Author Topic: Chinese football and its impact  (Read 8756 times)

Offline Lush is the best medicine...

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Re: Chinese football and it's impact
« Reply #40 on: December 30, 2016, 11:56:47 am »
Has Ronaldo rejected the first offer?

He's already making obscene money; it'd be like someone offering you a choice of one of two boxes, one with £100m in and the other with £500m.  You really wouldn't be arsed about which one you opened. 
id argue that his marketing appeal would drop overall if he went to china as that league would still have little relevance. Would be huge in china but increasingly less relevant elsewhere, even if he is supposedly the worlds most famous athlete

Offline Clint Eastwood

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Re: Chinese football and it's impact
« Reply #41 on: December 30, 2016, 12:03:24 pm »
Rob Harris Verified account
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Exclusive: Referee Mark Clattenburg says he would consider move to Chinese Super League but hasn't received offer
:lmao

A fucking referee making a come and get me plea.

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Re: Chinese football and it's impact
« Reply #42 on: December 30, 2016, 12:07:57 pm »
Has Ronaldo rejected the first offer?

He's already making obscene money; it'd be like someone offering you a choice of one of two boxes, one with £100m in and the other with £500m.  You really wouldn't be arsed about which one you opened. 

The thing is, people adjust to their income. To you and me either one is an obscene amount of money. If you are used to having €100M you probably spend a lot of it already so increasing it by 400% might sound very appealing.
If you're lying, I'll chop your head off.

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Re: Chinese football and it's impact
« Reply #43 on: December 30, 2016, 12:09:14 pm »
If you're lying, I'll chop your head off.

Offline thelinnen

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Re: Chinese football and it's impact
« Reply #44 on: December 30, 2016, 12:29:32 pm »
Well yes, this is not an overnight process.

However if you consider that the Japanese took 30-40 years to start producing players of an elite level then it is a safe bet that with the money being splashed and the quality being attracted it will not take till the 'end of time'.

The date being touted is 2050. Apparently, one of the key targets is a world cup win by then.
Xi Jinping will be long gone by 2050. I can't see his successor caring this much about it.
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Online LovelyCushionedHeader

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Re: Chinese football and it's impact
« Reply #45 on: December 30, 2016, 12:30:55 pm »
:lmao

A fucking referee making a come and get me plea.

To be fair, I could understand a referee wanting to go. The money they make isn't life changing.
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Offline Peabee

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Re: Chinese football and it's impact
« Reply #46 on: December 30, 2016, 12:36:26 pm »
The thing is, people adjust to their income. To you and me either one is an obscene amount of money. If you are used to having €100M you probably spend a lot of it already so increasing it by 400% might sound very appealing.

Only if greed is their main drive.  Otherwise, they'll just have more money in the bank.  It's why "trickle down" economics is nonsense.  I doubt someone with £100m spends a lot if it (relatively) and giving them an extra £100m would be a leak from the economy as they'd save it. (My uncle is wealthy and he's a tight arse.)
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Re: Chinese football and it's impact
« Reply #47 on: December 30, 2016, 12:37:44 pm »
I think they could struggle to develop attacking players. I think a lot of the foreign players playing in the CSL are attacking players so opportunities could be limited for young, Chinese players.

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Re: Chinese football and it's impact
« Reply #48 on: December 30, 2016, 12:41:12 pm »
They've already had star-ish players in sun jihai and li tie. Didn't do much for the overall game.

The ceiling here is continental competition. Ok, they can create a decent level league. Any of their clubs can walk the Asian champions league every season. It's pointless.Then what?

I can see them 'negotiating' with uefa / comnebol for slots in the top tier competitions. Illegal, logistical nightmare etc etc but money can open most doors.

Offline CraigDS

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Re: Chinese football and it's impact
« Reply #49 on: December 30, 2016, 12:48:18 pm »
Not a chance the big European clubs would allow them in our competitions. We'd walk and create our own if UEFA tried.

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Re: Chinese football and it's impact
« Reply #50 on: December 30, 2016, 12:49:20 pm »
:lmao

A fucking referee making a come and get me plea.
A come-and-get-me plea isn't made, it's issued.

Offline Lush is the best medicine...

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Re: Chinese football and it's impact
« Reply #51 on: December 30, 2016, 01:13:44 pm »
I can see them 'negotiating' with uefa / comnebol for slots in the top tier competitions. Illegal, logistical nightmare etc etc but money can open most doors.
no chance they let Chinese clubs right in to the CL, unless they find some way to get from Europe to china in 3/4 hours as opposed to 18 hours then it's not happening

Offline Mister Flip Flop

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Re: Chinese football and it's impact
« Reply #52 on: December 30, 2016, 01:22:34 pm »
Not a chance the big European clubs would allow them in our competitions. We'd walk and create our own if UEFA tried.

Again money talks. In my opinion we are only a matter of 5-10 years away from an international super league of sorts anyway involving European, Chinese, middle eastern and American teams. Massive revenue to be made for all our big clubs from the idea.
Soccer - let's face it, its not really about a game of ball anymore is it?

Offline Lush is the best medicine...

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Re: Chinese football and it's impact
« Reply #53 on: December 30, 2016, 01:26:06 pm »
Again money talks. In my opinion we are only a matter of 5-10 years away from an international super league of sorts anyway involving European, Chinese, middle eastern and American teams. Massive revenue to be made for all our big clubs from the idea.
how do you get to that conclusion? Charlie Stillitano?

Plus if you have all the 'big' clubs in there won't some end up becoming 'small' clubs as they keep losing, so it won't quite be filled with big clubs?

Offline CraigDS

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Re: Chinese football and it's impact
« Reply #54 on: December 30, 2016, 01:28:11 pm »
Again money talks. In my opinion we are only a matter of 5-10 years away from an international super league of sorts anyway involving European, Chinese, middle eastern and American teams. Massive revenue to be made for all our big clubs from the idea.

Allowing Chinese clubs would do nothing but weaken European clubs. The likes of the PL, La Liga and CL are already massively popular, and adding the Chinese teams won't increase this. It will however increase the worldwide popularity of the Chinese clubs, and allow them to offer a top level football competition to players and along with the massive money allow them to attract away the top top level players.

No way will European clubs allow that.

Also can't see an international super league happening (certainly not in 5-10 years anyway). People have spoken about a European one for decades and it's never happened, and that's without the transport issues involved with a worldwide one.

Offline thelinnen

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Re: Chinese football and it's impact
« Reply #55 on: December 30, 2016, 01:29:27 pm »
Again money talks. In my opinion we are only a matter of 5-10 years away from an international super league of sorts anyway involving European, Chinese, middle eastern and American teams. Massive revenue to be made for all our big clubs from the idea.
Speculation is a wonderful thing.
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Offline Nessy76

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Re: Chinese football and it's impact
« Reply #56 on: December 30, 2016, 01:42:02 pm »
Rob Harris Verified account
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Exclusive: Referee Mark Clattenburg says he would consider move to Chinese Super League but hasn't received offer

"Clatts" wants a piece of the pie. It used to be one of the most corrupt leagues on earth and theres still bent games there so I think some of our (former)refs would fit right in. Hiya Howie!!

I would also consider a big money move if one was on the table.

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Re: Chinese football and it's impact
« Reply #57 on: December 30, 2016, 02:05:05 pm »
All that money, if it went to poor people instead. To prevent poverty and war.

The amount of money in football has become immoral.

Offline Johnny B. Goode

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Re: Chinese football and it's impact
« Reply #58 on: December 30, 2016, 02:08:58 pm »
China is just starting to steal some half decent players from Europe, maybe in the not so distant future they can actually compete for the top players.

It already is quite funny seeing the European reaction. Hope they realise that's what Europe has done (and does) to South America. A shame losing players to foreign money innit  ;D
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Offline Clint Eastwood

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Re: Chinese football and it's impact
« Reply #59 on: December 30, 2016, 02:11:54 pm »
A come-and-get-me plea isn't made, it's issued.
Sorry chief.

Offline CraigDS

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Re: Chinese football and it's impact
« Reply #60 on: December 30, 2016, 02:12:13 pm »
China is just starting to steal some half decent players from Europe, maybe in the not so distant future they can actually compete for the top players.

It already is quite funny seeing the European reaction. Hope they realise that's what Europe has done (and does) to South America. A shame losing players to foreign money innit  ;D

Europe doesn't just offer money though (it does, of course), it also offers the most popular teams in the world, the most popular leagues in the world and the most popular inter-country competitions in the world.

There is as much a footballing argument to come to Europe as their is a financial one. China doesn't offer that.

Offline Johnny B. Goode

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Re: Chinese football and it's impact
« Reply #61 on: December 30, 2016, 02:16:33 pm »
Europe doesn't just offer money though (it does, of course), it also offers the most popular teams in the world, the most popular leagues in the world and the most popular inter-country competitions in the world.

There is as much a footballing argument to come to Europe as their is a financial one. China doesn't offer that.
But the leagues and teams are only popular because they have money. If Argentina and Brazil could hold on to their best players they'd have the best league in the world. Similarly, imagine what big European clubs feel losing players to Stoke for instance.

It's money. I know Europe at least has had a footballing culture since forever but their current power is more based on money than anything.
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Offline CraigDS

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Re: Chinese football and it's impact
« Reply #62 on: December 30, 2016, 02:19:13 pm »
But the leagues and teams are only popular because they have money. If Argentina and Brazil could hold on to their best players they'd have the best league in the world. Similarly, imagine what big European clubs feel losing players to Stoke for instance.

It's money. I know Europe at least has had a footballing culture since forever but their current power is more based on money than anything.

They have the money because of the football culture though. It's not like massive money was there so the culture followed. We had the good native players (look at the nationality of the teams which made Liverpool famous around the world) and then the money followed and the foreign players - but the leagues were established as the best in the world by then.

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Re: Chinese football and it's impact
« Reply #63 on: December 30, 2016, 02:22:21 pm »
But the leagues and teams are only popular because they have money. If Argentina and Brazil could hold on to their best players they'd have the best league in the world. Similarly, imagine what big European clubs feel losing players to Stoke for instance.

It's money. I know Europe at least has had a footballing culture since forever but their current power is more based on money than anything.
they have money as they have for the most part organically grown the game, have the biggest clubs and have strong economies, well run clubs and the lifestyle in terms of lower crime rates are much better in Europe, South American clubs for the most part are run terribly so even if they suddenly got loads and loads of money they'd still be a mess

Offline Johnny B. Goode

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Re: Chinese football and it's impact
« Reply #64 on: December 30, 2016, 02:35:08 pm »
They have the money because of the football culture though. It's not like massive money was there so the culture followed. We had the good native players (look at the nationality of the teams which made Liverpool famous around the world) and then the money followed and the foreign players - but the leagues were established as the best in the world by then.
South America also has a football culture, so why is Europe on top? The answer, of course, is that European countries (and therefore fans, and therefore clubs) have more money. In fact, the gap between Brazil (can't speak for Argentina) and Europe wasn't so great league-wise until the late 90s/early 200s. We had loads of good internationals that didn't go abroad or couldn't be bothered with more than one season in Europe. It wasn't the pinnacle of a player's career then, there was no 'make it in Europe' requirement. That changed still somewhat recently, and I think it was in no small part due to globalisation and the economic prowess European clubs had.

Of course European leagues were always going to be good and much better than what the Chinese league still is now. But the gap between Europe and South America is now gigantic, the number of Brazilians and Argentines going to Europe at a young age is obscene. We don't even get to form a lot of our players now, and it's not like they are going to the very top European clubs. European clubs and leagues (though mostly the PL, by far) did very well out of globalisation and marketing, to a point where they successfully sold the idea that real football is in Europe. Being good anywhere else is not enough and Europe is the real test where every half-decent player should go to. Before that we still had South Americans going to Europe, but it was in a far small numbers and usually to top clubs. Now European leagues are probably just as popular as the Brazilian league in Brazil.

they have money as they have for the most part organically grown the game, have the biggest clubs and have strong economies, well run clubs and the lifestyle in terms of lower crime rates are much better in Europe, South American clubs for the most part are run terribly so even if they suddenly got loads and loads of money they'd still be a mess

I suppose that is true to some cases, but it might be an oversimplification. Based on the profile of Brazilian players I'm uncertain as to how much they care about Europe's culture and lifestyle. They're absolutely loaded anyway, and the majority go back to Brazil as soon as they 'can'. Again, there'd always be players going to the ver top European clubs, but losing good players to mid-table Italian and Spanish teams hurts the national league tremendously.

I know the comparison isn't perfectly symmetric. Europe has had great teams, a big fanbase and good players since the beginnings of football, but especially since the 1990s money plays a huge part in where success and popularity goes. The more football becomes a business, the truer this is. There's little moral high ground to take regarding the Chinese league here I think. It's what the game is now, and you can easily say that just as European clubs have more money due to stronger economies, so do the Chinese teams.
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Offline CraigDS

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Re: Chinese football and it's impact
« Reply #65 on: December 30, 2016, 02:41:20 pm »
South America also has a football culture, so why is Europe on top? The answer, of course, is that European countries (and therefore fans, and therefore clubs) have more money. In fact, the gap between Brazil (can't speak for Argentina) and Europe wasn't so great league-wise until the late 90s/early 200s. We had loads of good internationals that didn't go abroad or couldn't be bothered with more than one season in Europe. It wasn't the pinnacle of a player's career then, there was no 'make it in Europe' requirement. That changed still somewhat recently, and I think it was in no small part due to globalisation and the economic prowess European clubs had.

Of course European leagues were always going to be good and much better than what the Chinese league still is now. But the gap between Europe and South America is now gigantic, the number of Brazilians and Argentines going to Europe at a young age is obscene. We don't even get to form a lot of our players now, and it's not like they are going to the very top European clubs. European clubs and leagues (though mostly the PL, by far) did very well out of globalisation and marketing, to a point where they successfully sold the idea that real football is in Europe. Being good anywhere else is not enough and Europe is the real test where every half-decent player should go to. Before that we still had South Americans going to Europe, but it was in a far small numbers and usually to top clubs. Now European leagues are probably just as popular as the Brazilian league in Brazil.

Oh I don't disagree with any of that mate. However your initial point I replied to was "But the leagues and teams are only popular because they have money."

I was simply pointing out that it's not why they are popular - or at least they were popular, attracted the money, attracted the players, and became even more popular. China having money now doesn't mean they'll become a popular choice, or become a competitive league to rival the European ones.

Offline OneTouchFooty

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Re: Chinese football and it's impact
« Reply #66 on: December 30, 2016, 03:11:26 pm »
Can't see it taking off like people expect, the culture, food and language for a start is so very different compared to say the jump from S.America -> Europe, even before the weather and pollution, that for lots of top footballers the desire to move won't be there and in this the kudos of the league will struggle to rise and attract any huge name in their mid 20's. I can see it carrying on with top-mid level players (Oscar, Alex Texeira, Tevez etc.) who are unambitious, greedy or past it though will be tempted.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2016, 03:13:12 pm by OneTouchFooty »

Offline thelinnen

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Chinese football and it's impact
« Reply #67 on: December 30, 2016, 03:19:07 pm »
But the leagues and teams are only popular because they have money.
Bollocks. Do we all support Liverpool because they're a wealthy team then?

People support clubs because they win things, or because they feel a genuine connection because of their history, or they are simply just their local club. The money is a consequence of that, not the other way around.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2016, 03:21:11 pm by thelinnen »
Then in the midddle out pops a smiling glen johnson pulling up his jersey to reveal a t-shirt of suarez with a text saying. "OUR SUAREZ IS A FRIEND TO ALL COLOURS!"

Offline Johnny B. Goode

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Re: Chinese football and it's impact
« Reply #68 on: December 30, 2016, 03:28:49 pm »
Oh I don't disagree with any of that mate. However your initial point I replied to was "But the leagues and teams are only popular because they have money."

I was simply pointing out that it's not why they are popular - or at least they were popular, attracted the money, attracted the players, and became even more popular. China having money now doesn't mean they'll become a popular choice, or become a competitive league to rival the European ones.

Bollocks. Do we all support Liverpool because they're a wealthy team then?

People support clubs because they win things, or because they feel a genuine connection because of their history, or they are simply just their local club. The money is a consequence of that, not the other way around.

I should have been clearer: I meant popular world-wide. European leagues would always have local fans, but what makes them particularly strong is their global appeal. It's no coincidence the gap between Europe and other leagues grew larger as European leagues started being broadcast en masse around the world.
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Re: Chinese football and it's impact
« Reply #69 on: December 30, 2016, 03:55:42 pm »
Maybe we'll get lucky and one of these Chinese clubs will offer us £85m for Lucas?
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Offline thelinnen

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Chinese football and it's impact
« Reply #70 on: December 30, 2016, 03:55:54 pm »
Their global appeal is because they win things that actually matter though.

I don't watch the occasional Bundesliga, La Liga or even Championship match exclusively for the best players. I watch them because they are competitive leagues that are historically entertaining. There is something on the result, it matters if a team gets relegated or wins a trophy.

I'm as sceptical of modern football as anyone else but even ignoring what I just said you can still make the stronger argument on the commercial side of things. The best players are motivated by glory as well as money, they want to go down in history of the biggest clubs, to walk in the footsteps of all the great players who have gone before them.

Some of them also want to be celebrities, they want to be recognised in the street in London, they want to live in a swanky mansion in sunny Barcelona, they want to own ten supercars, they want to pull women who would be out of their league if they were just the average man on the street. Even when football is put aside it's not all about the money, it's what the money gets them.
Then in the midddle out pops a smiling glen johnson pulling up his jersey to reveal a t-shirt of suarez with a text saying. "OUR SUAREZ IS A FRIEND TO ALL COLOURS!"

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Re: Chinese football and it's impact
« Reply #71 on: December 30, 2016, 03:56:18 pm »
I'm also available for China.  :wave

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Re: Chinese football and it's impact
« Reply #72 on: December 30, 2016, 03:57:26 pm »

To be fair, I could understand a referee wanting to go. The money they make isn't life changing.

Years ago maybe but now the ones in the premier league earn a lot
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Offline CraigDS

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Re: Chinese football and it's impact
« Reply #73 on: December 30, 2016, 03:59:21 pm »
Years ago maybe but now the ones in the premier league earn a lot

They are on about a £70k a year salary, hardly enough to retire off when they become unfit enough to ref PL games.

Edit - actually it's £70k after all match fee's. The yearly retainer is around £40k.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2016, 04:02:39 pm by CraigDace »

Offline lfc_col

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Re: Chinese football and it's impact
« Reply #74 on: December 30, 2016, 04:27:41 pm »
They are on about a £70k a year salary, hardly enough to retire off when they become unfit enough to ref PL games.

Edit - actually it's £70k after all match fee's. The yearly retainer is around £40k.

http://www.totalsportek.com/money/english-premier-league-referee-salaries/
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Re: Chinese football and it's impact
« Reply #76 on: December 30, 2016, 04:42:26 pm »
They are on about a £70k a year salary, hardly enough to retire off when they become unfit enough to ref PL games.

Edit - actually it's £70k after all match fee's. The yearly retainer is around £40k.

Plus undisclosed amounts in used notes stuffed into brown envelopes.  ;)
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Offline FiSh77

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Re: Chinese football and it's impact
« Reply #77 on: December 30, 2016, 05:16:40 pm »
Plus undisclosed amounts in used notes stuffed into brown envelopes.  ;)

that amount has dropped quite significantly over the past 3 years, can't quite put my finger on why though.............

Offline Nessy76

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Re: Chinese football and it's impact
« Reply #78 on: December 30, 2016, 05:21:43 pm »
Seriously, though. "Chinese football and it is impact" is a shite thread header.
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Re: Chinese football and it's impact
« Reply #79 on: December 30, 2016, 06:13:55 pm »
I'm also available for China.  :wave

I'm a hell of a lot closer than you are - I'm only like an hour away. Don't bogart my millions!  :wave
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