Author Topic: Rafael Benitez: Early Progress Report  (Read 11747 times)

Offline Paul Tomkins

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Rafael Benitez: Early Progress Report
« on: September 8, 2004, 02:46:28 pm »
If there's one thing Liverpool Football Club needs right now, after a period of great flux, it is a period of stability. In all areas: and that includes the fans. Unstable fans: cut back on your caffeine intake, find a dark room, and attempt some deep-breathing exercises. Stable fans: keep the faith, and have patience; hell, you're probably doing that already.

Since May, we've lost a good (but ultimately flawed) manager and gained who I believe to be the right man to lead us forward. Not only that, but the entire coaching staff was overhauled, including the unavoidable loss, to the English national set-up, of Sammy Lee, who many reckoned would get a key role under Rafa. We've lost the man who was our top-scorer for every season since 1997/98 - a former European Footballer of the Year, no less - and came perilously close to losing our best player to southern rivals. The club was centre of a financial battle which generated a lot of column inches in the papers, but no money for the club. Players left, new ones arrived from France and Spain, but none with prior Premiership experience.

A thoroughly average start to the season has ensued: won one, drawn one, lost one, and clumsy passage into the Champions League proper. In league terms, Man United have actually made a worse start than Liverpool, with a lower points average over four games than we have over three.

Rafa faced some stark choices, and thankfully he has chosen to be bold. He could have bought (with our limited budget) average English/British Premiership players this summer (even yard-dogs like Robbie Savage, with their guaranteed effectiveness), or kept the slightly above-average Premiership players, and almost certainly overseen a better start to the season. Gerard Houllier, remaining in charge (in a parallel universe), could no doubt have done the same (although his ability to motivate had waned to dangerous levels). A little cosmetic surgery, and the side would have done okay. But who would have wanted that? - because the ability to do better than okay would have been severely hampered.

Metaphors can be clumsy, but I guess it's like a faulty Formula One car. If there are radical problems, you can get the mechanics to do a patch-up job to get it back on the track again; but it won't win the race - it will merely chug around, billowing smoke. If you want to fix it properly, replacing key components, and doing a full tune-up, that will take time. It's not something you can do in an instant, in a pit-stop.

Robbie Savage, as a valid example of the Bulldog Spirit some prefer, may look a more effective player than Xabi Alonso for a few weeks, while the latter adjusts to the game here. Savage does a job, much as he is mocked. But within a month or two, you will be comparing an over-revving Mini with a top of the range Ferrari. Isn't it better to go with long term quality ahead of short-term effectiveness? Players like Alonso and Cisse, both just 22, are seen as key to the future of national teams as talented as France and Spain. Whoever else Rafa might have signed, from England or the continent, it's hard to think they'd have more potential than Alonso or Cisse. It might just take time for that potential to come to fruition; and we need to give it time. We can't wait years, but we can surely wait months?

Rafa is rebuilding the side, not tweaking it. This is major work, despite some very special components inherited from the previous regime. Already, in a matter of two months, he has promoted Academy graduates, and signed four new Spaniards and (inherited) a new Frenchman, who have to get to know the way teammates play, while simultaneously adjusting to the Premiership (which takes more getting used to than any other league). Given the fact that he wisely chose, in pre-season, to assess his team first (to make sure he wasn't off-loading players with hidden potential) before acting in the transfer market, it meant that three signings arrived only after our season had started, and arrived from Spain, where the season had yet to start, and therefore physical conditioning levels at the time of their arrival were inevitably lower. They also didn't have those pre-season games to bed in away from the spotlight, and start the gelling process before things got serious.

It is no secret that the Arsenal trio of Bergkamp, Henry and Pires took several months to adjust to the game over here, with each being written off as a waste of money; and yet I'm sure each, for all the team trophies, has won the Player of the Year award. Look at Reyes this season, after nine months bedding in. He looks a different player, and has scored in every game (all but one in midfield). However, Arsenal have the luxury of not having to rely on Reyes (with Pires, Ljungberg and Pennant all capable of filling a wide role, and Bergkamp enjoying an Indian summer), as their Spaniard beds gently into a successful side. We have to rely on our new signings, as Benitez had to replace players who had proven to be not good enough, and one who chose a new challenge at Real Madrid.

We are fools if we do not give them time. Look at another late developer - a player with similar attributes to Djibril Cisse: Pompey's Yakubu. The Nigerian was seen as a bit of a joke figure for many months, and now - with four goals in one game at the end of last season to go with several other strikes after Christmas, and a hat-trick already this season - looks as good as anyone in the top division. If we go down the route of impatience (and I've seen many Liverpool fans suggesting Cisse was a waste of money, Garcia a lightweight luxury, and Alonso an unknown quantity), we could do what Juventus did to Thierry Henry - offloading a player after just 16 games, before he'd had time to settle. Had Arsenal done the same as he initially floundered, where would they be now? Cisse is a little raw, but he has the ability in front of goal to at least equal Owen's yearly totals; it might just take a while to get into his stride.

One problem facing our new players is that they are trying too hard. That might sound illogical to those who think football is 100% effort. But confidence as a sportsman is all about being relaxed. If you are too eager, or anxious, you cannot perform to your best levels. You cannot get into "the zone".

First, look at Cisse: he has tried to run with the ball and make an impression with his awesome pace, but has either overrun the ball or run into areas where defensive cover was strong; and yet once he's relaxed he'll be able to choose the right moments to run with the ball. He has snatched at a couple of shots, when in time he will tuck them cooly away, as he did so often for Auxerre.

Then there was Alonso against Bolton: the Spaniard was hugely impressive, and put in some Molby-esque 50-yard passes to feet which had me purring (as well as dealing well with some appalling late tackles). But he also went through a phase of trying too many of these passes when there wasn't much chance of them coming off (thankfully, he is mature beyond his years, and got back to more simple passes; once the other players realise his passing ability, they can make more daring runs in the trust that they will be found).

Garcia was full of tricks and spins, but I sensed many of them were down to a case of showing the Liverpool fans what he could do, rather than hurting the opposition. When he did the turns and flicks in the final third, it was merely to be dangerous, and he came close to scoring on one occasion after flicking the ball around an opponent in the box, and actually did on another (thank you to the myopic linesman).

All three are quality additions to the side. Cisse's pace and finishing ability - seen in recent seasons in France (where he would have felt comfortable and relaxed in the side, and able to play his natural game) - will be a huge asset once he settles. Alonso's clever positioning and excellent use of the ball - long and short - will be a massive benefit to the way we play, as he can defend and attack. And Garcia's ability to make clever runs and ghost into goalscoring positions, coupled with his ability to create something with his skill, will help make our cutting edge all the sharper - unfortunately against Bolton, Baros failed to play Garcia in for what would have been two more goalscoring opportunites. Josemi is more of a 'steady' player rather than someone capable of the spectacular, but we've already seen glimpses of how good he can be. Nunez remains an unknown quantity, but he will give us options - if only in reserve - once fit.

But they are under a lot of pressure at a time when they are going through personal upheaval, learning a new language, and trying to fit into a new style of football, whilst gelling with teammates. You can understand these players being too anxious to impress. Anyone who's started a new job - even if in the same line of work as a previous one - knows how difficult it can be to find your feet. Imagine the pressure multiplied by the fact that several million people watching your every move. Yes, these are professionals. But they are also human. Judge these players, and the team, at the turn of the year.


So What is the Best We Can Hope For This Season?

This two week break has come at a terrible time, with the team under pressure. Rafa has had a mere handful of players to work with for the last ten days - Traore, Biscan, Hamann and Warnock, and I'm guessing at Garcia - and on Thursday, upon their return (assuming flights leave foreign shores on time), the players on international duty (including U21s like Pongolle) will be resting and stretching, not training. That leaves Friday. At least Rafa can study the games we've played in detail to further analyse where we've been going wrong, but it leaves little time to work on the mistakes this time around.

West Brom, who are already a more tightly-knit group (mostly the same squad as last season, and the same manager), will doubtless have had a far bigger contingent at training - to work on spoiling tactics, as lesser sides rightly do (from their point of view) ahead of coming to Anfield. Of course, we should be beating teams like West Brom at home. But it has to be a 'leveller' if one team gets to prepare for a game and the other doesn't - especially as the one thing Rafa needs in order to affect improvements is time on the training ground. Greece proved that it's easy to stop good teams with good organisation. It will take Rafa time to get our organisation to the level where we can relax and let our superior flair players win these kind of games.

In many ways, Rafa has to learn what we, the fans, already know: we've seen 80% of this squad week-in, week-out, for a number of years now. We know their weaknesses, their strengths. The mental approach of the team needs improving, and that will take time. The team seems entrenched in an inability to rouse itself against lesser opposition. It also has to learn how to keep the ball when leading so that the opposition are rendered impotent. Rafa will be addressing these issues.

To me, it is clear that this is no usual year. Arsenal are on the best run of games in English league football history - an unbeaten season, followed by a quite stunning start to the new campaign. We are playing catch-up with a team breaking all sorts of records; not a relatively 'average' championship-winning side like Leeds or Blackburn (who proved their "averageness" with truly awful title defences the following season), or, comparatively-speaking, the worst-vintage Liverpool and Man U title-winning sides. What this Arsenal team have achieved, domestically, is up there with the Liverpool sides of 1977, 1984, and 1988, and the Man U side of 1999. Arsenal are at the top of their powers, playing with the kind of self-belief and expressiveness that you just cannot instill in a side overnight.

Arsenal are, to my mind, a miraculous side - perfectly balanced, with Wenger's labours over the last eight years bearing fruit. Wenger was able to win the title here within 18 months as he inherited a fully-functioning strikeforce of Bergkamp and Ian Wright, plus the famed defensive unit upon which earlier titles had been constructed. Wenger's ideas were revolutionary in 1996. His side is so good now as he was ahead of the game back then, and has been able to tweak a little here, add a little flair there, and oversee a stunning evolution. And yet in October 2001, after three years of finishing runners-up (success by Arsenal's standards over the majority of the last few decades, but seen then as a sign of stagnation), Arsenal were languishing eighth and Wenger was a spent force. I know: I heard Gooners on 606 tell the world as much.

Nowadays, it's impossible for a manager at a big club to have that kind of cultural impact and turn donkeys into free-thinking ball-playing liberos, and to be alone in mining the European backwaters for hidden gems, such as Patrick Vieira, rotting in Milan's reserves; nowadays, all managers do that. Even Sam Allardyce - a clod-hopping English centre back from the 1970s - manages using specialised fitness coaches, psychologists, dieticians, alternative medicines, and so on.

At Liverpool, Gerard Houllier had made all these beneficial changes; it still left us short, so action was required. Benitez cannot come in and have an instant impact in that sense. The players were already ultra-professional (with one or two exceptions, such as Diouf, now shown the door), so it was more a case of tinkering with things on the pitch, not off it. Those changes include adding width to the side, defending higher up the pitch (not easy without pace at the back) and getting back to attractive (but potent) possession football. The latter is not something that suddenly clicks into gear overnight, but the second half against Man City proved the potential is there. Consistency will only come once it has become second nature to the players.

Chelsea, meanwhile, have spent £200m in 12 months, with - for the first time ever - no limits to a club's spending power. What problems did Mourinho have to solve even before he gave his chairman a list of players to sign? Not many, and the squad has been bolstered by nearly £100m this summer. We've spent with relative largesse by previous standards, but £32m looks small change compared to Abramovich's expenditure. William Gallas has been one of the best centre backs in recent seasons in this country, and can't get a game.

They didn't get Steven Gerrard, thankfully, and we should appreciate our captain and stop worrying that he might leave next summer; surely when he agreed to stay, he wasn't under the illusion that the team would transform into championship material within a month? Are we saying he's that stupid? Now Madrid are rumoured to be lining up a bid next summer; if they do, so be it. The lure might be too much for Steven, but they won't get him on the cheap. We'll cross that bridge if we ever come to it. As for him looking miserable - well, he smiled pretty widely after scoring against Man City, and if fans expected him to be happy during the two subsequent defeats, then surely we are talking about a different player? (Just think of all those times Roy Keane looked unhappy during the 1990s, as he strove for perfection).

Both London high-flyers were already well ahead of us (20-30 points, as well as making the quarter-finals of the CL) before this season even started. In some senses, Rafa - even once he has re-built the side - will be sending his Formula One car onto the track several laps behind the competition. Even Man United, who have had their worst start to a season for many years, have been able to go out and spend £27m on a striker, while awaiting a £29m defender to return from suspension. Our entire strike-force cost just over half a "Rooney", and they can also field £6m Smith, £13m Saha, and £19m Van Nistelrooy.

If we can finish ahead of any one of these three sides, we'll have had a very good season. One aim for this transitional season has to be to finish behind no other team than those three (distinctly possible, once the anomalies of an early-season table disappear) and in finishing fourth at worst try to make sure we end up with a more respectable points tally than last time. It is almost impossible to make much more of an impact than that.

The other aim has to be to make sure that, come May, Rafa has assembled a well-oiled machine which can begin the following season capable of mounting a serious challenge from the starting grid. Where Rafa has his work cut out is in the fact that last season's top three already ally a hard-working ethic to a possession football game - which can also counter-attack at pace (Chelsea's early-season tactics notwithstanding; it's hard to believe once Robben and Duff are fully fit they'll remain so dull). Madrid and Barcelona, for all their talent, were there to be beaten due to the lack of heart for a fight, and the over-reliance on attacking talent at the expense of decent defenders. Benitez's Valencia got the balance right. He needs to do the same at Liverpool, but purely to play catch-up.

So while his task is even harder at Liverpool, at the very least I trust he can make us competitive again. It may take time, but patience remains a virtue, and patience was something Liverpool fans used to be famed for.

© Paul Tomkins 2004

Offline cynicaloldgit

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Re: Rafael Benitez: Early Progress Report
« Reply #1 on: September 8, 2004, 03:33:34 pm »
An excellent article: meticulously planned and well written.

 :)
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Offline Ian-TN

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Re: Rafael Benitez: Early Progress Report
« Reply #2 on: September 8, 2004, 04:07:01 pm »
Superb piece as ever mate.

If there is ever something as a "good defeat" then the Bolton one was probably that. A defeat with positives. A defeat which did bring us all back down to earth on just how big a job this was. We all, I'd hope anyway, believe that what we see before this year is out is not what Rafa wants/expects to see in the coming seasons.

One point on the "over-trying". I said this the other day. Look for example at Owen when he went through his bad spells. He snatched at chances instead of just stickin' them away. Cisse hasn't yet really played his normal game as you said. He is still trying to justify to us why we spent that much money when in most cases he doesn't have to justify it right away.

We will have ups and downs on the way back towards the top, but I for one do believe that under Benny thats where we will be.
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Offline Barney_Rubble

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Re: Rafael Benitez: Early Progress Report
« Reply #3 on: September 8, 2004, 04:15:01 pm »

Great post. I'm certain we're at the dawn of a new era of greatness.

 :D
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Offline nidgemo

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Re: Rafael Benitez: Early Progress Report
« Reply #4 on: September 8, 2004, 04:30:35 pm »
then agai, they could all be shite.


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only joking - great article - fills me full of hope, but without over zealous expectation.
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Offline conrad-m

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Re: Rafael Benitez: Early Progress Report
« Reply #5 on: September 8, 2004, 04:45:20 pm »
Class as ever Paul.  ;) I've got a really good feeling about Benitez. I think he's had to deal with so much since he came here - but he hasn't moaned, he's just got on with it. He's also not afraid to make bold decisions - a very good sign of a decisiveness that will really pay off for Liverpool in the long run.

Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: Rafael Benitez: Early Progress Report
« Reply #6 on: September 8, 2004, 04:53:14 pm »
Cheers all, and cheers Conrad.  :wave

It's a good point about what Rafa's had to deal with. It's not been an easy baptism, but as you say, he's coped well.

Also, Ian, glad you agree about trying too hard. I know I did that when I stepped up to semi-pro from Sunday League. Took me a while to feel settled at that level, to feel I rightfully belonged there. It's as much about the pressure you put on yourself, and the standards you set yourself.

Offline Ian-TN

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Re: Rafael Benitez: Early Progress Report
« Reply #7 on: September 8, 2004, 05:14:40 pm »
Also, Ian, glad you agree about trying too hard. I know I did that when I stepped up to semi-pro from Sunday League. Took me a while to feel settled at that level, to feel I rightfully belonged there. It's as much about the pressure you put on yourself, and the standards you set yourself.

Aye. Mentally you need to adapt to this league and the expectations as well as physically. Something which never seems to get dicussed. We've all heard "is he strong enough?" but rarely heard "is he mentally right?".
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Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: Rafael Benitez: Early Progress Report
« Reply #8 on: September 8, 2004, 05:38:21 pm »


Aye. Mentally you need to adapt to this league and the expectations as well as physically. Something which never seems to get dicussed. We've all heard "is he strong enough?" but rarely heard "is he mentally right?".

I definitely think Alonso and Cisse are mentally tough enough.

In Cisse's case, he's had the security of coming into his only previous club (Auxerre) as a youth-team graduate, where there is less expectancy and less pressure. You are eased in. There is no fee to burden you. You adjust to the level, but you are already used to your teammates from training, and used to the style of play.

After a dozen or so games, he perhaps felt totally at home and totally comfortable. Now, he's expected to transfer that feeling of being totally at home into a new country, a new league, a new style of play, instantaneously. He's also got a big price tag. When he's not had time to think, he's looked quality (such as the Spurs goal). The problem comes when you have time, and you worry instead of acting instinctively. But he's a confident lad generally, so it should be bubbling its way to the surface.

But both of these lads are quality, and physically - and mentally - suited to the game here. It will just take them a little time.

Offline DonkeyWan

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Re: Rafael Benitez: Early Progress Report
« Reply #9 on: September 8, 2004, 05:59:20 pm »
Good article, counselling patience is always a positive I reckon. I heard some muppet on 606 say watching The Bolton game was like "watching Houllier" I wanted to phone in and tell him thats pretty much what he was doing, as you don't dismantle a five year plan in three weeks. However, while everyone else got all depressed about Bolton, I saw a lot of positives, namely that Benitez's new men looked a cut above the norm and will prove excellent players in time. Just a few points on the article.

1. While the two weeks off can be seen as a disadvantage, I think it will give Benitez time to gel with the second string/reserves and get them working in a positive direction. While getting the first team up to speed asap would be great, having two weeks now to quietly work on Biscan traore etc. could prove useful come Xmas when injuries/suspensions kick in.

2. Arsenal, are they as good as people make out? I don't think so, they never make me feel as scared/worried as United in the 90s. I get the feeling this is their heyday, and in a year or two, they will brgin to slide. They really don't have the financial clout of Chelsea or international exposure of United and Liverpool, well known outside of Europe. If they win a Champions league or two, that will change, but until then they will be known as a very good team (in some ways they remind of the Leeds side of the 70s, almost underachieving for their potential).
Beatings will continue until morale improves...

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Re: Rafael Benitez: Early Progress Report
« Reply #10 on: September 8, 2004, 06:05:33 pm »
Excellent opinion, put forward in a readible manner.

red-juvenated

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Re: Rafael Benitez: Early Progress Report
« Reply #11 on: September 8, 2004, 06:06:41 pm »
Benitez is going about it the right way in that he's preparing a team that will be contenders for the PL next season. The important thing is to get the team 'established' by the later half of this season, and give all opponents a fight for the points.

The thing about trying too hard has carried on from last year when too many poor results got their backs against the walls and they all tried too hard and in the end, the tension got the better of them. A good run of games is needed to give them the confidence to relax and ONLY then will they be able to settle down.

Will enjoy watching them develop through this season.


Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: Rafael Benitez: Early Progress Report
« Reply #12 on: September 8, 2004, 06:08:06 pm »
Always handy to work with the reserves, but I guess that's not going to help the team over the coming weeks. Helpful long-term, though.

As for Arsenal, they are in awesome form WITHOUT Campbell and Vieira - the strength to their spine!

I think United in the 1990s had it easier - now there's a lot more competition at the top. Rafa could make this Liverpool team great again, and we could still finish fourth! (Hopefully higher, mind). United in the late 90s were "nastier", but Arsenal play better football, with more attacking options, and still don't concede many. They don't need to win the CL to be considered any better domestically, in my opinion. They just need to keep winning games.

Offline Fairytale of 2005

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Re: Rafael Benitez: Early Progress Report
« Reply #13 on: September 8, 2004, 07:00:07 pm »
Great article full of good, educated points of view. My faith has been restored after reading more than a few OTT comments & knee jerk reactions on here in the last couple of months.

Offline Mottman

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Re: Rafael Benitez: Early Progress Report
« Reply #14 on: September 8, 2004, 10:38:08 pm »
Cracking read, was considering doing something along the same lines myself (but it wouldn't have been as  good as this).

Onwards and upwards.
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Offline wacko

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Re: Rafael Benitez: Early Progress Report
« Reply #15 on: September 8, 2004, 11:51:55 pm »
DISCLAIMER: I am not sober.

As always, beautifully written and spot-on.

Going from the article and other comments, I have to agree that though Rafa is undoubtedly the man to take us forward, it won't be easy. Competing with teams which have (almost) bottomless pockets (M a n u r e, C h e l s k i) is not easy. But Wenger has proved that a quality manager truly makes all the difference. Arsenal are the team to beat, and they have less cash than we do. I truly think Rafa is a manager in the Wenger mould. He has the quality to build a better team than other managers with x times the cash. And judging by his Valencia team, we will soon (year or two) be the most fluid, exciting team in the Premiership to boot.

You can't expect much this year, especially as we're starting the campaign with so many new, foreign players who need to get used to the Premiership. But the player's he's bought are quality. Cisse, too. I think most of them can hack it and will bloom in the coming months.

Sure, you can do what Bolton has done (like many other wannabes, e.g. Middlesboro) and buy proven, world-class players who are past their prime and therefore not good enough for their previous clubs (Real and similar), but Rafa is building a team for the future based on young players of the finest quality. There's always a place for veteran stars (he's bald, he's old, he's worth his weight in gold etc...), but you can't build a team around guys you're going to have to replace in a year or two (like Bolton). You need to start with players who have great potential and let them grow under your guidance into the the greatest team in the land, like Fergie and Wenger did, not like C h e l s k i want to do. This is about having a great manager like Wenger or Rafa, not about endless pots of money a la C h e l s k i. Also, they're as boring as spending an evening with me when I'm sober.

P.S. Why does the forum changes "C h e l s k i" to "chelsea" and "M a n u r e" to "the Mancs"? It's not as if they're swear words. Firstly, I always thought of "the Mancs" as Manchester City, and also, "chelsea" should really have a capital "c". Secondly "Manc c*nts" (with "u" not "*") is acceptable (as is "w*nky tr*fford b*stards" in full). Plus, you don't change "Manchester City" to "City". Please, if you're consistent you can get away with murder, but if you're not, it's just oppression.
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Offline Barney_Rubble

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Re: Rafael Benitez: Early Progress Report
« Reply #16 on: September 9, 2004, 12:21:48 am »

Arsenal, are they as good as people make out? I don't think so, they never make me feel as scared/worried as United in the 90s.

I don't reckon they are either, we've pretty much owned Arsenal the last 15 years. Wenger couldn't get a win for love or money. Only fucking shit refs.

And then again Houllier owned Everton and Man U too, pretty much, which is no mean feat for any Liverpool manager.

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Offline Barney_Rubble

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Re: Rafael Benitez: Early Progress Report
« Reply #17 on: September 9, 2004, 12:25:09 am »

C h e l s k i

Apparently it was coined by a certain tabloid newspaper...

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Offline El mooro

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Re: Rafael Benitez: Early Progress Report
« Reply #18 on: September 9, 2004, 01:14:39 am »
The best article you have written.

Quality.

Only one lapse in one of your replies !;)

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Offline reds88

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Re: Rafael Benitez: Early Progress Report
« Reply #19 on: September 9, 2004, 03:29:55 am »

Great piece of work!   ;)

Well since I've waited for sooo long for another Championship what's another year.   ::)

For this year hopefully we'll be able to enjoy the journey to build another great team.   This is a young team
when in full bloom will be a sight to behold when supplemented by the future signings by Rafa.

While I hope the new boys will blend and settle in, I'm beginning to realize that it's even harder to
settle when the 'old' boys are trying to learn new things as well!. 

Cheers from the LFC fans in Singapore.

Offline mercury

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Re: Rafael Benitez: Early Progress Report
« Reply #20 on: September 9, 2004, 03:58:59 am »
Cheers, Paul.   Always make me feel better after readng your articles. ;)

The second para summed up our upheaval this summer.  We are in a flux, and it's not only about the squad, Even Parry is under rumour  of a transfer!  ::)   Telegraph reported today that Morgan is close to pulling out his bid after seeing our accounts - that the new stadium will cost 40m more.  It  is the last thing we want to hear, true or not (personally I took it with a pinch of salt, as Telegaprh has been very pro-Morgan).   Ironically, our new manager seems to be our only certainty right now.  He - the Club or just the team for some - needs every bit of our support so those of you lucky enough getting to matches week in week out please please please help carry them.

Expectation wise, I would like to see by the end of the season a team capable of challenging in the next season.  4th nowadays cannot be expectation, it is what we need.


Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: Rafael Benitez: Early Progress Report
« Reply #21 on: September 9, 2004, 08:41:16 am »
I don't reckon they are either, we've pretty much owned Arsenal the last 15 years. Wenger couldn't get a win for love or money. Only fucking shit refs.

And then again Houllier owned Everton and Man U too, pretty much, which is no mean feat for any Liverpool manager.



You must have fallen asleep after that glorious day in May 2001! I'm sure it's seven games (six league, one cup) since we've beaten Arsenal? All down to refereeing? Hmmm... (I seem to remember them beating us 2-1 at Anfield after Van Bronkhurst was - according to neutrals - harshly sent off).  'Owning' them doesn't involve finishing 30 points behind them, either.

By that same argument, Southampton are better than us - they did the double last season. Wolves are as good as us - they didn't lose to us home or away.

Sorry, but the only way to measure yourself against another team is in the league table. Were Everton better than us when under Joe Royle, merely because they beat us? I have no special affinity to Arsenal (other than they beat the Mancs to the title), but you have to applaud quality when you see it. Also, the more you accept how good these teams are, the better it will be when we eventually overtake them...



 ;D

Offline Redlady

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Re: Rafael Benitez: Early Progress Report
« Reply #22 on: September 9, 2004, 10:04:50 am »
Great article Paul  :wave I always thought this would be a bit of an up and down season as Rafa got settled, and that next season will be the one where we will be hopefully seriously challenging for things. This season should show improvements, and we've already seen glimpses of that, but we can't expect miracles (although some still do!)

Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: Rafael Benitez: Early Progress Report
« Reply #23 on: September 9, 2004, 10:25:52 am »
This season should show improvements, and we've already seen glimpses of that, but we can't expect miracles (although some still do!)


Some miracles would be nice, though! Traore as the new Franco Baresi, anyone?  ;)

Offline Barney_Rubble

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Re: Rafael Benitez: Early Progress Report
« Reply #24 on: September 9, 2004, 03:02:04 pm »

You must have fallen asleep after that glorious day in May 2001! I'm sure it's seven games (six league, one cup) since we've beaten Arsenal? All down to refereeing? Hmmm... (I seem to remember them beating us 2-1 at Anfield after Van Bronkhurst was - according to neutrals - harshly sent off).  'Owning' them doesn't involve finishing 30 points behind them, either.

By that same argument, Southampton are better than us - they did the double last season. Wolves are as good as us - they didn't lose to us home or away.

Sorry, but the only way to measure yourself against another team is in the league table. Were Everton better than us when under Joe Royle, merely because they beat us? I have no special affinity to Arsenal (other than they beat the Mancs to the title), but you have to applaud quality when you see it. Also, the more you accept how good these teams are, the better it will be when we eventually overtake them...

 :D well it was somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but Wenger couldn't buy a win over us for years. And the first 2 times he did win was helped massively by shite refereeing. I'm certain Arsenal only really worry in the Prem when they're up against Man U, Chelsea or US.

87:13

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Re: Rafael Benitez: Early Progress Report
« Reply #25 on: September 9, 2004, 04:45:26 pm »
I have to say, that is one of the best pieces of balanced writing I have seen on a footie forum for a long time, way to go Paul. Maybe it is because the last two years have seen many fans stretched to the extremes of their emotions that they have posted unbalanced valuations of where we were at and where we were going but the fact is, Liverpool fans, the most patient in the land, have been very close to losing it due to their expectations and hopes being so painfully shattered a few times too many.

Rafa is not the messiah, he is a proven successful manager who has been brought in because he knows what to do and how to do it. I was a big fan of Msr Houllier but sadly felt by the end that he was halfway to a Rafa: he also knew what to do but had run out of ideas of how to do it. Probably the worst part of all was that the players themselves clearly thought Gerard had run out of ideas and the man they had looked to for inspiration and motivation seemed lacking in both departments himself.

I don't care what others may so, I will always be grateful to Gerard Houllier for what he did at the club, setting the side back on the road forwards rather than towards oblivion. Unprofessional Spice Boys gave way to Very professional attitudes from everyone at the club. No trophies for years gave way to several in 18 months including that glorious 5 mins at the end of 85 minutes of being shown how to play football by Arsenal where Owen did the best of what Owen did in his years with us.

But two years of non-entity football have left us with half a squad of nowhere-near-good-enoughs and, to make things much worse, a manager who still claimed on national TV that they were the next Zidane's, Figo's and Ronaldo's instead of recognising that he had a 16 million dollar man on his hands that wasn't good enough for the Premiership let alone for a team wanting to win it!

Rafa Beintez is a man of knowledge and experience and who demands respect from all simply because of who he is and what he has done. he doesn't shout his mouth off, he doesn't get drawn into slanging matches and he doesn't let players rule the roost. He is, as is very evident, the Boss. No arguments, no attempts to defy, just a clear ability to BE without having to SAY he is the one to be obeyed.

With a professional like him bringing in professionals like he has replacing professionals who were not good enough and playing alongside professionals who are, we have a real chance for the first time in a long time of being seen to be a major threat and a major challenger for titles.

it WILL take time, forget titles this season but expect major improvement. Bolton is not the end of the season, it is a warning not to expect too much and not to take defeat as though it didn't matter. Somewhere in between lies the story of this season but the future is very definitely rosy RED!

cheers,
Rob 'The Red' Barron

Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: Rafael Benitez: Early Progress Report
« Reply #26 on: September 9, 2004, 05:38:02 pm »
Cheers, Rob. Always nice to read a well-thought-out reply to an article. As I've said many times, we owe Houllier a lot; but ultimately he fell short in that quest for a more 'meaningful' trophy. And we were getting further away, not closer. He left a lot of talent, but plenty of dead-wood, too.

To me, Rafa has the air of someone who has won major trophies, having twice won the best league in the world in the previous three years; whereas Houllier won the 'easier' French league just once, in 1986, and while contributing to the French World Cup win, he didn't pick the side or dictate the tactics. His tenure as national boss was a distinct failure.

Houllier worked wonders behind the scenes at Liverpool, but Rafa - to me - looks a better manager of a team, and a stronger leader of men. Time will tell...

LadyR

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Re: Rafael Benitez: Early Progress Report
« Reply #27 on: September 9, 2004, 06:57:32 pm »
That was a very well written and balanced argument.  The team is in a period of transition and we have to get behind both the team and the manager.  The realistic targets for this season should be to close the gap on the top 3.  30 points behind tells it's own story.  Next season will be the one where we should expect to
be seriously challenging for the title.  Remember, Rome wasn't built in a day.

 ;)

Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: Rafael Benitez: Early Progress Report
« Reply #28 on: September 9, 2004, 07:12:30 pm »
Remember, Rome wasn't built in a day.



No, but some fools think Rome was built in a day and a half...    :butt

Nice to see people being patient - maybe now everyone has calmed down after the Bolton defeat, expectations are more realistic.

Offline enoder

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Re: Rafael Benitez: Early Progress Report
« Reply #29 on: September 9, 2004, 08:42:55 pm »
Nice read Paul,

Only problem is we've had this sort of fresh start quite recently. The above article could have been written about GH and his challenges. Don't want to look at this like a manic depressive, but the highs and lows of the last couple of seasons have tainted my view on what really constitutes a real change for the better. RB cannot assure us of a sustained PL challenge this year, although we are all thinking in the backs of our minds that he can pull the rabbit out of the hat.  The only thing that I hope to see is the building blocks are put in place, which GH did quite well, although towards the end it all got de-railed. Which is my greatest fear going forward, another 4-5 years building and nothing comes of it, where do we go from there ? RB will place his faith in his key players as did GH, I only hope that they can repay it. The ultimate irony in all this , is the fact that we ( the fans) suffer the most when things go wrong.

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Re: Rafael Benitez: Early Progress Report
« Reply #30 on: September 9, 2004, 09:16:08 pm »
   :-\   Good point in asking for patience with the new foreign player's, not being familiar with the premiership, so why could we not show a little more patience with Diouf, surely he has to be better than he has shown, i cant believe Houlier would pay that amount for such a mediocre (as he showed us) player.

                great site this
                  
                     James

Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: Rafael Benitez: Early Progress Report
« Reply #31 on: September 9, 2004, 10:38:04 pm »
  :-\   Good point in asking for patience with the new foreign player's, not being familiar with the premiership, so why could we not show a little more patience with Diouf, surely he has to be better than he has shown, i cant believe Houlier would pay that amount for such a mediocre (as he showed us) player.

                great site this
                  
                     James


Well, Diouf did pay 70-odd game games for Liverpool. Personally, he had his chance, but more importantly he let his teammates down with his antics off the pitch. If he had as much to offer as some people thought, Rafa would have taken him on, and he wouldn't be at Bolton now. No loss there - he's talented, but flawed and has a poor attitude.

Glad you like the site - feel free to join up full time.

Offline Mighty_Red

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Re: Rafael Benitez: Early Progress Report
« Reply #32 on: September 10, 2004, 12:18:33 am »
Great Post Paul, looks like all that time on the couch was put to good use  :wave

hope your backs better mate, and dont forget to ask the ladies for assistance ;D
Some clubs were always destined for greatness...

Ngozi

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Re: Rafael Benitez: Early Progress Report
« Reply #33 on: September 10, 2004, 10:20:54 am »
They better excercise patience, thats the only way any one can possibly get the best out of any player

Offline Barley

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Re: Rafael Benitez: Early Progress Report
« Reply #34 on: September 10, 2004, 01:08:25 pm »
Great article Paul,

Honest appraisal of where we are, and where we are heading. Brimming with confidence me, for the first time in a LONG, LONG TIME. Not for a second do I believe we'll do a Lazarus this year and stun the world, nor even do I think we'll be a short odds bet next year, but for all that caution, I still feel that we're on the right track, which brings me nicely to your F1 analogy. Spot on.

And thinking about it further, I would liken the team we saw against Bolton to the pit crew of a newly formed racing team. Each engineer, mechanic and technician, years of experience, good at what they do, but hardly ever have they ALL done a pit-stop together. Some have worked together at a previous team, but almost half the crew have 12 pit-stops IN TOTAL completed between them in this new team, so how will they fare? Can they be expected to seamlessly integrate into a smooth flowing outfit similar to the Ferrari boys?

Look at v Bolton.

Alonso - debut
Garcia - debut
Josemi - 4 Games
Cisse - 4 Games + 1 as sub
Warnock - Full Debut + 4 as sub

If I continue with the F1 analogy, a raw pit-stop team may perhaps be only 0.5 seconds off the pace for a pit-stop, but given the fine line between success and failure at the top level of any competitive sport, that 0.5 seconds could equate to the difference between 1st, and 4th, 8th, or even lower. Similarily against Bolton, we weren't that far away from doing them over, there were times when we looked every bit the rookie team we are, but there were also times when it looked like this machine has the potential to really motor.

As you said, the overhaul is done for the most part, all that remains to do now is tweak, test, tweak, test, until such time as familiarity with each other, the manager and most importantly, the system, becomes second nature. Only then will we be in a position to even assess the position we're in, and that will take at least one season IMO.

On top of all that, our talismanic captain et al, familiar to the point of telepathy with Owen, and to a lesser extent Heskey, now have to learn the running strengths and weaknesses of our entire strikeforce, two of which were no more than bit part extras in the previous season, and Cisse, a raw talent for sure, but a talent which I feel will one day truly terrorise even the tightest outfits. He actually reminds me of a young Mr. Collymore in terms of style and ability. And ability was never a weak point with Stan...

YNWA
                       That's not your knee, that's Liverpools knee.                 

Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: Rafael Benitez: Early Progress Report
« Reply #35 on: September 10, 2004, 01:19:37 pm »
Cheers, Barley. Thanks for finishing my F1 analogy so expertly. Next time, I'll start the articles and leave blanks for you to finish them!  ;D

Offline Barley

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Re: Rafael Benitez: Early Progress Report
« Reply #36 on: September 10, 2004, 01:29:10 pm »
 :thumbup

 ;D
                       That's not your knee, that's Liverpools knee.                 

Offline Swoop

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Re: Rafael Benitez: Early Progress Report
« Reply #37 on: September 10, 2004, 01:59:22 pm »
Great post  ;D

Just wish some of the morons who decided to boo at the Graz game would think before they reached for their mobiles and started speed dialing 5 Live etc
Its a dogs life for me

Offline Ray Davies

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Re: Rafael Benitez: Early Progress Report
« Reply #38 on: September 10, 2004, 03:18:51 pm »
Hello Paul,

I really enjoy your articles, as i said bedore, because it's both relevat, well-informed and well-written (even for the OOC I am).

I really appreciate that you always look at the brigh side of the team, and still you can make a point about it, it's not blind confidence ....

I' m a bit worried about CIssé though, he doesn't look that happy in this team so far, and I really wonder whether he can play with Baros ....

So, still no plan to write a book ?
YNWA

Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: Rafael Benitez: Early Progress Report
« Reply #39 on: September 10, 2004, 03:27:36 pm »
Cheers, Ray (not *the* Ray Davies, I take it?  ;D  )

I'm not sure Cisse and Baros can play together, but working in training will help improve it. Will it be enough? Hard to say.

I try to look on the bright side, but I'll criticise what I don't like. If we're still playing like this in two years' time, I'll be far less forgiving. Thankfully, we won't be.

As for the book, not really possible while I'm ill. Nice to know I could sell at least one copy, though!  ;D