Topic: FT: Liverpool 1 vs Palace 2 (Phil 23' Benteke 42' 73')

[Trendisnotdestiny]

Going back to the game you can forgive Lovren for that first error but the second error that led to that corner? Ridiculous defending.

Errors usually begets more errors --- they are contagious.  He is not alone. 

[jillcwhomever]

Today was not our defense.

We scored first, bossed the game and found very little other than a free kick to disturb CP.  At some point, they realize they can win and go for it...  (even in small doses like Allardyce does). 

Make no mistake, this game was lost in the middle and offensive thirds --- we had no ideas that worked and were content swinging the ball around the pitch like we owned it... to find out only later we were renting the lead.  No answers after the game changed as well.

This was another episode in how to lose to a parked bus.  We have seen this movie before.  But to locate blame with Lovren or Clyne without mentioning how poor we were in the middle and flanks of the attacking third today is borderline criminal.

Lovren was poor, but how many on the team showed brightly?  Coutinho for brief bouts?

Well we will have Lallana back at least for the next game, which should help us create more chances. The player we are missing though is Mane. Sadly we have no player who can replace him.

[killer-heels]

Errors usually begets more errors --- they are contagious.  He is not alone. 

He is good for an error to be fair. People have gone over the top with praise for him recently. He has been a poor signing for us.

[him_15]

I havent seen it again, was it the one where  Lovren ducked into the Townsend challenge?

In any event we need to defend the corner better. Pathetic.

When the opponent has a corner they always look like to score a goal. When we have a corner we never look like to score a goal. Something is seriously wrong with our corner and corner defending, and it has been the issue for many many years!

[SerbianScouser]

FWIW Palace won 19 pts last 8 games. It's an incredible form and they've got a couple of very decent players.

Luckily the form of 4 teams we're left to play against is nowhere near that level.

[Chakan]

FWIW Palace won 19 pts last 8 games. It's an incredible form and they've got a couple of very decent players.

Luckily the form of 4 teams we're left to play against is nowhere near that level.

We make bad teams look good.

[Jake]

This is not the only post claiming that Milner as a LB is some sort of calamity, either. Hard to see what this is based on, given that he is still statistically one of the best left backs in the Premier League this year, and in January was ranked as the second best LB in Europe.

You can prove anything with statistics, 8/10 RAWKites would agree.

I've seen attacks break down most games because Milner isn't suited to playing on the left. He should be on the right if he is playing.

He's a square peg in a quadrilateral hole. If you squish it a bit, it does fit, but it'll pop out and a square would be better.

[SingFongFC]

Never, it was him making a show along with the goal celebration. It's that lack of self awareness why Sakho was chucked out the squad in the first place.

So, so disappointed at him today. I'm one of his biggest fans (or was, before today) and have defended him throughout all the issues he's had over the past year. I now feel pretty foolish at doing that to be honest.

Honestly just want him gone ASAP after that, no need. No need to be on the bench when he wasn't involved in their team, and definitely no need to be showing such disrespect.

There was thousands in that ground today who loved him. Way more than they did Benteke, who at least had the decency to not celebrate at the Kop end. Then Sakho turns round and does that?? 

[Trendisnotdestiny]

He is good for an error to be fair. People have gone over the top with praise for him recently. He has been a poor signing for us.

I think of him as a blunt instrument.

If we have a leggy mobile attack dog in front of him who can cover ground, and a partner who can read the play and not get caught, then he is usually fine.   

However, when we ask him to do more than be a blunt instrument, this is where he runs out of ideas and looks foolish.  It is a part of the function of the whole and simultaneously an individual flaw (which means he gets too much support when things go well, and too little when they fall apart - or he screws the pooch.).

sorry to canines everywhere

[Kopenhagen]

I fear you are correct and it riles me. We fucked about for so long, that we can't get a look in if we are competing against another decent outfit. We've basically got to be the only team after said player to sign them. When was the last time we locked horns with a big club over a player and came out on top?

Bayern wanted Matip & for Can to re-sign. I think United wanted Firmino.

[Trendisnotdestiny]

We make bad teams look good.

And Vice Versa

How prescient was our pre-season

Beat Barcelona 4-0
Lose Mainz 0-4

[Trendisnotdestiny]

You can prove anything with statistics, 8/10 RAWKites would agree.

I've seen attacks break down most games because Milner isn't suited to playing on the left. He should be on the right if he is playing.

He's a square peg in a quadrilateral hole. If you squish it a bit, it does fit, but it'll pop out and a square would be better.

I'd rather have my best XI on the pitch playing their hearts out than less experienced players trying not to fuck up (Moreno).

[Jake]

I'd rather have my best XI on the pitch playing their hearts out than less experienced players trying not to fuck up (Moreno).

Against the dross that we usually struggle against, where we have 70% possession I'd go with Moreno, cos we need pace and a decent left foot down there to break down the bus. But otherwise yeah I'd go with Milner.

The problem is we should go with an actual left back who isn't as useless as a bottled fart.

[jckliew]

Kopp does not know how to play against the parked bus.

[Mozology]

It's one of those results that get's better or worse with the following result, if we beat Watford then we've gained 9 from our last 12. That's title winning form, fail to beat Watford and that's 6 or 7 outta 12, not even top 4 form.

TBF we've been doing that a lot this season, getting a sickening result but following it up with one or two unexpected wins. In a normal season our points tally would be guaranteed top 4, top 3 in fact, it's just a weird, weird, season, one were 73 maybe even 74 points might not be enough, that's why we're all on edge.

[SerbianScouser]

Kopp does not know how to play against the parked bus.

Put Mane and Lallana in his team today and you wouldn't go on to talk rubbish on the forum after game.

[Chakan]

Kopp does not know how to play against the parked bus.

Don't think it's so much a parked bus but morenour sefenders being brainless tits

[thelinnen]

That seemed to me, a team that realised they weren't going to win the game as soon as Benteke scored.

As did the crowd.

There's an air of inevitability about games like this.

Probably because the excruciatingly slow teeth-pulling football that had been on show up to that point set the tone for the match. Was like a Brendan Rodgers team post-Suarez going forward, it shouldn't be alright that we look so bereft of ideas because Mane is out. If that's the case next season then we'll just be waiting until he gets crocked before the wheels come off.

At the other end we could all see the danger coming from fucking miles away, well everyone except the manager and the players. Three games in a row they've done us now in exactly the same manner. We scored first in each of them before going behind.

If we start next season with Lovren and Milner on the left side of defense I'm not watching us, simple as that. If they've not been benched by better players then we'll be miles off winning the league before a ball is kicked. I can't keep watching the same things happen over and over and over with not a trophy in sight. It's a soul destroying experience for a club with such expectations.

[Day1983]

Our defence again. Where are the posters who were saying matip and lovren together are sound. They are average. Actually lovren is useless matip not so much but he isn't great.

[Mozology]

Kopp does not know how to play against the parked bus.

He actually doesn't have a problem breaking down teams who park the bus, his problem is keeping clean sheets against them, so we need 2 often 3 goals to win a game.

[Jake]

He actually doesn't have a problem breaking down teams who park the bus, his problem is keeping clean sheets against them, so we need 2 often 3 goals to win a game.

Yep.

1-0 vs Palace - should be doable

2-0 or even 2-1 vs Swansea - should be doable

2-0 or even 2-1 vs Bournemouth - should be doable

2-0 or even 2-1 vs West Ham - should be doable

Just the home games vs dross we've fucked up in. But I suppose that's only 4 out of 12 "easy" home games we've dropped points in. 25%.

[norecat]

Love him or loath him Allardyce, when not being greedy  , is well able to get teams out of a hole. Our Achilles heel came back to bite us yet again. It's not all doom and gloom. Very important though that Klopp, via transfer market, address weaknesses defensively. Otherwise we face Groundhog Day for the foreseeable future.

[GreatEx]

I love this club, but I think we have to be realistic with our expections, we cant compete with the money of the Manchester clubs, chelsea's billions and especially City and Chelsea once they get the right balance in there playing staff there going to be devastating, Manchester Utd will continue to pump 200 odd million into there squad till it works. We wont do a Leicester because to many teams up there game against us. Evident again today we are very one dimensional against the lower positioned teams , its a simple formula against us set back cover the gaps and counter attack, we dont score from corners and we dont pose an aerial threat.

While it is obviously not an even field, I don't buy the excuse that we can't possibly compete for titles. The name "Tottenhom Hotspur" is conspicuously absent from your reasoning.

[Mozology]

We've played 34 league games, kept only EIGHT clean sheets, that we're still even in contention for top 4 belies the notion that we can't break down teams that park the bus.

We should be mid table with those defensive stats, it's our attacking play that's kept us so high up the table for so much of this season.

[Trendisnotdestiny]

Against the dross that we usually struggle against, where we have 70% possession I'd go with Moreno, cos we need pace and a decent left foot down there to break down the bus. But otherwise yeah I'd go with Milner.

The problem is we should go with an actual left back who isn't as useless as a bottled fart.

Milner is better than Moreno...

If you study the games where Moreno started in the last 2 1/2 years, we have allowed more goals down the left side or due to an individual error on his part than during any other player at that position over the last 5-7 years (including Flanagan, Aurelio, Enrique, Cissokho, Brad Smith, Agger or Glen Johnson/Clyne switching from RB).

Milner has been much better, and we do not leak goals from the left side as before.

Now, you have a point, we do need more options, but this anti Milner bias seems adrift (as most games, he manages the spaces on the sidelines deftly - a few poor performances but for the most part you know what you are going to get.... --- with Moreno it might be Spurs coast to coast bender or a two footed tackle lunge in the box).   

We do not need a Forest Gump left back....  would prefer a better box of chocolates but will stick with sweet ole Millie

[Trendisnotdestiny]

Probably because the excruciatingly slow teeth-pulling football that had been on show up to that point set the tone for the match. Was like a Brendan Rodgers team post-Suarez going forward, it shouldn't be alright that we look so bereft of ideas because Mane is out. If that's the case next season then we'll just be waiting until he gets crocked before the wheels come off.

At the other end we could all see the danger coming from fucking miles away, well everyone except the manager and the players. Three games in a row they've done us now in exactly the same manner. We scored first in each of them before going behind.

If we start next season with Lovren and Milner on the left side of defense I'm not watching us, simple as that. If they've not been benched by better players then we'll be miles off winning the league before a ball is kicked. I can't keep watching the same things happen over and over and over with not a trophy in sight. It's a soul destroying experience for a club with such expectations.

That's your choice...

[Something Worse]

Lovren always seems like he'll do something stupid. I really hoped he'd turned it around under Klopp but he feels like the nerves of our whole team. If he's not panicking, everyone else is because he's on the field. It's unsustainable. We also need a definite cutting edge up front. Origi isn't that, yet, so we need someone ready to go. Who that is I have no idea.

I try not to post right after a loss because it doesn't really help anyone to argue over how shit FSG/Klopp/Lovren/the refs whoever we're blaming is, but I think this summer is crucial. Klopp has had a full season, there's clear weaknesses for him to address. We need to go all out to give him the best tools possible.

[Trendisnotdestiny]

Yep.

1-0 vs Palace - should be doable

2-0 or even 2-1 vs Swansea - should be doable

2-0 or even 2-1 vs Bournemouth - should be doable

2-0 or even 2-1 vs West Ham - should be doable

Just the home games vs dross we've fucked up in. But I suppose that's only 4 out of 12 "easy" home games we've dropped points in. 25%.

This is the sad truth here....  Not much of "adult" football being played after the first goals are scored.  This goes at the heart of what I admire and simultaneously hate about the plastics ---- usually they get a lead and they stomp on the throat of their opponent so as both to send a message of future scores but also of giving up nothing done their spine.   

I think this is what is meant when RAWKites and pundits talk about the weakness in Liverpool's defense --- we have no personality who sorts out the other side ---- Not today, not on my watch, not fucking ever.....

And in the system we play, I'm not sure its ever going to be one or two players who resemble this like in Carra's day ---  in our system it is going to have to be more than this (which is why an N'Golo Kante type player is so important) --- they might be able to reduce overall risk by 25-30% --- huge.

Lucas Leiva or even Jordan Henderson is not in this class of player --- can Hendo?  I hope so, but I suspect this a long term goal with Keita being marked as a possibility.

[jckliew]

Don't think it's so much a parked bus but morenour sefenders being brainless tits

Our front line did not do much in open play at all. Says a lot about our 2nd stringers.

[Chakan]

Our front line did not do much in open play at all. Says a lot about our 2nd stringers.

We're the highest scoring team in the league, so that puts that argument to bed. Our problem isn't scoring it's our leaky brainless deadweight defenders.

[kkhaku]

It's really quite simple - either we fix the leaky ship or we don't make the next step up to a top 4 team.

Can't blame the injuries for the defensive mess this season and last. Not so sure it's about personnel either - always someone different making a mistake. Klopp simply hasn't figured out how to successfully manage the concession of goals in this league yet. Until he does that, at least to a similar level as teams around us - we'll struggle.

[Day1983]

It's really quite simple - either we fix the leaky ship or we don't make the next step up to a top 4 team.

Can't blame the injuries for the defensive mess this season and last. Not so sure it's about personnel either - always someone different making a mistake. Klopp simply hasn't figured out how to successfully manage the concession of goals in this league yet. Until he does that, at least to a similar level as teams around us - we'll struggle.

Definitely klopp has to take the blame for this.

[jckliew]

We're the highest scoring team in the league, so that puts that argument to bed. Our problem isn't scoring it's our leaky brainless deadweight defenders.

Not against parked buses.

[diegoLFC7]

This squad is so thin. Were fighting for fourth down by one and we bring on Trent, Grujic, and Moreno. We are the only team in the league that doesnt have quality in the bench. We need at least 10-12 signings in the summer, to be able to cope with europe, either champions or europa league. If we dont get bulk signings well fatigue out during the christmas period.

[Day1983]

This squad is so thin. Were fighting for fourth down by one and we bring on Trent, Grujic, and Moreno. We are the only team in the league that doesnt have quality in the bench. We need at least 10-12 signings in the summer, to be able to cope with europe, either champions or europa league. If we dont get bulk signings well fatigue out during the christmas period.

So why did we go into the season so light?

[jckliew]

So why did we go into the season so light?

Ask the management.

[thelinnen]

That's your choice...

It's either that or I'll end up calling them every name under the sun every time Lovren gets shrugged off the ball or Milner slows the game to a crawl by controlling the ball down the left side like he's handling a proximity mine followed by an overhit through ball.

[Day1983]

Ask the management.

So klopp or FSG? Whoever it was has made a big mistake. With no Europe we should have been doing better in my opinion.

[jckliew]

So klopp or FSG? Whoever it was has made a big mistake. With no Europe we should have been doing better in my opinion.

IMO they did not expect this season to be a breakout season.  Did not expect Klopp to do so well.
Therefore the smaller squad.
But many has been predicting injuries due to our pressing game.
Here we are having a baby bench at the end of season.

[Trendisnotdestiny]

We're the highest scoring team in the league, so that puts that argument to bed. Our problem isn't scoring it's our leaky brainless deadweight defenders.

How many opportunities did we create today?   

How many do we usually create, on average?

How many do we create in our losses?  (@ Bournemouth being the most likely exception).

Highest scoring is only one indicator (inflated by 6-1 Watford or 4-1 Leicester etc...)

How many goals do we score in defeats?

  -  @ Burnley (0) LOSS
  -  @ Bournemouth (3) LOSS
  -  Bournemouth (1) DRAW
  -  West Ham (2) DRAW
  - @ Sunderland (2)  DRAW
  -  Swansea (2) LOSS
  -  @Hull City (0) LOSS
  -  @ Leicester (1) LOSS
  - Crystal Palace (1) LOSS

6 Losses
3 Draws

In the 6 losses, Swansea and Bournemouth are probably the two games where we had the longest run of play and the most opportunities (although, I do not have the stats).   In the others, we scored 2 goals in 4 games.  This could be an issue with our attacking play either with entry, support, width, combination or continuity.   If we got 2 goals in most games we got a result.  The issue came when scored an early first goal and forgot how to manage the game from there.

In our three draws listed above where we had the game in our hands, we conceded late goals.  Not sure if anyone has done this, but if we look at our restart goals allowed, I'm sure this has had a big influence on these nine games.  Losing this battle should not be about squad depth or Champions League footy, but desire.

Now, being the top scoring team in the league (other than a game or two) seems irrelevant.  How many opportunities did we get and how did we take them is a better question. 
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