Author Topic: The referee watch thread.  (Read 30821 times)

Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #40 on: January 13, 2014, 02:35:17 pm »
How about a "1 review per game", option?

If teams feel a certain decision has gone against them, they can appeal. Then and there. The player in question, indicates to the captain of his team about the foul/offside/penalty/yellow card etc, who inturn speaks to the referee about the decision to review the incident. The game is paused, and reviewed on live camera (As in, the replays are shown on TV), very similar to the 3rd umpire review system in cricket.

The teams can only enable 1 review per game, and if they get it wrong, they lose their appeal in their next game. They are not carried over.

Can't the fourth official just have a TV monitor in front of them like what was used at the World Cup to send off Zidane? It would take only a few seconds and would hardly interrupt the game. Or perhaps like with the NHL have more decisions made from a central control unit that is independently located outside of the premises to aid referees in re: to major decisions.

Offline AB LFC

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #41 on: January 13, 2014, 04:19:02 pm »
Find it infuriating that the refs are just sat there right now in their big houses and nice cars after doing a shit job at the weekend, fully knowing they don't have to explain to anyone their incompetences and yet they'll pick up another payday this weekend. FA can fuck right off.

Offline Sgt. Pepper

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #42 on: January 13, 2014, 04:27:56 pm »
This is probably the best thread to put this in, but what has happened to the program of suspensions we were supposed to see this season for violent tackles and challenges, even if the referee had produced a booking? Like the Respect campaign, this one seems to have been tidily put back in a drawer. Eto'o on Henderson. Rooney on Mutch. And now Yanga-Mbiwa on Nasri all come to mind is candidates that deserved red and possibly suspensions after-the-fact.
Politicians don't have to act like politicians only when they're elected by the public. FIFA, UEFA, The FA etc will all pretend to care about something, legislate and make a wee bit of noise about it in order for others to think they're actually doing something but if it requires their time & effort yet doesn't directly puts money in their pockets then they'll never follow through.

Offline Phineus

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #43 on: January 13, 2014, 04:29:40 pm »
Was discussing this in the pub yesterday after Newcastle match.

Friend of mine asked why referee's aren't full time. I mean players are, managers are, coaches and technical staff so why aren't referee's?

Why aren't they refereeing all the youth and reserve games throughout the week? Or even practice matches? Working full time constantly reviewing their performances, working on fitness, building partnerships with their linesman etc?

Obviously money would come into but I'm sure the resources and facilities are there.

Surely for such an elite and high profile sport refereeing should be a full time profession and not a 'passion' or a side job.

It might have changed over the last few years and become more like this but if not it seems a pretty archaic way of running things. FA for you I guess.

Offline ManchesterBlue

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #44 on: January 13, 2014, 04:29:44 pm »
How about a "1 review per game", option?

If teams feel a certain decision has gone against them, they can appeal. Then and there. The player in question, indicates to the captain of his team about the foul/offside/penalty/yellow card etc, who inturn speaks to the referee about the decision to review the incident. The game is paused, and reviewed on live camera (As in, the replays are shown on TV), very similar to the 3rd umpire review system in cricket.

The teams can only enable 1 review per game, and if they get it wrong, they lose their appeal in their next game. They are not carried over.
I'd say a review is a good idea but only when the game has already stopped. So on Sunday, the game had stopped anyway when Tiote "scored" and that could have been reviewed without impacting play.

Offline Ziltoid

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #45 on: January 13, 2014, 04:53:52 pm »
One review regards either a goal, a disallowed goal or a penalty decision? Nothing else.

Offline astowell1

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #46 on: January 13, 2014, 05:20:08 pm »
Refereeing has never been as consistently bad as it is right now, makes watching the game a frustrating experience at times.

Offline ChaChaMooMoo

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #47 on: January 14, 2014, 01:24:55 pm »
I'd say a review is a good idea but only when the game has already stopped. So on Sunday, the game had stopped anyway when Tiote "scored" and that could have been reviewed without impacting play.

Can't the fourth official just have a TV monitor in front of them like what was used at the World Cup to send off Zidane? It would take only a few seconds and would hardly interrupt the game. Or perhaps like with the NHL have more decisions made from a central control unit that is independently located outside of the premises to aid referees in re: to major decisions.

Zidanes incident was not a split second incident, as in the game was already "stopped" as the goalkeeper was lining up to kick the ball. Decisions like, diving, handball, penalty, offside etc, that take place during the course of the game, require the game to be stopped for a considerable amount of time.

The problem with the CCU you mentioned is that, this "independent" body would have to be recognised by the major bodies of world football if it has to be bought in. Not just the FIFA, but the individual leagues, PFA, LMA, clubs would have to offer their support. Again, what/who constitutes this individual body would be debated and be questioned. It will take time to go through all this. And know who will be the first to register their displeasure? The referees union. They would obviously feel undermined if a third party came to supervise their decision.

A decision to review an incident should come fast, and should come from within. The 4th official, besides the referee and the linesmen, is a place to start looking at. He doesnt have any duties, per say. As in, he doesnt involve himself in the game as much as the referee and the linesman. Why not grant him the power to supervise 1 review per game?

Tiotes goal vs City, Sterlings offside call vs City, that stamp on Nasri..

Offline JohnHobbes

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #48 on: January 14, 2014, 01:31:21 pm »
The problem with football is that it's not stop-start like other games where video replays work. Cricket/American  Football have natural stoppages where you can evaluate something without prejudice.

Whilst goal line technology works as it either crossed or it didn't, how do you handle a situation where the player was onside but whistled offside before he takes a shot. A free kick? If he does score but the keeper didn't try to save it because of the whistle?

You'd have to seriously limit it to a very tight selection of areas and then have a problem when a decision outside of it gets massive media attention again.

Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #49 on: January 14, 2014, 02:10:51 pm »
Zidanes incident was not a split second incident, as in the game was already "stopped" as the goalkeeper was lining up to kick the ball. Decisions like, diving, handball, penalty, offside etc, that take place during the course of the game, require the game to be stopped for a considerable amount of time.

Referees often give cards several minutes after an incident has happened due to playing advantage, surely information could be relayed to them within a few seconds telling them to blow the whistle as an incident has taken place. It still surprises me with modern technology how there isn't a system in place that could be used for letting the linesman know whether a decision is offside or not, in the same way Hawkeye can tell us whether the ball was in the back of the net.

Quote
The problem with the CCU you mentioned is that, this "independent" body would have to be recognised by the major bodies of world football if it has to be bought in. Not just the FIFA, but the individual leagues, PFA, LMA, clubs would have to offer their support. Again, what/who constitutes this individual body would be debated and be questioned. It will take time to go through all this. And know who will be the first to register their displeasure? The referees union. They would obviously feel undermined if a third party came to supervise their decision.

The body in this case is independently located from the centre of action. The NHL's control room/situation room is located in Toronto in the NHL offices, which is designed to prevent bias and influence from occurring in the arenas were the incident has taken place. You have a league official/referee assigned to each game, where they are given access to countless camera angles, including cameras not used for broadcast purposes. The NFL is considering adopting the NHL's system.

Offline Il Capitano

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #50 on: January 14, 2014, 02:26:48 pm »
The only solution is to produce match-refereeing A.I. that makes purely objective decisions. So, for instance, offside calls could be perfectly called 100% of the time because the system is monitoring player positions on the pitch down to millimetres. The referee would merely act as a conduit for the calls of this technology. You could develop it to recognise illegal tackles over a long period of time, by monitoring the body shapes of the players involved, the speed of movement, etc. It could be done.

Offline Red_Isle_Chap

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #51 on: January 14, 2014, 03:23:25 pm »
Refereeing has never been as consistently bad as it is right now, makes watching the game a frustrating experience at times.
It's also never been as highlighted, and the mistakes have never seemed to have "cost" as much as now, despite that being utter rubbish (I imagine that if there was the coverage of now back in the 70's and 80's we'd have been seen to get a lot of decisions)

I think everyone agrees that it can't go on the way it is because at the moment the officials (not just thre refs but the lino's as well) are being really, really shit. But radical technological moves probably aren't the way forward without ripping the flow out of footy.
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Offline Phineus

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #52 on: January 14, 2014, 03:30:17 pm »
It's also never been as highlighted, and the mistakes have never seemed to have "cost" as much as now, despite that being utter rubbish (I imagine that if there was the coverage of now back in the 70's and 80's we'd have been seen to get a lot of decisions)

I think everyone agrees that it can't go on the way it is because at the moment the officials (not just thre refs but the lino's as well) are being really, really shit. But radical technological moves probably aren't the way forward without ripping the flow out of footy.

I think what winds everyone up so much is the blatant refusal by the FA to allow any blame to be placed at the officials feet. If there was genuine accountability for the wrong decisions then I don't think the reactions would be as intense.

But because they are so blindly protected no matter the size or nature of the mistake it just makes the whole thing feel very unfair which intensifies the feelings toward them even more.

Human error will also be a factor - at least in our lifetime I think - but as people in here are saying just a quick interview/acknowledgment after the game (even to just explain their decision making/thought process) would probably be a very smart PR move by them.

Offline Mamadou

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #53 on: January 14, 2014, 03:42:08 pm »
The only solution is to produce match-refereeing A.I. that makes purely objective decisions. So, for instance, offside calls could be perfectly called 100% of the time because the system is monitoring player positions on the pitch down to millimetres. The referee would merely act as a conduit for the calls of this technology. You could develop it to recognise illegal tackles over a long period of time, by monitoring the body shapes of the players involved, the speed of movement, etc. It could be done.

lower leagues and leagues from poorer countries can't afford that technology...only top leagues having that technology would mess the betting system
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Offline ManchesterBlue

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #54 on: January 14, 2014, 04:24:49 pm »
I think what winds everyone up so much is the blatant refusal by the FA to allow any blame to be placed at the officials feet. If there was genuine accountability for the wrong decisions then I don't think the reactions would be as intense.

But because they are so blindly protected no matter the size or nature of the mistake it just makes the whole thing feel very unfair which intensifies the feelings toward them even more.

Human error will also be a factor - at least in our lifetime I think - but as people in here are saying just a quick interview/acknowledgment after the game (even to just explain their decision making/thought process) would probably be a very smart PR move by them.
When you say genuine accountability they should publish their internal "league table" of assessors' and delegates' remarks and there should be promotion and relegation, as happened to Stuart Attwell who was demonstrably and utterly incompetent.

Offline Kalessin

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #55 on: January 14, 2014, 04:47:23 pm »
The only solution is to produce match-refereeing A.I. that makes purely objective decisions. So, for instance, offside calls could be perfectly called 100% of the time because the system is monitoring player positions on the pitch down to millimetres. The referee would merely act as a conduit for the calls of this technology. You could develop it to recognise illegal tackles over a long period of time, by monitoring the body shapes of the players involved, the speed of movement, etc. It could be done.

Yes, I think offsides and line calls (including corners, "who got the last touch" etc.) could be almost instantaneously notified and this investment shouldn't seem strange in a multi-million pound "industry".  These calls almost always involve a break in play (ie. for a possible goal) so the decision would not interfere with the flow of the game.  I also think most handballs could be assessed in this way once the tech is tested.

Fouls and tackling is more difficult because of the variables - intent, risk of injury, consequence and context.  Refereeing has a part to play since these change from game to game and throughout the game.  The difference between a mistimed and a malicious tackle is not always obvious.  It's not impossible in theory (just like interpreting people from facial and gesture cues  :-\) but is clearly not an exact science and currently a long way off being viable as an "automatic" function ... but a '3rd eye' referee with access to replays could play a more active and helpful role.  The ref only needs to consult on important calls, just like rugby - and just like he might consult with the linesman.

« Last Edit: January 14, 2014, 04:50:19 pm by Kalessin »
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Offline astowell1

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #56 on: January 14, 2014, 07:11:14 pm »
It's also never been as highlighted, and the mistakes have never seemed to have "cost" as much as now, despite that being utter rubbish (I imagine that if there was the coverage of now back in the 70's and 80's we'd have been seen to get a lot of decisions)

I think everyone agrees that it can't go on the way it is because at the moment the officials (not just thre refs but the lino's as well) are being really, really shit. But radical technological moves probably aren't the way forward without ripping the flow out of footy.

Very good points there.

Offline E2K

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #57 on: January 15, 2014, 10:49:52 am »
Nobody has all the answers, but here's a few ponts to consider.

So Mike Jones has been demoted to fourth official this weekend, according to one of the papers. There’s been no official word on it that I can see, but the inference appears to be that it’s because of his performance in the Newcastle/Manchester City game. I’m wondering what good that will really do? “Don’t do it again!” Well how can he guarantee that he won't? He called it as he saw it at the time. It was the wrong decision, but what does punishing him for it achieve? What, is he going to grow another set of eyes or suddenly ‘get better’ at being a referee? How does he do that? He doesn’t, he can’t. A demotion should surely only happen if he’s been exposed generally as unfit to be a referee, but then surely he should just be fired? He’ll be back refereeing again next week, won’t he? What, so the time he’s had to think about what he’s done will ensure that it doesn’t happen again? I don’t think so. More likely that, the next time, he simply allows a goal where an offside player was interfering with play. He’s either good enough to referee at this level or he isn’t, and if he’s not good enough for this level, he shouldn’t be good enough for any professional level. If an incompetent official isn’t good enough for Liverpool or Spurs, he shouldn’t be good enough for Ipswich, Leeds or Southend either. The truth is that Jones is probably as good (i.e. bog-standard) as most referees, better than a few (e.g. Lee Mason, though it wouldn’t be hard) and worse than others, and that will be the case for whoever takes his place as well. These men are flawed and are being asked to do an increasingly impossible job. Punishing them achieves nothing in my view. They need help, and I’m saying that as someone who has been rendered livid in the past by the likes of Mason and Howard Webb.

One referee and two linesmen are, in my view, simply not equipped to effectively manage a top-class football game in 2014 without making serious mistakes on a regular basis. The authorities and the media, the managers and players, need to either live with that or make a genuine effort to do something about it. Some of them certainly don’t help themselves at times (e.g. you often get the impression that a referee has gone into a game with a predetermined idea of keeping his cards in their pocket, a recipe for disaster – see: World Cup final 2010), but most contentious decisions are just basic human error. That human error has become more frequent over time due to two factors. Firstly, the game has undoubtedly gotten faster, particularly in the past two decades or so. Players are fitter than ever thanks to advances in diet and sports science, they’re stronger, they’re quicker, they’re more agile, the balls are lighter, the jerseys are more breathable, the pitches are better, etc. The technology to cover the sport has also moved on, and these days viewers and pundits can see and rehash contentious incidents from five, six, seven different angles within mere seconds of it happening. Referees and linesmen, on the other hand, aside from having more convoluted rules and interpretations of rules to learn, haven’t really changed at all. They’re still part-time, they still have split-seconds to see incidents and make a decision on them and, most crucially of all, each of them still has only the one pair of eyes.

The second factor is that, as much as I love the game, this sport is dishonest to its very core and referees often appear to be nothing more than marks or rubes to be conned. Players going down under the slightest contact is a prime example. I watched a game on ESPN Classic a few months back, Everton vs. Spurs at Goodison from roughly 1985, and players on the end of hefty tackles were actually struggling to their feet rather than staying down or looking straight to the ref. Nothing has changed more in the English game in the intervening thirty years than this facet of it. The amount of times players just hit the ground under the slightest touch of an opposition player, not ‘diving’ necessarily but waiting for the contact and immediately hitting the deck, has gotten to ridiculous levels now, and every team does it. The spotlight is inevitably always going to be shone on the major talking points like Tiote’s ‘goal’ or Sterling’s ‘offside’ (both against Manchester City in recent weeks), but realistically you could watch any Premier League game this weekend and pick at least ten or fifteen examples of the referee getting something wrong. It’s just that most of these decisions are so minor that they don’t get picked up on, but they happen all the time. So what does a referee do? Wave play on and risk his decision being replayed from countless different angles for days as the manager on the wrong end of a goal the other way curses his name, and worse, to find out that he actually got it wrong and that the player was actually fouled? Or blow the whistle every single time? How the fuck can you tell a foul from a tumble anymore? Aside from the game becoming faster and making the job more difficult and demanding in that sense, the officials are also generally having to deal with twenty-two players, six substitutes and two managers trying to intimidate, cajole and often con them into giving decisions their way nearly every single game. And then managers complain when a referee’s interpretation is so utterly skewed that he doesn't know whether he's being conned or not, or when the psychological pressure becomes so intense with five, six, seven players surrounding him and angrily demanding a decision that he makes the wrong one?

I would have felt a lot more sympathy for Alan Pardew at the weekend if it hadn’t been for the certain knowledge that: (a) he would have gladly taken that goal being disallowed if it had happened at the other end, and (b) he probably has no problem with his players going down under minimal contact rather than trying to play the ball (and if he hadn’t called Pellegrini a ‘fucking old c*nt’, of course). Pellegrini didn’t have much to say at all, beyond it being the right decision, which it wasn’t, shades of Mourinho and the farcical penalty for his team against West Brom earlier in the season. Well what works for you one weekend can work against you the next. It would be interesting to see Pellegrini’s reaction if that kind of ‘correct’ decision was to go against his team in the Nou Camp next month, for example. On that hypothetical occasion, his players will no doubt surround the referee again as they did at St. James’ Park on Sunday, but you live by that sword and you can die by it too, and I dare say the likes of Xavi, Iniesta, Alves and the rest have been at that game a damn sight longer, that ‘game’ being ‘manipulating the referee’ which is increasingly a pre-requisite of sustained success at the highest level. Manchester United had it for over two decades and it gave them an undoubted edge over their rivals, at least domestically (see Graham Poll’s recent revelations on the relief he would feel if Manchester United won a game at Old Trafford). Mourinho’s teams have also long done it effectively, as have Barcelona and Real Madrid. I’m no psychologist and certainly no apologist for certain referees who continually make bad decisions, but that kind of behaviour has got to have the effect of emasculating, intimidating and weakening officials who are then supposed to be able to do their jobs in an effective manner.

Poll’s aforementioned comments give just a glimpse of the psychological pressure that referees are under in the modern game. These are human beings and will continue to make mistakes until action is taken to (a) ease the pressure on them from players, managers and the media, and (b) give them a safety net where on-the-spot, split-second decisions can be reviewed and reinforced. That starts with the authorities. I would see two things happen in an ideal world. I would have referees wearing microphones so that not only can we hear the rationale for their decisions, we can also hear what players are saying to them. My suspicion is that the constant sniping that goes on during a game would ease up and allow them to do their jobs, if not in peace, then at the very least with less outside influence. And secondly, I would see limited use of video technology for the kinds of black and white decisions (like Tiote and Sterling) that, amidst the recriminations that happen from both sides over contentious decisions, could easily be settled without overly delaying the game. Diving is another story, and that can only really be addressed by taking retrospective action after the fact, but in terms of making the decision-making process on the pitch more robust and fit for purpose, it’s inevitable that technology will have to play a part eventually. Otherwise I fear that we’ll simply have to live with the mistakes in the hope that they do, in fact, ‘even themselves out’. They don’t, of course, and some teams, the ones who actively target the referees, will continue to have an edge while others simply have to just put up with it.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2014, 10:53:00 am by E2K »
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Offline justsean

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #58 on: January 15, 2014, 11:02:47 am »
It's bonkers that they don't bring AI in for offside calls.

The linesmen could stay there to do everything else and still run up and down the pitch. Just put a buzzer in his ear or on his wrist to let him know when a player is offside and if said player is interfering then linesman raises flag.

On average I'd say at least once a game we see a dodgey offside call. Often directly related to a goalscoring incident (ala Sterling).

When there's hundreds of millions at stake shouldn't be relying solely on the judgement of 1 human being when there are plenty of varying technologies there to aid them.

Offline ManchesterBlue

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #59 on: January 15, 2014, 11:55:14 am »
Sorry if this sounds a little tin-foil hat but I have a sneaking suspicion that transparency and accountability is the last thing the authorities want.

My view is that the PL is now a "global brand" bringing in huge amounts of money and watched all over the world. The top teams have fans in every corner of the globe. On a simple level, what's better than a good controversy for helping that and getting people talking about it? As Oscar Wilde said "There's only one thing worse than being talked about and that's not being talked about". People will tune in if there's a hugely controversial incident like the ones we've seen recently. The headline "Ref has a blinder" won't get as many readers as "Ref in controversial incident". Who knows, maybe even some of that controversy is encouraged or manufactured?

There's also a couple of other considerations which are a bit more sinister. 1992 saw United win the first PL title but who were the other three in the top four? Norwich, Blackburn & Villa. I'd imagine that even Sky's hyperbolic marketing department would struggle to talk up a Ford Super Sunday involving a game between Norwich and Villa. It's not exactly going to bring traffic to a halt in the Far East you'd imagine. So I believe Sky sussed out a while ago that you needed teams like Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool up there so what's to say they haven't encouraged refs to give them a helping hand? Maybe Howard Webb's seat on the plane to Brazil is his reward for his contribution to that.

And then there's Skybet. The same company that makes money from screening the games also takes bets on them. How is this not a conflict of interest? What if a 'good' result for Skybet in the Chelsea v United game is a draw. How tempting must it be for this extremely powerful company to try to achieve that?

That's why I believe we'll never see a change; too many vested interests.

Offline TarkaLFC

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #60 on: January 15, 2014, 03:22:26 pm »
Make them professional, pay them a lot more (which may attract the best of the foreign referees to the PL) and make these wages dependant on the lower of the two marks given by club managers each week.

We have professional "referees" in cricket, a sport with far less money to play with.  Why not football?
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Offline gazzalfc

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #61 on: April 6, 2014, 04:54:24 pm »
Anthony Taylor - Discuss

Offline Zlen

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #62 on: April 6, 2014, 04:57:43 pm »
This game and combined City+Chelsea games they've cost us potential 6 points difference on the table.
They are deciding games, championships and ruining careers.


Offline Fordy

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #63 on: April 6, 2014, 05:00:50 pm »
Something needs to be done about the standards of officials in this country.

Fans need to complain

Offline MagicB8all

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #64 on: April 6, 2014, 05:01:54 pm »
This game and combined City+Chelsea games they've cost us potential 6 points difference on the table.
They are deciding games, championships and ruining careers.


they are going to have to introduce instant replay.
You can't have unsighted referees over ruling sighting lines men.
Goodbye & thank you Rafa. You've given us more than we ever had a right to expect from you and you stayed loyal and fought for us even when some of our own turned on you. I truly hope that you find somewhere with the support that you deserve & win everything in sight.

Offline Chakan

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #65 on: April 6, 2014, 05:05:21 pm »
They control the league. They decide who wins and who loses. They're accountable to no-one.

Corrupt fucking asshole power hungry cocks the lot of em.

Fuck em.

Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #66 on: September 3, 2016, 12:46:32 pm »
Well, well, well


Quote
Former referee Mark Halsey claims he has been told to turn a blind eye to incidents that take place on the pitch

Halsey made the remarks after Manchester City challenged the FA's violent conduct charge against Sergio Aguero believing that referee Andre Marriner had seen the incident

Samuel Lovett

Former Premier League referee Mark Halsey has made claims that he was told by the Professional Game Match Officials Limited (PGMOL) to say he had not seen bookable incidents take place in matches.

The 55-year-old made the remarks in an online debate regarding Manchester City’s appeal to the charge of violent conduct issued against striker Sergio Aguero after he elbowed Winston Reid in Sunday’s Premier League clash between City and West Ham.

City challenged the Football Association’s ban as they believed that TV images showed that referee Andre Marriner was close to the incident and appeared to be clearly looking at Aguero’s tussle with West Ham's Reid.

Only in circumstances where a referee has not seen a bookable offence can retrospective action be taken against a player.

Had Marriner seen the incident, as City claim, then action should not have been taken after the match on the assumption that the referee had not deemed the incident a bookable offence.

    City are appealing the Aguero charge believing Marriner saw the incident - a view backed by Dermot Gallagher on SSN.
    — Richard Keys (@richardajkeys) September 1, 2016

    @mackemcafu2 @richardajkeys Paul I have been in that situation when I have seen an incident and been told to say I haven't seen it
    — Mark Halsey (@RefereeHalsey) September 2, 2016

    @lee_greenhalgh1 @FA to be Fair to the FA Lee it's not them, it comes from with in the PGMOL
    — Mark Halsey (@RefereeHalsey) September 3, 2016

But Halsey, in conversation on Twitter, made the claim on Friday night that he has previously been told by the PGMOL to say he had not seen incidents that he had in fact witnessed.

"I have been in that situation," he wrote, "when I have seen an incident and been told to say I haven't seen it."

When asked further, Halsey revealed: "To be fair to the FA... it's not them. It comes from within the PGMOL."

Gary Neville, the former Manchester United defender and Valencia boss, waded in on the issue and tweeted: "Mark, I'd like to know who told you to say that!

"@FA and @premierleague think you have a major issue on your hands!!"

The Independent has contacted Mark Halsey and the PGMOL on the matter but is currently waiting for a response.
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/former-referee-mark-halsey-claims-he-has-been-told-to-turn-a-blind-eye-to-incidents-that-take-place-a7223771.html

Offline stoa

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #67 on: September 3, 2016, 01:26:37 pm »
I have no doubt that stuff like that has happened and I don't think you can blame refs for it. The issue is one with the rules, because according to them refs don't make mistakes. The people in charge of the laws of the game are too afraid of what might happen once they concede that the ref is not always right despite being human...

That's even worse as stuff like this (retrospective bans) shouldn't be that big of an issue. The ref has to watch a lot of things during the game and often has just a split-second of time to make a decision or decide whether a player actually tried to hit someone with an elbow or whether it's an accident. Mistakes will happen. So, why wouldn't you allow a ref to change his mind after getting a better look at the incident after the game? It's just a load of bollocks and they should adress this issue at hand (i.e. refs making mistakes in the heat of the moment) instead of finding ways around it (i.e. telling refs that they haven't seen an incident just so they can dish out a retrospective ban)...

Offline pyroparty

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #68 on: September 3, 2016, 01:33:59 pm »
Theres a huge problem with officiating in this country and not just "honest mistakes", hopefully this is the start of something. Gary Neville being an anti corruption cheerleader is kind of amusing though. Next we'll have Alex Ferguson coming out to say theres a problem that needs sorting.

Offline Spanish Al

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #69 on: September 3, 2016, 01:42:27 pm »
To be honest I think that's the way of getting round the "if the ref has seen it, nothing can be done about it" stupid law. Rather than changing the actual law! Its stupid if the ref has seen it that it cant be changed. If he's made a mistake then of course it should be punishable afterwards.

The standard of refs isn't the greatest so anything to make their jobs harder should be avoided.
Rafa Benitez: "I’ll always keep in my heart the good times I’ve had here, the strong and loyal support of the fans in the tough times and the love from Liverpool. I have no words to thank you enough for all these years and I am very proud to say that I was your manager."

Offline FiSh77

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #70 on: September 3, 2016, 01:46:53 pm »
Quote
Gary Neville, the former Manchester United defender and Valencia boss, waded in on the issue and tweeted: "Mark, I'd like to know who told you to say that!

probably your former boss you ugly, inbred twat

Offline Commie Bobbie

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #71 on: September 3, 2016, 02:30:58 pm »
probably your former boss you ugly, inbred twat

Follow the money.
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Offline stoa

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #72 on: September 3, 2016, 03:02:50 pm »
Follow the money.

It has fuck all to do with money or the red nosed twat. The problem is in the laws of the game where it basically says refs don't make mistakes. That's why they can only dish out retrospective punishment, if the ref hasn't seen an incident. The rules have to change...

Offline pyroparty

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #73 on: September 3, 2016, 03:09:54 pm »
Follow the money.

Yep, some naively think it's not going on though.

Offline Oddball

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #74 on: September 3, 2016, 05:07:35 pm »
Will be interesting to hear the reply though from Neville's questions.
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Offline stoz

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #75 on: September 3, 2016, 09:11:50 pm »
Our game in September 2012 at Anfield against the Mancs, was the most corrupt game I've ever witnessed, and was perhaps not surprisingly, refereed by Mark Halsey.

Even Match of the Day and Lawro got involved in the corruption, by saying the three massive decisions, all in favour of the Mancs, were 100% correct, even though they quite clearly weren't.



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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #76 on: September 4, 2016, 12:30:23 am »
It has fuck all to do with money or the red nosed twat. The problem is in the laws of the game where it basically says refs don't make mistakes. That's why they can only dish out retrospective punishment, if the ref hasn't seen an incident. The rules have to change...
But if refs don't make mistakes how can red cards be rescinded? That's the one that confuses me because it is saying the ref saw it but got the decision wrong, surely the same can apply when the ref doesn't book someone, they've seen the incident but read it wrong.

Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #77 on: September 5, 2016, 01:14:29 pm »
Naturally, PGMOL have denied this happens

Quote
Referees’ chief: I don’t know of any officials being asked to lie in reports
• Statement made in wake of claim made by former referee Mark Halsey
• Halsey alleged PGMOL put him under pressure after incident in 2011

Michael Butler

Sunday 4 September 2016 20.32 BST

The head of the referees’ union, Prospect, said he does not know of any officials being asked to lie in their post-match reports to the Football Association, following the former Premier League referee Mark Halsey’s claims he had been put under pressure from PGMOL, the body in charge of Premier League refereeing, to falsely say he had not seen controversial incidents.

Alan Leighton was responding to the controversy caused by tweets sent by Halsey, with regards to the three-match ban handed to Sergio Agüero for elbowing Winston Reid during Manchester City’s victory over West Ham. The ban was added retrospectively by the FA after the referee Andre Marriner failed to include the incident in his post-match report.

“I have been in that situation when I have seen an incident and been told to say I haven’t seen it. To be fair to the FA … it comes from within the PGMOL,” tweeted Halsey on Saturday.

Those comments have led to figures such as Gary Neville calling for an investigation into Halsey’s allegation that referees are being leant on by their controlling body but Leighton told the Guardian: “In all the years that I have represented referees I cannot recall any official approaching me on the basis they had been asked by PGMOL to lie in a report to the FA.”

Halsey’s tweets were in relation to an incident he later clarified as being between Blackburn Rovers’ Steven N’Zonzi and Stoke’s Ryan Shawcross in 2011. “I saw the incident and was happy it was not a red card,” Halsey told the Sun on Sunday. “My bosses weren’t happy. I was under pressure to say I hadn’t seen it. I was furious but no matter what industry you are in, you do what your bosses say. So he [N’Zonzi] was charged and got three matches. I know it goes on because other referees have told me.”

Neville claimed Halsey’s comments have left the FA and the Premier League with “a major issue” to tackle but the PGMOL insisted in a statement that “there is no pressure [on referees] to include or omit anything” from their reports.

It is understood the FA is satisfied with that statement and the governing body’s response on Sunday hardly suggested it is about to launch an investigation into Halsey’s claim. “The FA compliance team deal with all disciplinary matters with the utmost integrity,” it said in a statement.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/sep/04/union-head-dont-know-of-referees-asked-to-lie

Offline CraigDS

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #78 on: September 5, 2016, 01:59:24 pm »
Quote
It is understood the FA is satisfied with that statement and the governing body’s response on Sunday hardly suggested it is about to launch an investigation into Halsey’s claim. “The FA compliance team deal with all disciplinary matters with the utmost integrity,” it said in a statement.

That is an absolute joke. Regardless of if it thinks they deal with them with the "utmost integrity", there has been a pretty big claim made by one of their professional employees, so it HAS to be investigated and not just swept under the carpet.

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #79 on: September 5, 2016, 04:13:50 pm »