creating the hole for Gerrard to play in. Suarez is a fantastic player but he isn't a one man strikeforce like Torres he isn't going to rough defenders up and create holes. In fact he is going to do the opposite he is going to drop into the space Gerrard wants to play in. If Suarez isn't going to get free kicks when players go through him then we aren't going to get a foothold in games away from home especially. For me Suarez has played his best football for us when he played off Kuyt and wasn't asked to hold the ball up and got on the ball facing the opposition goal. Against WBA we couldn't keep the ball in the final third and moves kept breaking down when it went up to Suarez and Gerrard.

Depends what were asking of suarez though mate. For uruguay they play a 4-4-1-1 with forlan of suarez and suarez rarely has to drop deep. He plays a out and out striker for them and it works. Its obvious brendan has told him to drop deep though and against west brom and even the past 2 games when borini has played suarez has played off him. You can more than one player occupy the same position though, city do it well with silva,nasri and tevez occupying the same position so it can work its just they have better players ahead them to make the damage count we don't.

Offline Eeyore

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Re: RAWK Round Table: WBA 3 - 0 Liverpool FC
« Reply #216 on: August 20, 2012, 09:21:40 pm »
Depends what were asking of suarez though mate. For uruguay they play a 4-4-1-1 with forlan of suarez and suarez rarely has to drop deep. He plays a out and out striker for them and it works. Its obvious brendan has told him to drop deep though and against west brom and even the past 2 games when borini has played suarez has played off him. You can more than one player occupy the same position though, city do it well with silva,nasri and tevez occupying the same position so it can work its just they have better players ahead them to make the damage count we don't.

Uruguay purposely play a counter attacking style that allows the likes of Cavani, Forlan and Suarez to get the ball in space though. If Suarez drops off then where does Gerrard get to play. What we have missed for me since 08/09 is a Pacey physical presence up front Swansea had it last year with Graham and despite Uniteds attacking riches they still turn to Wellbeck to provide attacking dynamism and presence.
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Re: RAWK Round Table: WBA 3 - 0 Liverpool FC
« Reply #217 on: August 20, 2012, 09:32:51 pm »
Oh well, she who must be obeyed has invited people to dinner. I'll have to fuck off and pretend to be nice. I hope I don't slide tackle them like Tommy Smith if they go for the last Rochet.
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Re: RAWK Round Table: WBA 3 - 0 Liverpool FC
« Reply #218 on: August 20, 2012, 10:02:34 pm »
If any one of us was managing the team in a game against Barcelona, how would you go about beating them?

Me, I'd wind them up to fuck. I'd have that big daft Geordie lump on a chain. I'd slap and kick him until he was spitting fire. I'd shave he's head and tell him to stick it right on Puyol. I'd tell them... they work hard. You work harder. They come at you. You stand firm... they do not pass. They pass the ball about, you fucking rob it and get it up to the big lump fast as you can, and follow the fucker in. You whack and harry them. You torment the life out of them and scare the shite out of them. You smile, I'll chin you. You don't get cards and do stupid things to get sent off or booked, but you beast the fuck out of them until they submit. You are LFC and you are monsters. Now get out there and scare the living shite out of them.

Sounds ridiculous... well, I suppose, we could try and play football and get battered. As daft and simplistic as that rant sounds, there's many ways to skin a cat. I hope Brendan's got more than one.

 ;D

On a serious note Fat is right - we can play short passing with a pressing game all we want but sometimes you need to mix it up.

We're not Barca and never will be so it's a big ask to turn and get us to play like them.

For it to work we need another forward urgently or this could be one of the worst seasons for a long, long time.

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Re: RAWK Round Table: WBA 3 - 0 Liverpool FC
« Reply #219 on: August 20, 2012, 11:59:04 pm »
;D

On a serious note Fat is right - we can play short passing with a pressing game all we want but sometimes you need to mix it up.

We're not Barca and never will be so it's a big ask to turn and get us to play like them.

For it to work we need another forward urgently or this could be one of the worst seasons for a long, long time.

I suppose you're right. We have a new manager who has a new method and new players. We've given it three or four games, including one away league game where we lost (can you fucking imagine?). I know we used to be known for our patience and rightly so, which is why I don't disagree with you at all in characterising the situation as urgent and forecasting calamity. You've given everyone their chance, been entirely fair on that score. No mistake.

So. Shall we tell the manager to abandon his long term philosophy right now or do we have to wait until we get in his successor? I can wait. It's the Liverpool Way.

Offline WillyWonka

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Re: RAWK Round Table: WBA 3 - 0 Liverpool FC
« Reply #220 on: August 21, 2012, 12:22:06 am »
I think we were certainly very exposed, even with 11 men, on Saturday. For the first penalty, Agger and Skrtel were very far apart. But from memory, wasn't it Gerrard who gave the ball away then made a half-arsed attempt at a trot back? But by that stage the ball was already down the far end of the pitch.

Another example of the width of the two centre backs was when Lukaku made a fool of Carragher and squared to Morrison who ballooned wide. I can't remember off-hand whether or not we lost possession easily in this instance, but i would hazard a guess we did.

It's not unusual for the centre backs to be quite wide apart when we have possession. It's just that when we lose it up front, which is all to common, the counter-attack is wide open to play at. I've a feeling teams know this and look to exploit it. If i can see it, opposition coaches definitely can.

The defense as a team in general was half-arsed on Saturday. For all the talk of copying the Barca pressing model, there certainly wasn't a lot of it on view in that match. A lot of work ahead


I don't think we were exposed. In the first half they created very little, another quick through ball unleashed long and he was fouled by Agger outside the box. Barring that and a few silly errors(first game so wouldn't be to worried about those) I thought we did well defensively. Although with the way we played on Saturday you can see why keeping possession is so important. For the second goal when Gerrard got the ball Martin Kelly made a run past him which left us short at the back and the reason the centre backs were so far apart. Gerrard dummies a pass to Kelly then turns inside and doesn;t even look up before kicking the ball past two liverpool players to a WBA player. It was the killer. When he passed the ball Lucas and Allen were both ahead of him which made it easier to break on us and once sktrel fell over it was game over. I suppose the good news is most mid-table teams don't have a striker with the pace of long to exploit us.

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Re: RAWK Round Table: WBA 3 - 0 Liverpool FC
« Reply #221 on: August 21, 2012, 02:07:10 am »
It's pretty clear that we've still got many of the problems of last season, and they're not going to go away overnight. Even during the first half and start of the second leading up to the penalty when we were generally keeping the ball well, I thought with a few exceptions our off the ball movement in the final third was poor. We only rarely gave ourselves the opportunity to play incisive football; far too often, the man on the ball only had one or two options, and we ended up recycling the ball ad infinitum. Whenever we had a chance to break and catch WBA in transition, our passing was laboured and we constantly gave them the chance to regroup and defend en masse behind the ball. Only Suarez and Allen showed any urgency, and they were our two best performers on the day (despite Luis' profligacy in front of goal). I think what the game showed is that the new system is going to take a while to bed in, and we need to be patient. We got a taste of what it can be like against Gomel at Anfield, albeit against sub-par opposition; the trouble is with the unfamiliarity of it, all it takes is for a few vital cogs to stop working properly and the domino effect starts; suddenly we look all over the place.

The full-backs are key players in this system and the difference between this game and Gomel was a massive gulf - Glen put in a fantastic performance last week, this week on the left he was average; even if you point out he's played well there in the past, he's unarguably better on the right. Kelly contributed nothing going forward and that coupled with Downing doing a textbook disappearing act meant we had absolutely no threat down our right flank. Even when our fullbacks did push forward, most of the time what happened was a quick look up, seeing no movement ahead of them and sending the ball back to our centre-backs. You don't need both fullbacks to be playing like a young Roberto Carlos every game, but you do need them to provide an outlet ball and stretch the play, especially if you're playing a 4-3-3 like ours where both Borini and Downing prefer to tuck in and cut inside. We've all seen games in which Glen has dominated the right flank by himself, and it always adds an extra dimension to our attacking play.

Moving onto our forward line, Borini worked hard on his debut, but got no joy out of their defence wherever he popped up; from what I've seen anyway, he's more someone who will get on the end of moves rather than start them or engineer openings. He's a workhorse, and that's not meant in a derogatory sense. Just look at how much Dirk Kuyt contributed to our cause during his time here, and Borini has every chance of becoming an important player for us; he's already got Dirk beat for pace and technical ability. It was Downing on the other flank we needed a performance from, and as noted already, Downing on the other side was completely abject; picked the safe option every time, looked scared to take on his man and generally just completely bottled it. If you've got two or more players with genuine creativity and unpredictability on the ball, that scares opposition defences and can lead to mistakes; if you've only got one player capable of making things happen on the ball, then it's easy to shut down the whole team if you can stop that man.

This meant that all the responsibility of actually making things happen fell squarely on the shoulders of Luis Suarez, and while he made a good fist of it with some great dribbling, there's only so much one man can do if his supporting cast is average. Luis was literally carrying our attack at times (he did last season as well) and I shudder to think what we'll look like if he picks up a longish spell on the sidelines through injury. I do think this is a contributing factor to his poor finishing in front of goal; anyone who's played football at any level will tell you it doesn't help when there's so much pressure heaped on you to make things happen and I'm convinced it's a contributing factor to his poor finishing. The stattos will tell you he's never had the best conversion rate but even taking that into consideration you'd have to look at last season as a freakish anomaly; Luis has shown he's capable of scoring goals both for Ajax and for Uruguay. It's no coincidence that our first real coherent, bright performance under the new regime came with his return to the team. Of course it didn't help that he got no protection at all from Dowd despite Olsson and Ridgewell manhandling him all game, and I can see that being a recurring theme throughout the season.

This in turn limited us in the middle of the park; Allen was the one real positive to come out of the game for me, he passed the ball well and carried it forward at times to good effect, but was eventually thwarted once again by our lack of intelligent movement in forward positions. Lucas showed his positioning is as good as ever but it will take time for him to get back to the level he was at before his injury; once he gets back into the swing of things I think he'll push on to even greater heights in the new system. Gerrard had a pretty forgettable game, but our total non-performance in wide positions meant it was easy for West Brom to just pack the middle and I thought Jakub and Mulumbu both had excellent games, imposing themselves physically on our midfield. Having said that any time we by-passed them in midfield, once again the lack of movement meant that they could get back and re-position themselves.

Of course, all of the above pertains to the portion of the match prior to the sending off, and the subsequent 2nd penalty; afterwards the game was finished as a competitive spectacle. It was a little disappointing to see how our players heads dropped and we just gave up, but it's also understandable. The only real observation of note to make is that Carragher is neither a fit to the system that Rodgers is trying to implement, nor is he good enough at this level anymore. It feels somewhat disloyal to be talking about a club legend in such terms, but really Coates should be way ahead of him. There were still some positives to take from the first half performance and even at 1-0 down, I thought we could get back into the game and even looked to be on the ascendancy until the sending off. Having said that, I never felt we were in control of the game; while we had more of the ball, West Brom still looked dangerous on the counter and the game could have swung either way even during our brighter spells. As it happens, it went theirs with a wonder goal just before half-time and then the subsequent second half madness. We haven't controlled games with regularity since 08/09 under Rafa with the Alonso/Mascherano axis in midfield, and that is something we will have to learn to do again. I think we're going to have to put up with a lot of inconsistency in the short and medium term; in some games we'll click and look fantastic, but there will be other games like this one and even worse (hopefully not too many), where subtle changes will affect our play disproportionately. The key thing to remember here is that this was our first league game under a young, talented manager who I believe is good enough to identify and rectify the problems that have taken root in the team over the last few seasons of turmoil. Take this as a reality check rather than a reason to panic, and lets move onwards and upwards to the next game.

Offline n00bert

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Re: RAWK Round Table: WBA 3 - 0 Liverpool FC
« Reply #222 on: August 21, 2012, 03:52:33 am »
Looking back at the game I think we actually did pretty well. We were sucker punched by that Gera goal but we completely and utterly bossed the first half. The cute little passes in and around the box, the consant pulling of defenders out of position with good movement is probably what this style of football is about and I thought that there were many nice little exchanges. I think with the quality of players we have it shouldn't be too long before these things eventually net us some goals.

Now on to the bad - like I've said before, the whole pressure thing must be a team effort. We weren't winning the ball back quickly like we did against Gomel and because we didn't exert enough pressure, WBA players had time to pick out some seemingly brilliant passes. To me, the whole idea of pressure is force mistakes and unfortunately we didn't force many that day. In my opinion, what happened was when WBA had the ball, there was so little pressure applied on the person with the ball but everyone still holding a high line, which is suicide. The midfield in this system appears to be closer to the front than to the back so when the ball is played between the midfield and the backline, there is a lot of space for the opponents to exploit.

The bottom line is, if we are going to play with a backline so high up the field, we definitely need to press consistently higher up the field. If we are not pressing, everyone needs to get behind the ball and basically stop them from getting in behind.

Stevie was a bit of a mess, not far enough forward to link well with Luis and not really doing very much in the midfield in terms of incisiveness or distribution. As an idea I think having Stevie up there is the right choice, but I have often felt that he influences games much better when he is the focal point of our game. Right now, he doesn't seem to be getting as many touches of the ball as he used too and so I think he needs to work a bit more on his movement. Nice to see the role Lucas was playing though, getting the ball deep and moving it forward.

I thought that it wasn't a pen and sending off - there was contact but it was so minor (ie no trip, no push, no kick) that it came across as a dive more than a foul. I used to like silly billy philly - now I'm rather peeved. The red card changed the complexion of the game. That said, it was nice to see that we are now a team that would ratehr lose 3-0 chasing a draw than just sitting back and taking a 1-0 loss.

Finally, some have argued that we lack pace, but I think that for this system having fast players is not as important as having strong technical players. The other important criteria for this new Liverpool is good movement. I think for the most part, we have that. It's now about getting the team to achieve results.




Offline Red Reign

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RAWK Round Table: WBA 3 - 0 Liverpool FC
« Reply #223 on: August 21, 2012, 04:09:50 am »
“Just go out and drop a few hand grenades all over the place son.” - Bill Shankly

Offline kred

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Re: RAWK Round Table: WBA 3 - 0 Liverpool FC
« Reply #224 on: August 21, 2012, 07:12:53 am »
1)  Most players are still adapting to the system.
2)  Compounded by selection / positioning error - eg nervy with high back line, Kelly & Johnson caught off guard. 
3)  Need to built some steel into the team. 

There was lots of passing until the send off, but the passing was rather superficial.  There was no fluidity in the team movement.  Often when there is a pass between 2 players, the next one or two players nearby stood and watched.  That does not create option for penetrating nor pulling the shape of opposing team. 
Another example:  WBA harried our defense high up - that is a weakness because their shape is stretched, and a pass going through would take out 3 to 4 players.  But we kept passing the ball sideways under pressure.  A good passing side would sidestep their harrying comfortably. 

On adapting, at least one will never adapt (the one trick pony), so let's not waste games with him.  Give chance to youngsters. 

The team really need to have fighting spirit.  Even if losing,, the team should go down fighting.  You'll earn respect from opponents.  Otherwise they'll know to sucker you till you give up.  A well known saying of the 80s was Liverpool is more dangerous when going behind. 

The club, manager and team need too handle referees more intelligently.  There were a few dubious yellow cards, the captain did not protest, nor did the manager.  We are letting the ref get away easily with bad calls. 

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Re: RAWK Round Table: WBA 3 - 0 Liverpool FC
« Reply #225 on: August 21, 2012, 08:16:23 am »
Bab jisim of fire for Bentos Rojas... Thank fuck, Sabu the man is back.
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Re: RAWK Round Table: WBA 3 - 0 Liverpool FC
« Reply #226 on: August 21, 2012, 08:25:40 am »
I suppose you're right. We have a new manager who has a new method and new players. We've given it three or four games, including one away league game where we lost (can you fucking imagine?). I know we used to be known for our patience and rightly so, which is why I don't disagree with you at all in characterising the situation as urgent and forecasting calamity. You've given everyone their chance, been entirely fair on that score. No mistake.

So. Shall we tell the manager to abandon his long term philosophy right now or do we have to wait until we get in his successor? I can wait. It's the Liverpool Way.
No mate. We give Brendan nothing but support and all the time in the world. But, I stand by this an all... I hope he has more than one plan in mind. Tika-taka at Anfield, brilliant. I can go for that, but I'd like to think we have more than 1 tool in the shed.
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Offline TheCharlatan

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Re: RAWK Round Table: WBA 3 - 0 Liverpool FC
« Reply #227 on: August 21, 2012, 08:34:24 am »
All im going to say is we played a good first half, you can't stop a goal like Gera's. All i hope is Rodgers can learn from our flaws and ameliorate them.

Offline Alf

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Re: RAWK Round Table: WBA 3 - 0 Liverpool FC
« Reply #228 on: August 21, 2012, 08:52:08 am »
I couldn't disagree with anything that Gary Neville said on his analysis after last nights game. We were the better side during the 1st half but a freak of a goal was the difference between. It was like the story of last season we created the chances but couldn't tuck them away. 3 mistakes from each of our centre backs cost us dear during the 2nd half. I disagreed with the 1st two substitutions. I think we should have gone with 3 at the back when Agger went & Joe Cole is spent as a player so would have opted for Sterling. I'm well aware of the style of football that Rodgers likes to play but we've got to work with what we have which is where Andy Carroll comes in.

Offline steveeastend

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Re: RAWK Round Table: WBA 3 - 0 Liverpool FC
« Reply #229 on: August 21, 2012, 09:19:39 am »
All im going to say is we played a good first half, you can't stop a goal like Gera's.

Of course you can, leaving him unmarked like this is a very basic mistake. Our organisation in defending is far from being a finished business, mistakes like this a result of this.
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline ArcticRed

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Re: RAWK Round Table: WBA 3 - 0 Liverpool FC
« Reply #230 on: August 21, 2012, 09:44:54 am »
For some reason, this put me in mind of the Tottenham match last season. Well in the game, squandering chances... then a wonder goal from Modric. A couple of... disputable... referee's decisions later, in a very one sided performance by said referee, and the team crumbles like a stale cookie.
Nevermind the fact that we should've bagged a couple in the first half. Ridgewell, based on the apparent standard of refereeing, should've been sent off for obstructing Borini and we should've had a pen. Not to mention that lanky ass swede in their defence should've walked too at some point.

Hopefully our inability to convert our chances won't be news for BR, and he'll have a plan on how to fix it. I just hope he's not too stubborn to swap to plan B when things are going sideways fast. Was quite baffled at his decision to put Cole on, when their defence was bullying everyone and getting away with it. If ever a game needed big Andy up top, it must've been this one. As for Cole, I reckon that 5 min cameo is better off forgotten. For us and him.

I'm really worried, thought, that the officiating done by Dowd won't be unique. I think we're in for more of the same... and there's especially one of our players who'll be in for the brunt of it.
Dowd might be inept, but on the balance of probabilities, ineptitude would've at least gone somewhat both ways. As it turned out, we came out of a fairly well behaved football match without any ugly incidents, having received 1/6 of the cards given in 10 matches this round. With 11 fouls commited by WB and 12 by us, the card score red 1 yellow to 4/1 red.
As I've probably said before on here... at some point, after a certain amount, coincidences stops being just that.
Sure hope I'm wrong.

Offline steveeastend

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Re: RAWK Round Table: WBA 3 - 0 Liverpool FC
« Reply #231 on: August 21, 2012, 09:48:23 am »
IT'S A FACT, I'M AFRAID !

No our defenders are alright, in contrast our DEFENDING as a unit was not organised enough and the players still getting used to the new system, those three errors being a consequence of that.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2012, 09:52:43 am by steveeastend »
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline steveeastend

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Re: RAWK Round Table: WBA 3 - 0 Liverpool FC
« Reply #232 on: August 21, 2012, 09:50:51 am »
I am little bit worried when it comes to our upcoming fixtures. Two of them will be after only two days break and I just hope we go for proper rotation in order to be able to provide a full fit first eleven. I think this will be crucial considering the early days of Rodgers and the quality of City, Arsenal and ManU...
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline John C

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Re: RAWK Round Table: WBA 3 - 0 Liverpool FC
« Reply #233 on: August 21, 2012, 09:56:04 am »
All im going to say is we played a good first half, you can't stop a goal like Gera's. All i hope is Rodgers can learn from our flaws and ameliorate them.
The keeper can't mate but he may have been unnerved had Borini got out to him a bit quicker instead of avoiding taking a hit off the ball, we'll never know now.
Agger's hesitation was an error also and perhaps Skrtel just dwelling on the ball was.

It was an unfortunate day but don't worry, Hodgson also had a player sent off on his league debut and it all turned out f.........

Offline TheCharlatan

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Re: RAWK Round Table: WBA 3 - 0 Liverpool FC
« Reply #234 on: August 21, 2012, 10:01:19 am »
The keeper can't mate but he may have been unnerved had Borini got out to him a bit quicker instead of avoiding taking a hit off the ball, we'll never know now.
Agger's hesitation was an error also and perhaps Skrtel just dwelling on the ball was.

It was an unfortunate day but don't worry, Hodgson also had a player sent off on his league debut and it all turned out f.........

We panicked after that first goal went in, that explains two pens and a red card in the ensuing minutes. I am not worried about the games to come, provided we get a proven goalscorer I have full confidence in the manager.

Offline TheCharlatan

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Re: RAWK Round Table: WBA 3 - 0 Liverpool FC
« Reply #235 on: August 21, 2012, 10:13:21 am »
We panicked after that first goal went in, that explains two pens and a red card in the ensuing minutes. I am not worried about the games to come, provided we get a proven goalscorer I have full confidence in the manager.

Sorry for the double post, but will clarify by saying the only thing that worried me was our response to the first goal going in and the subsequent clusterfuck in our play both defending (red card, penalties) and going forward. We did not stay true to our style of play and put in more half-arsed crosses from downing when noone was in the box. It was like last year all over again.

Also, I would like to see Robinson play if Enrique is not.

Offline cammier

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Where's the passion?
« Reply #236 on: August 21, 2012, 10:49:20 am »
Many posts covering last season and the WBA match on Sunday have questioned the players and their lack of passion. Many I talk to even put the lack of pride and passion in wearing the red shirt as one of the main reasons Kenny failed last season and he paid the price. Heads went down on Sunday and I for one could not beleive that these highly paid players appeared not to care, I was staggered to see Carroll and Shelvey laughing and joking on the bench while the team was being torn to bits on the field. The heart seems to have been taken out of the club. Much as I hate to say it, I watched the Everton players last night taking Man U to the cleaners. It it had not been for De Gea that could have been a trouncing. The passion shown by the Everton players was a credit to their team, every one of them be they local lads like Osman Baines and Hibbert or imports like Fellaini and Jelavic and the ex Utd players like Neville and Gibson played their hearts out. How I wish we had a fraction of the passion they showed in our team. Isn't it time that the players paid the price for their lack of effort and passion on the pitch by being dropped. Why play Downing? He has been a god-awful flop. Get young Sterling on in his place, one thing for sure, he couldn't do a worse job than Downing. In fact we could do a lot worse than blooding some of our youngsters sooner rather than later, Wenger plays his youngsters at a much earlier age, Fabergas was playing regular first team football at 16! BR needs to get these expensive flops together and preach to them what being a Liverpool player should mean to them, we have the best fans in the country and we have supported the team through thick and thin, time for the players to reflect the passion shown by the fans in their performance on the pitch.

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Re: RAWK Round Table: WBA 3 - 0 Liverpool FC
« Reply #237 on: August 21, 2012, 11:29:57 am »
Quote
This was not what people had expected – certainly not amongst the away section at the Hawthorns. The exorbitance of short-sleeved shirts and shorts seemed a bad choice from the travelling Liverpool contingent: at two o’clock, as the skies turned grey and rain fell over the West Midlands, many wished for a rethink of their choice of attire; at five o’clock, they just wished they had not bothered at all. It was supposed to be the warmest day of the year. It was supposed to be the start of Brendan Rodgers’ Anfield revolution.

The sun eventually shone, but by that time Liverpool were 3-0 behind and withering in the heat. It was a scoreline that perhaps did a disservice to Rodgers’ side though, particularly in the first half. Having produced a controlled performed for 43 minutes - aided by the impressive Joe Allen in midfield - Zoltan Gera’s magnificent strike from 25 yards shifted the balance of the game. Daniel Agger’s red card 12 minutes into the second half and a pair of penalties stopped it dead. The tide had turned with no chance of recovery, both on and off the pitch.

In the stands, optimism swings like a paper pendulum in a hurricane, flitting from side to side with every tackle, pass and goal. The whirlwind of hysteria has already started. With every passing minute that Liverpool remained behind in the game, the more Brendan Rodgers’ appointment became a mistake. It matters not that this game represented just three points of a possible 114 throughout season’s duration, nor the mitigating circumstances dealt by the hand of referee Phil Dowd. In those 90 minutes of football, Liverpool’s fate was sealed, their course unalterable.

The more level-headed supporters recognise that is not the case, as does the manager. “It was a bad day at the office for us, but I thought we showed signs, particularly in the first half, that the players have coped very well with the ideas,” Rodgers told reporters in the post-match press conference. “In the second half when we went down to 10 men, it was difficult for us.”

37 Premier League games still remain; West Bromwich Albion are not preparing for Europe next season just yet and Liverpool won’t be playing Championship football. But Rodgers knows his side must improve over the course of those 37 games - and soon, with Liverpool hosting last season’s top three in their first three games at Anfield.

Rodgers will know the issues his side faced in the opener against West Brom. He will know the pressing mantra his set-up lives and dies by looked laboured, with Lucas – lacking genuine, intense match practice – flailing in the second half; he will know the defensive high line didn’t quite work at times, with both Agger and Skrtel looking exposed at times and lacking the majesty observers have become accustomed to. Issues from last season were prevalent too: the profligacy in front of goal being the most concerning, with Luis Suarez still proving an attacking enigma, a conundrum yet to be solved.

The complexities of Rodgers’ ideas are hidden at first glance. The notion of retaining possession, and working hard to win it back when it’s relinquished, should be basic principles for most sides with aspirations of success. But the problems in implementing it fully come when the side go a goal behind. As players chase the equaliser, gaps in the pressing appear; Swansea won just seven points after conceding first last season, showing it is a formula Rodgers hasn’t quite solved yet.

Rodgers will know there is room for improvement from himself too, particularly with his substitutions. Joe Cole was the wrong replacement for Lucas, even with hindsight; hindsight isn’t needed to know Cole’s arrival would push Gerrard deeper and nullify what was already a fairly toothless threat. Carragher’s introduction after Agger’s sending off raised eyebrows too - the flexibility and astuteness so well-reported of Rodgers deserting him.

The key for Rodgers is to rectify the defeat. He will know solutions can be found both on the training ground and in the transfer market, but he knows they won’t come easily. The former is in his control and can be worked on over time, something the pragmatic coach will relish the challenge of - but the same cannot be said for the latter. Failure to capture targets such as Nuri Sahin, Theo Walcott and Christian Tello leave Liverpool’s squad short with just 10 days of the transfer window left. It is a squad that still lacks another full back comfortable playing as an auxiliary winger and, more significantly, one that still lacks a goalscorer, be that from out wide or through the centre.

But Rodgers is also a manager who won’t ignore the positives, even in a comprehensive 3-0 defeat. He can take solace from the first 43 minutes, for starters. Joe Allen showed why Rodgers was willing to renege on a gentleman’s agreement with his former club, putting in a performance that belies his 22 years and allays concerns over his ability to perform in the Liverpool midfield; Glen Johnson showed his versatility at left back and promised much for his eventual return to his favoured position; Luis Suarez showed that he is just one final twist of the Rubik’s Cube from being one of the world’s most complete players.

The thing Rodgers got most right on Saturday was his assessment: a bad day at the office indeed - it was Liverpool’s worst day on the opening day since a 6-1 loss to Chelsea in 1937. Yet some would still do well to remember it was his first day of Premier League work with Liverpool, and one that started with the news of academy manager Pep Segura quitting. It was not the best 24 hours for Brendan Rodgers; he knows he’ll have worse, but he knows he’ll also have better. Much like the weather on Saturday, he will hope the gloominess makes way for glorious sunshine at some point, even if only for a while.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/blog/_/name/liverpool/id/32?cc=5739

Offline GrkStav

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Re: RAWK Round Table: WBA 3 - 0 Liverpool FC
« Reply #238 on: August 21, 2012, 07:22:35 pm »
The keeper can't mate but he may have been unnerved had Borini got out to him a bit quicker instead of avoiding taking a hit off the ball, we'll never know now.
Agger's hesitation was an error also and perhaps Skrtel just dwelling on the ball was.

It was an unfortunate day but don't worry, Hodgson also had a player sent off on his league debut and it all turned out f.........

Only it wasn't Borini, it was Glen Johnson who "got out to him". I know, they look so much alike . . .
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Offline rafa4eva

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Re: RAWK Round Table: WBA 3 - 0 Liverpool FC
« Reply #239 on: August 22, 2012, 01:59:48 pm »
Personally, thought we played too aggressive and open considering kelly and Johnson's positions, Kelly is not a wing back, he can be a solid right back though and looking at it in hindsight, not having kyut on the right meant kelly wasn't being covered ... Simpleton analysis maybe but one I think has a ring of truth...

Also I think Allen threw the dynamic of the team, he looked good tbf but again him and Lucas need to work on when to hold and move and Allen may have been pushing the ball forwards too quickly at times IMO ... Gerrards link up with Suarez or anyone to be honest was nearly non existent... Downing just vanished attuned and Borini looked inconsistent and ineffective... to be honest not surprised considering it was his 1st competitive game ....

For me the 1st half was tidy, nothing exceptional to be honest... What concerned me again were the same issues as last season, too gung ho at times, which meant luis had to do his usual make something happen or we looked a little lost as the ball had come up too quickly resulting in losing the ball or creating chances which IMO were stretched chances far from clear again IMO ...

Hard to say where it fell apart, after the 1st goal the issues we had in the 1st half just magnified themselves ...