Topic: Ever the Optimist.

[FlashGordon]

After a night like tonight it can take a while to settle down and think rationally about what we have seen so far this season. So hard incidentally that I've decided to forgo being rational and focus on how fucking boss we truly are. The fact we aren't top of the league at the moment does dampen the mood of some but for us who like to think positively it really doesn't matter, gives us something to aim towards for the rest of the season. A challenge we should all feel that we can meet head on.

For a person like myself that wasn't around for the glory days of the early 70's through to the late 80's it can sometimes be a struggle to get excited about the prospect of winning a title. We have never seen it in our lifetime and we have been cruelly burned once or twice in the past so even though I disagree with these people it is understandable why some aren't so optimistic. I would usually question why people have such a negative outlook but it's time to forget about that and concentrate on the positives from this season and the direction the club is heading in general.

Firstly we have the right man in charge. The auld arses talk of following Shanks in to battle and that's genuinely how I feel about the current incumbent. Jurgen Klopp is fucking boss and he's ours. Forget for a second his incredible skills as a football man and focus on him as a person. We must be the luckiest team in the league when it comes to our manager, compared to some of the inept arseholes in charge of other clubs we are blessed to have him. I was a staunch fan of Rafa and Klopp is the first person we've had in a senior position at the club since him that I 100%  believe in to deliver us success.

When you look at the other clubs around us in the table and focus on how much they spend we really shouldn't be where we are. All the data favours the teams who spend the most on wages but sometimes in football something else takes over. We are no paupers but you get the sense with our team that it's not the amount we pay each individual that has led to this club being transformed from the team we saw nearly 6 years ago. We now have players who were earlier derided performing to a level we didn't know was capable and are playing the best football in the league. I'm not stupid and I don't believe we're going to win every game from now on, but I do believe we have a serious chance of winning the league and have every bit of faith in the current crop to get us over the line. We've spent years moaning about not being close to the summit and now we're nearly at the peak I implore everyone to believe once again.

I may be drunk and high on everything LFC after an injury time derby winner but fuck it we're the reds and if there was ever a time for everyone to be giddy it is the here and now. This is a thread for all the believers to share their hopes and dreams. Hope it reaches more pages than a post match thread after a defeat.

Enjoy Christmas and look forward to 2017, it could be the best year yet.

[Klippity Klopp]

[Yiannis]

Averaging 2.1 points per game which is only overshadowed by Chelsea's ridiculous 2.5 . This is really good and as Sean Rogers said on a TAW show, if we are at 60 points or more after 30 games then the title challenge will be on.

Besides that, if you can't see how good this team is or if you expect to wipe the floor with every team or score 4 goals each game, then there is not much to do to help you.

Up the Reds.

[Kekule]

Also worth remembering that we're the only team to have played 10 away games, which obviously also means we've played fewer home games than everyone else. We still have 12 home games to come.

It was important to stay in touch to see if we could try turn it into an advantage.

[FlashGordon]

Looking back in the cold light of day I still feel as elated as I did last night. Couldn't be looking forward to 2017 more, we're on for the treble 

[johnny74]

The most important thing to remember is that we have the best manager that anyone could ever hope for. And he chose us specifically. And he is amazing 99% of the time. It will probably never happen again in our lifetimes.

Whatever we win or don't win we should all try and savour every moment of it. Never take it for granted.

[FlashGordon]

The most important thing to remember is that we have the best manager that anyone could ever hope for. And he chose us specifically. And he is amazing 99% of the time. It will probably never happen again in our lifetimes.

Whatever we win or don't win we should all try and savour every moment of it. Never take it for granted.

Exactly, as I said before I'd follow the man in to battle.

[wige]

Sent this breakdown to a friend earlier. We're in a really strong position in my opinion:

Club      Homes       Aways            Top 6 fixtures played, points taken, top 6 left

Liverpool    7                 10                 4 played – 8 points taken, unbeaten. 4 homes left (everyone, except Utd), 2 aways (City, Utd)
Chelsea      8                 9                   5 played – 9 points taken, lost twice. 2 homes (Arsenal/City), 3 aways (Liv, Spurs, Utd)
Arsenal       8                9                    5 played – 5 points taken, lost twice. 2 homes (City/Utd), 3 aways (Liv, Chelsea, Spurs)
City            9                8                    4 played – 6 points taken, lost twice. 3 homes (Liv, Spurs, Utd), 3 aways (liv, Chelsea, Arsenal)
Spurs         9                8                    5 played – 5 points taken, lost twice. 3 homes (Chelsea, Arsenal, Utd), 2 aways (liv, City)
Utd            8                9                    5 played – 5 points taken, lost twice. 2 homes (Liverpool, Chelsea), 3 aways (Arsenal, City, Spurs)

Huge game against Chelsea on the 31st Jan. Goal should be to, at least, maintain the current gap until then.

[Salty Dog]

The most important thing to remember is that we have the best manager that anyone could ever hope for. And he chose us specifically. And he is amazing 99% of the time. It will probably never happen again in our lifetimes.

Whatever we win or don't win we should all try and savour every moment of it. Never take it for granted.

So much this. I never thought I could love a manager as much as I loved Rafa, but Klopp has me completely and totally under his spell. Up the hope-inspiring Reds!

[FlashGordon]

That looks really promising, despite being 6 points behind we're in a very good position to mount a serious title challenge. I'm actually confident that we'll have cut the 6 point gap a bit by the time we play Chelsea. They can't continue to spawn lucky 1-0s for the rest of the season.

[Always_A_Red]

I'm not at the point where I think we'll win the league (yet) but my god we all had a blast last night!  Its moments like that where you start to be think/believe that it could be possible. Those late goals that turn a point into three. You're absolutely bang on when you say that people have been burnt before and its heartbreaking when it doesn't come to fruition. I allowed myself to dream in 08/09 and in 13/14 and had the best fucking times in the stands that I've ever had. It may not have worked out the way we wanted and I was left absolutely heartbroken at the end of each season, but my fucking god did I wish I had the same season the year after when it all fell to shit! Lets just the ride and see where it takes us eh?

The team are playing well, we've got the best manager in the world and a group of players who will run through brick walls for him. Why cant we win the league? Chelsea will lose and when they do, I want to see if the wheels far off and the doubt creeps in.   

[Souness1]

Last night was fucking brilliant and it does genuinely feel to me that we will look back on that game in however long as very significant in one way or another. Whatever negative that has been thrown at us since the start of the season we have put to bed emphatically; consistently slipping up against the small teams, not keeping clean sheets, cant grind out 1-0s. The new theme now seems to be we are on a downward trajectory in performance levels as though anyone could keep our early form going consistently . But you know what, keep em coming because ive never had more faith in a football team and manager than this. I loved Rafa as much as anyone possibly could and the football we played at times under him was so effective when on song, but I always had a slight doubt as to if we had it right mentally to clinch a title.

Sounds odd but the fact that Chelsea are 6 points ahead and won 11 games on the trot really suits me (and us imo) at the minute. People are waxing lyrical about the efficiency of them and it seems to be widely acknowledged that Chelsea should go on to win the league fairly comfortably. They are a great side and have a really likable manager but they have peaked too early for me, weather they drop off enough to let us have a proper sniff who knows but we are in a great position. Being top at Xmas and you get all these stats about how 999 out of the last 1000 teams at xmas have gone on to win the league and all that and it brings unwanted pressure. Bollocks to that. We are in a position whereby we are not considered very serious title contenders currently so we havent got that unwanted pressure and imo that will really suit us going into the second half of the season. Let everyone keep wanking Chelsea off, because they will have a blip sooner or later and I have every faith in our manager and team that we will be there to pounce.

[redk84]

if we are at 60 points or more after 30 games then the title challenge will be on.

To get to 60 points after 30 games from the position we are currently in would mean we need 2.08 ppg

Which is very do-able....no reason to think we cant do that given we have had tougher fixtures in this first part of the season.

Only thing I worry about is Mane going.....he is integral to the way we attack. He's been involved in most of our goals so we'll need to get results by hook or by crook when he's not around and hope he can return in good shape. Saying that we've done ok since Coutinho has left and we have him to return as well as Sturridge....

Lots of work to do but have enjoyed this season so far....doing maths, loving our play, but not expecting anything yet. Quietly optimistic 

[ToneLa]

Our fixtures, particularly the last several, are generally, on paper, with all the caveats that entails, if you're dreaming of picking up many a set of 3 points... as doable as Emily Ratajkowski

We didn't fluff our very difficult start to the season. Our brains are programmed negatively; we spot danger, we notice aberration in a pattern... but I'm very happy with us so far this season and there's buckets of optimism in my little head   

[cdav]

Sent this breakdown to a friend earlier. We're in a really strong position in my opinion:

Club      Homes       Aways            Top 6 fixtures played, points taken, top 6 left

Liverpool    7                 10                 4 played – 8 points taken, unbeaten. 4 homes left (everyone, except Utd), 2 aways (City, Utd)
Chelsea      8                 9                   5 played – 9 points taken, lost twice. 2 homes (Arsenal/City), 3 aways (Liv, Spurs, Utd)
Arsenal       8                9                    5 played – 5 points taken, lost twice. 2 homes (City/Utd), 3 aways (Liv, Chelsea, Spurs)
City            9                8                    4 played – 6 points taken, lost twice. 3 homes (Liv, Spurs, Utd), 3 aways (liv, Chelsea, Arsenal)
Spurs         9                8                    5 played – 5 points taken, lost twice. 3 homes (Chelsea, Arsenal, Utd), 2 aways (liv, City)
Utd            8                9                    5 played – 5 points taken, lost twice. 2 homes (Liverpool, Chelsea), 3 aways (Arsenal, City, Spurs)

Huge game against Chelsea on the 31st Jan. Goal should be to, at least, maintain the current gap until then.

I think our home form is going to be the key determinant of where we finish and if we are in the title race at the end: 37 points on the board so far with 12 home matches remaining. Win ten of our home matches and we have got to be looking at mid 80s points which will have us right in the mix, I think it will be 85-87 points to win it this season.

[ToneLa]

If we're gonna win the title because one of our rivals fluff their lead, bigtime, I'm more than happy for that team to be Chelsea!

[MerseysideBrum]

If we're gonna win the title because one of our rivals fluff their lead, bigtime, I'm more than happy for that team to be Chelsea!

They fluffed a better lead than this in 2013/14 people seem to forget. Essentially a very similar team also.

APLT from MARCH 2013/14

[d1ward]

Yep, there are plenty of reasons to be happy with the season so far. Let's just see how many games we can win, put pressure on Chelsea, and whatever happens I think the season will be a success in the grand scheme of things.

[ToneLa]

The problem is it is only ever decided one game at a time, so I'm not dreaming quite yet, but I'm closer to red, red dreams than two shades of blue nightmares 

[Sheer Magnetism]

I said at the start of the season that if were near the top four after 10 games I'd fancy us for a CL spot but I never thought we'd outdo that the way we did. I'd like some decent back up on the flanks in January but otherwise we look all right. We also have by far the easiest run-in so if we're in touching distance on April Fool's Day it may well be on.

[Syntexity]

I genuinely feel excatic about Liverpool the way we are playing most of our games, of course there will be downs and we cant win every game. Its impossible, but pretty much every game we are so lucky to be entertained by attacking and intense football. Its really a joy. I honestly dont think to much about winning the title this year, although I feel that we have a very good chance if we can keep our form throughout the season. We are usually better in the second half of the season, if that is the case this year as well I am confident we can win the league.

Chelsea do look strong, so they are quite clealry favourites, which I think suits us. We havent had much joy from leading and trying to hold on, we are better at chasing. So maybe its better to take over the lead in the late stages of the season. Hope is there, but either way, if we can land a top three (even top 4) spot, you cant deny that its been a successful season and a massive progress. I think we will continue to grow and improve under Jurgen, so have a feeling the title will come at some point either way.

Coming to Liverpool in february to finally see a game again, Liverpool vs. Spurs. Cant wait!

[Bergersrightwingviews]

We are in a fantastic position and we should aim for first, but worth noting that given the enormous expenditure of Chelsea, Man Utd and Man City and the strength of Spurs and Arsenal's squads even top four would be an incredible achievement and we are really well-placed for that now.

[Souness1]

We are in a fantastic position and we should aim for first, but worth noting that given the enormous expenditure of Chelsea, Man Utd and Man City and the strength of Spurs and Arsenal's squads even top four would be an incredible achievement and we are really well-placed for that now.

Absolutely. Top 4 was always the aim.

[Marty 85]

Anything is possible and I never agreed when the majority said Leicester couldn't win the league last year so theoretically Chelsea could walk the league without  a bad spell but I don't feel that's possible. I'm enjoying where we are right now as a club and everything that's happening along the way but I do feel we can win the league this year. Anything is possible.

[Red Beret]

If we're honest, a CL slot and a cup would probably have been enough for most of us at the start of the season.  But we're on the edge of a title challenge, likely years ahead of what any of us expected.  I'm loving the resurgence of belief, and Klopp's reminders to us all of what it means to be a Liverpool supporter.

We're still dropping silly points - the hallmark of all our failed challenges - but even though we're in 2nd place we're still a point better off than 13/14, so by God we're going to push Chelsea to the last throw.

It bugs me no end that, in these seasons we challenge, there always seems to be another club who experiences a ridiculously strong run of form also.  But we're not a flash in the pan Leicester.  This time Klopp is keeping us up there, in the mix, season after season.  The opposition can't stay strong forever, and it will make it all the sweeter that we won it the hard way.

[Petadroli]

If we're honest, a CL slot and a cup would probably have been enough for most of us at the start of the season.  But we're on the edge of a title challenge, likely years ahead of what any of us expected.  I'm loving the resurgence of belief, and Klopp's reminders to us all of what it means to be a Liverpool supporter.

We're still dropping silly points - the hallmark of all our failed challenges - but even though we're in 2nd place we're still a point better off than 13/14, so by God we're going to push Chelsea to the last throw.

It bugs me no end that, in these seasons we challenge, there always seems to be another club who experiences a ridiculously strong run of form also.  But we're not a flash in the pan Leicester.  This time Klopp is keeping us up there, in the mix, season after season.  The opposition can't stay strong forever, and it will make it all the sweeter that we won it the hard way.

Yes, but we were also top by Christmas with 36 points in 13/14 and the reason for our title challenge was the 11-match winning run from February to April. I don't know which poster it was, maybe PhaseOfPlay, who said that every team who wins the title has at least an 8-match winning run in a season. The obvious exception to that was Leicester last season, but the league was incredibly weak (Leicester won with 81 points, second-placed Arsenal only with 71 points) and Leicester had two long runs of going unbeaten (10-match run from matchday 8 to 17 and a 12-match run from matchday 27 to 38). This season when the league is once again very strong, we need to have at least one long run of wins to get the title, like Chelsea are doing right now.

I share your sentiment though, we are up there to stay there.

[redk84]

Leicester had two long runs of going unbeaten (10-match run from matchday 8 to 17 and a 12-match run from matchday 27 to 38). This season when the league is once again very strong, we need to have at least one long run of wins to get the title, like Chelsea are doing right now.

we've had one run of 11 games unbeaten between our losses...

We'd need another mostly made up of wins then. And it needs to be better than what Chelsea can conjure up next half of the season...

I know we're 2nd but reckon at this point we've done so well and similar results in the new year and we'll be right in the mix

[SerbianScouser]

Things are so massively distorted right now and it's all because we're competing against a team that wins 13 times in a row without breaking a sweat. We can't compete with that , nobody can. That's why huge disappointment after today's result doesn't make sense in a grand scheme of things because 44 pts after 20 games for a team that was 8th last season is a phenomenal return.

If they keep on winning there's nothing we or anyone else can do about it because we are right now on a level that guarantees you a legitimate title challenge any given year.

[sms1986]

With Klopp, I think we'll be challenging for the title or at least top four every season that he's here. Chelsea aren't that far ahead of us, and as it has been said, it must be annoying for them for us to still be so close behind them.

[jillcwhomever]

With Klopp, I think we'll be challenging for the title or at least top four every season that he's here. Chelsea aren't that far ahead of us, and as it has been said, it must be annoying for them for us to still be so close behind them.

Is right, and in truth there is still a chance. Chelsea will drop some points before the end of the season. We just have to make sure we are there to take advantage.

[Alf]

I feel like an Evertonians cat after the Derby a fortnight ago.

[Cormack Snr]

Is right, and in truth there is still a chance. Chelsea will drop some points before the end of the season. We just have to make sure we are there to take advantage.

You mean like today. We are not quite up to it, we are doing well and better than we all thought but one or two are not good enough..

[jillcwhomever]

You mean like today. We are not quite up to it, we are doing well and better than we all thought but one or two are not good enough..

It was always going to be a struggle today, especially with the injuries sustained. I totally refuse to give up, Chelsea are going to hit on some bad games, injuries, suspensions. Also we will have Phil coming back shortly. I just don't get why people are so quick to give up after a setback.

[Gerry83]

It was always going to be a struggle today, especially with the injuries sustained. I totally refuse to give up, Chelsea are going to hit on some bad games, injuries, suspensions. Also we will have Phil coming back shortly. I just don't get why people are so quick to give up after a setback.

Some may be giving up but i think the majority of us are realizing that a result like this can be the difference between being in with a great shout and unlikely.

If youre trying to chase a team down you need to win your games against lesser opposition. Put the pressure on and hope that they dont get the result in their more difficult game. Thats why its so frustrating to lose points from the winning positions we were in this season.

[jillcwhomever]

Some may be giving up but i think the majority of us are realizing that a result like this can be the difference between being in with a great shout and unlikely.

If youre trying to chase a team down you need to win your games against lesser opposition. Put the pressure on and hope that they dont get the result in their more difficult game. Thats why its so frustrating to lose points from the winning positions we were in this season.

While I know what you mean, this Chelsea squad won the title two years ago. This is Klopps first full season.  How many of  us expected to be in the position of a title win this season? I would say most of us would have hoped for a top four finish and been happy with that. But thanks to the great start we made, we are in this position now. Therefore all things considered we are doing brilliantly. You also have to add that Chelsea  have had little in the way of injuries while we have had to reguarly change our back four, say nothing of losing Phil for a good month. All in all I would say Klopp and this team have done fantastically up to now. So I will continue to believe in the impossible until it is mathimatically impossible for us to win! No one will convince me otherwise. Which is why this is the ever the optimist thread. 

[Nick110581]

Chelsea haven't played yet. If Spurs win then it is a point gained.

[bornandbRED]

I'll be honest - my head is gone after today. Especially with Spurs and United regaining form and the tough fixtures we have coming up. I just hope we don't implode.

[Red_Rich]

I must admit to being a little fucked off earlier, especially with the Mancs getting another scruffy win.

But I've had a few glasses of Bailey's and I'm feeling a bit chippier since I've seen the Pep meltdown.  Now that WAS amusing.

It's good to see managers getting their knickers in a twist as they scramble around below us.

Get Phil back and Matip back into the equation and I'm confident we'll get our mojo going again.

Today's result sucked but from Boro onwards it's been a great response to the Bournemouth game and if Chelsea hadn't been in such a freak of form (which WILL come to an end - as will United's) we'd be sat on top pretty.

Upwards and onwards guys .... things like today always happen. Deal with it and power forward.  We are a very good team.  We were tired today. Because we run our bones into the ground EVERY game, not just when we feel like it.

[gatcliffe]

We need to keep our foot on the gas big time, am little concerned about Man U coming into frame especially having to play them and Spurs over next 5 games for me these games will have a massive say.

[Zeb]

I'm just enjoying the season. The football's been very good. Klopp is super. We're doing more than alright in the league. Game at a time and see what the points total is after 38 games. Seems soft to be so angsty about results of other teams that you can't enjoy what Klopp's doing with us, or even worse can't really get behind it.