Author Topic: Pepe Reina: Out of form or lost his touch?  (Read 186997 times)

Offline andspecks

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Re: Pepe Reina: Out of form or lost his touch?
« Reply #2080 on: November 29, 2012, 06:22:44 am »
Don't bother mate, for some people its just about laying into Pepe. If the ball is kicked at the goal no matter where it's hit what deflection it takes, how much it swerves Pepe should save it no matter what, and if he doesn't then he is shit.
Hardly. It's not about laying into him at all. It's about expecting better of him because a few seasons back he was a phenomenal keeper. He's been making too many mistakes. Brad Jones had been showing better form than Pepe in every aspect besides distribution really. That shot was hardly a worlie nor was it a shot that took a wicked deflection. It was a simple shot that could have easily been gathered up if Pepe had made a better decision before hand.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2012, 06:26:50 am by andspecks »

Offline The Red Menace

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Re: Pepe Reina: Out of form or lost his touch?
« Reply #2081 on: November 29, 2012, 06:52:54 am »
Don't bother mate, for some people its just about laying into Pepe. If the ball is kicked at the goal no matter where it's hit what deflection it takes, how much it swerves Pepe should save it no matter what, and if he doesn't then he is shit.
Yes. Amongst our support base there are people looking for any excuse to have a dig at our players. However worryingly people like yourself seem increasingly to keen to have a dig at any supporter willing to critique to team, it's manager or it's players.

Offline Chakan

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Re: Pepe Reina: Out of form or lost his touch?
« Reply #2082 on: November 29, 2012, 06:55:09 am »
Yes. amongst our support base there are people looking for any excuse to have a dig at our players. However worryingly people like yourself seem increasingly to keen to have a dig at any supporter willing to critique to team, it's manager or it's players.


What the fuck are you on about?

I've done both of those thing.

Offline The Red Menace

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Re: Pepe Reina: Out of form or lost his touch?
« Reply #2083 on: November 29, 2012, 07:00:29 am »
What the fuck are you on about?

I've done both of those thing.
I'm more than aware however attacking supporters contributions seems counterproductive to the purpose of this forum.

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Re: Pepe Reina: Out of form or lost his touch?
« Reply #2084 on: November 29, 2012, 09:23:16 am »
Tottenham scored twice, therefore Reina was automatically at fault. The Reina of old/a top goalkeeper would've saved them. Isn't that how this thread goes post match?

Personally, thought he had a solid game.




Offline JohnHobbes

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Re: Pepe Reina: Out of form or lost his touch?
« Reply #2085 on: November 29, 2012, 09:38:58 am »
Don't bother mate, for some people its just about laying into Pepe. If the ball is kicked at the goal no matter where it's hit what deflection it takes, how much it swerves Pepe should save it no matter what, and if he doesn't then he is shit.

That's the only thing that seems to make sense from recent postings. I've tried looking again at the gif to see what he could have done better and I can't see anything.

The ball starts off going at the top left corner at high speed and Pepe duly reacts by going for it, but then it swerves after ten yards (the wall) and starts going the other way. Ten yards of going one way at speed is normally a very good indicator of its trajectory and Pepe moves to save where it will go. It then swerves and leves him stranded.

So, we have the theory he should have waited longer to see what was happening. End result, if no swerve then he would have not got to the top left corner in time to save it. Criticised ala second goal in Europa League.

Alternatively, he goes for the shot as any keeper would do and we get a huge amount of swerve. End result, he is left going the wrong way. Criticised for not saving it.

He can't win right now, somehow the rose tinted spectacles are out in force and Pepe is being judged to a unrealistic standard. I personally would rather praise him for what he does well, criticise for what he does badly and just accept the rest.

Offline lobsterboy

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Re: Pepe Reina: Out of form or lost his touch?
« Reply #2086 on: November 29, 2012, 09:45:08 am »
Reina's being let down by the midfield, just like the rest of the team. The lack of cover, the giving away possesion in dangerous areas, the lack of goals and chance creation all put undue pressure on the defence and the keeper. we concede and we know its highly unlikely we'll get back into it because unless Suarez does something special we'll never score.

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Re: Pepe Reina: Out of form or lost his touch?
« Reply #2087 on: November 29, 2012, 09:49:23 am »
It's hard to be sure from the camera shot behind the goal whether it deflected off Henderson or not. I wouldn't trust anyone's good faith if they said they could definitely say one way or the other. What is certain though is that the flight of the ball abruptly changes after the first ten yards. If you look at the ball's trajectory as it leaves Bale's foot it's perfectly understandable why Pepe started moving to his left. The abrupt change of direction would have left any keeper in the world in difficulty. I still believe that such a severe change of direction is probably attributable to the ball glancing of Henderson's head. There again Bale is the consummate technician. The way he puts his foot through the ball - whether it's standing or rolling - is sublime. So it's also possible he got the extravagant curve he was looking for.
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Re: Pepe Reina: Out of form or lost his touch?
« Reply #2088 on: November 29, 2012, 10:21:03 am »
It's hard to be sure from the camera shot behind the goal whether it deflected off Henderson or not. I wouldn't trust anyone's good faith if they said they could definitely say one way or the other. What is certain though is that the flight of the ball abruptly changes after the first ten yards. If you look at the ball's trajectory as it leaves Bale's foot it's perfectly understandable why Pepe started moving to his left. The abrupt change of direction would have left any keeper in the world in difficulty. I still believe that such a severe change of direction is probably attributable to the ball glancing of Henderson's head. There again Bale is the consummate technician. The way he puts his foot through the ball - whether it's standing or rolling - is sublime. So it's also possible he got the extravagant curve he was looking for.
I slowed it down and watched it a few times over. Henderson deflects it. Bale hits it well, but his Ronaldo shit in my shorts impressions really get on my wick.
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Offline Zlen

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Re: Pepe Reina: Out of form or lost his touch?
« Reply #2089 on: November 29, 2012, 10:48:24 am »
Only saw the first half and although he conceded two I didn't see much wrong with his performance.
Any good saves in the second half?

Offline The G in Gerrard

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Re: Pepe Reina: Out of form or lost his touch?
« Reply #2090 on: November 29, 2012, 10:56:45 am »
Every time we concede this thread will be bumped up whether he's at fault or not

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Re: Pepe Reina: Out of form or lost his touch?
« Reply #2091 on: November 29, 2012, 11:22:55 am »

Henderson and Bale look like a Before and After photo of each other.

That **** can really hit a ball.
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Offline WillyWonka

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Re: Pepe Reina: Out of form or lost his touch?
« Reply #2092 on: November 29, 2012, 11:33:51 am »
The ball takes an obvious deflection, even noticable from the gif. Here's another video of it, starts about 1:30,
http://videa.hu/videok/sport/tottenham-2-1-liverpool-hoofoot.com-hd-on-www.hoofoot.com-cpE7RPsTve4w7cdT?start=0.21



Then angle hear at 3:30 is the most noticable from me, you can see the ball spin change direction after the wall.
http://www.myspace.com/video/vid/109103503#pm_cmp=vid_OEV_P_P
« Last Edit: November 29, 2012, 11:38:01 am by WillyWonka »

Offline SmallwoodRed

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Re: Pepe Reina: Out of form or lost his touch?
« Reply #2093 on: November 29, 2012, 11:59:26 am »
Tottenham scored twice, therefore Reina was automatically at fault. The Reina of old/a top goalkeeper would've saved them. Isn't that how this thread goes post match?

Personally, thought he had a solid game.





Correct. Reina of '3 or 4 years ago' never let in any goals apparently and never made mistakes.

Reina of now lets in lots and should save everything. You've got the hang of this thread now.

You must make sure you use selective memory when making observations

Offline Chalky Boots

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Re: Pepe Reina: Out of form or lost his touch?
« Reply #2094 on: November 29, 2012, 12:23:41 pm »
Tottenham scored twice, therefore Reina was automatically at fault. The Reina of old/a top goalkeeper would've saved them. Isn't that how this thread goes post match?

Personally, thought he had a solid game.

Yep, some right nonsense being spouted IMO, he had no chance at it be it today or 2006.

Since he's came back he's impressed me.
I think it's down to a number of reasons:
-Looks in better shape.
-Isn't totally bald anymore.
-Is wearing Preds again.

Flapped at a couple of things but he looks more confident.

Offline Believe

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Re: Pepe Reina: Out of form or lost his touch?
« Reply #2095 on: November 29, 2012, 12:27:33 pm »
Correct. Reina of '3 or 4 years ago' never let in any goals apparently and never made mistakes. Reina of now lets in lots and should save everything. You've got the hang of this thread now.

Sad but true, so many bad bell ends around these days.

Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Pepe Reina: Out of form or lost his touch?
« Reply #2096 on: November 29, 2012, 12:44:59 pm »
How is Pepe not at fault here? The ball does not deflect off Henderson. Sure the wall could have been better, but how many keepers do you see get caught out that badly?
Are you insane? It's a fucking clear deflection. We're looking at the same gif, I'm using my eyes.

Offline Fat Scouser

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Re: Pepe Reina: Out of form or lost his touch?
« Reply #2097 on: November 29, 2012, 12:47:04 pm »
Are you insane? It's a fucking clear deflection. We're looking at the same gif, I'm using my eyes.
Andspecks, quite fitting that, eh.
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Offline Guz-kop

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Re: Pepe Reina: Out of form or lost his touch?
« Reply #2098 on: November 29, 2012, 12:52:54 pm »
Ball moved the moment it was in line with Henderson. It must've taken a little nick, no way can anyone make the ball swerve like that the way Bale hit it. Either that or it was a massive fluke. Either way Pepe unlucky.
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Offline JohnHobbes

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Re: Pepe Reina: Out of form or lost his touch?
« Reply #2099 on: November 29, 2012, 01:00:57 pm »
Are you insane? It's a fucking clear deflection. We're looking at the same gif, I'm using my eyes.

We both have the same reaction each time. We try to see the supposed error(s), try again and again but fail to see it and give up, then try to debate why it wasn't an error, hit a brick wall and give up with a shake of the head.

See you here after the next game?

Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Pepe Reina: Out of form or lost his touch?
« Reply #2100 on: November 29, 2012, 01:08:19 pm »
We both have the same reaction each time. We try to see the supposed error(s), try again and again but fail to see it and give up, then try to debate why it wasn't an error, hit a brick wall and give up with a shake of the head.

See you here after the next game?
If we concede, I'm sure you'll see me here as I try and reason with people who are arguing that black is white. It's a clear deflection, couldn't be clearer. Look at the direction off the boot, it's straight at where Pepe is moving to.
You should go to andyspecksavers too mate ;D

Offline Stanfo

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Re: Pepe Reina: Out of form or lost his touch?
« Reply #2101 on: November 29, 2012, 01:30:53 pm »
Some of this is getting ridiculous now, keepers concede goals, it happens, as do keepers making mistakes. As the dad of a keeper, I analyse every goal my lad concedes and virtually every goal I see on the tv and sometimes you just have to hold your hands up and say it was either a good goal or a situation you could have no impact on.

Coaches, managers and scouts judge keepers on the overall impact they have on a teams performance. There are lots of different types of keepers and it is how these keepers fit into a teams style that determines a best fit. Very, very rarely is a keeper a complete package, a shot stopper, someone who dominates an area, an organiser or a great distributor, but for me recently Spanish keepers come closest to ticking all the boxes and at times Cassillas, Reina and Valdes have all come pretty close to perfection for short periods.

Other people certainly in this country see the Hart's, Butland's or Ruddy's as the way forward, big shot stoppers who are limited with their feet, but pull off the spectacular headline grabber and while I appreciate their ability, I much prefer someone who can sweep behind a high defense and start the attacks through playing as an extra defender. It is very hard to teach a big shot stopper to be a footballer, believe me I have spent nearly 10 years watching kids come into academies who can shot stop, but who are hopeless with their feet and soon get found out and binned.

Offline JohnHobbes

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Re: Pepe Reina: Out of form or lost his touch?
« Reply #2102 on: November 29, 2012, 01:39:14 pm »
If we concede, I'm sure you'll see me here as I try and reason with people who are arguing that black is white. It's a clear deflection, couldn't be clearer. Look at the direction off the boot, it's straight at where Pepe is moving to.
You should go to andyspecksavers too mate ;D

I will too and I keep coming back when I try to resist. Already posted a lot on this late last night and how it's unsavable but at this rate might have to unleash my P/S skills and the red and blue lines again which I'm sure no one wants! ;)

I just wish people would stop with the 'Pepe of the past would save it' chestnut.  It's just conjecture based off an idealised version that people remember but isn't measurable and just leads to "I think he would" vs "oh no he'd wouldn't" back and forth.

Offline Nana

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Re: Pepe Reina: Out of form or lost his touch?
« Reply #2103 on: November 29, 2012, 01:47:37 pm »
I think that this boards will be funny in the summer, once Pepe leaves and is replaced by someone like Jack Butland.

Offline Hazell

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Re: Pepe Reina: Out of form or lost his touch?
« Reply #2104 on: November 29, 2012, 01:50:00 pm »
I think that this boards will be funny in the summer, once Pepe leaves and is replaced by someone like Jack Butland.

Source?
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Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Pepe Reina: Out of form or lost his touch?
« Reply #2105 on: November 29, 2012, 02:16:06 pm »
I just wish people would stop with the 'Pepe of the past would save it' chestnut.  It's just conjecture based off an idealised version that people remember but isn't measurable and just leads to "I think he would" vs "oh no he'd wouldn't" back and forth.
Couldn't agree with you more on that score mate.

Offline subroc

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Re: Pepe Reina: Out of form or lost his touch?
« Reply #2106 on: November 29, 2012, 03:03:37 pm »
That Pepe of 3 years ago must have been the Spanish Gordon Banks...

Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: Pepe Reina: Out of form or lost his touch?
« Reply #2107 on: November 29, 2012, 03:07:19 pm »
That Pepe of 3 years ago must have been the Spanish Gordon Banks...

Three years ago Pepe would have met that Bale free-kick on the volley and released Sterling in on their goal, all in the blink of an eye.
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Offline subroc

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Re: Pepe Reina: Out of form or lost his touch?
« Reply #2108 on: November 29, 2012, 03:11:29 pm »
Three years ago Pepe would have met that Bale free-kick on the volley and released Sterling in on their goal, all in the blink of an eye.

And arrived in time to meet Sterling's cross with a header into the other side's goal...

Offline redhokie8

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Re: Pepe Reina: Out of form or lost his touch?
« Reply #2109 on: November 29, 2012, 03:46:19 pm »
Actually been a keeper my entire life, but thanks for the assumption. You are completely overcomplicating it in every degree. Pepe takes a split second to gauge where the ball is going, stays put. Makes an easy catch. As his starting position was exactly where the ball went in from. Instead he made a move too early and was caught in no man's land. That shot was hardly unstoppable, you see them being saved all the time by keepers when it's shot directly at them like that. It was a mild shot that was well put on target. Find me a keeper in the league who gets caught out like that in the league, it won't be easy. He moved too early and ends up flapping a hand out. I never once said I expected him to double back and save it. I expected his decision making to be better. Soft goal to concede.

Ha that's not over complicating it that's the proper technique. If he waits as you're saying and the ball does't swerve or deflect he's getting beat to his left. If you don't know what you're doing I suppose you could wait and save it because you don't know how to play the position.

Offline Chalky Boots

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Re: Pepe Reina: Out of form or lost his touch?
« Reply #2110 on: November 29, 2012, 03:58:43 pm »
I think that this boards will be funny in the summer, once Pepe leaves and is replaced by someone like Jack Butland.

You won't see Jack Butland in a Liverpool kit unless he learns how to kick a ball.


What is it with football today?

Why doesn't he save every shot? Why doesn't he score every chance? Why doesn't he play well every game? Why don't we win every tackle? Why don't we win every game?

I'm all for reaching for the sky but I'm also realistic, you can't do any of them 100% of the time. Fact is keepers can't save everything,strikers can't score everything yada yada you get the point.

Our fans (more-so than most other clubs) seem to have this obsession for looking for a scapegoat for everything when,in events like these, it just happens with no-one to blame. Certainly not Reina anyway.

Offline Malaysian Kopite

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Re: Pepe Reina: Out of form or lost his touch?
« Reply #2111 on: November 29, 2012, 03:58:48 pm »
And arrived in time to meet Sterling's cross with a header into the other side's goal...
;D
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Re: Pepe Reina: Out of form or lost his touch?
« Reply #2112 on: November 29, 2012, 04:03:20 pm »
Not his fault, no way.

This

Any GK would be anticipating Bales shot to curl inward and to Reina's left, as he did.  There is NO WAY Bale intended for the kick to go to Reina's right.
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Re: Pepe Reina: Out of form or lost his touch?
« Reply #2113 on: November 29, 2012, 08:06:23 pm »
We can talk about whether he could have done any better for Tottenham's second goal but thats just the thing, Pepe of old used to make saves that wern't expected of him. He was one of the best goalies in the Premiership if not the best because of that very fact. Casillas and Buffon were the same along with Torres & Gerrard in their prime, goals out of nothing to win you games.

Other than routine saves, i don't really expect Reina to pull out anything extraordinary. Hope he can rediscover his old form.

Talking about deflections, this link reminds me just how underated Al Habsi is...

http://www.101greatgoals.com/gvideos/save-of-the-season-contender-ali-al-habsis-brilliant-reaction-to-deflected-charlie-adam-free-kick-wigan-2-stoke-2/
« Last Edit: November 29, 2012, 08:25:06 pm by Zawk »

Offline WillyWonka

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Re: Pepe Reina: Out of form or lost his touch?
« Reply #2114 on: November 30, 2012, 09:38:32 am »
We can talk about whether he could have done any better for Tottenham's second goal but thats just the thing, Pepe of old used to make saves that wern't expected of him. He was one of the best goalies in the Premiership if not the best because of that very fact. Casillas and Buffon were the same along with Torres & Gerrard in their prime, goals out of nothing to win you games.

Other than routine saves, i don't really expect Reina to pull out anything extraordinary. Hope he can rediscover his old form.

Talking about deflections, this link reminds me just how underated Al Habsi is...

http://www.101greatgoals.com/gvideos/save-of-the-season-contender-ali-al-habsis-brilliant-reaction-to-deflected-charlie-adam-free-kick-wigan-2-stoke-2/


He had a howler against City the other night.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2012, 09:40:09 am by WillyWonka »

Offline Caligula?

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Re: Pepe Reina: Out of form or lost his touch?
« Reply #2115 on: November 30, 2012, 09:44:35 am »


I defended him initially, but the more I see it the more I'm starting to think that he has to take the blame. He didn't have to move to save it, but it seems as if his mind was already made up to go to his left. It's poor decision making more than anything.

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Re: Pepe Reina: Out of form or lost his touch?
« Reply #2116 on: November 30, 2012, 09:52:03 am »
I still can't tell 100 percent if its swerve, which i think it is, or a deflection. The thing thats strange to me is how late he seems to react. Its actually over the wall and starting to go the other way before he starts to go to his left.

Offline Chakan

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Re: Pepe Reina: Out of form or lost his touch?
« Reply #2117 on: November 30, 2012, 09:54:03 am »
I still can't tell 100 percent if its swerve, which i think it is, or a deflection. The thing thats strange to me is how late he seems to react. Its actually over the wall and starting to go the other way before he starts to go to his left.

It takes just over 2 seconds from kick to goal and i'm pretty sure that gif is slowed down. 2 seconds.

Offline Blarf

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Re: Pepe Reina: Out of form or lost his touch?
« Reply #2118 on: November 30, 2012, 09:55:47 am »
I defended him initially, but the more I see it the more I'm starting to think that he has to take the blame. He didn't have to move to save it, but it seems as if his mind was already made up to go to his left. It's poor decision making more than anything.

How is it poor decision making? If that's the case then you clearly think that keepers should wait a few seconds before making any attempt to save the ball. I wonder how that would work.

Offline Simplexity

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Re: Pepe Reina: Out of form or lost his touch?
« Reply #2119 on: November 30, 2012, 10:20:41 am »
Serious question; what if we played Reina in midfield?

He still has a sweet right peg, and he has trained at Barca so he knows what to do.

Put him next to Lucas who will do all the defensive work and just feed him balls so he can pass it 40 yards.

             Reina   Lucas

 Johnson      Gerrard   Enrique


Is our future midfield imo.